Use "Stonebreaker" utility as "Sunder"?

[Monty2451]

I'm playing a a campaign right now where all of us (including the DM) have been playing 3.0 and 3.5 for years, and as such we've home brewed a couple things to make 4e feel a bit more traditional. In any case, I leveled my Half-Orc Barbarian (aww yeah, he's pretty broken:smallbiggrin:), and asked the DM about the Stonebreaker encounter power, which states that until the end of my turn, I gain +5 to Strength checks to break objects and I deal double damage to all objects. I don't think it's a stretch at all to consider weapons and armor "objects", thereby turning this utility into Sunder from 3.5, but what do you all think? :smallconfused:

[Kurald Galain]

I would simply do it like this:

Sunder, barbarian attack 3
Standard action * weapon, melee
Attack: strength vs fortitude
Hit: 1[W] damage, and the target is weakened until the end of your next turn.

[Blazen]

Bringing back Sunder is not a good idea. Losing a weapon, armor, or implement in 4e can be absolutely devastating. If you start sundering your enemy's equipment then it only makes sense for the DM to return the favor. I would just use the power Kurald showed off instead.

[randomhero00]

no idea where i read it, but I could have sworn it was either impossible to break magic items by normal means, or it was impossible to target specific parts of the body/armor in 4e, ever.

[Hzurr]

no idea where i read it, but I could have sworn it was either impossible to break magic items by normal means, or it was impossible to target specific parts of the body/armor in 4e, ever.

There aren't rules for it, if that's what you mean. If such a thing is implemented, it would be done exclusively via houserules.

[Monty2451]

I would simply do it like this:

Sunder, barbarian attack 3
Standard action * weapon, melee
Attack: strength vs fortitude
Hit: 1[W] damage, and the target is weakened until the end of your next turn.

This might not be a bad idea, but I have a couple questions:
1) Wouldn't it make more sense to make the damage 1[W]+ Str. Mod.?
2) What type of ability would this be (at-will, encounter, daily)? If it's a level 3 ability, I would think it would be an "at-will" ability being as it only does basic melee damage (even less if I were to use your version).
3) How would the enemy be weakened? For example, would all attack rolls against the target I hit get a bonus, and then would that bonus increase per tier?

[NecroRebel]

1W+Str would probably be more appropriate. Actually, 2W+Str would be more in-line with the other barbarian level 3 attack powers.

Speaking of which, level 3 attack powers are encounter powers with very rare exceptions. This should not be one of them.

"Weakened" is a standard condition (see PHB1 277) that causes the sufferer to deal half damage.

[kyoryu]

1W+Str would probably be more appropriate. Actually, 2W+Str would be more in-line with the other barbarian level 3 attack powers.


With houserule powers, I'd tend to start weak and ramp up, rather than start strong and nerf.

Weakened is a pretty good status effect to apply, so I think [W] or [W]+Str would be appropriate, especially at a first pass.

Most of the attacks I've seen treat weakened as a pretty serious condition, and do significantly less damage as a result, are dailies, etc.

[Monty2451]

Yeah, I'm not really sure weakened would be the best way to go then since I was looking more at lowering the enemy's AC as opposed to nerfing their damage for one round, not to mention it doesn't even affect ongoing damage. :smallfrown:

[NecroRebel]

Fair enough... I was going by the fact that in PHB2 there's a level 3 barbarian encounter attack that does 2W+Str and knocks prone and targets Fort, all the other PHB2 level 3 barbarian encounter attacks deal at least 2W+Str, and all the ones in Primal Power either 2W+Str or have multistrike capabilities. Weakness is a pretty strong condition, though.

Edit: One of the Barb 3 attacks from PHB2 gives -2 or -Cha AC on a hit, depending on whether you're a Thaneborn barb or not.

[tcrudisi]

Yeah, I'm not really sure weakened would be the best way to go then since I was looking more at lowering the enemy's AC as opposed to nerfing their damage for one round, not to mention it doesn't even affect ongoing damage. :smallfrown:

Well, you mentioned sundering weapons as well as armor, so Kurald ran with the "sundering a weapon" aspect of what you suggested.

Want to make it a sundering armor? That sounds like the Thaneborn Barbarian to me. I would do something like...

Str vs. Fort
2W+Str and target takes -2 penalty to AC.
Thaneborn Barbarian: Target takes a penalty to AC equal to your Cha mod instead.

That actually sounds really familiar. There might already be a power that does something similar to that at a much higher level. I'm too lazy to look it up, however.

[Monty2451]

Well, you mentioned sundering weapons as well as armor, so Kurald ran with the "sundering a weapon" aspect of what you suggested.

Want to make it a sundering armor? That sounds like the Thaneborn Barbarian to me. I would do something like...

Str vs. Fort
2W+Str and target takes -2 penalty to AC.
Thaneborn Barbarian: Target takes a penalty to AC equal to your Cha mod instead.

That actually sounds really familiar. There might already be a power that does something similar to that at a much higher level. I'm too lazy to look it up, however.

And we have a winner!! I can't believe I actually missed the ability considering it's only level 3 and does exactly what you said (except it's vs. AC not Fort., but whatever). I was going crazy looking at higher level stuff and through the other PHBs looking for other feats for something like sunder, and there it was the entire time. I am a playing a Thaneborn, so this ability is going to com in VERY handy. :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: Necro beat me to it. Gotta love it when this kind of stuff is just staring you in the face and you can't seem to find it. :smallredface: