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consal
2011-07-14, 08:24 AM
Because it's necessary that we apply physics to D&D 3.5e so we can rid the world of these doe-eyed anthropomorphic feline pests.

Teleport Backwards in Time!

Let's start with special relativity concerning event propagation. All causal mechanisms travel at the speed of light, while teleport is instantaneous. Hence, at the frame you arrive, you have in fact traveled back in time.

Back to the Future, Equines, and You

Have an arbitrarily long row of horses lined up side-by-side. Be able to mount and dismount as free actions (as granted by a certain DC check). Mount one horse, dismount from the other side, and the mount the next in line--rinse and repeat. Do so an arbitrarily large amount of times within an small timespan. You begin to approach an enormous fraction of the speed of light, dilating time, and sending you hurtling into the future.

Post more!

bigstipidfighte
2011-07-14, 02:41 PM
I'm going to have to dispute your first entry Consal. I submit that spells with a listed duration of "instantaneous" actually take a second or two to resolve. Otherwise it would be impossible to see a Fireball go off, let alone evade one. But I digress...

Ending Time Itself

First off, find a way to Persist a Time Stop. I'd recommend Divine Metamagic for Bible thumpers, or the Anima Mage prestige class if you're an Arcanist. Now Time is stopped for 24 hours, so go ahead and rest, prepare spells, cast another Persistent Time Stop.

Disclaimer: May not work, depending on the actual definition of a "day" in D&D. Pretty sure you get X/day abilities back after resting, but I could be wrong.

SamBurke
2011-07-14, 02:44 PM
At the very leas,t you could plane shift to another non-stopped plane.

Ravens_cry
2011-07-14, 03:02 PM
With greater teleport and travel to other planets, plus relativity, even saying it takes 6 seconds means time travel.
If Greater Creation allows you to create specific isotopes, Greater Creation " 52 (or more) kilograms Uranium 235", or better yet get a Simulacrum of yourself to do it, you can be the Evil Atomic Bomber What Bombs at Midnight, or whatever other time strikes you as most dramatic. Even if it creates a mixture of the isotopes, researching a spell to separate them wouldn't be too hard and a gun type nuclear device is dead simple engineering.

randomhero00
2011-07-14, 03:46 PM
With greater teleport and travel to other planets, plus relativity, even saying it takes 6 seconds means time travel.
If Greater Creation allows you to create specific isotopes, Greater Creation " 52 (or more) kilograms Uranium 235", or better yet get a Simulacrum of yourself to do it, you can be the Evil Atomic Bomber What Bombs at Midnight, or whatever other time strikes you as most dramatic. Even if it creates a mixture of the isotopes, researching a spell to separate them wouldn't be too hard and a gun type nuclear device is dead simple engineering.

I can do you one better :) create a lot of anti matter. That's it. Without containment it'll go off on its own with perfect efficiency creating/releasing the most energy possible. With the amount you could theoretically create you could destroy a quarter or so of the galaxy (assuming DnD exists in a galaxy).

Ravens_cry
2011-07-14, 04:13 PM
I can do you one better :) create a lot of anti matter. That's it. Without containment it'll go off on its own with perfect efficiency creating/releasing the most energy possible. With the amount you could theoretically create you could destroy a quarter or so of the galaxy (assuming DnD exists in a galaxy).
Unfortunately, it breaks one of the rules of Major Creation (which, unless it says otherwise, functions like minor creation)

Material Component

A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create
I would like to see you hold a piece of antimatter. And considering what it costs to create mere atoms of the stuff, I never bought the idea that eschew material components feat works for this.
Also, you would need an insanely high CL to destroy a quarter of the galaxy this way, even if it worked. Oh, a standard wizard would blow up a good chunk of the planet, certainly destroy all life on it, but space is big. Very big. And the inverse square law tends to take care of such explosions.

Zaq
2011-07-14, 08:47 PM
Unfortunately, it breaks one of the rules of Major Creation (which, unless it says otherwise, functions like minor creation)

I would like to see you hold a piece of antimatter. And considering what it costs to create mere atoms of the stuff, I never bought the idea that eschew material components feat works for this.
Also, you would need an insanely high CL to destroy a quarter of the galaxy this way, even if it worked. Oh, a standard wizard would blow up a good chunk of the planet, certainly destroy all life on it, but space is big. Very big. And the inverse square law tends to take care of such explosions.

This is why you get it as an SLA or (Su) ability. Or just use the psionic version.

Ravens_cry
2011-07-14, 11:04 PM
This is why you get it as an SLA or (Su) ability. Or just use the psionic version.
Still wouldn't blow up a quarter of the galaxy, though as a Spell-Like or Supernatural Ability it would at least sterilize the planet.
Psionic minor creation (now there is a creative naming scheme) says nothing about it doing away with the material components involved,merely saying it "functions like minor creation unless noted". Is what you say a general psionics rule? I am not terribly familiar with psionics.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2011-07-14, 11:14 PM
Ahem, teleportation is a conjuration spell. It magically recreates you at the spot you designate. There's no movement whatsoever, although there are some metaphysical questions about the self which, if explored, kill metacatgirls.

Ravens_cry
2011-07-14, 11:28 PM
Ahem, teleportation is a conjuration spell. It magically recreates you at the spot you designate. There's no movement whatsoever, although there are some metaphysical questions about the self which, if explored, kill metacatgirls.
The information to recreate you at your destination would still need to travel faster ten light.
Also, that is explicitly NOT how Teleportation magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#teleportation) works. Oh, the goop-regoop reconstitution, maybe, but it explicitly says

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
(bolded for emphases)

Zaq
2011-07-15, 12:24 AM
Still wouldn't blow up a quarter of the galaxy, though as a Spell-Like or Supernatural Ability it would at least sterilize the planet.
Psionic minor creation (now there is a creative naming scheme) says nothing about it doing away with the material components involved,merely saying it "functions like minor creation unless noted". Is what you say a general psionics rule? I am not terribly familiar with psionics.

Yup. Psionics never require material components.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2011-07-15, 02:44 AM
The information to recreate you at your destination would still need to travel faster ten light.Eh, I'm not a physicist, but I believe quantum mechanics either says "no ya don't" or "that is indeed possible."

Also, that is explicitly NOT how Teleportation magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#teleportation) works. Oh, the goop-regoop reconstitution, maybe, but it explicitly says

(bolded for emphases)Okay, so I was a little off about teleportation fluff for the sake of a pun. It still means that you're going to a different plane of existence and then back. I don't think there is a "distance" between the Prime and the Astral (maybe there's RAW quote in the PlH or something similar to contradict me?), so the point stands that the teleporter isn't truly covering all that distance.

Ravens_cry
2011-07-15, 02:55 AM
Eh, I'm not a physicist, but I believe quantum mechanics either says "no ya don't" or "that is indeed possible."

We are already breaking the laws of physics in variety of fun ways, that's why it is called magic, what we are doing is looking at the results of doing so in conjunction with said laws of physics. And moving information faster then the speed light would take to get their results in time travel to the past. Basically, you can send a message, yourself in this case, before you send it.


Okay, so I was a little off about teleportation fluff for the sake of a pun. It still means that you're going to a different plane of existence and then back. I don't think there is a "distance" between the Prime and the Astral (maybe there's RAW quote in the PlH or something similar to contradict me?), so the point stands that the teleporter isn't truly covering all that distance.
Actually ,that doesn't make a difference apparently. It doesn't matter that it isn't breaking the speed of light in the alternate realm, the fact is that you are getting to your destination faster then light would take going the Prime Material Plane path. This is also why wormholes, a real world theoretical possibility, can also lead to backwards time travel.
Yeah, it breaks my head too, and no, I don't get the maths. This (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/fasterlight.php) is an interesting website that goes over in fairly laymen's terms why.

Malimar
2011-07-15, 04:58 AM
Because I was curious:

You can create up to 20 cubic feet of matter at CL20. Let's figure you're making antiosmium, osmium being the densest natural element. Assuming antiosmium is as dense as osmium, you could come up with 11,326,738g of it. (Setting aside whether antiosmium counts as "an object of mineral nature".)

One gram of antimatter annihilating with one gram of matter produces 180 terajoules. 11,000,000 grams of antimatter (we've got plenty of matter to spare to annihilate it with) would therefore produce 1,980,000,000 terajoules of energy, or just under 2 zettajoules.

For comparison, the sun emits some 380 yottajoules (380,000 zettajoules) every second.

The Death Star has been calculated as needing to have put out in excess of 10^32 joules, or 100,000,000,000 zettajoules, in order to destroy Alderaan.

Even the asteroid that caused the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event (and wiped out the dinosaurs) is estimated to have caused an explosion on the order of 420 zettajoules.

The universe would be fine. CL20 Major Creation worth of antimatter wouldn't even crack the planet like an egg like I was hoping it would. It wouldn't even have the ludicrously extinctiontastic impact of the Chicxulub impact! Lame.

Apparently (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule#Multiples) you could heat the entire volume of water on Earth by a thousandth of a degree Celsius, though. And it would still be over a thousand times worse than the most powerful earthquake in recent memory, so that might spell the doom of a few civilizations, at least. But nothing so drastic as total global annihilation.

lesser_minion
2011-07-15, 07:39 AM
Swordguy already suggested this. You might also want to try anti-iridium -- I'm pretty sure it's still undecided whether it's denser than osmium or not.

More to the point, how quickly would the anti-osmium actually ignite? I'm not sure you'd get quite as awesome an explosion as you're hoping (more to the point, I'm pretty sure it would actually deal acid and fire damage, although I'm not sure what Swordguy's logic for calling it force damage actually was).

A safer option might be to hose the area with polonium dust.

panaikhan
2011-07-15, 07:56 AM
The Death Star has been calculated as needing to have put out in excess of 10^32 joules, or 100,000,000,000 zettajoules, in order to destroy Alderaan.


And star wars fans wonder why people call them nerds.

Edit - does this figure take into account that it's destruction left behind residual matter (i.e., the asteroid field the MF appeard into from hyperspace)?

lesser_minion
2011-07-15, 08:18 AM
Edit - does this figure take into account that it's destruction left behind residual matter (i.e., the asteroid field the MF appeard into from hyperspace)?

I believe the figure came from the Star Destroyer (http://stardestroyer.net) website.

However, it's meant to be given as an upper bound and a lower bound, not a precise figure.