The Misadventures in Spellcasting and general Skullduggery

[SanusCompleo]

You may remember the "How to make a Mute Spellcaster" post from last night, well unfortunately for you folks, I'm back again. Muteness aside, I'm facing other problems with this particular character -- and I come to you fine folks to help me.

Rather than have a long-winded introductory post, I think I'll just jump into the midst of things. I'm looking for how to get the most out of this eccentric character idea, which of course is a round-about way of getting a Spontaneous Blaster Beguiler.

So far what I'm looking at is Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2. I feel I've already made mistakes here. Terrible wretched horrible vile monstrous mistakes. Secondly... I've lost no caster levels... because my DM is a kind one, and helped me work out this terribly wretched feat taken from 3.0 (In all honesty it should never see the light of day...)

Learned Spellcaster [Magic]

You have developed better spellcasting ability.

Benefit You gain one caster level for all purposes (including spell slots per day), to a maximum caster level equal to your Total Class Levels.

If you take this feat and would end up with a caster level higher than your total class levels, the remainder is banked for later use. For example, if a halfcaster takes this feat at first level (and would end up with a theoretical “1.5 caster levels”, capped by his total class levels at 1), when he takes a second level of a halfcaster class the remainder gets used (giving him two caster levels when he’s got two total class levels).

Not -terribly- unbalanced... but it has a Special. An -evil- special.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.

To offset this, I do believe the special should be something along the lines of the following:
Special: This feat may be taken up to three times. It's effects stack.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. You must select a different spellcasting class to apply it's benefits to each time you take this feat. It's effects do not stack.

Or just simply remove the special entirely, and have it set so that you may only take the feat one time. Either way, it's delightful for a player, terrible for a wizard. It can allow you to effectively cancel the fact that you ever multi-classed, save for the benefits you get directly from the other class. It's like Gestalting without all the guilt, and the cost of a feat.

Anyway, I feel slightly less guilty about it now that I've gotten it off of my chest... And I bring it to your attention, to humbly request someone wiser than I edit it so that it is much less cheesy.

Second order of business. I have no idea what levels to take. :I To show you how twisted up I am about this matter, here is my written out level progression up to 20.


1 - Rogue 1
2 - Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1
3 - Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2
4 - Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 1 (taking that terrible feat if possible to save caster levels and be cheesy with Human Paragon's second level)
5 - Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 2
6 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 2
7 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 2/Unseen Seer 1
8 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1
9 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 1
10 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 2
11 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3
12 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 1
13 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 2
14 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 2/Archmage 1
15 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 2/Archmage 2
16 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 3/Archmage 2
17 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 3/Archmage 3
18 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 4/Archmage 3
19 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 4/Archmage 4
20 - Rogue 2/Sorcerer 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Arcane Trickster 5/Archmage 4


Deplorable, I know... I have a sickness. They say that admitting you have a problem is the first step to curing it.

Rogue 2 (At 6) is to get the skills to qualify for Unseen Seer, along with the Human Paragon levels... At that level, as well as the second Human Paragon... I intend to take that horrible terrible feat -- unless of course I am encouraged otherwise? I do not know.

I don't find there to be great synergy with the classes I've picked out... Feats are stolen by the few metamagic feats I would like to use (Quicken, Twin Spell, Chain Spell (Perhaps Split Ray. I do not know if Split Ray and Twin Spell Work.)). It is certainly not a character built for battlefield control, unless you count a battlefield filled with cripsy bits to be "Controlled".

Mostly trying to be sneaky and then hurt lots of things at once. To make matters worse, my character already has no verbal components ever. Permanent Silent spell because of character history. Which is also terribly cheesy. Offsets for this are that the campaign is hugely RP oriented (No chance at all of getting level 20), Magic is completely outlawed (Executioner's block, here I come!), and yet everyone I fight against has a very good deal of it. We've fought the kind of zombies that make you a zombie after a bite if you fail a fort save (At level 3. Five of them. Two of us at the time, each with more than double my squishy HP, and the best spell I had was Shocking Grasp). My thoughts are getting away from me now... but perhaps the information was needed to help help? >.>

What I'm looking for... is perhaps a better way to get the Sneak, pick lock and Blast deal... with Rogue 1/Sorcerer 2 at the beginning (Because I cannot reclass). Spell suggestions would be welcome as well, I've got Still spell and a permanent Silent spell, Metamagic bonuses for the exchange of my familiar, free Weapon Focus: Dagger, And Weapon Finesse. (Would Daggerspell Mage be good for all this crazy jazz?)

Finally my spells are Prestidigitation (Saved me just once), Mage Hand (I use this in every situation. All of the situations.), Electric Jolt (Good for a short ranged spell to blow up something that might explode... has been used for the exact purpose), and Shocking Grasp as my useful spells. Spells I have not used at all (For lack of the ability to cast them when they'd be useful) are Shield, True Strike, and Resistance. Going to swap Shield for Mage Armor anyhow.

At any rate... Feel free to criticize harshly, give suggestions, tell where I made mistakes; or drastically improve upon the concept! Afterall, I only intend to do is reap the valuable opinions ideas and experience from you all!

[Toliudar]

Sanus, I don't get a good sense of what your intent is with the self-flagellation. If you feel (with some justification, I'd say) that the custom feat is too cheesy, just don't use it more than once. There are lots of ways to build a sneaky blaster that don't suffer overmuch from lost caster levels. But I don't know the balance with the rest of your group, so it's hard for me to know whether you're just obsessively optimizing, or trying to keep up with the group.

In terms of spells, look at Cloud of Knives - a really lovely way to get a really high attack bonus and a sneak-eligible spell. Shocking Grasp seems like an odd choice, since I'd have assumed that you'd want to hidden and as far away from opponents as possible. Have you considered one of the lesser orb spells instead?

[Coidzor]

CL does not control the spells actually available to a caster in 3.5.

Even if it did, there are better ways of increasing one's CL above one's HD to take real advantage of such a loophole, which this feat can't even do.

All this does is trade feats for levels in non-casting classes, which might be ok once or twice but won't be as good as just taking feats that give more benefit. Like Gishing would be slightly easier for humans or characters with flaws.

In regards to Shifty-Eyed Casters... (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240.0)

[SanusCompleo]

CL does not control the spells actually available to a caster in 3.5.

The feat has in the benefit: "You gain one caster level for all purposes (including spell slots per day)", which implies it also affects Spells Known... but it's an implication either way. Also, going through your link as we speak.


Sanus, I don't get a good sense of what your intent is with the self-flagellation. If you feel (with some justification, I'd say) that the custom feat is too cheesy, just don't use it more than once. There are lots of ways to build a sneaky blaster that don't suffer overmuch from lost caster levels. But I don't know the balance with the rest of your group, so it's hard for me to know whether you're just obsessively optimizing, or trying to keep up with the group.

It may not be so much obsessive, rather the fact that the DM does enjoy hurting the players. Negative level attacks starting at level 4, Save or Die/Become a monstar; generally unpleasant things. The DM's advice when I said, rather dumbfoundedly, "...A Fort or Become-A-Zombie sort of zombie?" was "Well... Kill it faster."

[Coidzor]

The feat has in the benefit: "You gain one caster level for all purposes (including spell slots per day)", which implies it also affects Spells Known... but it's an implication either way. Also, going through your link as we speak. Yes, if CLs granted additional spell slots per day, you'd certainly get them with that feat.


It may not be so much obsessive, rather the fact that the DM does enjoy hurting the players. Negative level attacks starting at level 4, Save or Die/Become a monstar; generally unpleasant things. The DM's advice when I said, rather dumbfoundedly, "...A Fort or Become-A-Zombie sort of zombie?" was "Well... Kill it faster."

Might I refer to my sig? :smallwink:

[SanusCompleo]

Yes, if CLs granted additional spell slots per day, you'd certainly get them with that feat.



Might I refer to my sig? :smallwink:

The description of the feat says that it does grant additional spell slots per day... which is the reason I take it. It comes from an obscure feat from 3.0 that I found while delving the depths of the interwebs. Let me look it up.

Also my DM is too far away to bite. And they might be reading this -right now-. Which means I need EVEN MORE HELP... to deal with whatever might bite me next.

[Coidzor]

Also my DM is too far away to bite. And they might be reading this -right now-. Which means I need EVEN MORE HELP... to deal with whatever might bite me next.

Well, that was your first mistake and second all rolled into one between playing distance and playing with someone petty enough to punish you for others telling you that he's being an ass. And your third too by having this posted in a way that could be connected back to you. :smallconfused:

[CigarPete]

Practiced Spellcaster (CDiv/CArc) is the slightly less cheesy 3.5 version of that feat. Doesn't give you additional spells known, but does give an increase in effective CL for spell effects/duration and SR penetration (up to +4CL but not greater than your character level).

[Redshirt Army]

As has been mentioned, by RAW in 3.5, that feat doesn't get you more spells known anyhow, and therefore Practiced Spellcaster is better- if you're going to exploit conversions from 3.0 to 3.5, ensure they still work.

Also: Is your DM fine with you using Metaphysical Spellshaper? It's kinda 3rd party (Book of Erotic Fantasy), and also kinda broken if you use Naberius or a Strongheart Vest soulbind (turns metamagic costs into ability damage, for those who don't feel like looking it up).

[Fouredged Sword]

A more agressive alternative to Unseen seer is Daggerspell mage. It makes for decent blasting with thrown daggers of shocking grasp. I have also used Duskblade and Rouge to enter dagger spell mage with good effect. Nothing like stacking two shocking grasps on a hit with blade of blood to really drop something fast.

Other than that just have fun. You are still tier two, not tier one, so don't go over the to and you will still give everyone else in the group thier time to shine.