View Full Version : [3.5 Base Class] Netherhost (PEACH)

2011-07-04, 06:27 PM
The Netherhost
Jarex's Netherbeast around him

“Next time somebody says to me that "true power comes from within", I swear I'll demonstrate just what is the nature of the power within.”Jarex, a Netherhost.

Many are those who tap into external power sources to empower themselves, be it clerics and paladins with their gods, druids who connect to the elements, and warlocks who sign pacts with powerful outsiders.

One thing is common. the deal is a willing one. for a Netherhost however, it is not.

A Netherhost is an unfortunate individual who has a Netherbeast dwelling inside him, forever trying to lay claim to his body, corrupt his soul and shatter his mind. the silver lining of this dark, dark cloud is that the Netherbeast depends on it's host for survival, and as such protects him from harm, and allows him to tap to the power to destroy his enemies, because each link not only helps the survival of the host, it also brings closer the region of the beast.

Abilities: A balance of Charisma and Wisdom is a very important to a Netherhost, as Wisdom allows them to hold the beast or regain control over it, while Charisma on the other hand makes them stronger, but the beast harder to control. as a melee-oriented class Strength and Constitution are always good to have.

Role: A Netherhost act as as two separate roles, while the host is mostly a sentinel, keeping watch, judging what you face, and providing with tactical attacks in times of need, in addition of being a skilled conservationist the beast on the other hand is a pure force of destruction, and not always one that can be controlled, contained or even rationalized with.

Background: A Netherhost can be anyone, nobody has ever managed to figure a way to tell them apart from anyone else until the Netherbeast manifest for the first time.
For most Netherhost, the beast will manifest for the very first time in a time of great stress, a time when the host is in either physical danger or a very vulnerable emotional situation, at that point the beast bursts out of him, taking over and going into rampage as it always does, eliminating the source of danger or stress, and if the host is not quick to regain control then everyone else nearby as well. this violent awakening often leads the host to be hunted or killed, and as such his is usually forced to leave his old life behind, starting a new life of exile.

The origin of the beast itself is highly questionable, no one is absolutely sure where they came from, and what purpose they have, however it was noticed on multiple occasions that they appear as the nightmares of various deities and demigods, way too often for it to be a mere coincidence.

Organization: None. a Netherhost mostly goes about hiding his true nature, revealing it only to his closest friends and allies, and even then he is likely to not tell the entire truth. as such it is very hard to find Netherhosts, not to mention gather them. in addition, as each beast is very different and has its own motives, whatever they may be, and the hatred of many hosts and beasts to each others leads to that the hosts and beast alike rather avoid one another, saving themselves the trouble of having another walking disaster other then themselves around.

Alignment: Most hosts tend to be the direct opposite of the beast, and the beast can only be evil (and this cannot be changed not even by divine interference) however, a host could even be as evil as the beast itself, unleashing it without regards of consequences.

Races: Netherhosts are almost always human, from reasons unknown. however a Netherhost or two has been recorded (even if the record does not realize what he has witnessed) among nearly every sentient species, even ones who you would not expect to be possible to be possessed by such power, such as outsiders and constructs.

Religion: Netherhosts tend to reject religion, mostly influenced by the beast's open disregard and insult of the divine and how it never hurts it, however in some cases the host might turn to religion in hope that the beast laughs at the divine because it actually fears it, therefor the host seeks help and comfort in it.

Other Classes: Netherhost often have some resentment for classes that gain power from another force (such as clerics, druids and warlcoks). as they cannot understand how can one willingly make such pacts, not always realizing just how different it is from his own connection. Netherhost tend to be more at ease around those who rely on their own tools such as barbarians, rogues, fighters and especially monks who understand the value of a calm mind, and a strong spirit. however, a Netherhost only truly accepts thoes who have a source of power they had no choice whether to have it or not, such as sorcerers.

Adaptation: As a class designed to be slightly mysterious even to the ones who play it, it require no adaptation at all. in fact it works best when it is slightly alien and put-of place.

Hit Die: D10.

Class Features
Class Skills: The Netherhost’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are as follows: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha) Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str) Taunt (Cha) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7613406&postcount=15), Jump (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skill Points Per Level After First: 6 + Intelligence Modifier

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Host Ability|Beast BAB|Beast Ability

+2|Inner Beast, Separate Minds|+1|Augmented Physics, Nether Strikes

+3|Willing Submission|+2|-

+3|-|+3|Nether Health

+4|-|+4|Nether Power

+4|-|+5|Nether Body

+5|Protective Transformation|+6/+1|-

+5|-|+7/+2|Nether Aura

+6|-|+8/+3|Nether Power

+6|Augmentation Overflow|+9/+4|-

+7|-|+10/+5|Nether Body

+7|-|+11/+6/+1|Improved Augmented Physics

+8|-|+12/+7/+2|Nether Power

+8|Full Transformation|+13/+8/+3|-

+9|-|+14/+9/+4|Will of the Netherbeast

+9|-|+15/+10/+5|Nether Body

+10|-|+16/+11/+6/+1|Nether Power

+10|Symbiotic Health|+17/+12/+7/+2|-

+11|Augmentation Overflow|+18/+13/+8/+3|-

+11|-|+19/+14/+9/+4|Greater Augmented Physics

+12|Safe Transformation|+20/+15/+10/+5|Nether Body, Nether Power[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Netherhost are proficient with all simple weapons, one martial weapon of their choice, and light armor.

Inner Beast
The definition of a Netherhost is a man who hosts a Netherbeast who's power he can tap. the host may, at will, as a free action tap to that power and hold onto it until the link is broken, becoming a hybrid between himself and the beast, gaining its abilities (except where noted he does not, or gains hybrid ability instead)

In order to brake the link in hybrid mode he must spend a move action to concentrate on mentally severing the link, this will provoke attack of opportunity, and he must make a Concentration check if he takes damage with a DC equal to damage taken or he fails to severe the link.

However, each round that the host is connected in this way to the beast he must make a will save, with the DC equal to the number of rounds this link is sustained, plus the number of links before it this day, plus the beast's charisma modifier (normally greater then the host's by 1 or 2, see separate minds and will of the netherbeast.) or loose control, making the beast take full control (with the full extend of it's power)

Once the beast takes control it will keep it until the host will succeed on his Will save, at that point the link will be instantly severed, restoring the host to his normal form. each round the beast remains in control the link is considered to have lasted one round less (minimum 0 rounds, for a DC of number of links+charisma modifier)

While the beast is in control it will act with full violence and openly attempt to slay anyone it can find (prioritizing life threats first, control threats later, and everyone else last) it will not use any tools, manufactured weapons or magic other then its own, but will use natural weapons even if they came from another source (racial, other class etc...)
The beast however have a strong sense of preservation and will retreat from combat if necessary, or even relinquish control if it believes it will save the life of the host to do so.

The appearance of the beast is that of an aura engulfing the host, but it differs from one to another. it can be like energy surrounding him, or an actual body partially covering the host, the hybrid version always look more "normal", while the true beast form is further away from host form. (Jarex's beast in the picture for example takes the form of solidified "avatar" of energy that despite bing much bigger stands at the very same place, moving the same, yet not hiding Jarex himself.)

The number of links is reduced by 1 for each hour of rest, or completely reset after an 8 hour rest regardless of how many are left.

Separate Minds (Ex)
The host and the beast are two independent minds, and as such what affects one does not necessarily effects another.

As such, any type of ability damage or drain to wisdom, intelligence or charisma effects only the currently active form, and any mind-effecting spell or ability work similarly (so charming one has no effect on the other .)

While on hybrid form it is considered that the host's mind is the active one, and therefor he takes the damage, drain or enchantment.

Also, the beast's force of personality is always slightly stronger then the host's, and as such it has a Charisma score greater by 2.

Augmented Physics (Ex)
The body of the Netherbeast is far more powerful then a mortal of the same body, choose either Strength, Constitution on Dexterity, the beast has a +6 augmention bonus to that ability and +4 to the other two.

The bonus for the hybrid form is half that of the beast itself.

Nether Strikes (Ex)
The Netherbeast's body is slightly different then its host, and has more violent outlook and physiology. while in beast form, two of the host's appendages (arms or otherwise) become either sharpened or overly muscular giving him either Claw attack or Slam attacks (it is possible to gain one of each) dealing 1d6 damage of the appropriate types.
If that appendage already provides a natural attack instead improve it's damage dice by one step, as if the creature is one size bigger.
Whether creating new natural attacks or increasing existing ones, these attacks gain a bonus to damage based on Charisma, in addition to that of Strength (but not on attack rolls.)

Willing Submission (Ex)
Netherhosts are quick to learn the advantages of the beast in combat over them, and know when they need that extra power that the hybrid form cannot supply.
Starting at second level, a Netherhost may jump right into the beast form in the same manner he assume hybrid form. if you use this method to the DC is considered as if a link lasting 5 rounds has occurred prior to that. (or an additional 5 rounds if you already spent some time in hybrid form)

Nether Health (Ex)
Starting at third level, the Netherbeast can use its own separate source of life except that of the host, this grants it a "storage" of hit points equal to Netherhost level × the beast's Charisma modifier.
These hit points however are not actual part of the host, only the beast's and as such is only damaged while in beast form. the storage is the first source of hit point to be lost if the beast takes damage or healed if he receives healing, also it heals naturally in a rate of 1 for round, even while the beast is inactive. (so if a beast has a storage of 12, and took 15 damage, the entire storage will deplete and the "normal" hit points will take 3 damage, who will not be healed.)

In addition, the Netherbeast's mind become strong, it gains a +4 bonus to saves against any nauseous effect, fear effect of compulsion effect.

The hybrid form does not gain this ability.

Nether Power (Su)
At 4th level, and every four levels afterwords choose one of the following powers, the save DC of those power (when appropriate) is 15+Charisma modifier for the beast form, and 10+Charisma modifier for the hybrid form.

Draining Strikes the natural attacks of the Netherbeast (gained/improved from Nether Stirkes or Nether Body) heal the Netherbeast for half the damage dealt, rounded down, when they deal lethal damage to living creatures.

Nether Blast By releasing a burst of force you create a line attack out to 60 ft. dealing 1d6 damage per point of charisma modifier to all within, reflex save for half damage.

Nether Step As a move action you may dematerialize and momentarily later re-materialize in another point within 5 ft. per point of charisma modifier, without actually going throw the space in between.

Fade to Nether As a move action you may turn invisible for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma Modifier. if you attack, cast a spell or use a spell like ability or activated supernatural ability other then the ones granted by Nether Power that deal no damage the invisibility will brake.

Breath of ShadowYou breath out an unnatural darkness, covering the area around yourself in an effect equal to that of a Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) spell, radiating 20 ft. to every direction, the darkness lasts for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier, and will remain in place even if you move.

Dispel Magic as the spell, except it can only be used as targeted dispel and it's range is touch, use your charisma modifier for your caster level.

Knock as the spell, except it's range is touch.

Aura Burst requires Nether Aura, as a full round action you may focus yourself into powering the aura, doubling it's range.

Nether Leak A haze of pure nether leaks from your body, covering you in a thin protective layer. Any weapon that touches it takes 1d6 points of magic damage from it, and the weapon’s hardness does not reduce this damage. A magic weapon may attempt Reflex save to avoid taking this damage. A creature who strikes you with an unarmed attack, unarmed strike, touch spell, or natural weapon takes this damage as well but can negate the damage with a Reflex save.

Time Distort allows you to use Haste or Slow as spell-like abilities, except their range is touch, use your charisma modifier instead for your caster level.

Nether Body (Ex)
At fifth level, and every five levels afterward the body of the Netherbeast further mutates to fit it's true form, gaining additional power. choose one of the mutations below, the hybrid form does not gain these mutations unless otherwise noted:

Stinger Tail Contradicts with Muscular Tail. Gives the beast a stinger tail that can be used as a natural attack dealing 1d6 piercing damage with a 19-20/x3 critical. add your Charisma modifier to damage.

Poison Sting Requires Stinger Tail. Gives the hybrid form the ability to use the Stinger Tail, also while in beast form the sting also deal 1d3 damage to either strength, dexterity of constitution at random, with no save.

Muscular Tail Contradicts with Stinger Tail. Gives the beast a muscular tail that can be used as a Tail Slam natural attack dealing 2d6 bludgeoning damage with a 20/x2 critical. add your Charisma modifier to damage.

Sweeping Tail Requires Muscular Tail. Gives the hybrid form the ability to use the Muscular Tail, also while in beast form the beast may make a tail sweep attack instead, using the same damage.

Natural Defenses The beast becomes harder to hit, growing some sort of exoskeleton, or maybe simply having it's skin really hard. The beast a bonus to natural armor equal to it's charisma modifier, the hybrid form gains a bonus equal to half the host's charisma modifier.

Empowered Senses The beast's senses sharpen granting it a bonus to spot, listen, search and sense motive checks equal to it's charisma modifier, the hybrid form gains a bonus equal to half the host's charisma modifier.

Nether Senses Requires Empowered Senses. The beast gains senses other then what mortals have, allowing it to see the world around it as it really is, giving it true sight to 60 ft. the hybrid form has true sight to 10 ft.

Regenerative Body Grants the beast Fast Healing equal to his charisma modifier, the hybrid form gains Fast Healing equal to half the host's charisma modifier.

Great Beast The body of the beast is large, but larger the the host containing it. while in beast form you are one size category larger.

Massive Beast The body of the beast is unrealistically large compared to that of the host, while in hybrid form you are one size category larger, and while in beast form you are two size categories larger.

Sprout Wings A pair of wings sprout from the back of the beast, giving it a fly speed of 5 ft. per point of charisma modifier with average maneuverability.

Nether Wing Requires Sprout Wings. The wings of the beast grow larger and stronger, increasing it's speed to 10 ft. per point of charisma modifier, with good maneuverability. the hybrid from can fly at a speed of 5 ft. per point of charisma modifier with average maneuverability

Protective Transformation (Ex)
By the time the Netherhost has reached to sixth level the bond between him and his beast has grown to such extend that the beast attempt to defend it while necessary by taking over, and using it's greater power.

If the host falls victim to a mind-effecting spell or ability that causes him to act in a way that directly or indirectly endangers his life the beast reacts as if a link was made (with save DC increasing every round, but it does not count against the number of links made that day)

In addition, if the host falls below -10 hit point, or hit by a death effect he is instead stable at -10 hit points, and the beast immediately takes over, transforming into full beast form, and sustaining the lives of both host and beast using it's Nether Health, in this state the host cannot take back over, at least not until healed to have an amount of hit points allowing him to live.

Knowing just how vulnerable it is in this state the beast is likely to avoid combat, maybe even surrender or ask for healing from any who might be interested at saving the host.

Nether Aura (Su)
Starting at seventh level the beast begins radiate its essence and power in the form of the following auras to 5 ft. per point of charisma modifier. the save DC to resist the aura (if any) is 15+the beast's charisma modifier

Aura of Fear: At the beginning of each turn of every being inside the aura it must make a will save or be shaken this round. if already shaken it become frightened instead.

Nauseous Aura: At the beginning of each turn of every being inside the aura it must make a fortitude save or be nauseated this round.

Aura of Confusion: At the beginning of each turn of every being inside the aura it must make a will save or be confused this round.

Aura of Fatigue: At the beginning of each turn of every being inside the aura it must make a fortitude save or be fatigued this round.

Augmentation Overflow
The body of the 9th level Netherhost become stronger due to his beast, yet a little less normal, gaining some of the power of the beast itself. he gains a permanent +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics, in addition he gains the benefits of Nether Strikes even at his host form, despite it not being visually obvious.

At 18th level the host gains another +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics.

Improved Augmented Physics (Ex)
At 11th level the body of the beast takes a more extensive form, the bonus to abilities from Augmented Physics rise to +6, and for the chosen ability to +8, and to that extend the ability bonuses for the hybrid form rise to +4 for the chosen and +3 for the others.

Full Transformation (Ex)
At 13th level the host learns how to tank even more power from the beast, using the same method he uses to become the hybrid he may transform himself completely into the beast, yet keeping his own mind in control.
This transformation is extremely straining and allows the beast much more place to work, it counts as if three links have been made simultaneously if you use this ability (so the number of daily links increase by 3, and the number of rounds increase by 3 every round), however braking this link requires only a single concentration as normal, and if the beast takes over while in this state the save decrease at normal speed, not at triple.

Will of the Netherbeast (Ex)
The mind of a 14th level Netherbeast is beyond the power of mortal understanding, it becomes immune to fear, compulsion and nausea. it beast itself also gains a +2 increase to it's charisma.

The hybrid form gains a +4 to saves against fear, compulsion and nausea as the will of the Netherbeast itself can help the host to resist such effects while a link is open.

Using the Full Transformation ability will grant only the hybrid bonus of this ability (in addition to that of Nether Health), as this ability relates to the mind, not the body.

Symbiotic Health (EX)
The 17th level Netherhost begins to tap directly to the beast's lifeforce, as such he has partial access to up to the hit point storage of the beast's Nether Health ability, transferring damage to it as long it if above half if he wants to, the damage can be transferred only at the time of taking it.

Improved Augmented Physics (Ex)
At 19th level the body of the beast form becomes further great and destructive, the bonus to abilities from Augmented Physics rise to +8, and for the chosen ability to +10, and to that extend the ability bonuses for the hybrid form rise to +5 for the chosen and +4 for the others.

Safe Transformation (Ex)
At the 20th level the host learns how to make his Full Transformation safer, effectively making it work as if two links were made, instead of three.

What do you think?
Also, ideas for more Nether Power/Nether Body options are welcomed, I want this class to sprout characters very different from each other.

2011-07-04, 09:39 PM
Were you inspired by this? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167195&highlight=harrowed)
The fluff seems quite similar.
@V: Beat you to it.

2011-07-04, 10:12 PM
Must not comment on how similar it is to the Harrowed, must not comment on how similar it seems to the Harrowed, Must not.....crud.

In all seriousness, though, this seems pretty similar to the Harrowed, and the fluff seems to be pretty much the same.

2011-07-04, 10:49 PM
I enjoy it, I can only comment that the netherbeast should have some more options in terms of body. With the current powers it doesn't quite come off as some fell abomination.

2011-07-05, 12:18 AM
Drynwyn, Pyromancer999: No wonder it looks similar to you, I was inspired halfway by it as how to pull it off. (other half is rich's "Champion" class..) however I must admit that the idea first came from anime (naruto, bleach, D.gray man, etc... all have the main characther have something dwelling inside him that wants to take over, and alters the body when he does so...)

I even copied a sentence in the fluff because it was too perfect not to, and modeled a few others in a similar fashion to Gareth's own because I liked that style...

Unlike the harrowed though the Netherbeast is completely violent, at all times, towards everything, and has no relation to the elements.

So yes, its practically a different take on the same issue. no wonder it is similar. especially when I loved the Harrowed so much...

NosferatuZodd-I know, I did state that I want more ideas for these, if oyu happen to have any.
The current state gives you a rather odd body but nothing quite as odd as I have hoped. nothing is odd anymore in DnD...time to read lords of madness again?

Kuma Kode
2011-07-05, 06:46 PM
Don't hotlink. Not only does it make you a bad netizen, but if the picture you're linking to moves, is deleted, or, worse, changes, the picture in your article will change, too.

Since Wizards appears to be doing some maintenance, your image is now a broken block, which is kind of annoying because you actually reference the picture in your description of the Inner Beast ability.

Try Imgur or Photobucket instead.

2011-07-06, 04:11 AM
I really like the class. Yeah, the concept is so similar to the Harrowed, but I like it though.

Could you explain better the mechanics of the link, and how do you get to Hybrid form and Beast form, because right now is a little bit confusing.

2011-07-06, 08:49 AM
This looks quite interesting. The harrowed was always one of my favorite classes.

2011-07-09, 04:32 PM
You bring good points, I'll try to figure how to create a proper upload of the piture, but I got no proper acssess right now (public computer, cant save the picture and re-upload it right now...) imageshack'ed it. better?

I'll think of a way to simplify the explnation until I find a better internet acssess, the concept it quite easy to follow once you get it, but a bit hard to grasp before seening it in action...for now:

Going "worse"
Getting to hybrid form if you are at normal form is a willing free action, while going to beast form is an unwilling instant effect
At level two you can turn into beast form as a willing free action.
At level 13 you can turn into beast form while keeping control as a willing free action, but the risk of losing control is triple then normal.
At level 20 the risk of usng willing beast form is only double instead of triple.

Getting "Better"
Going to normal mode while in control is move action that requires to maintain concentration.
Going to normal mode while NOT in control is a will save (DC explained in links below) that you make at the beggninng of each round (if you want) that is an instant effect if you manage.

Links and control:
The save DC to maintain\regain control is:
Beast CHA modifer+"Daily Links"+"Link Duration"-"Out of Control Duration"
"Daily Links" is increased by 1 each time you go hybrid, by 3 if you use "Full Transformation" (level 13) and by 2 when you use "Safe Transformation" (level 20)
"Link Duration" increases by 1 each round if using hybrid mode, 3 each round if using "Full Transformation" and 2 each round if using "Safe Transformation" AS LONG YOU ARE IN CONTROL
"Out of Control Duration" increases by 1 each round you are not in control, no matter what method was used to create the link.
Using "Willing Submission" increases the "Daily Links" if a link was not already active when used, and in any case it increases "Link Duration" by 5.

That should be a bit more clear, if more wordy. is it?

2011-07-10, 08:45 AM
Yeah, perfect! :D

2011-07-11, 01:37 PM
So...thats all people has to say?

Am I to be glad or disappointed here? nobody gave a very decicive review either way here except noting the similarities to the harrowed...

Balance comments? ideas for new options for powers? general thoughs? something?

2011-07-11, 02:55 PM
I actually like the class a little more than the harrowed. I feel like the beast and the character are truly separate entities with this class, which is something I really haven't seen accomplished often.

2011-07-11, 05:06 PM
It isn't very clear, and thus i can't work out, what the second clause in Augment Physics means. What bonuses do you gain in hybrid form? Surely it would make more sense to put the hybrid form bonuses there and then put the full transformation ones where they become relevant at level 13?

More later.

What's the pic from, btw?

2011-07-13, 01:21 PM
eftexar-Glad to hear it, thats exsacly what I hoped to accomplish here. now I just need to manage to make PrC's for it that will follow the same lines...(maybe I'll take advantage of the PrC contests to have an excuse for it?)

Mulletmanalive-Because you can still use hybrid form at levels higher then 13, and the best uses it's full potential even at level 1 if it takes over, and as hybrid form is pretty much "As normal, but can use the beast's special abilities to some extend" it makes more sense (in my eyes) to list both normal and beast as seperate thins from the very beggining and leave hybrid to be calculaed by the user, as it differs from each other according to what choices you make.
Or am I wrong here?

As for the picture, it came from MTG, saw it some time after the idea came up and fell in love with it. it some was, the picture has driven me to finish the class.

2011-07-13, 05:42 PM
I realised that the beas manifested at full power if it takes control completely on my third reading of the first ability [I kept reading because there HAD to be a reason for you writing it like that].

I suggest putting the whole "running rampant" part under a completely seperate heading and spelling out the behaviour and stat bonuses there and then putting the hybrid form stuff under a second, separate heading, and spelling out what bonuses they gain there. It's really not conventional to give a +3 bonus to a stat and it has the very real potential to get confusing.

2011-07-14, 03:30 AM
Yeah, I think that the Hybrid form shouldn't give bonuses like +3 or +5 too, it could be confusing.
I really like the class, and the fact of the two separate minds.
I think you should add some other options for the powers and the body, and some feats like "extra nether power" or "extra nether body".

2011-07-18, 10:45 AM
Mulletmanalive-once I figure out a way to write it down good I will, currently I'm struggeling...

edsaurus-I intend to do so, but I can really use more ideas for the powers and body options...

2011-07-18, 01:49 PM
You can add not only a Tail, but even other kind of natural attacks.
You can add power-ups for the natural attacks, and other things like dive/swim and other kind of movement.
Ah, and I think you should make the Body feature more often, 4 times is a little bit underpowered.

For the powers you can add magical bonuses for natural attacks, and other mimic-a-spell like abilities.

2011-07-18, 11:42 PM
I like it. This is a lot closer to what I'd had in mind when I read the Harrowed and the Champion, so I'd say mission accomplished. It also reminds me a little of the Magitech Templar and other "create an outsider" and monster classes with the ability menus and ability chains, a very successful mechanic. I always think stuff should have more options but you've got all the mains covered here so there's no need to ask for more (all you're really missing is tentacles and damage reduction anyway). Nether Blast and Dispel Magic should be based on class level, not charisma modifier, otherwise they're laughably weak. The Blast can use the standard 1d6/2 levels, while the dispel should just use class level=caster level (and should ignore the usual +10 cap).

If you really wanted more stuff I might suggest pulling signature abilities out of big bad guys like the less well known demons and nightshades and stuff, but one of the better things about this class is that it's not trying to emulate something else. It just takes a simple idea, slaps some numbers and simple mechanics on it, and it works. I especially like that it's designed with full intent that yes, you will unleash the beast. Too many classes assume that you should never do that and give it useless default orders or make it trivially weak or something. For this class, the full beast is clearly the full combat form and it explicitly goes after life-threatening targets first, and also explicitly keeps it's host alive if at all possible. The control mechanic is excellent: you can easily tap the hybrid link a few times per day for a few rounds at a time without serious risk, and in dangerous fights it's actually more advantageous to unleash the full beast early, allowing it to kick ass for you and then leaving it weaker when the fight's over and you need to regain control. So basically, don't change anything cause I think you've got it right already.

Oh, and excellent use of the Death's Shadow picture. Works perfectly.

2011-07-19, 07:41 AM
You can add ways to expand the Hybrid form, and other for the Beast form.
Have you ever read Blue Dragon Ral Omega Grad?
Something like that.

2011-07-19, 09:15 AM
edsaurus-Never even heard of it, education hole?

Fizban-Thanks, and as for the blast and dispel, I feel that if I DO make them like that people will spam them, and they are available early, and infinitely. but I think I can chain them up to superior versions without causing too much harm...

Also, I think I got a few ideas for new powers/bodies...checking them out now to make sure they don't create over-powerful shenanigans with the rest of the class... (and 1 new aura too! hurry for flexibility in a single class!)

2011-07-19, 03:28 PM

Here it is Blue Dragon Ral Grad.
Substantially, the protagonist has got inside him a "shadow" (something like the Nether Beast) and can use its powers at will, but he risks to lose control, and become more and more like the shadow.
He can use a "hybrid form" where he has got the claws and the wings of the dragon, a "out form" where the dragon and him are separated and a "beast form" where he has got the full powers of the dragon within his body, altering his aspect.

2011-07-21, 03:37 AM
I hate to be that guy (or would it be anti-that guy?), but I am so against putting dragons in this. Dragons already have more support than anything else, I don't think they need to show up in a perfectly good non-specific evilness fluffed class (seriously, I don't think there are any WoTC books with stuff for a "beast within" concept, just binding and raging). Dragons are great, but I like my darkness pure. The Well of Despair need not be tainted with dragons, nor demons, nor the undead. The Shadow itself will occupy your soul.

2011-07-21, 06:15 AM
Amusing manga there...I like it...

But yes, dragons get too much into everything...

2011-07-21, 02:09 PM
I didn't say it has to be a dragon, but to use the concepts from that manga (like the various abilities of the protagonist, and the various forms of the "shadows") for this class.

For example, I playtested a Netherhost, and my Nether Beast was a Wolf, i used two claws as natural attacks.
I think you should add the body feature "extra natural attack", to add another kind of natural attack.

2011-07-21, 03:26 PM
There are the two tails for that, and I'm now considering a few more...

And you playtested it? do tell! what level? how did it play out? how did others respond to him? I wonna hear it all...

As far as I think of them the Beasts are not actually "animals" but more of bizarre creatures beyond mortal understanding, but heck part of their fluff is that nobody is sure what the heck are they...so everything goes!

2011-07-22, 05:53 AM
Level 10, and I think that without other natural attacks it is a little bit underpowered. i think you should add, other than a tail, even a bite, horn and other natural attacks.
It went well, though. :3

In the playtest the fluff was really good, as I said, my "beast" was something like a demonic wolf, or something like that.
If you add other body and powers, and the possibility to grow another natural attack at level 10 (or 15, if you think is better) it can a really good class.

2011-07-22, 08:46 AM
Very nice class.
AFAIK, this is the 1st successful attempt at creating a truly possessed class.
I thought of making something similar, but had no idea where to begin.

There's just one thing I don't get.
What does this class have to offer when the beast is dormant?
I mean, Augmentation Overflow and Symbiotic Health are not enough. They don't give anywhere near enough incentives not to transform (and it should have abilities that are inaccessible when the beats is fully or partially awake).

2011-07-22, 08:56 AM
Horn is a nice idea...forgot about them actually X_X
Maybe a bite too...

But what "upgrade" will they have for the second "body"? the bite could get acid damage upgrade I assume, but I want to steer away from elemental damage got an idea but its overly nasty..., and the horn? donno, puchback on charge?

Also gotta makesure you can't stack too many natural attacks as well...that too could be risky...

Maybe add more alternate attack options in powers could do the trick...

Also, now updating with 2 new powers. one defensive damage, the other buff/debuff...

BTW-out of curiosity, what did you choose for Powers, Body and Aura?

2011-07-22, 06:26 PM
Aura of Fear.
For the powers I chose Draining strikes and Nether fade.
For the body I chose Natural defenses (I think this should be by default a class ability) and Stinger tail.

I think you should make the Body more often, like at 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20 and put more options like other natural attacks (with a cap of a maximum number of natural attacks based on level) and other features.
And you can add a new natural attack at level 10, I think.

2011-07-23, 12:38 PM

Maybe I can split Body into two, one granting attacks and the other granting utility/defensive modifications?

That way I can afford to add many new attack options without concern of people spamming more attacks...and with the two split, the only 4 body modifications wont matter much, as you don't waste them on new attacks.

2011-07-23, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I think that is right. :D

2011-07-24, 03:42 AM
Once again I think I'll disagree. As I said, I do like my options, but I think the class has enough abilities right now. It doesn't have any dead levels and the "every 5th level" progression for the main body powers is very elegant. This class strikes me very much as a "you get what you get" class, not one that should be optimized to the max. Right now you only make a few choices, basically picking a main stat, two body progressions you'll max out, and an aura type. Having that much control over the demon inside is pretty dang lucky. Classes like Person Man's Magitech Templar have several large menus of abilites and are quite awesome, but lend them selves to extremely customized builds and end up with a lot of built in optimization. And that makes sense for a class where the character is literally building a custom suit of power armor piece by piece.

I think a class where the power comes from a "demon" you can't control shouldn't be like that. Maybe you get a few options, but no fine tuning of abilities, no specialized progressions that mesh with gear and other stuff. It's a beast and it's gonna do what it wants. This doesn't mean you can't optimize it, but you need to do so with your own feats, multiclassing, and worn gear. You can work with the beast and make it even stronger, but it's gonna take work, not a handout. The beast bends to no one's will, so you're going to have to bend your own build to make it work. (If you do make changes, might I suggest a changelog of sorts?)

2011-07-24, 06:50 AM
@Fizban - your argument is definitely sound, but looking at the Host Abilities, unless I'm missing something, when the beast is dormant they amount to zero at levels 1st through 5th and to no more than 5 at level 18th and on - and they're all subsets of the beast's full power, so there's no real incentive to really struggle with the beast (except for remaining in control - which you can easily accomplish by optimizing Will saves).

The Netherhost's Host Abilities are summed up to Protective Transformation (plus natural attack, if you count Augmentation Overflow).
Everything else is just stats.
It should get nice stuff, such as sensory enhancements, new movement options, the ability to survive in hostile environments, power over mortals' minds or some other nifty stuff.

2011-07-24, 12:12 PM
Fizban-the "customization" represents more that each beast is a unique creature that has nothing to do with other beasts then you controling it. sure the PLAYER has control, but the CHARACTER is stuck with whatever comes down on him.

nonsi-the beasts grants those, the whole idea of the class is drawing power from the beast.

I think the answer might be to make slight additions to the capabilities of the host himself, making him on his own a bit more interesting, and a bit stronger, without making the beast itself too flexible.

What you think?

2011-07-24, 02:41 PM
I think the answer might be to make slight additions to the capabilities of the host himself, making him on his own a bit more interesting, and a bit stronger, without making the beast itself too flexible.

What you think?

An option that just cam to mind is give it some powers that derive from both the beast's nature and the host's vigilance and experience in constantly struggling with it (such as Uncanny Dodge, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Concentration and Autihypnosis bonuses, etc), which are not available when the beast is awake (the beat's fury makes them inaccessible to it) - that way there is some trade off in transforming - there are reasons for transforming and there's a reason not to change.

2011-07-24, 06:34 PM
Clever...I need to think this through...

2011-07-25, 03:37 AM
I playtested it, and I can say for sure that without a boost, this class is a little bit underpowered, because with only two natural attacks you don't do so many damage.
And if you choose the Tail from the body, you lose access to other important Body features, so I think that the class needs three features, not two.
Body, powers and Natural attacks.
So you can customize better the beast inside the character.

2011-07-25, 05:52 AM
I would make the following combinations:
- Stinger Tail + Poison Sting
- Muscular Tail + Sweeping Tail
- Nether Senses without the requirement for Empowered Senses (requires 10th level)
- Nix Sprout Wings and allow Nether Wing with no prerequisites.

Also, Host Abilities should definitely have powers over mortal minds (fear, confusion, charm, domination etc).

2011-07-25, 09:38 AM
I think the Beast is more like "destroy everything" than "control mind of others", but obviously this can change from a Beast to another.

For the other things, I agree.

2011-07-25, 12:44 PM
I think the Beast is more like "destroy everything" than "control mind of others"

The beast, yes.
The host.....................

2011-07-25, 05:50 PM
My host, for example, was Chaotic Good, and he hated the Beast inside him, but had to use its powers.

2011-07-26, 03:32 AM
It's kind of a feeling that less is more. Sure each beast is unique, but that doesn't mean it has to have tons of customizable stats. Player optimization of those stats will tend to make the beasts more similar than if there were less options and the individuality was mostly fluff. You could also say that while the beast should have XYZ abilities, it can't express them fully through the damnable host body, so it's stuck with just simplistic powers (for tearing your head off).

If playtesting is showing it's a little weak then it could probably use some more stuff, but I still don't think it needs picks every level from a massive menu or anything like that. When the beast changes nearly as fast as the person it's occupying, it makes it seem like the beast isn't so much huger than they are.

2011-07-27, 02:23 AM
Of course, you're right.
The only thing I said it has to be changed is the separation of Natural weapons and Body, because the class is a little bit underpowered without these changes.