Terrible ending to campaign

[Cornelius Grim]

So recently my DM had us going on a quest to save the world rom Abberations, which of course is difficult enough with my character being an Illithid cultist. But more to the point, while we were on the quest, after the dread necromancer completed an animate dead to make some horrifying undead, we were all paralyzed, every single one of us, one by one. When we woke up, we were on the Astral Plane in a Githzerai city (the quest minorly revolved around them) and we couldn't move our legs and none of us had hands. In the end, after we regained circulation in our legs, we went to the bard's house on the Astral Plane, where his wife lived, and after cleric spells failed, there was no way to get our hands back. It also turned out me, the sorcerer, and my best buddy, the wizard, were forever tied off from Arcane Magic. We couldn't cast any spells. That was the end of the campaign. He says in the next campaign, we may perhaps (which almost always means "no" with him), lead something up to getting our hands back, but he never told us anything about us gaining back our arcane power. Is it me, or is that just an awful way to end the campaign? All the players, which is about 9, were dissapointed with the ending, and our DM said mainly it was because some of the characters/players got on his nerves, while others power-gamed, so this was his way of getting us to stop. He didn't even talked to us outside of game about it. or asked us to stop. He just ended the campaign, just like that. :smallannoyed: I am unsatisfied, as is the rest of the group. Cutting the spellcasters off from spells permanently was a bit overkill though. Anyone have anything that may make this seem a tiny bit...horrible? Or am I right to think that was a less than satisfactory ending. :smallfrown:

[GoblinArchmage]

I think that it was an immature way to handle things on your DM's part, so yes, I do agree that that ending sucks.

[Flame of Anor]

What? That's an awful thing for your DM to do! I'd look into getting a new one if he doesn't respond to some constructive criticism.

[Dragonsoul]

Oh dear this is going to get messy...

Yes it was a bad end, because the Players are unhappy Q.E.D. The game ended badly.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Terrible thing for your DM to do, but before you do anything too crazy or mindblowing, talk with him and ask him just exactly what was the problem he saw in each of the 9 characters and/or players.

Worst case scenario, you vote with your feet. Close to that scenario, send him here!:smallwink:

[Ladorak]

He says in the next campaign, we may perhaps (which almost always means "no" with him), lead something up to getting our hands back, but he never told us anything about us gaining back our arcane power.

The correct responce was 'I find it highly unlikely that will be happening in your next campaign. You're welcome to play in mine though.'

[Doktor Per]

This ending has a silver lining. You realized that your DM is a dingus who turns to the passive aggressive to deal with issues. Maybe he's a better player, there's a bunch of you, surely someone else can DM.

Maybe you'd rather not game with him. That's also cool.

But seriously. You should have a cojones to cojones talk with him, set things straight, explain why people are dissatisfied. Do the other players want to keep on gaming with this guy? No gaming is better than bad gaming.

[Cornelius Grim]

Yeah, and the next campaign is 20 years later for now, and the ogre mage that did this to us is about 20th level. Althought to be fair, quite a few of the players in our groups are far from cooperative, but it would've been more productive to ask them to calm down more often. However, it's still an awful things to do. Especially since this is the only character I have ever kept for a decent amount of time, and he knows that. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is bad.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Yeah, and the next campaign is 20 years later for now, and the ogre mage that did this to us is about 20th level. Althought to be fair, quite a few of the players in our groups are far from cooperative, but it would've been more productive to ask them to calm down more often. However, it's still an awful things to do. Especially since this is the only character I have ever kept for a decent amount of time, and he knows that. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is bad.

If people are being uncooperative, set aside the start of a session to work it out as people to get a better feel for the whole of the issue.

[TriForce]

that was just dumb. letting a campaign end becouse the heroes failed and its a total party kill is understandable, letting it end becouse you cant handle the players and therefor just maimed and permanently depowered them is just something a 8 year old would do.

since he didnt bother to talk with you, i wouldnt bother to talk with him, next campaign, tell him to make a character, since he wont be DM-ing anything anytime soon

[Cornelius Grim]

Well, we did talk to him about it, he said it was mainly the powergaming that set him off. It's not that we don't want to game with him anymore, I'm certain he won't do anything this bad due to the negative feedback he got. In fact, several players considered leaving the group, but I'm sure he has it planned out.

[Cornelius Grim]

At our next meeting, I'll get everyone to sit down and talk it out. Thanks for the advice everyone. :smallsmile: I'm sure that this horrible maiming and depowering has a reason, although roleplaying-wise, many characters are depressed. :smallfrown: It's probably not as bad as I'm making it sounds.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Show this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrandTabletopRulesList) to your DM.


Rule 00 - The GM is Always Right: No matter how eloquently the Rules Lawyer states his case for the loophole he's trying to abuse, the GM always has the last word.

Rule 000 - ...But No Players Means No Game: Having the last word doesn't mean the GM can lord it over the players like a tin-pot dictator. Like any other governing body, abuse of power will eventually lead to a coup d'état.


And actually quit if he refuses to change.

[PirateLizard]

so basically he kept it all inside and then /ragequit? gg. :smallconfused:

[Cornelius Grim]

so basically he kept it all inside and then /ragequit? gg. :smallconfused:

Well, he may have had it planned that the campaign end that session, although I am not sure whether he planned to go on an angry hand-taking rage.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Well, we did talk to him about it, he said it was mainly the powergaming that set him off. It's not that we don't want to game with him anymore, I'm certain he won't do anything this bad due to the negative feedback he got. In fact, several players considered leaving the group, but I'm sure he has it planned out.

See, "powergaming" is far, far, far too broad a term. For some groups, a Barbarian with a high strength score and well-used Power Attack feat is "powergaming." For others, a fully decked out buffomancer War Weaver is seen as strong, but not overbearing, instead simply a good team player.

Ask again and make sure you get a very precise answer just so you know the exact issue.

[Rogue Shadows]

Yeah...campaigns should end on a high note. Or on an epic TPK. Not like this. This is just...eh...

[Vladislav]

DM said mainly it was because some of the characters/players got on his nerves, while others power-gamed, so this was his way of getting us to stop.
Obvious DM incompetence is obvious.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

Rule 00 - The GM is Always Right: No matter how eloquently the Rules Lawyer states his case for the loophole he's trying to abuse, the GM always has the last word.

Rule 000 - ...But No Players Means No Game: Having the last word doesn't mean the GM can lord it over the players like a tin-pot dictator. Like any other governing body, abuse of power will eventually lead to a coup d'état.

the DM can still play by themselfs, if they wanted to.


maybe the DM got tried of running the game, and decided to end it.

[The Glyphstone]

How old is this DM? 12?

[Rogue Shadows]

maybe the DM got tried of running the game, and decided to end it.

Ending the game is one thing. I've done that when I've grown tired of running the game.

Ending the game like the OP's GM did? No.

[Gnome Alone]

Sounds ludicrous. I mean, saying, "Hey everybody, the hell with THIS!" is one thing, but so anticlimatically? Guy at least owes you a "Rocks fall, everyone dies."

[Cornelius Grim]

Okay, well, we all talked it over on FaceBook, and he says he felt awful about doing that. He was on this new medication for his frail health or somethin' like that, so he felt awful, and he was under a lot of stress. And to the person who addressed the age of the DM, he's 15. Most people in the group are 15 with the except of 2 12 year old players, one of whom is me. ONe more except is some 20 year old guy. We all got it worked out so there's not much reason to continue to lecture the DM. He is sincerely regretting this.

[DiBastet]

Seriously, get the older one to dm, fella :D


Note: Srsly, it's a good advice.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

dosent mean the older one would be better.

If the DM is having medical problems and is a bit stress from it, having another runing a short story arc until the other person gets better would change the pace and allow the DM to have a rest and relieve some stress.

[Jude_H]

I'd be interested to see whether anyone plays in games DMed by this guy in the future.

I mean, he's probably genuinely sorry and he might be an alright guy, but it sounds like he's showing himself to be pretty petty and obnoxious when things don't go the way he wants.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If the DM is having trouble for some reason and is overly stressed, see if anyone else in the group would mind DMing for a change. Not necessarily the same game, but even one-shots can be a nice breather every now and again.

[NecroRick]

dosent mean the older one would be better.

If the DM is having medical problems and is a bit stress from it, having another runing a short story arc until the other person gets better would change the pace and allow the DM to have a rest and relieve some stress.

This is an excellent suggestion. +1

Set up a rotating schedule of DMs for a while, give everyone a turn. Someone might turn out to be really good at it and you might be pleasantly surprised. Worst case scenario is you all suck at DMing, and you come to appreciate the current DM a little bit more - even that is a bit win win.

Caveats:
When someone becomes DM, their character ceases to exist, otherwise the temptation to "godmode" is likely too much for some. Just pretend they're like Varsuuvius' familiar or something :D
Given that some people may know the rules less than perfectly, make an agreement before each session not to argue about the rules, or to get bogged down in lengthy discussions of rules minutiae. Just let the DM eyeball it, and don't get stressed if they get it 'wrong'.

[begooler]

How old is this DM? 12?

First game I played the DM railroaded a storyline in which the barbarian was accused of theft, tried, acquitted, and then had his hand cut off by the accuser anyway. Rationale: Power attack with two hands is power gaming.

He was twenty something going on thirty.

The way the campaign ended was even more mature.

[Cornelius Grim]

The older guy DM's often in an arena. I think another problem here is that everyone talks too much and gets off topic. The older guy, however, is ruthless in the arena. Good DM, but however he overpowers encounter just enough to only kill 1 or 2 people. Using vile damage was a bit harsh for him though, lol. Anyway, the point is other people have DM'd before, we've all agreed it's just better if he does it. Everyone said they'd be back next week, so I think everyone understand the stress and medical issues the DM had. It's resolving itself.

[Vangor]

Have him do a mulligan. If he really was simply stressed and reacting poorly to medication, he likely had something else planned. Little preparation time and new end to the campaign with a proper climax.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The older guy DM's often in an arena. I think another problem here is that everyone talks too much and gets off topic. The older guy, however, is ruthless in the arena. Good DM, but however he overpowers encounter just enough to only kill 1 or 2 people. Using vile damage was a bit harsh for him though, lol. Anyway, the point is other people have DM'd before, we've all agreed it's just better if he does it. Everyone said they'd be back next week, so I think everyone understand the stress and medical issues the DM had. It's resolving itself.

Even if he is the best DM in your group, it still does not hurt if others learn the trade. DMs are always in short supply while players abound. Even just having someone willing to learn to DM or take his place once a month or so to help with the stress could help a lot for your current, main DM.:smallsmile:

[GoblinArchmage]

Part of the problem may have been the number of people in your group. A nine member party is pretty big.

[Cornelius Grim]

Well, GoblinArchmage, our group noticed that. We tried to split it, but the only one who was willing was.. Well, he's on probation now, he may be asked to leave. Anyway, I'll suggest the DM get a break from DMing once or twice a month to relax. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. :smallsmile:

[Analytica]

Good thing you seem to be working things out. :smallsmile:

However: you should search through this board for any one of a series of posts by a person called Oracle_Hunter about never using in-character solutions to out-of-character problems, as player or DM, and then you should all read it. :smallsmile:

[Doktor Per]

Good to know that it's just hormones. You'll all laugh about this when you've become more stable. :smallsmile:

I second whoever suggested letting Senior DM, even if just for a oneshot to let everyone cool down and just have fun.

[Jarawara]

I like this DM. Just from what little I've heard here, I already like him. I think you should stick with him, and encourage him to DM more.

He's also a bad DM.

So why would I suggest you stick with him? Because he ADMITS to being a bad DM. He's genuinely sorry for what he did, and will probably never do it again. That's a lesson he won't have to learn again. There's an old saying: "How does one learn to be a good DM? By being a bad DM first." Well, this guy is right in the middle of being a bad DM, well on his way to being a good DM. Stick with him, and in a few years you'll have a real gem of a DM there.

I was fortunate to have learned the fine art of DMing from my first DM, a man who shall ever remain nameless (Micheal Long of Marysville, WA). Whenever I am confronted by a situation to which I am unsure how to rule, I just think to myself "How would Micheal Long handle this?" ....And then I do the exact opposite.

Really, he was that bad. In over 30 years of gaming, this method had never failed me. I just don't do what Mike did, and I avoid most mishaps.

But as bad as Mike Long seemed to be, he was actually far worse than that.... because he never once admitted he was in error. If he decided in spite to hang your character up on the city gates so that you're ripped in half when they gates are opened in the morning, well, that's just 'good roleplay' on his part. If he fizzles your spells, undoes your strategies, and all his NPC's just magically know what you're trying to do and have immunities to your abilities, that's just 'good challenges' for the players. The players must like it, because, that's the player's job: To like whatever they're given!

Trust me, your DM is already miles ahead of my old DM. Your DM figured out that the DM's job is to make a game the players like, and they didn't like the last one. He'll work harder to make the game worthy of the players the next time.

Now I'm not saying he won't make more mistakes. I've been adding to the list of 'things not to do' for 30 years now, and I still come up with original mistakes now and then. He will too. But at least he won't be recycling the same old mistakes over and over again.

So stick with him. It may take awhile before he's a 'good' DM. But he's headed that direction, if you're willing to put up with the learning period. And once he's learned what not to do... that's gem-time for a DM!

*~*~*

I also second the advice of having other's in your group try their hand at DMing. Maybe rotate from DM to DM. Nothing wrong with training some fresh faces, and there is always a shortage of good DM's. You could try take a shot at it. You've already learned a few things to not do from your current DM, so you won't need to learn that lesson the hard way. But don't get cocky. You won't repeat *his* mistakes, but I guarentee you'll invent all new original mistakes for yourself. You'll be a bad DM, and in doing so, you'll learn to be a good DM.

Good luck to you and your whole group.

[AerykVyrion]

Wall o' Text


Wow. Very inspiring post. I've started DMing recently, and have been making a lot of mistakes. It made me feel that I just should give it up. I think I'll keep on going now. :smallsmile:

[The Glyphstone]

Wow. Very inspiring post. I've started DMing recently, and have been making a lot of mistakes. It made me feel that I just should give it up. I think I'll keep on going now. :smallsmile:

Indeed, it's always comforting to know someone out there is worse than you are.

[Cornelius Grim]

Wow, Jarawara, that makes me feel a lot better. Thanks for taking the time to do that. I'll suggest we take turns DM'ing occasionally. Thanks guys, I'm pretty sure Jarawara won the thread. :smallsmile:

[Andorax]

I'm going to go contrary to the popular opinion here and NOT suggest that the DM take time off or quit DMing. That's a serious blow to the ego, to get booted from the 'big chair' for blowing it, even blowing it spectacularly as he did.

Adults can handle that sort of rejection...a 15-year old? That's awfully harsh.


Here's my two suggestions for an alternate way to handle it:

1) Assistant DM. A 9-player group is nearly unmanagable. Instead of splitting, though, bring one of the other older (15) players on-board as an assistant-DM, co-DM, whatever. It has to be someone the DM has regular access to so they can plot, plan, conspire, and work together. ADM can run NPCs (makes a multiple-NPC discussion more interesting), help track initiative counts and more complex battles' situations, and just generally make life with a HUGE party much, much easier.

Heck, it's even possible to split the group without half the players taking a nap.


2) Get Him Here! Boot your DM in the hind end and get HIM posting on this forum about his insane powergaming group of 12-15 year olds that are driving him nuts. Then he can actually get advice ahead of time that forestalls mistakes like what took place that night. We'll help make him a better DM, everyone wins.

[DiBastet]

Jarawara is full of win and awesome. Congratulations. Seriously, that's really mature. Just made some cupcakes, here's one for you.