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Person_Man
2011-07-15, 11:08 AM
Raptorian: Races of the Wild pg 66: A race that can fly. The flight ability is not listed as a standard fly speed, but as an Extraordinary ability that starts as a Jump bonus and doesn't become real flight until 5HD.

Dragonborn: Races of the Dragon pg 9: This psuedo-template gives you +2 Con, -2 Dex, and your choice of a racial ability. One of them is a racial flight ability that's very similar to the Raptorian's. Another is a breath weapon that you can use once every 1d4 rounds. The damage is not very impressive, and the range is only 5 ft per hit die, and thus not really useful until mid levels. But it does qualify you for metabreath feats, which can be very potent. In exchange for becoming a Dragonborn, you give all of your base racial abilities except your type, subtype, racial hit dice, ability modifiers, size, favored class, languages, level adjustment, and modes of movement (but NOT special abilities related to movement, such as the dwarvern armor ability).

Question: Can you theoretically be a Dragonborn Raptorian with Raptorian flight and the Dragonborn breath weapon? Or do you lose it because the poor wording of the Raptorian and/or Dragonborn descriptions?

The reason I ask is because I think that it would be a great race for a Binder or Totemist or Dragonfire Adept that specializes in breath weapons.

Keld Denar
2011-07-15, 11:12 AM
I've heard a few different arguements. It only preserves movement modes that you have when you do it. The most convincing arguement, IIRC, is to wait until after you have 5 HD to undergo the DB ritual. That way you have a "fly speed", which will then keep improving.

You wouldn't have DB available from the get-go, but you'd get it soon enough.

Soranar
2011-07-15, 03:18 PM
I agree, taking the Dragonborn template at 5 HD is the only way around it by RAW or just ask your DM.

Vangor
2011-07-15, 03:48 PM
Unfortunately, I believe you would lose this due to the wording. Since those are "racial traits related to speed or movement", you certainly would not gain the flight traits for 5HD or 10HD if you became a dragonborn prior. Further, you may lose those, actually, since those are "racial traits" rather than technically flight being "possessed by your original race" in such a way.

Depends on the DM; I would say you can still progress if you want to start as a dragonborn raptoran, but I am fairly nice about this.