[3.5] In Game Metal Pricing

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone could help me out with a few costs/calculations. I will be the DM, so no “check with your DM” answers. :smallwink: Also, yes, I know about rule zero, and I can just pull any figure out of my butt that I like. :smalltongue:

So, I’m after the cost per pound of some in game materials.

The SRD lists the following:

Iron: 1sp/pound
Copper: 5sp/pound
Silver: 5gp/pound
Gold:50gp/pound
Platinum: 500gp/pound

...so, I was wondering if anyone can quote RAW, or reasonably extrapolate, the per pound price of the following metals (assume “ingots” of the metals, for trade, not worked into items):

Adamantine
Brass
Bronze
Electrum
Lead
Mithril
Palladium
Rhodium
Tin
Zinc
Cheers - T

[Varil]

Doesn't the DMG list price-per-pound for adamantine and mithril in the item creation section?

[TroubleBrewing]

If any of my players question the prices that I set, arbitrary though they may be, I ask them if they have the Appraise skill.

When they inevitably answer "no, we don't", I say "then you'll pay what the damn merchant is asking for".

[ClothedInVelvet]

You need prices? d20srd is here for you.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm

[kharmakazy]

Platinum: 500gp/pound


pound of platinum costs 50 pp. That seems odd.

[ClothedInVelvet]

If any of my players question the prices that I set, arbitrary though they may be, I ask them if they have the Appraise skill.

When they inevitably answer "no, we don't", I say "then you'll pay what the damn merchant is asking for".

I like this method best.

[Tvtyrant]

pound of platinum costs 50 pp. That seems odd.

Depends on how much the PPs weigh. 50 large pieces like old half-dollars would amount to that.

[Kumori]

pound of platinum costs 50 pp. That seems odd.

That shouldn't seem odd. By RAW, 50 coins of any type are 1 pound.

So I did some math for Adamantine and Mithril. I used the craft rules backwards on the armours from the PHB. Very inconsistent results:

Adamantine ranges from 68 to 145.333 gp/lb.
Mithril ranges from 29.333 to 176.19 gp/lb.

[kharmakazy]

I did some completely different (and useless) math!

At the close of the market today Platinum was 1738.00 an oz. 16 oz in a lb...

so 1 gp in DnD equates to $55.616 US.

[Thurbane]

You need prices? d20srd is here for you.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm
Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't give per pound prices?
So I did some math for Adamantine and Mithril. I used the craft rules backwards on the armours from the PHB. Very inconsistent results:

Adamantine ranges from 68 to 145.333 gp/lb.
Mithril ranges from 29.333 to 176.19 gp/lb.
Ah, I was afraid that might well be the case. Looks like I'm going to have to "wing it".

Mainly, it's in case I wanted to have ingots of these metals as trade goods, or have the party discover said ingots as part of a treasure hoarde.

[Kumori]

One thing you could do is to set a fixed value for the materials and replace the inconsistent DMG pricing with those values. I think I'll do that for my games...

[NNescio]

I did some completely different (and useless) math!

At the close of the market today Platinum was 1738.00 an oz. 16 oz in a lb...

so 1 gp in DnD equates to $55.616 US.

Of course due to the sheer abundance of gold in the D&D universe, it's going to be worth significantly less than in our world. [/handwave]

[kharmakazy]

I shall take my character sheet down to my local bank and make a withdraw. I will assuredly be given my own pristine room with the softest walls ever.

[kharmakazy]

The dnd economy is screwed anyhow.

100 gp worth of magic items is worth 50 gp.
100 gp worth of gold is worth 100 gp.
100 gp worth of pigs is worth 100 gp.

But of those 3, pigs are the only one that will earn you interest. :smallbiggrin:

[Crow]

The SRD lists the following:

Iron: 1sp/pound
Copper: 5sp/pound
Silver: 5gp/pound
Gold:50gp/pound
Platinum: 500gp/pound

...so, I was wondering if anyone can quote RAW, or reasonably extrapolate, the per pound price of the following metals (assume “ingots” of the metals, for trade, not worked into items):

Adamantine
Brass
Bronze
Electrum
Lead
Mithril
Palladium
Rhodium
Tin
Zinc
Cheers - T

Thurbane, I am here to help, though I can't help with all of them. Start with the basis that 3.5 sets where 50 coins of whatever material is 1 pound. (You can see that in the copper/silver/gold/platinum weights)

Brass - Generally around 2/3 copper, the rest zinc, but varies wildly. So around 3sp 8cp per pound.

Bronze - About 85% copper, 15% tin (see tin). 6sp 1cp per pound.

Electrum - Naturally occuring proportions varied wildly, but most coinage was close to 50/50 gold/silver, so 27gp 5sp per pound.

Lead - About 1/4 the price of copper, so 1sp 5cp per pound.

Palladium - About half of gold's value, I'll go 25gp/pound.

Rhodium - Generally about 15% pricier than Platinum. Go 575gp/pound.

Tin - Believe it or not, about 150% higher than copper. So 12sp 5cp per pound.

Zinc - About 1/4 the value of copper, so 1sp 5cp per pound.

[IthroZada]

The dnd economy is screwed anyhow.

100 gp worth of magic items is worth 50 gp.


The other 50gp is a service charge. Materials + (time, experience, feats, tools) = 100gp

[kharmakazy]

The other 50gp is a service charge. Materials + (time, experience, feats, tools) = 100gp

Sure, but if I then kill you and take your 100 gp magic item, I can still only sell it for 50gp. Then someone else can buy it for 100 gp, then when they sell it they will get 50gp.

Same for non-magic items too.

[Thurbane]

Thurbane, I am here to help, though I can't help with all of them. Start with the basis that 3.5 sets where 50 coins of whatever material is 1 pound. (You can see that in the copper/silver/gold/platinum weights)

Brass - Generally around 2/3 copper, the rest zinc, but varies wildly. So around 3sp 8cp per pound.

Bronze - About 85% copper, 15% tin (see tin). 4sp 5cp per pound.

Electrum - Naturally occuring proportions varied wildly, but most coinage was close to 50/50 gold/silver, so 27gp 5sp per pound.

Lead - About 1/4 the price of copper, so 1sp 5cp per pound.

Palladium - About half of gold's value, I'll go 25gp/pound.

Rhodium - Generally about 15% pricier than Platinum. Go 575gp/pound.

Tin - Believe it or not, about 150% higher than copper. So 12sp 5cp per pound.

Zinc - About 1/4 the value of copper, so 1sp 5cp per pound.
Thanks Crow, that's exactly the type of thing I was looking for. :smallsmile:

[NecroRick]

I did some completely different (and useless) math!

At the close of the market today Platinum was 1738.00 an oz. 16 oz in a lb...

so 1 gp in DnD equates to $55.616 US.

Ah, but if you're in Eberron, 1gp = 1 days work from a barrister. (Source: vague recollection of something that might have been in Sharn City of Towers)

Given the real world rates of barristers, either they're underpaid in Eberron, or the economics is wonky. As someone who understands Boolean logic, I believe both are likely true...

Alternate explanation: in D&D most disagreements are settled by fireball not lawsuit, so the damand for barristers is correspondingly lower

[IthroZada]

Sure, but if I then kill you and take your 100 gp magic item, I can still only sell it for 50gp. Then someone else can buy it for 100 gp, then when they sell it they will get 50gp.

Same for non-magic items too.

That's just because the shop owner wants to make a profit. You don't sell a used car for full price either.

[Crow]

I messed up on bronze. Should be 6sp 1cp per pound.

[kharmakazy]

That's just because the shop owner wants to make a profit. You don't sell a used car for full price either.

Except for pigs. Which you buy for 3g, and then sell for 3g. Trade goods all keep their value. You aren't actually arguing that the economy isn't broken are you? When you can break ladders and sell them for more than you bought them. When it costs 1 gp to craft 3 gp?

[IthroZada]

Except for pigs. Which you buy for 3g, and then sell for 3g. Trade goods all keep their value. You aren't actually arguing that the economy isn't broken are you? When you can break ladders and sell them for more than you bought them. When it costs 1 gp to craft 3 gp?

The economy is certainly broken, I'm just saying that the magic item prices are simply the world accounting for services, profits, etc.

[kharmakazy]

The economy is certainly broken, I'm just saying that the magic item prices are simply the world accounting for services, profits, etc.

If it were only magic items that did that devaluation I would tend to agree. Unfortunately mundane items depreciate exactly the same. It would actually make more sense that way.

I realize it must have been done for simplicity sake, but crafting a rod of earthly blowing upness shouldn't devaluate the same as crafting a bucket.

[Dertarr]

Hi,

My players are running now through «The root of all evil» adventure in Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting. There they have collected and mined more than 50 pounds of mithral. So the question of how much mithral costs has become for me quite important.

I've extrapolated the cost of mithral to be 92 gp per pound. Here are my calculations.

First we must remember how «Craft» skill functions: the craftsman prepares raw material that costs 33% of the crafted items’ listed price. Then she spends some time working with the material to produce the item. This spent time costs about 17% of the listed price. Taxes, fees required to enter the market and reseller’s profit make the rest 50% of the price.

So,
Raw material for mithral shirt weights 10 lbs and costs 366 gp (33% × 1100 gp, 36.6 gp/lb)
Raw material for elven chain weights 20 lbs and costs 1383 gp (33% × 4150 gp, 69.2 gp/lb)
Raw material for mithral large shield weights 5 lbs and costs 340 gp (33% ×1020 gp, 70 gp/lb)
Raw material for full plate weights 25 lbs and costs 3500 gp (33% × 10500 gp, 175 gp/lb)
Raw material (pure mithral) for any other object but armor costs 333 gp per pound (33% × 500 gp × 2).
I intentionally ignore «masterworkness» of mithral armor since «masterwork» assumes using material of better quality (that very philosophers’ «masterwork component»).

To solve the problem of price range on mithral I have the following idea.

Mithral shirt is not made completely of mithral. Light padded armor makes 6 pounds of its weight. These linings of leather or fur help softening bludgeoning blows and are worthless. The rest is pure mithral – thin woven mithral strings, weight 4 pounds.
(33% × 1100 gp) ÷ 4 lbs = 91.6 gp.

Elven chain has 15 pounds of pure mithral in form of linked rings. The other 5 pounds are linings for metal not to rub the skin. And to soften bludgeoning blows too.
(33% × 4150 gp) ÷ 15 lbs = 92.2 gp.

Mithral large shield has 3.7 pounds of pure mithral. Belts, coat of arms plates and other pieces make the rest of its weight.
(33% × 1020 gp) ÷ 3.7 lbs = 91.9 gp.

Full plate has 17 pounds of pure mithral. Light padded armor makes the other 8 pounds of its weight. Any suit of heavy armor has some padded material for metal not to rub and tear skin. But most expensive part is not mithral but precious stones, shiny golden patterns and other jewelry, without which it is unthinkable to craft such a magnificent suit of armor for the most noble of men!
92 gp × 17 lbs = 1564 gp
Jewelry cost: (33% × 10500 gp) - 1564 gp = 1936 gp.

In my campaign I made any other item of mithral but armor to cost 150 gp per pound of that items’ original weight. (DMG says it to be 500 gp/pound).
(92 gp ÷ 33%) ÷ 2 = 138 gp. Plus some jewelry work to round up => 150 gp.

It is the armor where mithral shows to be the most effective: better armor check penalty, reduced weight, lighter category, lower arcane failure chance... And a mithral long sword is just a masterwork long sword that weights 2 lbs less. I don’t think that someone would bother making mithral long sword, so it is not a big problem to reduce price from 500 gp to 150 gp per pound. But if someone doesn’t like that adjusting of prices listed in DMG, he can always assume, that making any other item of mithral needs lot of expensive jewelry work worth 350 gp per pound of weight, to a total of 500 gp per pound.

[Eurus]

That's very handy, Dertarr. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the explanation that Mithral Full Plate is inherently made with huge amounts of gaudy/expensive ornamentation, but it is a significant outlier in price compared to weight, so who knows.

[jwduncan79]

for most of the metals, such as brass, tin, zinc, etc. that exist in the real world we live in, the easiest way to decide on a price per pound would be to do some google-foo and compare the price of those metals to iron and work out a conversion factor (you can use excel to just do a quick multiple factor to use).
As an example, using this method, I would get a rough value for Zinc of approximately 25x the cost of iron/lb or around 25 sp/lb for Zinc.

For Adamantine, I would use Tungsten as a rough analogue, since Tungsten is the hardest metal known to mankind at the present time, and it has the highest melting point, giving a rough price of around 350 x the cost of iron/lb.

For Mithral, I'd ratio the price of iron or steel to titanium - titanium alloys have a weight of roughly 45% compared to iron/steel alloys, which makes it a good analogue. Titanium has a cost of right around 55 x the cost of iron/lb.
Again, these are rough approximations, but they can give you a reasonable starting position that isn't just pulling random numbers out of your nether regions and smearing it on the page.

[jwduncan79]

I did some completely different (and useless) math!

At the close of the market today Platinum was 1738.00 an oz. 16 oz in a lb...

so 1 gp in DnD equates to $55.616 US.

except that precious metals are valued in troy ounces, which are approximately 14.5 troy ounces in lb, so your gp/$ conversion would actually come in at approximately $61.369 US