Wild Shape Ranger + Warshaper + Master of Many Forms

[Crasical]

I don't really believe that this combo hasn't been explored before now, but I'm asking a quick opinion: Since both PRcs are super easy to enter into, what order do you suggest taking them in? I'm thinking taking 2 levels of MoMF to get Large shapes, then taking all of Wildshaper before going back for the last 8 levels of MoMF. But is that really optimal? Should I zerg through MoMF to get to level 7 of it instead?

[Tvtyrant]

I suggest Lion of Talsid actually; you get to add pounce to any form you take. Pouncing giant squid bitte?

Not sure about Warshaper (what book is it?) but you defiantly want Gargantuan Wildshape from Master of Many Forms.

[IthroZada]

I suggest Lion of Talsid actually; you get to add pounce to any form you take. Pouncing giant squid bitte?

Not sure about Warshaper (what book is it?) but you defiantly want Gargantuan Wildshape from Master of Many Forms.

Complete Warrior. Highlights include increased natural attack damage, increased reach, immunity to critical hits, and +4 bonuses to certain physical ability scores.

[Crasical]

Where's Lion of Talsid from?

Edit: Nevermind, found it. Doesn't look like what I really want, since it's got full caster progression. I'm going into the class from Ranger because I want to be a 'shapeshift and rip things up' character, this requires Natures Ally 2 and a Feat, plus limits me to NG.

[IthroZada]

Where's Lion of Talsid from?

Book of Exalted Deeds. I don't actually have any highlights for it, except that it can apparently add pounce.

[Tvtyrant]

It gives you Immunity to Fear, Exalted Companion, Wildshape up to Large, Pounce as a class feature, a free haste effect turns equal to level, and Leonal's Roar. I like it because of the pounce and exalted companion, the rest is just okay.

Looking at Warshaper it is really good for what your doing as a 5 level Prc.

[Crasical]

Warshaper is also only a 5 level class, and the capstone lets me re-shape to another form as many times as I want during the 5 hour duration of the Wild-shape. Drop in an Extra Wild Shapes feat, and I've got 3 5 hour shapes, giving me 15 hours of being whatever the heck I can shape into. It'll help my utility and longevity more than more levels of MoMF, but 'Use the (ex) abilities of your shaped form' is an amazingly powerful ability....

[Tvtyrant]

You could actually take all of both of them by level 20, since you qualify for both at level 5.

I suggest 3 MoMF, 5 Warshaper, then the rest of MoMF. You get large size shaping and Fast Wild Shape before the other abilities.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wildshape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF 1/ WSRanger or Nature's Warrior 1/ MoMF 2, in that order.

Ranger 5/ MoMF 4 is the absolute minimum level to jump out at, because there you get Cave Troll (MM3) which is the first of your three strongest forms. You'll want Frozen Wild Shape from Frostburn to gain access to Cryohydras, but you need Huge size to use it so Ranger 5/ MoMF 6. At the very next level you get the Hydra's fast healing, the Cave Troll's fast healing, and you get War Troll (MM3) along with its unmatched combat prowess, DR, SR, and Regeneration. Therefore, Ranger 5/ MoMF 7 is what you want as early as possible.

Feat selection with the above build (assuming human) should be Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Alertness, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, (any feat), and Defensive Sweep. That WSRanger or Nature's Warrior 1 level is to get the BAB prerequisite for Defensive Sweep at 18th level. You don't want to trade out the Ranger spellcasting for any ACFs because you'll be preparing Rhino's Rush and even getting 1st level Pearls of Power to cast it more often. Warshaper 5 is typically not worth getting, you can Wild Shape more than enough times/day and that level doesn't improve your BAB or any of your saves, so it's best left until the epic levels when it will advance your epic progressions.

At level 12 you can take the form of a 12-headed Cryohydra, get its Fast Healing 22 and 12-bite AoO, and with Robilar's Gambit you'll get to make 12 bites against anyone who attacks you. Also at level 12 you get War Troll form, and you can destroy opponents with Power Attack and Leap Attack and Rhino's Rush using a big two-handed weapon, and that happens to be your best form for places the Hydra won't fit even at 20th level.

In the lower levels you have Combat Reflexes and Power Attack, so use a Glaive with Armor Spikes. You can Wild Shape into a Fleshraker dinosaur at 5th+, and that's actually going to be one of your better choices until you get Cave Troll at 9th. You'll most likely want to stick to Cave Troll until 12th level, and then switch to War Troll and Cryohydra. Everything after that is just to make those forms better, which is what Warshaper is for. It's not worth taking Warshaper earlier and being stuck with sub-par forms.

[Crasical]

Wildshape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF 1/ WSRanger or Nature's Warrior 1/ MoMF 2, in that order.

Ranger 5/ MoMF 4 is the absolute minimum level to jump out at, because there you get Cave Troll (MM3) which is the first of your three strongest forms. You'll want Frozen Wild Shape from Frostburn to gain access to Cryohydras, but you need Huge size to use it so Ranger 5/ MoMF 6. At the very next level you get the Hydra's fast healing, the Cave Troll's fast healing, and you get War Troll (MM3) along with its unmatched combat prowess, DR, SR, and Regeneration. Therefore, Ranger 5/ MoMF 7 is what you want as early as possible.

Feat selection with the above build (assuming human) should be Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Alertness, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, (any feat), and Defensive Sweep. That WSRanger or Nature's Warrior 1 level is to get the BAB prerequisite for Defensive Sweep at 18th level. You don't want to trade out the Ranger spellcasting for any ACFs because you'll be preparing Rhino's Rush and even getting 1st level Pearls of Power to cast it more often. Warshaper 5 is typically not worth getting, you can Wild Shape more than enough times/day and that level doesn't improve your BAB or any of your saves, so it's best left until the epic levels when it will advance your epic progressions.

At level 12 you can take the form of a 12-headed Cryohydra, get its Fast Healing 22 and 12-bite AoO, and with Robilar's Gambit you'll get to make 12 bites against anyone who attacks you. Also at level 12 you get War Troll form, and you can destroy opponents with Power Attack and Leap Attack and Rhino's Rush using a big two-handed weapon, and that happens to be your best form for places the Hydra won't fit even at 20th level.

In the lower levels you have Combat Reflexes and Power Attack, so use a Glaive with Armor Spikes. You can Wild Shape into a Fleshraker dinosaur at 5th+, and that's actually going to be one of your better choices until you get Cave Troll at 9th. You'll most likely want to stick to Cave Troll until 12th level, and then switch to War Troll and Cryohydra. Everything after that is just to make those forms better, which is what Warshaper is for. It's not worth taking Warshaper earlier and being stuck with sub-par forms.

Okay, wow. That's a little bit more optimization than I'm really comfortable with, actually. :smalleek: Well, I hadn't noticed that MoMF gave me additional uses per day, so that's nice.

[Kaeso]

I'm not sure if this is a bright suggestion (as I'm not an expert when it comes to wild shapes) but taking improved unarmed strike might be a good idea, so you can make primary attacks with it and secondary attacks with your plethora of natural attacks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm not sure if this is a bright suggestion (as I'm not an expert when it comes to wild shapes) but taking improved unarmed strike might be a good idea, so you can make primary attacks with it and secondary attacks with your plethora of natural attacks.

A Monk's Belt does that, but you're right; you can full attack with iterative attacks with your unarmed strikes, then use your full array of natural weapons as secondary attacks.

[Optimator]

Okay, wow. That's a little bit more optimization than I'm really comfortable with, actually. :smalleek: Well, I hadn't noticed that MoMF gave me additional uses per day, so that's nice.

Still though, he's spot on with how to do this type of character. At least use his level progression and consider the listed feats. If it were me I might take the first level of Warshaper early then get level 7 in MoMF. Really, it's a strong enough character that fretting too much about the order isn't necessary.

[MeeposFire]

Plus you can take the stuff mentioned and just not use it unless you need to. For instance the hydra robilars gambit combo can be saved until you fight an opponent so nasty that only this combo can save the day. That way you don't blow the campaign wide open but when needed you can pull out something big.

[Coidzor]

A Monk's Belt does that, but you're right; you can full attack with iterative attacks with your unarmed strikes, then use your full array of natural weapons as secondary attacks.

Fanged Ring + Wilding Clasp would be nice as well, even with that, I think.

[Crasical]

Fanged Ring + Wilding Clasp would be nice as well, even with that, I think.

I'm playing in the WLD with no item crafters, the chances of getting a specific item (especially one like a Wilding Clasp, which isn't core AND is for a class that the Dungeon suggests not be allowed) are almost nil.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I'm playing in the WLD with no item crafters, the chances of getting a specific item (especially one like a Wilding Clasp, which isn't core AND is for a class that the Dungeon suggests not be allowed) are almost nil.If you're item-strapped then you're going to need to utilize the abilities of the various wildshape forms available to MoMF more than you're going to need to increase your stats or your reach, and various forms give you fast healing, so that's a wash.

[Tvtyrant]

In your case the more access feats you take the better; Dragon Wildshape, Aberration Wildshape, Frozen Wildshape, maybe even Exalted Wildshape. Each one gets you a ton of new abilities, which you are going to need in WLD.

[Yanagi]

If you don't mind me asking, what's the origin of the Wildshape Ranger?

I'm interested in using it to be a new PC, but will have to tell the DM what book it comes from.

[Optimator]

Unearthed Arcana or the SRD

[Crasical]

In your case the more access feats you take the better; Dragon Wildshape, Aberration Wildshape, Frozen Wildshape, maybe even Exalted Wildshape. Each one gets you a ton of new abilities, which you are going to need in WLD.

Don't I get the ability to wildshape into Dragons and Aberrations just from progressing in MoMF?

[Tvtyrant]

Don't I get the ability to wildshape into Dragons and Aberrations just from progressing in MoMF?

Your correct; I wasn't thinking. Though the Dragon Wildshape from the Dracomonicon gives you SUs, so you can use an Adult Shadow Dragon at level 20 and get a full power breath ability.

[Orbin Dules]

Just make sure you follow the often overlooked fine print, directly under the words "class features" on the warshaper's page in the Complete Warrior, about how warshapers only gain their class features while in a form other than their own. So your ranger will only gain immunity to critical hits when he's in animal form. It's a pet peeve of mine when people forget that detail. I wish you the best of luck to your build.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Just make sure you follow the often overlooked fine print, directly under the words "class features" on the warshaper's page in the Complete Warrior, about how warshapers only gain their class features while in a form other than their own. So your ranger will only gain immunity to critical hits when he's in animal form.

Or, since MoMF lets you wildshape into a plethora of other creature types, any other humanoid race at all. You know, if you feel like staying humanoid for some reason :smalltongue:

[Soranar]

Lion of Talisid is not really necessary , you can get forms that already have pounce and are quite effective anyway (any big cat, many dinosaurs)

And there are some really big cats in DnD.

If you're not allowed clasp, you might want to consider Vow of poverty. It's effects are always active so it works while wildshaped. (normally it's worse than magic items with the exception of sorcerers and druids, wildshape rangers can probably be added to that list).

It you decide to go that way, I recommend a single level of monk or ninja to get your Wis to AC but you can survive without it.

Ninja gives you trapfinding and has no alignment requirements.

Vow of poverty gives you bonus exalted feats that are useful for wildshape rangers (intuitive strike, exalted wildshape, touch of golden ice, nemesis)

Finally, the PrC Fist of the forest (again, works best if you take a level in monk but you can get buy without it) has very good fluff and game mechanic synergy with Vow of poverty and gives you your Con bonus to AC (for a 1 level dip).

I'd go for Master of Many forms first since it opens you more noncombat options (stuck in a cell? turn into a mouse and scurry out. Need to spy on someone ? Again, go rat/bat/raven or anything small and inconspicuous).

Warshaper just makes you a better fighter.

Also, don't forget you heal completely every time you get out of wildshape.

[Talya]

Yeah, if items are going to be hard to acquire, VOP is a pretty good choice on a wildshape ranger.

[Crasical]

Just make sure you follow the often overlooked fine print, directly under the words "class features" on the warshaper's page in the Complete Warrior, about how warshapers only gain their class features while in a form other than their own. So your ranger will only gain immunity to critical hits when he's in animal form. It's a pet peeve of mine when people forget that detail. I wish you the best of luck to your build.

Actually, I'm playing a fox hengeyoukai for this character for concept reasons. Even when not shaped, I'd be able to get the bonus at all times just by virtue of using my hybrid form. I'll rethink my backstory and see if I can come up with a reason to take VoP though.



Also, don't forget you heal completely every time you get out of wildshape.

Isn't it only the same as a night of rest?

[Soranar]

Isn't it only the same as a night of rest?

Right, I must have misread that.

[GuyLoki]

I am designing a similar character at the moment, well a Wild Shape Ranger to go MoMF. The big reason I am avoiding the Warshaper is that their levels do not stack towards the HD of your wild shape, ultimately 5 levels of War Shaper seems a hindrance to me in limiting how many forms you are able to take.

Given I have no specified examples of times it would particularly annoy me, and its quite possible that its not an issue at all. What do you guys think? What forms do you lose out on or have to delay if you take Warshaper at levels when its bonuses are really worth it? After Ranger 5 / MoMF 10, is going back to continue in Ranger a good plan?

[Cieyrin]

I am designing a similar character at the moment, well a Wild Shape Ranger to go MoMF. The big reason I am avoiding the Warshaper is that their levels do not stack towards the HD of your wild shape, ultimately 5 levels of War Shaper seems a hindrance to me in limiting how many forms you are able to take.

Given I have no specified examples of times it would particularly annoy me, and its quite possible that its not an issue at all. What do you guys think? What forms do you lose out on or have to delay if you take Warshaper at levels when its bonuses are really worth it? After Ranger 5 / MoMF 10, is going back to continue in Ranger a good plan?

Nature's Warrior works very well with Wildshape Ranger (Full BAB, stacks for determining wild shaping, neat abilities). The best Nature's Armaments are probably Armor of the Crocodile, Wings of the Hurricane and Water's Flow, though Robe of Fog and Serpent's Coils can work well in the right build.

[GuyLoki]

By the way, for the wildshaping ranger, I would also strongly suggest taking the feat Darkstalker. You have Hide and Move Silently as class skills, and can wildshape into eventually Diminutive things which gives a HUGE bonus to hide checks. Might as well be hidden from Blindsense too.