RAW support for deliberately failing saves.

[NNescio]

So, I generally accept as fact that creatures can deliberately fail their saves. I have problems trying to find the relevant line in RAW though, whether it's explicit or implicit. Would someone kindly point me in the right direction? Thank you.

[Rogue Shadows]

...okay, I'll start hunting for you in a moment, but first, I have to know the story that prompts you to want to fail a saving throw.

[Zaq]

Try PHB pg. 177.

[NNescio]

Try PHB pg. 177.
Ah found it. Thank you.

Edit: That section seems to imply that it's only exclusive for saving throws from spells. Is there another line which extends it for saving throws in general?


...okay, I'll start hunting for you in a moment, but first, I have to know the story that prompts you to want to fail a saving throw.

Dominate Person as a buff and CdG suicides. Yes, my players are wacky. Yes, I love them.

Of course, I can just handwave anything, but I prefer to go 'By-the-Book" whenever it's possible.

[Alleine]

I believe you're allowed to voluntarily fail all saves related to the drugs in the BoVD, Lords of Darkness, and the Eberron Sharn book? I forget what it's called.

[Moriato]

Edit: That section seems to imply that it's only exclusive for saving throws from spells. Is there another line which extends it for saving throws in general?

Not that I'm aware of. Which makes sense, really, because the only other things I can think of that would force a saving throw would be poison or disease and things like that. Unless you can voluntarily shut off your own immune system I don't see how you could choose to fail a save against them.

[Ravens_cry]

Not that I'm aware of. Which makes sense, really, because the only other things I can think of that would force a saving throw would be poison or disease and things like that. Unless you can voluntarily shut off your own immune system I don't see how you could choose to fail a save against them.

Don't forget reflex saves from many traps. Maybe you WANT to go into that pit because Plot Coupon #3 is down there for whatever reason.

[Chilingsworth]

How can dominate person be used as a buff? Also, what is CdG (and, why would they want to commit suicide, anyway?)

[AmberVael]

How can dominate person be used as a buff?
Among other things...

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on.
I'm sure you can see how that would be useful.


Also, what is CdG (and, why would they want to commit suicide, anyway?)

Coup de Grace, presumably. And committing suicide would allow you to avoid certain negative effects like being tortured, dominated, or otherwise used by an enemy... and then you could just rely on your allies to bring you back (you can tell who is raising you, after all.)

Death is a lot less of a huge issue when you can just be raised. You can in fact use it to your benefit.

[Moriato]

Don't forget reflex saves from many traps. Maybe you WANT to go into that pit because Plot Coupon #3 is down there for whatever reason.

That's true. It sounds like it requires a DM ruling to me. Were I the DM I'd just ask the player how they wish to fail. If they can describe how they go about voluntarily failing (or I can) then I'd allow it, if not, then no.

[Ravens_cry]

That's true. It sounds like it requires a DM ruling to me. Were I the DM I'd just ask the player how they wish to fail. If they can describe how they go about voluntarily failing (or I can) then I'd allow it, if not, then no.
My ranks in Preform: Pratfall?:smalltongue:

[Graha013]

Don't forget reflex saves from many traps. Maybe you WANT to go into that pit because Plot Coupon #3 is down there for whatever reason.

Or it's an automatically resetting trap of cure minor wounds and you need a fix..

[Curmudgeon]

Rules Compendium broadened the scope of when you're allowed to fail (page 112):
VOLUNTARILY FAILING

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a consequence. It's any saving throw now, not just vs. spells.

[NNescio]

Rules Compendium broadened the scope of when you're allowed to fail (page 112): It's any saving throw now, not just vs. spells.

Ah, thank you.

[Ravens_cry]

Or it's an automatically resetting trap of cure minor wounds and you need a fix..
That may be a trap in the game sense, but unless it is in the form of a curiously androgynous, bishonen male, I would say it is not a trap in the in-world sense.

Huzzah for Curmudgeon by the way; I think they must have the books engraved on the inside of their brainpan.

[Zale]

Well. I could see someone failing a will save versus illusion if that illusion was there for entertainment purposes.

[Ravens_cry]

Well. I could see someone failing a will save versus illusion if that illusion was there for entertainment purposes.
So. . .Willing Suspension of Disbelief?:smallamused:

[Thurbane]

...okay, I'll start hunting for you in a moment, but first, I have to know the story that prompts you to want to fail a saving throw.
I found a character of mine in a situation where deliberately failing a save would be advantageous. We were playing EttRoG, and I was playing Dagornach Spurling (Dragon Shaman). We were fighting some Demons that shot a ray which caused Paralysis (X rounds) on a failed save, or Stunning (1 round) on a successful save. Now, my character was immune to paralysis by virtue of my Dragon Shaman class features, but not immune to stunning - so in effect, I was better off to fail the save than pass it. :smalltongue:

[deuxhero]

Well. I could see someone failing a will save versus illusion if that illusion was there for entertainment purposes.

Or Shadow X/Shades Buffs.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

If you're under the effects of multiple compulsion effects the casters have a cl duel to see who controls you. So friendly wizard doms you then allows you to act on your own free will until your hit with another control then he can have a duel of wills.

Not sure but I think a similar preemptive dom could stop things like FB.

[That_guy_there]

I was in this situation a while ago... We were in a campaign where my hulking hurler seemed to have plateaued... and then we faced a pair of wereboars. And since his Fort save was insanely high, he was "immune" to lycanthropy... so I decided to forego the save altogether. Boom: Hill giant Wereboar hulking hurler in the hands of a PC.