What are the benefits to a PHD?

[Doctor Acula]

Exactly what it says on the tin.

Why would I want to put all that work in to become a PHD?

I ask because my parents are adamant that I need a "Dr." of one kind or another infront of my name and I don't want to shut them down without knowing the pros and cons.

Esspecially compared to MDs or PsyDs or even JDs, I can see any of these being pursued by myself but I am still very much in the research phase and am curious what makes the PHD different.

[Rawhide]

You get to call yourself Dr. Samuel Fancypants, or Samuel Fancypants, PhD. Both awesome names. Second only to a Bachelor of of Science, which allows you to call yourself Samuel Fancypants, BS.

[Force]

A PhD (generally) indicates that you have spent a great deal of time pursuing mastery of a specific discipline within your field. You've done actual research/journal-level writing, and you're qualified to teach at the university level. It also indicates that you're quite intelligent and capable in your field.

Depending on the field, it can also lead to a fairly lucrative job ($50k-100k) at a university or, if you are so inclined, an even higher-paying job in industry.

On the personal level, don't go for a PhD just because your parents want you to get one. Acquiring a PhD requires a /lot/ of resources (time and money), and, depending on the field, absolutely requires dedication to the point of addiction. You won't be able to hack it just because your parents are pushing it.

[Doctor Acula]

On the personal level, don't go for a PhD just because your parents want you to get one. Acquiring a PhD requires a /lot/ of resources (time and money), and, depending on the field, absolutely requires dedication to the point of addiction. You won't be able to hack it just because your parents are pushing it.

I knew someone would say something like this. And I do appreciate that it is a good piece of advice. But my parents aren't the only reason I'm looking into this, they are the motivating factor for my stress over this at the moment.

They brought it up and although I have been thinking about it for a while when they said its what they expected of me it became very real. So now I'm doing research on it before I say "This isn't what I want with my life" or "I agree, I should do this"

[BlackSheep]

The value of a PhD varies greatly, depending on the industry that you're in. How far along in your studies are you, and what field are you thinking about entering?

[THAC0]

I wouldn't be researching it here, unless you want a PHD in gaming. I'd be talking to people in the field, people who have been there, done that. There's a wide variety of fields to get a PHD in, and the pros and cons vary by field. It's likely specialized knowledge as well - knowledge that you're more likely to get from someplace not here.

[Doctor Acula]

Currently im majoring in Economics and Sociology. I think I may get a masters in Psychology, Economics, Sociology or Anthropology and a Phd in the same topics as I am considering for a masters. But I may go to law school to and then get a JD

[LaZodiac]

PHDs, as far as I am aware, and little peices of paper that let you say "oh man I am professionaly trained, hire me over someone else".

[BlackSheep]

I wouldn't be researching it here, unless you want a PHD in gaming. I'd be talking to people in the field, people who have been there, done that. There's a wide variety of fields to get a PHD in, and the pros and cons vary by field. It's likely specialized knowledge as well - knowledge that you're more likely to get from someplace not here.

This is a good point. I didn't go to grad school after getting my degree because my friends who graduated ahead of me all told me there wasn't much point to it outside of a teaching position.

Law school sounds like a safe path toward gainful employment, if that's ultimately your goal. You can probably find good jobs with masters degrees in econ and psych, but for sociology or anthropology, you might need your doctorate to qualify for the more desirable positions.

If money's no object, and you just want to sound important or study a field that you're passionate about, by all means, get your PhD.

Ultimately, you're going to have a lot of life to live once you're done with school, no matter which choice you make. Some thought about what you'd like that life to be like can help make the decision easier, or at least narrow your choices. Of course, once you do graduate, be prepared to throw out any and all plans you've made. Life's like that.

[Kiero]

Unless you intend a career in academia or science, it's largely a vanity and nothing more.

Even the latter, I have a friend who works in biotech and she never uses her official title of "Dr" because she thinks its irrelevant.

So if money is no object and you don't mind spending another three years at university, go ahead. On the other hand if you're funding it yourself, it's additional debt for no reward.

[Anxe]

My internship professor explained the practical differences between a PHD and a Masters in my field, Biochemistry. With a Master's I will be hired and probably not promoted after that. I could always go back and get my PHD at a later time though. With a PHD I would be hired and promoted. Without either I would not be hired unless I did a bunch of internship stuff.

Another story I have is my father's PHD in child linguistics. My dad has never used that degree for its intended purpose (whatever that is). My dad works with computers doing technical writing (instruction manuals for writing software is how I've always thought of it). The PHD does not directly tell people that he is good at technical writing, but it does tell them that he can work hard for a distant goal. It also tells them that he is very smart even if its not in the right field. When asked, my dad said he did not regret getting the PHD.

So a PHD will allow someone to work at an advanced research position in their field and be a cool thing to put on a resume for other fields. It also allows you to be called Doctor Last Name (My dad is only called Dr. Anxe by spam).

[polity4life]

As many have pointed out, it depends on the field. I've been told by doctorates of the many sections of liberal arts that one should not pursue a PhD unless he is paid to do so, meaning a masters is often times enough. But it really depends on the field.

As for anthropology, if you're leaning towards cultural anthropology then the American federal government would like you to apply. There has been a severe shortage of cultural anthropologists in the foreign service. They can't pay at a premium but public sector pay with a post-graduate degree is pretty nice.

[Adlan]

What would you do If you were not persuing a Phd? What jobs are there open to you now with your degree? And what promotion prospects are there without a doctorate? If you want the promotion indeed?

I am 2 years into my Bsci in Industrial Chemistry, and just done a year working in industry. I don't want to get a Phd because the time spent doing that instead of working averages out the promotion rate from what I can see, a lot of it's seniority and who knows you, at least from the people both with and without doctorates I've spoken to.

Of course, I'm also not doing a Phd because I enjoy working, I don't enjoy university as much, and don't want to remain a student. If you do enjoy it, stay doing it. I wouldn't trade a significant chunk of my life away doing something I didn't enjoy without significant incentive.

[Manga Shoggoth]

You get to call yourself Dr. Samuel Fancypants, or Samuel Fancypants, PhD. Both awesome names. Second only to a Bachelor of of Science, which allows you to call yourself Samuel Fancypants, BS.

Alas, it's "BSc", not "BS". At least, my one is... Perhaps us UK people are different...

More on topic - I only know one person in my group at University who went on to do a Doctorate. The rest of us got on fine with our normal Honours degrees and - where necessary - the relevent professional qualifications which they got later.

As has been stated, unless you are going into academia or know that you actually need a doctorate, don't do it. It is a lot of effort that you may well want to spend elsewhere.

[pendell]

In the computer science world, a Master's is of great value and opens most of the doors.

A Ph.D is useful for your career if:
1) You are intending to pursue a career as a university professor.
2) You are going for a DOD-contractor job that mandates a Ph.D. as part of the qualifications. These are rare but not unheard of.

Outside of those specific situations, a Ph.D can actually be harmful because the hiring managers assume you will demand more salary for doing the same job. So your resume will get tossed into the bin as "over-qualified".

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Eldan]

You get to call yourself Dr. Samuel Fancypants, or Samuel Fancypants, PhD. Both awesome names. Second only to a Bachelor of of Science, which allows you to call yourself Samuel Fancypants, BS.

But I also like to call myself The Master of Science!

[Dallas-Dakota]

On a completely unrelated note, you have a awesome name. Nice Scrubs reference!

[snoopy13a]

A big difference is that a PhD is an academic degree whereas MDs and JDs are professional degrees. One needs to conduct independent research and write a doctorial thesis to earn a PhD. Professional degrees simply require one to pass a series of classes.

PhDs are tailored for those who either want to be university professors or researchers. How marketable the degree is depends on your field and the prestige of the university where you earned it from. One could likely get a tenure track position with an English PhD from Yale. However, an English PhD from Northsouthern Directional State may lead to unemployment.

A MD is by far the most marketable degree and is likely followed by other healthcare professional degrees such as dentistry (DDS). A sciences PhD is likely the next most marketable degree. JDs follow (note there are lots of unemployed and underemployed lawyers) while a liberal arts PhD is the biggest crapshoot of them all.

[SDF]

For the fields you mentioned a Ph.D will allow you little else than the chance to try to get into the incredibly competitive and poorly payed world of academia. My gf is doing an undergrad in anth and I was with her when the department head told her that they graduate about 500 Ph.D's in anthropology every year and there are about 60 teaching positions that open up in the US.

[bebosteveo]

Intelligent summary by SDF

This. If you were in engineering or the hard sciences (biology, chemistry, etc) then you would have the option to teach, go into academia, or serve as the head-dude in some industrial R&D lab. But in the soft sciences and liberal arts there are far fewer jobs that require a PhD to qualify for.

So, unless you really want to turn around and teach economics/sociology getting the doctorate probably won't be very useful or significant. Of course if you go to law school then that's a completely different matter.

Sincerely,
Sir Doctor Professor Pretentious B**** esquire, PhD, MD, DDS, the third

[Eldan]

A big difference is that a PhD is an academic degree whereas MDs and JDs are professional degrees. One needs to conduct independent research and write a doctorial thesis to earn a PhD. Professional degrees simply require one to pass a series of classes.


That confuses me, really... I've been in the lab and field for nearly four months now for my Master's thesis. And the Bachelor's thesis wasn't a small paper either.

[Keld Denar]

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, and I've done a little research into getting my MS. Frankly, its a LOT of work, a LOT of expensive schooling, and almost no extra cashola in my industry. My Professional Engineering certification (Mr Samual Fancypants, PE) is worth much more than an MS is, and only requires 2 exams and 4 years spent working and earning an income. I'm not sure what more a PhD in engineering would get me, other than a professor's role in a university, which doesn't frankly interest me much, and would probably result in a decrease in pay (although a significant increase in security, assuming you get tenured).

Basically, doing a time value of money estimate, I'd be better off working in my field for 3 years, earning steady raises and promotions, than getting even just my masters degree. Sure, I'd make a bit more with an MS, but it would take YEARS to earn back the lost income while I was getting my MS, not to mention paying off the tens of thousands of dollars such a degree would cost.

Or, in even simpler terms

Money now + raises/promotions/experience > more money later - debt

[Rawhide]

Alas, it's "BSc", not "BS". At least, my one is... Perhaps us UK people are different...

More on topic - I only know one person in my group at University who went on to do a Doctorate. The rest of us got on fine with our normal Honours degrees and - where necessary - the relevent professional qualifications which they got later.

As has been stated, unless you are going into academia or know that you actually need a doctorate, don't do it. It is a lot of effort that you may well want to spend elsewhere.

It's both, most places suggest BSc specifically to avoid "BS".

But I told a lie, there is indeed one title better, as shown next to this office door (http://web.archive.org/web/20070801123756/http://www.prankmike.com/pranks/1/7.jpg). More pictures of the office here (http://web.archive.org/web/20080617043204/http://www.prankmike.com/pranks/index.php?id=1).

OVP, CCNA, WTF Fighter Pilot. Can someone please tell me how I can become a WTF Fighter Pilot?

But, more seriously, PhD is mostly a personal goal and probably not worth the cost in time, stress and money in most fields if you only look at its raw value to your career. There are fields, such as academia and the sciences, where a PhD can be invaluable.

I'm not saying it won't help, but there are often better ways to achieve the same or better results, career wise, in fields where it is not required. Do as the others have suggested. Ask previous graduates and people who work (and in particular, employ) in the field you are interested in. Look to the employment census/statistics results to see the number of people in your field employed and unemployed, their qualification levels, and their average salaries by qualification level. Talk with your lecturers, career advisors, and fellow students. Then examine any personal goals this will help you achieve (i.e. It may not make perfect financial sense, but is it still something you want to do?).

[Lady Moreta]

For the fields you mentioned a Ph.D will allow you little else than the chance to try to get into the incredibly competitive and poorly payed world of academia. My gf is doing an undergrad in anth and I was with her when the department head told her that they graduate about 500 Ph.D's in anthropology every year and there are about 60 teaching positions that open up in the US.

Also seconding this.

I have a BA(hons) and an MA in Anthropology and was actually told by the department that the only point in going further and getting a PhD is if I wanted to teach/lecture at university. If you're not interested in a career in academia, then there's not much point in getting a PhD. You'd be better off getting a Masters and then calling it quits.

Having said that, while I suspect the same holds true for economics and sociology, I don't know for sure. I would suggest talking to the appropriate departments at your uni and also talking to a careers advisory something. They will have a better idea. I would also suggest not doing a Master and a PhD... especially not on the same topic. It would seem to be unnecessary extra work. PhD trumps MA anyway, so why bother doing both? But again, check with the people who'll really know first.

[Eldan]

What do you mean? Can you do a PhD without a Master's somewhere? :smallconfused:

[Rawhide]

What do you mean? Can you do a PhD without a Master's somewhere? :smallconfused:

Yes, you can.

[Eldan]

Yes, you can.

Really? How, and where? Because I'm feeling slightly cheated now, if I didn't have to do my masters first. Never heard of this option before, and two years of wasted lectures and half a year of field research kinda irks me. I mean, I had a good time, mostly, but still.

[Rawhide]

Really? How, and where? Because I'm feeling slightly cheated now, if I didn't have to do my masters first. Never heard of this option before, and two years of wasted lectures and half a year of field research kinda irks me. I mean, I had a good time, mostly, but still.

Australia, United Kingdom, United States, Canada, others...

Apparently it's possible to get a PhD without a Bachelors in the UK...

[Lady Moreta]

Apparently it's possible to get a PhD without a Bachelors in the UK...

Seriously? How on earth is that supposed to work? :smallconfused:

And yes, my sister was getting a PhD without her Masters (she ended up changing it to a MA in the end, but still). I could have gone straight for the PhD if I'd wanted to, but I knew that for me at least, it'd be a waste of time, as I don't want to teach.

[Phaedra]

Australia, United Kingdom, United States, Canada, others...

Apparently it's possible to get a PhD without a Bachelors in the UK...

Well, theoretically, yeah. Your supervisor could take you on without any degree if they felt you could complete the research. Practically though, it never happens - there's set entry standards which include an undergrad. I wouldn't advise anyone to do a PhD without doing a Masters anyway, let alone an undergrad - you'd have no experience doing extended periods of research or writing lengthy academic works and it'd be hard to learn how to do that at the same time as actually doing the PhD.

As someone who's just tidying up the final draft of their PhD thesis as we speak (type?), I would say go for a PhD if you have a topic in mind that you are very veryinterested in, a source of funding, and, preferably, an interest in a career in research. Otherwise, three or more years is a very long time to be studying one area of research and you will probably hate every minute of it (and be very poor also if you have no funding). If you do have money and the interest, you'll probably still hate parts of it, but overall it'll be worth it - you'll have spent your time achieving something very few people achieve doing something you love and it hardly holds you back for any career (plug those transferable skills, you'll have been managing a project for three years, you'll have gained a lot).

[Runestar]

There's a benefit to getting Permanent Head Damage? :smalltongue:

[Gaius Marius]

There is this guy at the office, who used to teach as a local prestigious university (McGill) in political sciences who told me I should consider a career in a geopolitical Think-Tank, and in order to achieve this, I need a PhD.

He told me I would probably find such career a lot more rewarding than the job I have as quantitative financial analyst. Except monetary-wise, obviously.

I do love geopolitics.. I have already a newsletter to a select group of people that forward geopolitical events and I usually add my own comments. It's kind of a hobby, but i recently get overly enthusiast talking about it at the office, and people joke about "is this analysis of China your PhD?" or, when I started explainning the intricated links between Canada and Cuba, and te history between the two countries, "Why don't you go into geopolitics?"

So... I hesitate. I contemplate. I invested a lot in this career already, and I have already switched career path once (actuarial sciences --> finances). Would I be but a dilettante if I switch again? How can i contemplate a Masters in a field i never actually studied? I did MATHS..

But again, what do you say to a man who took 2 hours of his precious business time to have a coffee with me so he could tell you that, and that he's seen a lot of young people over the years, and he actually believes you have what it takes..?

[mootoall]

One thing you might want to look at are colleges with matriculatory programs for MAs. I know that one of my top choices for colleges is one that isn't as prestigious as my oher choices, but has a matriculating BA/MA in psychology, allowing for earlier entry into the work force, and less total investment if I want to consider a PhD.

[snoopy13a]

There is this guy at the office, who used to teach as a local prestigious university (McGill) in political sciences who told me I should consider a career in a geopolitical Think-Tank, and in order to achieve this, I need a PhD.

He told me I would probably find such career a lot more rewarding than the job I have as quantitative financial analyst. Except monetary-wise, obviously.

I do love geopolitics.. I have already a newsletter to a select group of people that forward geopolitical events and I usually add my own comments. It's kind of a hobby, but i recently get overly enthusiast talking about it at the office, and people joke about "is this analysis of China your PhD?" or, when I started explainning the intricated links between Canada and Cuba, and te history between the two countries, "Why don't you go into geopolitics?"

So... I hesitate. I contemplate. I invested a lot in this career already, and I have already switched career path once (actuarial sciences --> finances). Would I be but a dilettante if I switch again? How can i contemplate a Masters in a field i never actually studied? I did MATHS..

But again, what do you say to a man who took 2 hours of his precious business time to have a coffee with me so he could tell you that, and that he's seen a lot of young people over the years, and he actually believes you have what it takes..?

It would be a difficult decision as you are probably doing very well financially.

At this point though, it wouldn't hurt to investigate graduate programs to see what are your chances of getting into a prestigious program--I think only a prestigious program would be of any use to you. Also, I think your math and finance background would be a benefit in entering a field such as economics.

[Drolyt]

Currently im majoring in Economics and Sociology. I think I may get a masters in Psychology, Economics, Sociology or Anthropology and a Phd in the same topics as I am considering for a masters. But I may go to law school to and then get a JD
Disclaimer: I'm not omniscient. The following is true to the best of my knowledge, but I'd consult with someone who knew what they were talking about. A PHD usually is for ultimate mastery in an academic subject. Generally you need one to teach at the highest level of university, to do research, or to be an expert/consultant in your field. "Normal" jobs usually don't require a PHD, but that depends on the field. You mentioned Psychology up there, and you definitely do need a PHD to find good Psychology jobs. Not sure about the others. Law is a professional field though, and it rarely pays to get anything more than your JD, just like it would be somewhat unusual to get a PHD in medicine (some research colleges actually offer that though, usually in conjunction with the MD, which probably makes sense if you intend to research rather than practice medicine, or a mix of the two). So ultimately... it kind of depends on what you want out of it.

[mangosta71]

Apparently, somewhere in the required classes for gaining a PhD is "Being Completely ****ing Helpless in the Lab 101". Seriously, I spend more time doing menial crap for the post-docs (which they are fully capable of doing themselves, and they aren't even busy at the time, whereas I'm usually trying to juggle half a dozen different tasks) than doing my own work. I have samples that have been sitting in the freezer for a month because I can't get the 2 days in a row to myself I need for the analysis.

That could be a pro or a con. Pro, if you don't like having to take care of your own ****. Con, if you want to be able to contribute to the work that's being done.
[/rant]

[Gaius Marius]

To be honest, I seriously don't expect to see a lot of Lab work in Geopolitics. And if there is, I expect to see stuff similar to Ender's game.

[Brother Oni]

To be honest, I seriously don't expect to see a lot of Lab work in Geopolitics. And if there is, I expect to see stuff similar to Ender's game.

Depending on your company's line of work, have you considered approaching your HR department to fund you for your PhD?


In my experience, your qualifications will get you in the door, but after that, it's your own skills and attitude that will do the rest. You may have a PhD and the highest IQ in the building, but if your boss tells you to go sweep the floor, you'd better grab that brush.

I didn't get a very good degree pass, and hence less qualified than many of my co-worker but because of my experience, I'm in a more senior position with better pay (mostly because I know where to hit the kit to get it working).

[Gaius Marius]

Depending on your company's line of work, have you considered approaching your HR department to fund you for your PhD?


In my experience, your qualifications will get you in the door, but after that, it's your own skills and attitude that will do the rest. You may have a PhD and the highest IQ in the building, but if your boss tells you to go sweep the floor, you'd better grab that brush.

I didn't get a very good degree pass, and hence less qualified than many of my co-worker but because of my experience, I'm in a more senior position with better pay (mostly because I know where to hit the kit to get it working).

Small firm, but we do have a Macro-strategy division meant for greater exposition. I guess I could chance it.

But it's embarassing for me to come up and say: "Hello, thanks for paying for my CFA exams and recommending me to qualify for a CFA charter. Can I do now a PhD in geopolitics?"

I am afraid of looking like a man who don't have stability. Which may be the case, in truth...

[Brother Oni]

But it's embarassing for me to come up and say: "Hello, thanks for paying for my CFA exams and recommending me to qualify for a CFA charter. Can I do now a PhD in geopolitics?"

I am afraid of looking like a man who don't have stability. Which may be the case, in truth...

Depends exactly on what course or faculty you go for. My company does a long distance learning course with a university for a Masters qualification - they pay for you to do the course (you do your study on your own time) and you get paid leave to go to workshops and exam days.

I think it's a one year course full time, but part time like this, it takes up to three.

As for the stability issue, well you're into politics, you should be able to blackmail persuade your HR manager that sending you off to do a PhD is a good strategic move for the company. :smallbiggrin:

[Jeebers]

Easy. You can make everybody else grovel whenever you yell, "Kneel, puny students! I am your god!!!!!"

I personally have a doctorate in Sea Monkeys. You may... worship me....:smallfurious: