Splitting WBL: Pluses and Everything Else

[Flickerdart]

WBL is based around the numbers balance, right? At these levels, the PCs are assumed to need a +X sword to hit, a +X Cloak of Resistance to withstand enemy spells, a flying item, etcetera, etcetera.

And then there's fun stuff like Hats of Disguise and Decanters of Endless Water and feather tokens and Apparatus of the Crab. Stuff that doesn't directly tie into the WBL calculations, that is, the ability of a character to murder someone's face while avoiding a similar fate. I've long been wondering why this stuff needs to count into WBL at all. In fact, this way, house rules that replace WBL with inherent bonuses wouldn't even touch the nifty items. It also solves the problem where someone might really want a Decanter for their watermill, but doesn't want to give up his ioun stone for it.

What does the Playground think? Can a clear line be drawn between "this is a cool, fun item" and "this is my weapon"?

[Big Fau]

Well, there is a fairly distinct difference between something like a Belt of Expansion and a Belt of Giant's Strength. I'm actually preparing to DM a campaign where the Ability Score boosters (including the Tomes/Manuals) do not count towards the player's WBL (they will be issued over time instead of them having to pay for it). I'm obviously not going to let them sell these things, but it will be nice to see how that pans out.

[Coidzor]

This topic is relevant to my interests, however I don't really have much to really contribute...

I am curious about when or so those assumed bonuses are supposed to kick in though...

[MeeposFire]

4e does this but it has the advantage that spellcasters and melee characters both need magical weapons/implements that is harder to figure in 3e where spellcasters are so different.

[Flickerdart]

This topic is relevant to my interests, however I don't really have much to really contribute...

I am curious about when or so those assumed bonuses are supposed to kick in though...
The MIC lists 4000gp items as 8th level, so that's when the system assumes you get your first +2 stat bonus. 16000 is level 14, and 36000 is 17th. 2000, your first magic weapon, is 6th level, 8000 is 11th, and so forth. Of course, most people will buy the +2 stat item and the magic sword a lot sooner than that, and crafting messes things up a bit, but those are the expectations.

Doubling the stat increase rate (+1 every 2 levels) would give you +2 at 6th (ignoring the +1 you normally get), +4 at 14 and +5 at 18. A point behind, but the math is pretty close, and considering that Tomes are odd-numbered, it all works out.

[Yora]

I think WBL is rather a list of abritary numbers used as a very rough rule of thumb, than an actual calculation on how much the equipment of a character of a given level has to be worth.
With the new 3.5e Damage Reduction, it doesn't really matter what value your equipment has. +2 armor and +2 amulet of natural armor have the same effect as +4 armor, but are much cheaper. And if it's a +1 good weapon or a +3 good weapon also is just a difference in +2 to attack and damage, which a belt of giants strength +4 could also provide.

[Flickerdart]

While that's true, the MIC does outline the level at which you could have an Amulet of Natural Armour +2 and a +2 suit of armour at the same time, and yes it's lower than a +4 suit of armour's. However, a +3 weapon or a +4 armour can have better enhancement crystals in it, while a +4 belt will help you carry more stuff and a +2 amulet takes up an extra slot unless you pay to have it combined with something. Any character who uses one will probably want the other in this case as well, though, so they don't really go against one another.

4e is rather more structured in this regard, and 3.5 is more vague about it, especially since monster statistics and player statistics will vary a lot more over each individual level.

[stainboy]

What does the Playground think? Can a clear line be drawn between "this is a cool, fun item" and "this is my weapon"?

I agree that there's a line somewhere. The couple times that I added up WBL in my Eberron game I never counted the party's airship.

Some of those utility items do correlate to character power though. Part of leveling up is the ability arms race: A barbarian with winged boots and a +1 greatsword is more effective than a grounded barbarian with a +3 greatsword, and so on.

[Flickerdart]

Flying is part of a character's effectiveness the same way as the sword, a I do mention. A spyglass or a water clock isn't.

[stainboy]

Ah, yeah, I missed that.

I'd say the line is between items that allow a particular type of adventuring and items that make you better at it. A ship lets you adventure on the ocean, but it doesn't make you better at any particular type of encounter. It has zero impact on land-based encounters and without it ocean-based encounters don't happen at all. So a ship shouldn't count toward WBL.

I'd agree with you about flavor items too, because if you make flavor stuff count toward WBL then players will sell it or treat it like kryptonite.

[WinWin]

depends on the group.

You have a group that uses weapons, they need their golfbag of weapons to bypass the resistaces and immunities of various monsters. incorporeals, shapechangers, outsiders and whatever else comes their way.

This eats into their expected wealth. It's an imposed tax that they have to pay if they wish to provide a meaningful contribution to certain types of encounters.

Compare to a class that can bypass all of those defences though their class abilities. They can avoid that tax and use their wealth for other purposes.

Regarding WBL

WBL is a meaningful measurement in terms of class discussion. It is supposed to reflect the average amount of treasure you can expect to find by rolling treasure, or by placing treasure according to encounter rewards.

In my experience it is fairly flexible. If you roll for treasure, it will not match up with WBL. Too much variance. Even placing treasure accoring to ecounter rewards will yeild screwy results depending on the number and EL of challenges faced over the course of a characters adventuring career. Actual Wealth may be much higher or lower than the WBL.

If you're starting a game at higher level, then it is a useful tool. From a DM management perspective, it is also a useful tool, as gear does have a direct influence on the capabilities of many characters. Again, for a discussion of class abilities, WBL should be a determinng factor in the expected power a given character can expect to derive from equipment.

WBL in play

Not all choices are balanced. This is true for gear as much for any other player option (yes, equipment is an option, though failing to utilize this option may get your character killed). In the interests of fairness, a players should be given the opportunity to have the same options made available for their characters.

So if a player gets to choose feats from a specific sourcebook...All players should have the opprtunity of doing the same. That is a common expectation for many players. To be provided with equal opportunities.

If a character goes on an adventure, a common expectation is that the rewards from that adventure will be shared. There will be some form of equity.

Having said that, many groups expect equal contribution from all characters. From a purely RP sense, those that contribute more should expect greater rewards than those that are lagging behind and contribute little or nothing...

Oddly enough, my observations are that it is the poor performers that are often graced with powerful magical rewards. This is probably so they can 'keep up' with more powerful members of the group.

All of the flavourful (ie. not combat related) items tend to fall into the hands of characters that don't need expensive toys in order to function. Is this a good thing? Probably not. I would say that it a major flaw of system design...Explaining why I feel that way would require another post.

Can a clear line be drawn between "this is a cool, fun item" and "this is my weapon"?

Sure. I'm not sure it will help with player/character equity, but if it makes your game more entertaining, then do it. You may as well abandon the WBL mechanics entirely and rely on another method of treasure distribution.

It won't address any of the problems arising from gear dependant characters, as they'll still need their golf bag of wands and obscure metals, but as I previously stated, this is a system design flaw that requires a much more involved discussion.