Rogue help.

[SolusAuvryrahel]

I'm seeking help leveling up a character of mine, we are sticking to 3.5 mostly, but my DM will allow other classes on approval.

He is a human Rogue 6 currently, but I am looking for another class to switch to. Although I am trying to keep sneak attack, or something similar.

I would like him to be more of a fighting rouge and less sneaky, but that is always a plus.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[tyckspoon]

Unearthed Arcana might have the solution for you- Sneak Attack Thug Fighter. Reproduced for your convience (they're open game material, so you can go check them over at d20srd.)


Class Skills
Add the following skills to the fighter's class skill list: Bluff, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sleight of Hand. The thug gains skill points per level equal to 4 + Int modifier (and has this number x4 at 1st level).

Class Features
The thug has all the standard fighter class features, except as noted below.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Thugs are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor.

And the Sneak Attack variant simply trades the Fighter Bonus Feat feature for the Rogue's Sneak Attack progression. So you end up with a full BAB Sneak Attacker who doesn't have the Rogue's more obscure skills. If you want to get some of those back, you could mix it with multiclassing standard Rogue as well until you have those other skills at the point you think they should be.

Edit: That would be the simple way to do it, at least. If you're looking for something more powerful or perhaps some prestige class options, well, we can find 'em, but I at least will need some more time to go bookdiving. Rogue stuff isn't my strong point.

[acid_ninja]

If you're already a rogue 6 its a bit late but swashbuckler from CW + the daring outlaw feat (from same of CAdv?) turns you into a full BAB, d10 hit die class with a couple of neat extras (Int to damage) and lets you keep full SA. Retrain maybe?

[only1doug]

Swashbuckler for the next 3 levels then daring outlaw.

Then Swashbuckler or rogue to taste.

[excruciarch]

Good prcs for rogues:
1. Invisible blade (CW) - dagger sneak as a rogue, int.mod for AC, uncanny feint (free action), full BAB. Don't be alarmed by entry requirements. Far shot and PBS are useful for throwing weapons either. (With a human you can take IB levels after the 5th level).
2. Assassin (DMG) - Sneak attack, death attack, spells. For evil rogues.
3. Shadowlord (UE) - good assortment of spells, shadow pounce! and other tasty abilities.

If you're a human rogue I recommend asking your DM whether you can retrain.

[HappyBlanket]

Do you have Craven yet? That'll net you some extra damage on your sneak attacks no matter what class you take.

Also: if you take levels of Swashbuckler (which I also recommend), get Daring Outlaw. As long as you take levels of Swashbuckler, you'll retain Sneak Attack progression as if you were a full Rogue.

Thug Fighter also increases your hit points and your Sneak Attack, but it doesn't do anything else. As a rogue, I'm guessing that you have high Int, and would therefore get a better deal out of Swashbuckler 3 than Thug 2.

[Username_too_lo]

I'm always partial to crossing Rogues and Warlocks.

Get to add sneak attack to eldritch blast (touch attack ac only) plus you can buy Leaps and Bounds (+6 to jump and tumble) and Beguiling Influence (+6 to intimidate, bluff and diplomacy). Plus, use magic device.

[Metahuman1]

I'd start with adding a dip into barbarian, taking spirit lion totem and whirling frenzy alternative class features. Adding swashbuckler is also good with the daring outlaw feat.


I personally think Rouge 4/swashbuckler 15/Barbarian 1 with daring outlaw and then the TWF feat path, and maybe travel devotion, then one or two tricks like a few bags of marbles + quick draw and a ring of blinking too get sneak attack with out sneaking up on the target, flanking, or beating them in initiative, would be fun to play. Maybe retain 2 of those rouge levels too the barbarian level and one level of swashbuckler, and perhaps retrain some feats and add flaw for bonus feats as needed.

[SleepyShadow]

It is a little difficult to help you without knowing what books are allowed and which are banned, but I will throw a few ideas out.

Rogue 7/Fighter 2/Shadow Dancer 1/Assassin 10: This build gives you plenty of sneak attack, decent BAB, and the rather potent Hide in Plain Sight ability. In addition, it is all core, so it will be legal regardless of the campaign.

Rogue 6/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Night Song Enforcer 6: This build grants many useful abilities, excellent BAB, and once again advances your sneak attack damage. Plus if your DM allows it, taking the Swashbuckler's alternate Seduction class feature is always entertaining :smallbiggrin:

Rogue 6/Cleric 4/Divine Trickster 10: Always an interesting choice, this build allows for rather decent casting, some sneak attack, and the handy ability to expend uses of Turn Undead to sneak attack undead. Divine Trickster would require the DM's approval, however. Here is the link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623145#post9623145)

Rogue 6/Unarmed Sword Sage 4/Shadow Sun Ninja 10: This has quite a bit of potential. It does not advance your sneak attack, however in exchange you gain a host of potent class abilities, as well as many maneuvers and stances.

[FMArthur]

If you can get free movement or Pounce in any way, Swift Ambusher can make you a pretty ferocious precision damage machine by making Rogue levels advance Skirmish as if they were Scout levels in addition to your Sneak Attack. Skirmish isn't much normally, but Improved Skirmish bumps that up. Both Swift Ambusher and Improved Skirmish are from Complete Scoundrel. You'd have 6d6 precision damage on your attacks at your level if you went that route.

[SolusAuvryrahel]

Thank you for the many suggestions, I will look into them some more and see which one would be the best in the party we have.

[gorfnab]

Here is a Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233) that may be of use to you.

[Curmudgeon]

For a sneaky Rogue the usual answer is a dip into Shadowdancer. For a martial Rogue I recommend a dip into Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric). This may seem like an odd suggestion, but there's good reason for my advice.

Clerics normally get 2 domains, and 2 + INT mod skill points per level. Cloistered Clerics get Knowledge as a bonus domain, and 6 + INT mod skill points per level. Clerics can trade domains for their associated domain feats (see the rules in Complete Champion), and Knowledge Devotion is an excellent choice for a Rogue. If you put ranks into the 6 Knowledge skills related to the various D&D creature types, you'll get bonuses to attack and damage everything in the game. So take 1 level of Cloistered Cleric and trade Knowledge for Knowledge Devotion.

You'll probably need to do a little bit of retroactive work for this choice, since the Education feat (makes all Knowledges class skills for all of your classes ─ rather than just a benefit of the Knowledge domain, that you won't have after trading it away anyway :smallwink:) can only be taken at 1st level. The feat retraining rules in Player's Handbook II tell you how to alter feat choices at earlier levels.

Remember those 2 other domains you get? You can choose a domain like Travel and swap it for Travel Devotion. That feat lets you move your speed as a swift action, for 10 consecutive rounds. If you've got a CHA of 12 your Clerical turn undead attempts will let you use Travel Devotion for 3 encounters daily. Being able to move and full attack really helps you be a better martial Rogue. The final domain can be something like Celerity (boosts your base speed by +10') or Pride (lets you reroll any 1 on a saving throw, once per die). Fate (gives you uncanny dodge) makes an interesting choice, because you can combine that with the Uncanny Bravery ACF (Dragon Magic, page 14). Uncanny Bravery swaps your Rogue 8 improved uncanny dodge for bravery vs. fear effects, which you'll want if you take HappyBlanket's excellent advice to gain the Craven feat. Fate replaces that Rogue 8 lost ability at (Cloistered) Cleric 1. Since you're looking for a different class at level 7, you'll actually get improved uncanny dodge earlier than usual.

Also for some retroactive martial improvement, the Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) lets you deal sneak attack with ½ the normal dice (but full Craven bonus) whenever you flank a target normally immune to sneak attack. That replaces trap sense at Rogue 3.

After the Cloistered Cleric dip, I recommend going back to Rogue at least through Rogue 10. At that level you can pick up Skill Mastery, and master (be able to "take 10" always) a bunch of skills. Pick those 6 Knowledges and you'll guarantee your bonus to attack and damage everything; no rolling required. (With an item like a Headband of Intellect and the Savvy Rogue feat I can usually guarantee the maximum +5 to attack and damage vs. everything by about level 14. That's effectively 1 higher than full BAB to attack, which is pretty sweet, martially speaking. :smallbiggrin:)

If you want more Cleric levels for some spellcasting assistance, look into the Sacred Outlaw feat; that stacks your Rogue and Cleric levels for sneak attack dice and undead turning attempts, so you can maintain full sneak attack damage even when gaining more spells.