World domination 101 for Non-Wis based casters..

[Maho-Tsukai]

I know I have made this thread add-nausiam BUT in my last thread somebody gave me the idea to just make one giant thread for all my discussion and debating over how to make a tier 1, NON-WISDOM BASED caster who has a MECHANCIAL MEANS to take over the world....

In past threads we have discussed everything from how to get social skills on a wizard so one could use manipulation to pull political puppet strings to trying to find a wizard a MECHANICAL means to build an army...

The former was easy enough, but the latter seemed impossible...however, their may still be a way. So, I ask you all, how would you, with a wizard, take over the world in a manner that would not get a DMG thrown at your head(So Economancy/breaking the locak economey is out, here.) that is NOT necromancy/building an undead army(as the cleric will ALWAYS be better then you at this.) and can be done around the time the cleric can start amassing his undead army, or at least close to it?

If you can't do it with a wizard, archivist is also an ok supstitute....or even artificer..as long as the class can function with a meh or low wisdom and is tier 1, it is exceptable....

[Big Fau]

Chained Extended Dominate Person, with massive amounts of CL boosting. You just took over the Senate, and the rest is just a matter of time. The spell can last easily two months with just a little bit of boosting, and it's possible to get a CL in the 50s with some trickery (not that you need it, since you can just rig up traps to keep your dominated minions dominated). Use a Rod of Extend Spell on it to keep the metamagic lower.

With enough CL boosting it will be virtually impossible to dispel it (since there are CL boosters that only apply to resisting dispel checks).

[Maho-Tsukai]

You'll still NEED social skills to keep that up, as dominate makes them all mindless drooling zombies, SOMEBODY will notice something is up with them, so you'll have to have a **** good bluff check(and most likely a **** good check in other social skills) to even begain to convince anybody that your not the one responsible for the fact the senate are now a bunch of unresponsive zombies who only respond to your commands, and even if you sucssesfully do that you've STILL lost all control since nobody is going to follow a bunch of unresponsive drooling zombies who only react to your commands....If you could do this with MIND RAPE then it would be different, but that is just too long to wait(You would have to be epic, so yeah.)....the cleric could have already been marching on the kingdom with his undead legion long before you hit the super-high epic level nessicary to do that with Mind Rape...

[Big Fau]

You'll still NEED social skills to keep that up, as dominate makes them all mindless drooling zombies, SOMEBODY will notice something is up with them, so you'll have to have a **** good bluff check(and most likely a **** good check in other social skills) to even begain to convince anybody that your not the one responsible for the fact the senate are now a bunch of unresponsive zombies who only respond to your commands, and even if you sucssesfully do that you've STILL lost all control since nobody is going to follow a bunch of unresponsive drooling zombies who only react to your commands....If you could do this with MIND RAPE then it would be different, but that is just too **** long to wait9you'd have to be epic, so yeah.)

Once they are dominated, Programed Amnesia works to keep them under control. Or Geas them.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Dose not change the fact they are mindless zombies who only respond to your commands and just sit around like vegatables otherwise. Nobody is going to obey mindless zombies who sit like vegetables all day. even if you somehow DO manage to get social skills and DO manage to pass the impossibly high social skill checks to keep suspicion off of you their not going to let a bunch of mindles vegetables who just sit around blankly until the shadow leader gives them their orders lead the country.

Even if you yourself are not pinned for their condition their condition would be VERY noticable(You don't need ranks in spot to see that a person is a total, unresponsive vegatable), meaning they would most likely be assumed to be under some kind of magical affliction in which case they(AND THUS YOU) would be removed from power and somebody else would take command and look for what could be the cause of this strange affliction that has suddenly overtook the senate...

and thats ONLY if you pass the really high social skill checks required to keep suspicion off of you. If you fail those not only will you rule nothing, but then you will have an entire country after your head as well...

[Yuki Akuma]

Domination doesn't make people drooling mindless zombies.

[agahii]

Just cast 4 mind rapes a day(or more) until you have all of them? The chained stuff was just for doing it in one round(style points) I'm guessing. You could be an incantrix, or use alternate metamagic reducers to do it pre epic anyway...

From all these posts I think you just want to hear that Clerics take over the world easier than wizards(and plugging your ears and going nanana!, when someone gives a good example), but honestly you are wrong. The reason a cleric cant do it is because another good cleric(or other full-caster) of equal or greater power would have stopped them, same goes for wizard.

[JaronK]

that is NOT necromancy/building an undead army(as the cleric will ALWAYS be better then you at this.)

This is not true. You need to be an arcane caster to spell stitch someone, and spell stitching is the best way to make an effective undead army. With Animate Dread Warrior and Awaken Undead you can make an unlimited sized army, with many PC class leveled people in it.

The other option for this is Runesmith, which is an arcane PrC (but requires being higher level).

JaronK

[Maho-Tsukai]

Domination dose NOT make them mindless vegetables that don't do anything unless you order them to? SRD says otherwise...


"Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). "- Dominate Person entry, SRD

Basicly once you order them to do something they are more or less mindless automations with no personality what so ever who do nothing that is not nessicary to survival other then what you ordered them to....That makes it very, very, very easy to notice that something is wrong with the senator/king.

I would imagine that people would not even need to make a sense motive check to know something is not right with their leader when he just quietly eats at the dinner table, being totally unresponsive to the conversations and questions of his friends and family...or when he refuses to bathe for days...or never talks to anybody for any reasons other then the formation of his new imperial army....

Like I said, it may not be traced back to you nessicarily, but it would still be blaitantly obviouys that something is wrong mentaly with the guy which would lead to him(and thus you) getting thrown out of power due to people thinking he's going insane, or under the influence of a magical disease...or something else simmilar...

[agahii]

Give simple commands that only take small amounts of time to accomplish(write this treaty for me ect), then order them to "act as though you are not dominated until I give another command".

[agahii]

Also what JaronK said. Arcane casters are badasses of necro armies. Ever heard of the Dread Necromancer?

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, but I stated in the OP I wanted a Tier 1, here. Dread Necro is a teir 3, not a tier 1 and the wizard can't ever make an undead legion who's size equals that of a cleric's....and for conquest quanity/legion size is important...

As for the domination thing, I suppose that would fix the whole "mindless automation is easily noticeable issue," though that takes some very careful order crafting and you'd still need some degree of social skills to pull it off...

[Talya]

What about taking a sorcerer and PrCing it up to tier 1 with mage of the arcane order or similar?

[Doktor Per]

With illusions and locate city wightpocalypse bombs you can copy Doctor Manhattan's plot, blame some outsiders for this mass destruction and now everyone has to band together (behind you) since every other form of government just crumbled.

[Maho-Tsukai]

A PrC cannot ever make a sorc tier 1 because no matter what a sorc is limited by their spells known. The ONLY way for a sorc to become tier 1 is to make it not have limited spells known, and I don't know of any PrC that can do that. No matter what PrC they take, the sorc will always be tier 2. The only exception to that would be a PrC that allows the sorc to break it's spells known limit/become JUST AS VERSATILE as a wizard, and I know of NO PrC that can obtain that.


Also...that plot has merit...IF, AND THIS IS A BIG IF, you can get the social skill checks nessicary to sway all those people to following you. As a wizard, that may be difficult.(Though not totally impossible....you'd need to be an enchantment specalist with the social profiency AT THE LEAST, and then would need to have a good cha(and/or lots and lots and lots and lots of cha buffs) to boot.)

[Talya]

A PrC cannot ever make a sorc tier 1 because no matter what a sorc is limited by their spells known. The ONLY way for a sorc to become tier 1 is to make it not have limited spells known, and I don't know of any PrC that can do that. No matter what PrC they take, the sorc will always be tier 2. The only exception to that would be a PrC that allows the sorc to break it's spells known limit/become JUST AS VERSATILE as a wizard, and I know of NO PrC that can obtain that.

*cough*mage of the arcane order*cough* (as suggested!)

Not technically spells known, per se, but definitely provides the ability to cast pretty much any spell you want on demand. Alternately, something like rainbow servant, which puts all cleric spells on your spells known list (and since text trumps tables, doesn't cost you any caster levels, either.)

[agahii]

I'm curious why you would need high social skills as a wizard to dominate people. If a wizard went this rout he would never need to be seen by anyone not dominated by him.

You also ignored JaronK's argument about the undead (specifically animate dread warrior and spellstiching leading to infinite armies of class leveled minions). Your whole clerics better argument rests on rebuke undead, a kinda crappy way to control a few HD more undead than a wizard(without cheezing it..NOTE cheese included, wizards get infinite undead which beats rebuke undead).

[Maho-Tsukai]

First of all, Raibow servant dose not do that for a Sorc. Rainbow Servant only gives the whole cleric list to fixed-list casters like the Dread Necro or Beguiler. All it dose for a Sorc is allow them to choose their spells known from the cleric OR wiz/sorc list instead of just the wiz/sorc list. Also, Rainbow Servant by RAW makes you lose NO CLs as text trumps table and the text gives them 10/10 CL progression.

As for Mage of the Arcane Order, I have never seen it, nor have I seen a sorc with it EVER listed as a tier 1 caster. I don't know what it dose, though, so I can't say if your right or wrong on that one...If you can find me a solid source, other then your own opinion, which states that a sorc with that PrC is a tier 1 I will take back what I said earler reguarding their being no PrCs that can make a sorc tier 1 but until then it is safer to just assume that they would remain a tier 2...

As for necromancy...there are plenty of reasons the cleric dose it better...I'll lay them out here..

A) He can do it earler then you. Animate dead at level 3 instead of Animate at level 4 makes a big difference..

B) He can animate and control more undead then you. Desecrate, Deathbound Domain, General of Undeath, Undead Mastery and Zone of Animation in epic. All of those will be nigh impossible to get on a wizard and make the wizard look pretty fail as a necromancer by comparison.

C) EVERYTHING you can do in Necromancy, the cleric can do...and MANY things the cleric can do, you can't. The cleric can spellstitch himself if he becomes undead by gaining arcane casting from the magic domain. Chances are he has more wisdom then you...he just played your own game. He can poach ANY necromancy spell from your list he wants via the divine magician ACF while you struggle to get all the cleric list exclusive necromancy spells that you want such as destruction, slay living, inflicts, desecrate(though not necromancy by school) ect....

D) Rebuke Undead > Command/Control Undead. Seirously. With Rebuke he can hit multible targets at once and they are dominated. They are his slaves until they "die", no questions asked....Command Undead dose that for UNINTELIGENT Undead, but for INTELIGENT undead it dose not do any of that.

It only makes them frendly-ish towards you and forces you to make a CHARISMA(not your highest stat) check against them to make them do anything....last time I checked, all the spawn-making undead where inteligent. Even worse, command undead only effects one undead creature while rebuke can effect many at once....and command also costs a valuble spell slot while rebuke dose not...

Now, the Dread Necromancer is better at it then even the cleric, and can poach ANYBODY'S necromancy spells with advance learning, but the Dread Necro is not tier 1, so yeah..

As of now my best option seems to be an enchanter with the social profiency ACF who somehow obtains absurd social skill checks or a sorcerer/mage of the arcane order if that PrC actually is widly considered to make them a tier 1 instead of a tier 2.

[The-Mage-King]

First of all, Raibow servant dose not do that for a Sorc. Rainbow Servant only gives the whole cleric list to fixed-list casters like the Dread Necro or Beguiler. All it dose for a Sorc is allow them to choose their spells known from the cleric OR wiz/sorc list instead of just the wiz/sorc list. Also, Rainbow Servant by RAW makes you lose NO CLs as text trumps table and the text gives them 10/10 CL progression.

As for Mage of the Arcane Order, I have never seen it, nor have I seen a sorc with it EVER listed as a tier 1 caster. I don't know what it dose, though, so I can't say if your right or wrong on that one...If you can find me a solid source, other then your own opinion, which states that a sorc with that PrC is a tier 1 I will take back what I said earler reguarding their being no PrCs that can make a sorc tier 1 but until then it is safer to just assume that they would remain a tier 2...

Mage of the Arcane Order is in Complete Arcane. Basically, you get to draw any Sorc/Wizard spell from the Spellpool, which you then have to pay off at a later date.

ANY spell. Even spontaneously. At maximum level, you have 10 days to pay it off.

There are a few limits, of course- you can't pull more than 1/2th your CL/day from it, and it takes a full-round action to do so.

Also, Zeal's PrC tier list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107618) puts it at up 1 Tier. Throwing that out there.

[Talya]

As for Mage of the Arcane Order, I have never seen it, nor have I seen a sorc with it EVER listed as a tier 1 caster. II don't know what it dose, so I can't say if your right or wrong on that one...

Mage of the Arcane Order gives you membership to an evidently extremely large guild of arcane spellcasters. You can, as a full round action, cast any arcane spell from a "spell pool." You then incur a spell debt to the pool, equal to the level of the spell you cast. You must prepare a spell (which requires arcane preparation feat--but you already had to have that feat to get into the class) within the next 5 days that equals the level of the spell that you borrowed from the pool (or several lower level spells that add up to the same level) or they suspend your access to the spell pool.

There is no restriction on what the spell is, only the level of spells you can borrow. Of course, it does make casting any spell not on your list a full round action, but that's a small price for giving a sorcerer access to every arcane spell in the game.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, but a tier 1 PrC dose not make a base class a tier 1 unless it dose something amazingly cheesy....for a sorc, that would mean breaking it's spells known limitation, though from what you seem to say about the class it dose just that. Though, what do you mean by "pay"....do you mean with actual gold? If not, then what kind of "payment" is it? Also, is there a way to make metamagic as a sorc not so painfully long to apply? If I am going to chain dominate I don't want to spend massive ammounts of time applying my metamagic feats to do that, after all..

EDIT: Ninja'ed on the payment thing. That actually sounds liveable...though I'd still be a tier 2 for early levels unless we started out high level...Is there a way thats not totally sup-optimal to get Diplomacy and Sense Motive on the sorc's class skill list? If so then that build COULD work.....but I still can't help but want to try to do this with a wizard instead...

[Talya]

Also, is there a way to make metamagic as a sorc not so painfully long to apply?

Metamagic Specialist (PHB2 variant). I seem to recall a feat as well...

[The-Mage-King]

EDIT: Ninja'ed on the payment thing. That actually sounds liveable...though I'd still be a tier 2 for early levels unless we started out high level...Is there a way thats not totally sup-optimal to get Diplomacy and Sense Motive on the sorc's class skill list? If so then that build COULD work.....but I still can't help but want to try to do this with a wizard instead...

Human Paragon for 3 levels, with able learner at 1st?

So Human Paragon 1/Sorcerer 1/Human Paragon 2/3/Sorc 2/ect.


You lose 1 CL, but you get- the skills, a bonus feat, and +2 Cha.

[Talya]

If you have any spare feats, Martial study x2. Pick a white raven and a setting sun maneuver. Presto, you've got diplomacy and sense motive.

[FMArthur]

The problem with MotAO is that it's full of Sorcerers doing the same thing you are. :smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

While I disagree with your sentiment that non-diplomancer level social skills are even particularly useful for taking over the world, it's not much of an obstacle. Planar Bind a Succubus, Lilitu, or other socially skillful being (hey, if you can get away with it, grab a fiendish diplomancer, nothing in the spell descriptions say the targets can't have class levels). Have it be your mouthpiece until the spell runs out. Then get another one. If you fear retribution, kill it before it leaves.

[agahii]

As for necromancy...there are plenty of reasons the cleric dose it better...I'll lay them out here..

A) He can do it earler then you. Animate dead at level 3 instead of Animate at level 4 makes a big difference..


Wizards can get it at 3. Dread necro with scripe scroll, you put that scroll in your spellbook, done.



B) He can animate and control more undead then you. Desecrate, Deathbound Domain, General of Undeath, Undead Mastery and Zone of Animation in epic. All of those will be nigh impossible to get on a wizard and make the wizard look pretty fail as a necromancer by comparison.


See above to add spells to spell list, also no option here beats animate dread warrior for numbers or minion power.



C) EVERYTHING you can do in Necromancy, the cleric can do...and MANY things the cleric can do, you can't. The cleric can spellstitch himself if he becomes undead by gaining arcane casting from the magic domain. Chances are he has more wisdom then you...he just played your own game. He can poach ANY necromancy spell from your list he wants via the divine magician ACF while you struggle to get all the cleric list exclusive necromancy spells that you want such as destruction, slay living, inflicts, desecrate(though not necromancy by school) ect....



You mention getting spells via iteams and feats that the Arcane caster has access to (items) and (feats) which the arcane caster has versions of(arcane disciple ect)



D) Rebuke Undead > Command/Control Undead. Seirously. With Rebuke he can hit multible targets at once and they are dominated. They are his slaves until they "die", no questions asked....Command Undead dose that for UNINTELIGENT Undead, but for INTELIGENT undead it dose not do any of that.


Rebuke is not infinite, you make a check to control, which has severe HD limits, and must make a rebuke check every time you give an order. If you are playing spawn making undead cheese, the wizard only needs to control one undead that can make spawn just like the cleric to get an infinite army. Cheeze arguments work both ways remember.

[Talya]

Unless you're playing a dread necro, you're an amateur at building an undead legion. :smallamused:

I love DN...one of the better designed classes in the game. It's a DMs bookkeeping nightmare, though.

[The-Mage-King]

Wizards can get it at 3. Dread necro with scripe scroll, you put that scroll in your spellbook, done.

No, you can't.

A wizard can only put Wizard scrolls into his spellbook. Not any Arcane scrolls. Just Wizard spell scrolls.

[Divide by Zero]

Yeah, but I stated in the OP I wanted a Tier 1, here. Dread Necro is a teir 3, not a tier 1

Tiers are arbitrary metagame constructs that have nothing to do with the official rules. Why do they matter? If you can do it with an ostensibly less powerful class, what's wrong with that?

[agahii]

No, you can't.

A wizard can only put Wizard scrolls into his spellbook. Not any Arcane scrolls. Just Wizard spell scrolls.

Research rules then, w/e. If it is arcane already no reason you cant research a wizard version. We are having cheese arguments already, so I know its cheese, but so are most of the OP's arguments.

[FMArthur]

"Cheese" in character building basically means acting in the spirit of cheating without actually doing any cheating, though.

[agahii]

He mentions infinite armies via spawn creating undead, and getting arcane spells via questionable means. I think we entered the realm of cheese here. Honestly researching already arcane spells seems fine to me from a DM standpoint, but I could see the cheese argument.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Isn't this like thread four now on world domination? How many worlds do you need to rule?

Anyway.

Go Red Wizard to get (Greater) Circle Magic, crank your caster level through the roof, Dominate everyone and everything. Take Leadership or find a Dominated Cleric/Artificer and have them help (the cleric) you or craft for you (the artificer) a self resetting magical trap of Guidance of the Avatar on a Gnomish Quickrazor. You now have a +20 on any skill check you make and you can reactivate the trap EVERY TURN as a free action. And to the arguement that says you can't sheath it as a free action, just pace back and forth when useing it, you can sheath is as part of a move action.

[dextercorvia]

I'm still hung up on why you have to play a Tier 1 class, and then you lock yourself into doing one thing. The point of T1 is that you can do everything well -- yes, even that. You are fixated on conquering the world by an army. The difference between this and saying, "I want a Tier 1 class that is the best at melee and not reliant on Wisdom", is just a matter of scale. You are still limiting yourself to unoptimized tactics at the same time that you scream that it isn't optimized enough."

If you are playing T1 just because it's T1, then be a god, and let the puny mortals do whatever they want, because you don't care.

[Psyren]

Archivist with Academic Priest from Dragonlance. Alternatively, StP Erudite/Thrallherd. Both can dump Wis entirely and easily rule the world.

What do I win?

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Archivist with Academic Priest from Dragonlance. Alternatively, StP Erudite/Thrallherd. Both can dump Wis entirely and easily rule the world.

What do I win?

A high-five and a Psionic Cookie.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bard. With 10 minutes of RP and a bluff check, you can turn Harvey Dent into Two Face. With Glibness, you can have such a high Bluff check that you can literally convince people that they *want* to be your willing servants/slaves.

Who needs Dominate spells? Diplomancy is much more permanent and even continues to function in an AMF.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Bard. With 10 minutes of RP and a bluff check, you can turn Harvey Dent into Two Face. With Glibness, you can have such a high Bluff check that you can literally convince people that they *want* to be your willing servants/slaves.

Who needs Dominate spells? Diplomancy is much more permanent and even continues to function in an AMF.

Any 10/Exemplar 5/Any 5. OR Any 5/Chameleon 2/Full Casting Prc 3/Exemplar 5/Full Casting Prc 5. Pick-up Planar Touchstone (Catacombs of Enlightenment) and Sanctum Spell for 9th level spells and the ability to use any skill instead of diplomacy, if that ruling of Sanctum spell doesn't fly for you, you get 8th level spells but they are from any arcane class so, worth it.

[FMArthur]

The Jumplomancer turns every person into a crazed fanatic as he soars overhead.

[Doktor Per]

Also...that plot has merit...IF, AND THIS IS A BIG IF, you can get the social skill checks nessicary to sway all those people to following you. As a wizard, that may be difficult.(Though not totally impossible....you'd need to be an enchantment specalist with the social profiency AT THE LEAST, and then would need to have a good cha(and/or lots and lots and lots and lots of cha buffs) to boot.)

No I wouldn't, I have co-conspirators who fill the roles that I feel can be done better, in order to build my doomsday device (that's a Triple D!!!). After all, I am only one person and being smart about resources is vital. Having a face that's not your own is always beneficial as well as the constructed saviour / your puppet won't even have to meet again after agreeing on this plan.

You buy a pair of ring of communications so while he goes around building his image and such while you can do all the skullduggery you want. You work together, achieve goals through cooperation, setting up the events that will hinder the governments surviving the onslaught. All without ever meeting and because you never meet, you will never be seen together and even if you get scried at any point. They won't see you talking to each other, just mumbling to yourself.

People tend not to notice when the future tyrant walks around, because he has reflective disguise on at all times. People just think that he's one of them. I dump bodies in a bag of devouring, I made a deal with a demon lord to clean up the messes I make, writing letters about "going abroad" or people getting lost on hunting trips. All so genocides can happen. Oh yes, and I have the cult of Nerull funding the whole operation. They really, really liked my plans.

[Divide by Zero]

He mentions infinite armies via spawn creating undead, and getting arcane spells via questionable means. I think we entered the realm of cheese here. Honestly researching already arcane spells seems fine to me from a DM standpoint, but I could see the cheese argument.

But there's a difference between questionable rules interpretation and custom creation rules. If we're ignoring DM input, then we may as well just research an "I Win" spell and cut out all the rest of the nonsense.

[Gorfang113]

Right, I think ive come up with a way to take control. This will take over the world for you, and if willing to go far enough all of time and space. Sit back, cause this is gonna take a while....
Right, so it begins with being a wizard and having the dominate monster spell. First you need to find a creature that has the dominate ability to use as overseers. For this example I will use the neogi, as they work perfectly for this. Go to any neogi group of a decent enough size and use dominate to take over the administrarch. Due to their culture the administrach will consider you its owner. By default that means that the rest of the community also belongs to you as they beglong to the administrach (or most of them, any ones left will probably submit, if not repeat dominate on them). Once this is done subtly use the neogi to enslave and kidnap a core of arcane casters. If need be make it so that the enslaving is legitament under neogi law, it will raise less questions. They will then be ordered to entirely devote themselves to dominating and charming other things. They will function as taskmasters of a sort. They will do the same as above to take more arcane casters and artificers. All dominated creatures will be commanded to return for re-enslavment before the casting is up, or return to cells designed for them if this cannot be achived. If this is also immpossible they are to commit suicide. This also applies if it appears they will be captured/ un-dominated.
The newest enslaved force will work as assemblers. They will be used to create constructs of any kind really. They are to create things untill they need more experience to keep working. They will for groups and work like legitament adventures. They will be either continualy dominated or geased into doing this. Any who die will be used as components for flesh golems. Shield Guardians will be created for the neogi, taskmasters and you. You can also construct Runic guardians for yourself or anyone you see fit (i personly love them). Get yourself 2 enslaved (or if possible, willing) knights to use their shield ability to protect you. By this point you are almost untouchable. Meanwhile you slaves are busy making legions for you. The arcane casters who have it can use walls of stone and iron to cut down on material costs. At this point it is a matter of waiting untill you feel your army is big enough (If you are really feeling mean, have things like warforged created, have them worship you, and once you have enough ascend and gain divine ranks). Once your army is large enough launch your invasion and drown the world in your constucts. Of course it doesnt have to stop there.....
That was only taking the world (and becoming a deity in the bargin), lets take a couple more. Now that the world is yours you can really get into full production. You can now have people creating your armies as a job (assuming you only took control, not anihilating everything). You can basicly turn the entire world over to the task of making you armies bigger (and worshiping you, increasing you divine rank). Once you feel ready, take a trip to the next inhabited world on the material plane and take over that to. Continue untill you basiclly own the material plane. As you go convert people to your worship, untill you have control over the material plane. at this point so many people and constructs are worshiping you that your divine rank will go higher that any other dieties.
So, now you own an entire plane, but I ask again, why stop there? To begin with, you now have the entire material plane dedicated to creating your constuct armies. Basicly you have close to infinite, continual output. Remind you of anything? Open pernament gates to the abyss. Send forth your infinite legions to replace the devils role in holding back the demonic tide by matching it with your own. If you are lucky it may even be enough to actually turn back and destroy the demons. Either way you have ended the devils involvment in the Blood War (or ended it all together). Now you can point to the devils to the celestials and say, "Go get 'em". With that war going you have weakend both sides. From there it will be childs play to use any leftover constructs and your devotees (pretty much all of the material plane) in addition to your obscenly high divine rank to destroy them both. From there you can move on to the other planes until your empire streches across all of the planes. It will help you that by killing or converting the other dieties subjects you are stripping them of their power.
Now, you own everthing that there is now. You can do better. From here you need to find a time dragon. You can either dominate it or (since we conquered the world long ago, didn't we :smallbiggrin:) kill and raise it as a undead (awakining it using that one spell from LM). You then use its time travel abilities to trasport your legions across all of time. Now that you are THE diety you should have enough power to keep a paradox from destroying you and your infinite empire.
Congragulations, you now are the undisputed god and ruler of every space and every time in all of creation. The only real question left is, what next?:smallamused:

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Right, I think ive come up with a way to take control. This will take over the world for you, and if willing to go far enough all of time and space. Sit back, cause this is gonna take a while....
Right, so it begins with being a wizard and having the dominate monster spell. First you need to find a creature that has the dominate ability to use as overseers. For this example I will use the neogi, as they work perfectly for this. Go to any neogi group of a decent enough size and use dominate to take over the administrarch. Due to their culture the administrach will consider you its owner. By default that means that the rest of the community also belongs to you as they beglong to the administrach (or most of them, any ones left will probably submit, if not repeat dominate on them). Once this is done subtly use the neogi to enslave and kidnap a core of arcane casters. If need be make it so that the enslaving is legitament under neogi law, it will raise less questions. They will then be ordered to entirely devote themselves to dominating and charming other things. They will function as taskmasters of a sort. They will do the same as above to take more arcane casters and artificers. All dominated creatures will be commanded to return for re-enslavment before the casting is up, or return to cells designed for them if this cannot be achived. If this is also immpossible they are to commit suicide. This also applies if it appears they will be captured/ un-dominated.
The newest enslaved force will work as assemblers. They will be used to create constructs of any kind really. They are to create things untill they need more experience to keep working. They will for groups and work like legitament adventures. They will be either continualy dominated or geased into doing this. Any who die will be used as components for flesh golems. Shield Guardians will be created for the neogi, taskmasters and you. You can also construct Runic guardians for yourself or anyone you see fit (i personly love them). Get yourself 2 enslaved (or if possible, willing) knights to use their shield ability to protect you. By this point you are almost untouchable. Meanwhile you slaves are busy making legions for you. The arcane casters who have it can use walls of stone and iron to cut down on material costs. At this point it is a matter of waiting untill you feel your army is big enough (If you are really feeling mean, have things like warforged created, have them worship you, and once you have enough ascend and gain divine ranks). Once your army is large enough launch your invasion and drown the world in your constucts. Of course it doesnt have to stop there.....
That was only taking the world (and becoming a deity in the bargin), lets take a couple more. Now that the world is yours you can really get into full production. You can now have people creating your armies as a job (assuming you only took control, not anihilating everything). You can basicly turn the entire world over to the task of making you armies bigger (and worshiping you, increasing you divine rank). Once you feel ready, take a trip to the next inhabited world on the material plane and take over that to. Continue untill you basiclly own the material plane. As you go convert people to your worship, untill you have control over the material plane. at this point so many people and constructs are worshiping you that your divine rank will go higher that any other dieties.
So, now you own an entire plane, but I ask again, why stop there? To begin with, you now have the entire material plane dedicated to creating your constuct armies. Basicly you have close to infinite, continual output. Remind you of anything? Open pernament gates to the abyss. Send forth your infinite legions to replace the devils role in holding back the demonic tide by matching it with your own. If you are lucky it may even be enough to actually turn back and destroy the demons. Either way you have ended the devils involvment in the Blood War (or ended it all together). Now you can point to the devils to the celestials and say, "Go get 'em". With that war going you have weakend both sides. From there it will be childs play to use any leftover constructs and your devotees (pretty much all of the material plane) in addition to your obscenly high divine rank to destroy them both. From there you can move on to the other planes until your empire streches across all of the planes. It will help you that by killing or converting the other dieties subjects you are stripping them of their power.
Now, you own everthing that there is now. You can do better. From here you need to find a time dragon. You can either dominate it or (since we conquered the world long ago, didn't we :smallbiggrin:) kill and raise it as a undead (awakining it using that one spell from LM). You then use its time travel abilities to trasport your legions across all of time. Now that you are THE diety you should have enough power to keep a paradox from destroying you and your infinite empire.
Congragulations, you now are the undisputed god and ruler of every space and every time in all of creation. The only real question left is, what next?:smallamused:

One thing to add. In the section where you take over the abyss, make sure you obtain the shard of evil in the center. With that you should have even more power than you could possibly imagine. Then enter Baator, kill Asmodeus and take his ruby rod, making the shard complete again.

EDIT: Upon looking up this plan you need to find a new monster to dominate, Neogi are immune to 'Mind Affecting' spells and abilities. Also 'Dominated' creatures won't follow self-destructive commands and you also have to be on the same plane as them.

[Delcor]

how to make a tier 1, NON-WISDOM BASED caster who has a MECHANCIAL MEANS to take over the world....

Well in the campaign I am in:

The BBEG has an artifact from the Tome of Artifacts called The Brooch of the False God. Essentially it allows the wearer to appear as a God, without a high will save, anyone viewing the wearer believes that they are a God, and is basically dominated. The BBEG has used this power to rouse armies, construct forts, raid pillage and all that, you don't have to be a caster to use this.

So with huge political ties and armies of mooks, or good use of an artifact a martial class could acheive world domination.

[Deimess]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html :smallwink:

[Maho-Tsukai]

First of all, to Psyren, an Archivist has NO MECHANICAL WAY WHAT SO EVER to take over the world without dominate spells which require DOMAIN OR OBSCURE CLASS SCROLLS that your not likely to find. If you can prove me wrong , I would love to here, though...as I love the idea of the archivist as far as the class is concerned but see no way for it to take over without acssess to obscure class and/or domain scrolls(Neither of which your likely to obtain.) other then economancy which I already stated will get a DMG thrown at your head faster then every other method except munckinining/making pun-pun or something else that ridiculous.

Also, spell to power-euridite/thrallheard MAY be able to if it can get it's followers to be fanatic, somehow, as then it could have it's cleric minion make an undead army for them. Otherwise it has the dominate but no social skills issue of the non social proficiency ACF wizard, and a thrallheard's mooks are hardly numerous enough to be a "world conquering legion." Still an awesome class combination(who doesn't want an excuse to play "Giegue?") but not going to be getting a world conquering legion any time soon.

[Halna LeGavilk]

Enchanter 5/Incantatrix 8/Master Specialist (Enchanter) 2/Fatespinner 5
There, Tier 1.

So, next thing. Get Mindrape, Mind Fog, and Timestop. Mindrape is a 9th level spell, BoVD. Be a Silverbrow Human. Here's your feats:Snowcasting (Frostburn) + Eschew Materials (PHB) + Draconic Aura (Energy, Cold) (Dragon Magic). You'll also need Spell Focus (Enchantment) which is fine, for MS. Then, you'll also want Cold Focus, Greater Cold Focus, and you'll get Greater Spell Focus for free. You're going to want Shadow Weave Magic (worship Shar.) You should have Heighten Spell from Incantatrix. You should have 1, maybe 2 feats left over from this. Blow them on whatever. Leadership, maybe.


1st. Wizard- Scribe Scroll, Snowcasting, Iron Will
2nd. Wizard
3rd. Wizard-Eschew Materials
4th. Wizard
5th. Wizard-Heighten Spell
6th. Incantatrix- Chain Spell, Draconic Aura (Energy, Cold)
7th. Incantatrix
8th. Incantatrix
9th. Incantatrix- Spell Focus (Enchantment), Quicken Spell
10th. Incantatrix
11th. Incantatrix
12th. Incantatrix- Cold Focus, [Metamagic Feat]
13th. Incantatrix
14th. Master Specialist
15th. Master Specialist- Greater Cold Focus, Greater Spell Focus
16th. Fatespinner
17th. Fatespinner
18th. Fatespinner- Shadow Weave Magic
19th. Fatespinner
20th. Fatespinner

Your intelligence should be at least 34 (+12) (18 Base, 5 Levels, 5 Tome, 6 item). Also get Amulet of Second Chances, Band of Spell Enhancement, Veil of Allure.

So, at this point, your Mindrape DC should be:
10 (Base)
10 (SL) (Boosted by Snowcasting)
12 (Int)
4 (Silverbrow Human Combo)
4 (Spell Focus/Greater; Cold Focus/Greater)
2 (Veil of Allure)
4 (Spin)
A total of 46 DC. If you have flaws, Fey Heritage+Fey Power, for an additional +1.
Spells: 4/7/7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5

Now, here's the plan. Go to random town council meetings. You should have prepared one Greater Teleport, one Timestop, and one Mindrape. Everything else, 5th level and above, should be occupied by Mind Fog and Quickened Mind Fog.

This can work just about anywhere. First, find a high-level target, but one not as powerful as you (find some way to know their HD.) If you can't, oh well. Then, Timestop. you can lay down at least 4 Mind Fogs. Hopefully, they'll fail one of these saves. If not, oh well. Best case scenario, they have -20 to their Will saves. They'll almost certainly fail. If not, Amulet of Second Chance.

If you have to, prepare two Greate Teleports, one in, one out. Do this same thing, except to that Cleric. His save shouldn't be any greater than, say, +29, at best, maybe even like +31. With the -10 for Seal Fate, he'll almost certainly fail the Mindrape save DC.

[JackRackham]

I know I have made this thread add-nausiam BUT in my last thread somebody gave me the idea to just make one giant thread for all my discussion and debating over how to make a tier 1, NON-WISDOM BASED caster who has a MECHANCIAL MEANS to take over the world....

In past threads we have discussed everything from how to get social skills on a wizard so one could use manipulation to pull political puppet strings to trying to find a wizard a MECHANICAL means to build an army...

The former was easy enough, but the latter seemed impossible...however, their may still be a way. So, I ask you all, how would you, with a wizard, take over the world in a manner that would not get a DMG thrown at your head(So Economancy/breaking the locak economey is out, here.) that is NOT necromancy/building an undead army(as the cleric will ALWAYS be better then you at this.) and can be done around the time the cleric can start amassing his undead army, or at least close to it?

If you can't do it with a wizard, archivist is also an ok supstitute....or even artificer..as long as the class can function with a meh or low wisdom and is tier 1, it is exceptable....

At epic levels, create an island, protect it from sight and scrying. Cast another custom epic spell on all your minions and the island (paid or through the leadership feat) preventing them from leaving or betraying you in any way. Using yet another epic spell, create a true-breeding race that is linked to and controlled by you telepathically (preferably one that reproduces rapidly). Then, let them breed a lot. Build them into a world-beating army. You can also have the race worship you and become a God, which is useful in world-conquering. This all works better as a lich, because you have limitless time. You can import slaves to build your island and train your army as well.

[Silva Stormrage]

First of all, to Psyren, an Archivist has NO MECHANICAL WAY WHAT SO EVER to take over the world without dominate spells which require DOMAIN OR OBSCURE CLASS SCROLLS that your not likely to find. If you can prove me wrong , I would love to here, though...as I love the idea of the archivist as far as the class is concerned but see no way for it to take over without acssess to obscure class and/or domain scrolls(Neither of which your likely to obtain.) other then economancy which I already stated will get a DMG thrown at your head faster then every other method except munckinining/making pun-pun or something else that ridiculous.

Also, spell to power-euridite/thrallheard MAY be able to if it can get it's followers to be fanatic, somehow, as then it could have it's cleric minion make an undead army for them. Otherwise it has the dominate but no social skills issue of the non social proficiency ACF wizard, and a thrallheard's mooks are hardly numerous enough to be a "world conquering legion." Still an awesome class combination(who doesn't want an excuse to play "Giegue?") but not going to be getting a world conquering legion any time soon.

Um okay first off its NOT incredibly hard to find the archivist scrolls that you are looking for, artifacts they aren't. If it IS hard to find the scrolls then you are in a low magic world where an archivist could probably just nuke it anyway...

For spell to power euridte/thrallherd... are you aware how the thrallherd class works? Its believers are pretty much automatically fanatical and same with its thrall. And why would using a cleric to get an undead army be the best option? Clerics are still FAR worse than dread necromancers to get an undead army and even then undead armies are not the best to take over the world. (Unless we are talking about chain spawning in which case the thrallherd can just have his one shadow keep killing his minions over and over again for a year until he has near infinite shadows under one shadow's control. Have that one shadow order the rest to follow you, then you use imprisonment on the shadow and name it djkshjduigkjshugj.) Planar Binding is a better option then using undead anyway since pitfiends are stronger than undead skeletons and zombies and you can't get enough with rebuke to have an army of them. (This is once again not counting chain spawning because that is pure cheese.)


Edit: Oh and also command undead is much greater than rebuke undead without chain spawning

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154158

Read the link to show how command undead is better.

[Psyren]

First of all, to Psyren, an Archivist has NO MECHANICAL WAY WHAT SO EVER to take over the world without dominate spells which require DOMAIN OR OBSCURE CLASS SCROLLS that your not likely to find.

An Archivist can cause a Wightocalypse - there, no domination necessary. From there he has myriad ways to keep himself safe from the horde, ranging from undead-controlling traps to positive energy planar breaches to becoming undead himself.


other then economancy which I already stated will get a DMG thrown at your head faster then every other method except munckinining/making pun-pun or something else that ridiculous.

Anything in a "take over the world" thread will get the DMG thrown at you. I thought this was a TO exercise. Are you actually planning to do anything like this in a game? :smallconfused:


Also, spell to power-euridite/thrallheard MAY be able to if it can get it's followers to be fanatic, somehow

Its followers ARE fanatic. "And so they come, eager to be led, happy to follow, and completely under the thrallherd’s control" - XPH 153.

[Silva Stormrage]

Anything in a "take over the world" thread will get the DMG thrown at you. I thought this was a TO exercise. Are you actually planning to do anything like this in a game? :smallconfused:

Not necessarily, I am currently in a campaign where the goal is to end up the ruler of the world. Most involving chain spawning, thrallherd abuse (sending your thrall into combat over and over again until everything is dead etc) are banned in almost every table though. Some DM's don't mind undead armies taking over cities either (my current plan >.>).

[Maho-Tsukai]

An Archivist can cause a Wightocalypse - there, no domination necessary. From there he has myriad ways to keep himself safe from the horde, ranging from undead-controlling traps to positive energy planar breaches to becoming undead himself.

That's not world domination, though. That's DESTROYING the world. World DOMINATION implies that you hold actual power over the planet and have people obediently serving you. Wrightpoclypse dose destroy society, but without a way to control all those wrights(which you lack as an archivist due to not having rebuke and command undead being utter fail on intelligent undead, which wrights are.) you become nothing more then a zombi apoc survvior having to fight for survival in the new wrightworld ...hardly what I would call the glorious dark emperor of the necropolis. Destroying the world is trivial for a wizard or archivist...both classes have ten billion or more ways of destroying the world...but destroying the world gets you nothing....Hence why I don't want to DESTROY it...I want to RULE it, and the wrightpoclypse dose nothing for you in the ruling area...However, if you have an alternative method for global DOMINATION(Not destruction!) without rare scrolls for an archivist I would love to hear it.

Also, I stand corrected on Thrallheard. If it's minions are fanatical then it fits like a glove here....you just have to use your minion's class powers instead of your own to make your army, but then again minions are part of your class anyway, so yeah...

Also, this is OBVIOUSLY, not for a real game. If it was I would not actually need a mechanical way of taking over the world as if a DM would even allow me to make a character with this as his goal in the first place he would, if he wanted to incorporate my character's goals into the game, use RP/ houserueling/whatever to make up for my character's lack of any mechanical means to take over the world...so in a real game all of this stuff would either be disallowed or unnecessary.

[Doktor Per]

Well Maho, you want to play an Int-based Tier 1 guy with undead minions or whatever that can rule the world. This limits your choices significantly. I know you want to play this thing in your DM's campaign. I seriously doubt your idea is going to take flight once you hit your fourth thread.

I still don't understand why you don't want Wisdom. What is it about wisdom that bothers you? (Because Wisdom is quite important if you want to rule the world.) World domination often involves breaking a lot of eggs. But then again, world domination is very possible for a bard who just holds his cards right. You are asking us to play Bond villains here, but you keep imposing arbitrary restrictions, because of your crystallized idea of what it shouldn't be. Maybe you need to chill on your standards.

[FMArthur]

What about just using that Gatecrasher PrC which defeats magical protections against intrusions, and literally casting dominate on kings, one at a time? Sounds easier than building an obviously evil army that attracts heroes and armies of Good like a magnet.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I never said I needed UNDEAD minions. Just a mechanical way to conquer the world. I don't care what those minions are...I just want an army of minions or some other MECHANICAL means of world domination...and this is not for an actual game, it's an exercise to see if any non-wisdom based tier 1 class can beat the cleric at his own game and take over the world using MECHANICAL MEANS....not RP...not DM fiat...actual hard mechanics. As I said earlier in an actual game you would either be denied the ability to take over or have access to non-mechanical/RP/DM fiat means of takeover, so much of what is being said here would never be viable in a real game...also, some wisdom is fine, but I don't want it to be my casting stat, here...why? Well, I have silly personal reasons, but consider it a rule of the exercise.

Also, domination has been talked about add-nausiam. It's a viable tactic, but basically REQUIRES you to pass social skill checks unless your using Mind Rape as your dominate spell of choice. Therefore, since wizards are not the best at getting social skills or passing social skill checks, this has been considered a sup-par method, but still one that is doable if you buff your charisma and social skill checks via items and spells and get social skills on your class list, many of which have already been discussed(The Social proficiency ACF and starting as a Human Paragon being the best ones, here.)

[FMArthur]

None of the mechanics for any abilities ever say "you rule the world". EVERY SINGLE WAY TO WIN MINDS AND BATTLES can be a tool you use - just the same as the armies you are so fixated on - to advance yourself to the PURELY ROLEPLAY goal of world domination. If you only want to do it one way, and you already know that way, what do you want from these threads? This is like the fourth one.

[Xtomjames]

Anyone consider the Warlock?

At 12th level he gains the ability to imbue items. if he has maxed out ranks in use magic device and knowledge arcana and knowledge religion he can make magically permanent items that can enthrall, captivate, etc.

Simplest method would be to start imbuing coins with any number of spells that activate once touched by someone other than the warlock. The spell trigger then causes the person to become enthralled or trusting or what have you with the Warlock.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Because I am looking for a mechanical foundation to my takeover. Not just saying "Oh, I raise an army by killing the orc leader and making the others follow me out of fear." Instead, I am looking for, say, the mechanical way to pass that impossible to pass for the standard wizard intimidate check needed to do such a thing....

Basically, I am looking for a mechanical foundation for global conquest....and to me DM hand-waving is not a mechanical foundation. I am not saying that RP should be totally excluded here but rather that RP should compliment the global conquest method, not BE it. Also, ANY RP methods of convincing others to do your bidding will require a social skills check of some kind, something wizards are not that good at. If you could get a way to, say, get your wizard to be able to reliably pass an Intimidate check he could just threaten to locate city bomb an area unless the king handed control to him...but the issue here is GETTING the non-cha dependent, no social skills as class skills wizard to pass his intimidate, bluff or diplomacy checks reliably.

[Doktor Per]

I never said I needed UNDEAD minions. Just a mechanical way to conquer the world. I don't care what those minions are...I just want an army of minions or some other MECHANICAL means of world domination...and this is not for an actual game, it's an exercise to see if any non-wisdom based tier 1 class can beat the cleric at his own game and take over the world using MECHANICAL MEANS....not RP...not DM fiat...actual hard mechanics. As I said earlier in an actual game you would either be denied the ability to take over or have access to non-mechanical/RP/DM fiat means of takeover, so much of what is being said here would never be viable in a real game...also, some wisdom is fine, but I don't want it to be my casting stat, here...why? Well, I have silly personal reasons, but consider it a rule of the exercise.

Also, domination has been talked about add-nausiam. It's a viable tactic, but basically REQUIRES you to pass social skill checks unless your using Mind Rape as your dominate spell of choice. Therefore, since wizards are not the best at getting social skills or passing social skill checks, this has been considered a sup-par method, but still one that is doable if you buff your charisma and social skill checks via items and spells and get social skills on your class list, many of which have already been discussed(The Social proficiency ACF and starting as a Human Paragon being the best ones, here.)

Short version: There's no mechanical way to get what you want. Close the thread.

Long: And yes, I also remember you talking about domination ad-nauseum untill I pointed you towards the DC 15 sense motive check to see if someone is dominated. But the core of the problem is that World Domination is a pretty epic quest, and Dungeons and Dragons is not about "sidestep epic quest" but "going on epic quest!" There are twists and turns, allies are made, enemies are slain and things happen in general where the players interact either Mechanically or through Roleplaying with the world, which responds depending on DM fiat, as he has made this world.
World domination might come out of that evolution. But you see, this epic quest is in that box with Schroedinger's cat. We don't even know if there is a king at this point. We can only theorize, and as such can only give you suggestions to approaches which you feel justified in criticizing.



Edit: And as to your latest post: Learn to rely on your teammates. There's a reason why games have parties of adventurers instead of an adventurer.

[Maho-Tsukai]

True, so I guess instead of asking how to "take over the world" with I wizard I should ask "How can I get my wizard(Or Archivist) social skills, and how can I get him to pass them easily and on a regular basis without having to spend every spell slot he has on a cha or skill buff?" as in the end good social skill checks are all one would really need for global domination if your relying on the plot rather then pure mechanics.

[Doktor Per]

Global domination is inherently DM fiat. There are no mechanics for it.

[Psyren]

That's not world domination, though. That's DESTROYING the world.

Nonsense. The world is still very much there, and I control its natural resources. It's not my fault the premise is poorly defined.

[Eloel]

1- Find a high level Cleric
2- Dominate
3- ???
4- Profit!

[Gnaeus]

True, so I guess instead of asking how to "take over the world" with I wizard I should ask "How can I get my wizard(Or Archivist) social skills, and how can I get him to pass them easily and on a regular basis without having to spend every spell slot he has on a cha or skill buff?" as in the end good social skill checks are all one would really need for global domination if your relying on the plot rather then pure mechanics.

That really isn't true either.

You don't need a skill check to make people/monsters do what they would logically, according to their nature, do anyway. You don't need super high charisma to win an opposed roll to buy food, because selling you food is something that your typical merchant is going to want to do anyway.

Wizards can easily generate absurd amounts of gold. They could then spend this gold hiring an army. You don't need stupid diplomacy to hire mercenaries. Mercenaries want to take your money.

My recommendation: Buy a lot of pigs and some light horses. Shapechange into a giant or demon. PaO the pigs (one at a time) into Orcs or Hobgoblins (Same kingdom, size, class means permanent polymorph). Explain to then that you are their god (They probably have very little sense motive or spellcraft, and they know that they were pigs 5 minutes ago), and that you expect them to form your army and crush your enemies, in exchange for loot. The DC for this check should be below 10, you are trying to get people to believe things that make perfect sense, and act according to their natures. After you have built your pig>orc or hobgoblin army, start PAOing the horses into giants.

[Coidzor]

JaronK: What's this about Rune Smith and create dread warrior?

...edit: Am I the only one who just got a sense of deja vu from me saying that? *scurries off to google*


My recommendation: Buy a lot of pigs and some light horses. Shapechange into a giant or demon. PaO the pigs (one at a time) into Orcs or Hobgoblins (Same kingdom, size, class means permanent polymorph). Explain to then that you are their god (They probably have very little sense motive or spellcraft, and they know that they were pigs 5 minutes ago), and that you expect them to form your army and crush your enemies, in exchange for loot. The DC for this check should be below 10, you are trying to get people to believe things that make perfect sense, and act according to their natures. After you have built your pig>orc or hobgoblin army, start PAOing the horses into giants.

Well, there's one that's new to me. Nifty idea.

edit: however, mules are cheaper if all you wanted the light horses for was as a source of Large-sized creatures. 8 gp vs. 75 gp.

[JackRackham]

At epic levels, create an island, protect it from sight and scrying. Cast another custom epic spell on all your minions and the island (paid or through the leadership feat) preventing them from leaving or betraying you in any way. Using yet another epic spell, create a true-breeding race that is linked to and controlled by you telepathically (preferably one that reproduces rapidly). Then, let them breed a lot. Build them into a world-beating army. You can also have the race worship you and become a God, which is useful in world-conquering. This all works better as a lich, because you have limitless time. You can import slaves to build your island and train your army as well.

OK, am I missing something? Is there some reason creating your own true-breeding race, that is both dominated by you and telepathically linked to you, that also has a spell cast on them that will kill them if they betray you and that would worship you as a God - because you created them, can speak to them telepathically and you control them - would NOT work? Or were you looking for a way you could do so Pre-Epic? Also, note that this spell can be done pretty easily at 21st or 22nd level (whenever you 1st get Epic spellcasting).

Also, there's no reason your island (which did not exist before, is invisible to scrying and sight, and exists on no map, anywhere) can't also have a spell cast around it that causes the wind and tides to pull ships safely past it. There's no reason anyone should find out (only a stronger epic caster COULD and unless someone specifically thought you'd do this, they have no reason to scry on this specific spot).

All in all, we're looking at like five epic spells, to conquer the world (Also, I've made these spells. They are quite feasible, especially with the help (you can easily pay them, if need be) of a handful of other casters.

[JackRackham]

The race would be generally free-willed, but would have a permanent dominate effect hard-wired into them, so that any command you give them would be followed without question.

These spells could be cast by any epic caster. Some of the seeds might be divine, in which case one would need to get their knowledge religion fairly high, but this is very doable for a high INT character, who could take 1-2 levels as an Epic Cleric, put all their skill points into spellcraft and knowledge religion. Since you don't get spell progression anymore at those levels, you would lose nothing by doing so (access to slightly different feats for 1-2 levels, w/ overlap, so you could take the same feat anyway).

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

True, so I guess instead of asking how to "take over the world" with I wizard I should ask "How can I get my wizard(Or Archivist) social skills, and how can I get him to pass them easily and on a regular basis without having to spend every spell slot he has on a cha or skill buff?" as in the end good social skill checks are all one would really need for global domination if your relying on the plot rather then pure mechanics.

Be a Wizard with the Enchanter (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Enchanter_Variants) variant, make nice with a thrid level cleric, pay 3000 gold and 240 exp making a resetting trap (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Traps) of Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a), that's how.

[Zale]

Why does it have to be an Int based caster?

If you absolutely must have social skills, why not just use a Bard?

I'm sure a level 20 bard could just abuse diplomacy to get an army.

[Coidzor]

Why does it have to be an Int based caster?

If you absolutely must have social skills, why not just use a Bard?

I'm sure a level 20 bard could just abuse diplomacy to get an army.

It seems to become available around 6th level, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171091) though that's with leadership on the table. Though it seems like it could still work without the cohort's aid anyway, since all one reliably needs to be able to do is make a DC 70 check to make hostiles into helpfuls.

Admittedly, I believe it takes a bit longer for a character that wants to do anything other than diplomancy to get up there.

edit: And while it does gimp the bard as an actual bard... Fey Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bard)with the right feats(like, say, Undead Empathy) can diplomance every creature type, including mindless undead...