Roy's Skill Points

[DougTheHead]

Where is he putting them?

There seems to be enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that Roy has a high Intelligence score, so he should get a decent handful of skill points. But he doesn't seem to put them into anything in particular. He only has 1 rank in Ride. His Spot and Listen checks are both regularly depicted as fairly low. He seems to rely on blacksmiths enough that he probably doesn't have any ranks in Craft. Is there any skill that the comic has suggested he's put a lot of points into? What seems most likely?

[TSED]

He has a number of skill points in intimidate (whether or not they're maxed is speculation), likely a good amount in jump, and (this is pure speculation on my part) I can see him having invested some in knowledge (military history / tactics / etc.), even at cross-class.

[Kobold-Bard]

Probably put a few in Cross-class Move Silently, originally he did a lot of sneaking around dungeons.

Origins shows him to have either Knowledge (Arcana) or Spellcraft to know the details of the fireball spell.

[gellerche]

We also know that Roy has Great Cleavage, so that probably took a few points.

[Kobold-Bard]

We also know that Roy has Great Cleavage, so that probably took a few points.

I do believe that's a combination of Feats & a decent Charisma score, rather than skills.

[Adonis1x23]

I do believe that's a combination of Feats & a decent Charisma score, rather than skills.

Diplomacy?

[HappyBlanket]

Diplomacy?

No, but it does provide a bonus to Diplomacy checks.

[Kish]

We also know that Roy has Great Cleavage, so that probably took a few points.
Jokes aside, Great Cleave is a feat. A feat is not a skill.

[Snails]

His Int is probably 16 or higher. That means as a human he gets 24 skill points for 1st level, and 6 every level thereafter.

It does seem that he is rather skill-less. But I suppose he might have quite a few Knowledge cross class ranks.

I would guess he has at least 10 ranks of Jump and Climb, and 5 ranks in Balance (which is cross class). He seemed pretty competent at fighting on that flying dragon.

[Fitzclowningham]

Knowledge: Military History/Tactics are cross-class skills for a fighter? What did they teach them at Fighter College?

[TSED]

Knowledge: Military History/Tactics are cross-class skills for a fighter? What did they teach them at Fighter College?

2 bonus feats.

[Branco]

He seemed pretty competent at fighting on that flying dragon.


Could be from the Freedom of Movement spell

[ORione]

Knowledge: Military History/Tactics are cross-class skills for a fighter? What did they teach them at Fighter College?

All Knowledge skills are cross-class for fighters.

[mightycleric]

He has mentioned having knowledge on multiple occasions, so I'm guessing that he has mainly used them for cross-class knowledge skills, trying to get at least a few points in multiple different ones. Perhaps this goes back to the fact that he also has wizards in the family (which might also be why he has a higher INT score in the first place), and thus prizes knowledge (even though it isn't a class skill for him, like it is for them).

[Zevox]

I think saying he has a "high" intelligence is probably an overestimation, but a decent one at least - I'd guess maybe 14. Still, even with a decent intelligence, Fighters do not get many skill points (only 2 + int per level, 4x that at first level, plus the bonus point per level for being Human). As for skills, well, the class skills for Fighters are:

Climb (Maybe, but we have no evidence of it.)
Craft (Probably not, as the OP noted.)
Handle Animal (Seems unlikely given his lack of displayed interest in animals.)
Intimidate (Wouldn't surprise me if he had a number of ranks in this.)
Jump (Maybe, but we have little if any evidence of it.)
Ride (We know has only one rank.)
Swim (Maybe, but we have no evidence of it.)

For cross-class skills, I could easily see him having put points in a some Knowledge skills, or maybe Diplomacy, or even a rank or two in Spellcraft from his father's attempts to teach him magic. Not much else seems to make sense though.

But yeah, on the whole, we have little idea where he's actually spent his skill points, and not much to go on for speculation.

Zevox

[GSFB]

with an above average but not maxed INT, he probably has around 6 skill points per level, plus the starting points at level 1. i wouldn't be surprised if he chose 4 skills to max out, and spreads his remaining points around.

my choices for a fighter and party leader would be:

climb
jump
swim
intimidate

these are all class skills and probably maxed out

he has probably spread the remaining around in diplomacy, handle animal, ride, and some crafts. Yes, crafts - even though he has relied on weaponsmiths, that could be simply because he knows his limitations, and major repair/reforging of an heirloom is too high a DC. But he probably has a few ranks so that he can at least perform routine sharpening, cleaning, repairs, etc. Any intelligent fighter would do just that.

[Zubzub]

Roy's comment on first panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) sounds like he can at least perform repairs on his armor.

[Adeptus]

His Int is probably 16 or higher.

That sounds crazy. 14 is much more believable. Smart, but not a genius.

[Silfir]

I thought it was implied by numerous parties that Roy could have been a decent wizard if he had wanted to; sounds like at least 16 INT to me.

[super dark33]

There is a thread just about it, look up for Class and leel geekery.

[werik]

This comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html) suggests to me that Roy has some skill points invested in spellcraft, although it is not definitive since he could have just recognized the spell from Vaarsuvius' earlier casting of it.

Intimidate is confirmed and seems likely maxed just due to Roy's character, as others have said.

I agree that it Roy probably has some significant ranks invested in jump. This comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0689.html) shows Roy jumping with ease on the back of the purple worm even while carrying Belkar. Granted, Roy already has a high strength check unassisted by the belt of giant's strength, but I'd still say he must have some decent points invested in jump.

[Stegyre]

That sounds crazy. 14 is much more believable. Smart, but not a genius.

This comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html) strongly implies that Roy is smarter than V-.

It's "crazy" in your typical even-semi-optimized DnD party, but a recurring point in OotS is that the party is decidedly non-optimized, so the wizard is an evoker who has banned conjuration, the fighter's high stat is Int not Str, the ranger/barbarian put no points into survival (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), etc.

[Stegyre]

[deleted double post]

[Kish]

This comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html) strongly implies that Roy is smarter than V-.
No, Rich addressed that idea way back when that comic came out. Vaarsuvius has higher Intelligence; Roy has higher total mental scores, because neither Vaarsuvius' Wisdom nor Charisma is...impressive.

[Yuki Akuma]

Considering his Animal Husbandry course was in goat herding, I'd expect him to have a few ranks in Handle Animal.

[GSFB]

16 is not a genius. 1 in 216 people will have an 18. think about this: my high school graduating class had about 600 people. so statistically, about 3 people JUST IN MY CLASS had an 18. a 16 would just be an honor student, not Einstein.

and of course, this doesn't even begin to account for level increases, magic, racial bonuses and other things that can boost to over 18.

[Zevox]

16 is not a genius. 1 in 216 people will have an 18. think about this: my high school graduating class had about 600 people. so statistically, about 3 people JUST IN MY CLASS had an 18. a 16 would just be an honor student, not Einstein.

and of course, this doesn't even begin to account for level increases, magic, racial bonuses and other things that can boost to over 18.
That's using the assumption that dice roll statistics accurately represent how common stats are among the game's populace. Not exactly a sound assumption I'd say.

Zevox

[LightsOnNo1Home]

That's using the assumption that dice roll statistics accurately represent how common stats are among the game's populace. Not exactly a sound assumption I'd say.

Zevox

Ummm... Yes. It is. If a given population (a) uses dice rolls to determine stats and (b) is large enough, then the distribution of ability scores within that population will follow the bell curve for the dice rolls.

Also, the whole point in dice rolls is to represent the natural variation in peoples abilities.

[hamishspence]

It misses out the possibility that a large number of people will use "standard arrays" of various kinds.

In which case 10s and 11s may be significantly more common than the dice would dictate.

[Thanatosia]

Ummm... Yes. It is. If a given population (a) uses dice rolls to determine stats and (b) is large enough, then the distribution of ability scores within that population will follow the bell curve for the dice rolls.
It also assumes that adventurers, the type of people you play in D&D, are just random average joe shmoes and not special 'hero caliber' type people - you roll the same 3d6 for your dungeon raiding knight's stats that random peasant #7 down the street did.

[Kish]

You haven't rolled 3d6 for a PC's stats by default since 2ed.

[Zevox]

Ummm... Yes. It is. If a given population (a) uses dice rolls to determine stats
And that assumption right there is where the flaw is. Using dice rolls to determine stats is (A) only one of a few ways to do that, (B) not how the rules even determine stats for most characters and creatures (most either use the standard array or in rarer cases elite array, plus racial modifiers - only PCs, and with most DMs relevant villains, get better than that), and (C) a game rule which is not and never was meant to reflect the setting's general population.

Zevox

[Kibble Sage]

Agreed. Not only are there a zillion methods of rolling, there is also point buy, and in any case adventurers are generally considered to be exceptional. Myself, I would prefer if 18 ability scores were literally one in a million, so that there could be a party with a lot of 12s through 15s, and maybe one or two 16s, who would still be considered to be a very large step above the average.

The odds are that none of us have ever personally met a person with 18 intelligence.

[Narren]

The odds are that none of us have ever personally met a person with 18 intelligence.

With the obvious exception of this forum :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, do a search for some of the threads where people stat themselves. You see a VERY disproportionate number of people giving themselves 18's (usually in int).

[JackRackham]

That's using the assumption that dice roll statistics accurately represent how common stats are among the game's populace. Not exactly a sound assumption I'd say.

Zevox

Also assuming "elite" rolls? NPCs, I think, use straight 6 x 3d6 for stats.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also assuming "elite" rolls? NPCs, I think, use straight 6 x 3d6 for stats.

NPCs generally use arrays. Most common schlubs get three 10s and three 11s, while powerful people get the elite array.

[Larspcus2]

Agreed. Not only are there a zillion methods of rolling, there is also point buy, and in any case adventurers are generally considered to be exceptional. Myself, I would prefer if 18 ability scores were literally one in a million, so that there could be a party with a lot of 12s through 15s, and maybe one or two 16s, who would still be considered to be a very large step above the average.

The odds are that none of us have ever personally met a person with 18 intelligence.

But the problem with that is that someone with 18 int has only a five percent greater chance of success on knowledge checks and the like than a 16 int person, and a twenty percent chance greater than the average (10 int). So, if an average, 10 int person got a seventy percent on a test, then an 18 int person would get a ninety percent, which is not a large enough difference to be one in a million.

[Kibble Sage]

But the problem with that is that someone with 18 int has only a five percent greater chance of success on knowledge checks and the like than a 16 int person, and a twenty percent chance greater than the average (10 int). So, if an average, 10 int person got a seventy percent on a test, then an 18 int person would get a ninety percent, which is not a large enough difference to be one in a million.

When you put it that way, it's both interesting and depressing. :smallsmile:

[KingofMadCows]

Intelligence is overrated. Experience is much more important. There have been a ton of experiments that have shown problem solving abilities and creativity are learned rather than innate. There's the classic Rosenthal study where they randomly selected a bunch elementary school students and told the teachers that these students were gifted. After a while, these students began getting significantly higher grades and scoring higher on IQ tests than the control group.

[TimeWizard]

ANYWAY... At the time of SoD, Roy does not have any ranks in Bluff. From the book
Roy:Whew. Nat 20 on an untrained bluff check.

[Deuterium Dawn]

ANYWAY... At the time of SoD, Roy does not have any ranks in Bluff. From the book
Roy:Whew. Nat 20 on an untrained bluff check.


Wasn't that NCFtPB? With the "king" giants that were supposedly guarding the star metal?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0139.html

[VanBuren]

He has mentioned having knowledge on multiple occasions, so I'm guessing that he has mainly used them for cross-class knowledge skills, trying to get at least a few points in multiple different ones. Perhaps this goes back to the fact that he also has wizards in the family (which might also be why he has a higher INT score in the first place), and thus prizes knowledge (even though it isn't a class skill for him, like it is for them).

In which case, he really should have considered "Able Learner" as a feat.

[Kish]

In which case, he really should have considered "Able Learner" as a feat.
There is no indication that OotS uses Races of Destiny or that Roy could have chosen a feat from it.

[VanBuren]

There is no indication that OotS uses Races of Destiny or that Roy could have chosen a feat from it.

Man, even NWN2 had that as a feat.

Sorry Roy, looks like you got the short end of the stick.