PF Sorcerer Help?

[NeoSeraphi]

So, the Pathfinder sorcerer. It's pretty amazing. I'm really impressed with how it doesn't have nineteen dead levels, like the 3.5 sorcerer. My question relates to this: I'm going to be a human sorcerer (even though gnomes and halflings both get Cha bonuses in Pathfinder, which is also a great improvement), and I want to know everyone's opinion on the bloodlines.

What's your favorite bloodline? What do you like about it? Which bloodline gives the best spell list, etc etc.

As of yet, I have not written the character's backstory nor decided what type of caster I want to be. (Though dealing damage is going to always be available to me, I won't specialize in enchantment or necromancy or transmutation to the point that my purely direct damage capabilities are limited to a scorching ray) I am very flexible, and will write my character after I have decided his bloodline.

The character is a male human in a gestalt Pathfinder game (have not decided his other class). I will be starting at level 2. My DM is also very open to homebrew and 3rd party source material, so please suggest any bloodline you've seen (with a link, please)

Your help would be greatly appreciated, Playground. Flavor and mechanics are equally important to me in this particular endeavor. I hope to hear a lot of cool ideas. Thank you in advance.

Edit: After consideration, I have decided to take a non-casting class as my other gestalt, though I'm not sure which I will be using. Suggestions?

[MeeposFire]

Well as a human you will get an extra spell known every level so that is sweet for a sorcerer.

[Alchemistmerlin]

I only have experience DMing Pathfinder with 1 sorceror.

Something of note: Apparently Elemental Bloodline (Fire) alters your character so that they are made of "Goes Fast". You get +30 feet to your move speed. I don't know that it is particularly useful to a sorcerer to be The Flash, but our party sorcerer certainly enjoys it.

[OracleofSilence]

elemental bloodline is a fairly good one, but it sucks for flavor. something unusual maybe even if it is not as good a bloodline. for example, the undead bloodline would be an excellent choice for a character whose family killed in a rebellion against a lich king. it would create some good contradictions, and would open up some great opportunities for roleplaying. one of my favorites is a CG Sorcerer with the Infernal bloodline, either falling to your heritage or rising above it. if you want power, then none of these are the best options, but they can make very compelling characters if played well. (warning, these ideas can quickly become very cliched if you are not careful (no need to make an arcane WWDD just because your character has an "evil" bloodline))

[subject42]

Actually, if you don't mind some shenanigans, you can get better portion of a three bloodlines. Look at "Crossblooded" sorcerer option and the "Eldritch Heritage" line of feats.

As far as the actual bloodlines go, I love the aberrant bloodline if 3.5 material is allowed. Massive reach + combust/shivering touch is kind of broken.

If you want to make a Mystic Theurge, the Empyreal bloodline is nice, as it lets you use your Wisdom as a casting stat.

[Ravens_cry]

Undead bloodline arcana is very nice in a fairly undead heavy campaign. It makes the mind-affecting "No" into a "Yes" for at least those corporeal ones that were once humanoids. Many are not, but quite a few are, like many low level skeletons and zombies, vampires, mummies, liches, ghouls and ghasts, and there is definitely more.

[Drelua]

The advanced player's guide has some cool bloodlines, though I'm not sure about power. I like the idea of the shadow and storm born, but some, like starsoul, seem pretty lame. Again, I have no idea which are good power-wise, as I never play casters.

You can find a full list of Paizo bloodlines here, as well as some variations.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer

[McSmack]

You only get the +30 movement speed at lvl 15, so it's not really worth it unless your character is starting at higher levels.

I'm currently playing a fire sorcerer in a PF game. I went with gnome, but in retrospect human would have been a better choice. (In the APG it lists alternate favored class bonuses. The human sorcerer bonus is an extra spell known at a level one below the highest level you can cast. This is awesome.)

Humans get +2 to any stat, so you can still be as pretty as a gnome. And the bonus feat always comes in handy.

How to build your character really depends on what role you're looking to fill. For a blaster type. I recommend going with Draconic. It gives +1 damage PER DAMAGE DIE!! for your chosen element. So at 6h level your fireballs deal 6d6+6. which is pretty sweet. It also gives you Perception as a skill, nat armor boosts, elemental resistence and at higher levels wings and a breath weapon.

If you want to take that to the extreme you could use the Crossblooded and Wildblooded options from Ultimate Magic and take the Primal Elemental bloodline in addition to draconic. This would give you and another +1 damage per die. Fireballs at 6d6+12!

I'd shy away from any bloodline that lets you use an energy attack 3+cha/day. IIRC, they all deal 1d6+(1/2 lvl) damage. It's great at lower levels, but loses it's luster really fast.
The Cross-blooded variant costs you one spell known/spell level, but that's significantly offset by your human favored class bonus.

You can even play a sorcerer that's almost a wizard. The wildblooded variant of the arcane bloodline (Sage) let's you substitute Int for Cha on all your sorcerer abilities.

The arcane bloodline itself is a pretty nice one to take if you want a powerful sorcerer that's not specialized. Arcane gives you the arcane bond ability of a wizard, a few extra spells known and a reduction on metamagic costs.

If you're planning on gestalting with a melee class you might consider using the wildblooded Linnorm (Draconic) bloodline. It gives you a nat armor boost equal to the spell level whenever you cast a spell with an energy discription matching your bloodline, lasts 1d4 rounds.

Here's the link to the regualar bloodlines. The Ultimate Magic ones are around somewhere on one of their SRD sites, but I don't have access to it right now.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/sorcerer.html#sorcerer

[NeoSeraphi]

The advanced player's guide has some cool bloodlines, though I'm not sure about power. I like the idea of the shadow and storm born, but some, like starsoul, seem pretty lame. Again, I have no idea which are good power-wise, as I never play casters.

You can find a full list of Paizo bloodlines here, as well as some variations.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer

Yes, I have already looked over it. I was just requesting opinions. I have no real opinion on the bloodlines I've looked over, I just love the fact that they exist to begin with.


Well as a human you get an extra spell known per level

I just double-checked the Pathfinder SRD entries for both humans and sorcerers and found no such rule. Could you please provide a source?

[OracleofSilence]

i don't think that happens at all, but still, humans are a great race in general.

[subject42]

I just double-checked the Pathfinder SRD entries for both humans and sorcerers and found no such rule. Could you please provide a source?

Down near the bottom of this page (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/races/core-races/human).



Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.

[NeoSeraphi]

Interesting...when does "Each time you select the Favored Class bonus" apply?

[MeeposFire]

Interesting...when does "Each time you select the Favored Class bonus" apply?

Assuming you took sorcerer as your first class (or is otherwise your favored class) then every time you take a level in sorcerer you get the bonus. It is why humans should go straight sorc 20 so many more spells. You get the bonus spell instead of an extra HP or skill point (don't ask me how that is balanced to each other but whatever).

[NeoSeraphi]

Wait, a human sorcerer knows twenty more spells than any other sorcerer and gets a Charisma bonus? Wow, that's...wow.

Okay that's nice to know. So anyway, does anyone have any homebrewed bloodlines I could look at? Or perhaps a suggestion for my other class's gestalt?

[CTrees]

Humans, for the extra spells known, are REALLY nice (and remember - favored class is flexible, so if you've got "enough" cantrips and level one spells, you can shove the bonus is to HP/skills for a level here or there). Gnomes are also rather fun - Pyromantic alternate racial feature + Crossblooded Red Draconic/Fire Primal Elemental sorceror... Your lvl5 sorc, with fireball? 6d6+12.

If you like the blasty sorcs, at any rate :smallwink:

[subject42]

Okay that's nice to know. So anyway, does anyone have any homebrewed bloodlines I could look at? Or perhaps a suggestion for my other class's gestalt?

I would suggest using the Empyreal Bloodline in order to make your casting stat Wisdom, then Gestalting with Ranger.


9th level arcane casting
4th level Divine casting
Casting stat synergy
Three good Saves
D10 Hit die
Evasion
Bonus Feats
Full BAB
Favored Class Bonus (applies to Rays!)
Animal Companion

[NeoSeraphi]

I would suggest using the Empyreal Bloodline in order to make your casting stat Wisdom, then Gestalting with Ranger.


9th level arcane casting
4th level Divine casting
Casting stat synergy
Three good Saves
D10 Hit die
Evasion
Bonus Feats
Full BAB
Favored Class Bonus (applies to Rays!)
Animal Companion


I appreciate the feedback, but I would prefer to keep my casting stat Charisma based. (My roleplaying often reflects characters who are very sure of themselves or have a lot of weight behind their words, and so Charisma is one of my favorite stats to use. Meanwhile, Wisdom doesn't help the Sorcerer at all)

I guess I'll go ahead and update my Original Post to reflect what I decided by reading your post. I'm sorry for refuting it, but until you brought it up, I hadn't really decided whether I wanted to gestalt with another casting class, but I really don't.

[Drelua]

Though I've never played a sorcerer, I'd agree that Draconic is a very good bloodline from an NPC in a campaign I DM'd.The extra damage is devastating if used properly, such as with a chain lightning spell, since secondary targets no longer take half damage, like they did in 3.5. Other energy types may be more effective, but I always loved chain lightning.

[subject42]

No worries about declining on that idea. Sometimes you have to see something concrete before you know that there's a requirement you haven't thought of.

Let's run down the base classes for comparison and analysis.


Barbarian - Creates a character with good array of defensive and offensive options, but without the moment of clarity rage power, you can't really use both at once.
Bard - Good charisma synergy, but the bard is a caster.
Cleric - Full caster.
Druid - Full caster.
Fighter - Fighter could work if you took the Aldori swordlord variant, since most of the "cast in armor" abilities available steal your swift actions.
Monk - MOTHER OF MAD. If you're just using this for passive abilities it might work.
Paladin - Good Charisma synergy, good defensive options, full BAB. If you take the non-casting variant, it could work well, provided you can work inside the roleplaying restrictions. Also, smite is incredible now and works on weaponlike spells.
Ranger - Not terrible, but you've stated that you want to keep your wisdom relatively low.
Rogue - Rogue is always useful, due to passive class features, random talents, and the ability to do sneak attack damage with rays.
Sorcerer - Divide by 0
Wizard - Full caster.
Alchemist - Partial caster
Antipaladin - See Paladin, but give it spikier pauldrons.
Cavalier - This class leaves a bad taste in my mouth due to the reliance on a mount.
Inquisitor - Partial caster.
Magus - Partial caster.
Oracle - Full caster.
Summoner - Partial caster, but could work well if you focus on the Eidolon side of this class.
Witch - Full caster.

[NeoSeraphi]

I do really like the non-casting Paladin variant. I hope that we encounter evil creatures often enough to make it worthwhile. Smite Evil has indeed become amazing in Pathfinder, you were right.

I appreciate your suggestion and your comprehensive list. I will be going with a Lawful Good Human Paladin (Warrior of the Holy Light)//Sorcerer, though I still haven't decided on a good Bloodline yet.

While I'm on the subject, how is Pathfinder for items/spells/feats that increase caster level?

[subject42]

I appreciate your suggestion and your comprehensive list. I will be going with a Lawful Good Human Paladin (Warrior of the Holy Light)//Sorcerer, though I still haven't decided on a good Bloodline yet.

While I'm on the subject, how is Pathfinder for items/spells/feats that increase caster level?

As far as bloodlines go, it depends on your roleplay goals and your sorcerer style.

If you want to be a summoner, the Celestial Bloodline is awesome due to the DR granted by the bloodline arcana. You also eventually get free flight.

For Blastiness, draconic and elemental tend to work best. You get free flight here, as well.

Starsoul works well for battlefield control and debuffing.

If you want to mostly spend your time in melee, smashing faces, abyssal grants good bonus feats and eventually gives you an inherent Strength bonus. This has... rather demanding roleplay implications, though.


With regard to boosting caster level, it's a lot harder in PF than it was in 3.5.

[stack]

Synthesist summoner would let you dump your physical stats. You can then use evolutions for melee ability, armor, or whatever else you want. If nothing else, you get an armor boost and a big hitpoint reserve, for no cost to a sorcerer. Since you want non-casting, you could just ignore the summoner spells entirely and still be coming out ahead.

[McSmack]

There are a couple of archetypes in the APG which remove spellcasting from traditional casting classes. For Paladin's there's the Warrior of Holy Light or somesuch and for Rangers there's the Skirmisher. Either one of these would be good.


Skirmisher trades in ranger spellcasting for the ability to do certain tricks. Some of them are attack oriented and some of them are survival/movement oriented. Most of the attack ones would still be usable with spells that require attack rolls I believe.

Rogue or Swashbuckler rogue might also work well for you.

I was looking for a monk ability/feat that allowed them to replace Wis with Cha for most of their special abilities. I thought I'd read it somewhere, but now I can't find it.

[NeoSeraphi]

Alright, I've decided. I'm going to be a Draconic Sorcerer (3.5 flavor all the way) //Holy Warrior of Light Paladin. I appreciate all your comments and help.

[Larpus]

Well, I'm not sure if it's of your interest or not, but since you're going Dragon bloodline might as well at least give a look at the Dragon Disciple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/dragon-disciple) if you'd like to make a more physical Sorcerer, take a look, the class looks pretty nice now, actually.

[ericgrau]

While 7/10th casting makes it much more appealing for a gish than 3.5, dragon disciple is primarily a melee class. A caster can use it for... um... um... improved initiative as a bonus feat. Maybe hit points. Really he can't make much use of anything else.

FWIW I went with arcane blooded on my sorcerer. Higher save DCs on all the spells I'll be metamagicking anyway, and I can quicken. Mmm. The bonus spells aren't too shabby either. Not my first choices, but staple spells so they're almost always at least somewhat useful to have. For the draconic bloodline try draconic reservoir (level 3 spell) to not only avoid frying your allies but also give them a powerful buff. Get some cantrips or level 1 spell(s) to partially charge the reservoir before combat so your allies can use it even before you blast. Oh, and hey it's a dragon themed spell.

[Prime32]

So, the Pathfinder sorcerer. It's pretty amazing. I'm really impressed with how it doesn't have nineteen dead levels, like the 3.5 sorcerer.What you talkin' bout, Neo? You get 2-4 class features every level, and better than what most classes get. They're called spells. :smalltongue:

[NeoSeraphi]

What you talkin' bout, Neo? You get 2-4 class features every level, and better than what most classes get. They're called spells. :smalltongue:

True, but the Pathfinder sorcerer gets those too. I don't mind the 3.5 sorcerer, but the Pathfinder sorcerer is more flavorful and customizable.

[ericgrau]

Ya I was surprised that he called a familiar a class feature compared to those. Why not just say 20 dead levels? EDIT: Oh I see because it's a different and thus interesting useful option not b/c it's super powerful.

[NeoSeraphi]

Ya I was surprised that he called a familiar a class feature compared to those. Why not just say 20 dead levels? EDIT: Oh I see because it's a different and thus interesting useful option not b/c it's super powerful.

Hey, sorcerers have all the power they need. I'm not saying they don't. But the bloodlines DO make them more interesting, don't they?

[Curious]

If this thread isn't done, I have a suggestion. Use the Words of Power alternate spellcasting type, and spell points.
Links:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power

For mechanics, just ask your DM if he will allow your spell favoured class feature to count as an extra word instead.

Now, these two alternate systems together with your spontaneous spellcasting will give your magic a very primal, free-form feel which I think would be awesome. Just tossing the idea out there.

[Joshinthemosh]

For the bloodlines I'm a huge fan of the Draconic Bloodline. And the Arcane Bloodline. Oh the Arcane Bloodline http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/arcane-bloodline

As for the second side of the gesalt. I am a huge fan of high ACs and great saves so I suggest the following. Oracle with the Lore Mystery and the Sidestep Secret(from the APG)

Sidestep Secret (Su): Your innate understanding of the universe has granted you preternatural reflexes and the uncanny ability to step out of danger at the very last second. Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity.

And then Pallidian 2 for the whole Cha to all saves thing. Plus hit points. So many more hit points.

Build looks like

Sorcerer 1/Oracle 1: Cha to Reflex saves. Cha to AC instead of Dex. Kill those mad issues
Sorcerer 2/Palidian 1: Hit points hit points hit points
Sorcerer 3/Palidian 2: Cha to all saves. That's Cha to Reflex saves twice.

Profit