Killing a Psion

[Cofniben]

I am playing in an evil campaign where the first session all the party members were forced to drink something and be forced to comply with a strangers demands. So after the very heavy railroading and vague quest details, we were sent off to go get a scroll from a temple. It was a miracle that the party members survived. At one point the DM was against us trying to diplomatically bluff our way out of a fight, and the party members all took damage. So now after finishing the quest and getting everything done, I've decided to look into how to kill a psionic character.

At the moment I am a Swashbuckler 1/Rogue 1 Human, with the feats Able Learner, Weapon Focus (dagger), and Force of Personality (he took the flaw Vulnerable for the extra feat), also Weapon Finesse from 1st level Swashbuckler.

My ability scores are Str: 11 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 16 Wis: 8 Cha: 14

I'm planning on going into the Invisible Blade prestige that is on this website (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_prestige_classes_page.htm), and the DM already okay it.

So I am looking for anything that could help protect me from psionic attacks, I am thinking about taking Closed Mind and Hostile Mind (after I raise my Charisma) after taking Point Blank Shot at 3rd and Daring Outlaw (CW) at 6th.

Also on a side note, for completing our quest, our reward was to get Defensive Shell as a free feat, I'm going to try and convince my DM to let me take Closed Mind instead.

Another side note that I just remembered, I was thinking of taking the Penetrating Strike class feature from Dungeonscape at 3rd level instead of Trap Sense.

[erikun]

Try to infect them with Cascade Flu or Cerebral Parasites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicMaladies). The first can be delivered by a Brain Mole bite (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/brainMole.htm), while I'm not sure how you'd deliver the second.

Other than that, treat the Psion as a Wizard/Sorcerer. They will have a limited number of powers known (unless an Erudite) so spying on them or learning about them can tell you what exactly you need to counter.

[Flickerdart]

I wouldn't recommend using damage to kill him - the Psion may be a Body Leech or know Fiery Discorporation, both of which allow him to slip away unscathed in the event his head gets lopped off. You'll know if it's the latter if he disappears into flames when you kill him, after which he'll reappear in the nearest open flame in one day. Build a nice strong bonfire inside a pit with tigers and sit back. If he is a body leech, he'll probably be using the Stasis Cocoon power, and when dead he will "respawn" in his lair in a different body. The lair will be within 125 miles. He can have up to 16 cocoons, so he'll probably run out of PP if you keep killing him.

Investing in a few buckets of CON damage poison will circumvent all of this, though.

[NeoSeraphi]

As a side note, you might want to mention Weapon Finesse in your list of feats, (some of us reading it might not remember that the Swashbuckler gets it for free)

On to the meat of your question. I don't have the XPH in front of me at the moment, but from what I remember, psions are a lot like wizards except for their ability to hand crowd control. Without abilities like stinking cloud or even fireball, the psion doesn't deal damage in bulk. So I recommend putting ranks into Use Magic Device (if you aren't already) and bringing a scroll of summon monster IX or two to the fight. Then whip it out and summon as many 1d4+1 creatures from the summon monster VII list as you have scrolls and completely surround him.

[Flickerdart]

As a side note, you might want to mention Weapon Finesse in your list of feats, (some of us reading it might not remember that the Swashbuckler gets it for free)

On to the meat of your question. I don't have the XPH in front of me at the moment, but from what I remember, psions are a lot like wizards except for their ability to hand crowd control. Without abilities like stinking cloud or even fireball, the psion doesn't deal damage in bulk. So I recommend putting ranks into Use Magic Device (if you aren't already) and bringing a scroll of summon monster IX or two to the fight. Then whip it out and summon as many 1d4+1 creatures from the summon monster VII list as you have scrolls and completely surround him.
The Psion has a bucket-load of crowd control powers, from the Swarm of Crystals power to Energy Burst, which is exactly the same as Fireball but with a radius twice as large, to Psionic Blast, all the way up to Energy Wave, a 120 foot cone of damage.

[Yora]

Those powers only deal a lot of damage, but don't help you at all at reducing the enemies effectiveness, unless your dm allows them to be scared away by such displays of power.
Psionic Blast is nice though. Can get you a couple of rounds of breathing if placed well. :smallbiggrin:

[NeoSeraphi]

The Psion has a bucket-load of crowd control powers, from the Swarm of Crystals power to Energy Burst, which is exactly the same as Fireball but with a radius twice as large, to Psionic Blast, all the way up to Energy Wave, a 120 foot cone of damage.

I see your point (And am very pleased to have been wrong, it's a needed type of power for a psion) but are they all just damage? I mean, damage is nice, but it's luck of the dice, and if you don't take all the creatures down, you're still getting swarmed, whereas if you pump the DC of a stinking cloud or glitterdust enough, or just throw a web there, you've at least bought yourself a few rounds to pick everyone off.

[Psyren]

Vigor + Shared Pain and a psicrystal can also make relying on damage to kill him a very unlikely prospect. Regardless of discipline, a prepared Psion makes quit a sponge.

[Yora]

Psionic Blast stunns everything in the cone for 1 round at 5 pp. For every 2 additional pp, it's one round more. You just have to be careful where you aim it.
At 12th level, dominate lets you take control of anything that fails its Will save.
With brain lock you can disable any creature for as long as you concentrate.

I personally love disable. Makes all low-level creature near you fall to the ground believing they are mortally wounded and dying.
Some great stuff there. :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Energy Stun is a burst, and so can be enlarged through various means to affect a larger area. The DC scaling is also absurd (fixed in CPsi though, I believe).

Shapers can also spam Astral Constructs, which help deal with numbers disadvantage (though again, CPsi nerfs this).

Dominate is actually a 4th level power, so available at 9th level. It has an augment that allows it to affect additional targets for 2PP a pop, so an Ardent with the power in his Dominant Ideal gets that second target for free, and two more feats (Azure Talent and Midnight Augmentation) give another free target. Then the additional power point spent to extend its duration to 1 hour seals the deal, and now 3 of the party's members are under control of a hostile force.

[Malimar]

I am playing in an evil campaign where the first session all the party members were forced to drink something and be forced to comply with a strangers demands.

I'm in the same campaign, playing a telepath psion 2 (headed for thrallherd). I plan to take Personal Mind Blank for myself, then Psionic Mind Blank for the party, as soon as I can. But that's in, um, 16-18 levels; the campaign probably won't go that long. And even then the DM might be aware of Shatter Mind Blank, or might just negate it by DM fiat. Any suggestions for getting Mind Blank-like effects earlier and/or better?

We don't actually know for sure that the NPC is a psion. I have a suspicion that he's just a "can do anything the DM feels like" character, without any particular build. All we know is the following:


First thing that happened involved drinks. We were in a tavern, some of us ordered various alcoholic beverages, then we saw a grim reaper-type dude in a corner, and we were compelled to go over to him (after a will save). There were drinks at this guy's table, which he offered to us to drink. Once some of the party had drunk, the grim reaper dude called the drinks by some formal name involving deals or contracts (I can't remember the exact wording) and implied that we were now under some sort of magical contract to work for him. When I pointed out that some of us had just bought drinks for ourselves and wouldn't have bothered with the drinks on the table, the DM said no, we were compelled to drink the grim reaper guy's stuff.
When we were in the temple, there was a voice in our heads (presumed to be that of the grim reaper dude) that got angry and started damaging us whenever we showed signs of not murdering everybody present (e.g., when I had a church leader Charm Person'd and was wringing information out of him instead of just killing him).
When we finally got back to the grim reaper dude with the scroll, the reward was a free Defensive Shell feat. I made a Knowledge (Psionics) check and confirmed that we are not actually hosts to any entities, we just have the power as if we were. However, though we're not formally host to anything, there is some sort of entity there, which I presume has something to do with the drinks and the voice in our heads.


So the problem isn't so much "there's a psion we need to kill" as it is "we're being railroaded, worse, we're being railroaded when it is blatantly unnecessary". (We would have gone over to the guy and agreed to his quest in exchange for some reward on our own. The you're-compelled-to-go-over-to-him and the you're-compelled-to-drink and the you're-in-a-contract-because-you've-drunk and the voice in our heads and the hurting us when we started leaving people temporarily alive were just completely uncalled-for.)

(There may also be a little bit of the "if this guy is powerful enough to dominate us like he's been doing, why doesn't he just do it himself instead of sending chumps to do his dirty work for him?" effect going on, but that's a realism concern rather than a directly fun-related concern.)

I really can't tell if the DM is just deliberately trying to make us hate this guy (if so: huge success), or if he's just railroading because he doesn't know any better.

[Flickerdart]

A 2nd level Paladin of Freedom is immune to Compulsion effects. Empty Mind is a 1st level power that can really boost your Will save, as an immediate action, which isn't an immunity but can help.

[Cofniben]

I'm in the same campaign, playing a telepath psion 2 (headed for thrallherd).
[/LIST]

On the other hand, it is helpful in case anything happens with your character, but I don't see you doing anything like that.

[elonin]

Sounds like a talk with the dm might be more useful than attempting to kill the psion. Just let him or her know that this goes beyond normal railroading and that this is your game too.

There are a lot of effects and sources in dnd that I don't know but in non epic games the upper duration is day/level spell (dominate like) which can be extended. Also if the drink is magically influencing your characters it would have had to allow a save. If you were compelled you could have been ordered to fail your save but you'd be conscious of that. Have you checked with psicraft to determine the power controlling you.

[Malimar]

On the other hand, it is helpful in case anything happens with your character, but I don't see you doing anything like that.

I'll make my believers worship me as a god and thereby gain a divine rank of at least zero and thereby win everything forever! My thrall will be a cleric of me! (Actually, I think I'm limited to NPC classes for my thralls and believers, so he'll be an adept of me.) Also I'll make you guys worship me as a god, too, but that's okay 'cause then you can take levels in cleric of me and have the evil, law, knowledge, charm, inquisition, mentalism, or mind domains!

...And probably very little of that is actually going to happen.


Sounds like a talk with the dm might be more useful than attempting to kill the psion. Just let him or her know that this goes beyond normal railroading and that this is your game too.

Yeah, that's the plan. He got a little better after the first session, so there may be hope.


Have you checked with psicraft to determine the power controlling you.

That, also, should be the plan. Our characters should have some downtime right about nowish, so at the beginning of the next session I'll make some psicraft and knowledge (psionics) checks to work on figuring out more precisely what's going on.

[Cofniben]

I'll make my believers worship me as a god and thereby gain a divine rank of at least zero and thereby win everything forever! My thrall will be a cleric of me! (Actually, I think I'm limited to NPC classes for my thralls and believers, so he'll be an adept of me.) Also I'll make you guys worship me as a god, too, but that's okay 'cause then you can take levels in cleric of me and have the evil, law, knowledge, charm, inquisition, mentalism, or mind domains!

And probably none of that is actually going to happen.

Awww, but I was hoping to convince you to set me up as a god as well, so then I can do your evil bidding, in exchange for godhood at least.

[Cofniben]

Sounds like a talk with the dm might be more useful than attempting to kill the psion. Just let him or her know that this goes beyond normal railroading and that this is your game too.

There are a lot of effects and sources in dnd that I don't know but in non epic games the upper duration is day/level spell (dominate like) which can be extended. Also if the drink is magically influencing your characters it would have had to allow a save. If you were compelled you could have been ordered to fail your save but you'd be conscious of that. Have you checked with psicraft to determine the power controlling you.

Well there are plans for that, but this is if this fails, or if the character is supposed to be hated. I like having all my bases covered if I can.