Shifter Warblade?

[Amoren]

So, I'm making a character for an e12 game, and I've got an urge to play a werewolf type character and I've been eager to play a Tome of Battle character. So I'm looking advice for a character.

Planned build is something like Lion Totem barbarian 2/Warblade 2/Bloodclaw Master 2/Warshaper 4/Warblade or whatever 2.

There's a few questions I had, like if I could incorporate Power Attack/Leap Attack with dual wielding Tiger Claw strikes (since a lot of them incorporates leaps, I figure it'll mix well). I don't know how well this'll work though (maybe with the oversized two-weapon fighting feat?).

[Cieyrin]

Ubercharging and maneuvers don't typically mix that well, given strikes have a dependence on your standard action generally. There are a couple of of charge strikes that can work but I don't think they're primarily in Tiger Claw, that's more a Devoted Spirit/White Raven thing.

Typically, if you want to make good use of Bloodclaw Master for TWFing purposes, you want to use Tiger Claw weapons, which tend to be light, so I'd go for kukris or go as a Razorclaw shifter to use claws or a mix of the two.

[Gotterdammerung]

Warshaper isn't very useful imo for a shifter. The abilities of warshaper only work while you are in your altered form. And shifters have a low frequency and duration for changing form. That makes things like growing natural weapons and fast healing much less useful.

I imagine the totem is to gain pounce but for this build there is a better way.

Bloodclaw master doesnt really do much either.


I Built a similar character that had a sort of weretiger man feel. Pouncing and ripping people apart with claws.

Theres all kinds of variations you could go with but the main thing to look at is 1 lvl of any job that will help you get survival 8 ranks and knowledge nature 5 ranks. 5 lvls of weretouched master (eberon campaign setting) the rest warblade or swordsage depending on your tastes.

I like scout 1/ warblade 4/ weretouched master 5 and then continue in warblade. But that is because i don't like the flavor of mindless raging. (yes i know you can be a smart rager with BOED feat but i didnt like that flavor either.)

Weretouched master with the tiger ancestor gives u
pounce when ur shifted.

+4 strength when ur shifted.

Allows you to replace your shift with a supernatural polymorph into a Tiger lycanthrope (animal OR hybrid). You basically apply a str +12(+16 with your 4 strength for shifting) dex+4 con +6 stat adjstment to your character . Then your size(large) and natural attacks (clawx2 bite and situational rakex2) mirror the MM entry for tiger lycanthrope hybrid and animal forms.



Typically, Martial manuevers don't mesh well with a full attack style build, but in this case it works rather well. Your very high potential strength makes the DC of a lot of manuevers very high. And there are lots of manuevers that directly complement your pouncing charge style. Example, Battle leader's charge + swift action boost Dancing Mongoose= 4x claw's and 2 rakes at full attack bonus and 1 bite at -5 (-2 with multiattack.) all with +10 damage added.

Tiger claw school fits well in roleplay and has a good bit of useful manuevers. But all the warblade schools can offer good choices.


and if/when you reach 1 scout 5 weretouched master/20 warblade, wolfpack tactics and press the advantage make for a visually stunning stance combo with this build.



If u want to tho you can go barbarian 1 warblade 4 weretouched master 5 and warblade the rest. The benefit here is of course either earlier pounce or +10 movement. 4 more strength and con from rage (6 more wich reckless rage). Downside is more feat pressure as extra rage is a must and reckless rage is tempting.


Just a quick tally of wat kind of strength were talking here for hmm lvl 12.

18 str starting out.
+6 belt of giant strength
+3 from level bumps
+4 from shifting
+12 from weretiger hybrid form
+6 optional from reckless rage barbarian route.

43 strength 49 for barbarian route with reckless rage

next step is to save up 137,500 gold for +5 inherent str bonus.


By 20th lvl you should be up to.

50 str 56 for barbarian route with reckless rage.

[Firechanter]

Ubercharging and maneuvers don't typically mix that well, given strikes have a dependence on your standard action generally. There are a couple of of charge strikes that can work but I don't think they're primarily in Tiger Claw, that's more a Devoted Spirit/White Raven thing.

Whut? TC has Pouncing Charge, which can be further boosted by Dancing/Raging Mongoose. With that, you only need a handful of feats to make an Ubercharger Warblade earn his pay. The difference to a regular Ubercharger is that the Warblade still has a bunch of other tricks up his sleeve, for those occasions when übercharging won't work.

Actually, there's no reason to take those Spirit Lion Barb levels anymore. You can go Warblade all the way and be an awesome Charger.

That said,
Wieldest thou thy two-handed weapon with alacrity; but two weapons shalt thou not wield, excepting that thou hast a source of bonus damage such as Sneak Attack. -- 2nd Commandment of Optimization

I haven't tried it myself, but you can easily figure that IF you want to charge with two weapons, Oversized TWF is a _Must_ . Most of your charge damage comes from various ways of pimping Power Attack, and you can't PA with light weapons.
However, Scims are not finessable, but you still need a good Dex to even qualify for the TWF iteratives. So that's a bit tricky, unless you have a houserule that improves the TWF feat to give you iteratives automatically.
The upside is that feats like Leap Attack actually give a better return on two One Handed weps compared to a Two Handed one, since you get the PA bonus twice.

If you can make it work, a Tiger's Claw charging in with 6 attacks on a Charge (at level 9, when everyone else still gets only 2 attacks on a Full Attack), wielding Dual Keen Scims in the Blood in the Water Stance, full monty Shock Trooper and Leap Attack... that's gonna be pretty fearsome. :-o

All that said and done, where does the Werewolf fit in there? I'm afraid not at all. :/ For an E12 game, this build comes into its own late enough as it is. Also, if you want to use natural attacks, forget it, these tend to have crappy Critical stats, and as TC TWFer you'll want to be a crit fisher. And Bloodclaw Master is a Trap, at least for Warblades.

[Greenish]

I haven't tried it myself, but you can easily figure that IF you want to charge with two weapons, Oversized TWF is a _Must_ . Most of your charge damage comes from various ways of pimping Power Attack, and you can't PA with light weapons.Except with unarmed strikes or natural weapons. Which just so happen to be Tiger Claw weapons.

Ubercharger uses lance, by the way, and even the normal charger set-up might not be necessary for a warblade.

[Cieyrin]

Except with unarmed strikes or natural weapons. Which just so happen to be Tiger Claw weapons.

Ubercharger uses lance, by the way, and even the normal charger set-up might not be necessary for a warblade.

Not quite true, as only claws are Tiger Claw weapons from the natural weapon camp.

Also, I'm not sure why we're necroing a thread for a character that was likely built almost 2 months ago. :smallconfused:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greataxe is a Tiger Claw weapon, as is an Unarmed Strike. I'd go Unarmed Swordsage 2/ Warblade 4/ Bloodclaw Master 2/ Warblade 4, and TWF with a greateaxe and unarmed strikes using kicks, elbows, headbutts, etc. Also note that you get to add power attack to unarmed strikes, while still counting it as light for TWF. Alternatively you could switch one Swordsage level for Barbarian to get Pounce, in which case definitely use Whirling Frenzy and get Extra Rage at least once.

[Firechanter]

Also, I'm not sure why we're necroing a thread for a character that was likely built almost 2 months ago. :smallconfused:

Maybe because Götterdämmerung considered your advice not very helpful - just guessing - and the rest of us tends not to check the dates when replying to a thread at the top of the board.

Anyway, I checked Tiger's Claw again and indeed, the maneuvers I mentioned above are pretty much the only ones that support TWF at all. Pretty much everything else says "single melee attack". Maybe it can be improved with Dual Strike. Zoink, another feat down the drain.

@Biffo:
Greataxe + Unarmed might be an idea; I'm just not sure if it's worth the effort. You sacrifice 2 points of BAB, forfeiting your 3rd attack (which only comes very late in the game anyway). You still need to invest TWF feats (at least one), all for 1d3 + 1/2 Str + 1*PA and no decent option to enhance attack bonus or damage magically. Also, you can get the Valorous property on your Greataxe but not on your foot.
So all in all... not sure if it's worth it, when you could spend the levels to get another attack, better maneuvers and different feats.

[Firechanter]

sry, double post due to forum hickup

[Firechanter]

triple post due to forum hickup. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Greenish]

Greataxe is a Tiger Claw weaponYes, but unfortunately the Bloodclaw Master features don't work on it, for some reason.

I've tripped into this while making a character in the past. :smallfrown:

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Probably because Bloodclaw Master is mainly about TWFing?

[Greenish]

Probably because Bloodclaw Master is mainly about TWFing?So? Greataxe and unarmed strike are Tiger Claw weapons that go beautifully together.

[Firechanter]

Just rack up the Trap score of Bloodclaw Master by 1. =D

[Anarchy_Kanya]

So? Greataxe and unarmed strike are Tiger Claw weapons that go beautifully together.
Yeah... Not everyone is willing to take Improved Unarmed Strike just for that.
Or it's a simple typo and greataxe should be there. ToB has many errors, so I wouldn't be surprised. But whatever.