PDA

View Full Version : First try at nonmagical class - The Wardancer



Phosphate
2011-07-07, 10:27 AM
The Wardancer
http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes5/pictures/sylvan/2.jpg
Move swift as the breeze, feel as if your body is a fluid, flowing through the world, through your weapons, through your enemies. Thus, you will always have enough momentum to strike your foes. - Hazir, Wardancer

Wardancers are warriors who combine their impressive strength and uncanny agility to accomplish remarkable techniques which disarm, disorient and ultimately kill their opponents. Getting in melee range with a wardancer is either utterly foolish or the bravest thing in the world, as any foe, no matter how strong, will barely land a single hit while the wardancer lands a dozen.

Organization: Wardancers are tribe leaders, and as such any race who has Barbarian as favored class has this as favored class aswell. Wardancers usually don't work together, and if they do, they are in groups of no more than 4 or 5. Truly, wardancers are rather rare, and have such an intricate fighting style that it is very hard even for a master to teach others the style. In truth, wardancing is at the same time something you know, something you work very hard to perfect, and something you feel.

Alignment: Any, though wardancers tend to be bloodlusting and aggressive, which makes the sight of a Neutral Good one very rare.

Race: Any race able to move swiftly and act on instinct can produce wardancers, although races with natural high dexterity usually have it easier.

Starting Age: As Wizard (complex)
Starting Gold: As Fighter
Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The Wardancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

WARDANCER
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Seasoned Blade Fighter

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Trained Accuracy (19-20)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Battle Shift

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Sequential Strike

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Counterstrike

6th|
+6/1|
+5|
+5|
+2|Jousting

7th|
+7/2|
+5|
+5|
+2|Trained Accuracy (18-20)

8th|
+8/3|
+6|
+6|
+2|Physical Stability

9th|
+9/4|
+6|
+6|
+3|Uncanny Dodge

10th|
+10/5|
+7|
+7|
+3|Improved Counterstrike

11th|
+11/6/1|
+7|
+7|
+3|Battle Movement

12th|
+12/7/2|
+8|
+8|
+4|Trained Accuracy (17-20)

13th|
+13/8/3|
+8|
+8|
+4|Attrition Flurry

14th|
+14/9/5|
+9|
+9|
+4|Extreme Strength Training

15th|
+15/10/5|
+9|
+9|
+5|Greater Counterstrike

16th|
+16/11/6/1|
+10|
+10|
+5|Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting

17th|
+17/12/7/2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Trained Accuracy (16-20)

18th|
+18/13/8/3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Pinpointed Attacks

19th|
+19/14/9/4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Extreme Strength Training

20th|
+20/15/10/5|
+12|
+12|
+6|Trained Accuracy (15-20)[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Wardancer is proficient with all one-handed slashing weapons, no matter if they are simple, martial or exotic. He is also proficient with light and medium armor, and no shields.

Class Features


Seasoned Blade Fighter (Ex): A Wardancer can consider either of his hands as his primary hand for the purposes of wielding slashing weapons only. He also considers both his hands as primary hands for the purposes of applying attack penalties when dual wielding slashing weapons (meaning he also adds his full strength modifier to both hands).

Trained Accuracy (Ex): A Wardancer trains hard to improve the accuracy of his attacks. If attacking with a slashing weapon, he will be guaranteed a hit not only on a natural 20, but also on lower natural rolls (he will still only threaten a critical on a natural 20). This decreases by 1 at level 2 (19-20), level 7 (18-20), level 12 (17-20), level 17 (16-20) and level 20 (15-20). Also, from level 2, a Wardancer does not instantly miss on a natural 1.

Battle Shift (Ex): A Wardancer may, instead of the usual 5 foot step, make a 15 foot shift (even before or after a full round action). If you provoke an attack of opportunity by doing this, you get a +4 bonus to AC.

Sequential Strike (Ex): During an attack with a slashing weapon, a Wardancer receives one additional strike. This applies both to full attacks AND standard attacks. This strike must be the last one in the full attack/standard attack, always uses a Base Attack Bonus of +0, cannot cause a critical, and deals only 3/4 of the damage roll.

Counterstrike (Ex): Once per round, if you are subjected to a melee attack, you are wielding a slashing weapon, and you can add your dexterity modifier to your AC, you can take a -4 penalty to attack for this ability only and use your attack roll instead of your AC. If this succeeds, your opponent's melee attack fails normally (as if his attack roll was lower than your AC). If this fails, your opponent must still make a check against your AC, but you are not allowed to add your dexterity modifier.

Jousting (Ex): The bonus from this ability only applies if your attack is done with a slashing weapon, and is done after you take a move action/battle shift (if making a full round attack). Your first melee attack deals 1/20 more damage for every square you traveled this round, capped at 20/20. If you DO reach the cap for this ability, you gain a +2 bonus to the attack roll of all your attacks this turn.

Physical Stability (Ex): The Wardancer is exceptionally stable. He can only be Bull Rushed by opponents two size categories larger or more, and Tripped and Overrun by opponents one size category larger or more. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity if standing up from prone.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): This works like the Rogue ability Uncanny Dodge. If you already have Uncanny dodge from another source, this becomes Improved Uncanny dodge. In addition, if you have this, you retain your dexterity bonus to AC if you use Counterstrike and fail.

Improved Counterstrike (Ex): Just like Counterstrike, except the penalty is only -2. Also, if it works, not only does the opponent miss, but his weapon is treated as if it was Sundered.

Battle Movement (Ex): Starting from level 11, the Wardancer adds 5 feet to his speed per level, and a one-time 10 feet bonus to Battle Shift. This stacks with bonus movement from any other sources. Also, as long as he is moving normally (through normal terrain, on foot, not running), he gains a +2 bonus to AC and Counterstrike against attacks of opportunity.

Attrition Flurry (Ex): Fighting with a Wardancer is a deeply daunting activity. If a Wardancer successfully attacks an opponent with a slashing weapon and deals damage, that opponent is affected by this for 4 turns, and must make a Fortitude Save against a DC of 5. If he fails, he is Fatigued for that turn. Successive Saves increase the DC by +5 per save, no matter if a save is successful or failed. Hitting the opponent again renews the duration, but does not reset the DC.

Strength Training (Ex): The Wardancers go to inhuman lengths of pain and effort to perfect their bodies. A level 14 Wardancer takes a permanent 10 point penalty to his hit points, but gains a permanent +2 increase to his base strength (base, as in this is not a bonus). Also, he can wield a two-handed slashing weapon with one hand with no penalty, but if he dual wields, his other weapon must be light.

Greater Counterstrike (Ex): Same as Counterstrike, except there is no penalty. Also, if it works, the opponent's weapon is treated as being Sundered, and you can immediately make a melee attack against him using an attack roll equal to what you rolled for the Greater Counterstrike.

Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): A level 16 Wardancer instantly receives the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he doesn't qualify for it. If he already has Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, he gains Two-Weapon Defense. He may use the bonuses from these feats only if he is wielding two slashing weapons.

Pinpointed Attacks (Ex): A level 18 Wardancer strikes with such precision that his opponents are denied their dexterity bonus to AC when he attacks them. Also, on a natural 20, he doesn't just threaten a critical with his attack, he simply scores a critical.

Extreme Strength Training (Ex): The Wardancer is subjected to enough effort to kill the average person. His hit points are permanently reduced by a further 10 points, he gains a permanent +4 increase to his base strength (which stacks with that offered by Strength Training), and he can wield two-handed slashing weapons in both hands without penalty.

Phosphate
2011-07-07, 04:26 PM
Ok, done.......

jiriku
2011-07-07, 05:52 PM
Excellent start for a first martial class. There are a lot of creative ideas here. I won't lie to you, it needs a little work, but that's why you posted it, neh? Let's have a look!

Big question to answer here: What is your intended power level? What classes should we compare this to when deciding whether it's overpowered, underpowered, or just right?

Second Big Question: Why a wardancer? What design space is this class intended to fill that's not already covered by another class?


Seasoned Blade Fighter: This does almost nothing. Fluffy abilities are fine if you want them, but you should also add another ability at 1st level, something to give the Wardancer some kind of tangible benefit.

Sequential Strike, Jousting: I recommend against any ability that involves small percentages. When players have to whip out calculators to figure out how much damage they're dealing, the game slows down (and the opportunity for cheating goes up). You don't want that.

Attrition Flurry: D&D and counters really don't mix. Consider just forcing a save vs. fatigue on hit. Also, a DC of 5 +5 per save swings wildly from laughably easy to impossibly difficult. Ideally, saving throw DCs should be tough but fair. A DC of 10 + 1/2 character level + Strength modifier would be typical, perhaps increasing by +1 or +2 if you want repeated strikes to make the save more difficult.

Strength Training: D&D characters don't have health. Did you mean hit points or Constitution? Also, the restriction on off-hand usage doesn't make sense for this class: at level 1 you gained Seasoned Blade Fighter, which eliminated the idea of having an "off-hand". Now you have one again?

Uncanny Route of Attack: Since creatures in 3.5 don't have a facing, attacking a creature from "behind" confers no benefit.



Overall: This is a fairly straight-jacketed class. It's really only good at one thing in combat, which is using slashing weapons in the two-weapon style against foes armed with melee weapons. The large number of skill points, ample class skill list, and strong chassis do a lot to save it though, providing a solid base for a well-rounded character. It needs some tweaking, but I think you can definitely turn this into something your players would find satisfying.

Edit: To add a random comment, the guy in that picture looks oddly reminiscent of my wife's hairdresser.

Pyromancer999
2011-07-07, 06:13 PM
I think the Battle Dancer from Dragon has a bone to pick with this class. Just saying.

Quellian-dyrae
2011-07-07, 09:02 PM
Seasoned Blade Fighter (Ex): A Wardancer can consider either of his hands as his primary hand for the purposes of wielding slashing weapons only. He also considers both his hands as primary hands for the purposes of applying attack penalties when dual wielding slashing weapons.

Most characters who dual-wield will go TWF, making the attack penalty for main/off hand weapons identical. An addition that the Wardancer adds its full Str modifier to damage with its off-hand weapon might be what you're aiming for.


Trained Accuracy (Ex): A Wardancer trains hard to improve the accuracy of his attacks. If attacking with a slashing weapon, he will be guaranteed a hit not only on a natural 20, but also on lower natural rolls (he will still only threaten a critical on a natural 20). This decreases by 1 at level 2 (19-20), level 7 (18-20), level 12 (17-20), level 17 (16-20) and level 20 (15-20). Also, from level 2, a Wardancer does not instantly miss on a natural 1.

It's taking me a moment to wrap my head around the in-game implications of a minimum 30% chance to hit anything (at 20th), but I don't see any actual balance issues that would matter in play.


Battle Shift (Ex): A Wardancer may, instead of the usual 5 foot step, make a 15 foot shift (even before or after a full round action). If you provoke an attack of opportunity by doing this, you get a +4 bonus to AC.

Additional full-attack mobility is always good.


Sequential Strike (Ex): During a full attack with a slashing weapon, a Wardancer receives one additional strike. This strike must be the last one in the full attack, always uses a Base Attack Bonus of +0, cannot cause a critical, and has a 25% penalty to damage, rounded up.

At best, this ability is strictly weaker than a typical "Flurry of Blows" type ability. At worst, with its horrific BAB and damage penalty, it's nigh-useless. I'd probably either just make it flurry, or make it flurry if wielding one weapon or free TWF feat(s) if wielding two.


Counterstrike (Ex): Once per round, if you are subjected to a melee attack, you are wielding a slashing weapon, and you can add your dexterity modifier to your AC, you can take a -4 penalty to attack and use your attack roll instead of your AC. If this succeeds, your opponent's melee attack fails normally (as if his attack roll was lower than your AC). If this fails, your opponent must still make a check against your AC, but you are not allowed to add your dexterity modifier.

Does the attack penalty apply to all of your attacks next round, or just to the block? And if the former...does it apply to the block? This class seems like it would favor Dex some, so I'm a bit shaky on an ability that gives me two penalized chances to avoid an attack. Although...the later improvements probably make it fine.


Jousting (Ex): The bonus from this ability only applies if your attack is done with a slashing weapon, and is done after you take a move action/battle shift (if making a full round attack). Your first melee attack deals 1% more damage for every feet traveled this round, capped at 100%, rounded down. If you DO reach the cap for this ability, you gain a +2 bonus to the attack roll of all your attacks this turn.

I'll second the "leave percentages out" suggestion above.


Physical Stability (Ex): The Wardancer is exceptionally stable. He can only be Bull Rushed by opponents two size categories larger or more, and Tripped and Overrun by opponents one size category larger or more. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity if standing up from prone.

This looks fine.


Uncanny Dodge (Ex): This works like the Rogue ability Uncanny Dodge. If you already have Uncanny dodge from another source, this becomes Improved Uncanny dodge. In addition, if you have this, you retain your dexterity bonus to AC if you use Counterstrike and fail.

A classic.


Improved Counterstrike (Ex): Just like Counterstrike, except the penalty is only -2. Also, if it works, not only does the opponent miss, but his weapon is treated as if it was Sundered.

Does this mean you auto-sunder the foe's weapon, or get a free Sunder attempt? The former might be a bit much, and play odd games with loot besides. Actually, it might be good to make Disarming an option as well, so you don't go around breaking powerful magic weapons you might want to use later.


Battle Movement (Ex): Starting from level 11, the Wardancer adds 5 feet to his speed per level, and a one-time 10 feet bonus to Battle Shift. This stacks with bonus movement from any other sources. Also, as long as he is moving normally (through normal terrain, on foot, not running), he gains a +2 bonus to AC and Counterstrike against attacks of opportunity.

That's a substantial speed boost. And I'm good with that. :smallbiggrin:


Attrition Flurry (Ex): Fighting with a Wardancer is a deeply daunting activity. With every successful hit landed on a foe with a non-light slashing weapon, the Wardancer places 1 counter on that foe until the end of the encounter. There is no cap to this. Once per round, 1 counter is removed from that opponent, and he must make a Fortitude Save against a DC of 5. If he fails, he is Fatigued for that turn. Successive Saves increase the DC by +5 per save, no matter if a save is successful or failed.

Yeah, this one could probably be streamlined some. It actually seems a bit weird...you could move on to a new foe and your previous opponent starts getting tired from blows you dealt half a minute ago.


Strength Training (Ex): The Wardancers go to inhuman lengths of pain and effort to perfect their bodies. A level 14 Wardancer takes a permanent 10 point penalty to his health, but gains a permanent +2 increase to his base strength (base, as in this is not a bonus). Also, he can wield a two-handed slashing weapon with one hand with no penalty, but if he dual wields, his other weapon must be light.

Greater Counterstrike (Ex): Same as Counterstrike, except there is no penalty. Also, if it works, the opponent's weapon is treated as being Sundered, and you can immediately make a melee attack against him using an attack roll equal to what you rolled for the Greater Counterstrike.

Don't have anything to say here that wasn't already posted.


Uncanny Route of Attack (Ex): The Wardancer may, using certain techniques, hit his targets where they are more vulnerable. If he is facing an opponent, he can treat his first attack as an attack from behind, and all other attacks as if they were from a flanking position. If he is flanking an opponent, he can treat all his attacks as if they are from behind. This effect only applies if the opponent is one size category larger, or two sizes if your dexterity is above 19, than the Wardancer, the same size, or smaller.

By standard rules, there isn't actually a penalty for being attacked from behind (not sure if that's a house rule in your games though). Maybe have it deny Dex to AC instead?


Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): A level 18 Wardancer instantly receives the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Also, if he meets the prerequisites of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, he instantly receives the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat, ignoring prerequisites. He may use the bonuses from these feats only if he is wielding two slashing weapons.

This probably comes too late. No one will want to wait eighteen levels to finally get their TWF feats. I'd just change this to granting the fourth iterative with TWF.


Extreme Strength Training (Ex): The Wardancer is subjected to enough effort to kill the average person. His health is permanently reduced by a further 10 points, he gains a permanent +3 increase to his base strength (which stacks with that offered by Strength Training), and he can wield two-handed slashing weapons in both hands without penalty.

Odd-numbered ability modifiers don't tend to have actual effects. I'd make that either +2 or +4.

All in all, though, looks like a pretty solid class. I don't see any glaring balance issues, and I would say it's makes a good athletic, mobile warrior. Well done!

Phosphate
2011-07-08, 02:18 AM
Big question to answer here: What is your intended power level? What classes should we compare this to when deciding whether it's overpowered, underpowered, or just right?

I intended this as a lower Tier 3. If it is stronger than that, I don't really care, but if it is weaker, please tell me.



Second Big Question: Why a wardancer? What design space is this class intended to fill that's not already covered by another class?

I really don't think there's a class right now that's this undefeatable in melee. That was my main goal with it.



Seasoned Blade Fighter: This does almost nothing. Fluffy abilities are fine if you want them, but you should also add another ability at 1st level, something to give the Wardancer some kind of tangible benefit.

Do you have any suggestion? I suck at balancing 1st level abilities (if you take a look at my other classes, you will see they are usually MAJORLY overpowered).


Sequential Strike, Jousting: I recommend against any ability that involves small percentages. When players have to whip out calculators to figure out how much damage they're dealing, the game slows down (and the opportunity for cheating goes up). You don't want that.

I can calculate for them, no problem. For sequential strike, you just multiply the damage roll by 3/4, so that's not really an issue. For Jousting, movement in D&D is separated in 5 foot squares, so you just add another 1/20 of your damage roll for every square you travel. I added this so that opponents would think twice before trying to withdraw from battle.


Attrition Flurry: D&D and counters really don't mix. Consider just forcing a save vs. fatigue on hit.

Ok, but then I would have to make it work for standard attacks as well.


Also, a DC of 5 +5 per save swings wildly from laughably easy to impossibly difficult.

Excuse me, but isn't that EXACTLY how an ability that causes fatigue should work?



Strength Training: D&D characters don't have health. Did you mean hit points or Constitution? Also, the restriction on off-hand usage doesn't make sense for this class: at level 1 you gained Seasoned Blade Fighter, which eliminated the idea of having an "off-hand". Now you have one again?

Oh, the health thing is just a typo, thanks for catching it. Meant hit points. And yes, the off-hand thing does make sense: first, notice how you can wield the two-handed weapon in EITHER of your hands. It just strains you so that your other weapon can't be anything but light.


Uncanny Route of Attack: Since creatures in 3.5 don't have a facing, attacking a creature from "behind" confers no benefit.

I...got that confused. Ok, will replace this ability with something else.

Phosphate
2011-07-08, 02:19 AM
I think the Battle Dancer from Dragon has a bone to pick with this class. Just saying.

Can you please tell me exactly how similar it is to this class? I didn't know about it.

Phosphate
2011-07-08, 02:30 AM
Most characters who dual-wield will go TWF, making the attack penalty for main/off hand weapons identical. An addition that the Wardancer adds its full Str modifier to damage with its off-hand weapon might be what you're aiming for.


It does that anyway. But I will clarify that it does.



At best, this ability is strictly weaker than a typical "Flurry of Blows" type ability. At worst, with its horrific BAB and damage penalty, it's nigh-useless. I'd probably either just make it flurry, or make it flurry if wielding one weapon or free TWF feat(s) if wielding two.

Should I make it so that he can take the extra attack from Sequential Strike EVEN if all he does is a standard action attack?

Also, this class can care a bit less about low BaB, courtesy of its guaranteed hits.


Does the attack penalty apply to all of your attacks next round, or just to the block? And if the former...does it apply to the block? This class seems like it would favor Dex some, so I'm a bit shaky on an ability that gives me two penalized chances to avoid an attack. Although...the later improvements probably make it fine.

It applies only to the block. Also, you can choose to NOT counterattack, and if you do that you keep your AC to armor.


I'll second the "leave percentages out" suggestion above.

Provided that Joust is the strongest ability this class has, and the very reason Battle Shift exists, I am REALLY weary to rid of it. Should I just express it in squares instead of percentages? I think I will.



Does this mean you auto-sunder the foe's weapon, or get a free Sunder attempt? The former might be a bit much, and play odd games with loot besides. Actually, it might be good to make Disarming an option as well, so you don't go around breaking powerful magic weapons you might want to use later.

Yes, it auto-sunders the weapon. But as I said, you can choose NOT to counterstrike, and use just your AC.



Yeah, this one could probably be streamlined some. It actually seems a bit weird...you could move on to a new foe and your previous opponent starts getting tired from blows you dealt half a minute ago.

That is exactly how I wanted it to work.




By standard rules, there isn't actually a penalty for being attacked from behind (not sure if that's a house rule in your games though). Maybe have it deny Dex to AC instead?

Nah, I will just replace it with something else.


This probably comes too late. No one will want to wait eighteen levels to finally get their TWF feats. I'd just change this to granting the fourth iterative with TWF.

Probably will move this down one level, grant Greater instantly with no penalty, and add something as a bonus.


Odd-numbered ability modifiers don't tend to have actual effects. I'd make that either +2 or +4.

Tradition is...not that important. Though a boost of +4 is better nonetheless.

Quellian-dyrae
2011-07-08, 02:55 AM
I was doing it to rid him of the trouble of having to waste 3 feats on it. But yeah, your suggestion is reasonable.

Um...the way the ability reads, it wouldn't grant the benefits of the TWF feats, would it? If you have TWF it would do nothing, and if you don't, you would get to make a single extra attack and take -6/-6 instead of -6/-10. Or am I missing something?


Should I make it so that he can take the extra attack from Sequential Strike EVEN if all he does is a standard action attack?

That'd be something at least, but with a +0 BAB and a damage penalty, I expect it wouldn't be useful except at the low levels.


It applies only to the block. Also, you can choose to NOT counterattack, and if you do that you keep your AC to armor.

Got it. You might want to run some numbers on it, just to make sure it will generally be more a help than a hindrance in the initial stages, but it's probably fine.


Provided that Joust is the strongest ability this class has, and the very reason Battle Shift exists, I am REALLY weary to rid of it. Should I just express it in squares instead of percentages? I think I will.

Yeah the ability isn't the problem, I just know percentages tend to be more math than a lot of players want to deal with.


Yes, it auto-sunders the weapon. But as I said, you can choose NOT to counterstrike, and use just your AC.

Got it. That is actually a pretty powerful ability, not just for the effect, but simply as a deterrent. If you know that any failed attack on this guy could destroy your (presumably well-enchanted) weapon, it kinda makes him like the Rust Monster of base classes. :smallamused:

I mean, in the scheme of things, there's plenty of ways around it (magic, natural attacks, ranged weapons, etc) but it does give this class a strong advantage over other warrior classes.


That is exactly how I wanted it to work.

Fair enough then. :smallsmile:


Probably will move this down one level, grant Greater instantly with no penalty, and add something as a bonus.

The thing is, most TWF characters will be getting the normal feat at 1st, Improved at 6th, and Greater at 12th (11th if they can swing it through class), so waiting until even 17th is probably just too long.

Phosphate
2011-07-08, 04:34 AM
Um...the way the ability reads, it wouldn't grant the benefits of the TWF feats, would it? If you have TWF it would do nothing, and if you don't, you would get to make a single extra attack and take -6/-6 instead of -6/-10. Or am I missing something?

Doesn't matter, already changed it.


That'd be something at least, but with a +0 BAB and a damage penalty, I expect it wouldn't be useful except at the low levels.

There is a reason why Trained Accuracy scales.


Got it. You might want to run some numbers on it, just to make sure it will generally be more a help than a hindrance in the initial stages, but it's probably fine.

In the initial stages, you mean until level 8 when he gets Uncanny Dodge and keeps the dex bonus anyway? I wouldn't mind, he can wear medium armor after all.


Yeah the ability isn't the problem, I just know percentages tend to be more math than a lot of players want to deal with.

Rewritten it. Now it does the exact same thing, but *looks* easier to calculate.


Got it. That is actually a pretty powerful ability, not just for the effect, but simply as a deterrent. If you know that any failed attack on this guy could destroy your (presumably well-enchanted) weapon, it kinda makes him like the Rust Monster of base classes. :smallamused:

I mean, in the scheme of things, there's plenty of ways around it (magic, natural attacks, ranged weapons, etc) but it does give this class a strong advantage over other warrior classes.

1. The POINT of this class is that it is weak against ranged, but people must be at a REALLY far range for this to work with them (remember, a level 20 Wardancer Human, with no bonuses to speed, has a speed of 80 feet per round, and 160 if running). Things like chain lightning would still screw him, but not physical attacks.
2. I wanted something that is specifically anti-melee. Most melee classes are either tanks, spikers or anti-mages, I didn't see any of them that are actually anti-melee. Hence, I made this class.



The thing is, most TWF characters will be getting the normal feat at 1st, Improved at 6th, and Greater at 12th (11th if they can swing it through class), so waiting until even 17th is probably just too long.

1. Level 16, actually.
2. I made the ability so it gives TWD if they already have Greater. It is also a way of making even characters who don't have high dexterity receive the GTWF feat, because it ignores prerequisites.

Veklim
2011-07-08, 11:49 AM
OK, interesting at a very breif glance, but bluff is missing as a class skill. This is silly. Feinting would be these guy's best friend surely..?

Pyromancer999
2011-07-08, 12:03 PM
Can you please tell me exactly how similar it is to this class? I didn't know about it.

They're pretty much almost completely identical fluff-wise, and perform very similar functions in combat. However, your class's benefits seem to be more constant, while the battle dancer has it's special dances, which are pretty neat in themselves.

Phosphate
2011-07-08, 01:09 PM
@Veklim: Damn, how could I have forgotten?


They're pretty much almost completely identical fluff-wise, and perform very similar functions in combat. However, your class's benefits seem to be more constant, while the battle dancer has it's special dances, which are pretty neat in themselves.

Hoped that wouldn't happen...

Quellian-dyrae
2011-07-08, 02:05 PM
There is a reason why Trained Accuracy scales.

I hadn't even thought of that. That's a clever little bit of synergy.

Pyromancer999
2011-07-08, 04:23 PM
@Veklim: Damn, how could I have forgotten?



Hoped that wouldn't happen...

Still, don't worry too much about it. Yes, the concept has been done before in an almost identical fashion, this class has it's good points. For one, it's more focused on (Ex) abilities, and stuff like Trained Accuracy gives this class a reason or two to be considered over the Battle Dancer. Just wanted to let you know of a previous attempt to do this.

jiriku
2011-07-08, 07:13 PM
I intended this as a lower Tier 3. If it is stronger than that, I don't really care, but if it is weaker, please tell me.

Ok. Right now I'd say you're clocking about a low Tier 4. You'll be pretty effective against Medium or smaller martial opponents who wield melee weapons, and most opponents look like that at low levels, but you're significantly less effective against creatures that use natural weapons or ranged attacks, or anything that uses battlefield control. Flyers of all types will also present considerable trouble, as will swarms, incorporeal creatures, and some oozes. Also, because the wardancer has basically only one route to success (full attacks with slashing weapons), it's vulnerable to being outmaneuvered by classes that have more options at their disposal.



I really don't think there's a class right now that's this undefeatable in melee. That was my main goal with it.

Not quite there yet. It needs more flexibility.


Do you have any suggestion? I suck at balancing 1st level abilities (if you take a look at my other classes, you will see they are usually MAJORLY overpowered).

How about some sort of rage-like mechanic where you enter a war dance and gain minor combat bonuses and some sort of new tactical option while in your war dance?

[QUOTE=Phosphate;11372537]I can calculate for them, no problem. For sequential strike, you just multiply the damage roll by 3/4, so that's not really an issue. For Jousting, movement in D&D is separated in 5 foot squares, so you just add another 1/20 of your damage roll for every square you travel.

Are you writing the class for your own use or for use by others?


Excuse me, but isn't that EXACTLY how an ability that causes fatigue should work?

Well, there are two answers to that question. The simple answer is that it's your homebrew and so it works however you choose for it to work. The more complex answer is that when you make your choice, some options are better or worse than others. Your current choice causes the ability to not work.

An ability with a save DC that always starts at 5 gets weaker as you advance in level, not stronger. At 13th level, if you hit a typical opponent (Fort save of +13 to +20) repeatedly with Attrition Flurry, he'll ignore it for 3-5 rounds before it starts to be felt. By 20th level, typical opponents (For Save +20 to +30) will ignore the effect for 4-7 rounds. In practice, this ability starts out mostly worthless, and gets more useless as you level up. Fighters have a similar problem with most of their feats, which is part of the reason why fighters are bad. A well-designed class feature should become more useful and effective as the character advances in level.

Also, from a dramatic, game-interest point of view, Save DCs that result in success or failure 95% of the time are basically a waste of a die roll - you might as well just decree that the effect does or does not occur and move on to something with more potential for drama.