Mass effect 3: We fight and we Whine. That's the plan

[Opperhapsen]

Old thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194327)

So we came from Ashley's outfit, Vega looking stupid, and me not quite getting why Ashley was selected as a SPECTRE.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I have some objections to the thread title, namely, do we REALLY want to say that we whine here? Does that not make us look immature? :smalltongue:

[C-Lam]

Neh, maturity is overrated :smalltongue:

Also, since theres no Mass Effect 2 thread thats active, I guess this one serves as that too right?

Sooo..... I've been playing mass effect 2 for the first time and just finished Horizon. I'm starting ti get loyalty missions, but I have not done all lød the recruitment missions yet. Should I grab all the people first, or do all the loyalty missions available first? Or is it all the same?

[Liffguard]

Neh, maturity is overrated :smalltongue:

Also, since theres no Mass Effect 2 thread thats active, I guess this one serves as that too right?

Sooo..... I've been playing mass effect 2 for the first time and just finished Horizon. I'm starting ti get loyalty missions, but I have not done all lød the recruitment missions yet. Should I grab all the people first, or do all the loyalty missions available first? Or is it all the same?

Doesn't matter.

[Xondoure]

Neh, maturity is overrated :smalltongue:

Also, since theres no Mass Effect 2 thread thats active, I guess this one serves as that too right?

Sooo..... I've been playing mass effect 2 for the first time and just finished Horizon. I'm starting ti get loyalty missions, but I have not done all lød the recruitment missions yet. Should I grab all the people first, or do all the loyalty missions available first? Or is it all the same?

There will come a mainquest mission (reaper IFF) that will give you a choice when to complete it. Don't do it until you have everyone's loyalty (that you can/want depending on circumstance) Other than that order is irrelevent.

[Toastkart]

Sooo..... I've been playing mass effect 2 for the first time and just finished Horizon. I'm starting ti get loyalty missions, but I have not done all lød the recruitment missions yet. Should I grab all the people first, or do all the loyalty missions available first? Or is it all the same?

It really doesn't matter. It all depends on who you want with you on any given mission. Personally, I always get Tali first, then do side missions until the next story mission, then work on whatever.

On the subject of Ashley's appearance:

I don't have a problem with the new outfit, I think it looks pretty good. And I'm glad that she'll be keeping her armor for combat, and I hope that's an indication that other characters will also be getting combat/ noncombat outfits too. I don't really like the new hairstyle, it makes her look too much like Miranda. I actually really liked the pulled back look she sported before, because she made it look good.

On a more general note, I ordinarily don't get collector's/ special editions of games because more often than not the extras don't interest me for the cost. Me3, on the other hand, is seriously making me consider getting the collectors edition for the extra weapons and outfits.

[Worira]

So, uh, why'd you make the thread title something no one wanted? And Why did you Capitalize and punctuate It like This

[Name_Here]

I have some objections to the thread title, namely, do we REALLY want to say that we whine here? Does that not make us look immature? :smalltongue:

The day these Mass Effect threads stop looping back to the "I don't like the ammo system" I think that calling the threadgoers mature is a bit of a stretch.

As for the Ashley debate she is perfect for spectre status. She has the celebrity and clout from her time working with Shepard, outstanding fitness reports and she is trusted with highly sensitive missions where she will largely be on her own if things go ploin shaped.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Cross-posted from Old Thread:


I agree with this.


I'd also be a fan of "We're two threads in and the game hasn't even been released yet."

Opperhapsen: You forget that Ash also has an exemplary service record, and only ends up blacklisted because of Shanxi.
She volunteers for the dangerous work without hesitation on Virmire - and insists that you save Kaiden when the choice comes, which indicates a strong conviction to get the job done.
After Shepard's death, she continues to serve - and do so extremely well, to the point where she become's the Allaince's go-to girl with major problems - which brought her to Horizon and the confrontation there.
And she refuses to abandon her mission and go with Shepard. (That one seems important to me, in case you couldn't tell)

She's an excellent SPECTRE candidate, as is Garrus.

[Athaniar]

I agree, Ashley makes a fine Spectre. To comment on that pic (http://i56.tinypic.com/21cassj.jpg)... first, if we can kill off characters, Vega is first to go. Seriously, BioWare? Not only is he apparently very stereotyped, he looks plain ugly. No thank you. Also, Liara likes to cosplay as Samara. Good to know.

[chiasaur11]

Yup.

Unless Vega is voiced by Thomas Wilson, he's a dead man walking.

So, been reading all the spoilers I can get my grubby mitts on, and I gotta say, it's fun having a good guess at some of the lines that will be incredibly funny for a few weeks, then tremendously overused forever.

It's predicting the future, like Plumtree!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I agree, Ashley makes a fine Spectre. To comment on that pic (http://i56.tinypic.com/21cassj.jpg)... first, if we can kill off characters, Vega is first to go. Seriously, BioWare? Not only is he apparently very stereotyped, he looks plain ugly. No thank you.
We need more ugly people on the good guy side in video games. And no, aliens like Grunt and Mordin do not count, as they have their own unique handsomeness to them, Wrex has fangirls of his own if DeviantArt is to be believed, and Garrus and Tali are romantic interests now, forever cementing turians and quarians as "sexy-looking."

As a character from Jade Empire once said, "Ugly people need love too!"

[Xondoure]

Yeah but it looks like they were going for something rugged and manly and ended up with something thuggish and dull. Theres ugly and then theres uncanny valley.

Also, whats up with Kaidan's hair? Not sure I approve.

As for Liara, as long as there's still a blue outfit to put her in I couldn't care less about the red one.

[SDF]

Before ME2 came out Jack struck me as the stupidest thing ever. I ended up not minding her. I'm sure Vega will be much the same.

[Acanous]

Wait, we Fight and we Whine?
Well.. We could fight like a Krogan, Run like a Leopard... buuuut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeY-2ovpF9c)

Not too peeved about Kaidan's new look. Mostly because my shepard is male and I won't see him.

[chiasaur11]

Wait, we Fight and we Whine?
Well.. We could fight like a Krogan, Run like a Leopard... buuuut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeY-2ovpF9c)

Not too peeved about Kaidan's new look. Mostly because my shepard is male and I won't see him.

My Shepard isn't, and she won't see him either.

Ah, Virmire. Lot of pleasant memories.

[Dienekes]

People are really commenting on the desire to kill off Vega without knowing a thing beyond his appearance? Seems harsh.

As for Ash costume. I'm a fan of practicality. Part of what I liked about the first ME game was that we had Ash as the armored soldier who also happened to be a chick and not ohh look at the chick, oh also she's a soldier. If that makes sense to anyone. Really so long as she gets some armored outfit I'm fine, not like they're forcing her into a Jack suit with no other options.

[chiasaur11]

People are really commenting on the desire to kill off Vega without knowing a thing beyond his appearance? Seems harsh.


Well, we know at least one other thing about him.

He's the FNG*.

He has all the questions about SOP and suchlike.

"What the heck are those space squids attacking us?"

"So, wait, wait. How do Spectres operate again?"

"At my old school, they never pistolwhipped reporters!"

"Why did you just make him eat his own eyeballs?"

You know. Dumb stuff like that.


*friendless new guy.

[boj0]

I'm calling it right now: Vega will be the most hilarious, well-written, multi-dimensional character in a BioWare game.

He will be both terrible and refined, much like a dapper werewolf.

[Athaniar]

From what I've heard he is, basically, the standard minimum-personality shooter video game protagonist. Kaidan was already too much of that for me, and he was at least biotic.

[Callos_DeTerran]

To comment on that pic (http://i56.tinypic.com/21cassj.jpg)... first, if we can kill off characters, Vega is first to go. Seriously, BioWare? Not only is he apparently very stereotyped, he looks plain ugly. No thank you. Also, Liara likes to cosplay as Samara. Good to know.

...There's is just something downright unsettling about Vega. I don't know why, maybe it's just that picture of him and it won't be so bad in-game, I don't think I'll be taking Vega with me on most machines. I don't know about getting him killed off deliberately, but that face...

Also, maybe that head thingy is some kind of asari biotic amp? It'd make sense to see more asari who aren't undercover or trying to hide their villainous intentions with one of those then...and less sense that more don't have them anyway but still...

...I just noticed that if you buzzed the sides of Vega's head, he'd have the same haircut as Vega. Also, am I the only one anticipating Vega to be a humorous snarker who comments on all of the things that have become 'normal' for Commander Shepard?

"What did I do today? I went on a 'routine mission' with Commander Shepard, which means I fought a ten-story space cuttlefish with an assault rifle, shuffled through ancient prothean ruins that would have otherwise defined my career, and shot some mind-controlled human extremists from a black-ops organization that shouldn't exist. This job either sucks or kicks a** if this is routine."

[Avilan the Grey]

From what I've heard he is, basically, the standard minimum-personality shooter video game protagonist. Kaidan was already too much of that for me, and he was at least biotic.

I have no problem with Kaidan and never understood the hate. I do like Ashley BETTER, but I have a thing for sexy strong women with guns...

[Falgorn]

I have no problem with Kaidan and never understood the hate. I do like Ashley BETTER, but I have a thing for sexy strong women with guns...

This is basically how I feel. I think the main problem people have with him is that his character development occurred off-screen.

[ShinyRocks]

I've no problem with Kaidan. I mean, at least he's not Jacob.

[Illieas]

on a related and also unrelated note.

mass effect movie it is in the work. so much so they are having a panel at comic con to discuss it.

link (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/07/legendary-pictures-hosting-mass-effect-movie-panel-at-comic-con/)

for me I don't think it will be good. for one, i been hurt too many times on video game movies. if they are redoing the mass effect 1 plot. i don't think it will turn out. the banter in mass effect one is more lacking than other bioware games and the massive info dumps to make people understand the world won't work in movie form.

but rumor has it that it will be based on the first contact war. if this is the case i think it is the better move. as the characters in the movie will be learning along side the audience and so info dumps are easier to place in.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

My Shepard isn't, and she won't see him either.

Ah, Virmire. Lot of pleasant memories.

*reminisces*

Getting a hankering to play these games again, get a proper save file ready for 3.


I've no problem with Kaidan. I mean, at least he's not Jacob.


Kaidan was just bland. Not even that bland, I guess. Just completely overshadowed by every other character. I kinda feel bad for the chap, sometimes.

I actually liked Jacob better than Kaidan though, for one reason only: Renegade Femshep making him soooo adorably uncomfortable with her flirting. I laughed so much with those scenes.

[VanBuren]

This is basically how I feel. I think the main problem people have with him is that his character development occurred off-screen.


I've no problem with Kaidan. I mean, at least he's not Jacob.

See, people always complain about how you only pick up people with major baggage, but the minute you recruit someone who has already dealt with theirs...

"So, anything you'd like to talk about Jacob? Like how torn up you are over how your father was and how you're afraid you'll end up like him some day?"

"Nah, Shepard, I'm good. Whatever that thing was, my father died ten years ago. And I'm not him, I know who I am. Besides, even he couldn't screw up what he taught me."

"You know Jacob, you're a real buzzkill."

[Morty]

I liked Jacob's line when Shepard asked him if he needs help. "Either it's nothing serious, in which case there's no point, or something serious in which case your pseudo-therapy won't work." Or something along those lines; I played the Polish version of the game.

[Marnath]

I liked Kaidan. I don't get why people say he's dull. I almost always picked him, I mean Ashley is pretty cool but her attitude about the alien crew members really rubbed me the wrong way.



.

Also, whats up with Kaidan's hair? Not sure I approve.


What do you mean? His hair always looked like that. O.o

[Athaniar]

I have no problem with Kaidan and never understood the hate. I do like Ashley BETTER, but I have a thing for sexy strong women with guns...
I don't hate Kaidan, I just find him a bit... bland. I definitely agree with you on Ashley, though.

Also, I predict an eventual movie will be a disaster if they try to follow the games' storyline, just because it will inevitably non-canonize most players' choices. First Contact War is good, as is one of the books. Just not the games, please.

[Calemyr]

I will never understand all the Jacob/Kaiden hate. They give us one mentally and emotionally balanced character per game, one guy who is not driven by angst and enough psychological problems to fill a shrink's schedule, one guy who doesn't whine, doesn't chew the scenery at every opportunity, doesn't act like a clear and present danger to themselves and other, one guy who is nice, friendly, loyal, and, above all, competent. And they get dismissed as dull for their efforts.

ME2 has a few moderately balanced individuals (Mordin, Tali, and Kasumi, in my opinion, though all three have obsessions that dominate their lives), but Jacob is still a singular example of a simply good man.

Maybe it's just because I'm a guy and tend to play a male Shep, and I find it nice to have a good, solid pal who has my back and won't hold back his opinions. They might be dull romance options, but they make awesome friends.

By the way, is it just me, or does Vega look a bit like the Jack robots from the Tekken series?

[LordShotGun]

Pics of teammates. (http://i56.tinypic.com/21cassj.jpg)

I know Ashley looks different in this picture but I can't seem to place it. What is so different about here? Is it the hair?

Contrasted with this picture.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100105103948/masseffect/images/thumb/3/3c/Ashley_Character_Box.png/546px-Ashley_Character_Box.png (http://masseffect.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ashley_Williams&image=Ashley_Character_Box-png)

Edit: Upon further study it seems like they narrowed her concrete jaw into a more feminine chin as well as letting her hair down.

[Derthric]

For me I liked Jacob, he actually saluted you and you got the sense that he meant it every time he snapped one off.

I withhold judgement of Vega until the first time I meet him. His look does not inspire but we have no indication of his personality or style yet.

Looking over the videos released though it looks like the Normandy is without markings at all on her now. I am most curious about that.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

For me I liked Jacob, he actually saluted you and you got the sense that he meant it every time he snapped one off.

I withhold judgement of Vega until the first time I meet him. His look does not inspire but we have no indication of his personality or style yet.
Same here. I mean, I get that compared with the others, Jacob seems bland, but that's more due to the fact that he's being compared with much more exotic and occasionally quite damaged people. He's the sane, reasonable guy, and he's with you from the start. That's why he kind of fades into the background like he does. I'd be curious to see if anyone actually DID romance him. I'm thinking of doing that with my next FemShep just to mess with expectations.

And as for Vega, I need to see him in conversation first. He might be awesome or he might be a total jerk. We don't know yet. A picture's worth a thousand words, but this is a BioWare game. A thousand words is only the first paragraph. :smalltongue:

[Xondoure]

I know Ashley looks different in this picture but I can't seem to place it. What is so different about here?

I think its mostly the pose, but her nose looks off in the new pic.

[LadyMeyers]

Same here. I mean, I get that compared with the others, Jacob seems bland, but that's more due to the fact that he's being compared with much more exotic and occasionally quite damaged people. He's the sane, reasonable guy, and he's with you from the start. That's why he kind of fades into the background like he does. I'd be curious to see if anyone actually DID romance him. I'm thinking of doing that with my next FemShep just to mess with expectations.


For the sake of argument, I did play through the romance. And it was eye-rollingly bad with all the pick-up lines he spews whenever he talks to you. Twas bad (but to each his/her own, I guess).

[Fawkes]

When I played through as FemShep, I started the Jacob romance path, same as I did with Garrus. Jacob was so annoying I broke it off and sent him to die in the Collector Base. In the end I went crawling back to Liara. (garrus and I are just friends.)

[LadyMeyers]

When I played through as FemShep, I started the Jacob romance path, same as I did with Garrus. Jacob was so annoying I broke it off and sent him to die in the Collector Base. In the end I went crawling back to Liara. (garrus and I are just friends.)

Yeah, he sadly did not survive the suicide mission for me either. Couldn't stand the thought of having that mistake carry over into ME3.

[Dienekes]

On Kaidan/Jacob.

Kaidan I just thought was bland. Not the worst companion in ME1 by any means (sorry it's Liara, I might get hated on for this but she sounded so forced with every bit of dialogue she had) but if I had to pick between him and Ash it would be like choosing between spinach and cake.

Jacob, well he's Cerberus so that instantly put him on the wrong foot. I don't think he's that bad of a character actually, better than Jacob, but he has a lot to go up against. Space Batman, the very model of a scientist Salarian, and so on that he just sort of gets left behind. So when it came down to sacrificing a character in my core playthrough he was the obvious choice.

Also: Gravity is a mean mother. I hate that line. It annoys me.

[Zevox]

I think its mostly the pose, but her nose looks off in the new pic.
Yeah, I'm getting that too. Maybe it's just the angle, but in the new picture it almost looks like the Elven noses from DA2.

Also, it may just be the bad lighting she was almost always in when you got a good close-up of her in ME1, but I think her skin seems a shade or two lighter.

Zevox

[Athaniar]

I did make sure I saved all team members in ME2, though, even the ones I didn't really like all that much, so if this Vega turns out to be somewhat useful he might have a chance to survive.
I still think Vega from Street Fighter would be a better squadmate, but what can you do.

[Dragor]

Pics of teammates. (http://i56.tinypic.com/21cassj.jpg)

I know Ashley looks different in this picture but I can't seem to place it. What is so different about here? Is it the hair?

Contrasted with this picture.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100105103948/masseffect/images/thumb/3/3c/Ashley_Character_Box.png/546px-Ashley_Character_Box.png (http://masseffect.wikia.com/index.php?title=Ashley_Williams&image=Ashley_Character_Box-png)

Edit: Upon further study it seems like they narrowed her concrete jaw into a more feminine chin as well as letting her hair down.

That picture of Ashley just slapped me in the face and told me how unique-looking she was for a female character in any game. Now, I love Ashley normally, but damn. Now it just makes me more annoyed at how they've seen fit to make her more 'feminine' to fit a Miranda-sized hole. God dammit, BioWare.

[Athaniar]

They did say she still has her armor, and if she has the same wonderful personality I don't care much about her hairstyle.

[ShinyRocks]

It looks like they've changed the slant of her eyes, too.

[Marnath]

That picture of Ashley just slapped me in the face and told me how unique-looking she was for a female character in any game. Now, I love Ashley normally, but damn. Now it just makes me more annoyed at how they've seen fit to make her more 'feminine' to fit a Miranda-sized hole. God dammit, BioWare.

To be fair, the way she wore her hair was a military thing, now that she's a spectre she probably wears it the way she likes it. I don't find it hard to believe that she would choose a bit more feminine style on her own time.

[Dragor]

To be fair, the way she wore her hair was a military thing, now that she's a spectre she probably wears it the way she likes it. I don't find it hard to believe that she would choose a bit more feminine style on her own time.

But Ash is die-hard military; even when she's on the Normandy in ME1, within which usual military protocols were quite lax, she still uses military lingo and keeps her hair military, etc. She doesn't seem to be the type to simply let that go when she becomes a Spectre; if anything, she's in an even more prestigious position and needs to be 'professional'. That's just my take, though. I just see it as out-of-character, and we all can't deny it's to be make Ashley 'more appealing', in-universe explanation or not.

[Thanatos 51-50]

But Ash is die-hard military; even when she's on the Normandy in ME1, within which usual military protocols were quite lax, she still uses military lingo and keeps her hair military, etc.

You're, of course, forgetting the fact that she was still in-uniform and speaking to her Commanding Officer, whereas she... she's just a Gunnery Chief. She's a respected and high-ranking Enlisted woman (At least, Commander Shepard respects her), but she's not the Petty Officer In Charge. She's not the Command Master Chief. At best, she's the division head of the Marine contingent aboard the Normandy, and, while that entitles you to being on good terms with the CO, it doesn't entitle her to throw the uniform and demeanor regulations away.

This, of course, is why Kaiden is seen as so "Bland". He's just not as boisterous as Ash and has to deal with the same regs.
The fact that he makes goo-goo eyes at Shep too is just creepy. Especially with ManShep.

[thorgrim29]

Well, unlike RenShep, SPECTREs aren't just blunt objects, maybe she wears her hair that way to blend in better in a crowd or something.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Well, unlike RenShep, SPECTREs aren't just blunt objects, maybe she wears her hair that way to blend in better in a crowd or something.

I'd put my money on "Probably". That's also why she "Probably" wears the jacket outfit, too.

[Marnath]

You're, of course, forgetting the fact that she was still in-uniform and speaking to her Commanding Officer, whereas she... she's just a Gunnery Chief. She's a respected and high-ranking Enlisted woman (At least, Commander Shepard respects her), but she's not the Petty Officer In Charge. She's not the Command Master Chief. At best, she's the division head of the Marine contingent aboard the Normandy, and, while that entitles you to being on good terms with the CO, it doesn't entitle her to throw the uniform and demeanor regulations away.

Exactly. The one time you catch her off duty is when she's talking to her sister over the comlink and she sure sounds casual then, or at least until she notices that you're standing right there.:smalltongue:


This, of course, is why Kaiden is seen as so "Bland". He's just not as boisterous as Ash and has to deal with the same regs.
The fact that he makes goo-goo eyes at Shep too is just creepy. Especially with ManShep.

I noticed that too, but I always assumed it was just the way his face looks, and not that he's actually making goo-goo eyes at you.

[Liffguard]

At best, she's the division head of the Marine contingent aboard the Normandy,

I'm probably putting way too much thought into this, more than the dev team probably, but I'd say it's far more likely that Kaidan was in command of the marine detachment and Ashley was his NCO.

[Dragor]

You're, of course, forgetting the fact that she was still in-uniform and speaking to her Commanding Officer, whereas she... she's just a Gunnery Chief. She's a respected and high-ranking Enlisted woman (At least, Commander Shepard respects her), but she's not the Petty Officer In Charge. She's not the Command Master Chief. At best, she's the division head of the Marine contingent aboard the Normandy, and, while that entitles you to being on good terms with the CO, it doesn't entitle her to throw the uniform and demeanor regulations away.

This, of course, is why Kaiden is seen as so "Bland". He's just not as boisterous as Ash and has to deal with the same regs.
The fact that he makes goo-goo eyes at Shep too is just creepy. Especially with ManShep.

This is totally true, but it's not like the Normandy was conventional; flooded with non-humans, chasing a 'myth', that sort of thing. Shep never enforced the military attitude. I might be straying from my original point- that Ash is born into military, and lives it much more than the rest of the crew. I'd say that that hardcore military attitude would definitely carry over into her Spectre career. But maybe I'm just dragging this argument because I hate the new look. :smalltongue: My point is quite weak.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I'm probably putting way too much thought into this, more than the dev team probably, but I'd say it's far more likely that Kaidan was in command of the marine detachment and Ashley was his NCO.

Sorry, misunderstanding, there.
The Enlisted head of the detachment. Kaiden would be a Divisonal Officer.

And, because it's the type of thing I do:
Technically, Corporal Jenkins - That guy who died in the first fight? Remember him? Yeah. NCO.

[Athaniar]

An article (http://www.newsarama.com/games/10-must-know-facts-mass-effect-novels-comics-mass-effect-3-110707-1.html) linked from the official site that tells about stuff you need to know from the books and comics. If you haven't read them (and don't care much about spoilers), by all means read it.

[Cristo Meyers]

An article (http://www.newsarama.com/games/10-must-know-facts-mass-effect-novels-comics-mass-effect-3-110707-1.html) linked from the official site that tells about stuff you need to know from the books and comics. If you haven't read them (and don't care much about spoilers), by all means read it.

I'm sure it wasn't their intent, but number 10 may as well have said "And there's this woman running around with the last name Sue..."

[Demon 997]

Is the Deluxe of edition of ME2 worth the additional cost, or should I just get the standard edition?

[Athaniar]

I'm likely going to get the Collector's Edition, anyway. Lots of cool stuff.

And Kahlee never struck me as that big of a Mary Sue, to be honest. I hope she shows up in 3. Also, Kai Leng confirmed? Where is that said?

[KillianHawkeye]

You should probably change the title of this thread to "Mass Effect 3 Thread II" or similar, so that people such as myself won't think that it's the third thread for the original Mass Effect game.

Thank you.

[Philistine]

I liked Kaidan. I don't get why people say he's dull. I almost always picked him, I mean Ashley is pretty cool but her attitude about the alien crew members really rubbed me the wrong way.
What, because she once pointed out that having foreign nationals crawling all over the Alliance's brand-new, top-of-the-line prototype warship - perhaps the most technologically advanced ship in known space! - is a security risk? That sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing she should be bringing with her CO. I'd also note that she drops the matter as soon as said CO tells her it's under control.


I know Ashley looks different in this picture but I can't seem to place it. What is so different about here? Is it the hair?


Edit: Upon further study it seems like they narrowed her concrete jaw into a more feminine chin as well as letting her hair down.
Looking at these two images (which are from similar angles and appear to show similar expressions) side-by-side... http://images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/d/d1/Ashley8.png and http://images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/a/a2/Ashley_ME3_Character_Shot.png... it seems to me that there are a lot of changes to the model besides the hair. The eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth, and jaw all look different.

And yeah, the ME3 pic has her looking paler than I ever recall seeing her in the first game.

[Marnath]

What, because she once pointed out that having foreign nationals crawling all over the Alliance's brand-new, top-of-the-line prototype warship - perhaps the most technologically advanced ship in known space! - is a security risk? That sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing she should be bringing with her CO. I'd also note that she drops the matter as soon as said CO tells her it's under control.


I was thinking more about the fact that she comes right out and admits that she feels aliens can't be trusted because they'll just betray us the first time it's convenient...

[Thanatos 51-50]

What, because she once pointed out that having foreign nationals crawling all over the Alliance's brand-new, top-of-the-line prototype warship - perhaps the most technologically advanced ship in known space! - is a security risk? That sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing she should be bringing with her CO. I'd also note that she drops the matter as soon as said CO tells her it's under control.


Looking at these two images (which are from similar angles and appear to show similar expressions) side-by-side... http://images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/d/d1/Ashley8.png and http://images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/a/a2/Ashley_ME3_Character_Shot.png... it seems to me that there are a lot of changes to the model besides the hair. The eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth, and jaw all look different.

And yeah, the ME3 pic has her looking paler than I ever recall seeing her in the first game.

Looks like a bunch of make-up to me? I may be wrong.

[chiasaur11]

One thing to remember is that ME1 had awful lighting on the Normandy.

[VanBuren]

I was thinking more about the fact that she comes right out and admits that she feels aliens can't be trusted because they'll just betray us the first time it's convenient...

That's not actually what she says though. The basic idea she's trying to get across is that, while diplomacy is nice and all, we'll never be more than the second greatest concern to them. If it comes down to saving us or saving themselves, they're going to pick themselves every single time.

[Xondoure]

That's not actually what she says though. The basic idea she's trying to get across is that, while diplomacy is nice and all, we'll never be more than the second greatest concern to them. If it comes down to saving us or saving themselves, they're going to pick themselves every single time.

To which the counterpoint is its going to come down to everyone surviving or no one. Unless you agree with her but then you probably left the council to die.

[VanBuren]

To which the counterpoint is its going to come down to everyone surviving or no one. Unless you agree with her but then you probably left the council to die.

A counterpoint which really doesn't work in all situations regarding other species.

And I most certainly did... in some of my playthroughs.

[Dienekes]

To which the counterpoint is its going to come down to everyone surviving or no one. Unless you agree with her but then you probably left the council to die.

Which isn't the same situation that Ash is describing. I do feel that most individuals look after their own. They will if given the option save what they feel is more similar and familiar to them rather than the outsider.

This doesn't mean that you won't sacrifice for the outsider from time to time, just that it's far less likely. And my first playthrough I did let the Council die. Tactically it's the smarter decision, you don't know how much these Reapers can take and Sovereign needs to be destroyed before the gate can open. Unfortunately then I found out that the game ends the same way no matter which decision you choose in that regard and my way only meant I didn't get to see the air quotes.

[Cristo Meyers]

And Kahlee never struck me as that big of a Mary Sue, to be honest. I hope she shows up in 3. Also, Kai Leng confirmed? Where is that said?

I couldn't say either way, never read any of the books, and I wasn't trying to actually call her one. But, since I haven't read them, reading that section just sounded a lot like that one player describing all the ultra-cool! stuff their character can do.


And I most certainly did... in some of my playthroughs.

Letting them die has always been my default choice. Aside from my belief that the Council is little more than a cool-kids clique who's only justification for holding so much power is "We were here first" and who's sole purpose is to maintain the status quo (read: the Council in power), I have a hard time justifying the risk of desperately-needed reinforcements for the sake of three politicians.

[Avilan the Grey]

Letting them die has always been my default choice. Aside from my belief that the Council is little more than a cool-kids clique who's only justification for holding so much power is "We were here first" and who's sole purpose is to maintain the status quo (read: the Council in power), I have a hard time justifying the risk of desperately-needed reinforcements for the sake of three politicians.

You also kill 10 000 Asari by not saving the council, which is far more than the humans who die. To me the obvious choice even for my renegade characters has been to save them (but I never play a 100% pure renegade anyway).

[Cristo Meyers]

You also kill 10 000 Asari by not saving the council, which is far more than the humans who die. To me the obvious choice even for my renegade characters has been to save them (but I never play a 100% pure renegade anyway).

They're military personnel. To be blunt, they knew the risks.

[Worira]

Well, it's never made especially clear just how gigantic the crew of the Destiny Ascension is, and besides, if you had failed to destroy Sovereign, it would have resulted in infinitybajillion deaths.

[Fawkes]

Well, it's never made especially clear just how gigantic the crew of the Destiny Ascension is,

Not until after they die, anyway.

My beef with that choice is there's no neutral option. Either you sacrifice a bunch of humans to save the Ascension, or you let it die and make a new council without any of those three species. Why is there no option to have new Asari, Turian, and Salarian councilors? It's either "Help the jerks who got in your way the whole time" or "take their entire species out of power".

[Androgeus]

"Help the jerks who got in your way the whole time"

The whole time? Don't they only hinder you when you're trying to convict Saren?

[Liffguard]

Not until after they die, anyway.

My beef with that choice is there's no neutral option. Either you sacrifice a bunch of humans to save the Ascension, or you let it die and make a new council without any of those three species. Why is there no option to have new Asari, Turian, and Salarian councilors? It's either "Help the jerks who got in your way the whole time" or "take their entire species out of power".

There is. The three options are:
1) Save the council
2) Let the council die and replace it with a new four-species council with a human chairing.
3) Let the council die and replace it with an all-human council.

[Zevox]

So, for some reason I decided to start up another file in Mass Effect now (rather than proceed with my backlog of unplayed games...). And yeah, I'm pretty convinced that Ashley's skin definitely looks several shades darker in ME1 than in those ME3 screenshots. Even in the better lighting on the Citadel her skin is more of a latina shade (definitely noticeably darker than Kaidan's, something I can't say for the ME3 screenshot), and in the poor lighting of the Normandy she looks only a little lighter than my current Shepard, who has the darkest skin color available (I'm basing this one on John Stewart - the Green Lantern, not the comedian).

Zevox

[Fawkes]

There is. The three options are:
1) Save the council
2) Let the council die and replace it with a new four-species council with a human chairing.
3) Let the council die and replace it with an all-human council.

Those four species, though? Not Turian, Asari, or Salarian, by the indication of all the aliens that hated my ParaSoldier in ME2.

[Liffguard]

Those four species, though? Not Turian, Asari, or Salarian, by the indication of all the aliens that hated my ParaSoldier in ME2.

I'm pretty sure they are. We don't see them face-to-face in ME2 but I'm pretty sure that the council was reformed with new Turian, Asari and Salarian councilors, plus either Anderson or Udina as head of the council.

[Fawkes]

I'm pretty sure they are. We don't see them face-to-face in ME2 but I'm pretty sure that the council was reformed with new Turian, Asari and Salarian councilors, plus either Anderson and Udina as head of the council.

Well then all the reaction dialogue from aliens is the same whether you form a new council or place humanity as a supreme dictatorship over the rest universe.

And that's terrible.

[chiasaur11]

They're military personnel. To be blunt, they knew the risks.

So did the 2,500 Alliance soldiers who die if you pick the alternative.

[Cristo Meyers]

So did the 2,500 Alliance soldiers who die if you pick the alternative.

And when the stakes are literally "fail and everyone dies," I'd throw more than that into the fire.

[Philistine]

Looks like a bunch of make-up to me? I may be wrong.

Maybe, but several of those changes are really unsubtle - facial features having radically different shapes isn't usually something I think of as a makeup effect (well, unless we're talking about silicone prosthetics a la BtVS or ST). Compared to the ME1 pic, the ME3 pic has Ash's eyebrows arched instead of angled; inverted the eye shape; radically different in size, shape, and position for the nose; a different mouth shape; and different jaw structure.

[thorgrim29]

Well, considering what happened to the elves and the qunari in dragon age II I'd say a few minor feature changes aren't too bad.

[VanBuren]

Well, considering what happened to the elves and the qunari in dragon age II I'd say a few minor feature changes aren't too bad.

Technically nothing happened to the Qunari. We just never saw the horned ones.

[Philistine]

Well, considering what happened to the elves and the qunari in dragon age II I'd say a few minor feature changes aren't too bad.

Funny, I didn't notice any changes to elves and qunari between Origins and Awakenings.

[Zevox]

Well, considering what happened to the elves and the qunari in dragon age II I'd say a few minor feature changes aren't too bad.
That made sense though - Dragon Age 2 adopted a different, more stylized art style compared to its predecessor. Basically everything changed its look to some degree or another. No such thing is happening in Mass Effect 3, so there's no reason why Ashley should look as different as she does.

Zevox

[Liffguard]

I'm honestly not seeing most of these differences aside from the nose and possibly the skin tone. Jaw looks the same to me. Eyes maybe a little different but that could just be the angle of the shot.

[GenericGuy]

I’m not a fan of the redesign of Ashley, she does look a lot like Miranda now, and the several shades lighter skin has some unfortunate implications.

Anyways the character I couldn’t stand in all of the Mass Effect Universe was Jack, personally her character seems way out place in the universe, and always came across as something a pre-teen fanfic writer would create.

I also think Garrus is way over rated, I never disliked him but never understood why others like him so much.

[Grif]

I’m not a fan of the redesign of Ashley, she does look a lot like Miranda now, and the several shades lighter skin has some unfortunate implications.

Anyways the character I couldn’t stand in all of the Mass Effect Universe was Jack, personally her character seems way out place in the universe, and always came across as something a pre-teen fanfic writer would create.

I also think Garrus is way over rated, I never disliked him but never understood why others like him so much.

Garrus has his calibrations. :smalltongue:

Yeah, Jack stuck out like a sore thumb for me in ME2. Her character bugged to me so much until I was seriously considering letting her die in my paragon Shep playthrough. Then I realised I would miss the bonus ending and so reluctantly let her live. (Even then, I rarely, if ever took Jack on missions. Even if her powers were handy. On the other hand, I would take Kasumi along for lulz.)

[GenericGuy]

Garrus has his calibrations. :smalltongue:

Yeah, Jack stuck out like a sore thumb for me in ME2. Her character bugged to me so much until I was seriously considering letting her die in my paragon Shep playthrough. Then I realised I would miss the bonus ending and so reluctantly let her live. (Even then, I rarely, if ever took Jack on missions. Even if her powers were handy. On the other hand, I would take Kasumi along for lulz.)

I have three distinct Shepards, one of whom is a bald black woman who is a merciless renegade; I like to think she let Jack die for stealing her haircut.:smalltongue:

[Dienekes]

Anyways the character I couldn’t stand in all of the Mass Effect Universe was Jack, personally her character seems way out place in the universe, and always came across as something a pre-teen fanfic writer would create.

Morinth. That is all.

[GenericGuy]

Morinth. That is all.

Meh you weren’t forced to recruit Morinth, you can’t fight the Collectors on the colony with Ashley/Kaiden until Jack is recruited. It obvious Jack was someone on the staffs pet, given how much more dialogue compared to other character she gets and the effort in her design that was made.

[VanBuren]

Meh you weren’t forced to recruit Morinth, you can’t fight the Collectors on the colony with Ashley/Kaiden until Jack is recruited. It obvious Jack was someone on the staffs pet, given how much more dialogue compared to other character she gets and the effort in her design that was made.

Well, when you want to tackle the issue of severe psychological trauma... you really can't do a piss poor job of it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Meh you weren’t forced to recruit Morinth, you can’t fight the Collectors on the colony with Ashley/Kaiden until Jack is recruited. It obvious Jack was someone on the staffs pet, given how much more dialogue compared to other character she gets and the effort in her design that was made.

There's a reason OOC that your forced to recruit Jack though, that being the developers want to ensure that (barring not picking up upgrades) you'll have at least one correct choice for the barrier task. Note that you can head to the Collector Base without picking up Samara and as long as you pick up...I forget which ship enhancement it is, but then you'll have at least one safe choice if you're paying attention.

And what VanBuren said.

[GenericGuy]

Well, when you want to tackle the issue of severe psychological trauma... you really can't do a piss poor job of it.

Sure you can, put it in the most ridicules clothes that objectify it sexually, give the personality and mouth of a twelve year old, and spend the rest of the game lovingly telling us how badass, awesome, and “deep” said deficient is.

[VanBuren]

Sure you can, put it in the most ridicules clothes that objectify it sexually, give the personality and mouth of a twelve year old, and spend the rest of the game lovingly telling us how badass, awesome, and “deep” said deficient is.

Right, because it's not like any of those things have an actual and legitimate basis in real psychology.

No, hold on. I have that backwards.

[Avilan the Grey]

I’m not a fan of the redesign of Ashley, she does look a lot like Miranda now, and the several shades lighter skin has some unfortunate implications.

Anyways the character I couldn’t stand in all of the Mass Effect Universe was Jack, personally her character seems way out place in the universe, and always came across as something a pre-teen fanfic writer would create.

I also think Garrus is way over rated, I never disliked him but never understood why others like him so much.

Funny I disagree on all accounts:

"New Ashley" looks NOTHING like Miranda; I have been staring at pictures for a long time and see zero similarities.
Unfortunate implications? Sorry but LOLWUT? Seriously, first of all... Ashley is not exactly dark skinned to begin with. Second... Depending on lightsource and placement... remember how ugly Shepard looks waking up in the sickbay at the start of ME2? The light in that entire base messes up the skin tone of all characters, and the first room after getting off the shuttle is even worse. You can't really tell how your character looks like until you get to Normandy.

Jack is one of my favorite characters in the ME universe. Can you explain your two statements about her, because I am curious? I don't get that at all from her. She is the best written character in ME or ME2, with the most interesting backstory and character development in the game(s). Her character model is also extremely well designed.


Right, because it's not like any of those things have an actual and legitimate basis in real psychology.

No, hold on. I have that backwards.

QFT, as they say.

[Somebloke]

Hey, I liked Jack. Her characterization made perfect sense to me.

[Xondoure]

Jack just felt like she had no business here. This is a mission to save all of humanity, so shape up soldier.

Not that my para shep didn't try to help her with her issues but then she thought I was hitting on her. And because the game is dumb even after I told her I wasn't interested she still acted like I was. I get what they were trying to accomplish with the romance but why can't friendship every be a developed option and not just the first three conversations? That and the getting off on killing people really did her in for me. Grunt's a krogan, he doesn't get a pass but I know he'll only shoot where I point him. Jack...

[Athaniar]

My Paragon-ish (Paragade?) main would have preferred not to go anywhere near Jack. Or Cerberus, for that matter. My über-Renegade, on the other hand, turned her into his apprentice Darth Zero, but he does stuff like that.
Lightsabers for Vanguard melee attack, please?

[Avilan the Grey]

Jack just felt like she had no business here. This is a mission to save all of humanity, so shape up soldier.

Yes, because the ragtag band of misfits has never been used before...

Anyway, I only romance her with paragon Shepards, since well, they are the only ones that would care enough for her to try.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Regarding the Save/Kill theCouncil decision:
I decided I needed more guns on the line when fighting Sovereign right the hell NOW. I don't know when or for how long he'll be vulnerable and I'll need somebody to kill it the moment it's possible. More guns on the line means more shots taken at any given moment, which means a greater chance of success.

And, well - the Destiny Ascension has the biggest gun on the line, keeping that gun in the fight is tactically a smarter decision.

Regarding Jack:
Morinth is many, many flavours worse in the "emo pre-teen" category.
Jack is... understandable. Hell, I even get the ido-dialect, massive amounts of tattoos, haircut and psychopathy. Shep can help with the psycho. It's what ParaShep does.
I don't get why the woman doesn't wear a bloody shirt. I jumped at the chance to buy a DLC that would have her put a shirt on. Before that, I completed her loyalty mission the moment it was available in the blind hope that she got a shirt.

[Liffguard]

Yes, because the ragtag band of misfits has never been used before...

Yeah, but the other misfits were all at least experienced professionals (Grunt excluded) who could be relied on to an extent. They've all got baggage but are at least rational and relatable to a degree that Jack isn't. Her behaviour is fairly believable considering her backstory but that doesn't explain why Shepard or TIM would want her on the team.

As for the saving the council question, I don't really think there's a right answer. You can make fairly decent tactical arguments either way. I like that the question is ambiguous enough to make for decent discussion with no obviously correct way to do it.

[Somebloke]

Yeah, but the other misfits were all at least experienced professionals (Grunt excluded) who could be relied on to an extent. They've all got baggage but are at least rational and relatable to a degree that Jack isn't.

Jack pretty much had a serious rep as a very, very dangerous woman- the prison guard more or less stated that she was the most dangerous prisoner in the most hardened prison in the galaxy. She was the sort of person you pointed at the enemy and then sat back to watch the fireworks.

As pointed out before, hiring very dangerous criminals to go on dangerous missions is pretty much a fiction staple.

[thorgrim29]

It doesn't help that every time I took her out on a mission she proceeded to die horribly and repeatedly. But them maybe that's just me, I always took Miranda and either Garrus, Thane or Legion out on missions, so when party members charge and die it's a surprise.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Her behaviour is fairly believable considering her backstory but that doesn't explain why Shepard or TIM would want her on the team.

Because she is the most powerful human biotic, at least equivalent in power to a notably powerful member of a naturally biotic race known for their extreme biotic power. :smallconfused: I'm honestly confused about why this is so hard to understand apparently, except that people might be looking too much into the mechanics of the game. And, fair enough, if you are then Jack doesn't seem that impressive at all except for having Warp Ammo, which is fairly awesome to use and also fairly unique in the context of the setting. But Jack got hit hardest by 'Cutscene-Power-to-the-Max' which is, by all accounts, a more accurate display of her power....in which she totaled three YMIR mechs and escaped/destroyed the hardest prison in the galaxy with only a little help and no weapons but her brain.

Yeah, I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want Jack on Shep's team. She's loyal, in her own way (she wants the Cerberus files first and then, after Pragia, because she's genuinely loyal to Shepard), powerful as heck, and makes for a very solid reminder that you've got perhaps every 'decent' person in Cerberus in your ship and the rest are the merciless mad-scientists with death wishes you remember from Mass Effect 1.

[Dienekes]

Yeah, I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want Jack on Shep's team. She's loyal, in her own way (she wants the Cerberus files first and then, after Pragia, because she's genuinely loyal to Shepard), powerful as heck, and makes for a very solid reminder that you've got perhaps every 'decent' person in Cerberus in your ship and the rest are the merciless mad-scientists with death wishes you remember from Mass Effect 1.

Oh I find it pretty easy to see why you wouldn't want her on your team. You have to remember that to go on all you have is the original dossiers and maybe a background check.

Jack's background pretty much involves meeting up with various pieces of underworld scum and then slaughtering all of them, along with numerous innocents. Without further detail of her personality and background (which you can only get once you have her) I can definitely see why I personally and my Shep would not want her anywhere near my ship.

Even when you get to know her she claims to kill an entire cult because they were just using her... which is exactly what Shep plans to do with her. Unless pointing her toward the Collectors and hoping she doesn't suffer a mental breakdown in a mission where she will most likely die does not constitute using her to you. To me it rather does, anyway.

That said I like Jack, she is an interesting character. But yeah, wouldn't want my life depending on her in any circumstance.

[Liffguard]

Because she is the most powerful human biotic, at least equivalent in power to a notably powerful member of a naturally biotic race known for their extreme biotic power. :smallconfused: I'm honestly confused about why this is so hard to understand apparently, except that people might be looking too much into the mechanics of the game. And, fair enough, if you are then Jack doesn't seem that impressive at all except for having Warp Ammo, which is fairly awesome to use and also fairly unique in the context of the setting. But Jack got hit hardest by 'Cutscene-Power-to-the-Max' which is, by all accounts, a more accurate display of her power....in which she totaled three YMIR mechs and escaped/destroyed the hardest prison in the galaxy with only a little help and no weapons but her brain.

Yeah, I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want Jack on Shep's team. She's loyal, in her own way (she wants the Cerberus files first and then, after Pragia, because she's genuinely loyal to Shepard), powerful as heck, and makes for a very solid reminder that you've got perhaps every 'decent' person in Cerberus in your ship and the rest are the merciless mad-scientists with death wishes you remember from Mass Effect 1.

Jack does get a lot of development as the game goes on but you are aware of none of that when you are recruiting her. At first all you know of her is that she's a dangerous, psychopathic criminal. Her power seems more of a liability than an advantage given how unstable she is.

It's probably just because I'm coming at this from a military perspective, but power alone is worse-than-useless without responsibility, discipline and teamwork. Back in training we always made sure that the biggest ****-ups never got their hands on the biggest guns.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Jack does get a lot of development as the game goes on but you are aware of none of that when you are recruiting her. At first all you know of her is that she's a dangerous, psychopathic criminal. Her power seems more of a liability than an advantage given how unstable she is.

Actually, it's worth pointing out that you don't know she's a psychopath until you free her either. You know she's dangerous and a criminal. Then, right before recruiting her, you find out that she hates Cerberus and is willing to work for you if you give her intel. That actually puts her one step above Zaeed who works for money and doesn't even REALLY have 'hates Cerberus' as a redeeming quality.

...Then you find out she's nuttier then a fruit cake and gets off on killing people.

[Thanatos 51-50]

'hates Cerberus' as a redeeming quality.

Cerberus. If you hate us, put it on your resume.
It'll make people hire you.

[VanBuren]

Actually, it's worth pointing out that you don't know she's a psychopath until you free her either. You know she's dangerous and a criminal. Then, right before recruiting her, you find out that she hates Cerberus and is willing to work for you if you give her intel. That actually puts her one step above Zaeed who works for money and doesn't even REALLY have 'hates Cerberus' as a redeeming quality.

...Then you find out she's nuttier then a fruit cake and gets off on killing people.

Seriously, what are Zaeed's benefits again? He's basically Shepard with all the good parts of Shepard gone. Except that you wouldn't need to Lazarus him because sheer hatred would keep him alive. So he's like a lesser Shepard you get for having a coupon.

[ShinyRocks]

I have three distinct Shepards, one of whom is a bald black woman who is a merciless renegade; I like to think she let Jack die for stealing her haircut.:smalltongue:

Heh. My bald black woman Shepard is full Paragon. Though she sometimes takes renegade interrupts because, you know, who doesn't?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Seriously, what are Zaeed's benefits again? He's basically Shepard with all the good parts of Shepard gone. Except that you wouldn't need to Lazarus him because sheer hatred would keep him alive. So he's like a lesser Shepard you get for having a coupon.

I'm not a Zaeed fan, either.
He jus tries much, much too hard. Like he read too much Badass Weekly as a child and really, really treis to emulate the stories therein.

I can never get him to die in a fire, though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm not a Zaeed fan, either.
He jus tries much, much too hard. Like he read too much Badass Weekly as a child and really, really treis to emulate the stories therein.

I can never get him to die in a fire, though.
You have to do it AFTER the Suicide Mission.

[Zevox]

I don't get why the woman doesn't wear a bloody shirt.
In short: she's arrogant. *loyalty mission spoilers*
As you find out on her loyalty mission, she is extremely attached to the idea that, for all that she suffered in the experimenting, at least she got the worst of it, and her escape proves that she is the toughest there is. She latched onto that image of herself as an incredible hardass, and her appearance reflects that - the tattoos, the shaved head, the lack of armor or even much clothing in spite of how much danger she routinely gets herself into. She flaunts her belief in her own badassness, basically.

This is why she reacts the way she does when you start uncovering evidence that the other children in those experiments actually had it worse, and she was kept sheltered in order to make sure she wouldn't die - if that's true, a very fundamental part of her self-image is undermined at its root, and that thought horrifies her. Which is perhaps why, without DLC, she only gets a shirt after going through her loyalty mission and being forced to confront that.
Yeah, I know, the spoiler box was almost surely unnecessary. Guess I'm being excessively cautious today.

Zevox

[Liffguard]

Seriously, what are Zaeed's benefits again? He's basically Shepard with all the good parts of Shepard gone. Except that you wouldn't need to Lazarus him because sheer hatred would keep him alive. So he's like a lesser Shepard you get for having a coupon.

He's a mercenary. He works for money. He's not really trustworthy, but he's a professional and you know where you stand with him.

[Avilan the Grey]

He's a mercenary. He works for money. He's not really trustworthy, but he's a professional and you know where you stand with him.

He's an arse (British spelling for British character...). He is incompetent (as a leader), arrogant and bloodthirsty.

[James the Dark]

Seriously, what are Zaeed's benefits again?

As far as I can tell, having him as part of the Hold The Line group can save somebody's life, especially if you didn't send back Tali or Mordin (who have a value of 1), and bring Garrus and Grunt (Value 4) to fight the Big Ugly. Since high values prevent people getting offed in the background despite loyalty, having a loyal Zaeed prevents a useful if fragile person from getting Collector'd.

[Avilan the Grey]

As far as I can tell, having him as part of the Hold The Line group can save somebody's life, especially if you didn't send back Tali or Mordin (who have a value of 1), and bring Garrus and Grunt (Value 4) to fight the Big Ugly. Since high values prevent people getting offed in the background despite loyalty, having a loyal Zaeed prevents a useful if fragile person from getting Collector'd.

I have said it before and I say it again... After you have finished the game once or twice, you have to screw up on purpose to loose anyone in the final battle.

[Liffguard]

He's an arse (British spelling for British character...). He is incompetent (as a leader), arrogant and bloodthirsty.

He is an arse, I'll grant you that. Doesn't matter that he's a crap leader, he's just hired muscle. He is arrogant, but so is over half of the rest of your team. See also bloodthirsty.

[VanBuren]

In short: she's arrogant. *loyalty mission spoilers*
As you find out on her loyalty mission, she is extremely attached to the idea that, for all that she suffered in the experimenting, at least she got the worst of it, and her escape proves that she is the toughest there is. She latched onto that image of herself as an incredible hardass, and her appearance reflects that - the tattoos, the shaved head, the lack of armor or even much clothing in spite of how much danger she routinely gets herself into. She flaunts her belief in her own badassness, basically.

This is why she reacts the way she does when you start uncovering evidence that the other children in those experiments actually had it worse, and she was kept sheltered in order to make sure she wouldn't die - if that's true, a very fundamental part of her self-image is undermined at its root, and that thought horrifies her. Which is perhaps why, without DLC, she only gets a shirt after going through her loyalty mission and being forced to confront that.
Yeah, I know, the spoiler box was almost surely unnecessary. Guess I'm being excessively cautious today.

Zevox

I know what you're saying, but I don't think arrogance is quite the right word to describe it. It's really best to think of it as a coping mechanism. It's basically a bandaid she throws over her trauma so she never has to deal with it head-on. Likewise, the whole thing about her clothing and tattoos and shaved head, that all draws from observed behavior in certain trauma victims. Basically, all those things are a response to the feeling of a loss of control associated with the traumatic incident.

Whether it's not wearing a shirt, using your body as a canvas, or even wanton sex, all of those things are efforts to assert some sort of bodily autonomy to cope. Obviously, Jack takes it to extreme levels, but that's one part extreme trauma and two parts VG exaggeration for you.

[James the Dark]

I have said it before and I say it again... After you have finished the game once or twice, you have to screw up on purpose to loose anyone in the final battle.

And despite making all the right choices, I still lost Mordin on my first playthrough. There is hidden mathematics in this game. Ain't callin' you a liar. Just a lucky bugger who never got screwed by the numbers.

[Illieas]

And despite making all the right choices, I still lost Mordin on my first playthrough. There is hidden mathematics in this game. Ain't callin' you a liar. Just a lucky bugger who never got screwed by the numbers.

while i think most of the choice were rather obvious. the final battle though was less so. that was not as obvious. as apparently the number of crew didn't matter but rather the average of all the crew left behind. I lucked out on my first try. i sent zaeed to protect the crew back to the ship. which would be a greivous error as he is a valuation of 4. but it was remedied because as luck would have it my standard party of jack + miranda increased the average.

but oh man getting the failshep to work right was many levels harder to plan out. getting people to die at the right time. and making sure that the averages for the last stand made sure only 2 survived. i had to restart once because i failed to take into account what jobs in the last mission they could take and which loyalty quest i could have done.

[VanBuren]

And despite making all the right choices, I still lost Mordin on my first playthrough. There is hidden mathematics in this game. Ain't callin' you a liar. Just a lucky bugger who never got screwed by the numbers.

There's not any randomness in the numbers IIRC. So my guess is that you didn't send a loyal Mordin to escort everyone, and your Hold The Line score wasn't high enough. As I understand it, each character has two HTL scores: one loyal, one nonloyal. Mordin and Kasumi have the lowest, Grunt the highest. Everyone you leave to hold the line adds their scores together to create the HTL score. If your HTL does not meet a certain amount, people start dying. Starting with the low HTLers.

That being said, do you recall what choices you made? Perhaps we can figure out what went wrong?

[Edge]

Mordin and Kasumi have the lowest, Grunt the highest. Everyone you leave to hold the line adds their scores together to create the HTL score. If your HTL does not meet a certain amount, people start dying. Starting with the low HTLers.

Grunt actually has the same HTL score as Garrus and Zaeed: 4.

All the details on how HTL works can be found here (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/5855452#5855485). WARNING: Bioware Social Network link. Stray beyond into the morass at your own peril.

[Sholos]

Not that my para shep didn't try to help her with her issues but then she thought I was hitting on her. And because the game is dumb even after I told her I wasn't interested she still acted like I was. I get what they were trying to accomplish with the romance but why can't friendship every be a developed option and not just the first three conversations?

Is that the game being dumb, or Jack not realizing (or believing) that someone wouldn't be sexually interested in her? Maybe she just thinks that you're hiding your interest and she just needs to dig it out. Considering that other characters don't continue any romance with you, I'm edging towards the latter.

[Fawkes]

Is that the game being dumb, or Jack not realizing (or believing) that someone wouldn't be sexually interested in her? Maybe she just thinks that you're hiding your interest and she just needs to dig it out. Considering that other characters don't continue any romance with you, I'm edging towards the latter.

She implies that she doesn't believe that anyone would be interested in getting that personal if they weren't just interested in sex. She's been hurt before.

[chiasaur11]

Actually, it's worth pointing out that you don't know she's a psychopath until you free her either. You know she's dangerous and a criminal. Then, right before recruiting her, you find out that she hates Cerberus and is willing to work for you if you give her intel. That actually puts her one step above Zaeed who works for money and doesn't even REALLY have 'hates Cerberus' as a redeeming quality.

...Then you find out she's nuttier then a fruit cake and gets off on killing people.

Well, Zaeed hates Cerberus too, if you talk to him. Has near as many kills on his record as Shepard herself.

And when you meet him, he's beating up a Batarian. Man knows how to make a good first impression.

(Also, apparently Jack'll be a lot more fun to spend time with in 3. So that's fun.)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Seriously, what are Zaeed's benefits again? He's basically Shepard with all the good parts of Shepard gone. Except that you wouldn't need to Lazarus him because sheer hatred would keep him alive. So he's like a lesser Shepard you get for having a coupon.

He's a lesser Shepard, in the same vein that Garrus is but in different aspects. :smallwink: Have all three and it's like you have two whole Shepards! Except one is Space Batman who never leaves any survivors and has an awesome accent. If he had an actual dialogue wheel and a romance, Enkindlers know one of my Fem!Sheps would have fallen for him.


Well, Zaeed hates Cerberus too, if you talk to him. Has near as many kills on his record as Shepard herself.

And when you meet him, he's beating up a Batarian. Man knows how to make a good first impression.

He doesn't really hate them, he just says he's killed a lot of them. Which don['t mean much cause Zaeed's a mercenary and has killed lots of people. Heck, I'd go so far as to say Zaeed's probably killed more people then Shepard (up until Arrival anyway).

And funny, I would think beating a helpless individual and then shooting them would make a bad impression. :smalltongue: Wasn't that batarian just a guy who didn't pay gambling debts or something? Maybe I'm thinking of a different batarian...

[Lord of the Helms]

What, because she once pointed out that having foreign nationals crawling all over the Alliance's brand-new, top-of-the-line prototype warship - perhaps the most technologically advanced ship in known space! - is a security risk? That sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing she should be bringing with her CO. I'd also note that she drops the matter as soon as said CO tells her it's under control.


Except that, as the Codex says:

"The SSV Normandy SR-1 (Systems Alliance Space Vehicle Stealth Reconnaissance 1) is a Systems Alliance starship. She is a prototype "deep scout" frigate, first of the eponymous Normandy class, co-developed by the Alliance and the Turian Hierarchy with the sponsorship of the Citadel Council."

The Normandy is crewed and captained by the Alliance, but it was not made by the Alliance alone. It's a fair bet that the Turians know the design inside-out since it was co-developed with them (in fact there probably wouldn't be a Normandy without Turian help), and the Council and thus at least the Salarians and Asari probably know about it as well. That leaves Wrex and Tali. Wrex is a warrior and mercenary and above all no technician by any stretch of the word. Only Tali could give Ashley anything to worry about since she's an expert engineer on a mission to find something of value to her people (though I'd say she still proved herself to you by providing critical data on your mission without which you'd stand no chance of pursuing Saren), but Ashley isn't worried about "the quarian", she's worried about "so many aliens" on board the ship.

I've kept her alive a few times, but generally I prefer to keep Kaidan. I liked the whole "remarkably nice and angst-less in spite of tragic background galore" if only because it makes him stand out against the (admittedly well-done) angst-fests in the game. Plus Ashley's comments on her name weighing her down fall a bit flat since her name is "Williams", and there are probably thousands, if not tens of thousands, Williamses in the Alliance.

[Zevox]

So, in my new file I've started hitting the parts of ME1 involving heavy use of the Mako.

http://i.imgur.com/3erxD.jpg
Yeah, I'm suddenly looking forward to getting into ME2 with this file just a little bit more.

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

So, in my new file I've started hitting the parts of ME1 involving heavy use of the Mako.

http://i.imgur.com/3erxD.jpg
Yeah, I'm suddenly looking forward to getting into ME2 with this file just a little bit more.

Zevox

Yep. The Mako is the one (1) reason I went through ME1 with four characters (one of each gender and alignment) and will never NEVER play the game again.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I'm one of that rare breed that kinda enjoys the Mako. The controls and physics are bad, but I did a lot of Fury (quad bike with a rocket launcher) driving in Planetside. They handle very similarly.

My unhealthy love for Armature Punting certainly helps things, too.

[Grif]

I'm one of that rare breed that kinda enjoys the Mako. The controls and physics are bad, but I did a lot of Fury (quad bike with a rocket launcher) driving in Planetside. They handle very similarly.

My unhealthy love for Armature Punting certainly helps things, too.

Me too. I just wish the planets had more to explore than barren rocks and recycled props. It'll be awesome if they added details. :smallwink:

[memnarch]

The exploration and strength/endurance of the mako, the speed and maneuverability of the hammerhead. That would be awesome.

[Worira]

I like the Mako, but it's used way, way too much in side-missions.

[chiasaur11]

He doesn't really hate them, he just says he's killed a lot of them. Which don['t mean much cause Zaeed's a mercenary and has killed lots of people. Heck, I'd go so far as to say Zaeed's probably killed more people then Shepard (up until Arrival anyway).

And funny, I would think beating a helpless individual and then shooting them would make a bad impression. :smalltongue: Wasn't that batarian just a guy who didn't pay gambling debts or something? Maybe I'm thinking of a different batarian...

Again, Batarian.

We didn't get details, if I remember, but as a default Batarians are not my favorite people in the galaxy.

My Shepard likes them a lot less. So, shooting one is a great ingratiating gesture.

[Drascin]

I'm one of that rare breed that kinda enjoys the Mako. The controls and physics are bad, but I did a lot of Fury (quad bike with a rocket launcher) driving in Planetside. They handle very similarly.

My unhealthy love for Armature Punting certainly helps things, too.

Personally, I love the mako. Vehicles so trusty are hard to come by. And it didn't control anywhere near as bad as people say - thing could turn very well, climb impossible mountainsides up to what, 80º steepness, and added nice firepower.

I was just annoyed at the laziness of the mako missions, consisting of procedural really steep mountains and little else. Mako segments with more good stuff would have been awesome.

[ShinyRocks]

I hated the Mako because it handled like it weighed as much as a cracker. It had no heft, no solidity to it.

Also because the one and only time I managed to completely flip it over was on the drive to the base on Virmire when I was surrounded by rocket drones and geth armatures and I was there hopelessly puffing my jets while I got bombarded to death.

Also because the way you bounce down cliffsides in that thing, everybody aboard's bones would be powder.

[Avilan the Grey]

Flatter terrain + better physics... and I would be willing to play the game again.

[Zevox]

Personally, I love the mako. Vehicles so trusty are hard to come by. And it didn't control anywhere near as bad as people say - thing could turn very well, climb impossible mountainsides up to what, 80º steepness, and added nice firepower.
"Trusty?" "Didn't control anywhere near as bad as people say?"

Between the controls and the terrain it spends 90% of its time on, it's usually a struggle just to get the damn thing to move in a straight line! I should know, I'm playing with the thing right now. And I don't know how you can claim that it could turn "very well" - turning is one of the worst parts, as the way the controls interact with the Mako's facing vs the camera/weapon's facing is horrible, especially when you're not up to full speed. And that whole "climbing impossible mountainsides" is another negative, as that is slow and very irritating going which has no reason to be anywhere near as frequent as it is.

Really, Bioware dropped the ball on the Mako big time, both the vehicle itself and the stages for it.

Zevox

[VanBuren]

Wait, PC or 360? As I recall, the Mako was sent to the mechanic between the 360 and the PC port and has slightly better handling.

"Better" in the sense that being shot in the head would be better than <insert horrible death>.

[Zevox]

Wait, PC or 360? As I recall, the Mako was sent to the mechanic between the 360 and the PC port and has slightly better handling.

"Better" in the sense that being shot in the head would be better than <insert horrible death>.
For me, 360. And the Mako definitely noticeably does not control how vehicles tend to on console games - acceleration being controlled by the control stick that steers it rather than by a button in particular is a big departure, and rather annoying in and of itself - so I could easily believe that it was designed more so for the PC.

Zevox

[Liffguard]

It ain't too bad on PC. The steering's still too sensitive and the physics as a whole is still buggy but you can pick up a feel for it with a little practice. Being able to control the turret with the mouse and having separate acceleration, reverse and steering keys is also good.

[Avilan the Grey]

Wait, PC or 360? As I recall, the Mako was sent to the mechanic between the 360 and the PC port and has slightly better handling.

"Better" in the sense that being shot in the head would be better than <insert horrible death>.

I played it on the PC and if the 360 is worse... well I just it hard to imagine.

[Janus]

Garrus has his calibrations. :smalltongue:
That reminds me of what I want in ME3- more conversations between Garrus and maleShep.
My broShep needs his bromance, yo! How long do calibrations take, anyway!?

[Psyren]

I'll take the Hammerhead, but with the Mako's armor. (And a shake to go.)

[Sholos]

Plus Ashley's comments on her name weighing her down fall a bit flat since her name is "Williams", and there are probably thousands, if not tens of thousands, Williamses in the Alliance.

It's not the name itself, but who the name is connected to. That part, at least, makes perfect sense, and it's something that happens all the time in real life.


For me, 360. And the Mako definitely noticeably does not control how vehicles tend to on console games - acceleration being controlled by the control stick that steers it rather than by a button in particular is a big departure, and rather annoying in and of itself - so I could easily believe that it was designed more so for the PC.

Zevox

If by "vehicles", you're referring to cars in racing games, then yes, it doesn't control like them. And thank goodness. It controls like every tank I've ever driven in a game. One stick controls the movement, the other controls the turret. It's simplicity in itself to grasp, or at least it was for me. I really don't understand people having a hard time with the Mako's control scheme. I found it incredibly easy to drive around.

[Zevox]

If by "vehicles", you're referring to cars in racing games, then yes, it doesn't control like them.
Not just racing games. For instance, I recently played through Brutal Legend, and your car in that game uses a button for acceleration as well. Granted I had some complaints about how that handled as well, but it was still much better than the Mako.

Zevox

[Psyren]

The thing with the Mako; games where you accelerate with a button typically don't let your vehicle jump. So I can see why they went with the stick thing.

And honestly, the Mako's controls weren't the problem; it was the handling. I could deal with the brutally unforgiving mountain ranges (occasionally dotted with Geth turrets,) the freaking useless minimap (If there's a mile-high, knife-sharp mountain range between me and the dot, throw a line up so I know how far around I have to go dammit, and more importantly which side!), and the vast, lifeless stretches of gameplay padding terrain... I could deal with all that, if the slightest mistake didn't send my moon-car pirouetting off into the sky and tumbling end-over-end down the mountain like Jack and Jill on a bender, undoing nearly half-an-hour of work.

Yeah it's more "realistic" that virgin planets wouldn't be easily traversed by three schlubs in a moon-buggy, but you know what else is realistic? Shepard (and especially Tali) getting laid up for days when unlucky fire punctures their hardsuit. At some point you have to let realism slide for ease of gameplay, and I think the Bioware devs forgot that.

[Avilan the Grey]

And honestly, the Mako's controls weren't the problem; it was the handling.

This. Especially in combination with the terrain*. It could handle flat land and rolling hills good enough... At least on the PC, where you can re-map the controls.

The handling, which is a combination of a leapfrog that is so high on drugs that you have to tie it to the ground so it won't just sail away, a bumper car from an amusement park and well, a tank makes driving on any other surface Hell (with a capital H).


* Why Bioware thought that giving quest-mandatory driving across ragged peaks on every. single. "random". planet. would be "fun" is beyond me.

[Misery Esquire]

I could deal with all that, if the slightest mistake didn't send my moon-car pirouetting off into the sky and tumbling end-over-end down the mountain like Jack and Jill on a bender, undoing nearly half-an-hour of work.

Personally, I could even deal with that ; a la Halo : CE's Warthog joybouncing, but the MAKO just made even the craziest of spinouts so... slow. There's no amusement in watching this slow trawler of an ATV slowly roll onto it's side after lurching drunkenly about the terrain. And the acceleration on it, uphill was... atrocious.

[The_Final_Stand]

Bear in mind that "uphill" mostly meant 45+ degrees. Did anyone else ever turn the camera to the side to look at the incline in question?

[Thanatos 51-50]

"Trusty?" "Didn't control anywhere near as bad as people say?"

Between the controls and the terrain it spends 90% of its time on, it's usually a struggle just to get the damn thing to move in a straight line! I should know, I'm playing with the thing right now. And I don't know how you can claim that it could turn "very well" - turning is one of the worst parts, as the way the controls interact with the Mako's facing vs the camera/weapon's facing is horrible, especially when you're not up to full speed. And that whole "climbing impossible mountainsides" is another negative, as that is slow and very irritating going which has no reason to be anywhere near as frequent as it is.

Really, Bioware dropped the ball on the Mako big time, both the vehicle itself and the stages for it.

Zevox

Really, there are people who love the Mako.
We're just not as vocal about it as all the Mako-haters.

[Athaniar]

I think the Mako was fun in many ways. Maybe it was a bit too light, sure, but I kinda liked it. No, it was the repetitive terrain that made the vehicle levels bad most of the time. The Hammerhead was easier to control, but it was a real glass cannon. Come on, almost breaking apart due to cold? The Mako could easily have endured that.

[Avilan the Grey]

Really, there are people who love the Mako.
We're just not as vocal about it as all the Mako-haters.

Basically it boils down to this: Mandatory major missions: Acceptable or Good, since they had thought-thru designs of the planets and you didn't have to climb the most ridiculous hills. Random planets and sidequests? AARRRGH! Urge To Kill RISING!

[Drascin]

I wonder if I'm just wired so differently to other people. Seriously, making the Mako do a straight line, hard? :smallconfused: Thing climbs almost as well as Wander (from SotC), and in those few parts where you couldn't just go on a straight line up and down, jumping off cliffs and climbing up again (because the Mako is armored as hell and barely takes damage from falls), there was almost always a really easily seen "softer" terrain with better grip not ten meters away anyway.

The problem with the Mako stuff was not that the vehicle was a problem. It was that the sidequests amounted to one big boring collectathon in extremely similar environments where the only fun thing to do was seeing how ludicrously impossible a climb you could do with the Mako. Half an hour in it was already old, and it went on for hours and hours and hours...

[Chen]

I wonder if I'm just wired so differently to other people. Seriously, making the Mako do a straight line, hard? :smallconfused: Thing climbs almost as well as Wander (from SotC), and in those few parts where you couldn't just go on a straight line up and down, jumping off cliffs and climbing up again (because the Mako is armored as hell and barely takes damage from falls), there was almost always a really easily seen "softer" terrain with better grip not ten meters away anyway.


I was wondering this too. I only played on the PC but I had no problem at all with any of the mandatory Mako missions. The side missions were boring but not really difficult either. Some places were a pain to drive through but more often than not if I got to a spot that was impossible to climb I figured I wasn't supposed to go that way and found a different (almost always easier) way.

[Avilan the Grey]

I was wondering this too. I only played on the PC but I had no problem at all with any of the mandatory Mako missions. The side missions were boring but not really difficult either. Some places were a pain to drive through but more often than not if I got to a spot that was impossible to climb I figured I wasn't supposed to go that way and found a different (almost always easier) way.

This seems to be the same experience that I have; mandatory Mako missions on the PC were mildly entertaining and fairly easy. The side missions were both boring and frustrating, which from a game-designing perspective is a HUGE no-no and probably a symptom of A) grave incompetence, B) sadism or C) a misguided idea that Nintendo hard is fun.

[VanBuren]

I was wondering this too. I only played on the PC but I had no problem at all with any of the mandatory Mako missions. The side missions were boring but not really difficult either. Some places were a pain to drive through but more often than not if I got to a spot that was impossible to climb I figured I wasn't supposed to go that way and found a different (almost always easier) way.

Again, the Mako was definitely tweaked between the 360 release and the PC port, that or PC controls just fit it better.

[Worira]

How can you not love driving a bouncy castle? Playing Desert Bus in one, sure, which the side missions tend to feel like, but the handling itself is fine.

I do agree that certain planets are awful, though.

[Illieas]

10 things to know from the mass effect novels

http://www.newsarama.com/games/10-must-know-facts-mass-effect-novels-comics-mass-effect-3-110707-1.html

[Thanatos 51-50]

I played on the 360, and the Mako, to me was an excellent vehicle, especially during the story missions. 'Twas fast, reliable, and packed enough of a punch to take down what I needed it to.

The only complaint I ever had for the Mako was... Well, not the Mako's fault.
The sidequests where you free-roamed over a couple square kloms of a planet's surface got a bit boring at times, and it was only the awesomeness that was the Mako making it tolerable.

[Zevox]

a misguided idea that Nintendo hard is fun.
Oh, Nintendo Hard most certainly can be fun. I just finished playing my Mega Man Zero Collection on my DS, and that is certainly an excellent example of it - particularly since the easiest of the games (MMZ3) was by far the least enjoyable. Similarly you could check the Devil May Cry 3 thread I had up last week or so to see me praising the difficulty of that game's boss fights.

But the Mako is not Nintendo Hard, ever. Climbing mountains with the thing isn't a challenge, just slow, annoying, time-consuming, and wholly a waste of game resources. Combat with it isn't difficult, it's either downright easy or, on the rare occasions when you're up against enough enemies for it to be dangerous, potentially time-consuming, since you can just run away and conduct repairs/wait for your shields to recharge as needed.

Zevox

[VanBuren]

I played on the 360, and the Mako, to me was an excellent vehicle, especially during the story missions. 'Twas fast, reliable, and packed enough of a punch to take down what I needed it to.

The only complaint I ever had for the Mako was... Well, not the Mako's fault.
The sidequests where you free-roamed over a couple square kloms of a planet's surface got a bit boring at times, and it was only the awesomeness that was the Mako making it tolerable.

Now see, if given the ability--and without the environmental hazards--I would have preferred doing it all on foot. I want Cerberus to use the Mako in ME3 so I can blow it up myself.

[Drascin]

Oh, Nintendo Hard most certainly can be fun. I just finished playing my Mega Man Zero Collection on my DS, and that is certainly an excellent example of it - particularly since the easiest of the games (MMZ3) was by far the least enjoyable. Similarly you could check the Devil May Cry 3 thread I had up last week or so to see me praising the difficulty of that game's boss fights.


Yeah, you and I obviously find different things hard :smalltongue:. I mean, I would call MMZ4 easier than 3 by a landslide - only hard part in 4 is Kraft, everything else is really easy to me. Yet 3 had several bits that downright kicked my sorry ass, while you found it easy.

[Zevox]

Yeah, you and I obviously find different things hard :smalltongue:. I mean, I would call MMZ4 easier than 3 by a landslide - only hard part in 4 is Kraft, everything else is really easy to me. Yet 3 had several bits that downright kicked my sorry ass, while you found it easy.
Mega Man Zero tangent (spoilered for off-topic-ness):
The big thing that made MMZ3 pathetically easy for me was all the easily-acquired power-ups. The head and foot items, as well as permanent Cyber Elf boosts. The biggest ones there were health-increasing Cyber Elves (I found one that gave me a second health meter quite early, plus at least three that boosted both health meters, ultimately ending me with probably four times as much health as you start with), a Cyber Elf that permanently made spikes and other lethal traps do only damage to you rather than kill you, and the head item that let you restore your health by standing still. Plus the head item that auto-charged your weapons was a big help vs bosses and the foot item that let you walk on slippery surfaces normally eased what might have been one of the few challenging parts of the end stage.

By the end of MMZ3 I basically just powered through the final boss, using only one sub tank and one healing Elf to fight off all three forms. I just didn't need to worry about losing by that point. And honestly after the first few stages I don't even recall any tricky platforming bits either, though maybe my immunity to instant-death obstacles besides pits and massive hp just made me not notice them anymore.

In contrast, MMZ4 revamped the Cyber Elf system entirely, and while that started to get broken as you leveled the Elf up to about 4+, it was actually much more balanced than in prior games at lower levels, and I certainly spent most of the game at those lower levels since the enemies weren't exactly dropping hundreds of crystals per mission. On top of that the new crafting system for acquiring head, body, and foot power-ups made getting them much harder than in 3 - I couldn't make any of them until late in the game, and I had to look up the recipes all online since there was only one someone in the game actually gave me. And honestly, I actually needed them to beat the final level's boss gauntlet, in contrast to 3 where they made that far too easy. The only thing to really help ease 4's difficulty that I had for most of the game was one easily located sub-tank, and it was really sheer luck that I chose the stage with it as my third or fourth to do, since you have all eight bosses' stages available from the start in 4.

Plus, honestly, I just think that the platforming in 4 was much trickier, and the enemies more varied. Plus since you didn't have elemental powers you could attack to your main weapons to take advantage of against bosses those were actually harder than they usually were in the MMZ games. Oh, and the lack of the shield boomerang probably made it harder on me as well, since I had been using that as my second weapon of choice since game one (only occasionally changing it for the chain rod in MMZ2 - though I also sometimes used the chain rod in place of my sword in that game).
Zevox

[Dhavaer]

Turns out infiltrators aren't the only ones with invisibility; my Soldier Shep somehow decided the renegade interrupt at the start of Miranda's loyalty mission would be much cooler if she were invisible. It looked very weird.

[Dragor]

Turns out infiltrators aren't the only ones with invisibility; my Soldier Shep somehow decided the renegade interrupt at the start of Miranda's loyalty mission would be much cooler if she were invisible. It looked very weird.

Heh, on that very same part recently I had Jack as my other member. She didn't shoot with her pistol, she simply mimed it. It reminded me of this (http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnbu8nBFDS1qikhz3o1_500.gif):

[Squark]

So... Since this thread seems to double as the Mass Effect Trilogy thread... I'm going to be picking up ME2, soon. Does anyone have any particular DLCs they reccomend?

[Zevox]

So... Since this thread seems to double as the Mass Effect Trilogy thread... I'm going to be picking up ME2, soon. Does anyone have any particular DLCs they reccomend?
Lair of the Shadowbroker. Best DLC for anything, ever.

Zevox

[chiasaur11]

And Kasumi.

Good squadmate. Of course, if you're on 360 the DLCs sometimes go on sale. Just a heads-up, they never do on PC.

[VanBuren]

And Kasumi.

Good squadmate. Of course, if you're on 360 the DLCs sometimes go on sale. Just a heads-up, they never do on PC.

And whichever pack has the Kestral armor. And the Matlock.

Overlord was good too.

[chiasaur11]

And whichever pack has the Kestral armor. And the Matlock.

Overlord was good too.

Gonna disagree on the Mattock and Kestrel, at least for a first go round. They make life easier for everyone, but especially Soldiers, who have it easy already.

First time, you want purer difficulty. Later, though?

Yeah. Pretty fun.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

...I've NEVER wanted purer difficulty in a game. I just want to see every little bit of story it has to offer, and look cool while doing it. :smallconfused:

[memnarch]

I'll recommend against the Mattock and Kestrel, just because you don't really need them. You'll be fine with the M-12 Locust from the Kasumi DLC pack.

I just got Overlord, Kasumi, and Shadow Broker DLCs and I had a very fun play through.

[Avilan the Grey]

So... Since this thread seems to double as the Mass Effect Trilogy thread... I'm going to be picking up ME2, soon. Does anyone have any particular DLCs they reccomend?

Must have DLCs: Shadow Broker, Kasumi.
Really REALLY recommended: Firepower Pack, Kestrel Pack

[Lord of the Helms]

So... Since this thread seems to double as the Mass Effect Trilogy thread... I'm going to be picking up ME2, soon. Does anyone have any particular DLCs they reccomend?

Assuming you're buying it new rather than used, you already have one good DLC (Zaeed) included. Other than that, I personally like the Mission DLCs while I see little sense in weapon or appearance packs, and would rank them in this order:

Lair of the Shadowbroker: Gotta second Zevox here, this is hands down the best DLC done for anything ever. Reasonably long, cool twists and turns, lots of gameplay changes and incredibly cool boss battles.

Kasumi: Useful extra companion and very nice mission that mixes talking, spying and sneaking with solid standard combat. Very good overall.

Overlord: Solid, has decent usage of the new vehicle (Hammerhead), but otherwise does not really stand out all that much. No new enemies or particularly interesting bosses to fight.

Arrival: Interesting for story reasons as it provides a direct bridge into ME3, and for finally showing Admiral Hackett in person, but the actual gameplay was the weakest and least fun of all DLCs for me, primarily because you do the mission alone. Most fun aspect seems to be that enemies make better use of special attacks (tech attacks specifically), otherwise it's just the same old fights against the same old enemies, only you're alone to do them.

As I said, I am extremely uninterested in the weapon or appearance packs as long as they are to-pay-for rather than free extras, so I can't really comment on their quality. You have plenty of good weapons in the vanilla game and another great one with the Kasumi DLC as is.

[chiasaur11]

...I've NEVER wanted purer difficulty in a game. I just want to see every little bit of story it has to offer, and look cool while doing it. :smallconfused:

Fair enough. I just figured a run to appreciate the Carnifex, Revenant, and Claymore would lead to more enjoyment overall, assuming he was going for more than one run.

Oh, and a tip:

The best class is Vanguard. Some people will disagree on this topic.

They are wrong.

[VanBuren]

Fair enough. I just figured a run to appreciate the Carnifex, Revenant, and Claymore would lead to more enjoyment overall, assuming he was going for more than one run.

Oh, and a tip:

The best class is Vanguard. Some people will disagree on this topic.

They are wrong.

Best class or easiest class?

Because the Soldier is the latter.

Also, Sheploo 4 lief!

[Edge]

Also, Sheploo 4 lief!

Before this becomes heated: I like both Shepards' voice actors, femShep is slightly better in both games, but manShep improved from 1 to 2, whereas femShep stayed the same or degraded slightly.

Related tangent: I find manShep's voice acting becomes better when you imagine him intending to be sarcastic with nearly line.

[chiasaur11]

Best class or easiest class?

Because the Soldier is the latter.

Also, Sheploo 4 lief!

Right, thanks for the reminder.

Hale is the better VA in one by a very notable margin, so if you're importing, well, start with her.

Would say she's still better in 2, but it's close enough to come down more to taste.

And of course I don't mean easiest.

Vanguard is not easy. It requires you to be alert, tactically aware, and focused.

But nothing makes you feel more alive than taking on a room full of mercenaries, bouncing from cluster to cluster, never pausing, never switching out your trusty shotgun until everyone else is dead by your hand.

Went into Kasumi's loyalty on insanity before Horizon. Level... 12, I think. Probably less.

Every fight was nasty, but there was one bit... where they roll out a handful of Lokis at the midpoint, couple of guys start on the back of a truck.

Touch and go. More than one try, but when it all clicked...

Bounced from cluster to cluster. Staying still was suicide. Cover was for sissies even if it had worked.

And at the end, I had seldom felt more alive. Good times.

[Liffguard]

But nothing makes you feel more alive than taking on a room full of mercenaries, bouncing from cluster to cluster, never pausing, never switching out your trusty shotgun until everyone else is dead by your hand.

Vanguard is cool but my personal preference is definitely infiltrator. I love turning invisible, ducking from cover to cover, taking down enemies with perfect single headshots. I like to imagine them getting more and more freaked out and starting to panic as they slowly get whittled down by an invisible adversary, Predator style. Finally, there's one terrified merc left fighting for his life. For him, you take out your pistol, sneak up behind him invisibly then just as your cloak wears off shoot him in the back of the head executioner style.

I may have certain issues.

[Athaniar]

No, that's normal infiltrator mentality. My infiltrator likes to turn her enemies against each other with Dominate and AI Hacking and then finish the survivors off with the Phalanx. Extra fun if it succeeds with a boss or YMIR!

My main is still a Vanguard, though. Charge is just so fun.

As for DLCs, Shadow Broker is definitely the best, though you should read the Redemption comic first if you can get your hands on it, it explains a lot of things that might confuse you otherwise. Kasumi is also very fun, she is one of my favorite team members and her mission is very fun to play. If you're only getting one item pack, get Firepower, it has three of the best weapons available. Those three are must-haves, but get the others too if you have the money, at least Overlord and Arrival (despite its flaws it's still vital to the plot).

[ShinyRocks]

I still love Sentinels. Having Warp and Overload means you can deal with anything and take whoever you like on the team, and Tech Armour is just plain cool.

That said, Vanguard is FUN. My Renegade ManShep is/was a Vanguard and it just makes sense that someone that reckless and ruthless would fight by smashing into people and shooting them in the face.

Also, a couple of times I managed to time it so that Shep Charged and the same second, Kasumi Shadow Striked, (Shadow Struck?) so the target flew back but only like an inch, right onto Kasumi's knife. Good times.

[Avilan the Grey]

I have always favored Infiltrators until I played a Sentinel. This is definitely my favorite class, especially after taking Assault Rifle training and getting the Mattlock.

[ShinyRocks]

I always took sniper rifle on my Sentinel (I love the Viper). I'm about to take her on an Insanity run (to get the only two achievements I still need) I think - do you think I should take assault rifles instead?

[Liffguard]

I always took sniper rifle on my Sentinel (I love the Viper). I'm about to take her on an Insanity run (to get the only two achievements I still need) I think - do you think I should take assault rifles instead?

TBH I don't think there's much point to sniper rifles unless you get the Widow. Take assault rifles on the other hand and you can use the Mattock or the Vindicator, both of which are bloody powerful, very accurate and carry way more ammo than any sniper rifle.

[Squark]

Totally off topic, but... I'm just so relieved I found it. I finally found the last suit of colossus armor I needed to make my entire squad have a uniform. So Kaiden will get to finally match the rest of the squad... for about... half an hour, before he dies.


Does anyone know an easy way of finding human suits of the darn armor? I'd like to do this again on my next playthrough, but hopefully before I'm about to head off to Virmire.

[Cristo Meyers]

Totally off topic, but... I'm just so relieved I found it. I finally found the last suit of colossus armor I needed to make my entire squad have a uniform. So Kaiden will get to finally match the rest of the squad... for about... half an hour, before he dies.


Does anyone know an easy way of finding human suits of the darn armor? I'd like to do this again on my next playthrough, but hopefully before I'm about to head off to Virmire.

If it's late enough in the game you can get a suit from Bring Down The Sky if you ask for armor, but if it's too early it'll be Titan.

Other than that, getting Colossus armor is a big dice shoot: you're pretty much just check every shop any time you're around and hoping.

[Squark]

If it's late enough in the game you can get a suit from Bring Down The Sky if you ask for armor, but if it's too early it'll be Titan.

Other than that, getting Colossus armor is a big dice shoot: you're pretty much just check every shop any time you're around and hoping.

Yeah, that's where I got my first set of human armor- Kaiden and Liara where running around in lesser armor long after the rest of the party had gotten colossus armor, simply because they where competing with Shepard for Light Colossus armor. Still, the sight of your entire squad in colossus armor, completely kitted out with spectre X gear, is an awesome sight to behold. They look like they're just as powerful as they really are.

[Psyren]

I always took sniper rifle on my Sentinel (I love the Viper). I'm about to take her on an Insanity run (to get the only two achievements I still need) I think - do you think I should take assault rifles instead?

What type of Sentinel are you?

Casters really want the Viper, because the scope makes aiming powers past cover a breeze. This is especially true if you rely on instant-travel, no-curve powers like Overload, ED, and/or Reave.

Assaults ideally want a shotgun, but failing that an AR works well. But I find that without a slowdown (like the Soldier/Infiltrator get), SMGs are every bit as good as ARs, particularly the Tempest. This frees up your bonus weapon for something that adds a little more versatility.

[Grif]

Best class or easiest class?

Because the Soldier is the latter.

Also, Sheploo 4 lief!

Soldiers 4 Life. :smalltongue:

[Liffguard]

For a similar question, I'm currently playing through my first vanguard and I'll be going to the collector ship soon. Is it worth getting the Claymore if I've already got the geth plasma shotgun?

[Worira]

Very no. Honestly, I think it's just about the worst shotgun in the game.

[Eliirae]

I played Vanguard in ME1 before the devs decided that it should be a melee centric shotgun wielding charger. So call me stubborn, but I've played through ME2 with the original vanguard style and plan to do the same with ME3 unless they make pistols/SMGs absolutely useless.

[Morty]

I've played both ME1 and ME2 as a Sentinel and a Soldier. As a Sentinel, I did two playthroughs - in the first, I took an assault rifle as an addtional weapon and in the second, a shotgun. However, in the first playthrough I didn't have any DLCs. Playing as a Sentinel was fun due to a wide array of powers and the survivability provided by the Tech Armor.
My Soldier was effective but simplistic - pick the best type of ammo, use Adrenaline Rush, murderlize a target, rinse and repeat. I replayed that character as an Infiltrator in ME2 and it was much more fresh. I didn't play long enough to really get a hang of it, though. The rifle provided by the Aegis Pack kicked some serious ass, but it chewed through ammo quickly.

[Edge]

Only played soldier in ME1 (to breeze though that painfully dull combat with minimal thought), played every class in ME2. Vanguard is fun, but gets too frustrating on higher difficulties.

Adept is where it's at. Warp-bombs away.

[Illieas]

in honor of the 10,000 follower on twiter casey place out this pic
http://twitpic.com/5qpw1b
of james vega

he kinda reminds me brock lesner in body type which is frankly very scary. I wonder what personality they gonna place on that kinda guy. I don't have high hopes as people that look like that in movies and video games are generic badass marines and we currently have enough of them.

[Cristo Meyers]

in honor of the 10,000 follower on twiter casey place out this pic
http://twitpic.com/5qpw1b
of james vega

he kinda reminds me brock lesner in body type which is frankly very scary. I wonder what personality they gonna place on that kinda guy. I don't have high hopes as people that look like that in movies and video games are generic badass marines and we currently have enough of them.

Nope, still looks like he was on his way to audition for Gears of War 4-5-whatever and got lost...

[chiasaur11]

I played Vanguard in ME1 before the devs decided that it should be a melee centric shotgun wielding charger. So call me stubborn, but I've played through ME2 with the original vanguard style and plan to do the same with ME3 unless they make pistols/SMGs absolutely useless.

Ah, you have not understood the riddle of Vanguards.

Yes! You know what it is, don't you child? Shall I tell you? It's the least I can do. The pistol isn't strong, child, the fist is stronger!

That is strength, child! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? Look at the strength in your body, the desire in your heart, the Vanguard charge detonating any husk it touches, I gave you this! Such a waste. Contemplate this on the tooth of the dragon.

[ShinyRocks]

What type of Sentinel are you?

Casters really want the Viper, because the scope makes aiming powers past cover a breeze. This is especially true if you rely on instant-travel, no-curve powers like Overload, ED, and/or Reave.

Assaults ideally want a shotgun, but failing that an AR works well. But I find that without a slowdown (like the Soldier/Infiltrator get), SMGs are every bit as good as ARs, particularly the Tempest. This frees up your bonus weapon for something that adds a little more versatility.

Oh, yeah, as Sentinel I'm a Caster. Stay hiding and whittle them down with powers. And hope that Miranda doesn't see fit to stand on a crate in the middle of a firefight, just for the fun of it. (I swear they gave that girl 'underlying deathwish' as part of her AI.)

[Avilan the Grey]

Oh, yeah, as Sentinel I'm a Caster. Stay hiding and whittle them down with powers. And hope that Miranda doesn't see fit to stand on a crate in the middle of a firefight, just for the fun of it. (I swear they gave that girl 'underlying deathwish' as part of her AI.)

As a Sentinel I use my gun more than my powers, but not by much. Anyway the key for Miranda (and several others) is to understand that the AI, once it has decided to pop head up and fire, won't go back into cover until A) you manually tell them, or B) they have to reload. That's why if you constantly get her in situations like that (I usually don't for some reason) give her a heavy pistol instead.

[Athaniar]

in honor of the 10,000 follower on twiter casey place out this pic
http://twitpic.com/5qpw1b
of james vega

he kinda reminds me brock lesner in body type which is frankly very scary. I wonder what personality they gonna place on that kinda guy. I don't have high hopes as people that look like that in movies and video games are generic badass marines and we currently have enough of them.
This picture doesn't make me like the character any more. Let's just hope BioWare makes him actually interesting in personality. After all, it is BioWare, so I'll be disappointed if they don't succeed.

[Worira]

Well, he looks a little bit less like a mutant gorilla in this one. So that's good, I guess.

[Psyren]

As a Sentinel I use my gun more than my powers, but not by much. Anyway the key for Miranda (and several others) is to understand that the AI, once it has decided to pop head up and fire, won't go back into cover until A) you manually tell them, or B) they have to reload. That's why if you constantly get her in situations like that (I usually don't for some reason) give her a heavy pistol instead.

You can also give her a Shuriken. Thanks to the AI's supernatural accuracy (every shot in the burst hits), it does almost as much damage as the Tempest, more than the Locust, and the short clip forces her into cover more often. This is a good way to keep the squishier characters alive on Insanity (Miranda, Mordin, Kasumi etc.)

Remember also that AI is set by weapon type. Giving the AI a shotgun makes them take more risks and get up in the enemy's face. This is a good idea for Grunt and Barrier Jacob, not so much for Jack, Tali and Barrier-less Jacob.

[Comet]

I'm liking the new Vega guy. He'll probably fit right in with my renegade man Shepard, who happens to be a human supremacist, chauvinist and extraordinarily angry at the galaxy. Good times to be had, for sure.

And even if one my Shepards wasn't trying very hard to be a Space Marine, I'd still find some way to take this new guy along. He seems to be like, say, Grunt. The muscle. I'm really not seeing the problem with him.

[Callos_DeTerran]

...Something still strikes me as inherently wrong about that man's face, I can't shake the feeling.

[Dienekes]

I'm liking the new Vega guy. He'll probably fit right in with my renegade man Shepard, who happens to be a human supremacist, chauvinist and extraordinarily angry at the galaxy. Good times to be had, for sure.

And even if one my Shepards wasn't trying very hard to be a Space Marine, I'd still find some way to take this new guy along. He seems to be like, say, Grunt. The muscle. I'm really not seeing the problem with him.

What I'm getting is 1) he's not pretty and 2) he looks all buffed up.

Apparently people dislike that and from that point it leads them to believe he will only be a stereotypical dumb jock like man-ape with no personality besides killing things and asking stupid questions.

Personally, he's not pretty. Great, none of my Sheps have been hunks either, most soldiers I've met haven't been pretty boys so it all seems fine. As to being all buffed up, yeah he's big but not to the point that it strains credibility. I've met folk around that size before (admittedly at the gym and in sports) so also seems fine to me. As to the personality thing, it seems like a ridiculous jump in logic.

[Liffguard]

What I'm getting is 1) he's not pretty and 2) he looks all buffed up.

Apparently people dislike that and from that point it leads them to believe he will only be a stereotypical dumb jock like man-ape with no personality besides killing things and asking stupid questions.

Personally, he's not pretty. Great, none of my Sheps have been hunks either, most soldiers I've met haven't been pretty boys so it all seems fine. As to being all buffed up, yeah he's big but not to the point that it strains credibility. I've met folk around that size before (admittedly at the gym and in sports) so also seems fine to me. As to the personality thing, it seems like a ridiculous jump in logic.

Agree with all this. It's amazing the amount of conclusion-jumping people are doing based on literally two pictures.

[Fawkes]

...Something still strikes me as inherently wrong about that man's face, I can't shake the feeling.

Yeah, it just doesn't look right. It doesn't look like a real face to me. Super uncanny valley.

[VanBuren]

What I'm getting is 1) he's not pretty and 2) he looks all buffed up.

Apparently people dislike that and from that point it leads them to believe he will only be a stereotypical dumb jock like man-ape with no personality besides killing things and asking stupid questions.

Personally, he's not pretty. Great, none of my Sheps have been hunks either, most soldiers I've met haven't been pretty boys so it all seems fine. As to being all buffed up, yeah he's big but not to the point that it strains credibility. I've met folk around that size before (admittedly at the gym and in sports) so also seems fine to me. As to the personality thing, it seems like a ridiculous jump in logic.

Indeed. Frankly, given what we've been told about his purpose in being a way for new players to get up to speed by having a new guy, I'm inclined to think he'll be more like Arthur Dent than Marcus Fenix, and that he'll spend far more time confused and in disbelief than growling.

[Androgeus]

I'm inclined to think he'll be more like Arthur Dent

Thanks, now I'm thinking about him crashing EDI by asking for a cup of tea. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

So, I've completed the ME1 portion of my newest character file, and am moving on to ME2.

For players who have played an Engineer in 2, how useful is the Combat Drone skill? Between my Infiltrator and Sentinel files I've already figured out all of the other Engineer skills (well, except AI Hacking, mostly because robotic enemies aren't all that common in ME2), but I honestly have no clue what to make of the Combat Drone. On Veteran difficulty (one above normal), not the unforgivingly hard difficulties.

Also, bonus power recommendations? I'd rather not go with an ammo power or biotic power, but there's plenty of others to choose from. Just for class flavor I'm going to start with Neural Shock, though Flashbang Grenade is also quite tempting, and I'm a bit curious as to whether Energy Drain would be worth using.

Zevox

[Dienekes]

I play on Insane, pretty much solely. On that the Drone dies way too fast. It's useful for a quick distraction, but that's about it. That said it does have some uses, when you're facing against 1 big guy and a bunch of mooks distract the big guy giving you about 1-2 seconds to kill off the mooks, the obvious benefit here is best against Harbinger.

At lower levels I assume it's just the same but that distraction goes from 1-2 seconds to 3-4 or so.

Oh also you can target someone behind cover with it and once it attacks them they get out of cover thus opening them up to be shot upon.

Personally I feel it's the weakest of the signature abilities, like a weaker single target singularity that does trivial damage as well. Still worth getting but you have to be clever with it.

For bonus powers I like Energy Drain, because it helps with survivability a bit and doesn't have as long a cooldown as Geth Shield Boost (my favorite of the shielding powers for the bonus damage). Neural Shock may be worth it in your difficulty depending on how well armored the mooks are, on Insane I skip it.

[Thanatos 51-50]

It seems, to me, that people have having a knee-jerk reaction which approximates to "NO! New Character! For New Players! In my Mass Effect! Bad! Must relate to something generally scoffed at in the story department! Gears of War!"

Any reasonable person who points out that quite a few ME2 Sheps have that same urban camo pattern on their armour, and also generally have the visor, is scoffed or ignored.
Likewise, don't ever think about pointing out that in the second picture, it looks like he's wearing the fatigue from the first game, only with the undershirt instead of the normal top. That would be Heresey to them. They'll probably point out that he's stupid-ripped.

Again, it would be folly to point out that Real-life Navies have a few stupid-ripped people aboard their ships, for the dual reasons that they're in the military and travel by boat, surrounded by work gets boring. It wouldn't be logical, to them, to extend this to the sci-fi 'verse of Mass Effect.

Oh, and they'll likely call you an idiot who can only appreciate games like Gears of War and Call of Duty.

[Khosan]

I play on Insane, pretty much solely. On that the Drone dies way too fast. It's useful for a quick distraction, but that's about it. That said it does have some uses, when you're facing against 1 big guy and a bunch of mooks distract the big guy giving you about 1-2 seconds to kill off the mooks, the obvious benefit here is best against Harbinger.

At lower levels I assume it's just the same but that distraction goes from 1-2 seconds to 3-4 or so.

Oh also you can target someone behind cover with it and once it attacks them they get out of cover thus opening them up to be shot upon.

Personally I feel it's the weakest of the signature abilities, like a weaker single target singularity that does trivial damage as well. Still worth getting but you have to be clever with it.

For bonus powers I like Energy Drain, because it helps with survivability a bit and doesn't have as long a cooldown as Geth Shield Boost (my favorite of the shielding powers for the bonus damage). Neural Shock may be worth it in your difficulty depending on how well armored the mooks are, on Insane I skip it.

It depends on what you set it on. For example, if you set it on a Scion, they can end up locked down for a pretty long time because their melee range AoE attack has a wind-up animation that's a little longer than the attack speed of the drone, so it keeps getting interrupted. Set it on a Praetorian or an YMIR mech and, while it will go down fast, it's a few extra seconds where your squadmates aren't being targeted.

That said, morphing it into the explosive drone is probably more effective on higher difficulties. It'll die pretty quickly in most situations, and an AoE stagger effect is pretty handy, especially if you place it right.

It's still probably worth maxing first, even if it is weak compared to other powers. It gives you some breathing room.

[Liffguard]

It's always irritated me how the engineer in ME2 is the only class not to get a unique power. Everyone else gets something exclusive but the engineer has to make do with something that two other party members already have. Just seems a little redundant.

[Cristo Meyers]

It seems, to me, that people have having a knee-jerk reaction which approximates to "NO! New Character! For New Players! In my Mass Effect! Bad! Must relate to something generally scoffed at in the story department! Gears of War!"

Any reasonable person who points out that quite a few ME2 Sheps have that same urban camo pattern on their armour, and also generally have the visor, is scoffed or ignored.
Likewise, don't ever think about pointing out that in the second picture, it looks like he's wearing the fatigue from the first game, only with the undershirt instead of the normal top. That would be Heresey to them. They'll probably point out that he's stupid-ripped.

Again, it would be folly to point out that Real-life Navies have a few stupid-ripped people aboard their ships, for the dual reasons that they're in the military and travel by boat, surrounded by work gets boring. It wouldn't be logical, to them, to extend this to the sci-fi 'verse of Mass Effect.

Oh, and they'll likely call you an idiot who can only appreciate games like Gears of War and Call of Duty.

Point me to one person here who's done any of that other than say he looks like one of the marines from Gears of War :smallannoyed:

I agree that the rampant speculation saying he's going to be a dullard space marine is uncalled for, but it goes both ways.

[Psyren]

It seems, to me, that people have having a knee-jerk reaction which approximates to "NO! New Character! For New Players! In my Mass Effect! Bad! Must relate to something generally scoffed at in the story department! Gears of War!"

I'm sure people on the Bioware fora have this attitude. I find it ironic, considering how popular many of the new characters in ME2 were (Mordin, Grunt, and Thane in particular.)

And lest we think it's just the aliens, Kasumi and Zaeed also have quite the following, especially the former. I have faith that Bioware know how to write a johnny-come-lately and make him likeable.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'm sure people on the Bioware fora have this attitude. I find it ironic, considering how popular many of the new characters in ME2 were (Mordin, Grunt, and Thane in particular.)

And lest we think it's just the aliens, Kasumi and Zaeed also have quite the following, especially the former. I have faith that Bioware know how to write a johnny-come-lately and make him likeable.

See, that's not what I'm worried about. I'm sure he'll be an intriguing character, if in a mundane fashion (though hopefully not as mundane as Kaiden or Jacob, I personally hope he has a breakdown mid-Mass Effect 3 from all the crap Shep has begun to take as 'just a normal mission' and freaks out about it all). It's...


Yeah, it just doesn't look right. It doesn't look like a real face to me. Super uncanny valley.

...this that bothers me. And it's not that his face doesn't look real, it looks too real and un-nerves the crap outta me.

[Squark]

Are the paragon/renagade point bonuses from the class ability in ME2 permanent, or one time things?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Point me to one person here who's done any of that other than say he looks like one of the marines from Gears of War :smallannoyed:

I agree that the rampant speculation saying he's going to be a dullard space marine is uncalled for, but it goes both ways.

Extrapolation, mostly (Some of it I have seen). In my writing classes growing up, I was taught that anticpation of an opposing viewoint's rebuttal and cutting it off was good form.

[chiasaur11]

But this guy is:

1) The "First Male Companion" for this game, which historically leads to the worst written and most boring Bioware characters. Jacob, Kaiden, Carth...

2) He's got nothing interesting about him from what we've seen, and has no reason beyond "You're bringing him." to be a crew member. Look at Mordin, one of the greatest minds in the universe, or Jack, deadliest human biotic not named Shepard. Mass Effect 1 had "ordinary" people as your squaddies, but ME2 and 3 made real effort to make them, well, not.

To quote Kieron Gillen

"These just aren’t people you’re with. These are characters of real note. On one hand, you have the scientific prodigies, designed to be perfect – whether they were created (Jack, Grunt) or trained (Thane) or both (Miranda). On the other hand, you have characters who – by their actions – have performed acts which shaped the entire universe (Zaeed as founder of one of the Mercenary organisations that hounded you, Mordin as the primary architect of the twist of the Genophage). And the ones who aren’t that, are positioned as the highest part of their species – Tali is a foremost genius, Samura as a member of a genuinely legendary order and Legion (though novelty, even if nothing else) is clearly unique – the first Geth we’ve ever talked to. Note how they re-introduced Garrus, as a mythological creature of Omega’s underworlds, preying on the cruel like Batman with a sniper-rifle. They make him alien to you, to make you think of him in a way other than simply “your old friend”. These are big people."

Same applies to Liara and Ash (and, I suppose, Kaiden). Spectres. The Shadow Broker. And Wrex, the greatest Krogan warlord since the rebellions.

Vega is just this guy, you know? Mid level spec ops with no real experience in council space, let alone the Terminus.. Gameplaywise, he'll probably have uses, but narratively, can't see much he'd do beyond being The Load, the new guy, the idiot you can't afford to give anything beyond "Don't shoot the Geth, dammit!" because the fate of everything is on the line. He's not even Jacob's level of experience.

3) That haircut, combined with the bad proportions. He's like a badly shaved gorilla.

[Liffguard]

But this guy is:
1) The "First Male Companion" for this game, which historically leads to the worst written and most boring Bioware characters. Jacob, Kaiden, Carth...


It's already been brought up before, but I still really don't understand the Kaidan/Jacob hate. I think they were both well written with understandable motivations and backstories. Sure, they had remarkably little baggage but TBH that made them just come across as honest and refreshing to me compared to the other characters.



2) He's got nothing interesting about him from what we've seen...Vega is just this guy, you know?

Where does this come from? So far we know literally nothing about him besides his name and two pictures.


3) That haircut, combined with the bad proportions. He's like a badly shaved gorilla.

I'll admit, the proportions looked a bit off in the fist picture (arms too short) but the second one seems fine. It seems like most of the criticism of his looks (haircut, face, proportions, gorilla etc.) are just that he doesn't fit the normal male videogame protagonist molds of ruggedly handsome or pretty-boy.

[Khosan]

It's always irritated me how the engineer in ME2 is the only class not to get a unique power. Everyone else gets something exclusive but the engineer has to make do with something that two other party members already have. Just seems a little redundant.

The engineer version is a lot better than Tali and Legion's. Their Drones have a cooldown of 30 seconds that locks them out of everything until that's finished. Shep's drone has a cooldown of...3 seconds? A really small cooldown in any case, it's basically spammable and can almost permanently lock down certain enemies.

[Liffguard]

The engineer version is a lot better than Tali and Legion's. Their Drones have a cooldown of 30 seconds that locks them out of everything until that's finished. Shep's drone has a cooldown of...3 seconds? A really small cooldown in any case, it's basically spammable and can almost permanently lock down certain enemies.

Ah, cool. Was not aware of that. I may have to look into doing an engineer playthrough. I prefer tech to biotics most of the time anyway. Whilst biotics are cool, I can't help but feel they weren't included for their own sake but rather because Bioware wanted a "sciency" excuse to maintain the standard warrior/rogue/mage paradigm.

[chiasaur11]

It's already been brought up before, but I still really don't understand the Kaidan/Jacob hate. I think they were both well written with understandable motivations and backstories. Sure, they had remarkably little baggage but TBH that made them just come across as honest and refreshing to me compared to the other characters.


Jacob was kind of a jerk. "Say hello to EDI, the ship's AI"? Low blow.

Also, again quoting Gillen, this time at slightly greater length:

"Actually, let’s talk a little about Jacob, as I feel a little sorry for him. Yes, he’s the boring taciturn straight-man, but dramatically speaking it’s natural that he and Miranda have to take that job. If you drop someone with a lot more flair as Cerberus’ representatives, you change the nature of the organisation. Drop a Jack or a Thane, and you have a bleak, black organisation which is full of fundamentally broken people. Drop someone with crazed charisma like Mordin, and they’re loveable funsters. They wanted Cerberus to be played straight and competent, so they had to have people to play straight and competent. I also think Jacob was something of a missed opportunity as a character, if only because he’s the odd man out. By which I mean, he’s just a man.

One of the things which Mass Effect 2 is good at is in amping up the implied power of your supporting cast. These just aren’t people you’re with. These are characters of real note. On one hand, you have the scientific prodigies, designed to be perfect – whether they were created (Jack, Grunt) or trained (Thane) or both (Miranda). On the other hand, you have characters who – by their actions – have performed acts which shaped the entire universe (Zaeed as founder of one of the Mercenary organisations that hounded you, Mordin as the primary architect of the twist of the Genophage). And the ones who aren’t that, are positioned as the highest part of their species – Tali is a foremost genius, Samura as a member of a genuinely legendary order and Legion (though novelty, even if nothing else) is clearly unique – the first Geth we’ve ever talked to. Note how they re-introduced Garrus, as a mythological creature of Omega’s underworlds, preying on the cruel like Batman with a sniper-rifle. They make him alien to you, to make you think of him in a way other than simply “your old friend”. These are big people.

Jacob’s just a guy. A well trained guy who’s done some impressive things… but nothing compared to everyone else. He’s in the top .1% of humanity, I’m sure… but everyone else is something like .0000001% in their species. As such, he must feel like a complete dolt. It was easy for me to feel a little sorry for him, and be aware of what it must take to walk in this company. I suspect if they made this explicit, it may have been enough to actually endear him to more people – “I’m not as good as everyone else, but I’ve got to try” is a character motivation which resonates with most people, because that’s how most humans tend to view themselves. But they didn’t do it, and these thoughts totally didn’t stop me dumping his sorry ass when I realised I could sex a choice of not one, but two lizards. Truly, Mass Effect 2 is the game heptophiles were waiting for."

Also, Kaiden had issues. They were just boring jerk issues.



Where does this come from? So far we know literally nothing about him besides his name and two pictures.


Haven't been keeping up, then?

He's been described as the new guy in Game Informer or summat, back when his name was James Saunders and we had no idea what he looked like. He's from Earth, shirt says N-6 in the first picture so we know he's fairly but not incredibly high skill level spec-ops, mention of him being the guy who don't know anything to fill new folks in on the world in some magazine articles.



I'll admit, the proportions looked a bit off in the fist picture (arms too short) but the second one seems fine. It seems like most of the criticism of his looks (haircut, face, proportions, gorilla etc.) are just that he doesn't fit the normal male videogame protagonist molds of ruggedly handsome or pretty-boy.

No. The problem is he looks like the protagonist of Killzone. Which is a very bad thing.

Zaeed Massani has a face that was shot half off. He's as ugly as he is mean, and that's saying something.

Never heard or given a complaint about how he looks.

Vega looks like a jerk because he looks like a jerk. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Drascin]

Also, Kaiden had issues. They were just boring jerk issues.

Jerk? Kaidan was a jerk? News to me.

[Liffguard]

Jacob was kind of a jerk. "Say hello to EDI, the ship's AI"? Low blow.

One off-hand comment doesn't make for a jerk. Tali was going to meet the AI sooner or later, Jacob just brought it to her attention in a very matter-of-fact way.


Jacob’s just a guy. A well trained guy who’s done some impressive things… but nothing compared to everyone else. He’s in the top .1% of humanity, I’m sure… but everyone else is something like .0000001% in their species. As such, he must feel like a complete dolt. It was easy for me to feel a little sorry for him, and be aware of what it must take to walk in this company. I suspect if they made this explicit, it may have been enough to actually endear him to more people – “I’m not as good as everyone else, but I’ve got to try” is a character motivation which resonates with most people, because that’s how most humans tend to view themselves.

Okay, this could have been an interesting character direction, but it doesn't mean Jacob is a bad character just because they went in a different direction. Some people might feel that they need to work harder to be relevant given this situation. Some might not. I thought he summed up his own position quite well (even if the situation was different) "it doesn't change who I am or what I know." Jacob is at peace with his own position, abilities and identity. I don't see why that's an inherently bad character trait.


Also, Kaiden had issues. They were just boring jerk issues.

Elaborate please?


Haven't been keeping up, then?

He's been described as the new guy in Game Informer or summat, back when his name was James Saunders and we had no idea what he looked like. He's from Earth, shirt says N-6 in the first picture so we know he's fairly but not incredibly high skill level spec-ops, mention of him being the guy who don't know anything to fill new folks in on the world in some magazine articles.

Fair enough. Still, that's remarkably little information to go on about his actual character rather than just the role his character will fill at the beginning of the story.



No. The problem is he looks like the protagonist of Killzone. Which is a very bad thing.

Why?


Vega looks like a jerk because he looks like a jerk. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, what? You can tell which people are jerks just by looking at them? That seems remarkably judgmental.

[chiasaur11]

Jerk? Kaidan was a jerk? News to me.

He wasn't a jerk. Just boring.

His issues were jerks. "OH NO! I snapkicked a dude who totally had it coming to death! Now I have to be boring or the ladies won't like me!"

And he was a jerk in ME2. Ash was bad on Horizon too, but it was all keeping with her better qualities as well as her worse ones. She knows she looks racist for being paranoid about the council, and her family name is mud, so she has to be ultra agressive about Cerberus, Terra Firma, and the like. Bad scene, but most bits fit her.

And her letter after is nice.

Kaiden, meanwhile, is just being a dumb jerk. Further, his letter is a jerk letter about how he's dating someone else but he wants to keep Shepard hanging on. (You keep me, you keep me hanging on. You keep me... Ahem. Plumtree reference. Long story.)

And AIs just massacred Tali's unit. She is all of the space racist at them. All Quarians are. That's either a faux pas that would lose someone their job for life, or basically world class jerkery. Either way, his behavior towards Thane is uncalled for.

[kamikasei]

...I realised I could sex a choice of not one, but two lizards. Truly, Mass Effect 2 is the game heptophiles were waiting for.
Objection! Garrus is a birdosaur and Thane is a tree frog.

Wait, you all were talking about something else? Eh, the new guy looks a bit weird. The hair is silly, and the eyes are kind of staring and off-putting. But meh, it's hard to judge a character from a still model - he may look less odd when in motion.

[Liffguard]

He wasn't a jerk. Just boring.

His issues were jerks. "OH NO! I snapkicked a dude who totally had it coming to death! Now I have to be boring or the ladies won't like me!"

Boring is subjective. You find him boring, I find him a breath of fresh air. You do seem to be very...hostile to him though.


And he was a jerk in ME2. Ash was bad on Horizon too, but it was all keeping with her better qualities as well as her worse ones. She knows she looks racist for being paranoid about the council, and her family name is mud, so she has to be ultra agressive about Cerberus, Terra Firma, and the like. Bad scene, but most bits fit her.

Both characters seem to have a legitimate greivance with Shepard. Sure, we the audience know that Shepard was a) dead and b) with Cerberus for a valid reason but neither Ashley nor Kaidan know that. Horizon was a legitimate misunderstanding, not jerkery. As for the letter, never read it so can't comment.


And AIs just massacred Tali's unit. She is all of the space racist at them. All Quarians are. That's either a faux pas that would lose someone their job for life, or basically world class jerkery.

Again, Tali would have had to meet EDI eventually. You think it would be better for her to just randomly encounter her? Jacob was giving her a heads-up, simply telling her that the ship had an AI and that she should introduce herself. He didn't rub her face in it or taunt her, just casually passed on some useful information.


Either way, his behavior towards Thane is uncalled for.

Thane is an assassin. Sure, we find out later that he has hidden depths and he's trying to make the galaxy a better place but as far as Jacob knows he's still just a guy who kills people for money. Jacob's reaction certainly isn't polite but it's not entirely unreasonable.

[Fawkes]

Kaiden is boring because he has no personality and shows no emotions.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Is that because of how he was written, or because of Raphael Sbarge's voice-acting?

[chiasaur11]

Is that because of how he was written, or because of Raphael Sbarge's voice-acting?

Written.

Ever played Republic Commando? He's Scorch.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Written.

Ever played Republic Commando? He's Scorch.

Nope, never played Republic Commando. Why would you wanna play a Star Wars game where you AREN'T a Jedi? Psshh. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Are the paragon/renagade point bonuses from the class ability in ME2 permanent, or one time things?
Permanent. You'll always have that boost applied on top of the actual points you've accumulated.

Zevox

[chiasaur11]

Nope, never played Republic Commando. Why would you wanna play a Star Wars game where you AREN'T a Jedi? Psshh. :smalltongue:

Because, to quote Boss: "A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age, eh? Well, guess what, times have changed!"

Then he shanks robots and Trandoshans to death with his wrist blade.

Great friendly AI, likable squad, not being a Jedi because prequel Jedi are jerks...

Also, the squad dialog is good. Any random quip is infinitely better than any line in the prequels.

[Dienekes]

Nope, never played Republic Commando. Why would you wanna play a Star Wars game where you AREN'T a Jedi? Psshh. :smalltongue:

Cause honestly, the smugglers, soldiers, and pilots are more interesting characters. And badass normals > magic fighters with nonsense philosophy

[Worira]

Objection! Garrus is a birdosaur and Thane is a tree frog.

Wait, you all were talking about something else? Eh, the new guy looks a bit weird. The hair is silly, and the eyes are kind of staring and off-putting. But meh, it's hard to judge a character from a still model - he may look less odd when in motion.

Don't be ridiculous, Garrus is a spacecatcricket

[Psyren]

I don't have a problem with Kaidan. I definitely prefer him to Ashley, Jacob, and (shudder) Jack; he'd be a great love interest for my mshep. And I like Miranda even more than him, as a friend. But I'm not a huge fan of any of the humans really (save Shepard, of course.)

He's very well-adjusted considering what he went through in BAaT. And I never played KotOR so I don't have whatever axe you lot are carrying towards his VA as Carth, which I frankly find to be beyond silly.

[Yora]

Kaiden is boring because he has no personality and shows no emotions.

Not that Ashley is very interesting either, but when the time came, the choice was a very easy one.

I've played through ME last month and then through almost all of ME2 in half a week. And now I learn that ME3 won't be out until at least next year?! Damnation!

Jacob is okay, because he works for Cerberus now without trusting them. That makes him okay, but he's still boring.
And I havn't yet reached the end of the game, but I know before the end, I will want to shot someone for tricking me into something I didn't want to do and I would have done everything different if I had knew about the lie. And that person will be Miranda. I knew it right from the start, she will betray me. Or would betray me, if she every had pretended to be open about what she has planned for me. Fortunately, I'm through the Omega 4 relay now, and it seems a good opportunity to get rid of some people. Half of the team would never be missed by the galaxy if they don't come back.

[Somebloke]

Sorry- remind me. When did Miranda lie to you?

[Croverus]

So, got to the end of pge one, jumped to this page and top of it was - talking about Kaidan and liking him or not.

Srsly? 9 pages and people are still discussing something that should be established since the 1st game? Which means it doesn't really even belong on this thread since this is a discussion about the 3rd game that isn't out yet.

I say less arguining over who was thebest team member in 1 and 2 and more speculation on ME3. :smallamused:

[Avilan the Grey]

Sorry- remind me. When did Miranda lie to you?

Ditto: I think Yora is confusing her with someone else, but I can't figure out who? None (0) of the companions in ME2 betrays you.

[kamikasei]

I believe Yora's saying he expects to find out Miranda lied to him about something important by the time he reaches the end of ME2.

[Zorg]

I guess in her loyalty mission she tells you a lie of omisssion, but it doesn't seem that bad really.

Also given that Miranda seems to respect Shepard in later convos,

going so far to tell the Illusive Man to cram it with walnuts if you take her to the last part of the endgame

I never thought she'd betray me.


I also like Kaiden, Jacob and the Mako :smallcool:

[Psyren]

She might in ME3 though, given that
TIM knows where her sister is stashed and all,
which could really put her loyalty to the test.

...Why are we using spoiler tags anyway? I think it's reasonable to expect anyone who's coming into an ME3 thread to have played ME2 at least.

[Zorg]

It sounded to me like Yora hasn't finished ME2 yet, and the ME2 thread is probably quite old by now.

Re ME3, I'd see it more that she'd go on a murderous rampage to stop him (with Shepard) than support TIM anymore, especially given he's lost it himself by then.

[Razgriez]

Actually you'd be amazed Yora.


In truth, with ME2: (Warning! Some plot/story Spoilers ahead!)

The only person who does betraying, in party wise... is Shepherd if you choose certain actions. Examples include:

-Cheating on your love interest from ME1: Liara, is more lenient and understands, not so much true with Ashley/Kaiden with a male/female commander.
-Failing to complete Squad member loyalty missions. Even the ones given to you by characters who are at first, hard nosed and seem willing to hate/betray the commander, have personal quest that are worth it.
Miranda wants to protect her genetic twin sister from their corrupt father and his hired muscle, Jack wants to seek some closure, against the horrors afflicted to her and the other children, by Cerberus experiments, by destroying the outpost. Grunt, wants to earn some honor to claim to be a true Krogan who isn't clanless (made even better, if you saved Wrex, in the first game, or chose to keep him, via the Interactive comic in ME2)
-The only exclusion to this? Zaeed. You either have to blatantly go along with his plan, or save the civilians, and then pass a Paragon/Renegade Check, in which Shepherd reminds him, just who is in charge, and if Zaeed doesn't like it doesn't like it, he can either leave the crew, or accept a bullet to the head from Shepherd (and that's even from a Paragon Shep!) Passing the check, earns Zaeed's respect and loyalty.

-You can betray Samara during her Loyalty mission, and instead, help her evil, power hungry daughter, Morinth.... Just remember, if you do... Don't romance Morinth....
-Intentionally picking bad choices during the suicide mission to get others killed.

-In Truth, Miranda, get's better, if you work towards it. Taking options, that eventually enable you to have a romance with Miranda, tends to draw out her humanity, and her honest, humble thanks in many of these situations.
-End of Game Spoiling info about Miranda follows:
Play as a Paragon Shep, Complete and succeed in Miranda's Loyalty mission (Romance not required), and retain her trust during the fight between her and Jack. Then take her along with you in your party, to fight the final boss, and choose to go against The Illusive Man's wishes, deciding to detonate the Collector Base. He will rage at Shepherd, and order Miranda to stop Shep from doing that, at which point, the good Cerberus cheerleader, always obeying I.M.'s order's Miranda, tells him flat out, that she agrees with Shepherd, and that if he doesn't like that, he can go kindly shove his orders elsewhere, and accept this as her resignation from Cerberus, before cuing the famous "Oops, it seems we're having some technical difficulties" cut off, giving massive satisfaction at watching the Illusive Man's reaction.

[Psyren]

I don't think intentionally flubbing the SM counts as betrayal though. It can only be metagaming, as Shepard would have no in-universe way of knowing, say, that Jacob or a disloyal techie would succeed just enough in the vents to get everyone through alive, but fail just enough to get themselves killed.

It's even more of a stretch to expect a bad fire team leader to keep everyone in the squad alive but get themselves shot up right before the door closes.

You the player can of course set things up like this, but having Shepard do it that way would require an immersion-breaking level of omniscience.