Pimp my gish's spell list

[acid_ninja]

Looking for a bit of assistance. This is really the first time I've actually built a mid-level gish (usually go for skillmonkeys or beatsticks) and I want to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid.

Classes:
Warblade 2/Transmuter4/Eldritch Knight (Redux) 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57794)

Feats:
Combat Casting (PrC req)
Fell Weaken (PrC req, works well with class feature and flavors nicely with ToB as a nerve strike)
Power Attack (yeah)
Battle Cast (so I can wear mithril full plate)
Practiced Spellcaster
Knowledge Devotion
X

I'm not sure what to do with the last one. Leaning towards sudden empower so I'd have something else to do with that class feature (but its only once per encounter). Improved Initiative is always worth taking, and there's always martial study/stance or alacritous cogitation.

Manuevers (IL 8th):
Iron Heart Surge
Ruby Nightmare Blade
Sudden Leap
Steel Wind
Blood in the Water (Stance)
Action Before Thought
Moment of Perfect Mind

Most of my offensive punch is going to come from these - sudden leap to move into position for a FA or RNB if I can't. ABF to make up for bad Ref save and IHS because it rocks


Spells:

1st: 5+1
• Enlarge Person (Spec)
• Expeditious Retreat (Bonus)
• Shield
• Resinous Tar - BC
• Silent Image – Utility
• ????

2nd: 4+1
• Bladeweave
• Heroics
• Arcane Turmoil
• Alter Self
• Seeking Ray

3rd: 3+1
• Haste
• Dispel Magic
• ????

4th:
• Heart of Earth
• Mirror Image, Greater
• Black Tentacles

For the record, the rest of the party is pretty smashy and I'm the only arcane caster so far (but recruitment is still on). I might make a few changes based on party composition. Also, I plan on having a few other handy things for party buffing like create magic tattoo + lesser MM rod - extend.

Any suggestions for those last spell slots (I know I'll have more spells known but I'm looking for a usual 'loadout' and I'll swap a few things in an out as needed).

[Feytalist]

For the level 3 slot, displacement is always a nice one, if you don't have any other means of getting concealment. The level 1 could be used for a stupid little damage spell, or possibly critical strike or one of those other swift action spells. Blade of blood perhaps?

Can't help you with feat choice though.

[gbprime]

You want either

Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior) - allows you to blow a spell to gain a +X to hit and +Xd4 damage with all melee attacks that round.

or

Minor Shapeshift (Complete Mage) and dump Greater Mirror Image for Polymorph - Allows you to (among other things) use a free action each round to gain Temp HP equal to your character level.

(Now the temp HP from Minor Shapeshift don't stack with the Temp HP from Heart of Earth, but after HoE's temp HP expire, you'll be wanting more.)

So what'll it be? Inflict more damage or survive more damage? (The choice often comes down to how much healing your group has readily available.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The 1st level spell should probably be something that you can use to deliver Fell Weaken without sacrificing attacks, preferably Blades of Fire (SpC) with a Lesser Rod of Extend.

For your 3rd level spell, Heart of Water (CM) is pretty good, Greater Mighty Wallop (RotD) is great if you use a bludgeoning weapon, Dolorous Blow (SpC) is amazing if you already use an 18-20 threat weapon, Shivering Touch (FB) is so powerful it will get books thrown at you. If none of those look appealing, pick Vampiric Touch and get a Spell Storing weapon and a Lesser Rod of Maximize (those also work with Shivering Touch).

You have enough swift/immediate spells and maneuvers that Minor Shapeshift probably won't be all that useful, so I'd say probably Arcane Strike if you can afford the spell slots for it. Maybe get Leap Attack (CV) if you have the Jump ranks, or Combat Reflexes is always useful. Another option, assuming your DM is willing to cooperate, would be Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium, which improves any Enhancement bonus to an ability score from a transmutation spell you cast to be +2 higher than normal. Its original printing required Transmutation specialist and Spell Focus: Transmutation, but the Dragon Compendium printing only has Spell Focus: Transmutation as a requirement. There are similar specialist-themed feats in Complete Mage which require specialization in that school or Spell Focus in that school, so see if your DM will let you qualify for that via your specialization rather than using Spell Focus, since those spells wouldn't need a saving throw anyway. If you can get that, pick up Animalistic Power (PH2).

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ferocity of the Sanguine Rage is an awesome third level spell. Gives you a morale bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to half your CL. Also you can discharge it as standard action to get the benefit of True Strike spell.

From Dragon Magic.

[gbprime]

You have enough swift/immediate spells and maneuvers that Minor Shapeshift probably won't be all that useful, so I'd say probably Arcane Strike if you can afford the spell slots for it.

Arcane Strike requires a free action to activate, which eats up your swift/immediate action expenditure just like Minor Shapeshift. If one is a concern, then the other is as well.

You have to decide what you're doing with those free/swift/immediate actions... really fast spells, boosting your damage output, or boosting your Temp HP. You can't do them all at once, but having a selection of 2 out of the 3 ain't bad!

IMO, if you have lots of swift spells as well as Arcane Strike, you end up running out of spells monstrously fast. In that case, I would choose Minor Shapeshift over Arcane Strike.

[Glimbur]

Arcane Strike requires a free action to activate, which eats up your swift/immediate action expenditure just like Minor Shapeshift. If one is a concern, then the other is as well.

You have to decide what you're doing with those free/swift/immediate actions... really fast spells, boosting your damage output, or boosting your Temp HP. You can't do them all at once, but having a selection of 2 out of the 3 ain't bad!

Not true. Free actions, like talking, do not take a swift action to accomplish. There is no strict limit on how many free actions one can take in a round... hence, "free".

Read here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm).

Running out of spells is a very real threat with Arcane Strike.

[Dusk Eclipse]

free actions don't take your swift/immediate actions, they are a different set of actions.

Edit: Swordsage'd and with a citation.

[stainboy]

What does Arcane Recovery do, in your, your DM's, or Krimm Blackleaf's opinion? If Arcane Recovery can refresh an expended maneuver you can loop White Raven Tactics until you run out of 3rd+ level spell slots.

[gbprime]

Indeed. I must be undone by a local house rule. I stand (sit) corrected.

[dextercorvia]

(Now the temp HP from Minor Shapeshift don't stack with the Temp HP from Heart of Earth, but after HoE's temp HP expire, you'll be wanting more.)

I thought Temp HP stacked unless they were from the same source.

[Keld Denar]

Likewise. If you get temp HP from say...Aid, and temp HP from say...Hero's Feast, they are seperate circumstances.

Temp HP from Heart of Earth and from Minor Shapeshift stack. Temp HP from multiple applications of Minor Shapeshift won't stack.

[Coidzor]

Ferocity of the Sanguine Rage is an awesome third level spell. Gives you a morale bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to half your CL. Also you can discharge it as standard action to get the benefit of True Strike spell.

From Dragon Magic.

Ooo, get to be your very own personal bard. :smallbiggrin: Thanks for the heads up there.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Dragonblood get a free cl increase for free BTW..

[gbprime]

Likewise. If you get temp HP from say...Aid, and temp HP from say...Hero's Feast, they are seperate circumstances.

Temp HP from Heart of Earth and from Minor Shapeshift stack. Temp HP from multiple applications of Minor Shapeshift won't stack.

Wow, yeah, I'm having a bad case of house rules today. Thanks for the clarification everyone.

[acid_ninja]

I was already look at ferocity of sanguine rage and its pretty tasty, especially when combined with a full power attack (maybe using heroics to get improved power attack).

I do have a couple of wands of wraithstrike so my swift actions are largely going to be used to initiate or recover manuevers or use that wand (its built into a wand chamber on the sword). Plus, I'm avoiding polymorph's ridiculosity.

I might just end up taking alacritous cogitation and leaving that third level slot open.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Wand of Wraithstrike takes a standard action to activate:

Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

Spell Trigger
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

[Godskook]

free actions don't take your swift/immediate actions, they are a different set of actions.

Edit: Swordsage'd and with a citation.

Incorrect. Swift/immediate actions are not a different set of actions, they're a subset of the free action set, to which additional rules apply(Namely the 1/round rule). What you said is the equivalent of saying that penguins are a different set of creatures than birds. [/nitpick]

[Dusk Eclipse]

A Wand of Wraithstrike takes a standard action to activate:

Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

Spell Trigger
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Didn't the Rules Compendium, ruled that casting from a wand took the same type of action as the spell in the wand? I don't own the Rules Compendium so I can't check.


Incorrect. Swift/immediate actions are not a different set of actions, they're a subset of the free action set, to which additional rules apply(Namely the 1/round rule). What you said is the equivalent of saying that penguins are a different set of creatures than birds. [/nitpick]

I stand corrected then.

[Godskook]

I stand corrected then.

Sorry, that's my inner grammar nazi coming out.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Nah, don't worry. I didn't knew that was the case, so I learned something today.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Didn't the Rules Compendium, ruled that casting from a wand took the same type of action as the spell in the wand? I don't own the Rules Compendium so I can't check.

I guess you're right, I keep forgetting that book even exists:

"Activating a spell trigger item takes the same amount of time as the casting time of the spell that the item stores, but activating the item doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. You can’t activate a spell trigger item in the area of a silence spell or if unable to speak."

"When a preexisting core book or supplement differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is meant to take precedence."

[acid_ninja]

Yeah, I'm a scarred veteran of the wand of wraithstrike debate.