Defending woes

[Mango Fox]

(somewhat inspired by this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206108))

It seems like every time I hear talk of "tanking" in 3.5, the consensus is that the only way to do it as a martial character is to become large and use a reach weapon so that no enemies can get past without taking attacks of opportunity. I have a problem with this though.

Let's say that, in real life, I'm playing a game that involves a tree dedicated as a "safe zone". My task in the game is to prevent other players from touching the tree. Now, I have no way to magically enlarge myself, and bringing a spiked chain onto the playing field and "tagging" people with it would be a tad ridiculous. Yet, somehow, I'm still able to make a touch attack against enemy players before they touch the tree!

What's the difference? The fact that I can actually move in real life! I'm not "locked" in place for a six-second round while my enemy does whatever he wants. I'm able to constantly keep myself between him and the tree, and then make a touch attack as soon as he's in reach. As far as I can tell, the closest thing to this in 3.5 is to ready a move action to intercept someone as soon as they get within X squares of a person I'm defending, in which case I still don't get to attack them that round.

My question is, what's a good way to get around this issue? Would it be worth homebrewing a new feat or action? The Combat Patrol feat from PF would help a bit, but it raises the issue that you have to be a level 5 character just to do something that the average commoner can do in real life.

[Diarmuid]

Well, the other issue is that you're not simply trying to Touch those same people in D&D. And in theory, those same people trying to make it to the tree are also fully capable of doing grevious harm to you if you let your guard down.

As the originator of that thread, I think my intent got lost in the wording. I was actually more interested in ways to "Taunt" than to "Tank", to borrow the mmorpg vernacular.

[Midnight_v]

Well, the other issue is that you're not simply trying to Touch those same people in D&D. And in theory, those same people trying to make it to the tree are also fully capable of doing grevious harm to you if you let your guard down.

As the originator of that thread, I think my intent got lost in the wording. I was actually more interested in ways to "Taunt" than to "Tank", to borrow the mmorpg vernacular.

Oh wow, you really were looking for a taunt?
Well there is a killer melee gnome that has a taunt the prc gives a power called flourish and goad. I think goad is the on that lets you do that.
Here I think. Killer Melee gnome (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny,_But_Youre_Dead:_the_other,_melee_Ki ller_Gnome,_for_your_pleasure.).
I only link you to that because I rember the title but not the specific class/prc combination.

Actually here it is:

Blade Bravo 1! You get Flourish and Goad. Flourish lets you add your class level to Bluff to feint--meh, you're no Invisible Blade. Goad lets you, as a move action, force a creature to make a Will save (DC 10 + 12 your character levels + CHA); if it fails, when it starts its next turn, you are the only creature it can make melee attacks against. A lot of things only have melee attacks. Additionally, Bravo gives you +2 to the DC for 5 ranks of Bluff.
Sorry about the other thread, I really didn't realize you were looking for the goad power.

[Zaranthan]

You're looking for the Partial Charge action, which lets you move up to your speed and make a melee attack at the end as a standard action (which you can ready). If two people try to get to your tree in the same six second span, you're going to miss one of them, but I find that's true in Real Life as well.

[Seerow]

Oh wow, you really were looking for a taunt?
Well there is a killer melee gnome that has a taunt the prc gives a power called flourish and goad. I think goad is the on that lets you do that.
Here I think. Killer Melee gnome (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny,_But_Youre_Dead:_the_other,_melee_Ki ller_Gnome,_for_your_pleasure.).
I only link you to that because I rember the title but not the specific class/prc combination.

Actually here it is:
Sorry about the other thread, I really didn't realize you were looking for the goad power.

Goad is actually a feat that is relatively easy for anyone to get.


Edit: Apparently that build uses the Blade Bravo PrC though, not familiar with it off hand so its goad may be different.

[Curmudgeon]

You're looking for the Partial Charge action, which lets you move up to your speed and make a melee attack at the end as a standard action (which you can ready).
Nope. You can only use a partial charge when you're incapable of taking more than a standard action in a round. Since you can take a move action before you use Ready, you don't satisfy that requirement.

[Midnight_v]

Apparently they reprinted "Goad" in the mini's handbook as a feat.


Goad (http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1238-goad.html)

A Psywar using(not abusing) synchronicity could get off interupting actions on opponents.

The Eternal blade can take his action as an immediate action, as can any gish or build with access to celerity though it dazes after wards.. ymmv.

[Urpriest]

Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202126) is what you're looking for.Characters gain melee reach as they level to represent their increased mobility.

[Mango Fox]

Nope. You can only use a partial charge when you're incapable of taking more than a standard action in a round. Since you can take a move action before you use Ready, you don't satisfy that requirement.
Regardless, I don't know how much it would hurt to allow it in certain cases. Maybe with a clause that you can't make a partial charge if you've already moved any distance.


Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202126) is what you're looking for.Characters gain melee reach as they level to represent their increased mobility.
Oh wow, I've never even seen that. I guess that's what I get for only browsing the 3.5 section!

[Person_Man]

One somewhat limited but still useful option is the Undermountain Tactics feat (Dungeonscape pg 46). It has several useful maneuvers. One of them allows you to block line of sight from enemies (but not allies) when you are standing next to 2 or more adjacent walls (ie, standing in front of an ally in a corridor or tunnel).

Basically it prevents enemies from making ranged attacks or spells through you to attack your allies when you're in most dungeons.

[Dragonsoul]

There is a Spell Compendium Bard Spell that Forces a creature to attack you for a few rounds...

[Diarmuid]

Goad was listed as in my original thread, along with the Knight's Challenge ability.

Neither is really that great an option with the Cha requirement and the 1/2 level thing.

I seemed to recall seeing something in the d20 SW Sage forums about a Jedi build that was based around making everyone attack you, granted then the Jedi avoided all the dmg through various shenanigans. Anyone know what that mechanic is/was? Maybe I can talk to my DM about making something similar.

[Zaranthan]

Nope. You can only use a partial charge when you're incapable of taking more than a standard action in a round. Since you can take a move action before you use Ready, you don't satisfy that requirement.

Ah, I had misremembered the wording.

Reading it over again, RAW dictates that you could ready a partial charge if you were under the effects of a slow spell, but not if you're unimpeded. As that is patent nonsense, I'd call Mango Fox's suggestion a fair ruling to present to any reasonable DM. The idea is to prevent people from making dogleg charges without the appropriate class features (acrobatic charge and its ilk).

[ffone]

Huh, that never occurred to be before - that since being Slowed or Staggered doesn't change the fact that you can ready an action as a standard action, it allows you to ready an action to move + attack (i.e. partial charge), which you can't normally do. Lol!