Tips for an Awakened Mount (3.5)

[Qwertystop]

I'm thinking of building an Awakened (some type of ride-able animal) for an upcoming game. The DM has ruled that feats specifically affecting mounted combat can be taken by an awakened mount, in which case the rider gets the benefit of them while riding that mount. With this in mind, what animal would be a good idea, and what class, feats, and items would be good? Gloves are valid if the forelimbs of the creature have toes, and items requiring manipulation will not be valid under normal circumstances. Weapons that would be used by the rider are valid. Feats that do not affect mounted combat are fine too, but the emphasis would be on building the perfect all-purpose mount.

ECL 8.

[Qwertystop]

Changed the title to hopefully get more people.

[Ursus the Grim]

What are the restrictions on said mount? Effective level, CR, anything? Is this a mount as a special feature or is this a mount as a result of Leadership?

[Qwertystop]

What are the restrictions on said mount? Effective level, CR, anything? Is this a mount as a special feature or is this a mount as a result of Leadership?

This mount is a character in his own right. ECL 8.

[Ursus the Grim]

This mount is a character in his own right. ECL 8.

Okay. Do you have an idea of how your DM is going to calculate its ECL? Most animals and such don't have a listed LA and some DMs would just use their racial HD as their ECL. I have a few ideas but I don't want to offer something that's right out.

[Qwertystop]

Okay. Do you have an idea of how your DM is going to calculate its ECL? Most animals and such don't have a listed LA and some DMs would just use their racial HD as their ECL. I have a few ideas but I don't want to offer something that's right out.

Yeah, just the hit dice. Maybe even take one hit die off if the base animal is too gimped by the size, shape, etc. so there will be another class level to compensate for it.

[Ursus the Grim]

Yeah, just the hit dice. Maybe even take one hit die off if the base animal is too gimped by the size, shape, etc. so there will be another class level to compensate for it.

Okay. My first thought was Rhinocerous, with 1 level Barbarian if you can convince your DM that being Large is a disadvantage but being Awakened actually hurts you by jumping HD up to 10.

I think we can take a few pages from ubercharger here.

An Awakened Deinonychus.
+8 Str, +4 Dex, +8 Con
6 HD
Talons at 2d6
Foreclaws at d3
Bite at 2d4
Recommended Feats
BaB +4 Saves at 5/5/2
1 Power Attack
3 Improved Bull Rush
6 Shock Trooper to make sure you hit with your power attacks.
9 if you get it you can take Multiattack to improve your chances of hitting with secondary attacks, or Improved Natural Attack to take your Talons up to 3d6 damage.
Pounce, Low-light Vision, Scent.

As for gear? 27000 total, assuming a cap of 1/4 per item.
Amulet of Mighty Fists (+1) Gives a bonus to all your natural attacks. 6000 gp
Gauntlets of Ogre Power over the foreclaws for +2 to Str. 4000 gp
+1 Mithral Chain Shirt Barding for 5400. You could afford to keep it standard chain shirt and bump the enhancement bonus up one and save 400 gp.
Circlet of the Mage. As hand of the mage, but adjusted at cost to not conflict with your amulet. 1350 gp.
Footwraps of Striding and Springing. Again, adjusted for your character. 5500 gp.
Rhino Hide Barding. You'll take a hit to speed, but deal an extra 2d6 damage on each successful attack made with your charge. 5650 gp.

You've still got approximately 5000 gp but the unusual body type could make certain items unusable.

I would put those 2 or 3 levels into Barbarian, personally. Pick up acrobatic skills and you could double as a trapspringer. This build would be especially effective with a mounted charger player character, but with your speed you could easily just keep the squishies out of harm's way. Is it the most optimized build? No. But I think it would work to get the job done.

Expected Statistics
Assuming 15/13/14 for physical scores, 11 for Intelligence, and 12/10 for the rest of the mentals upon creation.

Adjusted scores after buff to Charisma from Awaken,racial adjustments, and one point for leveling to 8.
24/17/22/11/14/12

On a charge using shock trooper and Power Attack (for 7), you'd look something like this. I say something because my math may be off.
2 Talons +18 (5d6+15) plus 2 Foreclaws +13 (2d6+d3+11) plus Bite +13 (2d6+2d4+11)
AC -9

Recommended AC for a CR 8 creature is 21. You have a 90% chance to hit with your talons and 65% chance to hit with your secondaries. Should you hit with all of them, you average 125.5 damage with that charge. Maximum of 173 damage. Fun fact. A Dire Tiger, a CR 8 melee beastie if I ever saw one, has on average 120 hp. Of course, raging if you're a barbarian will further increase your effectiveness. Attacks go to a 95% chance and a 75% chance to hit respectively and increases your damage by up by 7 points each round, methinks.

This is starting to look nastier than I thought. I might not allow this in one of my sessions. Granted, I'm sure someone can do better. Or worse, as the case may be.

Now, how is this an "All-purpose" mount?
Most mount-related characters utilize charges, or at least a melee build.
Even assuming the charge fails, a rider with Mounted Combat can cover your terrible AC with a ride check.
You will have, on average, 107 hp to survive with if things go south.
You will move 70 feet each round. You can charge at an enemy 140 feet away or keep the blaster Wizard safely out of range.
Given the example above, you have +6 to Hide, +23 to Jump, +6 to Swim, and +10 to Listen, Spot, and Survival BEFORE assigning ranks.
If you want to play it cautious, your AC is normally a respectable 22. Of course, if you want to play it really cautious, they can't get near you.
You don't require someone to open doors for you.
You can haul quite a bit of weight and can move less agile characters with ease.
You eat faces.

[King Atticus]

By the letter of the spell this can't happen.


Awaken: Transmutation
Level:Drd 5
Components:V, S, DF, XP
Casting Time:24 hours
Range:Touch
Target:Animal or tree touched
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw:Will negates
Spell Resistance:Yes

You awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal’s current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened).

The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it.

An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human’s.

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.

An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any).

XP Cost

250 XP.

(Emphasis Mine)

But good-on-ya if your DM is going to let you do it.

[NeoSeraphi]

By the letter of the spell this can't happen.


(Emphasis Mine)

But good-on-ya if your DM is going to let you do it.

Checked the OP. Checked it again. Nowhere does he say that he's playing a class that grants the special mount, animal companion or familiar class features. And nowhere in the awaken spell does it say you can't ride an awakened animal.

[King Atticus]

Checked the OP. Checked it again. Nowhere does he say that he's playing a class that grants the special mount, animal companion or familiar class features. And nowhere in the awaken spell does it say you can't ride an awakened animal.

Looks like you're correct. I personally equate special mount with mount but there very well may be a distinction I don't know of. Wasn't trying to step on any toes :smallsmile:

[Ursus the Grim]

Looks like you're correct. I personally equate special mount with mount but there very well may be a distinction I don't know of. Wasn't trying to step on any toes :smallsmile:

I nearly got caught up by that too, and that part of Awaken is the only reason I didn't just refer him to Supermount. I am, however interested in how they're handling ability scores. If he puts the dump stat into Intelligence, I think he could replace it. Or he could get a 3.

On a tangent, I had a dream where several people posted, so the first thing I did upon waking up in the middle of the night was to check. I have got to quit late-night forum visits. :smalleek:

[Coidzor]

Fanged Ring (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0)(Dragon Magic 101) or an exotic weapon that you put the Mouthpick Weapon(Lords of Madness) property on so you can eventually get iterative attacks. + Either Amulet of Mighty Fists or Necklace of Natural Attacks as has already been mentioned, I think.

Totemist levels or Incarnum feats are a good way to add on even more natural attacks, and what attacks you add on in particular are dependent upon the base form of the animal you go with and its extant natural weapons.

Combining Totemist and Barbarian and going Totem Rager is always fun, of course.

edit: Drakkensteeds and Phynxikin are dragonblooded animals that would be eligible for dragon tail or dragon wings as well, which would add another 1.5 str natural weapon(IIRC) or be the first of two feats for natural flight

Hmm... Awakened Drakkensteed Totemist with its hooves, a bite, a dragon-tail gifted tail attack, and then lamia belt + girallon arms claw attacks....... My brain is contorting in the oddest way right now.

[NeoSeraphi]

+1000 for Totemist mounts. Seriously. This should be a thing. Why is this not a thing yet? Coidzor you're a genius.

[Coidzor]

+1000 for Totemist mounts. Seriously. This should be a thing. Why is this not a thing yet? Coidzor you're a genius.

Well, thank you, but I can hardly take credit for thinking it up. Can't recall where I first saw the suggestion, but I believe it was mentioned around the same context as animal companions taking Improved Unarmed Strike since there's no minimum INT to get the feats...

[Qwertystop]

Wow...
This is going in a very different direction than I had thought. Somehow I was thinking of an Awakened Warhorse or something with Saddlebags of Holding containing various enchanted lances, and getting Mounted Combat feats and Skill Focus: Ride (all of which would apply to the rider) so that anyone could ride it. I was hoping that levels in Totemist would be mentioned though, just because it fits the whole "awakened animal" theme.

[Ursus the Grim]

Wow...
This is going in a very different direction than I had thought. Somehow I was thinking of an Awakened Warhorse or something with Saddlebags of Holding containing various enchanted lances, and getting Mounted Combat feats and Skill Focus: Ride (all of which would apply to the rider) so that anyone could ride it. I was hoping that levels in Totemist would be mentioned though, just because it fits the whole "awakened animal" theme.

Oh. Okay. If you want to be reasonable about the whole thing. :smallsmile:

[Qwertystop]

Oh. Okay. If you want to be reasonable about the whole thing. :smallsmile:

No, your way works too, it was just unexpected. Actually, I think it's better. Anyone have tips for mixing Totemist into that Deinonychus build?

[Ursus the Grim]

No, your way works too, it was just unexpected. Actually, I think it's better. Anyone have tips for mixing Totemist into that Deinonychus build?

Admittedly, that's one book I haven't delved into. You could definitely still use the pounce ability and the Rhino Hide to stack crazy damage in, but I don't know the mechanics of the totemist. You may, however, want to use a lower HD alternative to get better soulmelds. The fleshraker dinosaur from MMIII comes to mind. 4 HD as opposed to 6 HD.

Again, though, I don't know as much about the totemist as some others.

[Qwertystop]

Admittedly, that's one book I haven't delved into. You could definitely still use the pounce ability and the Rhino Hide to stack crazy damage in, but I don't know the mechanics of the totemist. You may, however, want to use a lower HD alternative to get better soulmelds. The fleshraker dinosaur from MMIII comes to mind. 4 HD as opposed to 6 HD.

Again, though, I don't know as much about the totemist as some others.

If I'm reading it right, either one has 4 HD + 2 from Awaken.

[NeoSeraphi]

2 Levels of Totemist grants you access to the powerful Totem chakra anyway, so starting with 2 levels of Totemist should be plenty. Give your dino four extra arms with Girallon Arms and ask your DM if its rake ability applies to those arms as well. (even if they don't, bonuses to grapple helps your Fleshraker and it's four extra natural attacks)

[Coidzor]

Wow...
This is going in a very different direction than I had thought. Somehow I was thinking of an Awakened Warhorse or something with Saddlebags of Holding containing various enchanted lances, and getting Mounted Combat feats and Skill Focus: Ride (all of which would apply to the rider) so that anyone could ride it. I was hoping that levels in Totemist would be mentioned though, just because it fits the whole "awakened animal" theme.

Don't spend feats on Mounted Combat, you can just give all of that to the rider with riding boots/battle bridle and a lance of Faerun. There's some form of horseshoes that would be nice for a equine form though, though I can't recall the name I believe that they're slightly discounted permanent flight and some good stat buffs rolled into one package.

Leap Attack/Battle Jump is advantageous to you though, since it sounds like both the mount and the rider would be able to take advantage of those feats simultaneously.

You'll want the Tooth of Savnok (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0)if you plan on carrying around a guy in heavy armor though.
Tooth of Savnok (Tome of Magic, 2000 gp) Move at your normal speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Can't seem to find the name of those horseshoes though... I'm thinking it had something to do with wreathing the mount's hooves in flame giving some fire damage to 'em, letting 'em fly, and giving something like +10 enhancement to strength.... Would've sworn I saw it in bunko's originally....

[Qwertystop]

Okay, turns out that when the DM said it would be OK to play an awakened mount, she was thinking more along the lines of "horse" or possibly "riding dog" than "large, spiky, poisonous velociraptor". Anyone got a build that uses a more conventional riding animal?

[Coidzor]

Okay, turns out that when the DM said it would be OK to play an awakened mount, she was thinking more along the lines of "horse" or possibly "riding dog" than "large, spiky, poisonous velociraptor". Anyone got a build that uses a more conventional riding animal?

Smack her with the ECS?

This kind of thing really depends upon the DM being able to be flexible in order to work out in an enjoyable manner, so if she's not willing to play ball, that doesn't really bode well for any other builds we could propose that don't just act as a way to break some other character's WBL.

[Urpriest]

A War Camel (Sandstorm) is better than a Warhorse in almost every way and is unlikely to make your DM give you funny looks.

[Ursus the Grim]

Okay, turns out that when the DM said it would be OK to play an awakened mount, she was thinking more along the lines of "horse" or possibly "riding dog" than "large, spiky, poisonous velociraptor". Anyone got a build that uses a more conventional riding animal?

Heh. Sorry about that. It was a fun process, anyway.

It sounds like she's pretty specifically requesting you to stay mundane with the monster, so I guess a variety of Dire Animals are out. I'm going to assume she'd have an issue with a camel, so I'll brew something up using a Heavy Warhorse. It won't be as fun, but its a challenge.

Edit: Every way I see this working is just a nerfed charger. If you want to go down that road, look at Pounce Barbarian 1 with some Scout levels and Improved Skirmish plus a variant of Rhino Hide armor. I need to mull this over, but I'm sure someone else can work something out.

[Cieyrin]

An Awakened Deinonychus

My suggestion instead of being a trap springer, just pick up the Trapkiller ACF via switching out Trap Sense (you weren't actually using that for anything, were you?) and pounce the pit trap into submission! :smallwink:

[Qwertystop]

It sounds like she's pretty specifically requesting you to stay mundane with the monster, so I guess a variety of Dire Animals are out. I'm going to assume she'd have an issue with a camel, so I'll brew something up using a Heavy Warhorse. It won't be as fun, but its a challenge.

It's not so much "mundane" as "fitting". Why would there be a super-velociraptor in a generic medieval fantasy setting?

[NeoSeraphi]

You could ride an awakened tiger. It would need to wait a level before it got its first level in a PC class, but it's still ECL 8 by itself.

[Urpriest]

It's not so much "mundane" as "fitting". Why would there be a super-velociraptor in a generic medieval fantasy setting?

Why would there be anything else in the PHB? Most generic settings don't have Vancian casting after all. D&D is about playing in D&D settings, not generic medieval fantasy settings.

[Ursus the Grim]

It's not so much "mundane" as "fitting". Why would there be a super-velociraptor in a generic medieval fantasy setting?

Any variety of backgrounds. For instance, a Lizardfolk Druid cast Awaken on her old companion as a reward for years of aid.

Hunters from a foreign land brought strange, terrible lizards to show off. One was no simple brute and escaped.

Really, with a decent backstory, its no more bizarre than what is going to strongly resemble Mr. Ed. Still, guidelines is guidelines. *shrug* I'll see what I can recommend for a horse or dog.

[Qwertystop]

Any variety of backgrounds. For instance, a Lizardfolk Druid cast Awaken on her old companion as a reward for years of aid.

Hunters from a foreign land brought strange, terrible lizards to show off. One was no simple brute and escaped.

Really, with a decent backstory, its no more bizarre than what is going to strongly resemble Mr. Ed. Still, guidelines is guidelines. *shrug* I'll see what I can recommend for a horse or dog.
Yeah, I agree. Maybe it was how I described it, instead of just a "big bipedall lizard" or something.

[Cieyrin]

Any variety of backgrounds. For instance, a Lizardfolk Druid cast Awaken on her old companion as a reward for years of aid.

Hunters from a foreign land brought strange, terrible lizards to show off. One was no simple brute and escaped.

Really, with a decent backstory, its no more bizarre than what is going to strongly resemble Mr. Ed. Still, guidelines is guidelines. *shrug* I'll see what I can recommend for a horse or dog.

No, make an Awakened War Cow! :D Hell, I may do that, let me just pull out a couple books...

[Ursus the Grim]

No, make an Awakened War Cow! :D Hell, I may do that, let me just pull out a couple books...
Naturally, the party would have a dead man's leg and a spellbook filled with Word of Recall.

[Coidzor]

Naturally, the party would have a dead man's leg and a spellbook filled with Word of Recall.

Hmm, now there's a reference sailing clear over my head. heh. :smallamused:

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, now there's a reference sailing clear over my head. heh. :smallamused:

Didn't play any Diablo 2 or hear about the Secret Cow Level, hmm? :smallwink:

[tyckspoon]

Didn't play any Diablo 2 or hear about the Secret Cow Level, hmm? :smallwink:

'War Cow' makes me think Knights of the Dinner Table, actually. Her name was Chelsea.

[Ursus the Grim]

Yeah, I agree. Maybe it was how I described it, instead of just a "big bipedall lizard" or something.

Well, I tried to come up with something cool. My original hope was to use a Light Warhorse with Scout and Dervish levels for hit and run "pounce" attacks with a speed of about 110. But really, Dervish is nearly impossible to qualify for, and skirmish's damage isn't high enough. You could only swing 3 or 4 Scout levels using a light warhorse, which keeps you from grabbing Improved Skirmish. Thus, you're stuck at +1d6, which is meh.

Second idea was a Riding Dog Tiger Claw Warblade 6. But those racial HD mean the initiator level takes a hit and you're missing out on some cool stuff. Plus Riding Dogs are generally only used for small riders.

The third build looked good, until I realized it was essentially the charger build I previously suggested. You can use most of the stuff I pointed out there if you want to. I recommend going with a Light Warhorse as opposed to a heavy. Its a decision between +2 Strength and a stronger bite, and an extra class level and +10 speed. Using a Heavy Warhorse would essentially give you the same Hit Die, base attack, and feats as the Velociraptor charger. It should still be effective, though significantly less impressive, you shouldn't get a book thrown at you.

Plus you get to make fun 'charger' puns.

[Coidzor]

Didn't play any Diablo 2 or hear about the Secret Cow Level, hmm? :smallwink:

The only thing I know is that there is no cow level. :smalltongue:


Oh, yeah, and OP, what size are we wanting to work with here anyway? Because Medium opens up more class level possibilities due to having less HD than Large creatures, generally.

Though a cranky Awakened Mule might be interesting... edit: And is actually worse for this than Light Warhorse. Still a heckuva bargain for warbeasting mules vs. horses though...

A valorous mouthpick weapon would be a good thing for a warhorse though, since it doesn't really lose anything by trading a weak, secondary bite attack for a main weapon that has iterative attacks.

Wolf Totem, Trapsmasher Pouncebarian 1/Totemist 2 on into Totem Rager with girallon arms + lamia belt Might be interesting.

Might be some Fangshields Substitution levels from Champions of Valor that would be of interest here as well...