[3.5] So let's say I got rid Cleric spellcasting...PEACH

[Rogue Shadows]

Well, not all of them.

Let's say for the sake of argument that I take each of the cleric Domains from the PHB, give them each a 0-level spell, and declared, "clerics can now only cast spells from their Domains!"

I proceed to make the following changes.
- Clerics gain a bonus Domain at 6th, 12th, and 18th levels, for a total of 5 domains.
- Domain spells are now spell-like abilities, not spells.
- Clerics can no longer spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells.
- Any deity that has less than 5 domains will be rectonned to have 5.
- Clerics can cast any domain spell they know spontaneously. They can cast a total number of spells of a given level according to the following table. As usual, a high Wisdom grans bonus spells per day.

http://i52.tinypic.com/ka6178.png

Cleric spell selection has just become extremely limited, and the class a very focused caster. They get more spells per day and the spells are slightly harder to deal with (being spell-likes now), but I understand that this is not a good counterbalance for their extreme loss of versatility. It has dropped from being Tier 1 all the way down to Tier 5.

So.

What do you think should be done to the Cleric in order to bring it back up to, say, Tier 3?

I'm feeling that each Domain should probably grant a series of special powers based on Cleric level, kind of like Vestiges.

Any other ideas?

[Othniel Edden]

I'd probably expand the number of spells on each domain list to a few thematically correct options, or increase the number of starting domains. Add in appropriate class features. I'd also probably have domains dictate what certain class features are.. like having the war domain give access to heavy armors and dropping most clerics to medium.

[kenjigoku]

I would have domains grant class features.

The trickery domain might grant trapfinding.

Plant domain may grant trackless step or an animal companion.

Knowledge domain may grant bardic knowledge.

Something to offset the fact that not a soul would play a cleric over any other spell caster at this point. Heck I think even hexblades are better.

Oh and while your at it bump the Spells per Day to be more in line with a duskblade :)

[Lonely Tylenol]

The ability to grab domains from more than one deity of a compatible alignment, since you're invariably going to get one or two good domains that you want, and three or four crappy ones that you don't, if you're limited to only one deity (meaning you basically cast one or two spells from each level).

[Rogue Shadows]

I'd probably expand the number of spells on each domain list to a few thematically correct options,

So...instead of 10 spells, each Domain grants, I dunno, 20? 30? 25-30 seems good. I like this; I'll do it.


or increase the number of starting domains.

Plus keep the extra domains, for a total of 6 domains total by level 18? Or keep it so it caps at 5?


Add in appropriate class features. I'd also probably have domains dictate what certain class features are.. like having the war domain give access to heavy armors and dropping most clerics to medium.

This is what I was thinking, though those class features would be outlined in the domains, not the cleric class itself.

As for the cleric class itself...I'm feeling some bonus feats, certainly. I'm going to see if I can turn on my old laptop, as I once did something similar to this with a low-magic setting...


The ability to grab domains from more than one deity of a compatible alignment, since you're invariably going to get one or two good domains that you want, and three or four crappy ones that you don't, if you're limited to only one deity (meaning you basically cast one or two spells from each level).

Kind of removes the idea of a cleric choosing a patron deity...

[Yitzi]

I'd say you should have more than one spell per level per domain...every cleric spell (except the broken ones) should be available either to some domain or else (for the really important and archetypical ones) "universal" (i.e. can be cast by all clerics regardless of domain.)

Because by your rules clerics can't resurrect, and that's just silly (not to mention totally throwing off the general game structure at higher levels).

[Rogue Shadows]

Because by your rules clerics can't resurrect, and that's just silly (not to mention totally throwing off the general game structure at higher levels).

So...what clerics do already? :smalltongue:

No, I agree with this. I'll be doing just that.

[Yitzi]

So...what clerics do already? :smalltongue:

Well, how else are the characters going to come back to life when they die?

[Rogue Shadows]

Well, how else are the characters going to come back to life when they die?

They could not die...typically I find that not dying is an excellent way to not have to worry about how I plan to come back from the dead.

Also animate dead *is* a domain spell already...

:smalltongue:

[gkathellar]

There's a variant like this in ... Dragon #311, I think. (Wow. Having that on instant recall creeps me out a little.) It's done reasonably gracefully: spontaneous casting, domains give you spells known, you start with two domains and add more every 4th or 5th level, I think? Sovereign Speaker would break it in half, but Sovereign Speaker breaks a lot of spontaneous casters in half.

On the raise dead question:

I'm sure there's some domain out there with something in the Raise line on it. Though ... while I do tend to agree that not dying is a lot more exciting and fun than the whole resurrection thing, the game tends to assume that after a certain level players will treat death and petrification and all those other nasty little tricks as little more than time-wasters and obstacles.

Which is stupid, but you have to do some rebalancing of the death rules to work around that (see Fantasy Craft and Iron Heroes).

[Shadow Lord]

So...instead of 10 spells, each Domain grants, I dunno, 20? 30? 25-30 seems good. I like this; I'll do it.



Plus keep the extra domains, for a total of 6 domains total by level 18? Or keep it so it caps at 5?



This is what I was thinking, though those class features would be outlined in the domains, not the cleric class itself.

As for the cleric class itself...I'm feeling some bonus feats, certainly. I'm going to see if I can turn on my old laptop, as I once did something similar to this with a low-magic setting...



Kind of removes the idea of a cleric choosing a patron deity...

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait. You want to make a Cleric that gets 225-270 spells known?! WUT?! And they can cast them all spontaneously?! You've made the Cleric more powerful :smallfrown:

That is, unless I misread something...

[Ajadea]

I thought about this once. Every domain granted a handful (2-3) class abilities, and 3 or so spells per level. You got 2 domains, and a third at 10th that did not grant class features. That was pretty much it. The base chassis of a cleric had simple weapon proficiency, 4+Int skill points (Craft, Concentration, Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Profession, Spellcraft, others determined by domain), bad BAB, proficiency with their deity's favored weapon, light and medium armor proficiency...yeah, that's about it.

Oh, and there were a few universal spells: detect/read magic, cure/inflict line, resistance, virtue, bless, bane, bless/curse water, detect [alignment], consecrate/desecrate, owl's wisdom, eagle's splendor, bear's endurance, prayer, dispel magic, dimensional anchor, and miracle.

[Othniel Edden]

6*30 would be a 180, as opposed to the 50 he was originally proposing. A sorcerer only knows 40 spells at level 20, and these are scaled appropriately. This Cleric would known an equal number of 0-level spells as it would 9th level spells(Original purposal would leave him knowing 5 each level). Even as this was originally purposed this class would be high tier two at level 20 not tier five like like he originally thought. I think our natural reaction here was to try and power up to the original level of power because we like flexibility. Flexibility + Raw Power=Tier 1. This kinda creates a range for this class depending on which domains you select for anywhere between Low Tier 1 and High Tier 3, which is not a good thing.

Instead maybe we should look at a way of making domains scale properly. Like not getting 9th level spells on domains chosen late. Maybe no cap on your first two domains, 7th level on your third, 5th level on your fourth and 3rd level on your fifth. Also give like 2-3 spells per level till about 6th (which you'd only have 2) and 7th-9th would only get one spell per domain. At 20th level you would know, at most;

15 0-level, 15 1st, 15 2nd, 15 3rd, 12 4th, 12 5th, 6 6th, 3 7th, 2 8th 2 9th

That would give you 99 spells known, with most of them being low level spells. This should narrow things to a Tier 2 range.

[Shadow Lord]

6*30 would be a 180, as opposed to the 50 he was originally proposing. A sorcerer only knows 40 spells at level 20, and these are scaled appropriately. This Cleric would known an equal number of 0-level spells as it would 9th level spells(Original purposal would leave him knowing 5 each level). Even as this was originally purposed this class would be high tier two at level 20 not tier five like like he originally thought. I think our natural reaction here was to try and power up to the original level of power because we like flexibility. Flexibility + Raw Power=Tier 1. This kinda creates a range for this class depending on which domains you select for anywhere between Low Tier 1 and High Tier 3, which is not a good thing.

Instead maybe we should look at a way of making domains scale properly. Like not getting 9th level spells on domains chosen late. Maybe no cap on your first two domains, 7th level on your third, 5th level on your fourth and 3rd level on your fifth. Also give like 2-3 spells per level till about 6th (which you'd only have 2) and 7th-9th would only get one spell per domain. At 20th level you would know, at most;

15 0-level, 15 1st, 15 2nd, 15 3rd, 12 4th, 12 5th, 6 6th, 3 7th, 2 8th 2 9th

That would give you 99 spells known, with most of them being low level spells. This should narrow things to a Tier 2 range.

That's still pretty much saying the Sorcerer doesn't matter anymore; it lets the new Cleric have more spells known, and just slightly less spells per day. And they're plenty of broken spells at less than 7th level.

My advice would be to make a scaling class feature for each domain, and perhaps a scaling heal/harm effect at will. This would make every cleric different, take out the magic aspect of the Cleric class, and make the class altogether more balanced. It would also make the class more flavorful, as an added bonus.

[Maho-Tsukai]

A long time ago, I had a very ambitions project with a similar premise as this, except instead of domains I had "spheres" that had their own class features that went with them...eventually I wanted to sort EVERY spell in the game into a sphere, as the class was meant to replace every caster class in a game/setting. Of course, the project stalled and now sits abandon in my sig. It may give you some ideas, though, so feel free to take a gander at it if you want. It's the second project listed in my sig.

[motionmatrix]

Take a look at clerics in Pathfinder (by Paizo). They have several interesting powers. If you limited a cleric in 3.5 to only spells from domains (as you are suggesting) and gave them 5 or 6 domains from Pathfinder, they would land pretty nicely around Tier 3. But you are probably going to get a decent amount of clerics that follow ideals rather than a specific deity, since spell casting is so limited.

Extra Domain feat? allows you to get another one, perhaps not the powers but the spells?

[Shadow Lord]

Take a look at clerics in Pathfinder (by Paizo). They have several interesting powers. If you limited a cleric in 3.5 to only spells from domains (as you are suggesting) and gave them 5 or 6 domains from Pathfinder, they would land pretty nicely around Tier 3. But you are probably going to get a decent amount of clerics that follow ideals rather than a specific deity, since spell casting is so limited.

Extra Domain feat? allows you to get another one, perhaps not the powers but the spells?

No. Sir, These guys already are at Tier 1, still. They just get more choice on which spells to cast each day, now. Just look through the books and you can find more than six domains that have all of the broken cleric spells. And now you get to cast all of them at will whenever you want to, without preparing.

[Yitzi]

They could not die...typically I find that not dying is an excellent way to not have to worry about how I plan to come back from the dead.

And yet it does happen occasionally (at least it does when party-vs.-monster balance isn't too heavily weighted in favor of the players.)


Also animate dead *is* a domain spell already...

:smalltongue:

When someone wants to come back from the dead, I don't think that their body being animated as a mindless zombie is what they had in mind.

:smalltongue::smalltongue:

[DiBastet]

I did this once. It works very well, but you need to make some corrections:

First, you need to make sure that the spells in each domain are thematically and power-wise fitting to the domain and level. No fear of borrowing wizard or druid list and such.

Second, you should give each domain some abilities like pathfinder does. You could simply copy and paste the domain abilities and make some for your own domains.

Third, you should probably make domains exclusive or at the very least present in only two or three gods. As a rule, if each domain isn't exclusive, then you should take care that no two domains (except aligment ones) appear on different lists. So if a god has good, strenght, sun, healing and fire, you should never put str on another god with healing, sun or fire domains.


With this change you make each cleric a very unique character since there's really no party role that a cleric "should" do. It's very, very flavorful.

As a side note, you should incorporate the cleric list, at the very least conjuration (healing) spells into the sorc/wiz casting, because healing magic wouldn't be "thing of the gods" and just other spells.

As a second side note, on my games I added one more thing: You can auto-quicken, without higher level slots, your domain spells from up to one lower level than you can cast. So if you can cast 3rd levels, you can auto-quicken 2nd, 1st and 0 level spells. The cleric was a scary servant of the gods (and pelorites were incredible blasters).

[Rogue Shadows]

As a side note, you should incorporate the cleric list, at the very least conjuration (healing) spells into the sorc/wiz casting, because healing magic wouldn't be "thing of the gods" and just other spells.

Sounds like a plan, though I'm planning on moving (healing) spells over to either Evocation (on the idea that Evocation should get all energy types), or, more likely, back to Necromancy.

Where they belong.

:smallannoyed:

[Othniel Edden]

Alignment and Elemental domains are fairly dull, but most deities have them so they make a good showcase. Also, if you want to make sample builds I have a nice tables of deities all ready.


There's a variant like this in ... Dragon #311, I think. (Wow. Having that on instant recall creeps me out a little.) It's done reasonably gracefully: spontaneous casting, domains give you spells known, you start with two domains and add more every 4th or 5th level, I think? Sovereign Speaker would break it in half, but Sovereign Speaker breaks a lot of spontaneous casters in half.
Found it. Its called Evangelist (DR311 p52). It loses Heavy armor, a few skills, spontaneous conversion, and turn undead for spontaneous casting, and bonus domains at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level. A fairly elegant variation, but I'd be tempted to say its better than the cleric. Even at only being able to chose one domain a spell slot, it adds even more flexibility to its list. Still, not quite whats happening here.

[DiBastet]

Where they belong.

:smallannoyed:

Amen. Amen amen.

In my games we use it since, hell, since when? Since 3.0 came out. I remember i was like "WHATTAHELL!" when I saw it, and that was our first houserule, necromancy (healing) spells.

I want to know how you go with your project. In my games it went very very smooth.

[Rogue Shadows]

Amen. Amen amen.

In my games we use it since, hell, since when? Since 3.0 came out. I remember i was like "WHATTAHELL!" when I saw it, and that was our first houserule, necromancy (healing) spells.

I just...I do not understand the choice to put them in Conjuration. Why Conjuration? What, if anything, does channelling positive or negative energy with the intent to heal or harm, have to do with Conjuration?

That is very clearly either Evocation or Necromancy.


I want to know how you go with your project. In my games it went very very smooth.

It's going to be awhile before I DM - my group has three players (including me) who alternate between DMing. We just finished my campaign a month ago, so now DM2 is running Star Wars, then DM3 is going to do his thing with us running Vampire: The Maquerade for the first time.

Although...with our group and our DM, it'll be more Vampire: And Dresden Too.

[DiBastet]

Well, one of the players once said "what did you do to my casters... whyyyy???", so, if you ever get this question, let me know.

[Othniel Edden]

When you finally do get this up I'd like to request a few sample character's using this pantheon. I could fix it to DiBastet's recommendations if you see fit.

{table]Deity|AL|Areas of Concern|domains|fav. weapon
Agrela|NG|Life, Healing|Community, Good, Healing, Plant, Repose|Dagger
Dauros|LN| Justice, Law| Earth, Glory, Law, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Strength| Unarmed Strike or Great Sword
Fervus|CN|Wilds and chaos|Animal, Chaos, Destruction, Luck, Madness, Plant, Trickery|Spears or Daggers
Helia|LG|The Sun|Artifice, Fire, Glory, Good, Law, Nobility, Protection, Repose, Sun, War|Morningstar
Krolm|CN|Barbarians, the wilds, war|Animal, Chaos, Destruction, Liberation, Nobility, Strength, Travel, War|Axes or Clubs
Krypta|N|Death and Necromancy| Charm , Darkness, Death, Magic| Quarterstaff
Lunord|CG|Wind, moon, and money| Air, Chaos, Liberation, Protection, Travel, Weather|Staff
Grum-Grog|CE|vermin, plague, goblins||[/table]

[Rogue Shadows]

When you finally do get this up I'd like to request a few sample character's using this pantheon. I could fix it to DiBastet's recommendations if you see fit.

{table]Deity|AL|Areas of Concern|domains|fav. weapon
Agrela|NG|Life, Healing|Community, Good, Healing, Plant, Repose|Dagger
Dauros|LN| Justice, Law| Earth, Glory, Law, Liberation, Nobility, Protection, Strength| Unarmed Strike or Great Sword
Fervus|CN|Wilds and chaos|Animal, Chaos, Destruction, Luck, Madness, Plant, Trickery|Spears or Daggers
Helia|LG|The Sun|Artifice, Fire, Glory, Good, Law, Nobility, Protection, Repose, Sun, War|Morningstar
Krolm|CN|Barbarians, the wilds, war|Animal, Chaos, Destruction, Liberation, Nobility, Strength, Travel, War|Axes or Clubs
Krypta|N|Death and Necromancy| Charm , Darkness, Death, Magic| Quarterstaff
Lunord|CG|Wind, moon, and money| Air, Chaos, Liberation, Protection, Travel, Weather|Staff
Grum-Grog|CE|vermin, plague, goblins||[/table]

That's the Majesty pantheon!!!!

I love that game!

[Othniel Edden]

I had it in table form, for a game I'm running. I'm a total fan boy :smallbiggrin:

[Rogue Shadows]

I had it in table form, for a game I'm running. I'm a total fan boy :smallbiggrin:

I've made the Majesty pantheon for my campaigns a few times as well, though I usually tack on a few additional gods pulled in from other pantheons - Kothor and Rahab from Canaanite mythos; Bast from Egyptian; and Ran and Fenrir from Norse. As well as creating a direct goddess of magic, Nemosyne. Oh, and I make Orthos (one of the highest-level Vestiges from Tome of Magic) into a god, because every world needs some being floating around with the title "Sovereign of the Howling Dark."

Also, I thought Dauros was associated with money, not Lunord? His level 1 guild notes that he's god dual aspects of morality and economy, supports fair trade, and his temple is constructed from marble and gold.

[Othniel Edden]

Lunord is associated with trade through the road the wind and the seas.

[Hazzardevil]

I think that we go with the OP's suggested spells per day.
And have each cleric start with 3 Domains.
They then gain another domain every 3 levels?
Cast prepared, keep Turn undead and we give each domain 2 spells per level along with a scaling effect.
I think first we need to start coming up with Domain abilitys and filling in holes in the Core Deitys domains.

[Rogue Shadows]

I think that we go with the OP's suggested spells per day.
And have each cleric start with 3 Domains.
They then gain another domain every 3 levels?

That's insane. A cleric would end up with nine domains.


Cast prepared, keep Turn undead and we give each domain 2 spells per level along with a scaling effect.

I am bringing back preparing and droping spontaneous casting. Turn/rebuke is being ditched in favor of Pathfinders channel energy, which is, I feel, more versatile (and allows clerics without access to the Healing domain to still serve as healers when necessary). Each domain is also, yes, being expanded to have more spells.


I think first we need to start coming up with Domain abilitys and filling in holes in the Core Deitys domains.

I was just about to start this.

[Rogue Shadows]

Now I've been told not to double-post by the Mods That Be, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to post this and "bump" the thread without just doing that at the moment...

...well, anyway. I just finished how I'm seeing the Air domain working. It'll serve as a template for the rest.

Thoughts?

AIR DOMAIN
Granted Powers: Your deity grants you some dominion over the forces of elemental air.
Channel air (su): You gain the ability to channel energy that heals creatures with the (air) subtype and harms creatures with the (earth) subtype, as a cleric of equal level heals or harms living and undead beings with their channel energy ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Breath Weapon (su): At 5th level, you gain a breath weapon in the form of a of a 15-foot cone of dust and grit that you can use once every 1d4 rounds. It deals 1d8 damage per 3 cleric levels you possess, with a Reflex save for half. The save DC is equal to 10 + ½ your cleric level + your Constitution modifier.
Whirlwind (su): Beginning at 10th level, a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier, you can transform into a whirlwind for up to 1 round per 2 cleric levels you possess, as an air elemental. You must wait ten minutes between each transformation, however.
Flight (su): Beginning at 15th level, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed (perfect maneuverability).
Air Mastery: At 20th level, you gain the (air) subtype. Your base land speed (and thereby your base fly speed) increases by 10 feet, you get a +2 bonus to your Dexterity score, and you can create a displacement effect (as a cleric of equal level, but a supernatural ability) around your person at will. The displacement lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Air domain spells
0 – Daze, ghost sound, guidance
1 – Expeditious retreat, feather fall, obscuring mist
2 – Gust of wind, levitate, wind wall
3 – Fly, gaseous form, shout
4 – Air walk, clairaudience/clairvoyance, hallucinatory terrain
5 – Control winds, dimension door, sending
6 – Chain lightning, cloudkill, teleport
7 – Control weather, mass invisibility, project image
8 – Reverse gravity, screen, whirlwind
9 – Elemental swarm*, refuge, teleportation circle
*Cast as an air spell only.

[DiBastet]

Excelent. As a nitpick, is the breath weapon at will every turn?

Actually I like it. I wouldn't use three spells every level, but all in all this is very cute. I however feel that some spells may be displaced here and there (the problem with using 3 spells per level) and there will be probably some repetition with so many spells.

But all in all keep it up. It's going to be very cool.

[Rogue Shadows]

Excelent. As a nitpick, is the breath weapon at will every turn?

I...don't know. I cribbed it from the air mephit.

...oops, I missed the clause about how often it can be used. No, the weapon is once every 1d4 rounds.


Actually I like it. I wouldn't use three spells every level, but all in all this is very cute. I however feel that some spells may be displaced here and there (the problem with using 3 spells per level) and there will be probably some repetition with so many spells.

But all in all keep it up. It's going to be very cool.

It's a work in progress. This will have to be coupled with a complete overhaul of the spell system to try and balance it.

[Ajadea]

That looks familiar. I used a slightly different system, based off the Pathfinder Oracle, who got to choose abilities. The cleric I have written up somewhere or another got specific domain abilities at 1st from both domains of choice, then got to choose more abilities at 2nd level and every 3 levels afterwards, for a total of 7 abilities, selected from a list of 16 (8 from each domain).

Example domain: War

War

Good Save: Fortitude
Add Intimidate, Ride, and Swim to your list of class skills
Granted Ability: Battle Trained
Your base attack bonus rises to Average (as the Rogue), your cleric hit die rises to d8, and you gain proficiency with martial weapons, medium and heavy armor, and light and heavy shields.

Domain Powers:
Advanced Training:
Prerequisites: None
Gain a fighter bonus feat. The cleric must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. His cleric level -3 counts as his fighter level for the purpose of selecting feats with fighter level requirements. Unlike other domain powers, the cleric may take this power multiple times, selecting a new feat each time.

Battle Trance (Ex)
Prerequisites: Concentration 4 ranks
A cleric with this domain power can slip into a divine trance a certain number of times per day. While in this state, the cleric temporarily gains a +4 sacred/profane bonus to 1 physical stat (Str, Dex, or Con), and a +2 morale bonus on saves. If the cleric increases his Constitution the cleric’s hit points go up by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the trance when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While in a battle trance, a cleric may not activate magic items or cast spells (unless he has the Spell Trance domain power, see below).

A trance lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s Wisdom modifier. A cleric may release himself from the trance prematurely. After the trance ends, the cleric loses the trance modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter or the next 5 minutes, whichever is longer.

A cleric may enter a battle trance only once per encounter, and he may enter a trance once per day for every War domain power he has, including this one.

Divine Strike (Su)
Prerequisites: None
As a swift action, expend any amount of spell slots. You gain a bonus on all attack and damage rolls equal to the amount of spell levels you have expended until the beginning of your next turn. The bonus you receive cannot exceed your cleric level.

Fluid Trance (Ex)
Prerequisites: Concentration 4 ranks, Battle Trance, Spell Trance
You no longer have a spell failure chance while in a battle trance.

Muscle Power (Ex)
Prerequisites: Strength 13
You may calculate the bonus spells per day you receive off Strength rather than Wisdom.

Power through Power (Ex)
Prerequisites: Str 13, Muscle Power
You may calculate the save DCs of your spells with Strength rather than Wisdom.

Rally the Troops (Ex)
Prerequisites: Charisma 11+ or Intimidate 4 ranks
You may encourage your allies to fight harder than normal. Choose one of the Marshal’s major auras (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b): you may project it out to a range of 50+5 feet per War domain power you have, including this one. Every time you reactivate this power, you may select a different major aura to project.

The bonus granted by the aura is equal to 1+1/2 War domain powers you have. So a cleric with this domain power and two others has an aura with a range of 65 feet and a +3 bonus. Like a marshal’s aura, this ability can be dismissed as a free action. However, it still takes a standard action to activate this ability. Using Rally the Troops does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Spell Trance (Ex)
Prerequisites: Concentration 4 ranks, Battle Trance
A cleric with the Spell Trance domain power may cast spells while in a battle trance, however he suffers a 20% spell failure chance while doing so.

War Domain Granted Spells:
1: deathwatch, divine favor, magic stone, magic weapon
2: bull’s strength, cat’s grace, spiritual weapon, status
3: magic vestment, greater magic weapon, regroup (PHB2)
4: divine power, divine retaliation (PHB2), haste
5: righteous might, slay living, wall of stone
6: mass bull’s strength, transformation
7: destruction, mage’s sword
8: clenched fist


So yeah, an exclusively War domain cleric at 20th level gets to be what amounts to a (possibly illumian) barbarian/marshal with Arcane Strike, buffing spells, and worse BAB. Their first level ability is martial weapon proficiency and getting back the proficiencies and BAB they were stripped of. No, a cleric does not necessarily have a good Will save.

[Hazzardevil]

That's insane. A cleric would end up with nine domains.



Yes, but your presuming the cleric doesn't just prestige out, most clerics would.

[Rogue Shadows]

Yes, but your presuming the cleric doesn't just prestige out, most clerics would.

Take a look at the Air domain. Remember that I plan to do that for all domains.

Why wouldn't a player go Cleric 20 if they were getting nine domains?

[Agent_0042]

Suggestion? You can save yourselves a lot of trouble if you use these (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/3.5e_Spheres), either entirely or as a starting point.

[Rogue Shadows]

Suggestion? You can save yourselves a lot of trouble if you use these (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/3.5e_Spheres), either entirely or as a starting point.

Yes. Yes I could. Thanks!