A scoundrel?

[Kaeso]

Hey guys,

The complete scoundrel book is dedicated to making your PC a 'scoundrel'. It defines a soundrel as "the witty rogue who lives by his luck and always comes out on top". It also names a few 'scoundrels' from both fiction and history to show that they can be vastly different, yet still share the fact that they're scoundrels.

Some of these make very much sense to me like Zorro, Han Solo, Odysseus, Robin Hood etc. To a certain extent I can even understand how Sherlock Holmes is a scoundrel (even though he relies on his reasoning and deduction skills far more than plain luck). However, others make me raise my eyebrow in confusion. For example, how is Erwin Rommel a scoundrel? Sure, he tried to assassinate Hitler, but does an attempted assassination automatically make you a scoundrel?

Hannibal, Oda Nobunaga and all the other historical military leaders that are labelled as scoundrels also confuse me, is every military commander a scoundrel by default or something? If so, why aren't the Great Three (Napoleon, Alexander and Caesar) included in that list? If we choose to ignore the exclusion of the Great Three, it still doesn't make any sense: a general is supposed to be courageous, cunning and intelligent and while some luck does help, he doesn't "live off his luck". Even some fictional ones like Lara Croft and Princess Leia are iffy.

Perhaps I got the idea behind the word scoundrel wrong, but can anybody explain how the ones I named above are scoundrels in any way, shape or form?

[hamishspence]

I found Lucy Westenra from Dracula more mystifying- I can't think of anything "scoundrelly" she did in the original book, before dying and turning into a vampire.

Being good at warfare when you're outgunned may require scoundrel skills- though I'm not sure if the named examples engaged in this.

[SuperFerret]

Leia is a great scoundrel. She comes off as standard diplomat/noble type, but is actually a rebel spy with a bunch of unexpected skills (did anyone really expect the damsel in distress to be the best shot of the core group?) and is far more resourceful than anyone in the trilogy save for Han and Lando.

[Kaeso]

Being good at warfare when you're outgunned may require scoundrel skills- though I'm not sure if the named examples engaged in this.

No offense, but I don't see how that's really scoundrel-ish. Attempting to overcome such odds is basically in a general's job description.


Leia is a great scoundrel. She comes off as standard diplomat/noble type, but is actually a rebel spy with a bunch of unexpected skills (did anyone really expect the damsel in distress to be the best shot of the core group?) and is far more resourceful than anyone in the trilogy save for Han and Lando.

Good point, I guess it makes sense for Leia then.

[gbprime]

Personally, I think that Rommel was put in that list because of his unconventional battle tactics. He wasn't called "The Desert Fox" for nothing. He violated orders NOT to attack, won battles against great odds, and his tactics (and indeed his entire Africa campaign) were little supported by his superiors. That he did all this and still had the respect of both his peers and his enemies... makes him a scoundrel.

[Taelas]

Lara Croft is definitely a scoundrel. She is an extremely wealthy Brit who robs archaeological finds for kicks.

Napoleon, Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great do not fit the mold, as far as I know. I can't comment on the other military commanders, either, but it is not a surprise at all if they were scoundrels.

[Kaeso]

Personally, I think that Rommel was put in that list because of his unconventional battle tactics. He wasn't called "The Desert Fox" for nothing. He violated orders NOT to attack, won battles against great odds, and his tactics (and indeed his entire Africa campaign) were little supported by his superiors. That he did all this and still had the respect of both his peers and his enemies... makes him a scoundrel.

Another one that makes perfect sense. Maybe Complete Scoundrel makes more sense than I gave it credit for.

[SlashRunner]

What confuddles me is Aragorn, Neo, Darth Maul, and Master Chief.

[Telonius]

I'm pretty sure that Hannibal was included as an example of somebody who did something so totally, brilliantly, ridiculously unexpected that people are still flabbergasted by its legend two thousand years later. It's one thing to employ an unexpected strategy in warfare - all of the Great Three certainly did that. It's another thing entirely to march an army of soldiers mounted on elephants the long way around Europe to threaten siege against your enemy.

Rommel and Nobunaga are probably there as "magnificent bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard)" examples. (Warning, TV Tropes link).

[bloodtide]

The complete scoundrel book is dedicated to making your PC a 'scoundrel'. It defines a soundrel as "the witty rogue who lives by his luck and always comes out on top". It also names a few 'scoundrels' from both fiction and history to show that they can be vastly different, yet still share the fact that they're scoundrels.

If you scroll down page 4 a bit, you will see where they say a scoundrel is a sneak, a bluffer, and an opportunist. And that they use improvisation and imagination to gain the advantage, exploit weaknesses and gain advantages. In other words they think 'outside the box'.




For example, how is Erwin Rommel a scoundrel? Sure, he tried to assassinate Hitler, but does an attempted assassination automatically make you a scoundrel?

Rommel gets it for tactics. His tanks were known as the Ghost Division, no one knew where they were or where they were going. And then just look at all the sneaky moves in Africa by the Desert Fox.



Hannibal, Oda Nobunaga and all the other historical military leaders that are labelled as scoundrels also confuse me, is every military commander a scoundrel by default or something? If so, why aren't the Great Three (Napoleon, Alexander and Caesar) included in that list? If we choose to ignore the exclusion of the Great Three, it still doesn't make any sense: a general is supposed to be courageous, cunning and intelligent and while some luck does help, he doesn't "live off his luck". Even some fictional ones like Lara Croft and Princess Leia are iffy.

Again, the military leader types get the scoundrel type for being 'outside the box' thinkers. Hannibal used clever tactics to outmaneuver foes. He often used sneaky surprise attacks and marched through places 'no one could cross'. And he defeated much larger forces being sneaky.

Oda Nobunaga used the old 'straw solders' tick, for example to make his foes think his army was in one place, while they ran around for a surprise attack.

Napoleon, Alexander and Caesar, on the other hand, where just normal military commanders. They did not do anything sneaky or outside the box. They went by the normal rules.

Lara Croft is a thief/tomb raider like a classic D&D thief. She had to survive by being sneaky and over coming traps and such.

Princess Leia is a spy type scoundrel and a government rebel type. Working within a system to try and change things(up until episode IV start). Granted we don't get to see her do much 'scoundrel' things, but the idea is that she would have done them quite a lot to stay out of trouble with the Empire.