DMing advice...

[AerykVyrion]

I'm running an evil campaign. It is my first time DMing, but I know quite a bit about the game in general. My issue is that I'm running it as sandbox, and one of the players (we'll call him Adam) will constantly put his character in "auto" mode.

For example, I drop the (lvl 5) players off in the largest city in this world, expecting them to go shopping or something (they have a lot of gold, but no magic items yet). They even meet up with a new player, who's a warforged artificer, and can therefore custom-make almost anything they want. Instead, Adam goes to the closest general store (alone, while the other two players are RPing meeting each other, and trying to get the artificer to join the group) and tells me, "Is there anything I'd be interested in?" I answer that this particular shop has lots of assorted mundane items, and he's just like, "Oh, ok. I go back to the inn, unless something happens." The next day, he goes to the port and books a ship out of town. Slightly frustrated, I tell him the next one that goes to anywhere of importance won't leave for a month. He again says "Ok, I go back to the Inn, and meditate for a month." I asked him, "You're in the biggest city in the world, are you sure there's nothing you want to do?" Again, he says "Not unless anything happens." Once he finally gets on the boat, I tell him it'll be a month trip, and he pulls the same thing: Meditate unless something happens.

The kicker is that they knew ahead of time that this would be sandbox and what that meant. They also were the ones who wanted it to be an evil campaign, and I even had them specify whether it'd be a "The world is an evil place" or "The world is good and ripe for the picking" kind of evil, and they picked the latter. Also, Adam had asked me out of game to have less combat, because up until that point combat was 95% of the game. The way he says "until something happens" seems to have an undertone of "I'm bored, it's your job to fix it." Now, I have no problem coming up with things to happen, but I'm not going to literally drop them in his lap, he has to at least try first.
Granted, part of the problem is that the other players just follow Adam around and don't do anything besides profession checks, so they're not helping the situation.

So my question is, How do I get them all (especially Adam) to be more proactive, or self-reliant? And, am I doing something wrong here?

P.S.:I plan on doing something for the boat trip, but I know that this problem is going to keep reappearing.

[kharmakazy]

Sounds like your players are not really ready for a sandbox type game. They have to have some kind of internal motivation for that kind of thing to pan out. It's probably just best to throw subtle things at them and see if they bite the plot hook. If so, reel them in. If not, rethink your sandbox idea entirely.

[graeylin]

have encounters for those out and about the town, and subsequent EXP for those encounters.

pretty soon, Adam will be a level behind everyone else, because he is playing a cloistered X, instead of an active X.

[Andorax]

I'm with kharmakazy...it sounds like sandbox isn't what they're after. Eberron campaign setting is known for the "and then someone kicks the door down" spontaneous action scenes, so I think it's time to start throwing some of them at the party.

Another approach is to start generating possible plot hooks...even vague plot hooks that aren't even fully developed...and see if anything sticks. Try and make them open-ended enough that the players can fill in some of the blanks, it's a creativity starter.

A third idea would be an in-depth PC history, background and personality profile. There's dozens of examples online. Find out what makes each one of them tick, but more importantly, make the PLAYERS think about what makes their characters tick. That's crucial to a successful sandbox, otherwise they're a floating set of stats on a piece of paper, waiting for an encounter.

[AerykVyrion]

Sounds like your players are not really ready for a sandbox type game. They have to have some kind of internal motivation for that kind of thing to pan out. It's probably just best to throw subtle things at them and see if they bite the plot hook. If so, reel them in. If not, rethink your sandbox idea entirely.

It seems that way to me too, but the issue is that I only agreed to run it if it was a sandbox game. I'm not good at making a plot that ties things together, and don't want to spend the prep time on one either. I'm fine with assorted encounters that have no real connection to each other, or even the players latching on to something and kind of making a plot happen by their actions.


have encounters for those out and about the town, and subsequent EXP for those encounters.

pretty soon, Adam will be a level behind everyone else, because he is playing a cloistered X, instead of an active X.

Ah, good idea, I shall try it.

[Sillycomic]

The kicker is that they knew ahead of time that this would be sandbox and what that meant.

I don't think Adam knows what this means. Perhaps you should remind him. I would sit everyone down and explain that this campaign will not be like other campaigns they have played in the past.

It is an evil sandbox game, which means they are going to be doing most of the work for this game, not you. They need to come up with evil ideas and schemes in which to get money, power and magical lewts which are floating around in the world waiting to be picked up. As the GM, your job is just to set up the world so those ideas can happen, and then put up any logical roadblocks that would come up.

I would sit the entire group down and explain that to them. They aren't chasing after a bigger bad guy, or waiting for the world to be swept up in some sort of disaster in order for them to fix. The world is at peace, everything will be normal.

Tell Adam that nothing will ever happen until he makes it happen.

Also, as a GM, I would ask for detailed backgrounds from everyone. Ask them what their character's goals and aspirations are. Each character should have a reason for being evil, and travelling around. This way, as a GM, if you know these things you can throw plot hooks their way.

If Adam happens to take a liking to kidnapping, then tell him during his month of meditating there is grand news of a princess from a neighboring country coming to the city for a visit. This is just enough of a plot hook to get him interested and... BOOM, he starts role playing.

If that doesn't work, then I would just say that evil sandbox style gaming is not for them. Have them roll up some good guys and go dungeon diving for lewts instead.

[kharmakazy]

It seems that way to me too, but the issue is that I only agreed to run it if it was a sandbox game. I'm not good at making a plot that ties things together, and don't want to spend the prep time on one either. I'm fine with assorted encounters that have no real connection to each other, or even the players latching on to something and kind of making a plot happen by their actions.



Ah, good idea, I shall try it.

What I like to do... is write out little incident cards on index cards. Basically just some little thing that happens. Oftentimes wacky in nature like from fallout1/2, but that's me. Whenever the party is in a place that seems suitable for said incident, it happens. I never really bother with an overarching plot.

[AerykVyrion]

By the way, it's not Eberron, its a homebrew world with a "anything, but ask me first" list of books. I allowed warforged and artificer because teh are awesomes.

As for the player's backgrounds, it's that they were both "adopted" by a master who taught them psionics (Adam is a psion, the other is a psychic warrior), but only the bare minimum. The rest of the time he treated them like slaves. The campaign began with their master getting assassinated, and now they are free to explore the world, etc.

The artificer has no real backstory yet, but his motivation is purely to gain power and money no matter what it takes.

[kharmakazy]

"I head back to the room and meditate for a month unless something happens."

Make a spot check

On your way back to the room, you notice an elegantly crafted flyer decreeing an upcoming event. It seems the royal family of a neighboring nation is touring with an exhibition of the crown jewels. They will be stopping here for one night only next week and putting on a grand show of it, with a gala leading up to the unveiling.

Do you have anything in knowledge royalty? No? Give me knowledge Arcana with a -5 penalty...

You seem to recall a rumor that these jewels, the crown and scepter most notably, held some manner of powerful enchantment.

------------------
He can just go back to the room and meditate... but if he is evil and/or greedy... he is going to try and take those jewels.

[Sillycomic]

Their master was assasinated?

Why aren't they going after the the assasins? That to me is a huge plot hook. It could be a series of plot hooks, they could have to take down an entire cult, or a church temple or some king or royal advisor, having to leave a wake of blood miles wide in order to get revenge they so sorely seek.

Their master is assasinated and they just wanna herp de derp around on boat rides?

...

Something's not right here.

[AerykVyrion]

Sillycomic, I agree. The story behind the assassination is that there is a powerful mercenary/thieves guild that hunts down psionic-users to make them join. If they don't join, the guild tries to get rid of them. The players' master had kept away from them for about 2 decades, but they finally ambushed him. All the assassins who killed the master, however, were killed in a final blow by him, so the guild doesn't know about them being users as well (at least not yet.)
The guild wants psionic-users specifically because
1) they are quick and stealthy, and
2) magic-users are the nobility in the world, so they have no desire to do anything 'underground'. They also have strong magic defenses that need some type of caster to get around.
I've given them a couple hooks to get them to either try to fight the guild, or even join it. They seem to be uninterested.

Also, Adam can't stop talking out-of-game about wanting to take over the world. But he never tries anything to even begin to do so. He told me after this last session that he left the city because he wasn't powerful enough to take it over. :smallsigh:

[kharmakazy]

He told me after this last session that he left the city because he wasn't powerful enough to take it over. :smallsigh:

That is kind of a valid point tho. I've had DMs get wriled up because we didn't follow some task they had intended, but sometimes players perceive their odds of success at a task to be much less than the DM does.

An evil person would try and take over the world... sure. But if he thinks 4 cityguards will take him down before he manages to take over a bakery he may just bide his time and try and gain power or at least percieved power before attempting such things.

[Sillycomic]

Wow, that is actually a brilliant story about the assasins. It opens up nearly endless possibilities, at least a very good start for characters to have some fun, define themselves and get lots of lewts.

If your players throw away plothooks like that, I'm really not sure what to tell you. I would be a little frustrated if I came up with that much planning and had it tossed aside.

Meh, it's a sandbox though. Sometimes plot hooks fall by the wayside. The good news is you can have that particular guild rise in power and eventually start trying to attack/kill the PC's.

At the moment, Adam seems like he wants to take something over. So, ask him what he wants to take over. A small town, a berg? A bakery? He's on a boat (don't you ever forget!) so drop him off somewhere that he feels comfortable taking things over. And go from there.

[AerykVyrion]

Thanks a lot for all the help you've all given me so far. It has given me a few ideas.

The town they are heading to next is mostly just a port. It lies right between the largest and second largest cities in the world, on the edge of an island that is roughly the size of Ireland. The town is mostly lawless, run by merchants who are basically pirates under a different name. The rest of the island is harsh grass land, and uninhabited. It'll be scattered with ruins so they'll be able to do some classic dungeon crawls, since they haven't been able to do that yet.

I was going to make it one the larger towns in the world, but maybe I can make it smaller to facilitate an easier takeover. Or throw a smaller town farther back in the island, where he can start as a base of operations. Or possibly have a castle or keep somewhere nearby which is completely abandoned, so they can just take it for themselves.

Thoughts?

P.S.: Any assistance on working out the details of the town (specifically the minutia of the "government') would be greatly appreciated.

[kharmakazy]

next time they are fighting mooks, have some of them surrender and swear fealty to the party. Nothing gets a bad guy set in motion better than some disposable minions.

[RedWarrior0]

A freak storm, perhaps, to take them to an island of stereotypical cannibals, that end up worshipping them after an incident.

[Sillycomic]

I like that. If they want something smaller, then by all means accomadate them.

I like the idea of a small town being run by 2 brothers. One is a good and true person, and the other brother not so much. We'll just call them Cain and Abel, you know... for example.

Cain is more than willing to help the PC's take over the town to turn it into a resource for their world building plans. They simply need to kill his brother and the elite guards in town.

I don't know if they're interested in political role playing at all, but depending on if they are, this could be filled with lots of random fighting, or more subtle political intrigue.

Either way, they have some fun to do.

[Knaight]

In regards to a setting, paint in broad strokes that allow your players to add stuff, and allow objects that would reasonably be around to be incorporated into player actions. The following game sample:
Player: I grab a pot of soup from a nearby stand and hurl it at the pursuers before running.
Gm: Roll Dexterity to flee with a +4 bonus.
is better than this:
Player: Are there any stands nearby?
GM: Yes
Player: Do any have a big pot of soup.
GM: Yes
Player: Alright then, I throw it at the guards chasing me.
GM: Roll Dexterity to flee with a +4 bonus.

It speeds things up heavily, enhances player options and player influence, and in general produces a superior setting aesthetic.

[Valdor]

At the moment, Adam seems like he wants to take something over. So, ask him what he wants to take over. A small town, a berg? A bakery? He's on a boat (don't you ever forget!) so drop him off somewhere that he feels comfortable taking things over. And go from there.

I kinda figured this would be obvious.... He is on a boat, that is the perfect place to start taking things over. Kill Captain, tell rest of crew that they can live as long as they continue to do their job. BAM!, now you have your own personal yacht to take you where you please to continue the take over.

[Sillycomic]

Oh, that's actually kind of smart.

and it makes sense.

Bored player: I want passage, when does the next boat leave.

GM: Uhhh, in a month. It leaves for a small island off...

Bored Player: I don't care where it's going. I pay for the ticket. I meditate for a month unless something important happens.


Wow. Yeah. Get ready for a mutiny on that boat.

(And a nautical themed Pashmina afghan)

[BenInHB]

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
We pillage plunder, we rifle and loot.
Drink up me hearties, yo ho.
We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot.
Drink up me hearties, yo ho.

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me.
We extort and pilfer, we filch and sack.
Drink up me hearties, yo ho.
Maraud and embezzle and even highjack.
Drink up me hearties, yo ho.

[Sylivin]

Remember there's a few ways of gaining power. The typical evil warlord has an army and rules by tyranny. The evil mastermind rules from the shadows and uses money and political influence to stage events to his liking. The evil warrior is a lone, crazy badass that no one in their right mind would ever cross (including the mastermind or warlord.. well, without his army anyway).

Because this is a sandbox game played by a group it can get bogged down. In a real sandbox game the group would probably break up to gain power in their own ways. There is typically not enough time in a gaming session for that so a lot is done together. Ways to tailor that...

Step 1 - Base) They need a (eeevil) lair. An abandoned castle run by goblins is a pretty easy way to do it. They have a hideout, a place to fix up, and if they are moderately intelligent, they also intimidate the goblins into working for them and they get to still live / guard / slave away in the keep. Small towns or anything else out of the way works just fine.

Step 2 - Minions) Kicking babies and stealing candy from old women? Sure, that seems kinda evil, but nothing spells evil like having minions. These are people / monsters / etc that you can send out on errands and if they succeed.. great.. if they die? Well, more where that came from. Once they get to enjoy ordering minions around they'll want more and there are more plot hooks. "What's this, the captain of the guard is known to be corrupt and working for the thieves guild? We can kill him off if needed.. or maybe we can get him to work for us instead.."

Step 3 - Infamy) People are whispering about the characters now. This is the third time this month that a hamlet vanished near the old abandoned castle in the hinterlands. Wait.. what's this? That's right, a band of good adventurers have come to root out the cause of these evil happenings.

Step 4 - Nemesis) I personally prefer an evil nemesis - someone who's toe's the party has stepped on, or maybe he's just wants to cut down some whippersnappers that are getting uppity. Either way, he hates the party and his own minions are going to get up in their business. Alternatives are good adventurers that they've wronged, a high end law official that can not be corrupted, a head of an order of paladins.. etc. Leave royalty and the like out of it. Your evil dudes are still too nickel and dime for that.

and finally...

Step 5 - Power) Real power. Politics and money. This is the stuff that shakes kingdoms (or runs them). Remember though that every character should have their goal. What is the purpose of getting power? To get more power? That's a classic evil pit with no end. Lichdom, immortality, one's own kingdom.. whatever. In the end they need a goal to achieve before any of this will come together.