Is There a Way to Make Truenamming Decent?

[TheRinni]

It ensaddens me that the Truenammer class sucks so badly, and scales/levels so poorly. Does anyone know of a way to make them, if not good, than at least decent? I'd play the class mostly for the fluff anyways, but I wouldn't want them to be completely useless.

[Lord Ruby34]

Check the homebrew forums, they have some truenamer fixes there. Or look at Zaq's signature it has a link to his experiences playing the class.

[Psyren]

I recommend Kyeudo's fix. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176665) It's the smallest departure from the class as presented in ToM and fixes just about all of its issues.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I read through the guide in Zaq's signature on a whim (knowing not much of Truenamers other than that everyone hates them and that I've just generally avoided Tome of Magic since the dawn of time), and probably the most useful thing I could tell you without directing you to the guide itself is that Truenamers seem to be most effective between levels 8 and 13, 8 being the level (I think) where you get to Quicken all your truenaming abilities on a whim and 13 being the level where keeping up with the skill check goes beyond exhausting obvious resources and starts sacrificing in other elements (useful gear slots/heavy wealth investments and the like).

[Jude_H]

Kellus's Truenaming Overhaul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961) is really spiffy. A printout of its pdf was what brought me to this forum in the first place. It kind of works psions, warlocks and power word spells into one delicious lexicological slurry.

[Lans]

Quick fixes
Changing how it works
Up the duration on some the utility utterances.
Change the formula to either 1.5 or 1X CR+15

No house rules
Item Familiar
Marshal Level
sticking to solid fog and out of combat, healing and calling it good

[Psyren]

Quick fixes
Changing how it works

This is sort of how you fix any broken class :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

Yeah, depends a lot on just how much you want to change. The biggest shot in the arm you can give them with a single sentence is just to say "The Law of Sequence no longer exists." This does not make them good by any stretch, but the Law of Sequence is the single biggest inhibiting factor the class has. If this is your only fix, you still have to go book diving for bonuses (we love you, Paragnostic Assembly!), you still don't have that many good utterances, and you still have to deal with the weirdness and inconsistencies in the chapter, but hey, it's something.

Removing the LoS and making the DCs easier (so that you can make them with just basic optimization instead of with crazy book diving) would probably put them on par with an unoptimized (or at least no more than moderately optimized) Warlock. Very low levels are going to be frustrating, of course, but it's something.

Of course, rewriting the utterances to not suck is really the best thing you can do, but that's a lot of effort.

If you'd like anything more specific, just ask.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

In a word: no.

In more words: Not without making so many mechanical changes that it is no longer recognizable as being derived from the current class with that name.

[Psyren]

In a word: no.

In more words: Not without making so many mechanical changes that it is no longer recognizable as being derived from the current class with that name.

Yet Kyeudo's fix does exactly that. It is undeniably Truenaming, just functional.

The problems of the class are easily identified and corrected - and more importantly, are totally distinct from its flavor - unlike those of the Monk.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yet Kyeudo's fix does exactly that. It is undeniably Truenaming, just functional.

The problems of the class are easily identified and corrected - and more importantly, are totally distinct from its flavor - unlike those of the Monk.

76 page document is not a 'quick fix'... it is tantamount to a 'complete rewrite'

[Psyren]

76 page document is not a 'quick fix'... it is tantamount to a 'complete rewrite'

The OP didn't ask for a "quick fix." It's more than possible to rewrite it while preserving the identity/flavor - which, again, Kyeudo did.

[Divide by Zero]

Get rid of the Law of Sequences, and make all their utterances known at will, and they'd be pretty much on par with a warlock.

Until level 20, of course, but that's gate's fault, not the fix itself.

[Psyren]

Utterances ARE at-will. It's just that the DCs get so ridiculous so quickly that they feel like they're not.

You're right about the Law of Sequence though, which needs to die in a few fires.

[Divide by Zero]

Utterances ARE at-will. It's just that the DCs get so ridiculous so quickly that they feel like they're not.

I meant not even requiring them to make a check for it, or maybe make it a static check. It might mess with the fluff a bit, but it'd hardly be overpowered.

[NecroRick]

Just have the DM turn a blind eye to your crafting an item that grants a +10 luck bonus to Truenaming, an item that grants a +10 profane bonus to Truenaming, an item with +10 insight bonus to Truenaming, and item with +10 "LOOK, OVER THERE! A WATERBUFFALO!" bonus to Truenaming, an item that grants a +10 "It's your birthday" bonus to Truenaming (activated by waving one of your hands in a paddle fashion...)

In Zaq's example he hit something ridiculous like +60 to TN at level 10. And he wasn't even trying hard. It's really not that hard to crank any one particular skill up through the wazoo, and this is a class that gets _much_ better the higher your skill gets.

[Divide by Zero]

It's really not that hard to crank any one particular skill up through the wazoo, and this is a class that gets _much_ better the higher your skill gets.

Eh, not really. Outside of endurance sessions, you shouldn't need to speak a particular utterance more than about half a dozen times per day. At that point, the LoS just sits there giving you the finger and going "Nyaaah, you can only buff one ally at a time!"

[Psyren]

I meant not even requiring them to make a check for it, or maybe make it a static check. It might mess with the fluff a bit, but it'd hardly be overpowered.

I think a feat or class feature that lets you take 10 on Truespeak checks might be handy. But you'd need a feat to allow taking 10 to begin with, then a feat to allow taking 10 in combat or other stressful situations.

[Vulaas]

So...Sounds to me like if you want to use the current class, you need a 1 level dip in Expert, an Item Familiar, creative use of misc. bonus types, and a very permissive DM if you want to make this work.

[NecroRick]

So...Sounds to me like if you want to use the current class, you need a 1 level dip in Expert, an Item Familiar, creative use of misc. bonus types, and a very permissive DM if you want to make this work.

You don't actually need to work all that hard to get a high skill roll.

I find it funny how with anything else and skills the playgrounders are all "up in it's business", breaking out massive bonuses to skills... but then as soon as anyone says the T word they're all wringing their hands and going "skills are so hard to get, oh woe is me!".

Nobody even blinks at the Artificer making a stab at a DC 20 + (3 x 9) = 47 roll. But giant forbid that anyone should try a DC 30 TN roll! :smalleek:

[Aharon]

Another way to make them decent is optimization. With lots of optimization and a very rules lawyerish reading of the rules that's obviously against intent, it even gets rather good:

T_G's Truenamer Guide with additions by me (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8489.0). The stuff by T_G is just PO, though some of it is dated (he wrote his guide before Complete Champions was out and doesn't mention Paragnostic Assembly because of this). I add some of the newer stuff like that, and some rules lawyerish stuff.

[Acanous]

Long story short, Truenaming is decent if what you want to play is a Party Buff bot, or a battlefield manipulator. Target allies, you get a bonus on their truenames if you've known them a while, and since you never run out of naming, you can keep the buffs up all day.

There's also the truename effects that alter the battlefield, which are listed in the class as some of the most powerful for a reason. You have to be crafty, but you can block line of sight/effect, impose rough or impassable terrain, grant cover and consealment... If you've ever played City of Heroes, there's a class called the Controller that does exactly this, and they're the most powerful class in the game.

If you really want to mess with the enemies, though, craft a Ring of Naming +30. That should keep you scaling properly up to level 20.

[Lans]

Just have the DM turn a blind eye to your crafting an item that grants a +10 luck bonus to Truenaming, an item that grants a +10 profane bonus to Truenaming, an item with +10 insight bonus to Truenaming, and item with +10 "LOOK, OVER THERE! A WATERBUFFALO!" bonus to Truenaming, an item that grants a +10 "It's your birthday" bonus to Truenaming (activated by waving one of your hands in a paddle fashion...)
.

I think by RAW an artifacer can do this with the Silver Tongue amulets.

[Aharon]

Or a Truenamer using Rebuild Item on Potion-Tiles of the Artificer Infusion needed to do so :smallbiggrin: