Building Ganon/dorf

[MesiDoomstalker]

I need help making him. Its for a Gestalt 3.5 campaign and he will be one of the final bosses, most likly the second or third before the BBEG. He will be paired along with Jafar (yes the one from Aladdin) who is a 16 Sorcerer/ 10Mindebender/ 26 Wizard (ECL 26). Jafar's Sorcerer spells will focus mainly on enchantments with each level haveing at least one blaster option. His Wizard selection will be many buffs and utility and several blasting.

Jafar will buff both of them heavily before the fight and he will supplment that with Cleric buffs. He will be a Cleric/Crusader around 24-28 in level. Currently, I need possible PrC, feat selection, spell selection, manuevre selection, and diety/cause selection. As part of the campaign story he is actually subserviant to Vecna but he doesn't have to worship him, he could worship another appropriat evil diety or cause for better domain selections.

Money is no object for his equipment as I don't expect my players to have more than an hour between this fight and the final fight and thus need every bit of advantage they can muster (Jafar already has nearly 1,000,000 in equipment).

I do expect him to turn into Beast Ganon but this is not someting his class combination can do naturally. I'm going to make it a special SLA of Shapechange limited to Beast Ganon and Ganondorf only. But that is for the Hombrew forum.

Any help or advice would be much apprieciated. Thanks!

[Calintares]

Is there any specific version of Ganondorf you're after?

Anyways, some thoughs:

- He ought to have a good damage reduction/silver or holy
- He must have perform (organ)
- It would fit very well if he had a high bluff/diplomacy/intimidate as he has actually achieved most of his victories by getting other people to do his work for him e.g. Agahnim/king of Hyrule etc. What about giving him imperious commands as a way do demonstrate how incredibly paralyzingly frightening the guy is?

[mootoall]

Cleric has to be one side, definitely. Perhaps Antipaladin on the other, if you don't mind using PF material.

[Rogue Shadows]

Ganondorf from Ocarina...

Sorcerer. He's a sorcerer. Probably a few levels in Rogue, maybe, but mostly Sorcerer. Might want to use the Battle Sorcerer viariant from Unearthed Arcana.

As for Ganon from Ocarina...

A smaller Tarrasque dual-wielding bastard swords.

[Larpus]

Cleric?

I've always seen him as a Fighter/Wizard of sorts, focused on demon-summoning, Cleric works, but from his modus operanti he always looked like someone who researched the stuff he has instead of receiving it via faith.

[mootoall]

Archivist, then. He needs access to Divine spells.

[Prime32]

There was a build floating around which replicated all of OoT Ganondorf's feats as a 20th level warlock. Including creating Iron Knuckles.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Is there any specific version of Ganondorf you're after?

Anyways, some thoughs:

- He ought to have a good damage reduction/silver or holy
- He must have perform (organ)
- It would fit very well if he had a high bluff/diplomacy/intimidate as he has actually achieved most of his victories by getting other people to do his work for him e.g. Agahnim/king of Hyrule etc. What about giving him imperious commands as a way do demonstrate how incredibly paralyzingly frightening the guy is?

I am definatly going to give him high bluff/diplomacy/intimdate and the same for Jafar. Theres a reason I'm pairing them. There methods are similar and background as well. (Manipulators in a desert setting) Perform (Organ) would be funny but unless we have skill points to spare, I'd rather not. Its a high powered game, the near final bosses should be optimized very well. He will definatly have large DR which may, may not, be replicable for an opitmizing player.

Also, I'm looking mainly at Ocarina but anything canon would be useful. Especially if it gives him an upper hand.

I'm not familiar with Imperious Commands, whats it from?


Cleric has to be one side, definitely. Perhaps Antipaladin on the other, if you don't mind using PF material.

I don't have any PF material to utilize so unfortunatly, no. But I'm curious about why you think Cleric? Agian his cleric side won't be shown much during the fight besides buffs but he gets access to spells that Jafar wouldn't.


Ganondorf from Ocarina...

Sorcerer. He's a sorcerer. Probably a few levels in Rogue, maybe, but mostly Sorcerer. Might want to use the Battle Sorcerer viariant from Unearthed Arcana.

The main issue with this is he is supposed to be the melee threat in this fight while Jafar sits back blasting, buffing, debuffing, and other magic tricks. Ganondorf shouldn't be doing too much casting during the fight.

As for Ganon from Ocarina...

A smaller Tarrasque dual-wielding bastard swords.

The main issue with Sorcerer is he is supposed to be the melee threat in this fight while Jafar sits back blasting, buffing, debuffing, and other magic tricks. Ganondorf shouldn't be doing too much casting during the fight.

While I like the idea of making him into a Tarrasque, I'm thinking something more conditioned specifically for this, thus my mention of the Homebrew forums.


Cleric?

I've always seen him as a Fighter/Wizard of sorts, focused on demon-summoning, Cleric works, but from his modus operanti he always looked like someone who researched the stuff he has instead of receiving it via faith.

My thoughts exactly. Actually summoning several Demons (he will be LE) as back up for this battle will surely make him a much bigger threat. Cleric and a Summoning specialized PrC maybe? Does anybody know of such a PrC?


Archivist, then. He needs access to Divine spells.

What book is Archivist in? If I have it, I'll take a look.

[BillyBobJoe]

This (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872510/Hmm,_kind_of_a_humourous_challenge._:P?post_id=338 456954#338456954), but Gestalt it with something melee, and advance to epic. I think there may have been epic invocations somewhere. Does anyone know?

[mootoall]

Archivist is in Heroes of Horror. The Antipaladin is on the Pathfinder SRD, the address of which is, I believe, http://www.d20pfsrd.com

[MesiDoomstalker]

This (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872510/Hmm,_kind_of_a_humourous_challenge._:P?post_id=338 456954#338456954), but Gestalt it with something melee, and advance to epic. I think there may have been epic invocations somewhere. Does anyone know?

Thanks BillyBobJoe! A few questions and comments:


What and where are flaws and how do they work? Specifically Noncombatant, sounds opposite of what I need.
He has many craft feats which he won't need at all. He will have dozens of subserviant magi who can craft stuff for him. Any suggestions for replacment feats?
I'd also remove Deflect Arrows because I know none of my players will be using a bow in this fight. They have one as back up but they will bring their A game and really shouldn't use a back up weapon.


Know that I see this Warlock build, I can make him a Warlock. Now any suggestions for the melee side or reworking the invocations or feats?

[dgnslyr]

Well, he's a skilled swordsman, in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and he's typically also a powerful spellcaster, so something gishy, maybe? Since this is gestalt, though, there's nothing stopping you from going full-caster on one side and full-initiator on the other.

The downside, of course, is that the action economy is still a limiting factor, but Cleric//Crusader/RKV laughs at such silly notions! This gives you access to a very broad spell-list as well as powerful initiating. Of course, he's rather... incompatible with RKV fluff, but as the DM, you can always waive it, yes?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Well, he's a skilled swordsman, in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and he's typically also a powerful spellcaster, so something gishy, maybe? Since this is gestalt, though, there's nothing stopping you from going full-caster on one side and full-initiator on the other.

The downside, of course, is that the action economy is still a limiting factor, but Cleric//Crusader/RKV laughs at such silly notions! This gives you access to a very broad spell-list as well as powerful initiating. Of course, he's rather... incompatible with RKV fluff, but as the DM, you can always waive it, yes?

Maybe? I'm not sure what RKV is and though I love ToB classes I usually avoid using them for NPCs as they are more of a hassle than spellcasters. But considering what NPC I'm building, Crusader would be prudent. I already gave Crusader's perfect BAB (one weak point in my opinion).

Could you tell me what and where RKV is? That would be helpful.

Also, this is my first time DMing and though I've scoured many books, I haven't looked through and remembered everything so it would be easier to just state what books various things are in.

If I give him Cleric, I might give him Craft Contigent Spell and use it to have Contingent Empowered Heal. Thoughts?

[dgnslyr]

Ruby Knight WINdicator is a Crusader prestige class that requires Turn Undead and a teensy bit of divine casting to enter, if I remember correctly. Its main shtick is, in addition to being a full-initiator class and a 6/10 caster, can burn those Turn Undeads into extra actions, which can be ridiculous when you've got plenty of bonus Turn Undead attempts. Even without multiple Nightsticks (a cheap item that grants extra Turn attempts), it's not too difficult to get all the Turn attempts you could ask for.

The caster level boosts really aren't needed unless you plan on spending those "free" CLs on something other than cleric, which might be a good way of dipping into other class levels, like a Warblade dip for the save replacers or IRON HEART SUUUURGE.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you're talking about something like Gannondorf from WindWaker, then you'll need TWF chain.

Here's an idea for you: Wildshape Ranger/MoMF/Warhulk

Basically, he starts off as Human dual-wielding scimitars. Then you piss him off and he shifts into some obnoxiously Large (or larger) form and Warhulk activates, giving massive Str bonuses, the ability to hit multiple PC's per swing, and if you choose your forms carefully, you can be immune to quite a few things.

Alternately, he can start off as something like a half-black-dragon War Troll (pretty much immunity to damage unless you have Trollbane around), then he shifts into something truly outgrageous. Since War Trolls are Large size, Warhulk works well again. Give him something with Skillful so he has a good chance of hitting PC's. Have him Polymorphed into a Human for his first form. Then, when the PC's dispel him, or when he gets pissed and dismisses the effect... GWARRRRR!

[MesiDoomstalker]

Just looked at the class. Non-gestalt its really difficult to get into, but this is Gestalt :smallamused:

I like this idea. He has the cleric buffs and healing, something Jafar won't have and the tankiness of Crusaders. And with the PrC he can use many more maneuvre's than before.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If you're talking about something like Gannondorf from WindWaker, then you'll need TWF chain.

Here's an idea for you: Wildshape Ranger/MoMF/Warhulk

Basically, he starts off as Human dual-wielding scimitars. Then you piss him off and he shifts into some obnoxiously Large (or larger) form and Warhulk activates, giving massive Str bonuses, the ability to hit multiple PC's per swing, and if you choose your forms carefully, you can be immune to quite a few things.

Alternately, he can start off as something like a half-black-dragon War Troll (pretty much immunity to damage unless you have Trollbane around), then he shifts into something truly outgrageous. Since War Trolls are Large size, Warhulk works well again. Give him something with Skillful so he has a good chance of hitting PC's. Have him Polymorphed into a Human for his first form. Then, when the PC's dispel him, or when he gets pissed and dismisses the effect... GWARRRRR!

If I remember correctly, in human form he uses a single, very large sword. He doesn't start duel wielding till he becomes Ganon.

Again, I have no idea what half those things are so point me to the books if you please.

Also, hes human, he can't be a half-black dragon War Troll. I want optimization but not at complete disregard for well established fluff/fact.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Just looked at the class. Non-gestalt its really difficult to get into, but this is Gestalt :smallamused:

I like this idea. He has the cleric buffs and healing, something Jafar won't have and the tankiness of Crusaders. And with the PrC he can use many more maneuvre's than before.

Hard to get into with non-gestalt? Cleric 4/crusader 1. Cleric 4/rogue 1 if you don't mind spending two feats so it's easier to meet skill requirements. I don't consider that hard.

Also, why is there a difference between Ganon and Ganondorf?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Hard to get into with non-gestalt? Cleric 4/crusader 1. Cleric 4/rogue 1 if you don't mind spending two feats so it's easier to meet skill requirements. I don't consider that hard.

Also, why is there a difference between Ganon and Ganondorf?

Sorry my definition of difficult requires 2+ classes to get into a PrC. I don't really like dipping/multiclassing but thats just me. Its a difference of opinion, that is all. No need to fight.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If I remember correctly, in human form he uses a single, very large sword. He doesn't start duel wielding till he becomes Ganon.

Again, I have no idea what half those things are so point me to the books if you please.

Also, hes human, he can't be a half-black dragon War Troll. I want optimization but not at complete disregard for well established fluff/fact.

Which version are you talking about, then? WindWaker uses twin swords. OoT Ganon uses ranged attacks you need to reflect back at him and is far more a caster than a meat shield.

War Hulk is found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a). Basically, gets huge strength bonuses for being large size, and also gets the ability to hit everything within reach as an attack action. Tons of fun when you pair with the Skillful weapon enhancement (and can be applied to a Necklace of Natural Attacks) to give him a flat 3/4 BAB.

Also, he was never 'human'. Even in OoT he was a different, though similar, race.

In the original gold-cartridge Legend of Zelda, he was always the pig-monster.

It wasn't until LTTP that he had a quasi-human form, and even that was the wizard Aghnim, whom he possessed (in other words, it wasn't really him). His real form was, again, the pig-demon.

In OoT, he was of the same race as those chicks on the other side of the river you have to use Epona to jump across. In fact, he was their king, for being the only male of the generation. He was also more of a caster than a beatstick until he turned into the beast version.

The only version of Gannon/dorf which wasn't primarily a caster was the WindWaker version, who dual-wielded large blades. He was also much larger than most adults, even taking into consideration that you were a kid at the time, which means of a different race.

The question is: Do you want him to be a meaningful threat to the party? Have him be a Shapeshifted half-dragon War troll, so that he looks human. Then, when he gets pissed off, his 'beast version' is actually his native form. It most accurately represents his alternate form, to my opinion.

[PollyOliver]

Hard to get into with non-gestalt? Cleric 4/crusader 1. Cleric 4/rogue 1 if you don't mind spending two feats so it's easier to meet skill requirements. I don't consider that hard.

Shoot, just take the trickery domain, which is nice anyway, and fill up on intimidate when you take your crusader level.

[dgnslyr]

Well, he's got an entire Cleric spell list to choose from, isn't there something that can give him Polymorph or Shapechange or some kind of transformation? Animal domain gets Shapechange, but that's a waste of a perfectly good domain...

[MesiDoomstalker]

@Shneeky
I grant he may not be human. But he is definatly not anything you suggested. I also mentioned I was focusing more on Ocarina than anything else. (I've only played Ocarina and Twilight Princess). As for his 'disguise' its never good to have to rely on something as a disguise as PC's have an annoying habit of removing said disguises early.

@dngslyr
Like I said initially, Ganon-form does not have to be something his class combination to do. I'm expecting to make it special.

[Calintares]

Imperious commands (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070430a&page=2) is a feat from Drow of the underdark that allows one to use the intimidate skill in combat in order to get the opponent to cower, thus denying them any action. If one can find a way to use intimidate as a move/swift action it's a good way to completely lock down the opposition. The downside is that you're only allowed to do it against opponents that you threaten in melee combat.

[Cracklord]

Cleric has to be one side, definitely. Perhaps Antipaladin on the other, if you don't mind using PF material.

If you want to go that way, I'd go Druid/Rogue - Blackguard. Druid for divine spells and wildshape, Rogue to remind you all that he's the Thiefking and he's always stealing, Blackguard because it seems appropriate. For race, make him a half-ogre, to take care of size, muscle mass and the rest. Then min-max, as this is about as far from optimized as can be.

[GoblinArchmage]

I would say either Cleric or Archivist. Every game that he has been in explicitly states that he is a powerful spellcaster and his occasional use of armor kind of disqualifies Wizard. Yes, the games call him a Sorcerer and a Wizard, but that's fluff. Cleric works for pretty much any version of him, as that way he can cast high level spells and do well in melee. He definately should be able to cast epic level spells, so too many levels without an increase in caster level would hurt. As for giving him the ability to change between a Gerudo and a pig-like demon, I think it would be with an item. Homebrew some rules for the Triforce of Power, which is what gave him the ability to switch between those two forms in "Ocarina of Time."

"A Link to the Past" spoiler:
By the way, Aghanim isn't a separate character from Ganon. That was just Ganon in a disguise.

Edit: While he is the "King of Thieves," I don't think he ever does anything that would justify him being a Rogue. "Thief" is fluff and "Rogue" is metagame. One does not necessarily require the other. I don't mean any offense, and I'm sorry if that came off as harsh.

[Hiro Protagonest]

What's the difference between Ganon and Ganondorf? Does Ganon just refer to Beast Ganon?

[GoblinArchmage]

What's the difference between Ganon and Ganondorf? Does Ganon just refer to Beast Ganon?

Technically, they are the same character. The fanbase, however, tends to use "Ganon" when referring to the demonic form which first appeared in the original NES "Legend of Zelda" and "Ganondorf" when referring to the humanoid Gerudo form which first appeared in "Ocarina of Time" for the N64.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Technically, they are the same character. The fanbase, however, tends to use "Ganon" when referring to the demonic form which first appeared in the original NES "Legend of Zelda" and "Ganondorf" when referring to the humanoid Gerudo form which first appeared in "Ocarina of Time" for the N64.

Can't he also change into a full beast? Also, I think in Windwaker he was more often called Ganon, even though he was in his Gerudo form.

[GoblinArchmage]

Can't he also change into a full beast? Also, I think in Windwaker he was more often called Ganon, even though he was in his Gerudo form.

To the first question, yes.

As for your second statement, true. Although the fanbase typically uses one name per form, the games have used both names to refer to both forms. Think of it as a nickname. Ganon is to Ganondorf as Sam is to Samuel. There's probably more to it than that, but whatever.

[Prime32]

In LttP it was said that his real name was Ganondorf Dragmire, but he was commonly known as Mandrag Ganon.

A TP or WW build has to be ToB. Ganondorf has a similar fighting style in those two games despite his different choices of weaponry, including:

Superior reach to Link
Jumping incredibly high and far from a standing position (used to dodge or close distances)
Ability to chain multiple attacks
Great knockback
Dodging ranged attacks (in OoT he will also deflect Light Arrows unless stunned by Death Tennis)
Parrying very well, requiring that he be caught off-guard somehow
An unblockable kick

[GoblinArchmage]

In LttP it was said that his real name was Ganondorf Dragmire, but he was commonly known as Mandrag Ganon.

A TP or WW build has to be ToB. Ganondorf has a similar fighting style in those two games despite his different choices of weaponry, including:

Superior reach to Link
Jumping incredibly high and far from a standing position (used to dodge or close distances)
Ability to chain multiple attacks
Great knockback
Dodging ranged attacks (in OoT he will also deflect Light Arrows unless stunned by Death Tennis)
Parrying very well, requiring that he be caught off-guard somehow
An unblockable kick


That would be in addition to spellcasting, though.

[dgnslyr]

Which is why he's being built in Gestalt, which lets him have the best of both worlds. Cleric//Crusader/RKV, anybody?

[KillianHawkeye]

"A Link to the Past" spoiler:
By the way, Aghanim isn't a separate character from Ganon. That was just Ganon in a disguise.

Actually, you can clearly see that is not the case when you defeat him.

Also, does a game that old really still need spoilers? :smallconfused:

[GoblinArchmage]

Actually, you can clearly see that is not the case when you defeat him.


Really? It has been a while. Maybe I forgot. For some reason I remember Ganon rising from the body.



Also, does a game that old really still need spoilers? :smallconfused:

...

Yes.

[Hiro Protagonest]

In LttP it was said that his real name was Ganondorf Dragmire, but he was commonly known as Mandrag Ganon.

A TP or WW build has to be ToB. Ganondorf has a similar fighting style in those two games despite his different choices of weaponry, including:

Superior reach to Link
Jumping incredibly high and far from a standing position (used to dodge or close distances)
Ability to chain multiple attacks
Great knockback
Dodging ranged attacks (in OoT he will also deflect Light Arrows unless stunned by Death Tennis)
Parrying very well, requiring that he be caught off-guard somehow
An unblockable kick

So warlock//warblade. Leaping dragon stance + sudden leap, and an iron heart grants reach. Emerald razor or sapphire nightmare blade for the kick.

...

Yes.

Yep. The only games I've played are windwaker and phantom hourglass. I really should finish four swords.

[KillianHawkeye]

Really? It has been a while. Maybe I forgot. For some reason I remember Ganon rising from the body.

Exactly. Ganon's spirit rises out of Aghanim's body. The body remains. Ergo, Ganon was inside Aghanim, but they were seperate characters.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Which is why he's being built in Gestalt, which lets him have the best of both worlds. Cleric//Crusader/RKV, anybody?

I like the Crusader/Cleric but not so sure about RKV. I don't like ignoring fluff from established source books for the sake of metagaming. His cleric side would be pre-battle buffing and the occasional Heal spell so his action economy won't be any worse off than a straight Crusader. Lets switch to optimizing this build as I've made my decision. So epic level (24-26)cleric/crusader. I need feats, equipment (money is no object but within reason), spell and maneuvre selection and strategies if we get to it.

EDIT: on the subject of Ganon v. Ganondorf in games they are used interchangeably but for the purposes of this thread, Ganondorf will refer to his humanoid, gerudo form and Ganon will refer to his Pig-Demon form.

[Rei_Jin]

You'll also need to consider what domains you're going to grab, and any Prestige Classes you would like to put on the Clerical side. I'd recommend taking levels in Ordained Champion (Complete Champion, page 90) and picking up the War Devotion feat, as well as Expertise and Improved Expertise.

Other domains that fit with Ganon from my own experience, would be things like the Domination domain, the Destruction domain, Tyranny, etc.

If you picked Domination and Destruction as your normal clerical two, then Ordained Champion would give you the War domain for free. By grabbing the Destruction domain you now have a Smite ability, even if it is only once per day. I'm sure that there's a feat out there to give you more uses of it, and there are epic feats to increase the damage it deals.

On top of that, once you have the Smite ability, you can pick up Power Attack and the Awesome Smite feat, to give yourself some more tactical options for the use of it.

[MesiDoomstalker]

You'll also need to consider what domains you're going to grab, and any Prestige Classes you would like to put on the Clerical side. I'd recommend taking levels in Ordained Champion (Complete Champion, page 90) and picking up the War Devotion feat, as well as Expertise and Improved Expertise.

Other domains that fit with Ganon from my own experience, would be things like the Domination domain, the Destruction domain, Tyranny, etc.

If you picked Domination and Destruction as your normal clerical two, then Ordained Champion would give you the War domain for free. By grabbing the Destruction domain you now have a Smite ability, even if it is only once per day. I'm sure that there's a feat out there to give you more uses of it, and there are epic feats to increase the damage it deals.

On top of that, once you have the Smite ability, you can pick up Power Attack and the Awesome Smite feat, to give yourself some more tactical options for the use of it.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look at those and get back to you.

EDIT: Where can I find Domination and Tyranny domains?

[Rei_Jin]

Domination and Tyranny domains are in the Spell Compendium, at the back.

Also, consider the Holy Warrior feat from Complete Champion. When you're using the Ordained Champion, it basically acts as free bonus damage on all your attacks.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Domination and Tyranny domains are in the Spell Compendium, at the back.

Also, consider the Holy Warrior feat from Complete Champion. When you're using the Ordained Champion, it basically acts as free bonus damage on all your attacks.

Ok I've looked at all of your suggestions and it all fits the character, fluff, AND optimization needs. Just.....wow. You win sir. I'm going to have him worhip Hextor (who will be an ally of Vecna, wauntonless slaughter is right up his alley) and have the Destruction and Domination domains at start and take those feats and said PrC. I'll post a level by level build in the morning. I'll still need some help with Epic feats, spell selection, some feat holes, and equipment.

[Rei_Jin]

Why thankyou, I do aim to please.

Epic feats... well you've got options there.

Epic Spellcasting is kind of pointless for a BBEG like this, so let's skip that as spellcasting is sort of his default fallback thing that he does off-screen, other than the odd need in combat.

I would consider for him picking up the feat progression that basically makes him immune to ranged attacks (Improved Unarmed Strike - Deflect Arrows - Combat Reflexes - Exceptional Deflection (Epic) - Infinite Deflection (Epic)) so that annoying fairy boys can't shoot arrows at him, nor can they fire ranged touch spells.

Great Smiting (Epic) is a good option if you want to focus a bit on his Smite ability... it doubles your Smite damage at no action cost.

If you're worried about the feat cost of the deflection tree, pick up 2 levels in Monk and voila, you've now got a damage base for his super kick that he does as well as Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist OR Improved Grapple, and Deflect Arrows OR Combat Reflexes. Two levels for three bonus feats... not a bad trade when you're looking at a level 24-26 opponent. Oh, and it will get you Evasion, never a bad thing.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Why thankyou, I do aim to please.

Epic feats... well you've got options there.

Epic Spellcasting is kind of pointless for a BBEG like this, so let's skip that as spellcasting is sort of his default fallback thing that he does off-screen, other than the odd need in combat.

I would consider for him picking up the feat progression that basically makes him immune to ranged attacks (Improved Unarmed Strike - Deflect Arrows - Combat Reflexes - Exceptional Deflection (Epic) - Infinite Deflection (Epic)) so that annoying fairy boys can't shoot arrows at him, nor can they fire ranged touch spells.

Great Smiting (Epic) is a good option if you want to focus a bit on his Smite ability... it doubles your Smite damage at no action cost.

If you're worried about the feat cost of the deflection tree, pick up 2 levels in Monk and voila, you've now got a damage base for his super kick that he does as well as Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist OR Improved Grapple, and Deflect Arrows OR Combat Reflexes. Two levels for three bonus feats... not a bad trade when you're looking at a level 24-26 opponent. Oh, and it will get you Evasion, never a bad thing.

While the deflection ability he portrays in the games would be useful in most groups, my group has absolutly NO ranged capabilty except a Warlock (which means Jafar is going to have a field day). But it could be doable as I'm not very keen on making an Epic feat selection for Crusader so combine it with a fighter dip for even more bonus feats and voila, 20 Crusader/2 fighter/2 monk.

Also, I should note that Power Attack is a free feat that everybody gets. Fair game for powerful near-end game bosses.

[GoblinArchmage]

Exactly. Ganon's spirit rises out of Aghanim's body. The body remains. Ergo, Ganon was inside Aghanim, but they were seperate characters.

Well, Ganon might have just manifested a material body to inhabit. Or he could have stolen somebody else's body. I think that it's kind of ambiguous whether or not they were the same character. I mean, was Aghanim making the conscious choice to serve Ganon, or was Ganon actually in control of Aghanim's body?

As for spell selection, it might be a good idea to find some clever way to get him to fly. There's Miracle if nothing else works, though. Or he could summon an Air Elemental.

[Rei_Jin]

Footsteps of the Divine and we pretend that Hextor grants Boccobs choice as the option? 40ft Fly Speed with perfect maneuverability is not shabby at all.

EDIT: Maybe make him an item that grants him Fell Flight, as per the Warlock Invocation? Fluff it as a Warlocks soul that he has imprisoned in a pair of boots.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Footsteps of the Divine and we pretend that Hextor grants Boccobs choice as the option? 40ft Fly Speed with perfect maneuverability is not shabby at all.

I'm already pretending Hextor's favored weapon is the Greatsword :smallbiggrin: I'm guessing Footsteps of the Divine is in Spell Compendium?

[Rei_Jin]

It's actually in Complete Champion. There's a lot of cool spell and feat options in there for this build (as has been mentioned and taken advantage of)

[GoblinArchmage]

Footsteps of the Divine and we pretend that Hextor grants Boccobs choice as the option? 40ft Fly Speed with perfect maneuverability is not shabby at all.

That sounds quite reasonable. Now if only there was a damage dealing spell that the targret could deflect back at the caster.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That sounds quite reasonable. Now if only there was a damage dealing spell that the targret could deflect back at the caster.

Maybe the master sword is a sword of spell turning.

[GoblinArchmage]

Maybe the master sword is a sword of spell turning.

Or that. That would mean, however, that all bottles are bottles of spell turning. Save your empty potion bottles.

[Rei_Jin]

Now if only there was a damage dealing spell that the target could deflect back at the caster...

There's many ways to do that... because in my mind, what you have is two combatants who have the Exceptional Deflection feat and the Infinite Deflection feat along with the Reflect Arrows feat.

Combining those three feats would allow two combatants to fire a spell back and forth between one another until one of them fails their Reflex save and therefore takes the spell to the face.

For the glowing ball of light that shocks and stuns people, I have an interesting solution.

With the levels in Ordained Champion, you've lost 2 levels of Clerical casting. If you put one level into Warlock, then ten levels into Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage) you would have an Eldritch Blast that deals 6d6 damage, which uses a ranged touch attack and is therefore a valid target for the deflection tree. Throw in the fact that you could now have Fell Flight, Darkness, and other fun abilities and still have full clerical casting of 20 levels, all you'd need to do to get your caster level up is pick up Practiced Spellcaster.

With this build in mind, you would end up with...

Cleric 8/Ordained Champion 5/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 10//Crusader 20/Monk 2/Fighter 2

You would have the full 20 Initiator levels, 20 Cleric levels with a CL of 24, 13 non-epic feats to select, and 2 epic feats. You could get more feats if you picked up flaws, but I personally don't like that option for something like this.



EDIT: For invocations, you could pick up...

Least - Darkness, Devils Sight, Hideous Blow (So you can do the horribly slow punch he uses in SSBM)
Lesser - Fell Flight, Flee the Scene (for the quasi teleport thing he does in TP), Witchwood Step (I ran out of ideas here)
Greater - either Hellspawned Grace for his shapechange ability, or Noxious Blast so that he can leave people unable to do anything for a round when he hits them with his blast.

EDIT2: For feats, I would consider...

1: Power Attack (free feat in your game)
1: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
1: Extra Smiting (It has to exist as a feat somewhere!)
1: Improved Unarmed Strike (Bonus feat from Monk)
1: Stunning Fist (Bonus Feat from Monk)
2: Deflect Arrows (Bonus Feat from Monk
3: Awesome Smite
3: Combat Expertise (Bonus Feat from Fighter)
4: Improved Expertise (Bonus Feat from Fighter)
6: Holy Warrior
9: War Devotion
12: Combat Reflexes
15: Practiced Spellcaster - Cleric
18: ?
21: Exceptional Deflection
24: Infinite Deflection

[MesiDoomstalker]

There's many ways to do that... because in my mind, what you have is two combatants who have the Exceptional Deflection feat and the Infinite Deflection feat along with the Reflect Arrows feat.

Combining those three feats would allow two combatants to fire a spell back and forth between one another until one of them fails their Reflex save and therefore takes the spell to the face.

For the glowing ball of light that shocks and stuns people, I have an interesting solution.

With the levels in Ordained Champion, you've lost 2 levels of Clerical casting. If you put one level into Warlock, then ten levels into Eldritch Disciple (Complete Mage) you would have an Eldritch Blast that deals 6d6 damage, which uses a ranged touch attack and is therefore a valid target for the deflection tree. Throw in the fact that you could now have Fell Flight, Darkness, and other fun abilities and still have full clerical casting of 20 levels, all you'd need to do to get your caster level up is pick up Practiced Spellcaster.

With this build in mind, you would end up with...

Cleric 8/Ordained Champion 5/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 10//Crusader 20/Monk 2/Fighter 2

You would have the full 20 Initiator levels, 20 Cleric levels with a CL of 24, 13 non-epic feats to select, and 2 epic feats. You could get more feats if you picked up flaws, but I personally don't like that option for something like this.



EDIT: For invocations, you could pick up...

Least - Darkness, Devils Sight, Hideous Blow (So you can do the horribly slow punch he uses in SSBM)
Lesser - Fell Flight, Flee the Scene (for the quasi teleport thing he does in TP), Witchwood Step (I ran out of ideas here)
Greater - either Hellspawned Grace for his shapechange ability, or Noxious Blast so that he can leave people unable to do anything for a round when he hits them with his blast.

EDIT2: For feats, I would consider...

1: Power Attack (free feat in your game)
1: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
1: Extra Smiting (It has to exist as a feat somewhere!)
1: Improved Unarmed Strike (Bonus feat from Monk)
1: Stunning Fist (Bonus Feat from Monk)
2: Deflect Arrows (Bonus Feat from Monk
3: Awesome Smite
3: Combat Expertise (Bonus Feat from Fighter)
4: Improved Expertise (Bonus Feat from Fighter)
6: Holy Warrior
9: War Devotion
12: Combat Reflexes
15: Practiced Spellcaster - Cleric
18: ?
21: Exceptional Deflection
24: Infinite Deflection

I like all of this but I will mention that at the same time, there is no Sorc/Wiz in the party (though the Warlock seems is going to Multiclass around a lot and not sure what he will be by that level).

On a different note, our group has always had a home-rule that you can only have one PrC because its a highly specialized and focused path of training. But I can make an exception :smallamused:

Extra Smiting is a feat from CW I think. It gives 4 extra smites. I used it for a Crusader I played (and I'm ruling here that it applies to all Smite abilities so Crusader smite and Destruction Domain smite as well.

Now what should his manuevres and spell selection be? And what should his stats look like (note that I'm taking extreme creative liberties so his stats could start, at level one, above 18). I was thinking starting at base:
Str:24
Dex:18
Con:22
Int:18
Wis:20
Cha:20
what do you think?

[Quietus]

I like the Warlock idea. Darkness/Devil's Sight also nicely folds in his tendency to be "invisible"; Darkness to make it harder to find him, Devil's Sight so he can see through it.

On the spell options : I'd look at preparing Quickened versions of the standard Clerical buff spells, and using your bonus Cleric epic feat(s?) to grab Multispell once or twice. Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might in one turn would grant +3 attack/damage, full BAB(wasted), +6 enhancement, a bit of temporary HP, a size increase, another +4 size to str, +2 con, +2 enhancement bonus to NA, and DR 9/Good. Throw a little fluff of "Beast Ganon" into the whole process, and you have a pretty solid representation of a transformation, I'd say.