Mage hunting shield fighter

[Xeolan]

So i'd like to build a pure fighter for one of my friend's game.

What i want:

- sword n' board style of play
- good at shield bashing
- good control versus spellcasters

My restrictions:

- lvl 12
- no prestige classes or multi-classing accepted
- low treasure environment (so i can't buy much magic items =/ )


I don't mind sacrificying overal defenses or control, i especialy want a playstyle where my fighter can charge through the battlefield, avoid or resist enemy spells and the slam that pesky mage to pieces.

My DM doesn't mind much made-up feats, as long as it's not too strong, but if i can find existing feats for a mage-hunter fighter it would be great. Meanwhile i thought about the following feats:

Diamond shield:
At the befinning of the round i pick an enemy spellcasters, loose the shield's AC versus surrounding ennemies, but add the shield's AC value to saves against the targeted spellcaster's spells (the saves bonus only applies to spells)

Shield cover:
While the shield is equipped, the fighter gains a benefit similar to ''Improved evasion''

[Studoku]

Before I start, I feel like pointing out that a shield bonus being tight or loose isn't a game term. If you meant lose the shield bonus, that's different.

As for what you're trying to do, it's difficult even without the restrictions. It sounds like you're playing a low optimisation game though so should be worth a try.

How set are you on the shield bashing? World of Warcraft imitation aside, it's not particularly useful and especially not against casters. You're better off wielding a two-hander for the power attack damage.

Also, how anti-prestige class are you (or your DM)? I can work with pure fighter but I'm sure there's a prestige class exactly for this (and splashing barbarian 1 would be nice).

To start with, there's the Mage Slayer feat from Complete Arcane. The prereqs could be a hassle- you need ranks in spellcraft- but it's potentially a good feat for what you're trying to do. It prevents spellcasters you threaten from casting defensively. If you use it, you need to either find a way to stop casters making 5 foot steps away from you or have a 10ft reach. It leads into two more feats that are worth a look- Pierce Magical Protection and Pierce Magical Concealment.

[*.*.*.*]

....Everything I was going to type turned into a sarcastic "Shield fighters blow" rant....Crud


In addition to Stu's questions, you need to tell us what books you can use and HOW effective you want this character to be.

[Xeolan]

Well, the reason i'd like to use a shield is because i've always been fond of shields, and as far as i know, shields in 3.5 are only useful against pysical attacks, and mainly useless against spells (except for tower shield that can grant total cover against some spells, but tower shields aren't an option for me since i want to shield bash) I wanted to find some way to actualy use my shield to defend myself against magical attacks of all kind (much like the typical warrior that protects itself from the dragon's breath with his shield, or the guy that can protect against mind-affecting effects by hiding behind his shield)

As of why i want to shield bash, it's not much about maximising my damage output, but i've always liked the act of charging and slaming my foe with a strong shield strike, much more impressive and ''cinematic'' in my opinion. Plus there are a lot of feats out there that can make shield bashing very versatile.

Book access is not an issue though (although i have not explored so much of them), also my DM clearly stated that prestige classes are not allowed ''yet''

[vartan]

I'm nowhere near as good at this as other Playgrounders but:

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1820-mage-slayer.html
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2158-pierce-magical-concealment.html
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2159-pierce-magical-protection.html

These three are good... I think.

[Studoku]

Complete Warrior has some shield feats you might like then- Shield Charge and Shield Slam.

Shield charge lets you make a free trip attack with your shield when you charge and hit someone with it.

Shield slam lets you daze someone with your shield (fortidute save prevents this, but shouldn't be a problem) as part of a charge or a full round action. As far as I can tell, you can charge someone and use both of these- tripping and dazing them.

[tyckspoon]

Your basic sources should be Complete Arcane and Player's Handbook 2. CArc has the Mage Slayer feat and its followups, Pierce Magical Concealment and Pierce Magical Protection, which let you deny defensive casting, ignore miss chances, and ignore (and if you strike successfully) auto-dispel any buffs granting AC. PHB 2 has some very important shield feats, such as Shield Ward (Shield bonus to Touch AC). I'm also fond of Blood-Spiked Charger, which gives you benefits for charging with a spiked shield and spiked armor (and a couple of other things, because it's a tactical feat, but like most tactical feats the other options aren't that good.) Complete Warrior has a couple of goodies as well, mainly Shield Charge and Shield Slam. They combine pretty nicely with Blood-Spiked Charger- ideally, if everything goes well, you charge your victim and end up with him suffering big damage (Blood Spiked Charger attack, two-hand your shield for 3.5x Str mod damage), prone (Shield Charge lets you make a trip attack) and dazed (Shield Slam), which prevents him from just getting up or crawling away from you so you can pulp him on your next turn.

And you really need something like that, because you don't have reach.. which means if you don't inflict some kind of control effect on your target, they can just 5-foot step away from you and laugh as they throw a Hold Person in your face.

Edit: Although be careful doing this around people who are familiar with Kingdom Hearts. It's actually pretty effective, for a Fighter trick, but it's hard to shake the stigma of using Goofy's fighting style.

[Xeolan]

I also remember seeing some feat or weapon property that would allow me to throw my shield with a 30' increment and then have it return to me instantly while treating it like a melee weapon thus allowing the use of other feats like power attack and etc.. Combined with a daze/stun effect this could be a really good gap-closer against evasive spellcasters.

[Studoku]

Is there a way to get 10ft reach with a one handed weapon without being large? (Other than monkey-gripping a large weapon which I'm not sure even works).

[tyckspoon]

I also remember seeing some feat or weapon property that would allow me to throw my shield with a 30' increment and then have it return to me instantly while treating it like a melee weapon thus allowing the use of other feats like power attack and etc.. Combined with a daze/stun effect this could be a really good gap-closer against evasive spellcasters.

That would be a combination of the Bloodstorm Blade prestige class (Tome of Battle, signature ability is treating thrown weapons as melee attacks + instant return) and either the Throwing + probably Distance weapon properties or the Shield Sling feat. Shield Sling is pretty nifty with the Bloodstorm Blade, but it's not very good otherwise since, even with Returning, it requires you to throw away your shield for a round.

[Angry Bob]

Is there a way to get 10ft reach with a one handed weapon without being large? (Other than monkey-gripping a large weapon which I'm not sure even works).

In the DMG, the Kusari-gama is a one-handed weapon that can strike 10ft. away. Secrets of Sarlona has a similar weapon. Using those as a base, OP's DM sounds reasonable enough to allow these or homebrewed weapons similar to them.

I know of at least one shield handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532), there are probably others. Whether to use them is a question of the optimization level of the game.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Is Tome of Battle available? Because warblade has the diamond mind maneuvers that improve your saving throws, and it's necessary to have good saves when hunting wizards. They also have iron will, lightning reflexes, and great fortitude on their bonus feat list, which are pretty subpar, but they're bonus feats.

If you want, you can also use martial study to get devoted sprit maneuvers, a couple of which utilize shields.

[ericgrau]

In a low treasure environment at level 12 it's an uphill battle for any fighter. You can't even get your shield bonus up that high for the custom feat. Nor do much of anything your class requires. Meanwhile the casters go from casting more spells, to casting less spells of equal power. Unless it's a long adventuring day they won't even notice. I'd talk to your DM about wealth and game balance. At the very least he needs to give you something to compensate for your stats going down the tubes. At level 12 quite literally half of your damage and up to 8 points of AC comes from magical enhancements.

[Hiro Protagonest]

In a low treasure environment at level 12 it's an uphill battle for any fighter. You can't even get your shield bonus up that high for the custom feat. Nor do much of anything your class requires. Meanwhile the casters go from casting more spells, to casting less spells of equal power. Unless it's a long adventuring day they won't even notice. I'd talk to your DM about wealth and game balance. At the very least he needs to give you something to compensate for your stats going down the tubes. At level 12 quite literally half of your damage and up to 8 points of AC comes from magical enhancements.

Yeah, you need some kind of stat boost to compensate. If you don't get one and he allows full casters in the party, then you are royally screwed.

[Heatwizard]

Edit: No multiclassing? And low items? Yikes. You would be hard-pressed to find an enviroment more hostile to a Fighter, especially if you've got your heart set on Sord n' Bord. I mean, no one will jump out of a vehicle and shoot you for trying it, but I'm afraid all signs point to no.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Straight Fighter, he said. Although I would thoroughly recommend a Warblade dip somewhere past level 6 - get some of that there Iron Heart Surge, and when you're fighting casters you will probably need to shake off all sorts of status effects. Only takes one level. *shrug*

He didn't say straight fighter, he said multiclassing is not allowed (which is absurd), so a straight warblade meets the requirements.

[Heatwizard]

He didn't say straight fighter, he said multiclassing is not allowed (which is absurd), so a straight warblade meets the requirements.

I noticed I missed a line right after. *whistle* This DM must despise melee.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I noticed I missed a line right after. *whistle* This DM must despise melee.

Yep, if he doesn't give some sort of boost like at least what VoP gives, and if there are full casters in the party...

It's like considering Gandalf and Frodo equal in terms of power.

[Heatwizard]

Yep, if he doesn't give some sort of boost like at least what VoP gives, and if there are full casters in the party..

Still won't be nearly enough.

...Oh, derp. He's allowed homebrew! Thirteen custom-made feats to hate on casters, we can make that work.

[nyarlathotep]

I had a long piece of advice types out then I realized the whole thing boiled down to "play crusader or warblade".

[Divide by Zero]

Crusader with Mage Slayer, maybe? It actually has interesting things to do with a shield, and it's pretty good at keeping stuff from getting away from it if you can find a way to get reach.

[Devmaar]

Is there a way to get 10ft reach with a one handed weapon without being large? (Other than monkey-gripping a large weapon which I'm not sure even works).

If you're mounted a lance is a one handed martial reach weapon

[Flame of Anor]

Is there a way to get 10ft reach with a one handed weapon without being large? (Other than monkey-gripping a large weapon which I'm not sure even works).

A whip, right? Or a whip-dagger if you want lethal damage.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Shield feat!

Block Spell
Prerequisite: Diamond Shield
Benefit: once per round, while using a shield, you can block any spell targeting you that requires a touch attack, or you can negate the effects of an AoE.
Example: using this, you can block a ray of enfeeblement or negate any damage you would take from a fireball.

[Jude_H]

It might help to work in some spell reflection or re-casting. Because the sad state of 3e leaves magic as one of the only ways to effectively counter magic (in games with a high focus on tactics or optimization, anyway).

So just tossing something else out there...


Spell Catcher
Prerequisite: Block spell, BA +6
Benefit: Your shield carries residual energy of spells it's deflected.

When you negate a spell's effects through the Block Spell feat, your shield may retain the spell's energy. The effects are retained for 24 hours, or until the shield leaves your hands.

As an immediate action, you may release the spell from the shield, determining new targets or area as you activate the ability. The released spell uses the caster level, spell level and save DC of the initial casting.

The total spell levels retained by a shield may not exceed your Base Attack bonus.

Some of the abusability is not accidental.