GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

[Morph Bark]

This only concerns the PrC itself right? It does not concern fluff (organizations, enemies, etc.)?

Give an example of your intentions so I can more properly answer this question, please.

[Fable Wright]

I would have suggested to PM him about it...more effective then reposting in hopes he will run into this...

Eh. I thought there was a decent chance that he was still following the thread, and given that he posted earlier this morning, he likely is, and that bringing up the topic of that class might lead other people to wonder about it/ask him to make more, making it that much more likely that he would do so, rather than a private yes/no that would make it much less awkward for him to say no.

[NineThePuma]

You said "Vestige" and I stopped caring. :smalltongue:

[zagan]

Hello all, it's been some times since I participate in a contest but for this one I was inspired. I'm working on the Procrastinator, a class that allow you to delay thing that may affected you, forced other to wait before acting and all sort of thing like that.

On that subject, I got a small problem with the wording of one of their most important ability I'm not sure how to convey that you can only delay a limited number of thing at the same times. Here the wording I got:


I’ll do that later (Su) Procrastinator posses the unique ability to delay harmful effect that affect them, they may do that via a combination of supreme concentration and a little bit of time manipulation. Starting at first level, you can as an immediate action delay damage you would have taken, this damage can come from any source and be in any amount. The damaged is delayed for a number of rounds equal to half your class level, minimum 1, after that it take effect as normal. When you use your I’ll do that later ability you gain one delay point, you can hold a maximum number of delay point equal to your Constitution modifier, you lose a delay point each time the damage delayed this way is no longer delayed. You cannot delay damage if you have reach your maximum number of delay point.
At third level you gain the ability to delay harmful condition in the same way as you can delay damage, the condition you can delay this way are as follow: blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, exhausted, fascinate, fatigue, frightened, immobilizedToM p140, nauseated, negative level, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, shaken, sickened and stunned. The duration of those condition does not change, only the moment upon which it begin to affect you. You gain a delay point each time you delay a condition and lose one each time a delayed condition take effect.

As you can see I use delay point but it seem akward and an additional thing that you must keep track of. Anyone willing to help me find a better wording ?

[Glimbur]

You could only let them delay one effect at once, but that reduces the power of the ability. You could also state "you may not have more effects delayed at once than your Constitution Modifier", which is slightly simpler to my mind.

[zagan]

You could only let them delay one effect at once, but that reduces the power of the ability. You could also state "you may not have more effects delayed at once than your Constitution Modifier", which is slightly simpler to my mind.

Ah that's not bad at all, it may require rewording other part of the ability but it does work better. Thanks.

[Amechra]

I've started work on my own little creation; the Paladin of the Lost Hour. Essentially, they don't follow the normal rules for actions (this will be explained inside the class), and get benefits and penalties from accruing "Paradox".

But, hey, they can change their initiative count by literally walking to their new place in the initiative count, can perform AoOs against things that people have done earlier in the round, and all that fun stuff...

[Owrtho]

Hello all, it's been some times since I participate in a contest but for this one I was inspired. I'm working on the Procrastinator, a class that allow you to delay thing that may affected you, forced other to wait before acting and all sort of thing like that.

Other thoughts for this idea would be delaying beneficial effects as well for your self and allies as well as delaying actions among other things. The former would allow you to somewhat extend the duration of buffs, by not making them actually start effecting you until later (when you need them), while the latter would allow you to group more actions than normal into a single turn by procrastinating actions from past turns. After all, if there's one thing a procrastinator is good at other than putting things off, it's rushing to get everything they put off done at the last minute.

I might also suggest allowing them to control how long actions will be delayed (so long as it does not exceed the upper limit).

Owrtho

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Oh most excellent! I've been lurking around the contests for a bit and this is the one that gave me the inspiration to finish up an older work of 'brew that never really got off the ground!

Roughly, it's the Swiftblade of telepor-temporal spells. Heavy on teleportations, dash of chronomancy (probably the Dragonlance stuffs, as I have that on hand), and a pinch of delayed blast fireball.

[Ajadea]

I've actually gotten an idea for this. Thief of Time, Timestealer, something like that. Doesn't really have a name. The idea is a character that actually uses years of life as a resource, spending the years of life they have and stealing years from other beings as a touch attack. They can then burn off their accumulated years to delay bad things (everything from status conditions to death), perform more actions, look through the past, and glimpse the future.

I want to make it so any race with a maximum lifespan can enter (no elans, no warforged, no killoren), but I don't know how to balance the abilities.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I've actually gotten an idea for this. Thief of Time, Timestealer, something like that. Doesn't really have a name. The idea is a character that actually uses years of life as a resource, spending the years of life they have and stealing years from other beings as a touch attack. They can then burn off their accumulated years to delay bad things (everything from status conditions to death), perform more actions, look through the past, and glimpse the future.

I want to make it so any race with a maximum lifespan can enter (no elans, no warforged, no killoren), but I don't know how to balance the abilities.

Make them minor things. I mean, in the purpose of combat, a year may seem like a long time, but it doesn't matter much if the guy you're stealing said year from is going to die the next round... that or lives another ~500+ years +/-1d100.

Maybe have it be based off of Spellthief and sacrificing things like sneak attack for other benefits?

[Morph Bark]

That is eerilie similar to the idea I had, though it sounds more offensively-focused than mine.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

That is eerilie similar to the idea I had, though it sounds more offensively-focused than mine.

I think originally I had something for the Gish-based contest a while back, but I never could think of abilities to throw on it outside of the general sense of "Be the Swiftblade of teleport!" Space-time just sort of flows from there, what with a lot of the official time travel magic/spells falling under the [teleport] banner, it all just sort of "clicked."

Hopefully, our finished designs will be different enough!:smallwink:

[zagan]

Other thoughts for this idea would be delaying beneficial effects as well for your self and allies as well as delaying actions among other things. The former would allow you to somewhat extend the duration of buffs, by not making them actually start effecting you until later (when you need them), while the latter would allow you to group more actions than normal into a single turn by procrastinating actions from past turns. After all, if there's one thing a procrastinator is good at other than putting things off, it's rushing to get everything they put off done at the last minute.

I have ability like planned yes.


I might also suggest allowing them to control how long actions will be delayed (so long as it does not exceed the upper limit).

Owrtho

Good point, I'll do that.

[Ajadea]

Make them minor things. I mean, in the purpose of combat, a year may seem like a long time, but it doesn't matter much if the guy you're stealing said year from is going to die the next round... that or lives another ~500+ years +/-1d100.

Maybe have it be based off of Spellthief and sacrificing things like sneak attack for other benefits?

The spellthief-esque idea is great! And the stolen years are more for the timethief's benefit (gaining more time to work with, considering the prices are going to be quite steep) than an actual detriment to the target, though I'd imagine a time thief of a high enough level could actually age a half-elf or halfling (to say nothing of an orc or human) to death.

[Hyooz]

Current working idea is the Temporalinguist (even the name is a WiP).

The idea is tapping into the power of language past and future - no, it's not going to be a Truenaming PrC - but rather seizing the power of language to speak to one's ancestral instincts empower one's spells. The theme is still hazy, but I like the theme of languages in time. I'll see where it takes me.

[TheGeckoKing]

I have an idea brewing for a magical barbarian Prc that hits people so hard they slam them forward through the timestream, ageing them and eventually killing them via old age, making them stay dead. Now we'll see if we can't make it sound more serious, or if I just drop the pretence of seriousness altogether.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I have an idea brewing for a magical barbarian Prc that hits people so hard they slam them forward through the timestream, ageing them and eventually killing them via old age, making them stay dead. Now we'll see if we can't make it sound more serious, or if I just drop the pretence of seriousness altogether.

I don't know if I should be glad or upset with you for taking the ole "I'm gonna punch you into next week!" joke literally.:smallamused:

[Sgt. Cookie]

I think I'll give this a crack.

My idea revolves around old watchmakers, literally, one of the requirements is you're either in the old or venerable age categories, who go around fixing time, or stopping it from being broken in the first place.

The class will be called Watchmaker.

[Phosphate]

Soooo.....

I'm changing tactics. No more classes that basically call an airstrike by expending a swift action.

This time, I will try to make something unique and unusual, that HARDLY qualifies as Tier 3.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Is the "Sample encounter" part of the PrC mandatory?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Is the "Sample encounter" part of the PrC mandatory?

No. The rest is, but making a sample PC has never really been required.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Alright, thanks DIT.

[zagan]

And the Procrastinator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12184895#post12184895) is up.

Ironically, I've nerver create a Prc so fast before. :smalltongue:
If someone is willing to peach my clas I'll peach yours.

[TheGeckoKing]

And the Procrastinator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12184895#post12184895) is up.

Ironically, I've nerver create a Prc so fast before. :smalltongue:
If someone is willing to peach my clas I'll peach yours.

Hrrrrrrrrm. Maybe later. :smalltongue:

Naw, but srsly, i'll have a go.

Looking at it straight away, the Special requirement is a bit iffy. I'm pretty sure you mean these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dazzled) conditions, but you might want to make it clearer.

Next, I'll do that later, while not that complicated, looks a bit foreboding. You'll need some spaces in the paragraph somewhere.

You don't need that yet needs to say what happens after it's used and the target moves father than 30ft away, because I'm reading that the effect stops being delayed if the target moves away.

Take it easy is........quite strong. Very strong, in fact. Maybe shuffle it up a bit higher in the level acquisition. Maybe scale out how long it lasts. Maybe I'm overreacting.

Not so fast seems a bit wierd with the %'s. Maybe just state "You lose X amount of attacks in a full attack"? Also, is the Note: part saying the creature can make a single melee attack as a standard action, even under this effect?

I don't see a save on Wait a little. I'm guessing you forgot that. Likewise, no save on Not so soon?

Just a little longer seems weird, considering it doesn't have any spells of its own, unless it works on it's own supernatural abilities, but then you really should define "magical effect" a bit better.

You'll do that later looks ok.

I forgot about that is essentially a "Hell Naw" button, which is always a nice capstone, so well done with that. Nothing to say there.

In conclusion, the class looks very good, but does need one or two clarifications. Other than that, great stuff.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

And the Procrastinator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12184895#post12184895) is up.

Ironically, I've nerver create a Prc so fast before. :smalltongue:
If someone is willing to peach my clas I'll peach yours.

As much as I should be doing my own PrC, I'll go ahead and give it a crack!




BECOMING A PROCRASTINATOR
*snip*

Fluff seems nice. I always shriek a little at seeing classes that "give benefits" to spellcasters without actually giving casting, though.


ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Spellcraft or Psicraft 4 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 4 ranks
Feats: Iron Will
Special: Must have suffered from at least ten different harmful conditions (see I’ll do that later) during your adventuring carer so far.

The "See do that later" should probably go to a side bar, since I noticed you mention what these "effects" are in the first class feature. For language just change it to "See the following sidebar for what counts as a 'harmful effect.'"

Other than that, entry requirements are easy. For noncasters, the easiest entry requirements are probably Factotum. Martial Adepts could also sneak in as could anyone who throws a feat to a Diamond Mind maneuver.


Class Skills
The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perform (Cha), Psicraft (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Class list and skill points per level fit. As you require Knowledge (The Planes) to enter, it really should be a class skill. Having requirement X not being a class skill really, really bugs me.


*de-tabled*

Hit dice, BAB, and saves seem appropriate. Lack of no new proficiencies are neither here nor there.



I’ll do that later (Su):*snip*

As an aside, from an editing perspective, this needs some more spaces in it. Maybe also a sidebar, but whatever. There's a lot there, as far as rules text goes, so it makes it somewhat hard to read. You also have some languages issues with plurals. If ya want, send me a PM and I could hunt those down for ya!:smallwink: (I seem to recall you saying you're a non-native speaker.)

First level portion of it is rather minor, but not bad. It's the meat of the class and pseudo-DR as a class feature is rather nice. Maybe also allow "healing" spells to be delayed, too, if you delayed damage - or at least mention what happens with that interaction as with the Crusader's Delayed Damage Pool.

Third level portion is nice. Because of the long list, I think it should be in a sidebar, but that's just me.

Fifth level looks a little odd at first because it seems contradictory without looking down to 7th level. Not sure how you could clean up the wording to make it "flow," but this is otherwise a nice feature.

Seventh level looks a bit light, as a lot of "magical effects" include ability damage (that and - by all other sources - (SU) abilities are "magical"). I understand wanting to delay ability damage as its own thing separate from 5th level, however. I just personally feel it should be thrown in with the 5th level ability, but by 10th level (at its earliest), I want to delay ability damage rather than waiting till 12th level when I could have been facing shadows since level 3. The fact that this is the only class feature at level 7 also just sort of "irks" me, so take that into consideration.

Ninth level is a nice growth from the rest of the ability. It still doesn't stop (most) maneuvers nor does it prevent other, nondamage (EX) abilities.

If I were to do this, I'd merge the 5th and 7th level abilities, make the 9th the 7th level ability and come up with a new "No, wait guys!" capstone for "I'll do that later!"


You don’t need that yet (Su): *snip*

I like this! It competes with using the same action as "I'll do that later!" which is bad, but the system doesn't really handle multiple swift/immediate actions per turn.




Take it easy (Su): *snip*

I love this class feature. It reminds me of Spate's old "Clerics of the mundane" and its large "NO!" to all sorts of weird voodoos. Most casters may do well against the Will Save just due to 7 levels of good will save. Same goes to monsters with good will saves, but hot dang! I love the idea of this ability turning everyone's tricks into pseudo-breath weapons.


Not so fast (Su):*snip*

I like this. The table is super useful, even if it is a lot to read (again, "time" does that to things). Overall, a nice way to punish "mundanes" like the casters in the same way that "Take it easy" does. I do not envy you for having to make the table, though. The note also helps, since it seems the idea isn't to out-and-out say "no" to basic attacks, but rather just to limit them to one (given the base fighter example). Using percentages does that well.


Wait a little (Su):*snip*

I love this! It's a lot like "White Raven Tactics" reversed. The language needs some work, as it is initially confusing, but, I do love the idea about it. Reading everything up until this point makes the class feel like an odd, non-caster debuffer. The fact that it screws with the "rocket tag" feel of higher level DND helps, in my opinion, too!:smallbiggrin:


Not so soon (Su):*snip*

Another solid class feature. It's an odd sort of "enabler" ability, but not bad. You still have the "see do that later" in there, as a hold over, but otherwise, nice!


Just a little longer (Su):*snip*

You need to clean up the wording some what, but, overall, I like the idea of extending some buff spells and the like by this ability by just a little more. Rather useful, honestly, as it can act like 1/4 of an extend spell up to three times per day.


You’ll do that later (Su): *snip*

Love this! It feels "late," but it is incredibly powerful. It needs an action listing, as it seems a bit ambiguous. My gut says it is a non-action and happens with along with I'll do that later, which is fine. The fact that it says "you must still be effected" bugs me, as it means a Procrastinator can't use it to "dispel" some sort of buff, but I think that may be intentional, simply due to being able to stop all sorts of debuffs itself is rather, well, powerful.


I forgot about that (Su):*snip*

I like this! Once per encounter, X doesn't happen. Really good capstone, really appropriate, too!

Overall, this very much feels like "Madfoam Rager: the Class!" And I like that.:smallbiggrin:

I feel like I'm going to tell a lot of people in my PEACHes to "cut down on words," because, let's not kid ourselves, time is a bitch to think about in the context of a game. And so help me god if I see more than one "re-wind a round" abilities in a single class. On paper, they are a cute idea, but, as far as actual gaming goes, they can be nigh-impossible to actually run.:smallfurious:

[zagan]

Hrrrrrrrrm. Maybe later. :smalltongue:

Naw, but srsly, i'll have a go.

Looking at it straight away, the Special requirement is a bit iffy. I'm pretty sure you mean these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dazzled) conditions, but you might want to make it clearer.

The list of condition is indicated in the description of the I'll do that later ability. I'll add a spoiler with the list to make thing clearer.


Next, I'll do that later, while not that complicated, looks a bit foreboding. You'll need some spaces in the paragraph somewhere.

Good point.


You don't need that yet needs to say what happens after it's used and the target moves father than 30ft away, because I'm reading that the effect stops being delayed if the target moves away.

I didn't think of that interpretation i'll change the wording.


Take it easy is........quite strong. Very strong, in fact. Maybe shuffle it up a bit higher in the level acquisition. Maybe scale out how long it lasts. Maybe I'm overreacting.

It doesn't seem that strong to me for two reason first it's a Will save and spellcaster generally have very good will save and second you need to choose careffuly, it's not always obvious which creature can cast spell.


Not so fast seems a bit wierd with the %'s. Maybe just state "You lose X amount of attacks in a full attack"? Also, is the Note: part saying the creature can make a single melee attack as a standard action, even under this effect?

My first instinct was straith number of attack (1,2,3) but I realise that monster with lot of attack would less affected so I decided to go with a percentage.


I don't see a save on Wait a little. I'm guessing you forgot that. Likewise, no save on Not so soon?

I did forgot the save for the first save but there none for not so soon because you target the effect itself not the creature. (well it's the logic anyway) Do you think it really need a save ?


Just a little longer seems weird, considering it doesn't have any spells of its own, unless it works on it's own supernatural abilities, but then you really should define "magical effect" a bit better.

magical effect are defined in the I'll do that later desription.


You'll do that later looks ok.

I forgot about that is essentially a "Hell Naw" button, which is always a nice capstone, so well done with that. Nothing to say there.

In conclusion, the class looks very good, but does need one or two clarifications. Other than that, great stuff.

Thank you very much for the peach it's appreciate. here's one for your class:

Requirement: Seem fine.

Skills: might want to add concentration so they can avoid Aoo and spellcraft so they can recognize spells.

Spells: A barbarian class that grant spell his original I admit. You have a few pronoun problem switching betwen they and you in the middle of a phrase.
I like the spell list very thematic.
As written a timebreaker cannot cast stiil spells in rage. Is that intentional ?

Lightning Fast Fury: Nice simple boost.

Steal the Years: Very cool ability. A straight debuff.

Speedy Steps: Okay.

Timecrush Rebuke: I like this one. you may just need to specify the target of the Aoo because as written they can use on any creature within reach.

Step through Time: You need to state what action is need to activate it. It default as a standard action but it may better as an immediate or swift action. Also can you use while raging ?

Lightning Speed: Very cool ability that.

Timebreaker Strike: Awesome ability. very fitting as a capstone.

Conclusions: a very cool class that just need a little polishing. The first few abilities seem a little weak but you do get spellcasting so it compensate.

Edit: Ninjad by Thrice Dead cat, response:


As much as I should be doing my own PrC, I'll go ahead and give it a crack!

pm me when it's done I'll peach it.


Fluff seems nice. I always shriek a little at seeing classes that "give benefits" to spellcasters without actually giving casting, though.

That's on purpose, with spellcasting it would be too powerful and I like the idea of a class that can either help or hinder caster.


The "See do that later" should probably go to a side bar, since I noticed you mention what these "effects" are in the first class feature. For language just change it to "See the following sidebar for what counts as a 'harmful effect.'"

Done.


Other than that, entry requirements are easy. For noncasters, the easiest entry requirements are probably Factotum. Martial Adepts could also sneak in as could anyone who throws a feat to a Diamond Mind maneuver.

Class list and skill points per level fit. As you require Knowledge (The Planes) to enter, it really should be a class skill. Having requirement X not being a class skill really, really bugs me.

:smallredface: I add Knowledge (the planes) at the last minute and just forgot to add it to the skill list.


As an aside, from an editing perspective, this needs some more spaces in it. Maybe also a sidebar, but whatever. There's a lot there, as far as rules text goes, so it makes it somewhat hard to read.

done.


You also have some languages issues with plurals. If ya want, send me a PM and I could hunt those down for ya!:smallwink: (I seem to recall you saying you're a non-native speaker.)

I would be gratfull thanks, I'll send it soon.


First level portion of it is rather minor, but not bad. It's the meat of the class and pseudo-DR as a class feature is rather nice. Maybe also allow "healing" spells to be delayed, too, if you delayed damage - or at least mention what happens with that interaction as with the Crusader's Delayed Damage Pool.

You can use "You don't need that yet" on yourself so it's covered. I'll think about the healing delayed damage issue. I'm conflict about that, fluff wise I'm not sure it fit.


Third level portion is nice. Because of the long list, I think it should be in a sidebar, but that's just me.

Done.


Fifth level looks a little odd at first because it seems contradictory without looking down to 7th level. Not sure how you could clean up the wording to make it "flow," but this is otherwise a nice feature.

I'm not clear on what you mean about contradictory.


Seventh level looks a bit light, as a lot of "magical effects" include ability damage (that and - by all other sources - (SU) abilities are "magical"). I understand wanting to delay ability damage as its own thing separate from 5th level, however. I just personally feel it should be thrown in with the 5th level ability, but by 10th level (at its earliest), I want to delay ability damage rather than waiting till 12th level when I could have been facing shadows since level 3. The fact that this is the only class feature at level 7 also just sort of "irks" me, so take that into consideration.

Ninth level is a nice growth from the rest of the ability. It still doesn't stop (most) maneuvers nor does it prevent other, nondamage (EX) abilities.

If I were to do this, I'd merge the 5th and 7th level abilities, make the 9th the 7th level ability and come up with a new "No, wait guys!" capstone for "I'll do that later!"

i understand but the problem is coming up with a new finish for "I'll do that later"
Plus fluf-wise i'm not sure how to combine delaying magical effect and ability damage.


I like this! It competes with using the same action as "I'll do that later!" which is bad, but the system doesn't really handle multiple swift/immediate actions per turn.

No choice there, yes. But it does mean that you need choose betwen preventing healing an enemy or preventing effect on yourself. It's a tactical choice.


I love this class feature. It reminds me of Spate's old "Clerics of the mundane" and its large "NO!" to all sorts of weird voodoos. Most casters may do well against the Will Save just due to 7 levels of good will save. Same goes to monsters with good will saves, but hot dang! I love the idea of this ability turning everyone's tricks into pseudo-breath weapons.

Glad you like it.


I like this. The table is super useful, even if it is a lot to read (again, "time" does that to things). Overall, a nice way to punish "mundanes" like the casters in the same way that "Take it easy" does. I do not envy you for having to make the table, though. The note also helps, since it seems the idea isn't to out-and-out say "no" to basic attacks, but rather just to limit them to one (given the base fighter example). Using percentages does that well.

:smallsmile:


I love this! It's a lot like "White Raven Tactics" reversed. The language needs some work, as it is initially confusing, but, I do love the idea about it. Reading everything up until this point makes the class feel like an odd, non-caster debuffer. The fact that it screws with the "rocket tag" feel of higher level DND helps, in my opinion, too!:smallbiggrin:

How would you word it to make it less confusing ? I had a hard time with it.
Geckoking suggest a save for that do you think it's need ?


Another solid class feature. It's an odd sort of "enabler" ability, but not bad. You still have the "see do that later" in there, as a hold over, but otherwise, nice!

You need to clean up the wording some what, but, overall, I like the idea of extending some buff spells and the like by this ability by just a little more. Rather useful, honestly, as it can act like 1/4 of an extend spell up to three times per day.

I'm not sure how I can clean up the wording even more. As you said calss feature base on time need detail.


Love this! It feels "late," but it is incredibly powerful. It needs an action listing, as it seems a bit ambiguous. My gut says it is a non-action and happens with along with I'll do that later, which is fine. The fact that it says "you must still be effected" bugs me, as it means a Procrastinator can't use it to "dispel" some sort of buff, but I think that may be intentional, simply due to being able to stop all sorts of debuffs itself is rather, well, powerful.

I'll precise the action. It's only the delay magical area effect that need the procrastinator to be among the target otherwise it can be use on any effect. I'll try to work on the wording.


I like this! Once per encounter, X doesn't happen. Really good capstone, really appropriate, too!

Thnaks.


Overall, this very much feels like "Madfoam Rager: the Class!" And I like that.:smallbiggrin:

I don't get the reference and I don't see the link with a rager ?:smallconfused:


I feel like I'm going to tell a lot of people in my PEACHes to "cut down on words," because, let's not kid ourselves, time is a bitch to think about in the context of a game. And so help me god if I see more than one "re-wind a round" abilities in a single class. On paper, they are a cute idea, but, as far as actual gaming goes, they can be nigh-impossible to actually run.:smallfurious:

You're so right, which is why I didn't go with that sort of thing.

Thank you very much.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Can someone peach my Watchmaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183926#post12183926), please?

[Morph Bark]

Can someone peach my Watchmaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183926#post12183926), please?

The skills are a bit awkward in the requirements. Why have both Craft (clockwork) and Profession (watchmaker)? The latter seems unnecessary here. (Also, perhaps you should unbold the parts after the : marks.)

You could replace the Profession ranks with a base Will save requirement instead (+4, for example).

Knowledge (history) seems like it should be in the class skills... could also be used for requirements. 4 ranks maybe?

Check the Time's adding ranks in Spot and Listen together seems awkward... and some people use Perception instead. I find it hard to imagine how you'd "listen" for it, though seeing it I'd believe. Perhaps instead give a scaling bonus to such checks to percieve disturbances in Time?

The Diplomacy bonus from Know Thy Future is flavourful, I like that.

The swordcane is kind of awkward and seems rather just thrown in there, to be honest. Plus it only really synergizes with regaining your Str and Dex.


That all being said, while very flavourful, it is really, really weak. At level 15 you are just a little good at fighting with what's basically a short sword and you can make creatures shaken (it isn't stated that it is a Mind-Affecting effect btw, but I think all fear effects are, right?).

[TheGeckoKing]

The list of condition is indicated in the description of the I'll do that later ability. I'll add a spoiler with the list to make thing clearer.

Ok then.


It doesn't seem that strong to me for two reason first it's a Will save and spellcaster generally have very good will save and second you need to choose careffuly, it's not always obvious which creature can cast spell.

I'd agree on the first point, but the second point is a bit iffy. 9/10, you know who's throwing the spells around. Anyway, you do have a point.


My first instinct was straith number of attack (1,2,3) but I realise that monster with lot of attack would less affected so I decided to go with a percentage.

I didn't think of it that way. Well, it is certainly "fairer", if that's the correct way of describing it.


I did forgot the save for the first save but there none for not so soon because you target the effect itself not the creature. (well it's the logic anyway) Do you think it really need a save ?

Not really. I just noticed it was the only ability without a save.


magical effect are defined in the I'll do that later desription.

Gotcha.


Thank you very much for the peach it's appreciate. here's one for your class:

No problem, and why thank you. :smallsmile:


Requirement: Seem fine.

Skills: might want to add concentration so they can avoid Aoo and spellcraft so they can recognize spells.

Got it.


Spells: A barbarian class that grant spell his original I admit. You have a few pronoun problem switching betwen they and you in the middle of a phrase.
I like the spell list very thematic.
As written a timebreaker cannot cast stiil spells in rage. Is that intentional ?

The pronoun thing is copypasta that wasn't cooked properly. And yes, it should be able to cast while in a rage.


Lightning Fast Fury: Nice simple boost.

Steal the Years: Very cool ability. A straight debuff.

Speedy Steps: Okay.

Snazzy.


Timecrush Rebuke: I like this one. you may just need to specify the target of the Aoo because as written they can use on any creature within reach.

Will do.


Step through Time: You need to state what action is need to activate it. It default as a standard action but it may better as an immediate or swift action. Also can you use while raging ?

1. Immediate Action. Is meant to be a panic button.
2. I guess they can be ragin' and hidin'.


Lightning Speed: Very cool ability that.

Timebreaker Strike: Awesome ability. very fitting as a capstone.

Snazzy + 1.


Conclusions: a very cool class that just need a little polishing. The first few abilities seem a little weak but you do get spellcasting so it compensate.

And I shall polish away. Many thanks!

[Sgt. Cookie]

The skills are a bit awkward in the requirements. Why have both Craft (clockwork) and Profession (watchmaker)? The latter seems unnecessary here.
Got rid of Craft (Clockwork). I kept watchmaker as it is an integral part of the fluff.


(Also, perhaps you should unbold the parts after the : marks.)
Done.


You could replace the Profession ranks with a base Will save requirement instead (+4, for example).
Added the will save, replaced Craft (Clockwork)


Knowledge (history) seems like it should be in the class skills... could also be used for requirements. 4 ranks maybe?
Added


Check the Time's adding ranks in Spot and Listen together seems awkward... and some people use Perception instead. I find it hard to imagine how you'd "listen" for it, though seeing it I'd believe. Perhaps instead give a scaling bonus to such checks to percieve disturbances in Time?
Changed to Spot OR Perception. Added scaling bonus.


The Diplomacy bonus from Know Thy Future is flavourful, I like that.
Thanks. :smallredface:


The swordcane is kind of awkward and seems rather just thrown in there, to be honest. Plus it only really synergizes with regaining your Str and Dex.
Changed to light and martial weapons.


That all being said, while very flavourful, it is really, really weak. At level 15 you are just a little good at fighting with what's basically a short sword and you can make creatures shaken (it isn't stated that it is a Mind-Affecting effect btw, but I think all fear effects are, right?).
Changed "Sword Cane fighting" to be useable on a much more varied scale, as well as giving a bonus to shaken creatures.

Also, clarified that it is a mind effecting ability.

[Glimbur]

I don't get the reference and I don't see the link with a rager ?:smallconfused:


Mad Foam Rager is a feat from... PHB II? which lets someone in a rage delay an effect for a round. I had some hydra barbarians use it to delay waves of exhaustion from the party's dread necro so they could stomp more face. It's pretty cool.

[Phosphate]

Well, my Stillsword is pretty much done (the "pretty much" comes from the fact that I have yet to add the Permeabilities, which are...kind of 20 :smallfrown:).

Either way, if any of you would like to PEACH I'll gladly return the favor.

[zagan]

Mad Foam Rager is a feat from... PHB II? which lets someone in a rage delay an effect for a round. I had some hydra barbarians use it to delay waves of exhaustion from the party's dread necro so they could stomp more face. It's pretty cool.

Ha, okay. I thoughit was a cultural reference. I can see the similarity indeed, thanks for the info.

[Dr Strangelove]

I've finished the basics of my entry, the Antecedent Investigator. I would really appreciate some feedback, particularly of power level.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Ha, okay. I thoughit was a cultural reference. I can see the similarity indeed, thanks for the info.

Sorry about that! I'll also get to the editing job soon, too, between PEACHes.


Alright, so it's time I re-enter the ring! I've got the vast majority of the crunch done. It feels like I'm bordering on "words words words..." with a few things, but space-time does that to me.

I've got a few things to finish up with the class. I feel like dropping a Fission or Body Outside Body like ability down at level 7. Level 9 needs something, and "Living Nexus" is going to be equal parts teleportation and time travel gone mad, maybe with a pinch of Fission 2: Temporal Boogaloo.

[Derjuin]

There's precedent for using homebrew as the base class our prestige class is aimed at, right? I'm wondering if I can use Knight of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209443) as my basis.

[TSED]

Curses! My design notes were all on a .txt that I didn't save (because I make bad decisions) and the power went out. Now I have to start from scratch + what I remember.

I'm also surprised no one beat me to the low-hanging fruit of "time pirate."

[Thrice Dead Cat]

There's precedent for using homebrew as the base class our prestige class is aimed at, right? I'm wondering if I can use Knight of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209443) as my basis.

People have thrown down PrCs for homebrewed works in the past. Generally, I find I PEACH them less often simply because I feel the need to also get a feel for the other homebrew.


Curses! My design notes were all on a .txt that I didn't save (because I make bad decisions) and the power went out. Now I have to start from scratch + what I remember.

I'm also surprised no one beat me to the low-hanging fruit of "time pirate."

Yo ho ho and a bottle of time?:smallconfused:

[DracoDei]

Got a vague idea here, but since it is built around "Crippling Drawbacks to get Awesome Abilities" (in that order of logical thought of how the idea occurred to me) it might be nearly impossible to balance.

Basically, it is a time-traveler who HAS to cover his tracks to prevent himself from vanishing from existence just before he undertook the action that left too much of a trace, but who has a lot of abilities (Modify Memory, Make Whole, the ability to deal subdual damage with any attack whether magical or mundane) to help him along with that.

How worth trying do people think that might be?

[TSED]

Got a vague idea here, but since it is built around "Crippling Drawbacks to get Awesome Abilities" (in that order of logical thought of how the idea occurred to me) it might be nearly impossible to balance.

Basically, it is a time-traveler who HAS to cover his tracks to prevent himself from vanishing from existence just before he undertook the action that left too much of a trace, but who has a lot of abilities (Modify Memory, Make Whole, the ability to deal subdual damage with any attack whether magical or mundane) to help him along with that.

How worth trying do people think that might be?

Just ramp up the difficulty of covering his tracks as he goes along. The gov't isn't going to bust out the national guard for a dude who dined and dashed, and the government IS going to break out the national guard for a criminal who stole a military helicopter and is currently doing strafing runs on civilians. Give the prestige class more tools but every tool makes it more difficult to get away with using.

[DracoDei]

Just ramp up the difficulty of covering his tracks as he goes along.
This part of your idea, at least, sounds like it could be very useful.

The gov't isn't going to bust out the national guard for a dude who dined and dashed, and the government IS going to break out the national guard for a criminal who stole a military helicopter and is currently doing strafing runs on civilians. Give the prestige class more tools but every tool makes it more difficult to get away with using.
Fixed the underlined word for you.
Also, I wasn't imagining his tools as being sources of tracks but ways of covering them. Thus the selection of those abilities, rather than Haste and Time Stop and such (although they might get a bit of those too).

[TSED]

This part of your idea, at least, sounds like it could be very useful.

Fixed the underlined word for you.
Also, I wasn't imagining his tools as being sources of tracks but ways of covering them. Thus the selection of those abilities, rather than Haste and Time Stop and such (although they might get a bit of those too).

Yeah, whoops, you definitely read it as intended.

And: sure, covering tracks makes it harder to be found, but they also leave evidence. If you drown a room out in bleach, it's suspicious. If you suddenly INSIST that you were at a specific place before any investigation of a murder that night, it's suspicious. It can be something simple that requires two knowledge points to correlate ("cops find a cache of buried bodies / Jason McMurderface stops going on his weekly "hunting trips" in his truck") or it can be fairly obvious (the previously mentioned "why were the sheets bleached past usability, the walls soaked in the stuff, the floor ruined by it, and the mattress burned?").

[boomwolf]

Errr...
crap...

Chrono Legionnaire does not go as planned, and many people made "time knights"

Scrapping idea in favor of a new one-Time Thief...

[Morph Bark]

I'm thankful that ErrantX chose this subject for this contest, especially as it coincides with possibly being the last PrC contest I'll be able to compete in for a while.

Such ideas I have.

It will be SO DELICIOUS.

[boomwolf]

Why last for a while? something happened?

And yes, I agree this is a badass subject for a PrC contest. such a flavorful power source with so many stories about, yet no real integration into DnD...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Why last for a while? something happened?

And yes, I agree this is a badass subject for a PrC contest. such a flavorful power source with so many stories about, yet no real integration into DnD...

Actually, 3.5 has some love for time magic. There are some articles in regards to the Forgotten Realms setting with a few time spells. The Legends of the Twins Dragonlance source book has a bunch of time spells in it, but in regards to PrCs, "time" is kind of rare. Offhand, the only thing that comes to mind is the Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).



On a related note, the Temporal Warrior is mechanically done. I still want to hammer out the fluff behind it, though. I may change the name to "Obsidian Warden," as the main class feature is Obsidian Gateway and its weird teleport-y-ness. I'm worried I gave it too much (and I'm tempted about throwing down an "Advanced Learning" class feature for time spells), so a PEACH would be greatly appreciated.

[zagan]

On a related note, the Temporal Warrior is mechanically done. I still want to hammer out the fluff behind it, though. I may change the name to "Obsidian Warden," as the main class feature is Obsidian Gateway and its weird teleport-y-ness. I'm worried I gave it too much (and I'm tempted about throwing down an "Advanced Learning" class feature for time spells), so a PEACH would be greatly appreciated.

I'm here, I waiting just for that.
Peach for the Temporal Warrior

Fluff: Short and to the point, I didn't do better so no comment.

Prereq: Seem fine, why the exotic weapon ? I don't see the link with time.
Somantic weaponry I can see because your a warrior and a mage but not the exotic weapon.
Side note: A source for non-core stuff is always nice, somantic weaponry in that case, CW no ?
Also various adaptation would be really cool. Psionic notably.

Skills, Bab, Saves: A good chassis with full bab and two good saves.

Weapon proficiency: Exotic weapon or armor again, still why ?

Transtemporal Pouches: An original ability, not sure how often it could come up in game but nice.
demises =/= dismiss

Eyes-in-time: Where's that spell ?

Spellcasting: 3 lost level, you'll need some good ability to compensate, but from a quick look it seem fair.

Obsidian Gateways: That seem like a really nice idea, even if more teleporation based than time based.
2nd level: the wording about making ranged attack isn't very clear. Does both you and the target need to be adjacent of a gate to use a ranged attack, only one of you ? "as long as he (and others) are adjacent to one of the gateways"
Who's "other" the target ?
4th level: Now your thinking with portal ! :smallbiggrin:
How do you count the number of square of movement when passing throug the gateway ? Do you count the square that the gateway occupy, do you appear adjacent to them ?
The second part also confirm that before that the target of ranged attack need to be adjacent. So earlier wording need clarification.
6th level: A nice idea, but the limit to once per round is a little limitating.
For example you want to attack you'll choose the bonus (a free action) and then if your foe attack you apply the penalty. But then, before your turn, one of your ally want to attack your foe through the gateway too and it take the penalty (and probably miss). Would it be too strong if you could instead choose the bonus/penalty depending on which creature attack ? (allies gain a +1 or enemies a -11)
Transplanar warrior ?
8th level: Instant gateway.
I'm not sure allowing other creature to travel through your gateway is such a boost, for your allies it's nice but it allow your foe to reach you too. and if you want to prevent it, it'll eat your immediate action with no guarantee of succes.

The idea is really cool but I think it need a little clarification/simplification.

Mobile Spellcasting:: Again source ? That's the spring attack feat of spellcaster no ? If so it's nice to have and fit the movement theme of the class.

Unstable Passage: As written you can only use flicker as a standard action because you don't say it's an immediate action like the original version so it default to standard.

Temporal Shift: I see what you mean but it's confusing. You use the word target multiple time but it seem to refere to yourself ? In the same phrase you use both you and target. You shift from you to him in the middle.
You need to say what happen if a creature attack the shadow ? Can it even see it ? (strongly implied but i'm sure) Can it see the difference betwen you and the shadow ?
Very confusing.

Temporal Regeneration: You dedouble yourself but it's called regeneration ?
Insteed of spliting power point/spell slot/other daily ability why not just say that you and your duplicate share the same pool of ability and if one is used it dissapear from the pool and then the other cannot use it. (Yes fission does it like that but I don't really see the point)
Also you contradicte yourself if the ressource are split then you cannot have a paradox because each "you" posses half the ressource and can spend them freely because the other does not have acces to thies half of the ressource.

In case of paradox what's the percentage of chance that an inevitable is create and what sort of inevitable it is ?

A few example of negligent use of time magic would be great.

Lot of confusion for this ability.

Delayed Trek: A delay effect, that remind me of something. :smallamused:
You need to stat the type of effect (Su probably).
The first part is clear no problem there. After reareading it no it's not.
What sort of action is need to delay effect , do you decid when you create the gateway ? As an immediate action when an effect try to pass through ?

The second part less more so, why it's harder to reduce the delay than to extend it ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
Also as written you can delay an effect as long as the gateway exist as long as you spend a swift action every few round.
What happen if the gateway dissapear before the end of the delay ? Do delayed creature dissapear ?
Finally the example is weird, what's the benefit of increasing the delay effect as an immediate action when an effect try to pass through ? (theory: because the delay is set when you create the gateway but i'm not sure)

Living Nexus: That's one very good capstone ! No comment apart from those of temporal regeneration.

Fluff: No completed but the begining is interesting.

Conclusions: Hum, yeah. The ideas behind the class and it's abilities are great ! But it is really confusing and sometimes incomplete (eyes-in-times) I admit I'm a little dissapoint because normally your work is top notch. Still you time to finish so I'm sure that you'll get it right before the end of the contest.
Also a lot of your ability require swift or immediate action, a very limited ressource.
One last thing that may be more important, the class seem to be more teleportation based than times based, two abilities really fluffed to be link with time (temporal regenration and delayed trek, plus perhaps eyes in time). Seem a little light when it's supposed to be the central them of the class. Maybe it's just me.

I think I was a little harsh and I hope I didn't offend you, but I know you are capable of much more.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'm here, I waiting just for that.
Peach for the Temporal Warrior

Thanks very much, zagan!


Fluff: Short and to the point, I didn't do better so no comment.

I'm planning on adding more to it, but I figured crunch > fluff for the sake of the contest.


Prereq: Seem fine, why the exotic weapon ? I don't see the link with time.
Somantic weaponry I can see because your a warrior and a mage but not the exotic weapon.
Side note: A source for non-core stuff is always nice, somantic weaponry in that case, CW no ?
Also various adaptation would be really cool. Psionic notably.

I'm editing the class now to cite non-core sources. The Exotic Weapon thing is partially there as a feat tax, but also to encourage things other than just human from entering it.

Skills, Bab, Saves: A good chassis with full bab and two good saves.


Weapon proficiency: Exotic weapon or armor again, still why ?

Weird stuff exists, and I mentally have the image of most Temporal Warriors either being proud of their race (Elves using Thinblades) or crazy humans.


Transtemporal Pouches: An original ability, not sure how often it could come up in game but nice.
demises =/= dismiss

Thanks, both for the compliment and the catch on the word.:smallredface:


Eyes-in-time: Where's that spell ?

In the word document I was making this class. It'll be up shortly.


Spellcasting: 3 lost level, you'll need some good ability to compensate, but from a quick look it seem fair.

The idea was to hammer spellcasting a bit, much like the Swiftblade.


Obsidian Gateways: That seem like a really nice idea, even if more teleporation based than time based.

Yeah, that's mostly because I kept thinking of space-time and "space=time" while making this class. It's a little forced, admittedly.


2nd level: the wording about making ranged attack isn't very clear. Does both you and the target need to be adjacent of a gate to use a ranged attack, only one of you ? "as long as he (and others) are adjacent to one of the gateways"

Thanks. Originally, I was thinking that ranged attacks should be a later-level ability, but I never really settled on the language for it. I'll try to clean that up.



Who's "other" the target ?
4th level: Now your thinking with portal ! :smallbiggrin:
How do you count the number of square of movement when passing throug the gateway ? Do you count the square that the gateway occupy, do you appear adjacent to them ?

I added some clarification to it. Let me know if it still seems "off."

The second part also confirm that before that the target of ranged attack need to be adjacent. So earlier wording need clarification.


6th level: A nice idea, but the limit to once per round is a little limitating.
For example you want to attack you'll choose the bonus (a free action) and then if your foe attack you apply the penalty. But then, before your turn, one of your ally want to attack your foe through the gateway too and it take the penalty (and probably miss). Would it be too strong if you could instead choose the bonus/penalty depending on which creature attack ? (allies gain a +1 or enemies a -11)
Transplanar warrior ?

Originally, I was going to do just that, but it felt too strong that way. I may go back to that method, though. I mean, it is your class feature after all.



8th level: Instant gateway.
I'm not sure allowing other creature to travel through your gateway is such a boost, for your allies it's nice but it allow your foe to reach you too. and if you want to prevent it, it'll eat your immediate action with no guarantee of succes.

The idea is really cool but I think it need a little clarification/simplification.

Fair enough. If I can get some more opinions, I may go back to my first reaction, which was to have the gateway "penalties" be dependent on allies/enemies. I may also change it so that the 8th level ability requires a Will Save (DC probably 10+.5PrC level+Key modifier) to use, failure meaning that an enemy cannot use that gateway for the rest of the day.


Mobile Spellcasting:: Again source ? That's the spring attack feat of spellcaster no ? If so it's nice to have and fit the movement theme of the class.

It basically is the Spring Attack of spellcasting. Source is Complete Adventurer, around page ~100.


Unstable Passage: As written you can only use flicker as a standard action because you don't say it's an immediate action like the original version so it default to standard.

Noted and modified to be as an immediate action.


Temporal Shift: I see what you mean but it's confusing. You use the word target multiple time but it seem to refere to yourself ? In the same phrase you use both you and target. You shift from you to him in the middle.
You need to say what happen if a creature attack the shadow ? Can it even see it ? (strongly implied but i'm sure) Can it see the difference betwen you and the shadow ?
Very confusing.

Again, this was a case where I was thinking "what if you use some weird teleport spell on an ally." I decided to just change it to "you" to save on confusion. I also added a clause that states that enemies can tell which one is "real."


Temporal Regeneration: You dedouble yourself but it's called regeneration ?
Insteed of spliting power point/spell slot/other daily ability why not just say that you and your duplicate share the same pool of ability and if one is used it dissapear from the pool and then the other cannot use it. (Yes fission does it like that but I don't really see the point)
Also you contradicte yourself if the ressource are split then you cannot have a paradox because each "you" posses half the ressource and can spend them freely because the other does not have acces to thies half of the ressource.

In case of paradox what's the percentage of chance that an inevitable is create and what sort of inevitable it is ?

A few example of negligent use of time magic would be great.

Lot of confusion for this ability.

I call it "Regeneration," because I kept thinking about Doctor Who while making this class feature.

I copied a lot of text from the Fission power, which is probably why there's so much confusion. I changed the wording so that it is now just a vague "shares" to allow for Paradox events.

I also added some more examples of that would draw attention from Inevitables.


Delayed Trek: A delay effect, that remind me of something. :smallamused:
You need to stat the type of effect (Su probably).
The first part is clear no problem there. After reareading it no it's not.
What sort of action is need to delay effect , do you decid when you create the gateway ? As an immediate action when an effect try to pass through ?

The second part less more so, why it's harder to reduce the delay than to extend it ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
Also as written you can delay an effect as long as the gateway exist as long as you spend a swift action every few round.
What happen if the gateway dissapear before the end of the delay ? Do delayed creature dissapear ?
Finally the example is weird, what's the benefit of increasing the delay effect as an immediate action when an effect try to pass through ? (theory: because the delay is set when you create the gateway but i'm not sure)

Not going to lie, delaying things screams time magic, and I like how the procrastinator did it!:smallbiggrin:

I'm overhauling this a bit to try to avoid confusion. Take another look at it, once I get the revision up for another round of PEACHes.:smallsmile:


Living Nexus: That's one very good capstone ! No comment apart from those of temporal regeneration.

I was worried I overdid it, but twice per day getting basically two different ~7th level abilities doesn't seem too bad.


Fluff: No completed but the begining is interesting.

I plan on getting more of that done in the near future!


Conclusions: Hum, yeah. The ideas behind the class and it's abilities are great ! But it is really confusing and sometimes incomplete (eyes-in-times) I admit I'm a little dissapoint because normally your work is top notch. Still you time to finish so I'm sure that you'll get it right before the end of the contest.
Also a lot of your ability require swift or immediate action, a very limited ressource.
One last thing that may be more important, the class seem to be more teleportation based than times based, two abilities really fluffed to be link with time (temporal regenration and delayed trek, plus perhaps eyes in time). Seem a little light when it's supposed to be the central them of the class. Maybe it's just me.

I think I was a little harsh and I hope I didn't offend you, but I know you are capable of much more.

A lot of the confusion comes from me being so unsure of just how I wanted things to work. I remember being confused beyond all belief trying to think how I should word (and work) Obsidian Gateways when I first made the ability. Using swift actions and immediate actions was done somewhat intentionally, as I worry that just having everything be on all the time is "too good" or "too strong." My revisions remove a lot of them, but I still want people using the Temporal Warrior to be conservative with their swift and immediate actions.

I'm also worried that I didn't focus enough on TIME, especially considering how late the time-related abilities show up in the class. In that case, I'm okay with withdrawing the entry from the competition, because it doesn't "fit."

[zagan]

I'm editing the class now to cite non-core sources. The Exotic Weapon thing is partially there as a feat tax, but also to encourage things other than just human from entering it.

Weird stuff exists, and I mentally have the image of most Temporal Warriors either being proud of their race (Elves using Thinblades) or crazy humans.

Yeah, I see what you mean but to me it feel like it come out of nowhere. In addition your obsidian gate already increase your reach so the most comonly (ab)used exotic weapon become even more powerful. Your choice.


In the word document I was making this class. It'll be up shortly.

I've seen you've post it, it seem fine and really time based so that help.


Yeah, that's mostly because I kept thinking of space-time and "space=time" while making this class. It's a little forced, admittedly.

A little, but fluff is mutable. You could say that you when teleporting you tarvel trhough time instead of the astral plane.


Thanks. Originally, I was thinking that ranged attacks should be a later-level ability, but I never really settled on the language for it. I'll try to clean that up.

The new wording for the 2nd level detail is much clearer now.


I added some clarification to it. Let me know if it still seems "off."

That too is clearer.


Originally, I was going to do just that, but it felt too strong that way. I may go back to that method, though. I mean, it is your class feature after all.

I think you should, perhaps reducing just a little the penalty to compensate ? A -6 is largely enough.


Fair enough. If I can get some more opinions, I may go back to my first reaction, which was to have the gateway "penalties" be dependent on allies/enemies. I may also change it so that the 8th level ability requires a Will Save (DC probably 10+.5PrC level+Key modifier) to use, failure meaning that an enemy cannot use that gateway for the rest of the day.

I like the idea of will save.


I call it "Regeneration," because I kept thinking about Doctor Who while making this class feature.

Ha I didn't catch the reference.


I copied a lot of text from the Fission power, which is probably why there's so much confusion. I changed the wording so that it is now just a vague "shares" to allow for Paradox events.

Now it's clearer, I doubt paradox from overusing spell slot will come often but it's nice that you add a sort of drawback.


Not going to lie, delaying things screams time magic, and I like how the procrastinator did it!:smallbiggrin:

I'm overhauling this a bit to try to avoid confusion. Take another look at it, once I get the revision up for another round of PEACHes.:smallsmile:

Much better now.


A lot of the confusion comes from me being so unsure of just how I wanted things to work. I remember being confused beyond all belief trying to think how I should word (and work) Obsidian Gateways when I first made the ability. Using swift actions and immediate actions was done somewhat intentionally, as I worry that just having everything be on all the time is "too good" or "too strong." My revisions remove a lot of them, but I still want people using the Temporal Warrior to be conservative with their swift and immediate actions.

It's much better now and I like the removed old age thing you add.


I'm also worried that I didn't focus enough on TIME, especially considering how late the time-related abilities show up in the class. In that case, I'm okay with withdrawing the entry from the competition, because it doesn't "fit."

It's fine as I said fluff is mutable.

EDIT: I've got an idea that you could use, could be some sort of drawback or with a little creativity a could useful in itself.
My idea is that X amoutn of time (10 minutes ?) after using temporal regeneration the temporal warrior disappear for the same number of round that he used the ability and he then reappear in the same position.
What do you think ?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Yeah, I see what you mean but to me it feel like it come out of nowhere. In addition your obsidian gate already increase your reach so the most comonly (ab)used exotic weapon become even more powerful. Your choice.

Exotic weapons always run that risk, but I like it better as an idea than just requiring a martial weapon. There are less "tricks" to get around it, even if it runs the risk of players going back to the Spiked Chain.


I've seen you've post it, it seem fine and really time based so that help.

I plan on throwing some more time-based spells up soon. Got to double-check my notes for the rest of them.:smallbiggrin:




A little, but fluff is mutable. You could say that you when teleporting you tarvel trhough time instead of the astral plane.

I could throw some more fluff down for that. I do sort of hint at that with one of the special requirements.


I think you should, perhaps reducing just a little the penalty to compensate ? A -6 is largely enough.

I'm still debating about just how I want to do this. I've decided that the base penalty is -5, but allies get to reduce the penalty by 1/2 Temporal Warrior level while enemies would add that to base -5.



I like the idea of will save.






Now it's clearer, I doubt paradox from overusing spell slot will come often but it's nice that you add a sort of drawback.

That was kind of my thought. You get to mess with the action economy, but if you aren't careful with it, it will cost you.



It's much better now and I like the removed old age thing you add.

It's fine as I said fluff is mutable.

While I agree that fluff is mutable, I do very much enjoy making fluff for my PrCs.


EDIT: I've got an idea that you could use, could be some sort of drawback or with a little creativity a could useful in itself.
My idea is that X amoutn of time (10 minutes ?) after using temporal regeneration the temporal warrior disappear for the same number of round that he used the ability and he then reappear in the same position.
What do you think ?

Oh, I should add that to Temporal Regeneration! Thanks for that, zagan!

[Thrice Dead Cat]

So, I've given zagan a PEACH. Time to go through the rest of the group. This won't be comprehensive for all of the classes, as it's obvious that not all of them are finished.

In order...

Paladin of the Lost Hour: Name and stuffs look interesting, but this is a shell of a class, so there isn't really anything for me to PEACH yet.

Timebreaker Savage


*fluff*

Little light, but I do like the idea of "Punch things through time!"

Entry requirements are easily met through seven levels of barbarian. The fact that you need Uncanny Dodge means you can't swap it out for some other PrC.

HD, BAB, and saves look pretty much like a barbarian prestige class's bit. Good reflex is a bit odd, but not terribly so. Class skill list is fine, but only 2+ on skills per level are, well, disappointing, as base barbarian is 4+.



Unless otherwise stated, the Save DC's for a Timebreaker Savage's abilities are equal to 10 + Timebreaker Savage levels + Wis Mod.

This is odd, as even though most barbarians won't have a high wisdom score or modifier, shenanigans could happen. It also has the nasty habit that, at 9th level your saves will be a pitiful DC 12+WIS mod. A better method would probably have the save DCs go to 10+half total HD+Wis modifier.

You should probably have another class feature called "armored casting" that says that Timebreaker Savages may cast in up to medium armor (and shields) without fear of ASF. It's more in line with other casters, like the beguiler, warmage, and dread necromancer.


Spellcasting: *snip*

Spell list is really, really, light. You also have the table say "Spellcaster" while the class feature says "Spellcasting." Seeing "celerity" on the list is, well, troublesome, no matter how thematic. Having the casting be somewhat accelerated is nice, though.


Lightning Fast Fury (Ex): *snip*

Solid class feature, especially for barbarians without other, dex-boosting rage variants.


Steal the Years (Su): *snip*

You should mention whether or not you can kill someone with this ability. I'm assuming not, but it should be mentioned.


Speedy Steps (Ex):

Making this untyped is good, but it still feels "light."


Timecrush Rebuke (Su): At 5th level, the Timebreaker Savage can thrash anyone with lightning speed foolish enough to strike back at the barbarian. Whenever someone would make an AoO against the Timebreaker Savage, the Timebreaker Savage may make an opposed Reflex check with the attacker. If they succeed, the AoO fails and the Timebreaker Savage may make one AoO as an immediate action against the attacker.

The wording could use some work. From what I'm getting out of this, i that whenever someone would make an attack of opportunity against the Timebreaker Savage, the would-be attacker makes a reflex save against the Savage, if the savage wins (use that instead of "they"), he may make an AoO against the first attacker as an immediate action. As is, it's confusing ad doesn't actually say that. You should also say what happens if the Timebreaker Savage fails.


Step through Time (Ps): At 7th level, the Timebreaker Savage can slip into a pocket of safe time for a little while. The Timebreaker Savage can, 1/day as an immediate action, hop forward in time 3 rounds. In effect, the Timebreaker Savage seems to disappear in a shimmer of silver energy, then reappear after the duration of this ability expires. The subject reappears in exactly the same orientation and condition as before. From the Timebreaker Savage’s point of view, no time has passed at all.

You may want to reference the Time Hop power. Also, I think the official abbreviation for "Psi-like Abilities" is "Psi," but I'm not certain.


Lightning Speed (Su): At 9th level, the Timebreaker Savage becomes saturated with the flow of time's energies, and is faster for it. The Timebreaker Savage is continually under the effects of a Haste spell, with a caster level equal to the Timebreaker Savage's caster level.

By 16th level, you should already have a semi-permanent haste effect, either through a weapon properties or something else. Just, well, underwhelming, especially considering that haste is one of your few (read, four) third level spells.

Timebreaker Strike (Su): At 10th level, the Timebreaker Savage perfects their skill and channels it into one, soul-rending strike. Once per day as a standard action, the Timebreaker Savage may make a single melee attack. If it succeeds, then the target must make a Will Save or die instantly as their body is sent to a week in the future, leaving their shredded soul behind. The victim is treated as dying of old age because of the time energies involved and so requires a Wish or Miracle to come back. When this ability succeeds, initially there is no body left behind. One week later however, the victim's body reappears in the exact same spot where the victim died, in the same condition before it's death.[/quote]

While thematic, the barbarian must first make an attack before having his enemy make a will save (Currently, DC 20+Wis modifier). It being only once per day and accessible at the earliest at 17th level, eh. Underwhelming.

A few other things: late entry requirements are irksome, especially when this class feels underwhelming. The strongest class feature on the entire list is probably celerity. That's, well, not enticing. The lack of rage progression outside of getting an extra +2 to Dex while raging also hurts. Overall, it doesn't feel like it does much of anything often. This is partially due to all the class features being, well, on a per day usage-system and just how underwhelming they are.


Timeless Knight

Formatting on the entry requirements needs work, class features need to be, well, added. The lack of spellcasting advancement while requiring, at the lowest, a 5th level spell (thus 9th level) is bothersome. A full PEACH will be up once the class is finished.

Stillsword and Watchmaker will probably get their own PEAChes in the next post.

[Istari]

I'm thinking about giving this a crack, but how strict is the theme? Does a class that has time and space powers fit?

[Morph Bark]

I'm thinking about giving this a crack, but how strict is the theme? Does a class that has time and space powers fit?

I would say yes, as long as the focus on those powers is pretty heavy. The focus on the time powers also shouldn't be metaphorical. Those problems also popped up with the last contest.

[Istari]

Well I'll give it a shot, the time powers are definitely not metaphorical, I was just worried about the number of non-time abilities I was planning on having.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I would say yes, as long as the focus on those powers is pretty heavy. The focus on the time powers also shouldn't be metaphorical. Those problems also popped up with the last contest.

Which is actually the reason I'm not participating in this particular contest. The theme is a bit to strongly tied into expected mechanical implementation, and there actually isn't a lot that 3.5e can do with time manipulation that doesn't seem, to me (just to clarify...this is *purely* personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the creativity and skill put into this contest), like a slipshod construction patched over a large hole in the system (i.e. time manipulation abilities never feel as such to me, and foresight and hindsight effects are mainly poor attempts to cover the fact that actual precognition is impossible in an RPG like D&D). I guess at the moment I just feel to limited by the theme, although I suppose that could change if I get a stellar idea somewhere down the line.

[Morph Bark]

...darnit, Djinn, I was looking forward to competing with you again! :smalltongue: Now I gotta twiddle my thumbs and hope ErrantX's personal life gets cleared up so I needn't take over and take you on again sooner rather than later!

But yes, admittably, time is... hard to deal with mechanically in DnD. Speeding things up or slowing things down is almost all you can get to in meaningful combat, as stopping things entirely is usually (depending on execution) overpowered, making "save points" or travelling back in time is even moreso and most of the rest gets hard to cover right fluff-wise.

I have to say I have found a slight way around it (not by myself though), so I will be using that for my PrC, but still.

...after typing all this I feel like asking if people would want a much easier theme for the next one and ended up thinking of the quote from the movie Puss In Boots "it ain't over easy" by Humpty Dumpty. This makes me think we should do an egg-based contest.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

...darnit, Djinn, I was looking forward to competing with you again! :smalltongue: Now I gotta twiddle my thumbs and hope ErrantX's personal life gets cleared up so I needn't take over and take you on again sooner rather than later!

Obviously I really have billions of ideas, but have retreated to my idea-cave to nurse my wounds until such time as I rise to overthrow you once more. :smalltongue:

To be less facetious, I just can't yet think of an interesting, non-NPC only (which hurt me a tiny bit in the last contest :smallwink:) concept to use that I'd feel happy putting on my homebrew resume (so to speak). I could make a few very complex, high-level, good-DM-required-for-use classes that do really interesting things with time, but no one except possibly a few homebrewers would want to read the thing, and *none* of them would ever actually want to run something like that.

Plus my last class was slightly criticized for being to long...and this sort of class would be much more complex.


...after typing all this I feel like asking if people would want a much easier theme for the next one and ended up thinking of the quote from the movie Puss In Boots "it ain't over easy" by Humpty Dumpty. This makes me think we should do an egg-based contest.

Is it odd that I just had about four good ideas for an egg-based contest (in the space of about a minute), but I still don't have any for a time-based contest? :smallconfused:

[TheGeckoKing]

Timebreaker Savage
[spoiler]

HD, BAB, and saves look pretty much like a barbarian prestige class's bit. Good reflex is a bit odd, but not terribly so. Class skill list is fine, but only 2+ on skills per level are, well, disappointing, as base barbarian is 4+.

I could give it 4+, I guess.


This is odd, as even though most barbarians won't have a high wisdom score or modifier, shenanigans could happen. It also has the nasty habit that, at 9th level your saves will be a pitiful DC 12+WIS mod. A better method would probably have the save DCs go to 10+half total HD+Wis modifier.

I went through all the spells, and if i'm not mistaken they're all buff spells (i.e no real save needed), so the save DC is just their for completeness' sake.


You should probably have another class feature called "armored casting" that says that Timebreaker Savages may cast in up to medium armor (and shields) without fear of ASF. It's more in line with other casters, like the beguiler, warmage, and dread necromancer.


Will do.


Spell list is really, really, light. You also have the table say "Spellcaster" while the class feature says "Spellcasting." Seeing "celerity" on the list is, well, troublesome, no matter how thematic. Having the casting be somewhat accelerated is nice, though.

Honestly, I ran out of spells to put on it, so I just left it like that for now.


You should mention whether or not you can kill someone with this ability. I'm assuming not, but it should be mentioned.

Will mention.


Making this untyped is good, but it still feels "light."

Mmmmmmmm. I have something I can add.


The wording could use some work. From what I'm getting out of this, i that whenever someone would make an attack of opportunity against the Timebreaker Savage, the would-be attacker makes a reflex save against the Savage, if the savage wins (use that instead of "they"), he may make an AoO against the first attacker as an immediate action. As is, it's confusing ad doesn't actually say that. You should also say what happens if the Timebreaker Savage fails.

Yeah, the wording is a shambles. I'm going to try something completely different (but still AoO based).


You may want to reference the Time Hop power. Also, I think the official abbreviation for "Psi-like Abilities" is "Psi," but I'm not certain.

Gotcha.


By 16th level, you should already have a semi-permanent haste effect, either through a weapon properties or something else. Just, well, underwhelming, especially considering that haste is one of your few (read, four) third level spells.

I can fix that underwhelming feeling, methinks.


While thematic, the barbarian must first make an attack before having his enemy make a will save (Currently, DC 20+Wis modifier). It being only once per day and accessible at the earliest at 17th level, eh. Underwhelming.

I'm guessing I should cut out the will save and make it activate on a successful hit.


A few other things: late entry requirements are irksome, especially when this class feels underwhelming. The strongest class feature on the entire list is probably celerity. That's, well, not enticing. The lack of rage progression outside of getting an extra +2 to Dex while raging also hurts. Overall, it doesn't feel like it does much of anything often. This is partially due to all the class features being, well, on a per day usage-system and just how underwhelming they are.


I could lower the entry, but probably only to 6th.
I FORGOT RAGE PROGRESSION MY GOD WHY AM I SO STUPID.
Might change all mention of x/day into x/encounter. That always makes things better.

[GuyFawkes]

Finally made my first entry into any of such contests. Any comments will be much appreciated, especially on the entry requirements thing. I was thinking of making the class available at around level 10, but I'm not sure if I did it right, in terms of the BAB and skills.

[Phosphate]

as stopping things entirely is usually (depending on execution) overpowered

Heh heh heh :D

[ErrantX]

Which is actually the reason I'm not participating in this particular contest. The theme is a bit to strongly tied into expected mechanical implementation, and there actually isn't a lot that 3.5e can do with time manipulation that doesn't seem, to me (just to clarify...this is *purely* personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the creativity and skill put into this contest), like a slipshod construction patched over a large hole in the system (i.e. time manipulation abilities never feel as such to me, and foresight and hindsight effects are mainly poor attempts to cover the fact that actual precognition is impossible in an RPG like D&D). I guess at the moment I just feel to limited by the theme, although I suppose that could change if I get a stellar idea somewhere down the line.

Well, if it doesn't exist in the system, make something new then? I believe in you Djinn, I know you'll come up with something for this contest.

Heck, I'm honestly surprised no one has taken the easy road and tried to make a Time Lord/Doctor Who-inspired class. For those of you who have some classes posted already, looking good so far, I'm really excited to see what we end up with! And props to Morph Bark for helping me with this right now. Fingers crossed, but life may actually calm down for me soon and we can get back to your regularly scheduled contest.

-X

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Well, if it doesn't exist in the system, make something new then? I believe in you Djinn, I know you'll come up with something for this contest.

Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

But we'll see. :smallbiggrin:

[TravelLog]

Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

But we'll see. :smallbiggrin:

Guarantee people would be willing to read it. I would be among them.

[GuyFawkes]

Guarantee people would be willing to read it. I would be among them.

+1

stupid 10 character limit

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Timebreaker Savage

I could give it 4+, I guess.

Looks good.


I went through all the spells, and if i'm not mistaken they're all buff spells (i.e no real save needed), so the save DC is just their for completeness' sake.

Slow has a Will Save negates, and I think that is the only one that has a save. Part of the problem is that the Savage only gets 6 spells known per level (first level spells only) or four spells per known per spell level (2nd through 4th). Having some nice little buffs is nice, but even a core only assassin has a choice from at least 6th spells, probably more. Even if you only count how many they know, they tie at most levels with 4 vs 4.

I realize that the casting isn't the main draw here, but I feel that the Assassin PrC is a fair comparison in that regard.



Honestly, I ran out of spells to put on it, so I just left it like that for now.

Fair enough. It just feels very, very bare-bones right now. Worst case scenario, you either 'brew up some additional spells or throw non-"time" spells on the list. I mean, it is a barbarian PrC, so give them something bearded!




Will mention.

Good to know you can't just time punch someone to death!:smallsmile:



Mmmmmmmm. I have something I can add.

Rage and charge everything from forever away. Not bad. Makes odd Spring Attack fighting kind of enticing. I like that.




Yeah, the wording is a shambles. I'm going to try something completely different (but still AoO based).

Wording still needs work. You should mention if "double the number of AoOs" is the total number the barbarian has, double the number he may use in any given instance (such as attacking twice instead of just once if someone provokes an AoO), etc.


I can fix that underwhelming feeling, methinks.

Not bad. You should mention if the second additional attack stacks or not, as I know there is at least one rage-variant that already gives one bonus attack a la haste, but does not stack with it or similar abilities.



I could lower the entry, but probably only to 6th.
I FORGOT RAGE PROGRESSION MY GOD WHY AM I SO STUPID.
Might change all mention of x/day into x/encounter. That always makes things better.


Rage progression looks nice. Making it only Barbarian 6 (with two feats you may or may not have taken already) is very straight forward.

[Morph Bark]

Heck, I'm honestly surprised no one has taken the easy road and tried to make a Time Lord/Doctor Who-inspired class.

Don't think I didn't think about it! :smalltongue:

The problem is moreso that The Doctor is more of a time-travelling Factotum with a regeneration device rather than having actual time powers. One could integrate the powers of the TARDIS into the person themselves (or make it a specially crafted item only useable by them), but then you basically got a...

...

...idea.

[ErrantX]

Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

But we'll see. :smallbiggrin:

If you come up with an idea or three and wanna bounce em off someone, send me a PM or something. I love new systems. Just gotta keep em simple and clean. You can definitely do that.


Don't think I didn't think about it! :smalltongue:

The problem is moreso that The Doctor is more of a time-travelling Factotum with a regeneration device rather than having actual time powers. One could integrate the powers of the TARDIS into the person themselves (or make it a specially crafted item only useable by them), but then you basically got a...

...

...idea.

See? And there ya go. :smallbiggrin:

-X

[TheGeckoKing]

Slow has a Will Save negates, and I think that is the only one that has a save. Part of the problem is that the Savage only gets 6 spells known per level (first level spells only) or four spells per known per spell level (2nd through 4th). Having some nice little buffs is nice, but even a core only assassin has a choice from at least 6th spells, probably more. Even if you only count how many they know, they tie at most levels with 4 vs 4.

I realize that the casting isn't the main draw here, but I feel that the Assassin PrC is a fair comparison in that regard.

Fair enough. It just feels very, very bare-bones right now. Worst case scenario, you either 'brew up some additional spells or throw non-"time" spells on the list. I mean, it is a barbarian PrC, so give them something bearded!


I think I'll add more buff spells to the list then. Divine Power, Bear's Endurance, etc.


Wording still needs work. You should mention if "double the number of AoOs" is the total number the barbarian has, double the number he may use in any given instance (such as attacking twice instead of just once if someone provokes an AoO), etc.

Double in one instance. Will get to it.


Not bad. You should mention if the second additional attack stacks or not, as I know there is at least one rage-variant that already gives one bonus attack a la haste, but does not stack with it or similar abilities.

I'll explicitly say it stacks then.

Thank you very much for the peaches, btw.

[boomwolf]

Godamn it, writer's block-I got nearly nothing, not enough for even a draft...

But some good entries so far...

[bindin garoth]

Been a while since I entered a PRC contest!

Here's the Hexer of Time. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12279461&postcount=13) Comments are welcome!

I'll also try to throw a few comments towards the other entries when I get a chance.

[classy one]

Wow no posts in 6 days? I have a few ideas but the that sticks out is a blend of Elocator and Zerth Cenobite. Maybe a bit of Chronorebel for good measure, sans the "travel 500 years into the past and rewrite the campaign" powers.
Time manipulation is hard to balance though. I'll have do a few PEACHs to make sure I know where you screwed up hehe.

[Fable Wright]

...Knowing that the deadline was extended ahead of time would have been nice to know. Now I might be able to make my PrC...

[ErrantX]

...Knowing that the deadline was extended ahead of time would have been nice to know. Now I might be able to make my PrC...

Oops my bad, I was bumping the contest and I caught the wrong date. I'll give it to the end of the week for extension as compensation.

-X

[Sgt. Cookie]

As of right now, Errant, which PrCs are elgible to procede to the voting stage?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Oops my bad, I was bumping the contest and I caught the wrong date. I'll give it to the end of the week for extension as compensation.

-X

To the last minute UPDATE/PEACH MOBILE!

Stillsword

Good easy requirements with a solid fluff one there.
Bad have a base attribute score is bad. Bad because depending on how some people will rule it, having you Constitution score ever going below 13 suddenly means your stuff never works again.

It's one of those RAW debates, but it's there. Alternate plan: why not feat requirement? It's clunky, but just requiring the dreaded Endurance is fine, as it is more or less "Constitution 13+" without being entirely dead end.

Odd to see new proficiencies gained, but whatever. Just sort of there

Your wording on the save is non-intuitive and just all around clunky. It's 3.5, so that's a given, but the "+X" bit is just kind of a pain. Consider using size categories instead. They are clunky, but for most cases, they will work well, both from a crunch consistency and the possible on the fly "Well, how big is a walnut?" situations and possible adjudications with objects (if need be).

Least: Love the idea of the bubble, but way, way way too easy to exploit via divide and conquer readied attacks and teamwork. Also, use squares. a 2 ft radius is roughly a 5 ft square cube, and sure as hell easier to deal with. Also, actually state what people can and can't do. Copy and paste via Time Stop, as I am want to do, it just makes formatting so much easier. What can and can't pop my time bubble?

Lesser: Is not much growth, in honesty. Random hit points on a possibly every other round this encounter ability is bad. Just give it a random X amount. 4d6 would average to 14 HP. Round up to 15 and call it good. The one extra round is nice, but these are all small growths. Especially when, at max HP rolls, the shield gains 23 HP. Assuming standard object AC (read, 5+size modifier), it's a one hit and still popped either way.

Regular: If you want to change the size of the square-age based of how smart someone is (or, really, any other stat), your best bet would be to instead to either use pseudo-size categories (INT X+ can use large sized cubes [10ft cubed], INT more+ huge [15ft cube], etc.) or just say use random squares. No reason why time bubbles should be a perfect sphere and all.

As a side note on this, Greater, and Sublime, the difference in sizes by your spheres, going from a minimum of +1 INT up to Middle-aged human archmage +12 (barring other tricks and cheesier things possible, natch).

{table=head]Ability "level" changes (5ft cubes)|Base size (5ft cubes)|INT size changes (in 5ft cubes)


-|
1|
-

Least->Lesser|
1|
-

Lesser->Regular|
1|
20 INT for +1, max, 30 for +2

Regular->Greater|
~1.5-2|
20 INT for +2, max, 30 for +4

Greater->Sublime|
4|
20 INT for +2, max, 30 for +4[/table]

It takes me making that table to roughly approximate that. In the end, size categories are faster and easier, more so with figs or photocopies from the back of the PHB. It's also easier to grasp, as 2D thinking is generally easier than 3D thinking. Human "okay size," ogre more size, and huge and above just eat needless space.

Permeability look interesting, the real meat of the class, I suppose. You need to state when and how and where I get counterfluxes. Looks like a lot of notes without much crunch. Nice, but not a finished class, sadly.

Time Denial is nice for debuffs not working, but really rustles my jimmies on also hurting buff spells. Yeah, I know, thematic, but it just irks me.

Stillstrider is a small teleport. I like it, even if I am all over Witch of Space this contest, too.:smalltongue: Possibly because of it. Wording needs a bit of tweaking, possibly an example text sentence or so.

Forcewrap is free magic voodoo. You should say what being a force weapon actually does: just copy and paste something from magic missile or some such, maybe a dash of brilliant energy weapon property for flavor. Describe what it does for both armor and weapons too. The differences matter.

Flashstrike needs way more clarification text. As is, it is a standard action attack to deny dex. Not bad, but, eh. Removing crit is similarly "bah" in design goals. Not a fan of the penalties.

I like the Ripple effect. Very good design. Maybe consider allowing Xty teammates be able to avoid the negatives, too? also, describe corner cases with weird magic and ranged attacks. If I'm in the voodoo bubble, but you aren't - or the reverse, what is happening?

Suppress Reactiveness is too good. Free action (read, blow all uses in a day to kill all your magic gear) via a free, not-gonna-lose-to-Caster-level Dispel Magic? No, just way too much there. Yeah, I know there are a lot of swift action stuffs in the class. At least throw a "once per round" limit there.

Delay Amputation is nice for bleeding effects, but kind of "bleh."

Membrane Sharpness should probably use a better term other than "half" for the DR purchase. We all know of the mountain hammer lockpick? Why not just say "nope, no DR for you! (Hardness goes wit it)!"

Still Mastery is poor design, as it allows Plot!Excuses to just stop your stuff for random reasons. Yeah, having a bigger and badder dude than you can work, but I dislike just automatic abilities where you entire shtick within arbitrary area just doesn't work now, cuz I say so.

Overall, I like the possibilities of stillspace, but find them lacking as it stands. Good, interesting design is hard, formatting more so.

[Morph Bark]

As of right now, Errant, which PrCs are elgible to procede to the voting stage?

Skimming them, these:

Timebreaker Savage
Watchmaker
Procrastinator
Weaver of the Threads That Bind
Hexer of Time


The rest all have either incomplete class abilities or lack some part of the fluff sections.

I have to say there are some entries that could do with some changing of how they are posted, particularly colour-wise, too much bolding or the class abilities being arranged oddly.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I've got all that I wanted to do with my PrC done.

Now back to PEACHes.


Watchmaker

Easy requirements, lots of skill points, but I think the skills themselves a little light. HD, BAB, and saves all look in order, except for the weird double will save thing you have going on there - looks like a BAB/table goof, but this is my first look at it, so we'll see.

Weapon proficiencies on a PrC are weird, but not negative. Just sort of "there."

Check the time is vague, but, well "time," does that. I like the idea of it.

I like the idea of "Know Thy Future." I just hate "per day" abilities. That said, the fear effect lasts forever. I like that, especially on a nonmagical character. I also like it, as it makes it look less like an overt attack, what with the +4 to Diplomacy. Maybe consider also giving the bonus to bluff? You may also want to add a line in there about it being a "non-hostile" maneuver or some such. Just a thought.

Reform Time is cute, but I want some more listed anomalies and maybe some "what causes them?" Type stuff. All in all, this feels a lot like a pure-fluff ability, but, well, still, I like it.

Minor note on Watchmaker's Vigour: you missed the apostrophe. Otherwise, a solid ability. Part of me also wants it to give back dexterity, too. I see that Watchmaker's fighting style recoups some of the strength lose, which is good. Side-note: I for one am really displeased with the "growing" penalties for aging in DND, but that's just me.

On the Fighting style, you should probably say what they are as. Gut reaction is as a club.

Ashes to ashes and dust to dust should probably list the bonuses it gives. Even if it is as small as just +2 to a skill, a la a circumstance bonus. An actual mechanical effect should probably be listed.

Intricate handiwork does what I want. Useful. It feels "late," level wise, but it is something to look very forward to. Kind of just hard to place, is all. Amusing this is more or less a caster-less bard entry, this is at 7-8th level, and that's pretty good. Assuming a less-than-good will save class... ouch.

Know the Time is nice. Again, "time anomaly" needs more examples. It's hard to think about, though, other than just strange "bump in the night" type "wrongness," so I can't really say that I blame ya

The Improved Fighting style should list if this +3 stacks or replaces the bonus over the base fighting style. Also, please list out as many things as possible. Key words to use "Paralyzed, unconscious, dazed, stunned, immobilized, shakened, panicked, frightened, exhausted, fatigued, frenzied." There may be more, but those all come to mine off the top of my head.

Youthful Spirit is a nice ability, late, as most of it comes back via the fighting style, but nice. Not "YES PLEASE," as it does amount mostly to just Weapon Focus x3, but it fits as a class feature.

Make Forever is nice. Type changes are always a "good" capstone.

Imprisoned Mind needs say what beats it, be it a mere dispel magic or what have you.

The Greater style references "TN Watchmaker's bonus," and I'm not seeing that. The AC bonus is nice: I like it.

Overall, this class gives a bunch of small bonuses, which is nice. Two levels are there just giving you back stats. That fits, but is bland. For prestige classes, I despise per day abilities. It's largely just me, but it still bugs me. Taking it all in, I'd say Bard 4 is the intended entry: you ditch your casting because who has time for that and you just largely fix stuff. Even so, it still has the feeling of being there for NPCs, be they DM or otherwise. It fits that odd skill monkey niche, sort of like a rogue who says "forget sneak attack, I'm buying every poison known to man!" in so much as combat goes.

Things to consider: ditch the mind-affecting tag on "know thy future," possibly as an upgrade, maybe also allow it to beat fear immune things? You mention "stunning" things after all the crunch. Having your abilities actually eventually do that is solid - either as an additional option for "know thy future" or as another ability with a different set of usages per day.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Watchmaker

Easy requirements, lots of skill points, but I think the skills themselves a little light. HD, BAB, and saves all look in order, except for the weird double will save thing you have going on there - looks like a BAB/table goof, but this is my first look at it, so we'll see.

Just a goof. I was trying to fix Bab, not will.


Weapon proficiencies on a PrC are weird, but not negative. Just sort of "there."

The idea is that since they have been around a few times they really should be able to hold their own in a fight.


Check the time is vague, but, well "time," does that. I like the idea of it.

Thank you.


I like the idea of "Know Thy Future." I just hate "per day" abilities. That said, the fear effect lasts forever.


Otherwise they are shaken for (2D6 + Watchmaker's class levels)


I like that, especially on a nonmagical character. I also like it, as it makes it look less like an overt attack, what with the +4 to Diplomacy. Maybe consider also giving the bonus to bluff?

To be honest with you, in my mind diplomacy was the key skill for stopping people messing with time. Bluff doesn't seem to fit. I suppose I could add "Diplomacy or bluff, whichever is higher".


You may also want to add a line in there about it being a "non-hostile" maneuver or some such. Just a thought.

Alright, I'll do that.


Reform Time is cute, but I want some more listed anomalies and maybe some "what causes them?" Type stuff. All in all, this feels a lot like a pure-fluff ability, but, well, still, I like it.

Sure, if I get an hour spare later I will.


Minor note on Watchmaker's Vigour: you missed the apostrophe.

I'll get on that.


Otherwise, a solid ability. Part of me also wants it to give back dexterity, too.

Maybe I should have it give everything back and replace the other two with something more useful?


I see that Watchmaker's fighting style recoups some of the strength lose, which is good. Side-note: I for one am really displeased with the "growing" penalties for aging in DND, but that's just me.

Just seemed like a good idea, really.


On the Fighting style, you should probably say what they are as. Gut reaction is as a club.

Will do.


Ashes to ashes and dust to dust should probably list the bonuses it gives. Even if it is as small as just +2 to a skill, a la a circumstance bonus. An actual mechanical effect should probably be listed.

Sure. I'll do that in a short while.


Intricate handiwork does what I want. Useful. It feels "late," level wise, but it is something to look very forward to. Kind of just hard to place, is all. Amusing this is more or less a caster-less bard entry, this is at 7-8th level, and that's pretty good. Assuming a less-than-good will save class... ouch.

As I said before, this and youthful spirit are going to be compressed into Watchmaker's vigour.


Know the Time is nice. Again, "time anomaly" needs more examples. It's hard to think about, though, other than just strange "bump in the night" type "wrongness," so I can't really say that I blame ya

I'll think about it at college and see what I can come up with.


The Improved Fighting style should list if this +3 stacks or replaces the bonus over the base fighting style.

It does say it stacks.


Also, please list out as many things as possible. Key words to use "Paralyzed, unconscious, dazed, stunned, immobilized, shakened, panicked, frightened, exhausted, fatigued, frenzied." There may be more, but those all come to mine off the top of my head.

Alright. Will do.

Also, shaken, not shakened.


Youthful Spirit is a nice ability, late, as most of it comes back via the fighting style, but nice. Not "YES PLEASE," as it does amount mostly to just Weapon Focus x3, but it fits as a class feature.

Getting compressed.


Make Forever is nice. Type changes are always a "good" capstone.

Just felt that it fit.


Imprisoned Mind needs say what beats it, be it a mere dispel magic or what have you.

I'll state that only a wish or miracle can restore someone in this way.


The Greater style references "TN Watchmaker's bonus," and I'm not seeing that. The AC bonus is nice: I like it.

It's stated just after the *.


Overall, this class gives a bunch of small bonuses, which is nice. Two levels are there just giving you back stats. That fits, but is bland. For prestige classes, I despise per day abilities. It's largely just me, but it still bugs me. Taking it all in, I'd say Bard 4 is the intended entry: you ditch your casting because who has time for that and you just largely fix stuff. Even so, it still has the feeling of being there for NPCs, be they DM or otherwise. It fits that odd skill monkey niche, sort of like a rogue who says "forget sneak attack, I'm buying every poison known to man!" in so much as combat goes.

This was really intended as a general PrC, to allow older characters to continue in the fray. Other abilities will be added to replace IH and YS.


Things to consider: ditch the mind-affecting tag on "know thy future," possibly as an upgrade,

I don't know, I mean, if you didn't have a mind, then you wouldn't know what you are doing.


maybe also allow it to beat fear immune things?

That's a good idea, actually.


You mention "stunning" things after all the crunch. Having your abilities actually eventually do that is solid - either as an additional option for "know thy future" or as another ability with a different set of usages per day.

Yeah, that works as part of know thy future, you end up being stuck there as you see the doomed reality that is to come.

[Phosphate]

It's one of those RAW debates, but it's there. Alternate plan: why not feat requirement? It's clunky, but just requiring the dreaded Endurance is fine, as it is more or less "Constitution 13+" without being entirely dead end.

I believe that absolutely no PrC is worth wasting a feat. You do get only 7 after all. I'll probably just remove that and pump up the BaB.


Odd to see new proficiencies gained, but whatever. Just sort of there

Fits the flavor, and more than that. A Stillsword most likely didn't advance primarily in a full BaB class, or if he did, he lost a lot of skill points because the requirements are rather cross-class. So it's a nice bump to give him martial proficiencies for the effort.


Your wording on the save is non-intuitive and just all around clunky. It's 3.5, so that's a given, but the "+X" bit is just kind of a pain. Consider using size categories instead. They are clunky, but for most cases, they will work well, both from a crunch consistency and the possible on the fly "Well, how big is a walnut?" situations and possible adjudications with objects (if need be).

Actually, the system is pretty simple, though I admit I wrote it in a quite clunky fashion. It should be much clearer now.


Least: Love the idea of the bubble, but way, way way too easy to exploit via divide and conquer readied attacks and teamwork. Also, use squares. a 2 ft radius is roughly a 5 ft square cube, and sure as hell easier to deal with. Also, actually state what people can and can't do. Copy and paste via Time Stop, as I am want to do, it just makes formatting so much easier. What can and can't pop my time bubble?

Mkay, I'll take those one at a time.

1. The POINT of this class is to be used in conjunction with readied attacks and teamwork strategies. It's supposed to work like that.
2. Meh, maybe you are right. Squares are indeed easier to deal with (it will also make the class much stronger if you think about it). Except I'll use cubes, not squares.
3. They can't do anything. Least is pretty explicit about that (and Time Stop doesn't work the same way as my ability).
4. Anything that deals damage normally (i.e. to stuff like walls or wooden benches) damages the membrane the exact same way. Treat it like a real material.


Lesser: Is not much growth, in honesty. Random hit points on a possibly every other round this encounter ability is bad. Just give it a random X amount. 4d6 would average to 14 HP. Round up to 15 and call it good. The one extra round is nice, but these are all small growths. Especially when, at max HP rolls, the shield gains 23 HP. Assuming standard object AC (read, 5+size modifier), it's a one hit and still popped either way.

And that stops it from being abusable. An opponent loses a round anyway being stuck in the space, and ANOTHER one loses a round breaking it, if that is what he wants. Now, I will naturally increase the hp gain since when using cubes they can't increase every time, but using averages would just make the game too predictable for me. Personal choice.


Regular: If you want to change the size of the square-age based of how smart someone is (or, really, any other stat), your best bet would be to instead to either use pseudo-size categories (INT X+ can use large sized cubes [10ft cubed], INT more+ huge [15ft cube], etc.) or just say use random squares. No reason why time bubbles should be a perfect sphere and all.

It takes me making that table to roughly approximate that. In the end, size categories are faster and easier, more so with figs or photocopies from the back of the PHB. It's also easier to grasp, as 2D thinking is generally easier than 3D thinking. Human "okay size," ogre more size, and huge and above just eat needless space.

Actually, since I am using cubes anyway, I can remove the reliance on int altogether.



Permeability look interesting, the real meat of the class, I suppose. You need to state when and how and where I get counterfluxes. Looks like a lot of notes without much crunch. Nice, but not a finished class, sadly.

It's finished. I don't see what you're not seeing :smallconfused:. Missed the spoiler? Either way, yeah, forgot to explain the counterfluxes.


Time Denial is nice for debuffs not working, but really rustles my jimmies on also hurting buff spells. Yeah, I know, thematic, but it just irks me.

Not all classes are for everyone, and for this PrC in particular the fluff is pretty precise. If Stillswords could be hasted, then good clerics should be able to command undead. It's the same thing really.


Stillstrider is a small teleport. I like it, even if I am all over Witch of Space this contest, too.:smalltongue: Possibly because of it. Wording needs a bit of tweaking, possibly an example text sentence or so.

Example added.


Forcewrap is free magic voodoo. You should say what being a force weapon actually does: just copy and paste something from magic missile or some such, maybe a dash of brilliant energy weapon property for flavor. Describe what it does for both armor and weapons too. The differences matter.

I said everything it does for armor. It prevents it from being sundered or destroyed in any other way. That is literally the only effect.


Flashstrike needs way more clarification text. As is, it is a standard action attack to deny dex. Not bad, but, eh. Removing crit is similarly "bah" in design goals. Not a fan of the penalties.

You can use it instead of normally attacking in melee, it basically is a normal at will melee attack (which means you can also replace Full Attack hits with Flashstrikes). And you are not forced to use it, so if you use a scythe and double your threat range with feats, you will obviously never Flashstrike. And denying dex is not that weak, considering most foes do NOT wear armor, and therefore make full use of their dex mod.


I like the Ripple effect. Very good design. Maybe consider allowing Xty teammates be able to avoid the negatives, too? also, describe corner cases with weird magic and ranged attacks. If I'm in the voodoo bubble, but you aren't - or the reverse, what is happening?

1. I fail to see how letting some teammates avoid the negatives fits the flavor of the ability at all.
2. All targets within the ripple have concealment. This concealment is universal, they have it against everyone, not just those in the ripple. So yeah, if you're outside the Ripple zone and try to hit/shoot someone inside, you have to roll percentage dice to see if you hit. Also, targets within the Ripple can strike targets outside the Ripple normally (just as having Blur on you doesn't make you worse at attacking).
3. I really don't know what magic you're talking about :)).


Suppress Reactiveness is too good. Free action (read, blow all uses in a day to kill all your magic gear) via a free, not-gonna-lose-to-Caster-level Dispel Magic? No, just way too much there. Yeah, I know there are a lot of swift action stuffs in the class. At least throw a "once per round" limit there.

Dispelling and making it inactive for 10 minutes are largely different notions (especially since it does. not. stack). But fine, once per round added.


Delay Amputation is nice for bleeding effects, but kind of "bleh."

Thematic. I like how pragmatic it is.


Membrane Sharpness should probably use a better term other than "half" for the DR purchase. We all know of the mountain hammer lockpick? Why not just say "nope, no DR for you! (Hardness goes wit it)!"

Good point.


Still Mastery is poor design, as it allows Plot!Excuses to just stop your stuff for random reasons. Yeah, having a bigger and badder dude than you can work, but I dislike just automatic abilities where you entire shtick within arbitrary area just doesn't work now, cuz I say so.

It makes perfect sense to me for a Stillsword master to be able to just negate everything lower Stillswords do with a mere thought, their abilities relying on will and all. Plus, at this point he's about level 18 or so minimum, and this is definitely not overpowered for that level.

Thanks a lot for everything! Will PEACH yours when I have time.

[NineThePuma]

I think you double posted there, man...

And your spoiler broke.

[Phosphate]

Gave me "the server was too busy" message the first time I posted it.

Waited 12 minutes so I could post it, then went to bed. Obviously didn't notice. Deleted now, thanks for the notice.

[Morph Bark]

This is the list of eligible classes that can be voted for:

Timebreaker Savage
Watchmaker
Procrastinator
Temporal Warrior
Weaver of the Threads That Bind
Hexer of Time


I will make a voting thread later today as right now I got to hurry to finish an important school assignment.

[Phosphate]

Did I miss anything?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Watchmaker

Just a goof. I was trying to fix Bab, not will.

I figured I'd mention it. It's a minor table issue, but it is there.


The idea is that since they have been around a few times they really should be able to hold their own in a fight.

Fair enough. I like it, but as most official PrCs just leave that section blank, I still just find it "odd."


To be honest with you, in my mind diplomacy was the key skill for stopping people messing with time. Bluff doesn't seem to fit. I suppose I could add "Diplomacy or bluff, whichever is higher".

Diplomacy does fit. I could see other social skills like bluff or sense motive coming into play, too, though.



Maybe I should have it give everything back and replace the other two with something more useful?

Maybe? As it is, the class does a decent job of giving "old" characters back some of the things they lost. It could be terribly slow from a level-up and gaming perspective, but I do like it. My main issue is that, looking at it from a rogue-base, the gains per loses feel "off." It's more to do with Venerable age slapping your physicals by -6 and only returning +3 to your mental stats.

As it stands, the Fighting styles give back some of the strength (mostly) while the constitution and dexterity regaining abilities are already fairly low in so far as levels go. I very much like the idea of what it all does, executing it is debating between having to wait several levels or session versus having an early level dip and coming away with "free" mental stat bonuses. Balancing that is difficult, especially if you're not sure what else you can give the class for those later levels.


It does say it stacks.

Must have missed it. My bad.



Also, shaken, not shakened.

Whoops. Good catch.


This was really intended as a general PrC, to allow older characters to continue in the fray. Other abilities will be added to replace IH and YS.

I like that. Lazier design is to make a casting class, but I liked what you did you your PrC. It feels very much like what some cantankerous old man would be like, if he decided to become an adventurer during a mid-life crisis.



I don't know, I mean, if you didn't have a mind, then you wouldn't know what you are doing.

It makes sense, I understand that. My main issue with is is that because "mind-affecting" is such a broad tag, it often leads to weird monster types or abilities giving immunity to things that they really shouldn't or vice versa. As it's of a low uses/day, making sure you can almost always use it helps. Having it work on everything from the start is kind of silly, yes, but I like abilities that get "upgrades" from other class features.



That's a good idea, actually.

It seemed to "fit," as it is not a true "fear effect" but more an ability that "withers" them, in so far as the flavor of it goes.



Stillsword response

I believe that absolutely no PrC is worth wasting a feat. You do get only 7 after all. I'll probably just remove that and pump up the BaB.

I mentioned endurance, simply because it fits the same sort of "naturally tough as nails" angle an above average constitution score would, except without weirdness-issues where if someone poisoned you, all of your abilities suddenly turned-off.




Fits the flavor, and more than that. A Stillsword most likely didn't advance primarily in a full BaB class, or if he did, he lost a lot of skill points because the requirements are rather cross-class. So it's a nice bump to give him martial proficiencies for the effort.

Fair enough. I just always find it "odd." I like seeing new proficiencies, it's just that a lot of the time the impact is minor, either due to the "standard" entry being fighter X or really any base class that gives full simple and martial weapons.


Actually, the system is pretty simple, though I admit I wrote it in a quite clunky fashion. It should be much clearer now.

Reading it was clunky. As 3.5 deals heavily in either squares or cubes of a certain distance (usually 5 ft. to a side), it's just easier to reference what's already there.



Mkay, I'll take those one at a time.

1. The POINT of this class is to be used in conjunction with readied attacks and teamwork strategies. It's supposed to work like that.
2. Meh, maybe you are right. Squares are indeed easier to deal with (it will also make the class much stronger if you think about it). Except I'll use cubes, not squares.
3. They can't do anything. Least is pretty explicit about that (and Time Stop doesn't work the same way as my ability).
4. Anything that deals damage normally (i.e. to stuff like walls or wooden benches) damages the membrane the exact same way. Treat it like a real material.

The new wording makes much more sense. Seeing your intent helps, and having the ability be used creatively, such as in saving a dying ally is very nice.




And that stops it from being abusable. An opponent loses a round anyway being stuck in the space, and ANOTHER one loses a round breaking it, if that is what he wants. Now, I will naturally increase the hp gain since when using cubes they can't increase every time, but using averages would just make the game too predictable for me. Personal choice.

The recharge time does help it from being truly spam-able, but the random HP can become annoying, especially with poor labeling. Using static HP makes it easier to predict, yes, but when you consider that it even just has Hardness, well, that could be enough, especially considering how objects take reduced damage from non-sonic attacks.



It's finished. I don't see what you're not seeing :smallconfused:. Missed the spoiler? Either way, yeah, forgot to explain the counterfluxes.

That's a hold-over from my first read through. My apologies.

Looking at the permeabilities, the reflex save for flying and falling creatures is clunky, considering the default is just to have flying creatures have their wings "lock" and glide or float, in the cases of magically flying monsters like beholders.

I see no reason why "Allow Swipes" to be just restricted to slashing damage. If it's a flavor thing, why not allow for piercing and "kinetic bombardment (read, bludgeoning damage).

Incarceration needs some clean-up on the wording. I know it does something to [teleport] effects, but I can't parse what exactly.

Cesation of Existence should say if things inside come back.


Not all classes are for everyone, and for this PrC in particular the fluff is pretty precise. If Stillswords could be hasted, then good clerics should be able to command undead. It's the same thing really.

I just personally dislike abilities suddenly stopping previous strategies from working. With your cleric example, it's always an either-or-type of deal. It's a design choice, yes, but "losing" haste just bugs me.



You can use it instead of normally attacking in melee, it basically is a normal at will melee attack (which means you can also replace Full Attack hits with Flashstrikes). And you are not forced to use it, so if you use a scythe and double your threat range with feats, you will obviously never Flashstrike. And denying dex is not that weak, considering most foes do NOT wear armor, and therefore make full use of their dex mod.

Denying dexterity is useful for setting up other forms of attack, such as Sudden Strikes and Sneak Attack, more so if they benefit the whole party. The issue here is Standard Action attack versus Full-attack. Denying Dexterity could be useful, say, against a light armored opponent, but you could still be housing yourself by doing one attack versus whatever your full-attack gives instead.

My main issue is that the "no crit" bit feels unnecessary. There are other (Su)-based attacks. They do weird things, but they all allow for critical hits to happen. By the time this ability comes online, you've also already got a minimum of three attacks per round on a full-attack. Is it nice to have for when you only have a standard action? Yes, but it's unfortunate that it has more drawbacks than benefits.




1. I fail to see how letting some teammates avoid the negatives fits the flavor of the ability at all.
2. All targets within the ripple have concealment. This concealment is universal, they have it against everyone, not just those in the ripple. So yeah, if you're outside the Ripple zone and try to hit/shoot someone inside, you have to roll percentage dice to see if you hit. Also, targets within the Ripple can strike targets outside the Ripple normally (just as having Blur on you doesn't make you worse at attacking).
3. I really don't know what magic you're talking about :)).

1. You're a time wizard who may or may not have allies. Having conflicting abilities on PCs can be annoying, either because the two players are doing the same thing or because one's shtick hurts the others.

2. Mention this in the rules text then! Examples are good for that. Say if it follows the Stillsword in question or if he drops it and it "sticks" to the ground.

3a. It's a Supernatural ability. Thus, I assume it takes a standard action to activate (or is "always on"), and this leads to issues with how long it lasts and how many uses/day I have. It's fine for it to be "As a standard action, for Stillsword level rounds at a time, usable at will." I just want to know.

3b.I'm using "magic" as a catch all term here to ask about what happens if an enemy (or ally) using some random spell to do something. Generally, it's as simply as going "Wish, Miracle, and other (your choice, as the designer) 9th level and stronger spells are able to bypass this effect." Sometimes a lowly Dispel Magic can overcome the effect. Things like that.




Dispelling and making it inactive for 10 minutes are largely different notions (especially since it does. not. stack). But fine, once per round added.

One person can have more than one magical item on them. Going "nova" and turning off all of their stuff in one round is poor design. Free actions (without constraints) can do that. Yeah, I understand not wanting it to be a swift action, but part of the point of swift actions is to prevent "I do these 17 different things, all of them are free actions!"

Also, for a fight, the difference between 10 minutes and forever can be the same thing: after all, being dead means not being able to use whatever it is got shut off. Having it function without a check also means it "just happens" with no chance to save against it or stop it. The standard is for most of these types of "dispels" to be as a caster level check, as if you were using some variety of Dispel Magic. If nothing else, it prevents weird cases were a plucky ~10th level character turns off the world-ending "epic" level artifact twice his cast level. Not saying treating it like Dispel Magic won't stop that from happening, just that it would make it less common.



It makes perfect sense to me for a Stillsword master to be able to just negate everything lower Stillswords do with a mere thought, their abilities relying on will and all. Plus, at this point he's about level 18 or so minimum, and this is definitely not overpowered for that level.

Thanks a lot for everything! Will PEACH yours when I have time.

Eh, it doesn't sit well with me. I'd like it if it at least had some sort of opposed level check or the like happen, rather than just be a "Nope, I'm better than you, so I freely turn off all of your stuff!" Or the rather anticlimactic battle between two Stillswords where both spend a swift action creating stillspace before the other says "Nope."

[Phosphate]

I mentioned endurance, simply because it fits the same sort of "naturally tough as nails" angle an above average constitution score would, except without weirdness-issues where if someone poisoned you, all of your abilities suddenly turned-off.

I understand. However...being poisoned resulting in you having a lot of your abilities turned off makes a lot of sense if you think about it :smallconfused:. Hmm....that gives me an idea for a Kimimaro-based class....


Reading it was clunky. As 3.5 deals heavily in either squares or cubes of a certain distance (usually 5 ft. to a side), it's just easier to reference what's already there.

Well, there's also a lot of spheres in 3.5 . Divine spells, paladin auras, frightful presence, abjurations, spreads, emanations...the real problem with those is, as my first Stillsword draft showed, that spheres are kinda clunky when their size is relatively small (i.e under 30 feet).



The recharge time does help it from being truly spam-able, but the random HP can become annoying, especially with poor labeling. Using static HP makes it easier to predict, yes, but when you consider that it even just has Hardness, well, that could be enough, especially considering how objects take reduced damage from non-sonic attacks.

That's pretty convincing...meh, ok, I'll use averages.



Looking at the permeabilities, the reflex save for flying and falling creatures is clunky, considering the default is just to have flying creatures have their wings "lock" and glide or float, in the cases of magically flying monsters like beholders.

The thing with Kinetic Allowance is that the birds/other flying things fall without moving or thinking during the fall, so they are caught by surprise. It's not similar to the default because there's no other ability which works that way (stopping time for everything except gravity itself).


I see no reason why "Allow Swipes" to be just restricted to slashing damage. If it's a flavor thing, why not allow for piercing and "kinetic bombardment (read, bludgeoning damage).

The main idea is that the structure of the membrane is of a flowing semi-solid, through which very sharp things can pass without causing damage to the membrane itself. The reason why I'm allowing only melee weapons is that ranged weapons would simply timefreeze inside the Still Space without anything else to propel them (whereas melee weapons gain momentum from the hand of the user, which is experiencing time normally). As for why I didn't allow piercing damage, that was just an overlook, added now.


Incarceration needs some clean-up on the wording. I know it does something to [teleport] effects, but I can't parse what exactly.

Changed the wording. It should sound stupid, but also clearer now.


Cesation of Existence should say if things inside come back.

I usually assume that if an ability doesn't say something, that something is not intended to be said. But meh, added "and do not come back, save for the effects of Miracle, Wish and Reality Revision".


I just personally dislike abilities suddenly stopping previous strategies from working. With your cleric example, it's always an either-or-type of deal. It's a design choice, yes, but "losing" haste just bugs me.

What bugs me is how a person who denies the very concept of time would want to be hasted. But we'll have to agree to disagree on this.



Denying dexterity is useful for setting up other forms of attack, such as Sudden Strikes and Sneak Attack, more so if they benefit the whole party. The issue here is Standard Action attack versus Full-attack. Denying Dexterity could be useful, say, against a light armored opponent, but you could still be housing yourself by doing one attack versus whatever your full-attack gives instead.

My main issue is that the "no crit" bit feels unnecessary. There are other (Su)-based attacks. They do weird things, but they all allow for critical hits to happen. By the time this ability comes online, you've also already got a minimum of three attacks per round on a full-attack. Is it nice to have for when you only have a standard action? Yes, but it's unfortunate that it has more drawbacks than benefits.

Um...no, you got it wrong. Any. Normal. Attack. Can. Be. Substituted. With. A. Flashstrike. So if you have a BaB of 16, you can Flashstrike 4 times in the same turn.

It is basically just an either-or decision between "Do I want to deny dex?" and "Do I want a chance at critical?".


1. You're a time wizard who may or may not have allies. Having conflicting abilities on PCs can be annoying, either because the two players are doing the same thing or because one's shtick hurts the others.

True, but there is no conflict to speak about, because Ripple has NO NEGATIVE EFFECT on your allies. It simply gives a positive effect to your opponents.


2. Mention this in the rules text then! Examples are good for that. Say if it follows the Stillsword in question or if he drops it and it "sticks" to the ground.

I don't think you read the ability carefully. Direct quote: "in a 200 feet area around him". Around him.


3a. It's a Supernatural ability. Thus, I assume it takes a standard action to activate (or is "always on"), and this leads to issues with how long it lasts and how many uses/day I have.

Another case of not reading carefully. Direct quote: "This ability can be suppressed or activated by the use of a swift action.".


3b.I'm using "magic" as a catch all term here to ask about what happens if an enemy (or ally) using some random spell to do something. Generally, it's as simply as going "Wish, Miracle, and other (your choice, as the designer) 9th level and stronger spells are able to bypass this effect." Sometimes a lowly Dispel Magic can overcome the effect. Things like that.

Ripple does nothing more than offer concealment :smallsigh:. Spells work exactly as they would work on targets with concealment on them. If a 9th level spell ignores concealment, it ignores Ripple, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Again, I usually assume that if an ability doesn't say something, that something is not intended to be said.


Also, for a fight, the difference between 10 minutes and forever can be the same thing: after all, being dead means not being able to use whatever it is got shut off. Having it function without a check also means it "just happens" with no chance to save against it or stop it. The standard is for most of these types of "dispels" to be as a caster level check, as if you were using some variety of Dispel Magic. If nothing else, it prevents weird cases were a plucky ~10th level character turns off the world-ending "epic" level artifact twice his cast level. Not saying treating it like Dispel Magic won't stop that from happening, just that it would make it less common.

AMF lasts 10 minutes PER level. That is all I have to say really.



Eh, it doesn't sit well with me. I'd like it if it at least had some sort of opposed level check or the like happen, rather than just be a "Nope, I'm better than you, so I freely turn off all of your stuff!"


Isn't that the definition of Improved Uncanny Dodge?

[Morph Bark]

Vote thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12368653#post12368653)!

[GuyFawkes]

You misspelled my name. Intentionally. :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

You misspelled my name. Intentionally. :smalltongue:

Will change later. Too busy laughing now. :smalltongue:

(Sorry.)

[GuyFawkes]

No, wait. Let's see how it affects my votes first. :smallbiggrin:

[Morph Bark]

So, with the last contest rounded up, I presume we'll wait with starting up the next one until next year.

Until then, thoughts on themes?

[Pyromancer999]

How about animal theme? Or Draconic theme? Or Acting theme? Or a theme about themes? Just saying.

[zagan]

If we're proposing theme I got a few idea too.
-Prc based on a specific spell or power of choice (like the force missile mage or the constructor)
-Prc based based on having a companion (animal companion, familliar, special mount, etc...)
-Hybrid theory 3 (perhaps too soon ?)
-Prc based on teamwork (aura, bardic music, teamwork benefit, etc...)

[Morph Bark]

Or a theme about themes? Just saying.

This made me think about bards and music genres. Then I realized some are likely a lot more popular than others, whilst there are a number of rock/metal bard PrCs out there already, making it harder to be original. To boot, more popular music genres would likely sooner nab fluff votes.

Then I thought about hipsters. Which seems like a good theme and a bad theme both at once.


Hybrid Theory is great, but it might be too soon (and at some point we'll run out of classes to hybridize, so we might want to save that one).

The draconic theme suggestion makes me think we could try a theme where a person makes a PrC either heavily tied to the Dragon part of DnD or to the Dungeon part, but that's more of a dual theme.

[GuyFawkes]

Hmm, since the Dragon part is rather common, how about the Dungeon part?

[The Witch-King]

Possible themes:


Flight/aerial

Black Powder Weapons

Spelljamming

Post-Apocalypse

Other Planes of Existence

[TravelLog]

Epically Destined II (Too soon?)
Environmental theme
Character-Archtype theme (or after famous movie/literary characters)
Renewal/Rebirth(It's the New Year after all)
Art
Forces of Balance
Powers behind the Throne (Manipulators/etc)

[Fable Wright]

Power is a Gish best served bold II
Seconding Post-Apocalyptic
Cold-Themed
Obligatory Christmas themed contest

[Lady Serpentine]

How about a non-bard based off a single song, of any kind?

[boomwolf]

May I suggest a teamwork-based contest (meaning classes that do little to promote themselves but assist others/get assisted better?)

[BelGareth]

May I suggest a teamwork-based contest (meaning classes that do little to promote themselves but assist others/get assisted better?)

ooh I like this, +1

[Edge]

How about a non-bard based off a single song, of any kind?

I like this idea, but that might just be because I have a bevy of songs to pick from that would be perfect for inspiration.

[Maraxus1]

How about a non-bard based off a single song, of any kind?

Like that??:


Buddy you're a boy make a big noise - Move silently not class skill

Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day - req: Knowledge local some ranks, gender male.
You got mud on your face - req: Hide some ranks
You big disgrace - Can trade in Ex-Paladin level
Kickin' your can all over the place - req: Improved unarmed strike
Sing it! - ...

We will we will rock you - Level 1: +1 damage with slings
We will we will rock you - Level 2: The same.

Buddy you're a young man hard man - Level 2: +1 Natural armor
Shoutin' in the street gonna take on the world some day - Something really good on the last level.
You got blood on your face - Level 3: Bonus to attack and damage when below 50% hp.
You big disgrace - ...
Wavin' your banner all over the place - Level 4: +1 moral bonus to attack for allies.

.....

[The Witch-King]

Like that??:


Buddy you're a boy make a big noise - Move silently not class skill

Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day - req: Knowledge local some ranks, gender male.
You got mud on your face - req: Hide some ranks
You big disgrace - Can trade in Ex-Paladin level
Kickin' your can all over the place - req: Improved unarmed strike
Sing it! - ...

We will we will rock you - Level 1: +1 damage with slings
We will we will rock you - Level 2: The same.

Buddy you're a young man hard man - Level 2: +1 Natural armor
Shoutin' in the street gonna take on the world some day - Something really good on the last level.
You got blood on your face - Level 3: Bonus to attack and damage when below 50% hp.
You big disgrace - ...
Wavin' your banner all over the place - Level 4: +1 moral bonus to attack for allies.

.....

And on Christmas Eve--you ought to be ashamed.

[JoshuaZ]

New year is well past now. Is there going to be another contest?

[ErrantX]

New year is well past now. Is there going to be another contest?

Soon. Very soon.

-X

[Morph Bark]

Soon. Very soon.

-X

Now I'm guessing it will feature ghostly paladins.

It'll be... very Soon.

[boomwolf]

I think that by rule of law we should try to hammer a paladin into EVERY concept from now on, just the heck of it.

And HOLY **** ERRANTX IS ALIVE??!?!?!

[Fable Wright]

Soon. Very soon.

-X

How soon? Minutes, hours, days? Along with your response to this post?

[ErrantX]

Now I'm guessing it will feature ghostly paladins.

It'll be... very Soon.

Hahahaha! Point to you sir, that's a good one.


I think that by rule of law we should try to hammer a paladin into EVERY concept from now on, just the heck of it.

And HOLY **** ERRANTX IS ALIVE??!?!?!

I can get behind that.

And yeah, surprisingly enough, I actually got a week off from work. So let's get a contest going here today, shall we? Miss being able to actively participate as heavily as I used to, but I have this week and a need to make it happen.

-X

[ErrantX]

New contest, it's easy and everyone has liked it in the past and its well past time. I hope no one thinks its a cop out :P

-X

[Edge]

Very much in for this one. Not sure what with, but I am in.

[Lady Serpentine]

Like that??:


Buddy you're a boy make a big noise - Move silently not class skill

Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day - req: Knowledge local some ranks, gender male.
You got mud on your face - req: Hide some ranks
You big disgrace - Can trade in Ex-Paladin level
Kickin' your can all over the place - req: Improved unarmed strike
Sing it! - ...

We will we will rock you - Level 1: +1 damage with slings
We will we will rock you - Level 2: The same.

Buddy you're a young man hard man - Level 2: +1 Natural armor
Shoutin' in the street gonna take on the world some day - Something really good on the last level.
You got blood on your face - Level 3: Bonus to attack and damage when below 50% hp.
You big disgrace - ...
Wavin' your banner all over the place - Level 4: +1 moral bonus to attack for allies.

.....

That would have worked, yes, as would simply being inspired by it, or rearranging the lyrics. Sort of a moot point now, though, unless someone decides to use it later.

[Fable Wright]

Well, a little variation in the theme could have been cool. How about combining three classes? Or another Gish contest? Or specifically Theurges? So many more options...

Out of curiosity, does it have to be two classes combined, or can it be more? And do they have to be base classes, or can they be prestige classes?

[ErrantX]

Well, a little variation in the theme could be cool. How about combining three classes? Or another Gish contest? Or specifically Theurges? So many more options...

Out of curiosity, does it have to be two classes combined, or can it be more? And do they have to be base classes, or can they be prestige classes?

The theme is about as open as it comes mate, I don't know what kind of variation I could put on it :smalltongue: Gish? Two classes. Theurge? Two classes. If you want to combine three classes, so long as you can take three class features (or more, one from each) and find ways to combine them for fun and profit, then by all means do so. It just makes it more complicated to write.

Has to be base classes; no combination of prestige classes please. Kind of takes what little "prestige" that prestige classes have left to them out of it.

-X

[JoshuaZ]

Ooh. I've got one for this one. Didn't have time to finish this class for the last contest that this one fit with. Good thing I didn't post a version of it here.

The Dancer of the Threshold uses dancing and the musical arts to channel necromancy.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I love me some hybrid theory! Current plan is to do a Warlock/Warblade PrC, possibly for Warforged with a sprinkling of Xen'driken-Giant magic.

EDIT: Tenative plane is to call it "Iron Dragon of Xen'drik," although "Warmachine" is tempting.:smalltongue:

[TheGeckoKing]

Hrrrrrrrm. I'm going to be weird this time, and so I shall ask you all what you'd prefer me to make.
Your two options are:


A Healer/Dread Necromancer PrC Plague Doctor, with a dissolved oath (because oaths are for wimps) and the ability to both cure and propagate diseases, as well as the ability to give his friends beneficial symbiotic "diseases" that heal and enhance rather than harm.

A Marshal/Hexblade PrC that functions like a WH40K Commissar, simultaneously buffing his allies and debuffing his enemies with a Bardic Music/Screamed Threats type effect, only running on Intimidate checks (or Curse uses) instead of Perform checks.

[Fable Wright]

The theme is about as open as it comes mate, I don't know what kind of variation I could put on it :smalltongue: Gish? Two classes. Theurge? Two classes. If you want to combine three classes, so long as you can take three class features (or more, one from each) and find ways to combine them for fun and profit, then by all means do so. It just makes it more complicated to write.

Has to be base classes; no combination of prestige classes please. Kind of takes what little "prestige" that prestige classes have left to them out of it.

-X
Yes, that that's what my beef with the contest is; it's too open. Some restrictions would make a lot more entries a lot more interesting...

[NineThePuma]

Suddenly, Artificer/Magitech Templar!

Possibly with Warforged >>

[ErrantX]

Yes, that that's what my beef with the contest is; it's too open. Some restrictions would make a lot more entries a lot more interesting...

Well, that's kind of not the point of hybrid theory, sadly. Its open to make it easier, kind of a, "Hey, I've always wanted to write this up but never really had the gumption," sort of thing. Take one of the suggestions in the write up for the contest, and call that your restriction perhaps? I'd be happy to work with you. I'm off of work this week so I'll actually have some time this week to field questions and administer the contest.

-X

[ErrantX]

Ooh. I've got one for this one. Didn't have time to finish this class for the last contest that this one fit with. Good thing I didn't post a version of it here.

The Dancer of the Threshold uses dancing and the musical arts to channel necromancy.

I seem to recall a Ravenloft book that had something like this in it called the Dance of the Dead. Good read, I look forward to this.


I love me some hybrid theory! Current plan is to do a Warlock/Warblade PrC, possibly for Warforged with a sprinkling of Xen'driken-Giant magic.

EDIT: Tenative plane is to call it "Iron Dragon of Xen'drik," although "Warmachine" is tempting.:smalltongue:

Hehehe, I'd be down with either name but make sure that the flavor fits the name too :P Good idea though!


Hrrrrrrrm. I'm going to be weird this time, and so I shall ask you all what you'd prefer me to make.
Your two options are:


A Healer/Dread Necromancer PrC Plague Doctor, with a dissolved oath (because oaths are for wimps) and the ability to both cure and propagate diseases, as well as the ability to give his friends beneficial symbiotic "diseases" that heal and enhance rather than harm.

A Marshal/Hexblade PrC that functions like a WH40K Commissar, simultaneously buffing his allies and debuffing his enemies with a Bardic Music/Screamed Threats type effect, only running on Intimidate checks (or Curse uses) instead of Perform checks.


My vote for this goes to the Marshal/Hexblade, personally. Not enough love for either class.


Suddenly, Artificer/Magitech Templar!

Possibly with Warforged >>

Magitech Templar? >_> Is that what you're making or is that a homebrew class you're wanting to combine with Artificer?


-X

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Hrrrrrrrm. I'm going to be weird this time, and so I shall ask you all what you'd prefer me to make.
Your two options are:


A Healer/Dread Necromancer PrC Plague Doctor, with a dissolved oath (because oaths are for wimps) and the ability to both cure and propagate diseases, as well as the ability to give his friends beneficial symbiotic "diseases" that heal and enhance rather than harm.

A Marshal/Hexblade PrC that functions like a WH40K Commissar, simultaneously buffing his allies and debuffing his enemies with a Bardic Music/Screamed Threats type effect, only running on Intimidate checks (or Curse uses) instead of Perform checks.


I'd actually like to see the first one. Absolutely screams "Papa Nurgle." As for the second, I'd recommend combining together the Hexblade's Curse and Bardic Music into one action, adding new twinned effects and having the entire thing either run off of Perform (Oratory) or Intimidate.


Suddenly, Artificer/Magitech Templar!

Possibly with Warforged >>

NineThePuma, with statements like that make me want to call you "comrade." :smalltongue: Here's hoping our ideas aren't too terribly similar.:smallbiggrin:


Well, that's kind of not the point of hybrid theory, sadly. Its open to make it easier, kind of a, "Hey, I've always wanted to write this up but never really had the gumption," sort of thing. Take one of the suggestions in the write up for the contest, and call that your restriction perhaps? I'd be happy to work with you. I'm off of work this week so I'll actually have some time this week to field questions and administer the contest.

-X

I've always thought of it as being very much as a "first come, first serve" basis where whoever posts their ideas gets "dibs." For good or for ill, obviously.

[BelGareth]

Thinking up a Favored Soul/Swordsage combo

As far as I've seen neither get any love (I know Martial classes do, but specifically swordsage?)

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. Rough draft of the Dancer of the Threshold is up. I haven't yet finished statting up the Dances themselves.

Their are two potential serious issues that I'd like feedback on. First, should some of the levels also give +1 to bardic spellcasting? Right now, none of them do. I don't know if this would make more sense to have that or not.

Second, the save DC for Dances is non-standard. I explain their my logic for using it and how I've tried to balance it but I'm not sure this is actually that balanced. Input would be appreciated.

[EdroGrimshell]

I think i'm going to participate in this one, i have one for a triple hybrid of psionics, incarnum, and invocations, most likely a gish-type class

That or, an old project of mine, a 15 level PrC that emphasizes a companion made from combining several companions from various classes.

[GuyFawkes]

Oh, It's started. Hmm, hybrid. Lots of options.

[JoshuaZ]

I think i'm going to participate in this one, i have one for a triple hybrid of psionics, incarnum, and invocations, most likely a gish-type class

That or, an old project of mine, a 15 level PrC that emphasizes a companion made from combining several companions from various classes.

Both of these sound very interesting.

[EdroGrimshell]

Both of these sound very interesting.

I'm leaning towards the fusionist (the companion one) since i actually have part of it done. Main thing i have to do is get the add-ons for the companion and touch up the actual companion.

[NineThePuma]

Does your inspiration involve the name "tony stark"?'

MT is a class by Person_Man. It's quite awesome and meshes with Artificer quite well. I'd be helping them mix better, mostly.

[EdroGrimshell]

Posted a rough draft of the fusionist, let me know your initial thoughts on the thing.

Also, anyone that gets the reference in the class gets a cookie

[zagan]

Another Hybrid contest sound interesting. I have lot of idea, I hope I'll get the time to work on something.

[Vlos]

Fusionist looks cool so far.

[Silva Stormrage]

Yes this looks interesting. I might try for a dread necromancer/psionic class.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Is it just me or does a Blood Magus (Complete Arcane) crossed with Black Guard seem like a good idea?

*Leans back in chair, laughs evilly*

[EdroGrimshell]

Is it just me or does a Blood Magus (Complete Arcane) crossed with Black Guard seem like a good idea?

*Leans back in chair, laughs evilly*

Fusing two PrCs? Interesting and potentially awesome

[Sgt. Cookie]

Yeah, I was thinking about using the blood magus' control over blood to summon and control legions of undead.

Sadly, after reading earlier in the thread, ErrantX said no PrC's. Damn.

[boomwolf]

I'm kina Surprised that Hybrid III is on already...
Well, what to throw into the mix that makes minimal amounts of sense and has not been done to death?

will, tackled me a bit there actually...might take a few days to get a concept...my current concepts are a bit awkward with the following:

monk/sorcerer flurry-of-spells styles
reworked rage mage to make sense
monk/favored soul that uses divine blessing to enhance his body

All three are plausible, but I'm not sure about them, what do you think?

[TheGeckoKing]

My vote for this goes to the Marshal/Hexblade, personally. Not enough love for either class.


I'd actually like to see the first one. Absolutely screams "Papa Nurgle." As for the second, I'd recommend combining together the Hexblade's Curse and Bardic Music into one action, adding new twinned effects and having the entire thing either run off of Perform (Oratory) or Intimidate.

Hrrrrrrm. That's one a-piece, so I shall now refer to the coin flip.......
EDIT: Lady Luck has decided that I shall make the Dread Commander! Heck, it's not like a Plague Doctor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214607) has been done before, anyway. :smallwink:

[boomwolf]

Yaknow, I just got an idea...

Screw alignment problems, these two are a perfect match:

Both use charisma
One cares about the story the tell about him, the other cares about the stories he tells.

BARD/KNIGHT! two of the most fluff-crazed classes out there, yet the younger brother (knight) suffers from lack of love...

[Edge]

Still need a name for it, but I'll be going for a spirit shaman/totemist hybrid.

[Fable Wright]

Hm... two thoughts bouncing around right now, wanted to get your opinions on them.

Heritors of the Unknown (Better name pending), a group of Duskblade/Totemists that have taken to offering the souls of the world to the Far Realms in exchange for power, while channeling the power of the far realms into this world, applying it's twisted physics to this world's own, and the
Rune Sages (Better name also pernding), a group of Binder/Sorcerers who go back to the very roots of magic, eventually learning to wield the awesomely powerful spellcasting style of the ancients.

[NineThePuma]

the awesomely powerful spellcasting style of the ancients.

Isn't Sorc a full caster already? :smallwink:

[boomwolf]

Well, he is only tier 1.1, not true tier 1.

[bindin garoth]

Hmmmmm..... Just had a lot of time free up so I've come up with a few ideas. Can anyone give me their input?

- Blades of Chaos: An ozdrin/martial adapt who uses his flesh to summon the blade of chaos. Is able to summon it in groups to attack, and create a "snake" of blades with this feature.

- Disciple of Ashardalon: A warlock/dragonfire adapt/binder who focuses on following in Ashardalon's footsteps, eventually replacing their heart with one of fiendish origins.

-hmmmm...... I had another one but it seems to evade me at the moment. :smalltongue:

[TravelLog]

Hm... two thoughts bouncing around right now, wanted to get your opinions on them.

Heritors of the Unknown (Better name pending), a group of Duskblade/Totemists that have taken to offering the souls of the world to the Far Realms in exchange for power, while channeling the power of the far realms into this world, applying it's twisted physics to this world's own, and the
Rune Sages (Better name also pernding), a group of Binder/Sorcerers who go back to the very roots of magic, eventually learning to wield the awesomely powerful spellcasting style of the ancients.


Rune Sages for the win. Binders have so much incredible flavor and potential.

[Edge]

Got a better idea for a spirit shaman/bard PrC, the Keeper of the Eddaic Mysteries.

[Hyooz]

Currently working on a Shadowcaster/Shapeshift Druid hybrid. Should be good times, mang.

[TheGeckoKing]

The Dread Commander is up! The class abilities as-is might be a bit over the top, but considering it's a Marshal/Hexblade PrC, I felt justified in the power creep.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Does your inspiration involve the name "tony stark"?'

This time, not so much. Currently, I've got a more martially inclined "wild warforged" idea brewing with an emphasis on Stone Dragon and Iron Heart.


The Dread Commander is up! The class abilities as-is might be a bit over the top, but considering it's a Marshal/Hexblade PrC, I felt justified in the power creep.

Quick PEACH!


Pre-reqs
I dislike alignment requirements, but that's more personal taste than anything.
Intimidate 9 means you're probably Hexblade 4/Marshal 2 before entering. You only need Hexblade 1/Marshal 2 to get the specials down, but Mettle and the Dark Companion ACF are both very delicious for Hexblades.

I can't find the Frightful Presence feat. Draconomicon has Awaken Frightful Presence, but that requires you to be a dragon to get it. Similarly, Races of the Dragon has a couple Draconic feats that emulate a very weak version of Frightful Presence, but doing so requires upwards of two feats.

For a replacement, you could go with either Imperious Command (Drow of the Underdark) or Dreadful Wrath (Player's Guide to Faerun). Honestly, I'd say go with Imperious Command or something else like Skill Focus: Intimidate. If it wasn't for the stupid type restriction on Awaken Frightful Presence, it'd be perfect.

Just found the feat Frightful Presence. Carry on.

Skills, BAB, etc.
Good BAB is nice. D10 HD fits. 4+INT on skills helps. Good Fort/Will does, too. Full-casting is very nice, but it is most likely going towards Hexblade casting, so no worries.

Aura of Dread is very nice. You should give an example character's bonuses, just for clarity's sake.

Inspire Terror should probably have a minimum uses per day (Say, X+CHA mod) where X increases with levels. Twice CHA mod scales in an odd fashion. Inspire Focus has the odd effect of "turning off" your marshal abilities. I'd recommend tweaking the wording so the Dread Commander can still rally his troops. Inspire Eternal Servitude is a silly capstone. I like it, but you should mention limitations on how allies can be raised, how many HPs they come back with, etc.

Armored Mage is a solid class feature, if a little "bland." You should mention if it works on shields or not.

Fear Immunity fits. I like it.

Choke out the Weakness is incredibly silly. Most of those effects make sense to remove, but prone caught my eye.:smallbiggrin: As is, trading attacks for removing debuffs is amazing. You should mention if there is any limitation on uses per day or what not.

Arcana of War is interesting. I know Races of Stone has a feat that circumvents needing to cast defensively so long as you have a shield. This class feature just ignores the shield (and the damage, kind of) and casts away. Not bad.

Incarnation of Terror is mostly filler, but solid filler for someone with any amount of Intimidate focus.

Harbour no Traitor is basically +yes to Sense Motive. The flanking immunity bit is odd, but I like it. Maybe require the "know all lies" bit to be against targets affected by the aura?

Greater Aura of Dread is nice for the increased range. The debuff seems a bit too situational, mainly because Hexblade spells are going to have a fairly low save DC.

Terrifying Entity makes me want to grab the Goad feat to force people to attack me.:smalltongue: On that note, maybe throw in a penalty to attack the Dread Commander even if they succeed or in the odd case where there are no other targets.

[TheGeckoKing]

Quick PEACH!

Yay!


Aura of Dread is very nice. You should give an example character's bonuses, just for clarity's sake.

Gotcha.


Inspire Terror should probably have a minimum uses per day (Say, X+CHA mod) where X increases with levels. Twice CHA mod scales in an odd fashion. Inspire Focus has the odd effect of "turning off" your marshal abilities.

Yeah, that's probably for the best.


I'd recommend tweaking the wording so the Dread Commander can still rally his troops.

Done.


Inspire Eternal Servitude is a silly capstone. I like it, but you should mention limitations on how allies can be raised, how many HPs they come back with, etc.

I forgot about the loss of the Con score. Will rectify.


Armored Mage is a solid class feature, if a little "bland." You should mention if it works on shields or not.

Shields are now mentioned.


Choke out the Weakness is incredibly silly. Most of those effects make sense to remove, but prone caught my eye.:smallbiggrin: As is, trading attacks for removing debuffs is amazing. You should mention if there is any limitation on uses per day or what not.


I was hoping the fact that you're punching your friends back into fighting order would be a limiter enough to avoid uses per day and such things. Maybe it would be more balanced it the Dread Commander did lethal damage instead.


Arcana of War is interesting. I know Races of Stone has a feat that circumvents needing to cast defensively so long as you have a shield. This class feature just ignores the shield (and the damage, kind of) and casts away. Not bad.


Yeah, I felt the Hexblade's casting was gimped enough being half-caster and all, and what with it being in the front lines, didn't think being forced to make Concentration checks all the time was fair.


Harbour no Traitor is basically +yes to Sense Motive. The flanking immunity bit is odd, but I like it. Maybe require the "know all lies" bit to be against targets affected by the aura?

The sticky problem is that the aura only affects allies, and the Dread Commander wouldn't think of someone as an ally if they thought they were being lied to. Or it could only affect people the Dread Commander though were their friend, or I could just make it simple and just say "no lies". Mainly because i've confused myself a bit. :smallconfused:


Greater Aura of Dread is nice for the increased range. The debuff seems a bit too situational, mainly because Hexblade spells are going to have a fairly low save DC.

More of a DC increase? A different, more relevant effect?


Terrifying Entity makes me want to grab the Goad feat to force people to attack me.:smalltongue: On that note, maybe throw in a penalty to attack the Dread Commander even if they succeed or in the odd case where there are no other targets.


That is an awesome idea, and i'm adding it in.

Thanks a bunch for the PEACH, btw!

[NineThePuma]

Mine is ending up catering to the Hordificer with a touch of Gish, and is actually quite awesome.

EDIT: Basics are up. I'll probably end up tweaking a lot of stuff around though. Probably swap Magitech Upgrades to 5/10 levels instead of 3/10 and add Magitech Sense upgrades. Note that the entry is very late and the actual difficult ability to grab is Improved Homunculus, which is a level 9 grab on a Wizard instead of an Artificer.

Magitech Templar is a minimum 4 levels, so yeah. I might tweak entry around so you can enter at 9th level, but don't hold your breath.

I may or may not add a feat that lets you combine Magitech Templar and Artificer for determining the DCs of your Magitech Upgrades and your artificer level for the purposes of Artificer Knowledge (and possibly another feature).

[flabort]

Are using homebrew base classes acceptable? Are using SOMEONE ELSE'S base classes, with their given permission acceptable?
If either of those are no, or if I just can't come up with anything else:
Is fusing a non-class to a class acceptable? I'm thinking Lycanthrope-to-something, either arcanist, some UA variant, or... Hmm. I don't know.

[NineThePuma]

I believe a previous entry used Ozodrin and Xenotheurgy and managed to win the contest. I think Hybrid Theory 1 is the one that did it. Hybrid Theory 2 used Limit Dragoon and Xenotheurgy together.

[ErrantX]

Hm... two thoughts bouncing around right now, wanted to get your opinions on them.

Heritors of the Unknown (Better name pending), a group of Duskblade/Totemists that have taken to offering the souls of the world to the Far Realms in exchange for power, while channeling the power of the far realms into this world, applying it's twisted physics to this world's own, and the
Rune Sages (Better name also pernding), a group of Binder/Sorcerers who go back to the very roots of magic, eventually learning to wield the awesomely powerful spellcasting style of the ancients.


I like Rune Sages myself, as I love Binders and sorcery is just plain cool.


Hmmmmm..... Just had a lot of time free up so I've come up with a few ideas. Can anyone give me their input?

- Blades of Chaos: An ozdrin/martial adapt who uses his flesh to summon the blade of chaos. Is able to summon it in groups to attack, and create a "snake" of blades with this feature.

- Disciple of Ashardalon: A warlock/dragonfire adapt/binder who focuses on following in Ashardalon's footsteps, eventually replacing their heart with one of fiendish origins.

-hmmmm...... I had another one but it seems to evade me at the moment. :smalltongue:

My vote goes to Blades of Chaos, as the ozdrin and maneuvers together to do this is something out of a Tzimisce's darkest fantasies.


Are using homebrew base classes acceptable? Are using SOMEONE ELSE'S base classes, with their given permission acceptable?
If either of those are no, or if I just can't come up with anything else:
Is fusing a non-class to a class acceptable? I'm thinking Lycanthrope-to-something, either arcanist, some UA variant, or... Hmm. I don't know.

Its been fine in the past to use other's work. Most often I've seen xenotheurgy, the ozdrin, the Harrowed, and my own Ebon Initiate used as basis, and Limit Dragoon as well. I may be forgetting others but I've allowed it in the past. Its considered good form to ask someone to use their work.

And lastly yes it must be two classes. UA variants are fine, as they are WotC produced, but template and class isn't in the spirit of the rules. Now you could say make a ranger/druid fuse that does lycanthropic stuff perhaps? I dunno, just an idea.

-X

[zagan]

Just checking are we allowed to create an hybrid of two system (like incarnum and ToB, or magic and truenaming) or must it be specific class (like totemist/warblade or wizard/truenamer) with prereq design so it's way harder or impossible to qualify without level in the intended class ?

[ErrantX]

Just checking are we allowed to create an hybrid of two system (like incarnum and ToB, or magic and truenaming) or must it be specific class (like totemist/warblade or wizard/truenamer) with prereq design so it's way harder or impossible to qualify without level in the intended class ?

Well try to cater to two specific classes, but if you put in "must be able to cast arcane spells of 2nd level" that's any arcane caster. Must cast prep spells is wizard, cleric, wu jen, etc. See what I mean? Have your target two for the optimal/intended entry, and if anyone else can squeeze in then the more the merrier.

-X

[NineThePuma]

Like how I'm catering to Magitech Templar and Artificer, but you could technically get in as a Wizard. It's just much more trying to and eats a lot more feats.

[enderlord99]

Has to be base classes; no combination of prestige classes please. Kind of takes what little "prestige" that prestige classes have left to them out of it.

But... I wanted to combine druid, dread necromancer, and Fax Celestis' "all thief" prc...:smallfrown:

Could the next contest be one where the theme is that they require other prestige classes to enter? ("Yo dawg" would be a good title.) Please?

[ErrantX]

Like how I'm catering to Magitech Templar and Artificer, but you could technically get in as a Wizard. It's just much more trying to and eats a lot more feats.

Precisely.


But... I wanted to combine druid, dread necromancer, and Fax Celestis' "all thief" prc...:smallfrown:

Could the next contest be one where the theme is that they require other prestige classes to enter? ("Yo dawg" would be a good title.) Please?

Sorry mate, but thems the breaks. Base classes only. Prolly not next contest, too much of the same thing. The other downside to that is that it makes for a very specific character to get into it, which is something I'm leary of. If I do that, what I might do is a revival contest and say that everyone has to pick from classes in the base class and prestige class contest's past to build from. Opinions on that?

-X

[enderlord99]

Precisely.



Sorry mate, but thems the breaks. Base classes only. Prolly not next contest, too much of the same thing. The other downside to that is that it makes for a very specific character to get into it, which is something I'm leary of. If I do that, what I might do is a revival contest and say that everyone has to pick from classes in the base class and prestige class contest's past to build from. Opinions on that?

-X

The "revival contest" thing sounds good.:smallsmile:

[zagan]

Well try to cater to two specific classes, but if you put in "must be able to cast arcane spells of 2nd level" that's any arcane caster. Must cast prep spells is wizard, cleric, wu jen, etc. See what I mean? Have your target two for the optimal/intended entry, and if anyone else can squeeze in then the more the merrier.

-X

I need to change my plan then, my incarnum/tob Prc is too open and I don't want to force a specific entry on it. I'll probably post it outside the contest at some point. I have other idea anyway.

[NineThePuma]

Well, what's the primary stat for the PrC?

[zagan]

Well, what's the primary stat for the PrC?

None in particular, incarnum mostly need Con and perhaps wis for the save or (cha for soulborn) and the ToB class each have on important mental stat.
But as i said I have other idea, perhaps artificer/bard that create unique magical instrument or warlock/incarnate that infuse his eldtrch blast with essentia. Not sure yet.

[Xzoltar]

Just to be sure before continuing to work on the True Arcanist, are we supposed to limit ourself to Two class to mix together or can I qualify with having to be able to cast from 4 different Arcane Class ?

[ErrantX]

Just to be sure before continuing to work on the True Arcanist, are we supposed to limit ourself to Two class to mix together or can I qualify with having to be able to cast from 4 different Arcane Class ?

That's risky to do, but if you can make it work, then good luck. Just make sure that you take the abilities of those classes and blend them together for a new ability(ies) that are unique and derivitive of their parent classes.

-X

[boomwolf]

Personal note-I really don't see how you can pull this off without making it a tier 0.1 somehow, even if it only advances magic and grants NO abilities...and overpowering is NOT a good thing.

[ErrantX]

Personal note-I really don't see how you can pull this off without making it a tier 0.1 somehow, even if it only advances magic and grants NO abilities...and overpowering is NOT a good thing.

A very real danger, to be fair.

On other topics, how goes everyone's works?

-X

[enderlord99]

Can we make homebrew in the contest that relies on other homebrew? Or does the stuff we use have to be WotC-published?

[boomwolf]

Not that hot, but I have multiple paths I am probing ATM to see what fits my liking...Defiantly going for a knight half, as I wanted to make a knight PrC for a long time, but not sure about the other half...

So far I'm thinking on mixing knight-bard, but alignment makes it weird. other then finding just what mindset can make this work I need to figure possible abilities, and everything I get in this mix seems to be more bardish and little or no knightly...

Truenamer-knight also considered but as both are tier 5 (and truenamer arguably even that), I can hardly see m making that class do anything useful without been obligatory to take it if you want to use any of the classes, as both get 0 support otherwise...

Third option is knight/dread necro, they seem to fit nicely, as a non-caster necromancer, but then again death knights are dime-a-dozen...

[JoshuaZ]

On other topics, how goes everyone's works?

-X

I should have the remaining Dances up sometime this weekend. I'm also going to make a separate post outside the contest since there are a few spells, items and feats that should probably be separate from the contest.

Question about the hybrid nature of my class. As currently stands, it works best for a sorcerer/bard entry but dread necromancer/bard and wizard/bard are also possible entries (although the last would have severe MAD issues). Is this hybdridy enough?

[EdroGrimshell]

I'm having a little trouble with the refined fusions, but i'll put up the first few in a week or so

[NineThePuma]

I'm thinking about what to do with fluff, but homework is bugging the crap outta me.

[TravelLog]

Not that hot, but I have multiple paths I am probing ATM to see what fits my liking...Defiantly going for a knight half, as I wanted to make a knight PrC for a long time, but not sure about the other half...

So far I'm thinking on mixing knight-bard, but alignment makes it weird. other then finding just what mindset can make this work I need to figure possible abilities, and everything I get in this mix seems to be more bardish and little or no knightly...

Truenamer-knight also considered but as both are tier 5 (and truenamer arguably even that), I can hardly see m making that class do anything useful without been obligatory to take it if you want to use any of the classes, as both get 0 support otherwise...

Third option is knight/dread necro, they seem to fit nicely, as a non-caster necromancer, but then again death knights are dime-a-dozen...

Go Knight-Totemist!

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. The Dancer of the Threshold is up pretty fully with all dances included. If anyone has time, PEACHing would be appreciated.

[boomwolf]

Except I don't really GET totemists, actually I don't get incarnum period. I know how it generally works,but not how to work WITH it, not even for character creation.

[ErrantX]

Except I don't really GET totemists, actually I don't get incarnum period. I know how it generally works,but not how to work WITH it, not even for character creation.

Perhaps combine Knight with Warmage and make for some kind of Mageknight? Alternately, perhaps a Knight/Cleric and make a How-it-should-be True Paladin prestige class. Druid/Knight who uses their animal companion as a mount and they are Knights of the Old Code, following the Old Ways of the world (very Arthurian). Consider using someone's homebrew, and make an ozodrin/knight who arms himself in armor of flesh with weapons of bone or use my Generator and combine it with Knight to make a Techno Knight.

Just some ideas. :smallsmile:

-X

[enderlord99]

You know how it's so common nowadays (to the point of being cliche) to have a prc that combines a character's animal companion, familiar, psycrystal, etc? The Fusionist in this very contest is just one of many examples. I have something like that in mind, but mine has a bit if a twist.

EDIT: I actually changed my mind on entering it in this contest, because it doesn't really combine multiple classes. Instead, look for it elsewhere in the Homebrew forum.

[cooperflood]

A couple of quick PEACHs. These are just my initial impressions, more complete versions will be forthcoming.

Iron Sage of the Chosen by BelGareth

Mechanically there isn't anything wrong with this class. It does a solid job creating a nice blend of spellcasting and unarmed swordsage. All of the abilities work well and none are overpowered. That said the class falls flat. Nothing about the class is really that interesting, its just your standard hybrid type abilities. For example you use the word IRON through out the class, but none of the mechanics really exemplify the element.

If it were me I would try to make the class more specialized. Right now the class has access to the standard 6 swordsage schools. The class would immediately have more focus if you reduced that number. I would also choose to tie the class more closely to either Favored Soul or Shugenja. If you chose Favored Soul I could see making Devoted Spirit one of the class school. If you choose Shugenja I would try to create some class abilites tied to Element Focus: Earth.


Dread Commander by TheGeckoKing

Marshal and Hexblade are two classes which I always have liked despite the fact that mechanically they're mechanically lacking. The overall flavor and theme of the class is excellent. Most of the class abilities really do a good job of representing this overall feeling.

Why does this class advance spellcasting? As it is written I would enter this class as Marshall 2/Hexblade 1/Sorcerer (or Dread Necromancer) 3. You have admitted that a number of your class features are overpowered/strong to help make up for the weakness of the two classes it blends (Marshal and Hexblade), but if the class advanced a full spellcaster the character is just plain overpowered. Either drop spellcasting or your going to need to dramatically revise the power level of many of the class abilities.

Aura of Dread is too good with or without spellcasting. Hexblade Curse is a good ability, it's just too limited. 1-5 times per day is just pathetic. The at-will aura fixes almost all of the problems the class feature has, allowing it effect almost any foe you meet. But when a foe first enters the Aura of Dread they should get a save. Once a foe passes the save they are immune to the effect for 24 hours. Even with these changes it will be a very strong and signature ability.

[TheGeckoKing]

About the spellcasting

Remember, a full caster loses 3 levels minimum to enter, so Sorcerers don't get their 9th's (which I hear is some sort of blasphemy or something). I could make it Spontaneous spellcasting only, which would stop the Wizards getting in. Otherwise, the spellcasting is just there to progress Hexblade casting, which in itself isn't that bad.



About Aura of Dread.


If you REALLY think it needs a save, I can add one in.

Thanks for the peaches, anyway.

[BelGareth]

A couple of quick PEACHs. These are just my initial impressions, more complete versions will be forthcoming.

Iron Sage of the Chosen by BelGareth

Mechanically there isn't anything wrong with this class. It does a solid job creating a nice blend of spellcasting and unarmed swordsage. All of the abilities work well and none are overpowered. That said the class falls flat. Nothing about the class is really that interesting, its just your standard hybrid type abilities. For example you use the word IRON through out the class, but none of the mechanics really exemplify the element.

If it were me I would try to make the class more specialized. Right now the class has access to the standard 6 swordsage schools. The class would immediately have more focus if you reduced that number. I would also choose to tie the class more closely to either Favored Soul or Shugenja. If you chose Favored Soul I could see making Devoted Spirit one of the class school. If you choose Shugenja I would try to create some class abilites tied to Element Focus: Earth.



Thanks! that was quite insightful, I will probably define it a little more, and I especially like the idea of having Devoted Spirit in there.

[Amechra]

Throwing in my own idea; the Squire of Ashardalon, a Warlock/Dragonfire Adept that treats their breath weapon as their Eldritch Blast, gains eldritch scales of malevolent might, and is in general a freakin' beast.

'twill be EPIC, in my opinion.

[boomwolf]

Perhaps combine Knight with Warmage and make for some kind of Mageknight? Alternately, perhaps a Knight/Cleric and make a How-it-should-be True Paladin prestige class. Druid/Knight who uses their animal companion as a mount and they are Knights of the Old Code, following the Old Ways of the world (very Arthurian). Consider using someone's homebrew, and make an ozodrin/knight who arms himself in armor of flesh with weapons of bone or use my Generator and combine it with Knight to make a Techno Knight.

Just some ideas. :smallsmile:

-X

Interesting idea, out mageknight is as overused as deathknight, druid/knight I don't really see working, ozodrin I don't personally like, and I don't know any other homebrew that uses CHA and resembles melee enough to mix it, with the exception of my netherhost-who needs a rework anyway as his current form is poor.

Still on the prowl...might change from knight to something else if I wont find a proper partner...

[Morph Bark]

Interesting idea, out mageknight is as overused as deathknight, druid/knight I don't really see working, ozodrin I don't personally like, and I don't know any other homebrew that uses CHA and resembles melee enough to mix it, with the exception of my netherhost-who needs a rework anyway as his current form is poor.

Still on the prowl...might change from knight to something else if I wont find a proper partner...

Cha-dependant homebrew base classes:

A Marshal fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186681)
The Symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112545) is an oldie I haven't seen in use much.
The Witch-Doctor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60146) by The Glyphstone
The Planeswalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189767)
The Ebon Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297)
The Hemoscribe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176746) uses it for some runes


There were more in my favourites, but they were all paladin-y or mageblade/deathknight-like.


EDIT: Damn your entry, EdroGrimshell! *shakesfist* :smalltongue:

[cooperflood]

I think a Knight/Dragon Shaman hybrid could be very cool. I could see the class granting allies greater (or unique) draconic aura benefits vs enemies effected by a Knight's Challenge.

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. Brief PEACHes for those I've had time to look at:

Iron Sage:

Consider maybe adding Knowledge(Arcana) as a class skill? They are alreay losing at least 1 (and probably more) caster levels compared to a full caster. It might make sense to give them spell progression also at level 1.


At 3rd level, a Iron Sage can expend a readied maneuver to empower a divine spell with a metamagic feat that she knows. The spell level adjustment of the metamagic feat must be less than or equal to 1/2 the level of the maneuver expended. The Iron Sage can use this ability number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier.

This is potentially extremely powerful. As written it allow one to boost metamagic to level beyond your normal maximal spell level. Maybe add a restriction from doing this?

within the deities realm of interest
Possible typo. Should "deities" be "deity's"?



Dread Commander:


This is very well done. This could be very good for an antagonist, possibly as a BBEG.

Harbor No Traitor is as written extremely powerful, especially if one is in a campaign that has any substantial amount of intrigue. Maybe change it to a straight bonus to Sense Motive to determine if someone is lying?


Glitterhell Rutterkin



This is an extremely original PrC.

A glitterhell rutterkin may manifest an unaumented prevenom weapon power without expending any power points
Minor typo- "unaugmented". Also, given the class features, it might make instead make sense for them to simply be able to may manifest the unaugmented part of the power for free.



Scion:




In a 1 hour ritual at the beginning of the day, the Scion may exchange a number of Invocations equal to half their class level for a number of spells from the Sorcerer spell list, which they use as spell-like abilities at will.
Should this be equal to half their class level or instead up to half their class level? The second makes slightly more sense since as written one is forced to sacrifice more as one goes up in levels.

due to this fact, whoever the current leader of the cult goes by that name on official business
Grammar- should that be "whoever is"?


Overall, I'm liking a lot how this contest is going. So far, there's a lot of really neat stuff.

[TheGeckoKing]

Ok. Brief PEACHes
This is very well done. This could be very good for an antagonist, possibly as a BBEG.

Snazzy.


Harbor No Traitor is as written extremely powerful, especially if one is in a campaign that has any substantial amount of intrigue. Maybe change it to a straight bonus to Sense Motive to determine if someone is lying?

Errrrrg. I'm loathe to just give out flat bonuses. Maybe a Will Save if the lier is aware of the magical effect?

[JoshuaZ]

Snazzy.



Errrrrg. I'm loathe to just give out flat bonuses. Maybe a Will Save if the lier is aware of the magical effect?

That seems reasonable.

[BelGareth]

Updated the Iron Sage of the Chosen with some more Iron'y abilities, refined some text, added some more fluff.

Have to say, Amechra, you did one hell of a job on the Scion of Ashardalon, props.

[Amechra]

Thanks; you didn't do a bad job yourself.

[boomwolf]

The Hemoscribe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176746)


There were more in my favourites, but they were all paladin-y or mageblade/deathknight-like.:


Ho, but this is where we disagree, a mage-knight/death-knight is entirely different from a BLOOD-knight:smallamused:


Let the brewing commence!

[Glimbur]

I'm working on a Warlock/Ninja. The motive is a mix of "this class needs fixing" and "I have seen too many kung fu movies". I am cautiously optimistic.

Edit: It's somewhat done. Could use more invocations and more ki boosts for existing invocations.

[MoleMage]

Crunch is up on Vindictive Fist (Paladin/Monk).

Thoughts/PEACH (Honestly small thoughts are easier to sift through than full-blown PEACH layouts for me, so thoughts/concerns?)

Also, I seem to remember in previous installments, Sample NPCs were semi-optional. Is that still the case? Mind, it's been a long long time since I last submitted one. I think it may have been Hybrid Theory II...

Anyhow, before I get the "how to play" and "how to adapt" situations set up, I'd like some feedback on crunch. Subscriptions are forthcoming...

[Glimbur]

Vindictive Fist: I don't like the name. Vindictive, to me, is too negative of an adjective. Consider Radiant Fist, Fist of Righteousness, or something less cheesy but also more clearly LG.

Intended entry seems to be Monk 4 / Paladin 4. Other options include Monk 4 / Paladin 1 / Cleric 1 / [full bab] 4, but that's kind of silly. Monk 4 / Crusader 6 / Cleric 1 also works... I guess the point is that there's only one reasonable entry to the class, which makes it easier to balance but makes characters that take it look pretty similar.

I can't fault you for 4+ skills, 2+ is really restrictive especially without a need for Int. Survival isn't on the Monk or the Paladin list, but that's not a huge deal. Just a bit off-theme.

Full BAB and all good saves is pretty strong.

Monk ability stacking is fine.

Progressing smite faster than Paladin is a bit iffy... you do lose out on the mount and the casting, but still.

Holy Mark is not a big deal, but they still turn worse than a Paladin does due to the Monk levels.

Mark of Vindication is kind of limited, but auto-confirming crits is somewhat strong.

First level is stuffed with abilities. I might move the Mark later.

Ki Turning is cute. Not all that strong, but cute.

Honestly, none of these abilities are very impressive. The class could be 5 levels with some compression of features, it just isn't cool enough for 10 levels.

Fluff needs to be added.

[Owrtho]

Starting crunch and fluff is up for my entry. Some adjustments may be needed for balance. Also if anyone could find help me find a good picture to go with the class it would be appreciated as would be feedback.

Owrtho

[MoleMage]

Vindictive Fist: I don't like the name. Vindictive, to me, is too negative of an adjective. Consider Radiant Fist, Fist of Righteousness, or something less cheesy but also more clearly LG.

Intended entry seems to be Monk 4 / Paladin 4. Other options include Monk 4 / Paladin 1 / Cleric 1 / [full bab] 4, but that's kind of silly. Monk 4 / Crusader 6 / Cleric 1 also works... I guess the point is that there's only one reasonable entry to the class, which makes it easier to balance but makes characters that take it look pretty similar.

I can't fault you for 4+ skills, 2+ is really restrictive especially without a need for Int. Survival isn't on the Monk or the Paladin list, but that's not a huge deal. Just a bit off-theme.

Full BAB and all good saves is pretty strong.

Monk ability stacking is fine.

Progressing smite faster than Paladin is a bit iffy... you do lose out on the mount and the casting, but still.

Holy Mark is not a big deal, but they still turn worse than a Paladin does due to the Monk levels.

Mark of Vindication is kind of limited, but auto-confirming crits is somewhat strong.

First level is stuffed with abilities. I might move the Mark later.

Ki Turning is cute. Not all that strong, but cute.

Honestly, none of these abilities are very impressive. The class could be 5 levels with some compression of features, it just isn't cool enough for 10 levels.

Fluff needs to be added.

I'll consider other names, but I rather like the feel of it. Inevitables are similar in theme; these guys are supposed to seek out evil or wrongdoing and snuff it out of hand. They're good, not necessarily nice.

Intended entry is level 8 with Monk 4/Pal 4. I'm aware of and okay with other possible entries, but I wanted that to be most efficient.

The saves thing you're right about. I'll leave the Full BAB and drop it to good Fort, Ref.

Something I got right, hurrah!

All the rest in no particular order: if I drop it to 5 levels, I can make it three extra uses of Smite (1, 3, 5) which only gives them one extra overall because of levels lost to this class and to monk. Holy Mark and Ki Turning combined into a single feature at level two. Ranged Ki strike and Ranged Ki Smite combined into a single feature at level three. Ki Smite available at level one along with monk abilities progression. Flurry Smite available at level 4, and Mark of Vindication available in its full-power form (minus the party benefits) at level 5. Does that seem more reasonable?

Also, auto-confirming crits was something borrowed from the Bless Weapon spell, a first level paladin spell (gained at level 4). Mark of Vindication as it was presented here would be available at level nine, and if I go through with squishing the class down would be available at level 13 (though more powerful).

Finally, you might want to recheck the wording of Holy Mark:

Holy Mark
The Vindictive Fist's hands, tattooed with the holy symbol of their god, count as a holy symbol and can be used as such whenever a holy symbol is called for. Their effective cleric level for Turn Undead is increased by 4, and their levels in Vindictive Fist stack with levels in any other class that grants Turn Undead for determining their effective cleric level.


It cancels out the Monk Levels (Turn undead at +4 cleric level), meaning a Monk 4/Paladin 4/Vindictive Fist 5 would turn as a 10th level cleric (1 paladin, 5 Fist, 4 Holy Mark), the same as a 13th level paladin.

[Amechra]

Can someone do a full PEACH of the Scion of Ashardalon, please?

[JoshuaZ]

Can someone do a full PEACH of the Scion of Ashardalon, please?

Sure, if I get a PEACH of the Dancer in exchange.:)

I mentioned in a post above two minor issues with the Scion. Other than those it looks pretty solid.

Additional comments: Right now one is losing a lot of invoking levels since at quite a few levels one only gets +1 to the lower invoking level. Invoking is already a comparatively weak form of magic. You can probably change levels 4 and 7 so they are both +1/+1.

Also, there are in Dragon Magic some sorcerer spells that get special bonuses if cast by dragons. Similarly, in BOVD there's a similar bit for demons. It might make sense to have them get those bonuses when using those spells as part of Memories of the Primeval Sorcerer.

[Forever Curious]

It's been a while sine I popped in here, but I'm thinking Witch/Archivist for my class. I'll see if I can whip something up.

[Owrtho]

Well, did a minor update to my class. Specifically added a note about some types of seeds and a feat.
That said, I'm willing to exchange a peach if anyone is up for it.

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

I LIVE ONCE MORE!

Having just acquired internet once more, I shall check up on my PMs, clear my box, and eagerly await the next PrC contest ^_^

[EdroGrimshell]

Welcome back LG, been a while since i've seen you active on the boards

[NineThePuma]

Great to see you back, Mi'lord. Sadly, I'm going to drop from this contest. I just couldn't focus.

[Glimbur]

PEACH! Scion of Ashardalon!

It looks like it's a Warlock/DFA PrC. Obvious entry is DFA 2 Warlock 3. I'm a little unclear why a class with Binder fluff is double invoker based, but we'll see how it goes.

4+ skills is fine, Warlock is kind of shafted with 2+ anyway. UMD is really good, but the original classes have it so it's probably fine.

3/4 BAB and only good Will is very Warlock. If you want a power boost you could throw in good Fort, we'll see if that's advisable.

Demonic Heart makes this multiclassing not hurt very much. Throw in a Practiced Spellcaster and you can be a nearly full Warlock, similar to the Ultimate Magus trick.

Breath of A is lacking something: it lets you stack warlock and DFA levels for breath weapon damage, but it doesn't include Scion of A levels meaning you just do 5th level DFA damage until 15th level. This is probably not as intended. You might also consider letting them trade any blast shapes they have now for different invocations of the same grade.

Bonus AC is thematic and not that worrisome.

Presence of the Draconian Demon... can people tell the source of the non-lethal damage? Because undetectable damage can be very mean in nominally non-combat situations. The 10th level ability of this Presence is pretty brutal, as it turns Shaken into Frightened i.e. '-2 to stuff' becomes instead 'must run away'. Since this doesn't seem to be limited to fear only from this ability this gives potential for serious fear stacking. The only thing keeping this from being zomgwtfgood is that only the frightful presence ignores fear immunity and it only works on people with fewer hit dice than you i.e. chumps. Does the 6th level telepathy still cause 1 nonlethal/round?

Memories of the Primeval Sorcerer will be used for Wings of Cover. What is the caster level on these spells? Depending on that answer, it will probably also be used for Wings of Flurry. Wraithstrike is less likely but still scary. There are other spells which shouldn't be at will.

Rebuke... is it an immediate action, or a free action that can be taken out of turn? It's probably more balanced as an immediate action.

Archetype is probably not a big deal, I"m too lazy to look at the spells and verify that.

Fluff looks fine. I'm worried about the power of a few things, and you're kind of hemmed in by the fact that "pact" is associated with binders, but you're using the term responsibly.

[Owrtho]

Added two more seed of strangeness augments to the sower of strangeness. For those curious as to which, they are the two dealing with swallow whole. Wording looks a bit messy on them, so suggestions to fix that would be appreciated.

Owrtho

[zagan]

I finally manage to finish and post my Eldritch soul Prc, I was afraid of missing the deadline with all the trouble I had with my PC. It's not my best work, particularly the fluff, which is way rushed, but still the result is nice. Not a winner but I've taken pleasure working on it and it's enough.

[Frog Dragon]

Nearly done with a warforged artificer/warrior class hybrid. In the meantime, PEACH?

Edit: Finished, down to the sample encounter. It's kind of specific, but ah well.

[Owrtho]

Made a few edits to sower of strangeness. Most notably changed entry requirements after Kellus was kind enough to point out the HD requirement on the Unknowable Amputation ability that I had missed. You may now enter the class at level 6 as intended. Also fixed Preternatural Predomination to automatically succeed if the host is mindless, as they can't mentally oppose you using your features on them. Other than that I also fixed a few typos.

Owrtho

[JoshuaZ]

Are the contest entries supposed to be finished by midnight tonight or is the deadline midnight tomorrow night?

[Hazzardevil]

I'm rather pleased with my work for this contest, although I am worried I will be deducted points for having a similar idea to someone else, although quite honestly I hadn't seen the other Commissar prestige class before I had started my own.

[JoshuaZ]

Ok. I just added a picture for mine. I had another picture in mind, but there doesn't seem to be any copy of it on the web. It is a certain painting that I know the physical location of. If the contest is still open tomorrow (still uncertain about whether entries need to be done tonight or midnight of tomorrow), I'll go and take a picture.

[Owrtho]

In my experience, the date listed as the deadline is the last day you have to work on it. So you would have until the end of the 19th. That said, I may be wrong. So anyone care to exchange last minute critiques?

Owrtho

[JoshuaZ]

So anyone care to exchange last minute critiques?

Owrtho

Sure. I haven't gotten any real PEACHing of mine, so any input at this point would be great.

Regarding your class: It is really well done, and combines two really neat homebrew base classes that deserved to be combined. The total set of class features seems small, especially the last two levels. Lots of class features depend numerically on the class level, so this should't be too bad. But something at 10th level would still seem to make sense. An obvious ability for 10th level would be something that made it so that levels of other classes and PrCs which advance grafting also count as ozodrin levels for purposes of total Form Points.

Also, it may make sense for Strange Bonds to be (Su) rather than (Ex) given what it does. Feels more supernatural than extraordinary.

Sense Seeds may need to specify the level of accuracy that one gets for the distance and direction. Also, what happens if the target is on another plane?

Minor nitpicks:


The shadow of the black forest on the other hand seemed to seek improvement of what was once a pleasant and safe forest an hours ride from a quaint town.

Shadow is a proper noun here, right? If so it should be capitalized.



Due to his work it came to be considered a dangerous place where abominations roamed and men might emerge something else. It is said nothing in there is incapable of killing a normal man with ease, not even things like squirrels.

I'm not sure I'm parsing the second sentence correctly, but I don't understand what it means. It seems like a very roundabout and awkward was of saying that everything can easily kill people. Maybe you mean something like "It is said that every living thing there is capable of killing a normal man with ease, even things like squirrels."

[Owrtho]

Well then, lets see about your class. First, I'll note I quite like the concept. It's always fun to see a dancing based class, and necromancy is one of my favourite schools of magic.


ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Perform(Dance) 8 ranks, 2 rank in another Perform skill, Knowledge(religion) 2 ranks, knowledge(arcana) 2 ranks, spellcraft(2) ranks

Well, first thing I noticed, on spellcraft you seem put the ranks in parentheses, while not doing so for the other skills.

Skills seem fine, they match the theme of the class.

The spellcasting progression makes me a bit wary, but seeing as you need levels in a different class from the one being advanced (even if it is a class with minor progression of its own), it may be fine.

Bardic music usage advancement fits fine.


Dark Lore(ex):Dancers have deep understanding of the darker aspects of the world. They gain an ability functions like the bardic knowledge class feature with their Dancer level as their effective bard level. This ability applies only to knowledge about necromancy, the undead, or other morbid or macabre subjects. If the Dancer has the bardic lore class feature or some similar feature from another class, the Dancer levels stack for issues that Dark Lore would apply. So for example, someone were Bard 2/Wiz 4/Dancer 1, their effective Bard level for information about an ancient undead lord would treat their bard level as 3, but a question about elven archery would use the default bard level of 2.

Nice and flavourful. However, it seems you are missing the word 'that' in the second sentence.


While dancing, generally you may take no more than a five foot step, but may take any free actions as usual, and may take one move action. You may not take any other actions except as where noted.

This line doesn't quite make sense. Might want to clarify it.


Similarly, a too much Dancing on a single day can be tiring. If you danced more than your three times your class number * your con modifier rounds (minimum 3) without having had a chance to rest
for at least 8 hours then you must make a fortitude save each time you begin a Dance equal to 5 + the total number of rounds you have Danced since you last rested above your normal Dacing limit (3 * class number * con modifier).

Just some minor typos, but you need to remove 'a' in the first sentence, and should change class number to class level in the second.


The save DC for any Dance is Ranks in Perform Dance + charisma modifier + dex modifier.

Don't see any real problem with the non-standard DC.


Unless stated otherwise, the effective caster level for a dance that mimics a spell is equal to your number of ranks in Perform(Dance).

I'd suggest stating this can't exceed your total level.


Due to the obscure nature of Dancers' magic, they are difficult to recognize. To recognize that someone is engaging in a magical form of Dance, one must make a DC 20 Spellcraft check (people with at least 2 ranks in Perform(Dance) get a +2 bonus on this check.) A Dancer of the Threshold automatically succeeds at this check.

I might suggest making the bonus require 5 ranks in Perform (Dance) so as to better match with other skill synergies.


Dueling Dance (su):
... Each dance for a round, marshaling your necromantic power through your dance
...
A Dueling Dance dances may not have any benefit from others, such as assistance from backup undead dancers.

A fun ability, if not one likely to be used often. Might be worth expanding it in some way to be usable with willing non-dancers. Anyway, a few typos. The first sentence above should either start with 'they' or have an 's' on the end of dance. The second I'd recommend changing 'dances' to participant.


Disciplined Mind is a nice flavourful ability.

Sense the Opening Door is an interesting ability. Given the flavour of it, it may also be fitting to at some point grant an ability to easily identify creatures as living, non-living, dead, or undead.


Smooth Movements (ex):
At 3rd level, on rounds during which you have initiated a Dance or continued any Dance.you get a +2 competence bonus on all reflex saves and to AC, this becomes +4 at 6th level and +6 at 9th level.

I'd suggest altering the wording to be since the start of your most recent turn, rather than during rounds. Mainly as it currently does not grant the bonus at the start of rounds before your turn arrives in initiative order if you started or continued a dance the previous round.



Death Knows Her Own (ex):
...
Additionally, Dancers may automatically recognize if someone who is dancing is undead.

I might suggest altering this to letting them recognize undead while dancing. As it is, most undead are unlikely to dance. Perhaps alter it to granting the effects of the deathwatch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathwatch.htm) spell while dancing.


Last Dance is an interesting capstone, and while powerful, doesn't seem problematic given its ability to only be used successfully once.

On Age Draining Waltz, I'm not sure the use limit on specific creatures is needed, given the time required to pull it off. Then again, I may be slightly biased with regard to that, as the limit prevents the interesting idea of a Dancer dancing with someone as they gradually get younger, while the other person gradually gets older, until the ageing person eventually dies.

Only skimmed the rest of the dances, though I'l try to look them over in more detail later today. That said, it might be worth adding a feat that allows you to learn additional dances you qualify for, possibly with the prerequisite of already knowing 9 dances, or noting dances learned by the feat don't count for learning other dances. This was a Dancer may continue advancing their dances after reaching level 10.




Regarding your class: It is really well done, and combines two really neat homebrew base classes that deserved to be combined. The total set of class features seems small, especially the last two levels. Lots of class features depend numerically on the class level, so this should't be too bad. But something at 10th level would still seem to make sense. An obvious ability for 10th level would be something that made it so that levels of other classes and PrCs which advance grafting also count as ozodrin levels for purposes of total Form Points.

I'll admit, I did have some trouble trying to come up with a capstone. Initially the implant seed was going to be it, but then I decided that should come sooner. I though the ability to grant others the ability to make seeds and graft them for you might cut it, but it is rather situational. Perhaps I could add the idea I'd had for a feat that would let you graft your seeds onto inanimate things like plants or walls as a capstone. As for the class features depending numerically on class level, I'd thought they mainly were based on the total graft level of seeds hosts had on them. Odd, I'll take a look at that.


Also, it may make sense for Strange Bonds to be (Su) rather than (Ex) given what it does. Feels more supernatural than extraordinary.

Hmm, your right, the ones that mimic spells should likely be supernatural. That said, the others are more intended to show that the grafts are a part of the sower still, and as such have some connection.


Sense Seeds may need to specify the level of accuracy that one gets for the distance and direction. Also, what happens if the target is on another plane?

Well, as I see it they could generally point to in the direction of a seed and estimate about how far it is (depending on their sense of distance). As for if the host is on another plane, I should specify that. They may tell what plane the seed is on, but not what distance or direction it is (and they don't actually know the name of the plane unless they've been there, or know it from another host of a seed going there, then coming back and telling them what the name was).


Shadow is a proper noun here, right? If so it should be capitalized.

Gah, missed that. The Black Forest should be capitalized as well. I'll see to fixing it.


I'm not sure I'm parsing the second sentence correctly, but I don't understand what it means. It seems like a very roundabout and awkward was of saying that everything can easily kill people. Maybe you mean something like "It is said that every living thing there is capable of killing a normal man with ease, even things like squirrels."

I suppose it is somewhat roundabout, though I'd not really noticed it. I was somewhat thinking about it more like locals assuring people there is nothing that is safe to be near in the forest.

Owrtho

[Frog Dragon]

Anyone willing to exchange PEACHes with me? *waves around a basket full of peaches.*

[Hazzardevil]

I will critique your work Frog.



Fist of the Constructed
Just as some warforged reject the fact that they were made as tools of war,
Interesting fluff about a warforged embracing their history of war, but doesn't seem entirely inspired, but I suppose it's a bit late to fix this.



ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Race: Warforged
Spells: Ability to cast second level infusions.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, any Warforged Feat
Skills: 8 Ranks in a craft skill which the warforged can use to repair itself.
Base Attack Bonus: +4

The requirements tell me you'll be level 6 by the time you qualify for this, about where I like prestige classes to be entered, also fits in with most PrC's.


Class Skills
The Fist of the Constructed's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Jump (Str) Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex) and Use Magic Device (Cha)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d8


{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Unarmed Damage|Spellcasting

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Dormant Infusion|1d6|
[/table]

Same Chassis and skills a monk, with artificer skills added in, same setup as most Hybrids.


Unarmed Damage: A Fist of the Constructed deals unarmed and slam attack damage according to the table, unless their damage as a monk or unarmed sworsage of their level + their Fist of the Constructed levels would grant them more damage. The values in the table are given for medium warforged, and change according to size as normal.

Spellcasting: At levels other than 1 and 6, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level as if you had also gained a level in an infusion using class to which he belonged to before adding the prestige class levels. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of the class would have gained. If you had more than one infusion using class prior to becoming a fist of the constructed, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining caster level and spells per day.

Seems right for a monk gish setup, this seems a bit like a fixed version of enlightened fist for a artificer. I don't think it would hurt to change Unarmed Damage to all monk abilities ala Enlightened Fist.


Dormant Infusion: The first thing a fist of the constructed learns is how to mix the magic they create as artificers with the innate forces that make the warforged work, giving them the capability to leave arcane energies dormant within their body.

Interesting, but it could be overpowered, but I don't know Infusions very well.


Shattered Dormancy: At third level, the dormant energies may also be released in an offensive manner. As a swift action, the fist of the constructed may activate up to two dormant infusions. However, instead of gaining their normal benefits, the next attack within the same turn made by the fist of the constructed deals extra untyped damage equal to 2d6 x the combined spell level of the activated infusions.

Useful for a Niche when you need the extra damage, but seems like a lot for not a lot of damage.


Dormant Defense: At fifth level, the dormant infusions may be expended for defense. Using this option is an immediate action, and when you use it, you gain a bonus to saving throws and armor class equal to half the combined spell levels of the infusions you are activating in this manner. In addition you gain DR/- equal to half the combined spell levels of the infusions. These benefits last until the start of your next turn.

Another ability, perhaps less Niche, but the armour class bonus seems small to me, everything else seems fine.


Dormant Renewal: At seventh level, the dormant infusions may instead be expended as renewing energies.
As a swift action, any number of dormant infusions may be expended to repair 2d6 damage x the combined levels of the expended infusions.

I think this ability is fine


Lasting Modification: At second level, the fist of the constructed gains a +1 to his caster level for the purpose of the durations of infusions cast on himself. This bonus increases by one at levels 4, 6, 8 and 10.

Sounds good for a class based around buffs, so this seems fine. Maybe add in the bonus for level 2 as well.


Combat Infusion: At second level, times per day as indicated in the table, the fist of the constructed may cast an infusion with a casting time of one minute or less as a swift action.

A way around something Artificer players hate, no change suggested.


Bonus Feat: At levels 3 and 7, the fist of the constructed gains a bonus warforged feat.

Keep it, although the feats are of limited usefulness.


Constructed Body: The fist of the constructed eventually learns to augment his body using just the energies that are already there.
The fist of the constructed gains a +2 to constitution and becomes immune to critical hits.

A nice ability for something without a standard melee sized HD at most levels.


Body of Artifice: The fist of the constructed becomes able to use the innate qualities of his warforged nature better than ever before.
Any infusion that the fist of the constructed casts on himself has its casting reduced. An infusion with a casting time of 1 minute is now in cast in half a minute, and an infusion that requires a full round action or a full round to cast now has its casting time reduced to a standard action. In addition, every time the fist of the constructed casts an infusion on his own body, he gains 5 temporary hit points (max 30).

The first part doesn't seem too useful, since actions like that rarely matter when it comes to spend a minute or half a minute on something.

[Owrtho]

Sure, I'll give it a go. Not particularly familiar with artificers though.

Well, flavour, prerequisites, and skills seem to fit.



Unarmed Damage: A Fist of the Constructed deals unarmed and slam attack damage according to the table, unless their damage as a monk or unarmed sworsage of their level + their Fist of the Constructed levels would grant them more damage. The values in the table are given for medium warforged, and change according to size as normal.

Seems to fit for helping the unarmed combat part. That said, you don't actually make the fist of constructed levels stack with monk or unarmed swordsage for determining damage, which it is implied you intended given your mention of them not getting the damage increase if the combine levels would make their normal damage higher. You also forgot the 'd' in swordsage.


Dormant Infusion: The first thing a fist of the constructed learns is how to mix the magic they create as artificers with the innate forces that make the warforged work, giving them the capability to leave arcane energies dormant within their body.
At first level, a number of infusions with a limited duration cast on your own body equal to half your fist of the constructed level (round up) may be made dormant. Dormant infusions do not expend their duration or grant their benefits, and they cannot be dispelled until activated. They may be activated at any time with a swift action, at which point they behave as they had been cast in the round they were activated. If you have multiple dormant infusions, you may activate them separately. Once your dormant infusions have been activated, they no longer count against your limit of dormant infusions. In addition, you may not make the highest level of infusion you can cast dormant.

Three things, first, you should note if there is a duration on how long you may keep an infusion dormant on you. If not, you should note if dormant infusions count against your infusions per day when cast or when activated, and if when cast, that they automatically expend infusions of the appropriate level when you take 8 hours of rest and would regain your infusion slots (so as to avoid things like applying all your remaining infusions as dormant ones before resting so as to have more than your normal daily allotment).
Third, while I'd expect you may only activate a single dormant infusion at a time with a swift action, that isn't entirely clear.


Shattered Dormancy

A nice ability.


Dormant Defense: At fifth level, the dormant infusions may be expended for defense. Using this option is an immediate action, and when you use it, you gain a bonus to saving throws and armor class equal to half the combined spell levels of the infusions you are activating in this manner. In addition you gain DR/- equal to half the combined spell levels of the infusions. These benefits last until the start of your next turn.

The wording on this could use some work. It might be better to say:

At fifth level, the dormant infusions may be expended for defence. As an immediate action, you may activate any number of dormant infusions you have. However, instead of gaining their normal benefits, you gain a bonus to AC and an amount of DR/- equal to half the combine spell levels of the infusions you are activating. These stack with other sources of AC and DR/-. These benefits last until the start of your next turn.


Dormant Renewal

Another nice ability.


Lasting Modification

Fits the theme of the class well.


Combat Infusion

Useful, though probably not overpowered.


Constructed Body

As the above.


Body of Artifice: The fist of the constructed becomes able to use the innate qualities of his warforged nature better than ever before.
Any infusion that the fist of the constructed casts on himself has its casting reduced. An infusion with a casting time of 1 minute is now in cast in half a minute, and an infusion that requires a full round action or a full round to cast now has its casting time reduced to a standard action. In addition, every time the fist of the constructed casts an infusion on his own body, he gains 5 temporary hit points (max 30).

Might be useful to specify how this effects the casting time of infusions that are not of the mentioned casting times. Other than that looks good.


Now to finish reviewing the dances from Dancer of the Threshold:


Awakening Dance

Nothing wrong with this that I can tell, though rather fun, and flavourful with the Perform (Dance) bonus.


Dance of the Little Death
...
If a creature successfully makes its save then it becomes effect immune to this dance from you for 24 hours.

This sentence seems to need slight rewording. Most likely able to be accomplished by removing the word 'effect'.


Dance of Necromantic Countering
... you may recover an extra spell slot in a spontaneous arcane casting class that is of level strictly lower than the level of the spell countered or may recover a prepared arcane necromancy spell that you have used in the last 24 hours. The recovered spell or spell slot must be of level strictly lower than that of the spell countered. If your check fails, then the spell proceeds normally.

Given the next sentence states the spell must be of a lower level than the one countered, you could remove the part mentioning it specifically with regaining a spontaneous spell slot.


Memory of Those Who Have Died a A Greater Death
...
This Dance allows you to bind a vestige. This Dance takes one minute. As you dance, the movements of your feet inscribe in the ground below you the form of the seal of a vestige. Thus you must dance on a medium that would allow
such inscription such as dirt, or you may use some substance on your feet to accomplish this. Your effective binder for this Dance level is equal to your ranks in Perform(Dance)-3 and it must be high enough to bind that vestige for this Dance to succeed.
...
Pacts made this way are automatically bad. If you have other ability to bind vestiges (such as levels in Binder), a vestige bound this way does not count towards your usual limit on number of vestiges bound. You may not have more than one vestige bound this way at a time. The ability to bind a vestige this way also does not count as a prerequisite for any feat or prestige class that
would require binding a vestige. In all other ways this Dance functions exactly like normal binding.

Seems fine, but both of the paragraphs have random enters in them.


Mustering of the Undead Army
...
Immediately before animation commences if your number of ranks in Perform(Dance) level is higher than caster level of any hallow, consecrate, or similar effect in the area they are dispelled. You are immediately aware of undead created by this dance and their approximate locations.

If performed in a graveyard, catacomb, or similar enviroment which the Dancer
is attuned to by means of Graveyard Communing then this Dance also will penetrate, effecting any body less than 10 feet underground, and will include nearby beings in mausoleums and similar structures. In general, for undead buried under earth it takes about 1d6 rounds for each undead to claw their way to the surface (which they attempt to do automatically) unless there are barriers such as being buried in a metal coffin or under rock, and undead created by this effect will automatically attempt to do so.

First thing to note, should say 'effects' in the first paragraph quoted rather than effect. In the second paragraph you again have a random enter. You also should remove one of the two spots it states buried undead will automatically try to dig out of the ground.


Rapture of Pain:
...
This dance takes 1 standard action to initiate, and the requires a standard action in each subsequent round to continue using. Every round you continue this dance, every creature within in radius 5 feet for every 2
Perform(Dance) ranks of you with line-of-sight takes 2d6 damage. The first time, someone is subject to the Dance they get a fortitude save to half the damage. If one restarts the Dance(expending an additional bardic music use or spell slot), all creature make a new save. When you start this Dance you may choose to have the damage dealt by it be non-lethal.

Should say 'radius of 5 feet'. Also, another random enter.


...
This dance, like an Age Draining Waltz, requires a willing partner to start. However, once the dance begins, the partner will immediately realize that something is drastically wrong as they feel their soul being torn from them. Each round they they make a will save. If they
succeed on the first such check, then they may stop dancing (and may at their option enter a grapple with you as a free action). However, after the first round, they must succeed on two such will saves in a row (over two rounds) in order to stop the effect. If in the third round, the Dance is still ongoing, then every round they do not make the will save they they must make a fortitude save at the same DC or die instantly as their soul is torn from their body. The Dancer has the option of making this resemble simple heart failure or can instead have the body immediately shrivel up in an obviously supernatural and horrifying fashion.

Seems fine, but another random enter.


Summoning Dance
[i]You make a sweeping gesture and a skeleton appears in front of you.[/b]


Good ability, but you tried to close the italics with a [/b].


True Peace
...
Third, creatures with more than 9 hit die can still be effected, but they get a +4 bonus on their fortitude save, and do not fail their save on a natural 1.

Minor typo, but die is singular, you should use dice there. Otherwise looks good.


Edit: Also, added a more noticeable capstone for the Sower of Strangeness. See Seed the Land ability for details.

Owrtho

[Frog Dragon]

I edited the Fist of the Constructed. And the Dormant Infusions actually were intended to be activated all at once if the player so wishes. I clarified that as well.

Don't know much about Marshals, but here goes. Comments in blue.


Finished
The Commissar of the Emperor

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3rxMyTj9510/TW7-RW4_s3I/AAAAAAAAAHU/nSPed_Pa_3E/s1600/yarrick.jpg

I didn't give you permission to die coward! On your feet!
Commissar Yarrick, during the first war of Armageddon

Humans have the astounding ability to be inspired to fight beyond any normal limits, however there are limits to how this can be accomplished.
The Commissar however, surpasses these limits by scaring his men while inspiring them. A quick execution of cowards does wonders for morale in the heat of battle.

BECOMING A COMMISSAR
A commisar is is generally appointed after having extensive experiance in the battlefield and shown the ability to lead large numbers of men against the enemy.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Intimidate 8 ranks, Perform (Oratory) 8 ranks
Feats: Intimidating Strike (PHB2)
Auras: Must be able to project a minor aura and a major aura
Special: Must be able to use Inspire courage 2/day and must be able to grant a move action 1/day
:

Class Skills
The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int mod

Hit Dice: d10
So the intended entry is Marshal 4/Bard 2. Okay. The skills look pretty much pasted from the respective entry classes. I do find it kind of odd that this has full BAB and d10 HD, when the marshal has medium bab and d8 hd, and the bard has medium bab and d6 hd. Also, I'd find a good will save more suitable to this guy than a good reflex save.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Auras and Spells

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Drill Sergeant|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Intimidating Shot|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Fear me, not the enemy|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Fear is better than persuasion|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|An example to you all|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|It is better to be feared by everyone than no-one|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|Fear is better than persuasion|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Preparations against Poison|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|It is better to be feared by everyone than no-one|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|Fear is better than persuasion, On your feet coward!|+1 level of Auras and +1 level of existing bard casting[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A Commissar is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any one-handed ranged weapons. (This does not include throwing weapons) They are also proficient with light and medium armour and All shields (except tower shields) Pretty much made redundant by the entry class proficiencies. I assume the one-handed ranged weapon thing is meant to facilitate gun-wielding?

Drill Sergeant (Ex)
At 1st level a Commissar learns that the best way to lead is through fear.
When a Commissar uses inspire courage, he may make a ranged attack roll on an ally (This attack does not provoke an AoO). This attack will automatically deal the lowest possible outcome for damage and if it hits, the damage dealt will be added to the bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls and saves made against fears made by allies.

The bonus on fear saves is not added on saves against fear caused by the Commissar.
This sounds like it could get pretty brutal if you start stacking flat damage bonuses on that ranged attack. Most character's wouldn't mind taking 10 damage if they gain that as a bonus to a whole bunch of rolls. Also, "fears" should probably be referred to as "fear effects".

Intimating shot (Ex)
At second level you may apply an intimidating strike to your ranged attacks. Okay. Not much to say about this really. Also, this should be "Intimidating Shot", not "Intimating shot."

Fear me, not the enemy (3rd level): when you succede on a intimadate (*intimidate) check against a enemy, any allies in LoS gain a 5+ morale bonus to will saves aganist enemy fear and mind-effecting abilty. You should probably state that as "any allies with line of sight to you. Also, it's "mind-affecting abilities. Also, I nearly missed this ability because it wasn't bolded.

Fear is better than persuasion: (Ex) At 4th level and every 3 levels after, a Commissar may use a use of bardic music and make a perform (oratory) check and an intimidate check.
If the result of the intimidate check is higher you may use one of the following effects depending on level.
4th: You may add half your Commissar level to your inspire courage bonus
7th: You may either double your inspire courage or half your Commissar level to your inspire courage bonus.
10th: You may double your inspire courage bonus and add half your commissar level to it. Half your Commissar level is not doubled.
This seriously encourages intimidate optimization, while.... encouraging you to stunt your perform. That's weird. Anyway, "half your commissar level" is a pretty big deal, given that normal bards get +4 at level 20...

Preparations against Poison (Ex)
A level 8 Commissar has either learned from experience or being told, that a scary and abusive general doesn't live long when poison is easily acquired from the black market, and the easiest way to deal with this is to take deadly poisons in small doses regularly, and you have now done it often enough to become immune to all ingested poisons. Ingested poisons are poisons placed in either food or drink. This will not make you immune to poisons when something with poison dripping from its fangs decides to insert your arm inside its mouth. You could just use the categorizations for "injury poison/ingested poison/inhaled poison" and so on. Honestly, it wouldn't break the bank to just make the guy immune to poison.

An example to you all (Ex)
As a full-round action a level 5 Commissar can make an ally within reach/1 range incriment dies. Make an Intimidate check, 1/6th of the result is added to allies within Line of Sights attack rolls, damage rolls and Armour Class. So the commissar can autokill an ally as a full-round action? This is... weird. And sounds hard to adjudicate too. What if you have a traitor in your midst who doesn't consider you their ally, but you consider them to be your ally. What if someone mindrapes you to think the BBEG is your ally? Apart from abuses, the only way I can see this being very useful is if you have leadership+ minions, and doing this is going to murder your leadership score pretty fast.

A spell and Aura, combined to scare them ****less (Su)
At level 6, a Commissar has found a way to weave their spell into an aura, for a brief surge of power that will make enemies inside their aura sickened for the round (Fort Neg) DC: Commissar level + Cha Mod + Aura Bonus At levl 8, this ability becomes more powerful and an Aura this ability is used with has its bonsu increased by 2 until the end of your next round. This ability is used as a swift action. "...I'm not even sure what this is supposed to do. Combine an aura with a bardic spell? Okay, but it doesn't even seem to offer any mechanics to do so."

On your feet coward! (Ex)
At 10th level a Commissar learns his most powerful ability in war.If an ally is dropped, make an intimidate check as a free action. If your result is higher then the damage dealt to the ally they survive with 1HP Immunity to HP damage for all! Unless someone is ubercharging you, their damage rolls probably won't exceed optimized intimidate rolls.

The class is very powerful just for its chassis, but the abilities honestly drive it straight into overpowered, since they are so easy to horribly abuse.


I doubt I could give a very informed PEACH for Owrtho, since I know next to nothing about the two classes being hybridized. Ah well.

[JoshuaZ]

Well, first thing I noticed, on spellcraft you seem put the ranks in parentheses, while not doing so for the other skills.

Fixed.

Skills seem fine, they match the theme of the class.



The spellcasting progression makes me a bit wary, but seeing as you need levels in a different class from the one being advanced (even if it is a class with minor progression of its own), it may be fine.

Yeah, I can see it as a bit worrisome. I was thinking of having them lose a casting level at 1. Maybe I should do that.





Nice and flavourful. However, it seems you are missing the word 'that' in the second sentence.[/quote[

Thanks, and fixed.

[quote]This line doesn't quite make sense. Might want to clarify it.

Er, yeah. As written it doesn't make sense. I'm going to replace it just with continuing a Dance requires a standard action.




Don't see any real problem with the non-standard DC.

Good. Mechanically, this was one of my biggest worries.




I'd suggest stating this can't exceed your total level.



I might suggest making the bonus require 5 ranks in Perform (Dance) so as to better match with other skill synergies.

Both good ideas. Done and done.




A fun ability, if not one likely to be used often. Might be worth expanding it in some way to be usable with willing non-dancers.

Good idea. Done. I've made it take slightly more resources to do that form to make up for the fact that one of them isn't a Dancer.



Anyway, a few typos. The first sentence above should either start with 'they' or have an 's' on the end of dance. The second I'd recommend changing 'dances' to participant.

Yep. Done.




Sense the Opening Door is an interesting ability. Given the flavour of it, it may also be fitting to at some point grant an ability to easily identify creatures as living, non-living, dead, or undead.




I'd suggest altering the wording to be since the start of your most recent turn, rather than during rounds. Mainly as it currently does not grant the bonus at the start of rounds before your turn arrives in initiative order if you started or continued a dance the previous round.

Good call. Done.





I might suggest altering this to letting them recognize undead while dancing. As it is, most undead are unlikely to dance. Perhaps alter it to granting the effects of the deathwatch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathwatch.htm) spell while dancing.


Hmm, I'm not sure. A lot of that is already added in by the modified form of Sense the Opening Door. Also, I like the idea of some vampire giving themselves away when they go out to the Dance floor. But overall, it doesn't seems like a decent idea, so done.



On Age Draining Waltz, I'm not sure the use limit on specific creatures is needed, given the time required to pull it off. Then again, I may be slightly biased with regard to that, as the limit prevents the interesting idea of a Dancer dancing with someone as they gradually get younger, while the other person gradually gets older, until the ageing person eventually dies.

Hmm, that is an interesting idea. Modifying that Dance accordingly.



Only skimmed the rest of the dances, though I'l try to look them over in more detail later today. That said, it might be worth adding a feat that allows you to learn additional dances you qualify for, possibly with the prerequisite of already knowing 9 dances, or noting dances learned by the feat don't count for learning other dances. This was a Dancer may continue advancing their dances after reaching level 10.

Very good idea. Done.

Edit: Ok. Now looking over the EACHing for the specific other Dances.




This sentence seems to need slight rewording. Most likely able to be accomplished by removing the word 'effect'.
Yep.




Given the next sentence states the spell must be of a lower level than the one countered, you could remove the part mentioning it specifically with regaining a spontaneous spell slot.

Fixed the various extra enters. I think those slipped in because I was writing this in Notepad before moving it over here. Much thanks for the other points which I've now fixed.

[Owrtho]

Yeah, I can see it as a bit worrisome. I was thinking of having them lose a casting level at 1. Maybe I should do that.

Well, looking at it, the class seems to only require one level of bard, meaning a sorcerer or wizard can get rather notable benefits for the cost of one caster level. Also makes me notice that while the class continues to get bardic music uses, it doesn't actually learn any new songs. That tends to make a few of the other abilities that have your bardic music interact with the dancing somewhat lacklustre. I'd suggest possibly dropping a level or two of casting progression and granting some progression of learning more bardic music.


Hmm, I'm not sure. A lot of that is already added in by the modified form of Sense the Opening Door. Also, I like the idea of some vampire giving themselves away when they go out to the Dance floor. But overall, it doesn't seems like a decent idea, so done.

Well, as you have it now, it seems to work reasonably well, as the deathwatch provides a somewhat intermediary way of identifying undead until you gain the ability to identify them even when not dancing with sense the opening door three levels later. As a side note, on sense the opening door, you change from second to third person partway through the new last sentence.

Owrtho

[JoshuaZ]

Well, looking at it, the class seems to only require one level of bard, meaning a sorcerer or wizard can get rather notable benefits for the cost of one caster level. Also makes me notice that while the class continues to get bardic music uses, it doesn't actually learn any new songs. That tends to make a few of the other abilities that have your bardic music interact with the dancing somewhat lacklustre. I'd suggest possibly dropping a level or two of casting progression and granting some progression of learning more bardic music.

Good points. Changing level one so that it drops a caster level, and adding language which increases bardic music learning progression.




As a side note, on sense the opening door, you change from second to third person partway through the new last sentence.

Owrtho

Good point, fixed.


Also- I like your new capstone.

[Owrtho]

Well, looks like the deadline has come. Looking forward to the voting on this one.

Owrtho

[JoshuaZ]

Well, looks like the deadline has come. Looking forward to the voting on this one.



Yeah, I'm going to have a tough choice on which to vote for. A lot of the entries are very good.

And of course it figures that I notice another extra enter and a typo a few minutes after the deadline has passed...

[ErrantX]

Current contest is closed, no more entries or edits please. I'll be going over this later this evening and I'll post the contest voting then. Good show folks!

-X

[Owrtho]

Current contest is closed, no more entries or edits please. I'll be going over this later this evening and I'll post the contest voting then. Good show folks!

-X

Just thought I would bump to see what is going on with the voting thread.

Owrtho

[boomwolf]

And on another note: do we REALLY need to wait for voting to end so that we can begin a new contest? wont doing it parallel be more brew-efficient?

[Morph Bark]

And on another note: do we REALLY need to wait for voting to end so that we can begin a new contest? wont doing it parallel be more brew-efficient?

We don't, but usually the time is used to get a breather and to decide what the theme of the next one will be.

Especially the first one seems important to me. If I'd want to participate every time and the contests would line up very quickly after the last ones, I'd keep pumping out homebrew yes, but it would be mediocre. I know some people prefer to keep going and going, but I prefer to just let inspiration strike and then nurture it into something that can grow.

[JoshuaZ]

And on another note: do we REALLY need to wait for voting to end so that we can begin a new contest? wont doing it parallel be more brew-efficient?

I like having a small bit of downtime between contests. Among other things, it gives me time to repost a version of my entry with any issues fixed that weren't dealt with by the time the deadline for the contest ran out. This contest's entry for example has at least two typos, two extraneous line segments, and a minor rule issue that wasn't pointed out to me until after the deadline for editing.

[cooperflood]

Bump. It's been a week since the contest closed, it would be nice to get a voting thread.

[Owrtho]

Perhaps someone else should try making the thread for now if ErrantX is too busy. I can try doing it if no one else is able or willing.

Skimming through EdroGrimshell's Fusionist is lacking class skills, NineThePuma's Magitech Crafter is lacking fluff, and MoleMage's Vindictive Fists is lacking fluff. Other than that the rest of the classes seem to be complete, though I didn't check to see if they are lacking any abilities.

Owrtho

[BelGareth]

Perhaps someone else should try making the thread for now if ErrantX is too busy. I can try doing it if no one else is able or willing.

Skimming through EdroGrimshell's Fusionist is lacking class skills, NineThePuma's Magitech Crafter is lacking fluff, and MoleMage's Vindictive Fists is lacking fluff. Other than that the rest of the classes seem to be complete, though I didn't check to see if they are lacking any abilities.

Owrtho

I support this message.

[JoshuaZ]

Perhaps someone else should try making the thread for now if ErrantX is too busy. I can try doing it if no one else is able or willing.

Skimming through EdroGrimshell's Fusionist is lacking class skills, NineThePuma's Magitech Crafter is lacking fluff, and MoleMage's Vindictive Fists is lacking fluff. Other than that the rest of the classes seem to be complete, though I didn't check to see if they are lacking any abilities.

Owrtho

That seems about right to me. It might be preferable for the person who makes the thread to not be someone who has an entry, but that's a minor quibble.

[Fable Wright]

I can do it tomorrow, if you're willing to wait another day...

[Owrtho]

I can do it tomorrow, if you're willing to wait another day...

Well, I personally don't have a problem with that.

Owrtho

[Fable Wright]

Here it is: The Voting Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234674)

[boomwolf]

Shall we start making idea for next contest?

-Archery
-Single spell specialist
-Cooperation Focus (focused on assisting others/getting assisted)
-Feat tree mastery (akin to fortune friend)
-Videogame into DnD

[Owrtho]

Shall we start making idea for next contest?

Perhaps something like 'corrupted or redeemed', meaning prcs built around playing characters who have betrayed the beliefs of their previous class or group (such as a fallen paladin, or an ex-thief that has come to oppose theft).

Owrtho

[JoshuaZ]

Perhaps something like 'corrupted or redeemed', meaning prcs built around playing characters who have betrayed the beliefs of their previous class or group (such as a fallen paladin, or an ex-thief that has come to oppose theft).

Owrtho

That was very close to the idea of Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111855)

[Owrtho]

That was very close to the idea of Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111855)

Ah, missed that month's contest.
In that case, what about the the following themes:
Obsession (for those obsessed with something)
Seven Deadly Sins/Heavenly Virtues (themed off of at least one of those)
World of my own (based on altering things in some way to fit their own desires, or just being out of touch with reality)

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

By Demons be Driven
Blood and Bone
Echoes of the Past
I Think, Therefore I Am

[TheGeckoKing]

I like the idea of a contest on the Seven Deadly Sins/Heavenly Virtues, although a Demon/Fiend themed contest also interests me. Probably would go with the Sins/Virtues theme if pressed.

[boomwolf]

Isn't DnD already filled with these kind of classes to the point of bursting?

[TheGeckoKing]

Isn't DnD already filled with these kind of classes to the point of bursting?

Yes, but most of them are awful.

[flabort]

Like filling a box with Limburger cheese to the point of bursting.

[boomwolf]

WTF is limburger, and do I really want to know?

[BelGareth]

WTF is limburger, and do I really want to know?

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/09/78709-004-5D1AB6E8.jpg

To those that like cheese, it's awesome.

To those that don't, it smells and is strangely soft. oh and moldy.

[Morph Bark]

WTF is limburger, and do I really want to know?

I am a limburger.

No, I am not kidding. I am completely serious.

[flabort]

WTF is limburger, and do I really want to know?

Have you heard of Blu Cheese? It's moldy, smelly cheese.

Limburger cheese outshines Blu cheese's stink, and mold, by far, and worse, it's gooey, soft cheese and doesn't age well... Well, I guess it does, if by well you mean "it gets smellier".

[TheGeckoKing]

And to continue with the theme of cheese, maybe a contest about food, potions, poisons and other things that might be ingested?

[BelGareth]

And to continue with the theme of cheese, maybe a contest about food, potions, poisons and other things that might be ingested?

I like this.