Need Help with feats for a bizzare (mostly warlock) build

[Mathemagician7]

Hey everyone, any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

So here's my situation. I'm playing in a campaign (3.5 including complete arcane, warrior, adventurer, and divine, and other things by special DM permission only)

my character is a human with the following levels: barbarian 1, sorcerer 1 (true strike & feather fall), warlock 3, dragon disciple 2. (my DM house ruled a "practiced invoker" feat for me). I also just got a HF warlock lvl.

the next part is long, but if you're wondering how or why I have such a weird class progression, read on.


I wanted to make a character with some RP flavor because I usually just min-max everything to death. The idea was that he would be some guy who has two blood-lines (demonic & draconic) from distant ancestors on different sides and this would cause serious internal conflict. He's got a CE side, and a LG side, and he winds up CG, but he's constantly struggling to suppress his darker nature - which leads him to be overzealously good . . . most of the time. The Barbarian & Warlock levels are just the mechanical manifestations of the characters demonic ansecstry, reflecting it's wild, destructive tendencies. Eventually they would manifest as Frenzied Berserker levels. The Sorc level is really just for true strike and to qualify for Dragon disciple - his other bloodline.

The original idea was to get 4 lvls of dragon disciple for the extra spells per day (for using true strike) and the +4 str, then take 5 levels of frenzied berserker, for imp power attack, putting me at lvl 13, with plently of room to either fall to darkness and max out FB by lvl 20 or redeem myself and max DD, which gives the half-dragon template, which changes your alignment to the dragon ancestors (in this case LG - squelching my warlock abilities, rage & frenzy, but saving the characters soul and virtue).

My main combat tactic was to cast True strike (verbal components only - no ASF, woo hoo!) then on the next round charge in using leap attack & maxed power attack to obliterate one target with my glaive. I also use mobile spellcaster to invoke hideous blow during the charge attack (I know it's not RAW, but my DM allows it), and between the Leaps & Bounds invocation & the bonus from barbarian fast movement I never miss my jump checks and with True Strike I only miss my attack on natural 1s. With practiced invoker, my hideous blow adds 4d6 damage to my attack, so it's pretty harsh when I land this attack.

My DM worked out a cool mechanic to dictate whether I am on the good path or the bad path (and thus what my next level would be). Every time I use rage or shoot an EB I get a dark point. Hideous blow is ok though. If my dark points go past a certain number, then I have to take my next level in a 'bad' class, rather than continue dragon disciple.

due to the mechanic mentioned above I was forced to take an 'evil' class after only 2 of the 4 DD levels I wanted, before I qualified for frenzied berserker, and I didn't want warlock or barbarian, so my DM took pity on me and waived some of the prereqs for hellfire warlock. So now I have a level of that. I'm also going to get stuck next level taking another lvl of hellfire (at which point I might as well finish HF and take the third level too), not that that's a bad thing, but this completely screws up my original plan, and now I'm trying to think of ways to enhance my abilties as a warlock.

I'm considering the following feats for my next lvl (9): ability focus Eldritch blast, spell penetration, maximize spell-like ability, multi-attack (I do have 2 claws, a bite, and armor spikes, and next lvl I'll get my first iterative attack), or greater resiliency (which will be nice if I end up taking a frenzied berserker level to help avoid frenzying from dmg. Due to my ridiculous multi-classing I have a very high will save (i think 13 or so at the moment), so beating frenzy's 10 + dmg DC isn't out of the question.

any thoughts? I'm interested to hear pros/cons of the feats I mentioned or other feats I haven't mentioned. Also, has anyone ever seen anything saying what level spell a hellfire blast is equivalent to or does it just inherit the lvl 1 from EB/whatever shape invocation u use?

thanks!

P.S. when considering multiattack, picture this: Frenzy + Rage + 18 natural str, plus armor spikes (3 attacks - first, haste, iterative at -5), bite with full str, 2 claw attacks with 1/2 str each. of course I don't have frenzied berserker levels yet, but I already wasted 3/4 of the feats in preperation for it, and my DM is waiving the 4th.

[Diarmuid]

As for recommendations, it really depends on what you want to do.

If you're going to go the melee route, then you arent really going to be focusing on your EB that much and it doesnt really make sense to keep going in HFW (unless you're using the eldritch claw invocation from Dragon Mag).

I dont really see how you can really focus on your EB much as the damage is just going to be piddly. Unless your "Practived Invoker" is actually getting you more damage dice, which would be very different than the "Practiced Spellcaster" feats which just adjust your caster level and dont get you any actual bonuses from having a higher CL.

All in all, your situation seems very garbled, and mixed in with forced requirements and waiving of others...it's very hard to give you any kind of advice.

Pick a direction, and then see how best to get there.

[Drelua]

I don't know anything about character optimization, but I do know about roleplaying, and I can see a few flaws in your characters story. Firstly, The dragon disciple is completely unnecessary as the 3.5 sorcerer already gets his powers from draconic ancestry. Also, it is simply not true that all half-dragons are of the same alignment as their dragon ancestor. Looks like you're more accustomed to power-building. I apologize if this seems insulting, that was not my intention at all.

[Person_Man]

Human Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 1/Warlock 3/Dragon Disciple 2/Hellfire Warlock 1?

That's a really, really really weak progression. There is no reason to dip into Sorcerer, because you can easily use a wands for low level spells. And there is no reason to combine Barbarian/Dragon Disciple with Warlock/Hellfire Warlock, because one is a melee build and the other is ranged.

Is there a chance you could just rebuild yourself into a Warlock 5/Hellfire Warlock 3 (or if you're into the melee side of things and want claws, a Totemist 8?) Or are you just looking for Feat advice?

[Mathemagician7]

Drelua: no offense taken.

PersonMan: yes, I know it's a weak progression. like I said in my OP, the idea was to be a human-artillery strike by combining true strike, improved power attack, leap attack, frenzy & rage. 30 str, + 20 to hit, all base attack pumped into damage at 6:1. after the initial attack, use frenzy & rage along with armor spikes, two claws, and a bite to rip apart anything still standing.

I know there are a million better builds - I've made many, this one was mostly for RP flavor. Now that my build has been interrupted, I want to try to stick with it, for the sake of character development and story continuity.

In response to one of the first questions - yes, my DMs homebrewed 'practiced invoker' feat DOES grant extra damage dice on my eldritch blast, so I'm not behind in my progression at all. I realize I'm hopelessly stretched between a melee build and a ranged build. One reason I'm thinking of sticking with HF warlock is for HF sheild (that way I can still make the most of a melee build with lots of warlock abilities - before you ask, no eldritch glaive is not allowed). I've been rolling really well for hitpoints - i think I was up to 75 at level 7, so I can take a little punishment. I think I want to continue my primary tactic, followed by devestating enemies with HF sheild when they attack, followed by shredding them with my spikes & natural attacks (especially since armor spikes dont use a hand, allowing me to use both claws).

I wish Greater Resiliency granted 2DR instead of 1, i'd probably just go with that, but 1 more is such a drop in the bucket . . . it really only made sense when I was planning to use it to help make the save to avoid frenzying.

In any case, I'm planning to stick out this terrible build for a while, for the sake of the charcter/story. I'm just not sure what to take for my next feat.

Thank you all for your input.

[NecroRick]

You know, what this build needs now in terms of feats is some Fey Heritage goodness. One of the main benefits will be that the DR/cold iron will explicitly stack with your existing Warlock DR/cold iron (if any)

[Mathemagician7]

I saw the Fey Heritage feats once, they are pretty sweet, and deserve the frequent mentionings they get.

Even if my DM would otherwise allow it (heck, he let me have HF warlock, so it can't be too far out of the question) I explicitly told him that I have demonic anscestry, rather than Fey anscestry. The question actually came up when we were discussing the character concept and I stupidly said, "no, no, I know warlocks CAN be empowered by Fey, but mine is definately demonic"

We've really been playing up the demonic blood as a part of my character that drives him to be wild, destructive, and sadistically bloodthirsty (which is why he's always trying to repress it). I don't really envision that coming from a Fey anscestor.

Good Idea though - mechanically that is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

I was leaning toward Maximize Spell-like ability, because in another level (when I get the feat) I would have 5d6 EB + 4d6 HF. Maxed, that would add 54 damage to my leap-attacking true strike attack, which already adds 6 from strength and 24 from power attack. (not to mention d10 + d6 + 1 for the actual weapon . . .glaive of shock if you're wondering)

However - my DM ruled yesterday after my OP that since he can't find a listing for what level Hellfire blast should be (and I asked for a ruling one way or another) he says he's calling it the equivalent of 5th lvl spell.

So my invoker level will only be 9, and maximize requires 16 for a 5th lvl SLA.

The major way that I am behind a pure warlock is all the invocations I don't have, so I don't need ability focus as much a real warlock might. The only one I have with a save is hellrime. ::shrug::

Man, I guess the reason I'm so stuck is that I have a terrible build, with a schizophrenic party role. I never use my claws, because I usually use my reach weapon (to avoid ops while casting) with hideous blow. Since I have such low BAB from all the multi-classing I haven't been giving up iterative attacks to use HB either, so it made sense. Besides, with Practiced invoker giving me extra dmg dice, my HB usually does more damage than I could do in a round with a claw, bite, & armor spike attack (can't use the other claw most of the time unless I drop my glaive).

It's not that I have a good tactic. . . more like I just built the character so all the tactics that DON'T suck are unavailable, so by comparison my remaining choices seem cooler. . . . uggg . . .

This much is certain: I want to try to stay melee, and if I stop using Hideous blow that's ok - I'm about to get iterative attacks, so a standard action attack is going to be less attractive - it's always there as a backup, and I can still make use of all that EB dmg with hellfire sheild.. . . so it's not COMPLETELY pointless to keep stacking warlock levels, just mostly useless.

That said, what should I pick up to try to muddle along in melee?

Somebody mentioned eldritch claw . . . how does that work, generally? also where exactly is it from?

[Diarmuid]

Hellfire doesnt change the level of the blast in any way. The blast's level is determined by whatever essence/shapes you apply to it.

[Mathemagician7]

Hellfire doesnt change the level of the blast in any way. The blast's level is determined by whatever essence/shapes you apply to it.

hmmm . . . that was what I thought. It's implicit in the HF 'lock page, but I was looking for a place where that is stated explicitly.

I may have painted myself into an even tighter corner by pushing my DM to make a ruling on that last night. Now that he's ruled it is like an essence invocation with an equivalent-spell-level of 5 or so, I doubt he'll reverse his decision without seeing the rule in black & white.

I really shot myself in the foot here. I shouldn't have told him I planned totake Max SLA, i should've just complained that HF sheild has a low save DC (because he thinks i'm too powerful - none of the other players are optimized very well so by comparison I guess I look mighty?). I keep having to remind him that a simple fighter could out-damage me if he just stood still and did Full Attacks for two rounds. I need to do all this ridiculous stuff, run away, cast true strike, run BACK, jump, power attack, hideous blow, etc. . . I'm not OP at all. I just do two rounds worth of damage in one round, so sometimes it looks like I'm OP with a casual glance. To be fair to the DM, in the last fight we were on a ship being boarded by a larger pirate vessel with more than a dozen well armed pirates, one narrow, blocked plank connecting the ships and a horrifying BBEG captain aboard the other ship shooting awful things at us. I ran and jumped to the other ship and basically one-shotted the captain, and cleaved right through another guy to do it.

[Etrivar]

If your fellow PC's make this build look mighty, they are quite far into the realms of anti-optimization.

[Mathemagician7]

Don't get me started on the other PCs in my group.

a little off the topic of feat selection: The 'healer' in my group is a favored soul who took monkey grip, exotic proficiency bastard sword, and cleave (but NOT augment heal). He is really just obsessed with becoming gigantic and swinging a huge sword. I told him there are better ways (like cleric -> better armor and righteous might 1 lvl sooner) but he isn't interested.

There's nothing mighty about my build at all, it's just that I load a lot of damage into one attack, so it's easy to lose sight of how bad it is when all that sticks out in the DMs memory is that big number.

We just played tonight. Only one fight . . . I ended up getting seperated from my group defending some NPCs from 3 monsters in a tight space. no room to use my fast movement, true strike, or leap attack. I couldn't hit a darn thing cause my BAB sucks so bad. The DM HAS to give the monsters good AC or my divine powered 'healer' will just drop everything like its nothing, but with hard to hit monsters I'm useless unless I use touch attacks or true strike.

I eventually beat the three monsters I was fighting, but it took way longer than it should've and I even ended up leveling at the end of the session from RP experience. I don't have to pick my next level or my next feat til next session, but I'm really depressed about the mess I've made of my character.

Heck, the first character I made when we started this campaign was just monk 1 + rogue X . . . with ascetic rouge. That was way better. Flurry of sneak attacks FTW! Also, feint to deliver sneak + stun (harder DC from ascetic rogue) then once they're stunned you get sneak dmg on the rest of the flurry. . . . hooray!

I thought it would be fun to play this character . . . and it is . . . but . . . I dunno. I usually min-max so hard, and this character is about the least optimal thing I've ever made. He's doing fine really, I guess I just expect quasi-godlike powers by this point because I'm used to optimized builds.

Part of the problem was that I knew how bad my healer was gonna be, so I looked for ways to load up on DR, Nat AC, and D12s for HD.

Shoulda just played a cleric and never looked back.


Back to the question of feat choices: I did look up eldritch claws. It's kinda cool. Could allow me to get some more bang for my buck outta EB, but I still have trouble hitting things. I'm thinking of picking up walk unseen, for flatfooted & +2, but that invocation is still another level away and I'm wondering if I can do better.

I think i'm going to stick with HF warlock for my next level. The damage is just too juicy to give up and the idea of using eldritch claws to do that damage twice in a round is tantalizing. Of course I'll probably never hit anything :) so it won't matter.

Worst case scenario: I can fall back on blasting stuff with touch attacks.

any thoughts on how to improve my ability to hit? obviously a wand of divine power would solve a lot of my problems, but that's going to be tough to find in this campaign.

[Mathemagician7]

I had an Idea. Eldritch claws --> allows me to make two claw attacks with EB or Hellfire blast each.

Dual Strike: allows me to attack with two weapons as a single standard action using the same attack roll.

True strike: +20 to hit with my next single attack roll.

Sure it's wonky, but my whole build is ridiculous. Maybe this is a way to salvage it. Alternating rounds of casting true strike and hitting with Eldritch dmg twice is basically back on par with a warlock who just attacks every turn. (but now I can actually hit stuff)

it would actually exceed a pure warlock in one or two aspects: if I then take maximize spell-like ability, I only have to use 1 of the 3 uses per day and only burn 1 point of con to hit someone with two maximzed hellfire blasts.

also if I take walk unseen as my next invocation, I don't actually have to reveal myself to the enemy until round three, at which point whatever I attack should be dead.

side note:doing 144 dmg in one attack by lvl 12 - slightly better than casting harm. . . . . shoulda played a cleric :)