Archery options

[Kumori]

Hello everyone! I'm in the brainstorming stage of creating a new character for 3.5 campaign. I intend to play as a Half-Elven Archer firing away from atop a Giant Eagle mount. Problem is, last time I played an archer was my first ever D&D character, so it was massively sub-par. I don't want to repeat that and so I am looking for some suggestions. I'm not looking for cheese and I'm not looking for super-optimized. Just looking for some general advice on mounted archers. Any thoughts? What direction would you go?

Edit: Forgot to mention, there are no campaign details yet. So level, stats, available sourcebooks and such are not set.

[GodGoblin]

Im not sure if its really what you want but the suggestion for archers is often to use either Cleric or Psychic Warrior, are you against those? I know some people like to use a more mundane type of archer but those are often the most effective paths.

[Kumori]

Im not sure if its really what you want but the suggestion for archers is often to use either Cleric or Psychic Warrior, are you against those? I know some people like to use a more mundane type of archer but those are often the most effective paths.

At this point I'm just doing research, so I'm not really against anything. I assume a cleric archer would focus on buffing himself to make the arrows more effective, probably take zen archery as well. Psionics I haven't really touched too much. How would a psychic warrior archer work?

[Darrin]

One of archery's biggest weakness is the low damage output makes it difficult to keep up with the PA/Leap Attack/Shock Troopers. Skirmish damage can help, but it scales very, very slowly. With the right PrCs, though, you can advance your skirmish damage at roughly the same rate as a Rogue's sneak attack (and pick up some sorcerer casting along the way):

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6 +1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6 +1/4d6 +3.
7) Dragon Devotee 1.
8) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 3d6 +1/5d6 +3
9) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Manyshot. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
10) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6 +1/6d6 +3
11) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 5d6 +1/7d6 +3
12) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Gr. Manyshot. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
13) Unseen Seer 3.
14) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 6d6 +1/8d6 +3
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot.
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 7d6 +1/9d6 +3
17) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 7d6 +2/9d6 +4
18) Ranger 4. Feat: Penetrating Shot
19) Ranger 5. Skirmish 8d6 +2/10d6 +4
20) Spellsword 1. (BAB +17, Sorcerer CL 6)


Here's a Swift Hunter build with full BAB, using the Simple Fighter variant (SRD/UA) to get into Highland Stalker. Slightly better Skirmish damage than a Scout 20, better BAB, and gets another iterative attack. (Note: This works really well with Mystic Ranger from Dragon #336)

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Ranger 3. Feat: Precise Shot. Bonus: Endurance
4) Ranger 4.
5) Simple Fighter. Sneak Attack 1d6
6) H.Stalker 1. Feat: Imp. Rapid Shot
7) H.Stalker 2. Skirmish 1d6
8) H.Stalker 3.
9) H.Stalker 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6 +2.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6 +2.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Gr.Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6 +3.
13) H.Stalker 5.
14) H.Stalker 6. Skirmish 4d6 +3
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Imp. Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6 +3/6d6 +5
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6 +3/7d6 +5
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Penetrating Shot, Bonus: Imp. Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6 +4/7d6 +6
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Skirmish 6d6 +4/8d6 +6

And of course the usual advice: Get the Splitting enhancement ASAP. Make sure your middle name is Hank because Hank's Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) is awesomesauce on toast. Be an elf, worship Sehanine Moonbow, dip Cloistered Cleric to pick up the Elf Domain, Travel Devotion, and Knowledge Devotion.

[GodGoblin]

Ooh they are cool builds, look in my sig for my cleric archer character. The idea is to DMM quicken true strikes and other buffs, later Im aiming for DMM Persist for 24 hour buff spells like Divine Might or even Owls wisdom as Zen archery is one of my feats.

For the Psychic warrior route im not sure on the specifics this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11358250) may have some tips even though it includes pathfinder. From what I understand its a mix of using Psionic Shot and the standard PsiWar Expantion powers for extra damage output.

Out of the box I believe PsyWar is the easiest way to be effective but if you enjoy more complex builds try Cleric or one of Darrin's builds :smallsmile:

[Cieyrin]

I don't think you need to necessarily Zen Archery if you use Divine Agility to pump your Dex to silly levels. Owl's Insight is Druid-only, so that's kinda moot. You'll need some Dex to meet feat requirements, anyways.

[Eloel]

There's also the Soulbow route if you want. Not exactly an archer, but similar enough.

[BillyBobJoe]

I happen to love Cragtop Archer. My only archery focused character was a Wizard/Arcane Archer (PF)//Ranger/Cragtop Archer. Yay for shooting Antimagic Field Arrows at a town a mile away!

[MesiDoomstalker]

And of course the usual advice: Get the Splitting enhancement ASAP. Make sure your middle name is Hank because

I am also making an Archer (though not worrying about effectivness, long story its unneccesary for my group), and keep hearing about this Splitting enhancement but I don't have the book (I think). Can anyone tell me what it costs and the requisite spell(s)?

[Cieyrin]

I am also making an Archer (though not worrying about effectivness, long story its unneccesary for my group), and keep hearing about this Splitting enhancement but I don't have the book (I think). Can anyone tell me what it costs and the requisite spell(s)?

Splitting is a +3 weapon special ability from Champions of Ruin that splits each arrow shot into two shots, both using the same attack roll, I think. The requisite spells I believe are also in CoR.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Splitting is a +3 weapon special ability from Champions of Ruin that splits each arrow shot into two shots, both using the same attack roll, I think. The requisite spells I believe are also in CoR.

Ok thank you. I definatly don't have Champions of Ruin unfortunatly :smallfrown: can anyone look up the requisite spells for me? Pretty please with sugar on top! :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Ok thank you. I definatly don't have Champions of Ruin unfortunatly :smallfrown: can anyone look up the requisite spells for me? Pretty please with sugar on top! :smallbiggrin:

It's "Arrowsplit", a level 3 Ranger/Assassin spell. A very good one, at that, better than the Splitting-property but obviously not available to non-casters.


Basically though, good ways to be an archer:
- Stack flat damage (Knowledge Devotion [CChamp], Weapon Specialization/Ranged Weapon Mastery [PHBII], Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat), Strength-bonuses, weapon enhancements, etc.) and on-hits on a multi-attack chassis (Rapid Shot, Targetteer Fighter's Arrow Swarm [DR310], Barbarian's Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), Tome of Battle maneuvers "Dancing Mongoose", "Raging Mongoose" & "Time Stands Still" and various Haste-variants)
- Stack precision damage with enablers (Swift Hunter [CScoundrel], Rogue, Factotum, etc.)
- Stack spell-based boosts and spell effects on arrows (Cleric, Wizard, all spellcasters and manifesters, soulmelders and company can do this)

Some basic advice exists in Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

[King Atticus]

I'm not going to give specific build advice because Darrin has that covered pretty nicely. I'll just say that feats are your friends as an archer. A couple I would suggest. If you go the skirmisher route; I would try to fit in ranged skirmisher (lets you use skirmish out to 60 ft) and plunging shot (adds a d6 if higher by 30+ft than enemy). If you go Psychic Warrior; I'd try to add Psionic shot and greater psionic shot (adds 2d6 & 4d6 respectively when you expend your psionic focus) & maybe if you have extra feats to burn, not likely, psionic meditation (lets you focus as a move action) and see if there is a way, I don't know of one, to get your eagle improved flight to step up its maneuverability, because at good it can hover. I know this is crazy feat intensive, especially with all the prerecs but I'm just throwin' stuff out there.

[Urpriest]

I'm not going to give specific build advice because Darrin has that covered pretty nicely. I'll just say that feats are your friends as an archer. A couple I would suggest. If you go the skirmisher route; I would try to fit in ranged skirmisher (lets you use skirmish out to 60 ft) and plunging shot (adds a d6 if higher by 30+ft than enemy). If you go Psychic Warrior; I'd try to add Psionic shot and greater psionic shot (adds 2d6 & 4d6 respectively when you expend your psionic focus) & maybe if you have extra feats to burn, not likely, psionic meditation (lets you focus as a move action) and see if there is a way, I don't know of one, to get your eagle improved flight to step up its maneuverability, because at good it can hover. I know this is crazy feat intensive, especially with all the prerecs but I'm just throwin' stuff out there.

You could also have the Eagle take the Hover feat.

[King Atticus]

You could also have the Eagle take the Hover feat.

Oh...oh yeah...just do that. Man, I miss the obvious stuff sometimes. :smallbiggrin:

[GodGoblin]

How are you planning on getting the eagle btw? Wild cohort? Normal cohort? (If its Int is enough) or through animal companion levels?

[Cieyrin]

How are you planning on getting the eagle btw? Wild cohort? Normal cohort? (If its Int is enough) or through animal companion levels?

Giant Eagles are Magical Beasts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagleGiant.htm), so I can only assume regular Leadership, since Wild Cohorts don't cover those. Not without shenanigans, like Beast Heart Adept or Totem Companion.

Alternatively, there's probably a Faerunian PrC that grants you one, now that I think about it a bit more...

[GodGoblin]

Ah yeah the Skylord PrC is one, you meditate on a mountain and an eagle chooses you. Cliched but awesome!

[Kumori]

How are you planning on getting the eagle btw? Wild cohort? Normal cohort? (If its Int is enough) or through animal companion levels?

My DM has a thing he calls his "5 point system". It's very arbitrary, but allows some extra bonuses/customization. I'll likely be getting it through that, through regular leadership, or just plain buying and training it.

[randomhero00]

Didn't PF fix archery and crossbows? (I haven't played mind you) IIRC they are waaaay nicer. And if you don't mind magic go into their arcane archer. Who is much better now.

Look for the alternate rules for fighters, rogues, and rangers.

ps huh, is there a reason I keep thinking you mean pathfinder? I'm relooking and it doesn't seem PF was ever mentioned...sorry