Dragon Disciple for Dragonfire Adept

[Scorpions__]

My player is a Tibbit Dragonfire Adept and I was wondering what a good adaption of the Dragon Disciple prestige class would be since she's interested in pursuing that path.

As it is in the Dungeon Master's Guide, it requires arcane spellcasting, and it gives bonus arcane spells.

Should it give bonus invocations, breath effects, breath weapon damage both?







DM[F]R

[Glimbur]

What are they interested in from the class? They already have a breath weapon, claws are not that useful, and invocations are not exactly on the theme. Possibly an accelerated breath progression in exchange for reduced invocations, but that can be boring because it reduces options. If it's the half-dragon template, that could probably be tacked on somewhere in DFA without making a big difference; Half Dragon's only stand out features are +8 Str, +4 NA, and wings. DFA gives scales anyway, and an invocation for wings, and doesn't have much use for Str.

[Cog]

I'd take a look at the Pathfinder version of the Disciple (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.html#dragon-disciple) and have +caster level progress invocations and breath damage as usual. Drop the Disciple breath weapon, and maybe grant a single breath effect on one of the non-casting levels; 5th or 9th. Skip the Bloodline thing in trade.

[Amnestic]

My player is a Tibbit Dragonfire Adept

Your player is awesome :smallamused:


Dragon Disciple prestige class

Why, exactly? Straightclass DFA 20 is plenty viable. Curious as to their reasoning.

[ericgrau]

Probably more dragonness. But dragon disciple is more for melee than casters. It really hurts the latter. Next step: someone plz give the OP other sources of dragonness in case the PF DD isn't allowed.

[Draz74]

You could just let them gain the Half-Dragon template by taking three levels in the Half-Dragon Template Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a). This is a terrible option power-wise for a DFA, but not as terrible as 10 levels in Dragon Disciple would be (if they could meet its prerequisites).

[MeeposFire]

Another option that I have not fuly thought through is making DD levels stack for your breath weapon and you get bonus invocations or breath weapon effects on every level you get a bonus spell. Your caster level does not increase nor do you gain new levels of invocations. It would make you weaker but it would make you better in melee (not sure why you would want that but it would), give you more broad low level powers, and keeps your BW up.

[Scorpions__]

She says she wants to enter a prestige class because of the lack of capstone in Dragonfire Adept.

I'm the DM, and she's the only player, so I'm not above tampering with the class and throwing in half-dragon as a capstone if you think that wouldn't be out of the question. But it seems like a lot of features to get at once.








DM[F]R

[tyckspoon]

She says she wants to enter a prestige class because of the lack of capstone in Dragonfire Adept.

I'm the DM, and she's the only player, so I'm not above tampering with the class and throwing in half-dragon as a capstone if you think that wouldn't be out of the question. But it seems like a lot of features to get at once.


If you're willing to play with homebrew it shouldn't be too hard to make a capstone for it- give another Dark invocation and invent a Breath Effect that can only be chosen at level 20, maybe reduce/eliminate the HP tax for using the Tiamat and Bahamut breaths? Assuming one of those was chosen (I can't really see why you wouldn't, but it's possible), perhaps give a template based on which one you have.. or just give a template anyway- take a look at Draconic? Draconomicon, and I'm sure it's been printed somewhere else as well.

[Zaq]

Learning a second level 15 breath effect isn't a capstone?

[NineThePuma]

The All Consuming Breath of Io.

Read: Combine Breath of Bahamut and FFBoT, launch them both simultaneously, take 1 point of con damage.

[Amnestic]

Learning a second level 15 breath effect isn't a capstone?

Especially if that second breath happens to be Fivefold (Though why you wouldn't take it at 15 (other than fluff reasons) is beyond me).

The DFA's capstone certainly isn't as exotic as...say, the Dread Necromancer's I will admit. Rather than giving her the Half-Dragon template (which does very little for DFAs really), maybe consider a (limited) version of Dragon Wildshape. Say, once per day, limit the size category of the dragon to a certain size/age and give it a minutes per day time limit.

No idea how balanced it would end up being, I suppose it would depend on the numbers and what carries over.

[NineThePuma]

Oh, you could also condense the DD to be a 5 level class. All the benefits of any given pair of levels in one. It's certainly not a BAD change.

[ericgrau]

More trap bait for a caster who shouldn't take it in the first place (and still shouldn't take it even with the boost) and a power boost for melee taking the most powerful core melee class? That seems kinda bad to me. Just give it something to make it more appealing to dragonfire adepts and/or casters instead.

[Groverfield]

Races of Dragon have a few better PrCs for something like that. I honestly thought that the DFA's significant capstone was the draconic immunities at 19th. I'd honestly try to persuade her into going epic as to not end at 20, and instead give her a custom epic draconic transformational PrC (to a True Dragon, more or less after she becomes a dragonborn of bahamut or something) going from level 21-25, whereafter she would be a 25HD dragon or so, it'd be a significant CR drop for her, but I think she'd actually be stronger - sure breath weapon drops to once per 1d4 rounds, but she gets spells and good physical capabilities...

[Rei_Jin]

Hmmm... how about as a capstone, they can use their breath weapon to counter other dragon's (or DFA's) breath weapons, or a casters spontaneous area effect evocation? Thus you could have a really cool "spell duel" sort of vibe going.

It would look something like this....

Mastery of Elements (Sp)
A level 20 Dragon Fire Adept has gained such an insight into the elements that they gain the ability to counter a dragons breath effect or an elemental spell or spell-like effect no more than once per round.

As long as the Dragon Fire Adept is not flat-footed, the elemental effect would affect the Dragon Fire Adept, and they are able to use a breath weapon with the opposing element to the elemental effect, they can negate their enemies elemental effect as an Immediate action.

To do so, they must make a Caster Level check against the CR of the opponent (DC = CR+11). Success indicates that they have negated the effect.

[Divide by Zero]

More trap bait for a caster who shouldn't take it in the first place (and still shouldn't take it even with the boost) and a power boost for melee taking the most powerful core melee class? That seems kinda bad to me. Just give it something to make it more appealing to dragonfire adepts and/or casters instead.

Because giving melee slightly nicer things is bad? :smallconfused:

[Groverfield]

Because giving melee slightly nicer things is bad? :smallconfused:

Forcing weaker characters (Fighters limited to core material) to cross class in order to qualify for the smaller boost is.