Houserule Check - Feats

[Serpentine]

There's a bunch of feats that are considered decidedly subpar. Could this be alleviated by combining two (or maybe more) into one?
(might be pertinent to note that I houserule that Intimidate and Diplomacy are combined into Persuasion; Listen and Spot into Perception; and Hide and Move Silently into Stealth; and maybe include Open Lock in Disable Device, I'm undecided on that one)

So, for example:

Acrobatic + Athletic =
Physical Aptitude [General]
Benefit
You get a +2 bonus to all Jump, Tumble, Climb and Swim checks.

Negotiator + Persuasive =
Socialite[General]
Benefit
You get a +2 bonus to all Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff and Intimidate checks.
(or, with my houserules, +2 Sense Motive, Bluff and Persuasion)

Stealthy + Self-Sufficient =
Wild Stalker[General]
Benefit
You get a +2 bonus to all Heal, Survival, Hide and Move Silently checks.

What do you think? Could this work? If so, what other combinations of feats could work? Maybe Toughness and Diehard or something like that?

edit: New houserule to be discussed: Any feat that gives a +2 or less bonus to a skill instead doubles the ability modifier to that skill. Any two feats that only gives a bonus to a skill (e.g. Acrobatic and Athletic) can be combined and taken as one feat.

[panaikhan]

Sounds like you are heading for the Pathfinder-styled skills.

[kharmakazy]

Those all sound perfectly fine to me, especially since they don't offer any kind of scaling bonus and are generally considered bad ideas to take since they are mostly useless after a few levels. This makes them a bit more useful. I still wouldn't take them, but they are better.

[Serpentine]

You mean with my skill combining? Yeah, pretty much, except there were a few I didn't really agree with so I pick and choose. Actually, Pathfinder hasn't done this with the feats too, has it?

edit: Hm... What if they were made to scale? Something like, say, twice your ability modifier to those skills, or +1 ever couple of levels, something like that?

[Cog]

Feats are so rare that giving up the chance to take one that gives you entirely new abilities to instead take one that gives you a set of very small numerical bonuses would be a tough decision; I still don't think I'd take any of the listed examples. Having them scale, having them make the skills class skills, giving you new uses for the skills - that would make the difference. Alternatively, +2 to all skills that use a certain ability score might start to become appealing.

[mootoall]

Problem: The feats are still subpar. My diplomacy focused bard would probably still never take Socialite, because a +2 bonus is just not worth it, even if it's to a few skills. I'd maybe take "Skillful: You get +2 to all skills." Edit: Ninja'd so hard. That's what I get for being distracted while writing :smallyuk:

[Serpentine]

What if, as I suggested above, it's instead double your ability modifier to each of those skills, or +2 every 3rd level?

[mootoall]

I could dig double ability scores to the skills. That's another significant boost, and one that also feels interactive.

[Heatwizard]

Maybe if you included 'once per day you can reroll an x check before you find out the result' in all of them, where X is the the boosted skills? I doubt it'd shatter the game, but then I am not a balance expert.

[Serpentine]

Okay, so, as a houserule: Any feat that gives a +2 or less bonus to a skill instead doubles the ability modifier to that skill. Any two feats that only gives a bonus to a skill (e.g. Acrobatic and Athletic) can be combined and taken as one feat.
How's that sound?

[panaikhan]

You could let the Feat give a 'synergy' style bonus - that is, an extra +2 for every 5 ranks in the skill.

[Serpentine]

Damn, that works too... Can I get some opinions on which would be the best way to do it?

[Cog]

The double-stat would be more optimization friendly, but it also narrows the benefit of the feat to those who are focused on the matching stat as well. The synergy-style bonus benefits anybody who invests in the ranks, so a non-Strength-focused Rogue can still be an excellent swimmer and jumper, for example.

[kharmakazy]

Okay, so, as a houserule: Any feat that gives a +2 or less bonus to a skill instead doubles the ability modifier to that skill. Any two feats that only gives a bonus to a skill (e.g. Acrobatic and Athletic) can be combined and taken as one feat.
How's that sound?

problem with this, is that now people without a relevant ability modifier can no longer benefit from this feat at all. Double my 0 cha modifier is 0.

[Serpentine]

My Boy likes the ability modifier version better...
What if I gave a choice? Double the ability modifier, OR +2 every 5 ranks? + two of those feats being taken as one. One wouldn't be so much better it'd always be chosen, would it?

@^ I did consider that. I figured that either they just wouldn't take it in that case, or I would make it minimum of +1, negating any ability mod penalty and keeping a little bonus.

[Telonius]

There are a couple skills where I could see "double ability score" being a potential problem. Jump, in combinations with some Warblade shenanigans; though this is more of a problem with Warblade than it is with the feat. Use Magic Device could get kind of silly (earlier access to items and/or scribing), as could Escape Artist (Rogues might end up basically immune to Grapple) and Tumble (less of a "skill point tax" to get the check up to 15).

Any player suggesting use of this kind of feat with Iajutsu Focus should be fed to a Grue.

[Serpentine]

Okay, so there is some potential for abuse. Are any of those likely to be exploited excessively by accident? I'm fortunate in that I rarely have players likely to do so deliberately, and the ones that do don't tend to fit well with my groups anyway.

[Cog]

I'd go with giving the choice.

As for the Tiger Claw thing, as I recall, Jump never goes directly into calculations - it's just that if you make a check, usually against AC IIRC, you trigger an extra ability. Given all the ways of boosting jump checks already, I don't see much danger here.

[BlueInc]

You could let the Feat give a 'synergy' style bonus - that is, an extra +2 for every 5 ranks in the skill.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/persuasive---final


Persuasive
You are skilled at swaying attitudes and intimidating others into your way of thinking.

Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Intimidate skill checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill.

That's the way Pathfinder does it.

[Serpentine]

Here's what I've got in my houserules now:

Two feats that each only give a bonus to one or more skills can be taken as one feat.
Where a feat grants a bonus to a skill, it instead allows the application of double the relevant ability modifier to that skill to a minimum of +1 (e.g. +4 to Tumble instead of +2 for a Dex of 14) OR it grants that bonus every 5 ranks of the skill (e.g. +2 to Tumble for every 5 ranks).

[mootoall]

And remember, there is no feat like this that gives a bonus to Iajutsu Focus. That's what skill focus is for.

[Serpentine]

So it's approved? I remembered to add a note that you get the +2 upon taking the feat, as well. Or should I not have? Spoot.