GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

[Glimbur]

Just a few comments on the Adept of Loki.



Thanks! I wondered if anyone would be brave enough to PEACH this thing.

I'm changing up Erratic Action so you get a move action and, on average, one fewer standard action. That will help a little. Also, you really can't be a good spellcaster as an Adept of Loki. Your SLA's are of dubious utility, and it doesn't progress normal casting. You could probably UMD like nobody's business, it might be worth limiting that to 1/turn.

I'll throw in more tables later. The SLA's are kind of a mess.

The abilities that grow with level that you are unlikely to be able to max out are part of the 'charm' of the class, if you can call it that. I recognize that it's a balance issue but I don't really want to scale things by character level because it makes dips... actually, I guess I could do that. I'll ponder that as well. Thanks!

[Mephibosheth]

Thanks! I wondered if anyone would be brave enough to PEACH this thing.

It is a bit of a challenge, considering that every ability could come at EL 6 or EL 15!


I'm changing up Erratic Action so you get a move action and, on average, one fewer standard action. That will help a little. Also, you really can't be a good spellcaster as an Adept of Loki. Your SLA's are of dubious utility, and it doesn't progress normal casting. You could probably UMD like nobody's business, it might be worth limiting that to 1/turn.

I guess I'm not so worried about the Adept of Loki SLAs but about conventional spells that the character might have coming into the class or gain after it's over. Especially if they only take 1 or 2 levels in Adept and had spellcasting levels going in and coming out. Those spells could be significantly more powerful.

[Glimbur]

I have added tables to the spell like ability section. I also added another small nerf to Erratic Action: if you gain more than 2 standard actions in a turn you get 0 standard actions next turn. It is only a small nerf, this is still a tempting dip for spellcasters for a level or two provided you cheat and ensure you get the right abilities. And you are ok with needing to cheat every round, or you can live with sometimes not getting standard actions.

[Mephibosheth]

Excellent! That makes things much clearer and much less prone to abuse. I actually think that taking away standard actions on the subsequent round adds to the flavor of the PrC; the Adept of Loki's powers flare up and he's stunned (not literally, but you know) by it the next round. Nice!

[Techwarrior]

Alright, Shadowsaint of the Bladesworn has been revamped, now with 200% more Paladin! I'm at the fruit market now, will give out PEACHes when I get back from the city.

Does anyone know what kind of attribution I'd need for an image file given to me by a friends for the express use of this contest?

[Mephibosheth]

Alright, Shadowsaint of the Bladesworn has been revamped, now with 200% more Paladin! I'm at the fruit market now, will give out PEACHes when I get back from the city.

So, to qualify for this PrC, you need to be warlock 2/martial adept 2/paladin 2? And then it progresses the main ability of all three classes? Interesting...

[Zelkon]

I might think of throwing something together in the last few days. Something about using the insanity of the Far Realm.

[malonkey1]

EXECUTOR OF BEDLAM

Hrm...Not sure if 3.5 or Pathfinder. I'll assume 3.5...Lemme see.

The table's a wee bit confusing on maneuvers Known/Readied/Etc. Am I to assume that a "zero" means no increase, and a "1" is a new maneuver/stance? If so, it might just be easier for readers if you go with totals.

Surging Strike:

you may reduce your sneak attack dice by up to 3d6. If you do so, your attack carries a random effect with it; roll the same number of d6 you reduced your sneak attack by and look up the resulting effect on the Surge Table, below. The maximum result you can achieve on the table is 13.

Unless you intended to limit it to 13, this should be 18. And if you can only reach 18, why did you include the higher numbers? Overall, the effects seem pretty handy.

Wild Adept is a pretty neat concept. Does a penalty to Initiator level cause a maneuver to fail if it's too high a level? (Ex. an IL 9 EoB rolls a 1 for Wild Adept while initiating a level 5 maneuver, so his IL falls to 7, less than needed to learn 5th-level maneuvers. Does it go ker-poots?)

Wreak Havoc seems like a pretty balanced ability. Give up your stance ability & a swift action for it, but it's not too weak. And, uh, does this also apply to attacks from ranged Weapon-Like Spells?

Does Random Flash function in darkness or supernatural darkness?

I like that Anarchy flash ability. While it seems a bit odd that its save DC is based of Dexterity, but I suppose that may be to cut down on MADness. Perhaps you may want to change "Each time the subject of Anarchy Flash targets your enemies or allies instead of its own enemies or allies..."

with "Each time the subject of Anarchy Flash confuses an ally for an enemy, or vice versa, and affects them accordingly..."


All in all, a decent, playable class, most of the flaws are pretty much just grammatical kerfluffle. I'd appreciate you PEACHing my class from the Base Class Contest. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14654466#post14654466) I'll probably get into the next PrC contest.

[sirpercival]

Hrm...Not sure if 3.5 or Pathfinder. I'll assume 3.5...Lemme see. Hey, thanks!!


The table's a wee bit confusing on maneuvers Known/Readied/Etc. Am I to assume that a "zero" means no increase, and a "1" is a new maneuver/stance? If so, it might just be easier for readers if you go with totals. Yes, that's the official format for ToB classes for some reason. It'd be much more intuitive if it was "+1" vs "+0", but c'est la vie.



Unless you intended to limit it to 13, this should be 18. And if you can only reach 18, why did you include the higher numbers? Overall, the effects seem pretty handy. I intended to limit it to 13 -- as you increase in level, both the number of dice you can spend and your limits go up.


Wild Adept is a pretty neat concept. Does a penalty to Initiator level cause a maneuver to fail if it's too high a level? (Ex. an IL 9 EoB rolls a 1 for Wild Adept while initiating a level 5 maneuver, so his IL falls to 7, less than needed to learn 5th-level maneuvers. Does it go ker-poots?) Hm, good question. It still happens, just with a lower maneuver level (like the artificer's 3d6 fireball example). I'm not in favor of class features that make you waste actions. I'll clarify.


Wreak Havoc seems like a pretty balanced ability. Give up your stance ability & a swift action for it, but it's not too weak. And, uh, does this also apply to attacks from ranged Weapon-Like Spells? It's a ranged attack, so yes. :smallcool:


Does Random Flash function in darkness or supernatural darkness? Hm. Well, as written, it's not a light effect, so it should. It doesn't match the fluff, though. Lemme think about it, and I'll clarify either way.


I like that Anarchy flash ability. While it seems a bit odd that its save DC is based of Dexterity, but I suppose that may be to cut down on MADness. Perhaps you may want to change "Each time the subject of Anarchy Flash targets your enemies or allies instead of its own enemies or allies..."

with "Each time the subject of Anarchy Flash confuses an ally for an enemy, or vice versa, and affects them accordingly..." Good idea.


All in all, a decent, playable class, most of the flaws are pretty much just grammatical kerfluffle. I'd appreciate you PEACHing my class from the Base Class Contest. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14654466#post14654466) I'll probably get into the next PrC contest. Yes, the grammar was hard to figure in a few places...

I'll take a look when I can, though my plate is extremely full right now.

[malonkey1]

I intended to limit it to 13 -- as you increase in level, both the number of dice you can spend and your limits go up.

...OH!!! 13d6! I thought you meant a maximum roll of 13! Duh!

[sirpercival]

...OH!!! 13d6! I thought you meant a maximum roll of 13! Duh! No, a maximum roll of 13. 3d6 (max 13), then that increases as per the table, up to 7d6 (max 40) at level 10.

[MoleMage]

I have a question.
I just started an archive dive on our local OOTS, and got the the doily comic. Why, in the gods' names, did we not make a doily themed class during Items of Power?!

[malonkey1]

No, a maximum roll of 13. 3d6 (max 13), then that increases as per the table, up to 7d6 (max 40) at level 10.

That isn't on the table...

[sirpercival]

That isn't on the table...
It's the Surge column, between the Will save and the Special column.

[malonkey1]

...Oh. My bad.

[sirpercival]

...Oh. My bad.

No worries. :)

[Zelkon]

I'm about 25% done with the class: Done with chassis, table, and ideas, as well as a bit of fluff. My personal favorite ability is "Nope," sort of like a catch all counterspell, followed by at-will self targeted explosive runes. I still gotta write the three entry feats though.

[ErrantX]

Not much time left guys and gals, please try to finish up. I always hate DQ'ing an entry.

-X

[Techwarrior]

PEACHes

Tarsten Corvus
The Wandering Thief
Ooooh shiny, and that brings me off on a Firefly tangetn immediately. :smalltongue:

Entry Requirements
It's strange that its actually easier for a character that's only dipped an agile thieving class to get in than a straight thief. Rogue 2/(Full BAB) 4 is the easiest entry, though Rogue 7 is probably the preferred? Also requires 2 really bad feats for entry. :smallannoyed:

Basics
The save tables are odd, to say the least. From my knowledge, you've got the PrC good save tables for Fort and Will, and then straight up Good progression for Reflex? That's a little mixed, but it makes them a little better at resisting the two saves Rogues are weak against. Skills got slightly expanded, but slightly less per level. Probably all balances out across the table here.

Features
Go go Rogue class features! ... aw.. Losing 2 dice of sneak attack? The rest of these features better be good... As a side note, it would be nice to go over the wording with a fine comb to try and iron out the wrinkles in wording and grammar.

Urban Terrain...
Looks about like a Talent to me, gained twice. Feels like filler, but it's the first feature.

Eye for something Shiny
Again, a Talent. This one feels more useful to me though, like its an actual feature as opposed to the metaphorical Assassin bonus to poison saves.

Calling Card
This should be a major part of the class, and it's not. Its more powerful than both of the above two features because it scales better, and its drawback probably won't come up often. I know if my Thief got something stolen from him that he had rightfully lifted from someone's purse no less, (Do you know how tedious that is?) Diplomacy would not be my modus operandi for dealing with that insufferable petty amateur kleptomaniac.

Bold Instincts
I like this. Its nice and simple, and not dying is a thief's best skill! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0746.html)

Time to Run
I'd consider making this something other than an Enhancement bonus. At this level, if you're jonesing for speedy quckster-ness you've already got Boots of Striding and Springing or similar. Maybe Competence, Insight, or Luck? (I like the thought of Luck myself, just from a fluff standpoint) The acrobatics bonus is yummy.

Slow Fall
Yes it makes sense from a fluff standpoint. I have about as much venom for it as any other playgrounder though. The only time I've seen slow fall work, it was in the DM's hands. If you want to put the ability in, and have only so little, please please please make it not need a wall.

Master Thief
So you've gotten 10 levels into the class, and you get Nondetection and the inability to be tracked by scent. That's a little bit of a letdown. I'd much rather see going all-out and nabbing Mind Blank with Nondetection and Pass Without Trace worked in earlier (4th maybe?). You also need to denote what caster level the spell effects are, in case somebody tries to resist them.

Overall
The class has some neat ideas, and looks to be solid. However, it feels way too focused on numeric bonuses to skills and not enough on things that would help steal. I also would like to see a couple of boosts to certain abilities and more active sneakiness. I'd certainly be willing to look into going into it from a Rogue. The prerequisites should probably less feat intensive to the poor Rogue, and actually favor a Rogue-ish entry more though.


Shadowsaint of the Bladesworn
oh... right that's mine.

inuyasha
Abyssal Apprentice
Pretty much figured there'd be at least one of these, and I was not disappointed. Let's see if the class keeps up with my anticipations. Hopefully you managed to get a bit more Chaos than Evil, but hey its the thought that counts.

Entry
(Whistles) Those prereqs are all over the place. Seducers can get in one level earlier (9) without shenanigans as is, though I'm sure if you try you can get in at 7. Seducers do get absolutely shafted with feats though, as those are two thrown-away feats as opposed to Power Attack and Cleave. I'd suggest if you're actually looking to make this a 10th level entry you up the skill prerequisites for each side to 13 ranks. Some feats more useful to Seducers would be nice as well, skillmonkeys can't afford to throw two away.

Chassis
That's a really good meaty chassis, though there's quite a few dead levels. Might want to look into filling those with something

Features
First, please order these so that they're actually given some more description. Many of these have no fluff at all alongside them, and even worse, make barely any sense from the little fluff in the class description. I'd love to see those lonely dead levels filled with some interesting demonic stuff. You can literally go anywhere with this at this point, so I really don't want to start directing you, but do something with your idea here.

Overall
Your class is top-heavy currently. Almost the entire class is the mechanical aspects in the chassis. This could go anywhere at this point, but it needs to go somewhere.


sirpercival :smalleek:
Executor of Bedlam
Well, this will certainly be interesting. Nice to see what I'm up against. On the one hand, its sirpercival and will be awesome, on the other hand I'd love to win so not too much awesome. I'm stalling, on with the PEACH

Image, and setup fluff are all good, solid, and more importantly spot on for the contest.

Prereqs
Hm... stealthy, chaotic, and Martial Lore? This shall be interesting. Overall, they're short, sweet, and direct. I approve. Although, you're Sublime Rogue seems like it should be able to fulfill the prereq with 3rd level maneuvers? Seems a little strange, as that gets you 3d6 Sneak Attack dice.

Chassis
Ha, might be easier to say what skills they don't have, but none jump out at me and scream that they don't belong, so it works. Standard rogue chassis throughout.

Features
Maneuvers and Stances
Half of the Swordsage's maneuvers, similar to Sublime Rogue. Seems to be almost a straight continuation of whatever you had before once you factor in the dips necessary for the Swordsage to qualify. As always, no maneuvers of any kind at 10 makes me sad. Hopefully the capstone makes up for it. 5 disciplines is a lot.

Surging Strike
Our main feature, and boy is it a feature. A feature of wonder. I'd note in the description that the dice and maximum increase according to the table shown, as currently it doesn't say that. Everything looks good here the effects are all generally beneficial, but completely Chaotic.

Wild Adept
There's several things I like here. First, its random Chaotic. Two, it generally balances positively, which since you're in the PrC it should give an overall benefit. However, what stops me from just going into a stance until I get the max +2 bonus for the day. It would also be nice to be given ranges for the dice rolls instead of a splattering on the table, but that's preference.

Sneak Attack
Good good, gotta continue our dice progression. The 3 and not 5 dice makes me sad, but it's actually balanced.

Wreak Havoc
This is everything that the Wild Mage PrC wanted to have their ability be. I approve.

Random Flash
Hm... the damage should probably be typed. I'd suggets Luck.

Cause Clamor
Well, things just got really hard to hit you, now didn't they. Might be starting to worry me a little. At least this one still targets you if your alone in the darkened corridor. Getting a save with your best save in addition to anything else makes everything look like Phantasmal Killer with saves. Cute, but not quite good enough anymore.

Entropy Flash
Yup, I'm worried. This one should definitely be typed, if only so it doesn't stack with everything. Again, I'd suggest Luck. Not sure if you've realized, but as written, you can do Entropy and Random Flashes in the same turn as a full-round.

Bring Bedlam
Yay, now I can dodge attacks and spells. Thats good. The secondary portion might make it a bit too cool though, but that's probably more due to my preferred power level.

Anarchy Flash
I'd suggest that this be [Mind-Affecting] but don't want to get shot by the people who whine about everything and it's mother being immune to that. Currently though, with the activation cost its fine as is. It does make me not want to tear up at the no maneuvers of tenth level.

Overall
It feels more powerful than my preferred comfort level, but its balanced in the level it falls into. It starts off with Rogue/Assassin feel, but then shifts into Anime Bard/Swiftblade/Rogue weirdness that I simultaneously want to hug and punch in the face. In the most loving of ways. Good job.

[Kazyan]

Bah, I'm retracting. I could get the entry done, but it's a bit far off the mark of the "Chaos" theme, so I'll wait until the next contest with another idea I like.

[Zelkon]

Well, the basis of mine is up, and I've made more even since posting it. Hope I can get it done in time for a PEACH! It's already a lot better than my first work, which was some horrible, horrible piece of work relating to Necromancy. What a mess. I like this much better, and I have a good grasp of the mechanics. Lots of dice rolls involved unfortunately. I'm trying to keep it on the low side. My favorite ability isn't even very chaotic though: at will explosive runes as long as you're wearing the target. It's totally badass and completely suicidal.

[Morph Bark]

Partway done with the Shifter of Elements. Shame I couldn't find a good picture of someone shifting from one element to another.

[sirpercival]

Partway done with the Shifter of Elements. Shame I couldn't find a good picture of someone shifting from one element to another.

How's this one (http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/NMcGrory/meddling_mage-1.jpg)?

[Morph Bark]

Hmmm, close enough I guess. I'm moreso looking for a picture of someone seemingly changing their body from one element to another, rather than casting two spells of different elements.

[inuyasha]

PEACHes

inuyasha
Abyssal Apprentice
Pretty much figured there'd be at least one of these, and I was not disappointed. Let's see if the class keeps up with my anticipations. Hopefully you managed to get a bit more Chaos than Evil, but hey its the thought that counts.

Entry
(Whistles) Those prereqs are all over the place. Seducers can get in one level earlier (9) without shenanigans as is, though I'm sure if you try you can get in at 7. Seducers do get absolutely shafted with feats though, as those are two thrown-away feats as opposed to Power Attack and Cleave. I'd suggest if you're actually looking to make this a 10th level entry you up the skill prerequisites for each side to 13 ranks. Some feats more useful to Seducers would be nice as well, skillmonkeys can't afford to throw two away.

Chassis
That's a really good meaty chassis, though there's quite a few dead levels. Might want to look into filling those with something

Features
First, please order these so that they're actually given some more description. Many of these have no fluff at all alongside them, and even worse, make barely any sense from the little fluff in the class description. I'd love to see those lonely dead levels filled with some interesting demonic stuff. You can literally go anywhere with this at this point, so I really don't want to start directing you, but do something with your idea here.

Overall
Your class is top-heavy currently. Almost the entire class is the mechanical aspects in the chassis. This could go anywhere at this point, but it needs to go somewhere.


so do ye have any suggestions on what to fill the levels with or is this you cant help only peach kinda deal, I do appreciate it though thanks :smallbiggrin:

[Zelkon]

I've tackled the abilities, now I just have to flesh out the alterations. It's a nice class, if a bit overpowered. I mean, 9th level spells and full BAB might not have been a great idea... Though its not till 20th level anyway.

[Dark.Revenant]

Due to an extremely busy week with multiple upcoming tests and triple-scheduled D&D to still worry about in the immediate future, I'm withdrawing the Stylemaster due to lack of time. The theme wasn't really synced right, either. In actual gameplay you have to be rather deliberate with your actions (this even holds for the source material; try button-mashing in DMC3 and you'll die in seconds).

[Morph Bark]

Hey Zelkon, it looks like you forgot to end your tables with a [/table] tag. Also, in the class table, the level 10 abilities are in the wrong area due to a missed |, and after BECOMING A FARCHAOS REALMSHAPER there should be a [ before the /color] to fix it.

Overall, I like your class. Love how you used Escher in it. :smallsmile:

[Zelkon]

Hey Zelkon, it looks like you forgot to end your tables with a [/table] tag. Also, in the class table, the level 10 abilities are in the wrong area due to a missed |, and after BECOMING A FARCHAOS REALMSHAPER there should be a [ before the /color] to fix it.

Overall, I like your class. Love how you used Escher in it. :smallsmile:

Heh, thanks. I fixed it but then ported over old formatting with the new abilities. Will fix. Almost done with fluff, then I need to do some work on the chaos roll and alterations. Escher was better in concept then execution, but his work was sort of the chassis for the class. I looked up a few paintings for ideas.

[Zelkon]

Gah! No way I can do this before midnight! So many tables...So many random effects...So much not in the SRD... Gotta actually get out my books...ZOMBIE!

[Morph Bark]

Aaaaaaand in true Moripphic fashion, it's done just in time! No picture, because obviously a PrC that involves shapeshifting can never be truly represented properly by any one single image. :smallwink:

[Zelkon]

This royally sucks. I'm not going to be able to get done after all this work. SO CLOSE! It's a really great fun class. Just finished the spell list; I wanna play this thing.

[Felyndiira]

I mostly tried to write my chaos theory class off-line, although I ran into a solid prismatic wall when trying to figure out how to codify the mechanics.

Best of luck to everyone that entered, though :).

[Spate]

Sorry if that was ****ty. Had to finish it from my iPhone!

[Morph Bark]

I was made aware that there are a few small wording issues with my PrC's abilities with regards to spellshaping (mostly referring to formula as "spells", like "shaping spells" instead of "shaping formula", an easy mistake since it's called spellshaping after all). Since the PrC's deadline has already passed though, I will refrain from correcting this in the entry itself and will instead update it to be correct in a thread of its own.

[sirpercival]

I was made aware that there are a few small wording issues with my PrC's abilities with regards to spellshaping (mostly referring to formula as "spells", like "shaping spells" instead of "shaping formula", an easy mistake since it's called spellshaping after all). Since the PrC's deadline has already passed though, I will refrain from correcting this in the entry itself and will instead update it to be correct in a thread of its own.

Hey Morph, how would the SoE interact with the Sage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14545157&postcount=34)?

[Zelkon]

1. Is it alright to submit something partially incomplete?
2. Is it alright to edit my post with the changes I made last night?
3. Is it alright to finish what I have?
I assume No, Yes, and No, but thought I should ask.

[Morph Bark]

Hey Morph, how would the SoE interact with the Sage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14545157&postcount=34)?

I hadn't looked at the Sage yet, to be honest. :smallsmile: After a quick skim of the class, I presume you mean the interaction with Awaken Element? I think it would interact the same way other PrCs would that advance spellshaping in the same manner most spellshaping PrCs do (which is the same as ToB PrCs), so he'd just simply get all the formula of his chosen circle at once. As for the SoE's side of things, he'd be very limited in his choices, since he only has access to one circle, you'd think. However, the Reshape Formula feat requires knowledge of at least one formula from five different circles, so the Sage sadly couldn't enter at all without getting formulae from other circles somehow. I'll put that explicitly and seperately into the entry requirements. It was one of the things I remembered I should change, but I only remembered after the deadline.

Or was there something else you meant?


1. Is it alright to submit something partially incomplete?
2. Is it alright to edit my post with the changes I made last night?
3. Is it alright to finish what I have?
I assume No, Yes, and No, but thought I should ask.

It is generally alright to edit and finish up when the voting thread isn't up yet (as long as ErrantX hasn't called the deadline in the entry thread or the chat thread, at least), IIRC. I may be confusing the PrC Contest for the Base Class Challenge. At any rate, finishing up like that at least would give you a small chance, in case ErrantX allows it, which is better than nothing, and if he doesn't allow it, you still have a kickass PrC you can post outside of the contest and get comments on.

[Zelkon]

I'll get to work and see what happens.

[sirpercival]

Think I could get away with fixing 2 typos I found in the Executor?

[Zelkon]

Think I could get away with fixing 2 typos I found in the Executor?

I doubt it would influence voting...

[sirpercival]

I doubt it would influence voting...

Well, one's in the prereqs...

[Morph Bark]

I found a major wrong with the formula stuff of mine, so I edited it, because it was so major (I had too little time between studying to edit the minor ones, which are minor anyway). I figured it was okay, but I'm prepared to deal with the consequences like a man.

/shades

Also sirp, you probably should remove your class from the minmaxboards if you don't want to be disqualified, as the class may not be posted anywhere until the contest's end has been called.

[sirpercival]

I found a major wrong with the formula stuff of mine, so I edited it, because it was so major (I had too little time between studying to edit the minor ones, which are minor anyway). I figured it was okay, but I'm prepared to deal with the consequences like a man.

/shades

Also sirp, you probably should remove your class from the minmaxboards if you don't want to be disqualified, as the class may not be posted anywhere until the contest's end has been called.

Oops! I thought it was ok since the deadline had passed. I'll take it down until X closes.

[Zelkon]

Alterations are taking forever. However, as I was done with the entire class other than alterations on deadline, I would like to announce it as complete without Alterations. It functions as a class just fine without them, if a bit less flavorful. If I'm allowed to add them in before voting, great. If not, don't count me out.

[Glimbur]

I'll put up the voting thread. It is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14771076#post14771076).

[ErrantX]

Hey everyone, sorry I disappeared again. Some home stuff and a lot of work stuff came up that dragged me away in a whirlwind of whoah (just finished some training for a promotion, so good news for me, moderately meh news for you all since I kinda vanished due to long hours).

That being said, super thanks to Glimbur for picking up my slack and starting the voting, appreciate you all so much, cannot begin to express that.

That being said, I think a new contest is in order to finish off our alignment based shenanigans!

So without further ado... here is your new contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273958)!

Again, apologies and thank yous!

-X

[sirpercival]

Hey X, I think you mean "Evil alignment restriction" -- you have "Chaotic" in a copypasta attack. :)

Welcome back!

[ErrantX]

Hey X, I think you mean "Evil alignment restriction" -- you have "Chaotic" in a copypasta attack. :)

Welcome back!

I am apparently quite rusty then :smallredface:

Thanks for the catch and the welcome. :smallsmile:

-X

[Morph Bark]

I hope the weather will turn sunnier for you so that the whirlwinds of woah don't take your house away to Oz, Errant.

I like the choice of quote for this one. :smallsmile:

[Fable Wright]

Hand of the Dark Masters would have been perfect for this contest...

Oh well. Let's see what else I can come up with...

[ErrantX]

I hope the weather will turn sunnier for you so that the whirlwinds of woah don't take your house away to Oz, Errant.

I like the choice of quote for this one. :smallsmile:

It's definitely getting better now. The training was a whirlwind and I'm honestly surprised I got through it. Hopefully I'll have some more time for here and for my own projects. I've got 4 major projects I'm working on and I just haven't had the time to post them!

-X

[inuyasha]

by official wotc and paizo this includes ronin sword n sorcery game mechanics etc?
because if it does i would like to use stuff from perpetrated press's arsenal/factory (those were the only 2 books they made before they shut down

[sirpercival]

by official wotc and paizo this includes ronin sword n sorcery game mechanics etc?
because if it does i would like to use stuff from perpetrated press's arsenal/factory (those were the only 2 books they made before they shut down

It's up to X, but that stuff isn't WotC or Paizo, that's 3rd party stuff...

[Glimbur]

I'm doing a 7 Deadly Sins class. A little cliche, I know, but I'll be adding a blue spin to it.

[ErrantX]

by official wotc and paizo this includes ronin sword n sorcery game mechanics etc?
because if it does i would like to use stuff from perpetrated press's arsenal/factory (those were the only 2 books they made before they shut down

Negative, that stuff's kinda dicey and not everyone has had a chance to look at it / has access to it. I've allowed homebrew from this board before because its something we can all easily access, but otherwise stick to books people are likely to have access to. Paizo or WotC only.

-X

[sirpercival]

I'm currently planning a warlock->rakshasa prc, themed around the Lords of Dust.

[Edge]

Haven't entered the PrC Contest in a while, but I have an idea or two for this one.

[Mephibosheth]

Hmm. Maybe a hexblade PrC that cranks their spellcasting up a notch, sublime chord-style. Interesting? Yay or nay?

[malonkey1]

I'm thinking a ToB class that replenishes and gains bonuses from being evil.

[Techwarrior]

I might turn the quote and/or Tarquin into the basis of my entry. :smallcool:

Paladin-esque character who thinks doing evil creates good for the win.

[ErrantX]

I'm currently planning a warlock->rakshasa prc, themed around the Lords of Dust.

I love this idea, I can't wait to see it!


Hmm. Maybe a hexblade PrC that cranks their spellcasting up a notch, sublime chord-style. Interesting? Yay or nay?

I like this idea, I like it a lot. Hexblade love is needed!


I'm thinking a ToB class that replenishes and gains bonuses from being evil.

I am evil so I can do things that make me do more evil so I can do more evil.

...

Yo dawg, I heard you like doing evil, so here's an ability to do evil so you can do evil while you're doing evil. :smallbiggrin:


I might turn the quote and/or Tarquin into the basis of my entry. :smallcool:

Paladin-esque character who thinks doing evil creates good for the win.

Good idea :smallbiggrin:

-X

[Hyooz]

Hmm... I think I'll borrow a little thematics from a movie I saw recently. Might seem like an odd choice of movie, but really any time Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny need to team up to deal with a threat, you know its something truly frightening.

[Glimbur]

Only three people have voted. This seems kind of low, since we had 11 entries. Please stop by the voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273112) and make your voice heard.

[GreenSerpent]

Time to try my hand at PrC making...

Also, I have no idea why your avatar is making me laugh Glimbur. Maybe I should make a malevolent singing gnome PrC.
...
...
...
Ideeeeee-a!

[malonkey1]

Villainous Adept is up and ready for PEACHing. I'll gladly exchange PEACHes. I think it's decent.

[Glimbur]

Also, I have no idea why your avatar is making me laugh Glimbur. Maybe I should make a malevolent singing gnome PrC.
...
...
...
Ideeeeee-a!

One of my chums made it; Glimbur was a gnome bard/sublime chord I played a few years back. He was NG, but you take your inspiration where you can get it.

[sirpercival]

OK, the mechanics for the Asura of Creeping Blight are done.

Need to write up the new invocations (I might add some more, who knows), and complete the ending fluff, which will include a large section on adaptation for Eberron campaigns.

[Hyooz]

I think I will be joining Sir Percival in Eberron this contest because any class based around bad dreams seems to be begging for a liberal sprinkling of Quori.

[Amechra]

I'm filled with mixed feelings about this contest.

On the one hand, I write a mean evil (pun entirely intended).

On the other hand... screw it. When I have time, I'm going to write a PrC about slowly ruining the lives of everyone that has ever opposed you.

Slowly.

While they watch as all their friends and family turn against them, as their very childhood becomes a morass of nightmares.

It shall devour heroism, showing it for the sham it is in this cold, empty loveless world.

This will be fun to write.

[GreenSerpent]

Small question. Are 3.0 materials allowed if they have recieved an official update to 3.5?

I ask because my idea involves some material from the Manual of the Planes (though I already have an adaption planned for Eberron campaigns).

[Amechra]

It'll be fine.

I've got the initial fluff up for the Blameless Sinner. Can anyone guess what the class' schtick is?

[GreenSerpent]

Got the inital work for mine, the Youthstealer, up. Going to be interesting working out how to balance it mechanically.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Amchera: Some sort of compulsion-based class, convincing others to do your dirty work for you.

[Amechra]

Nope.

A spoiler?

It is about proving to the world that heroism doesn't exist, that the whole damn place is a cycle of horrible people doing horrible things to each-other.

The ultimate vision is that you can walk into a town and, half an hour later, everyone will be trying to kill everyone else.

The capstone will metaphorically turn you into a gaping maw that devours morality.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Wow. Kinda craps over mine. The capstone just turns you into a Demon. Granted, by then you would have your own personal horde of demonic forces, but still.

[ErrantX]

Small question. Are 3.0 materials allowed if they have recieved an official update to 3.5?

I ask because my idea involves some material from the Manual of the Planes (though I already have an adaption planned for Eberron campaigns).

That's fine, it's official WotC content.

-X

[GreenSerpent]

*yay*

It works better for Eberron because there's essentially a Realm of the Faerie there, but Faerun doesn't have one. Hence why I need to make a note stating that it is suggested that the "harsh" plane of Faerie is used if Faerun is the campaign setting.

[Amechra]

What do people think of my class ability names (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14832197&postcount=7)?

I'd like to know whether or not they get the idea across.

[malonkey1]

They get the idea across, but they may be a bit long-winded:

ENLIGHTENED MESSAGES:

"Who are your friends?" could work.
"Are they really your friends?" might need to be changed to "false friendship"
"No one actually loves you." could be changed to "You are alone"


MORALITY IS A LIE:

"The gods don't come here no more." could be simplified into "God is dead." gets a Nietzsche reference in there, too.
"Why pray to those who don't care." might be better as "We killed him."
"Morality is a joke." could work, but I feel like "I reject your morality!" might work better, especially when followed with...
"And substitute my own!" in place of "The cold, depressing truth."


But this is before seeing the features. If the features fit the names, I withdraw my complaint.

[Aldurin]

Well, might as well start participating in these contests so I get better at homebrewing.

My first submission is definitely a combination of Dread Necromancer and Rogue, with a very, very heavy fear theme going on. Hopefully the mechanics aren't too powerful (I didn't want dead levels and the last level is gonna have a worthwhile capstone DAMMIT.) I'm gonna flesh out the fluff more later, but I wanted to get what I have out there now.

[GreenSerpent]

Decided I need to do some reworking of the Youthstealer to better fit its theme. *sigh*

[Kazyan]

And there we go, Colorless Rosethorn.

PEACH? I'm concerned that it's a bit wide-of-the-mark for an eeeeeevil contest.

[Network]

What do people think of my class ability names (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14832197&postcount=7)?

* I'd like to know whether or not they get the idea across.
Many are interesting, can't wait to see them. About their names though:
I wouldn't touch Enlightened Message (Who Are Your Friends?) and (But Are They Really Your Friends?).
"No One Actually Loves You" isn't especially flashy.
I agree with Malonkey1 that Morality Is A Lie (The Gods Don't Come Here No More) and (Why Pray To Those Who Don't Care?) should be changed for a Nietzsche reference.
"Morality Is A Joke" may be changed too, but I have no precise idea in mind.
I'd change "The Cold Depressing Truth" for "The Awful Truth". That's shorter, cooler, and it couples as a Galneryus' reference too.
Lingering Doubts and Internalized Song didn't attract my attention, but that's just me.

[Glimbur]

PEACH of Villainous Adept. The name is kind of... it feels like it was pulled from a thesaurus. A lot of things are already taken by canon classes or well-loved homebrew, so things get tricky.

Entry is after level 5 assuming a full BAB class with Intimidate in-class. You also need to get Smite Good somehow, and two Vile feats. 2 general feats by 5th level is a significant investment.

You need to fill in the class name in the Class Skills section. Skills look fine, both in terms of skill list and 4+ points. That really hurts rogues who want in, but so it goes.

d8 hit die is pretty typical with 3/4 BAB. Good Ref and Will. This looks like a swordsage chassis, which is strange if full BAB gets you in fastest and you suggest lots of full BAB classes for entry.

Martial Maneuvers: it currently reads like you get one of [ Shadow Hand, Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, or White Raven] and one maneuver from Ninefold Damnation. If that's not your intent, change the 'and' to an 'or'.

Villainous Cackle activating on Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Sudden Strike is really, really strong. Drop the desert wind boost to flank, attack with a strike, cackle. Every turn. Or use a maneuver to make your opponent flat-footed, again every turn. This goes against the design philosophy of ToB encouraging variety in combat. Make it only work on crits and smites, or throw it out altogether.

Villainous Focus is also quite strong. Get an Unholy weapon (+2 equivalent) or the evil equivalent of a Blessed weapon (+1 equivalent) or cast Unholy Weapon as a Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny or a Blackguard or... there are ways to make this up whenever you need it. And it's a stacking +1 to +5 to hit and damage. This more than makes up for the 3/4 BAB, and the damage is gravy. Possibly too strong.

Talents.
Death Attack is not great, but since it's effectively free whatever. Thematic. Fine.
Necrocarnum Power is a feat (or two feats) for the essentia plus slightly better than a feat for shaping any [necrocarnum] meld plus a little less than a feat for another bind/day without opening any chakra. I'd expect everyone to take this one.
Shield of Profanity: where is the Shield of Faith class feature? Better yet, just reprint it here. Death attack is from a core PrC, but Shield of Faith seems to be more obscure.
Vile Channeling opens up a lot of [Divine] feats. Again, will probably be taken.
Feats are nice, probably ok.
Bonus skirmish is faster than the scout gets it but I'm not too worried about that. You could make a kickin' archer with Travel Devotion, skirmish, and this option to move up your skirmish faster. Still less damage than a rogue though.
Villainous Smite... expect people to take Vile Attack instead.

No capstone?

A pure rogue can sneak in here after level 7, if he spends two feats on it. In exchange for his rogue talents, he gets martial maneuvers and full sneak attack and death attack and +5 to hit and damage and... at the loss of skill points. For a combat rogue, it's an easy choice. I'm not sure how to resolve this, but the class seems to be too strong in terms of +numbers. Throw out some of the +numbers, add more variety.

[Network]

"Morality Is A Joke" may be changed too, but I have no precise idea in mind.
I'd change "The Cold Depressing Truth" for "The Awful Truth". That's shorter, cooler, and it couples as a Galneryus' reference too.

The Galneryus reference would work only of you changed the name of one sub-ability to "You Just Believe In The Lie" (as "The Awful Truth" could refer to a lot of other things).

"But Who Are You When No-One's Watching?" is a nice name, so I don't recommend changing it. You can still switch it to 6th level (instead of "Morality Is A Joke") and add "You Just Believe In The Lie" as the 8th level sub-ability.

As you asked, I suppose you don't mind to change the ability names, so that's pretty much all I have to say.

[malonkey1]

PEACH of Villainous Adept. The name is kind of... it feels like it was pulled from a thesaurus. A lot of things are already taken by canon classes or well-loved homebrew, so things get tricky.

Yeah. Is Cackling Psychopath any better?


Entry is after level 5 assuming a full BAB class with Intimidate in-class. You also need to get Smite Good somehow, and two Vile feats. 2 general feats by 5th level is a significant investment.

Yeah, The idea was to give it a significant investment so as to offset the power somewhat. I may look at the requirements after the class features themselves are hammered out.



You need to fill in the class name in the Class Skills section. Skills look fine, both in terms of skill list and 4+ points. That really hurts rogues who want in, but so it goes.

Oops. Fixed.


d8 hit die is pretty typical with 3/4 BAB. Good Ref and Will. This looks like a swordsage chassis, which is strange if full BAB gets you in fastest and you suggest lots of full BAB classes for entry.

The idea was to slow down BAB in order to offset some of the abilities. Again, subject to change, pending finalization of class features.


Martial Maneuvers: it currently reads like you get one of [ Shadow Hand, Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, or White Raven] and one maneuver from Ninefold Damnation. If that's not your intent, change the 'and' to an 'or'.

Thanks. I musta missed that.


Villainous Cackle activating on Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Sudden Strike is really, really strong. Drop the desert wind boost to flank, attack with a strike, cackle. Every turn. Or use a maneuver to make your opponent flat-footed, again every turn. This goes against the design philosophy of ToB encouraging variety in combat. Make it only work on crits and smites, or throw it out altogether.

Done. Now it's only on crits and smites.


Villainous Focus is also quite strong. Get an Unholy weapon (+2 equivalent) or the evil equivalent of a Blessed weapon (+1 equivalent) or cast Unholy Weapon as a Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny or a Blackguard or... there are ways to make this up whenever you need it. And it's a stacking +1 to +5 to hit and damage. This more than makes up for the 3/4 BAB, and the damage is gravy. Possibly too strong.

Gotcha, toned it WAAAAAY back. Now it's a free Weapon Focus with evil weapons.


Talents.
Death Attack is not great, but since it's effectively free whatever. Thematic. Fine.

Yeah, I felt I needed to add this for thematic's sake.


Necrocarnum Power is a feat (or two feats) for the essentia plus slightly better than a feat for shaping any [necrocarnum] meld plus a little less than a feat for another bind/day without opening any chakra. I'd expect everyone to take this one.

I raised the requirements on it severely, make it more of a specialty thing than a "no-brainer" pick.


Shield of Profanity: where is the Shield of Faith class feature? Better yet, just reprint it here. Death attack is from a core PrC, but Shield of Faith seems to be more obscure.

Sorry, meant "Divine Grace". Stupid brain.


Vile Channeling opens up a lot of [Divine] feats. Again, will probably be taken.

Not sure if I really wanted this in the class. Leaving it for now, but it's high on the possible cut list.


Feats are nice, probably ok.

I assume this is in reference to Vile Arcana. I made it a bit more appeling for Gishes, but I don't know if it's necessary, and will change it back if needed.


Bonus skirmish is faster than the scout gets it but I'm not too worried about that. You could make a kickin' archer with Travel Devotion, skirmish, and this option to move up your skirmish faster. Still less damage than a rogue though.

Yep. The "No AC improvement" portion I felt offset the accelerated damage, basically meaning you'd need to specialize for the damage component.


Villainous Smite... expect people to take Vile Attack instead

Yeah, but there are some who might have a Smiting build. I didn't want to tee them off.


No capstone?

Resolved.


A pure rogue can sneak in here after level 7, if he spends two feats on it. In exchange for his rogue talents, he gets martial maneuvers and full sneak attack and death attack and +5 to hit and damage and... at the loss of skill points. For a combat rogue, it's an easy choice. I'm not sure how to resolve this, but the class seems to be too strong in terms of +numbers. Throw out some of the +numbers, add more variety.

Slapped out +numbers, gave some more "abstract" benefits. I'm starting to like how this is shaping up. Please tell me if it needs more tweaking. I will look at your entry and PEACH in a little bit, so hang tight.

[ErrantX]

Got a little over a week folks, please get em done and maybe we'll get another entry or two to boot!

-X

[ErrantX]

Another reminder of the end of the contest coming up. I know it's a busy weekend, what with Doctor Who and Game of Thrones restarting as well as the season finale of the Walking Dead (look, I know you're my people :smalltongue:) so today and tomorrow, I'll be putting up a voting thread tomorrow night and starting the next contest soon after. Speculations or suggestions? Post em!

-X

[sirpercival]

The MMX contest (one spell wonders) was a lot of fun. The idea was, a class based around a particular spell, a la Swiftblade/Haste.

[Zelkon]

Hmm...What about Dragons? Or transformation. Have we done a transformation one yet?

[MoleMage]

Contest IX: It's Morphin' Time was transformation. Though that was so long ago I wasn't even on the forums I think...

[Network]

Hi everyone. I just posted the Unholy Crusader as a last-minute entry. What do you think of it?

[Morph Bark]

Another reminder of the end of the contest coming up. I know it's a busy weekend, what with Doctor Who and Game of Thrones restarting as well as the season finale of the Walking Dead (look, I know you're my people :smalltongue:)

You made my smile, Errant.

This is unforgiveable.

(:smalltongue:)

[Aldurin]

Changed the name to Dread Blade since the original idea of adding a mechanic to feed off of sadness wasn't something I could come up with. Does an entry become disqualified if it lacks the sample encounter? I notice quite a few without them and if I have to then I can try to whip one up later tonight.

[Network]

Sad Amechra didn't complete the class yet, it was interesting. A couple of other entries will be disqualified too, so I think I have some chance to win, but as my class is only 5 levels long, and as it is at the bottom of the page, I have the bad feeling it will be mostly ignored. Technically the contest ended two minutes ago, can't wait to see the voting thread.

[Glimbur]

Changed the name to Dread Blade since the original idea of adding a mechanic to feed off of sadness wasn't something I could come up with. Does an entry become disqualified if it lacks the sample encounter? I notice quite a few without them and if I have to then I can try to whip one up later tonight.

This is too late to help, but it's good news. The sample encounter is not required.

[ErrantX]

Going through the classes right now, stay tuned.

EDIT: Voting thread up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278587)!

Also realized that I am hopeless with Roman Numerals, but here is the next contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278589) as well.

-X

[sirpercival]

Weh-heh-heh-hellllll.... I did not expect that.

Now to brainstorm!

[Mephibosheth]

I like this topic! If only I'd waited to post my Faceless Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278017) PrC!

By way of gauging interest, what would people think about something based on Siddhartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28novel%29) by Herman Hesse? Are people still reading that book? Or has it fallen out of popular culture completely? I'm thinking a class that requires VoP and is based on the samanas Hesse describes on pp. 11-12. Abilities would include feats of endurance (pain, hunger, exhaustion, etc.) and the ability to, through meditation, leave one's original body and enter into the bodies of other creatures and objects. Interesting or boring? Too obscure?

[Zelkon]

I like this topic! If only I'd waited to post my Faceless Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278017) PrC!

By way of gauging interest, what would people think about something based on Siddhartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28novel%29) by Herman Hesse? Are people still reading that book? Or has it fallen out of popular culture completely? I'm thinking a class that requires VoP and is based on the samanas Hesse describes on pp. 11-12. Abilities would include feats of endurance (pain, hunger, exhaustion, etc.) and the ability to, through meditation, leave one's original body and enter into the bodies of other creatures and objects. Interesting or boring? Too obscure?

Read it not too long ago-ish for school, and I don't think they've replaced it yet. I honestly hated it, but a class based on it would actually be really cool (it's better in hindsight).

[Glimbur]

As usual, I'm looking to bend the rules.

Would it be ok to base a PrC on the advice given in The Art of War, by Sun Tzu? It's not exactly based on a character in a book. On the other hand, I just checked the book out from the library.

[Edge]

Unlike last contest, where I only had a few vague ideas that amounted to nothing, I have a very definite one this time: the Abhorsen, based on Garth Nix's Old Kingdom trilogy.

[sirpercival]

Unlike last contest, where I only had a few vague ideas that amounted to nothing, I have a very definite one this time: the Abhorsen, based on Garth Nix's Old Kingdom trilogy.

Hey that's awesome, I love those books.

I am currently hard at work on the Candysmith (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n_Uf3A2PwC0/T9zFDURUPTI/AAAAAAAAAUY/rF-q1JF7JkM/s1600/willy_wonka.jpg)

[malonkey1]

A Wonka PrC? Awesome! I just put some more stuff into my Crack Lawyer class. It's based off of lawyers in general, but I got the idea from Atticus Finch to start, hence his place at the top of the screen.

[ErrantX]

Unlike last contest, where I only had a few vague ideas that amounted to nothing, I have a very definite one this time: the Abhorsen, based on Garth Nix's Old Kingdom trilogy.

I'm reading those books right now! That's so awesome :D

-X

[MoleMage]

If I can think of a good place to start for them, I might try Furycrafters from Jim Butcher's Caulderon series. But if someone else wants to do this go ahead. I'm really busy and might not have time to do it justice.

[sirpercival]

If I can think of a good place to start for them, I might try Furycrafters from Jim Butcher's Caulderon series. But if someone else wants to do this go ahead. I'm really busy and might not have time to do it justice.

I actually thought about how to do this once... it was for a base class, though. You picked up more types of furies as you leveled, and they were kind of like a cross between an animal companion and an elemental companion.

[Techwarrior]

Ymurri Stalker

I think yes.

[sirpercival]

Ymurri Stalker

I think yes.
Oh, awesome!

[Morph Bark]

Ymurri Stalker

I think yes.

Do I smell Nightangel Trilogy?

[Techwarrior]

Do I smell Nightangel Trilogy?

Absolutely. Hell I'm running a game on MW set that world, half a century after. I've got the basics planned out for a NPC I'm going to use.

[Mephibosheth]

The crunch for my Samana of the Woods (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15018065&postcount=4) PrC, based on Herman Hesse's Siddhartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28novel%29) is tentatively done. I'd really appreciate any input, especially on the flee from Self and final emptiness of Self abilities. They're fairly open-ended abilities and I'm not sure I've closed the loopholes I should; at least as far as I can within the text of the ability. A lot of its power is going to come from the enemies the DM chooses, which can't be controlled for in the class. But I want to make sure that the ability itself doesn't open the door to any crazy broken tricks. So any and all input would be wonderful!

Thanks!

[sirpercival]

The crunch for my Samana of the Woods (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15018065&postcount=4) PrC, based on Herman Hesse's Siddhartha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28novel%29) is tentatively done. I'd really appreciate any input, especially on the flee from Self and final emptiness of Self abilities. They're fairly open-ended abilities and I'm not sure I've closed the loopholes I should; at least as far as I can within the text of the ability. A lot of its power is going to come from the enemies the DM chooses, which can't be controlled for in the class. But I want to make sure that the ability itself doesn't open the door to any crazy broken tricks. So any and all input would be wonderful!

Thanks!

So, first off, the class reminds me of a refluffed Stranger with the Burning Eyes (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Stranger_with_the_Burning_Eyes_(3.5e_Prestige_Clas s)).

Now, on to the actual mechanics. First off, the Power in Austerity has absolutely no effect at the level that you give it. I'd either move it to second level or (preferred) move the signature ability to level 1. At the moment, level 1 is nearly a dead level, giving you all of DR 1/- and a niche bonus to saves.

As for the signature ability, it's way too swingy for my tastes. On the one hand, you don't start being able to use it on level-appropriate targets until about 5th level; on the other hand, it can give you an incredible variety of capabilities, and is kind of broken because of it; on the third hand, your body is so vulnerable that it's dangerous to do it at all, especially at low level when you won't be getting anywhere near your return on investment.

The other abilities are good filler, but the meat of the class needs some work IMO.

[Mephibosheth]

So, first off, the class reminds me of a refluffed Stranger with the Burning Eyes (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Stranger_with_the_Burning_Eyes_(3.5e_Prestige_Clas s)).

Thanks for the link! That's an interesting class!


Now, on to the actual mechanics. First off, the Power in Austerity has absolutely no effect at the level that you give it. I'd either move it to second level or (preferred) move the signature ability to level 1. At the moment, level 1 is nearly a dead level, giving you all of DR 1/- and a niche bonus to saves.

Good point. I've made all the class abilities contingent on Power of Austerity, so it has some utility at 1st level. Ultimately, it's supposed to be more of a hindrance than a benefit, but the way of the ascetic isn't supposed to be easy! :smallwink: I want it to be a part of the entire progression of the class to emphasize the inherent link between asceticism and the class abilities.


As for the signature ability, it's way too swingy for my tastes. On the one hand, you don't start being able to use it on level-appropriate targets until about 5th level;

Now that you mention it, I can't believe I didn't notice this! But you're absolutely right. Would a HD cap of 5 + Wis mod + class level work better? I hesitate to use character level to discourage dipping and like the possibility of making the ability better by pumping Wis. Thoughts?


on the other hand, it can give you an incredible variety of capabilities, and is kind of broken because of it;

This was and is my main concern. The problem is that there are so many creatures from so many different authors all with different ideas of balance; I can't think of any way to rein this in other than "DM's, don't mess up!" Maybe a list of abilities you can use? But there are so many possibilities!


on the third hand, your body is so vulnerable that it's dangerous to do it at all, especially at low level when you won't be getting anywhere near your return on investment.

Hopefully this is less of a problem now that they have access to better forms right off the bat. But probably not. I don't want to eliminate the risk of attack to the meditating body, otherwise it's effectively Polymorph. I also don't want to add a bunch of defenses for no reason other than to make this less of a risk. I'll have to think on this some.

Thanks again for the comments!

[Mephibosheth]

The more I work on it, the more I'm dissatisfied with the way the Samana's going, so I'm withdrawing it. Thanks, sirpercival, for the helpful comments! And sorry for the double post.

[sirpercival]

The more I work on it, the more I'm dissatisfied with the way the Samana's going, so I'm withdrawing it. Thanks, sirpercival, for the helpful comments! And sorry for the double post.

Oh no! :( This isn't what I was hoping for... I'd be happy to help you brainstorm some alternate way to realize the concept, because I think it's really cool (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered commenting).

[Mephibosheth]

Don't worry; I was contemplating this well before your comments! I was struggling with the open-endedness of Flee from Self, trying to shoe-horn the description from Siddhartha into the D&D rules set and cope with the vast vast number of possible abilities they could gain from different creatures. That, and I was having some crises of flavor from multiple sources; as much as I love it, Siddhartha was a poor choice for this contest given the need to skirt the boundaries of the board's prohibition of discussion of real-world religion and I was resorting to increasingly-byzantine machinations when trying to come up with reasons why a Samana would join a party and adventure. I may still try to come up with something along this theme, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked limiting myself to the depiction in Siddhartha. Making it increasingly less appropriate for the contest. I still have what I wrote so far so it may reappear. But it just wasn't a creation I wanted to represent me in the contest. I may think of something else; I love this theme and want to participate.

[Tragak]

I'm working on a Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Alucard Hellsing-esque PrC for the "Based on a Bestseller" Contest, and I'm wondering what kind of feats beyond "Vampire Hunter" are good for fiend-killing that could work as Bonus Feats for certain levels.

[ErrantX]

I'm working on a Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Alucard Hellsing-esque PrC for the "Based on a Bestseller" Contest, and I'm wondering what kind of feats beyond "Vampire Hunter" are good for fiend-killing that could work as Bonus Feats for certain levels.

Love the concept, but I have to say, Bonus Feats do not a class feature make. Instead focus on unique class abilities that really says, "I'm no mere bonus feat, I am flavor and potency, mixed into one. I am the sriracha of class features!" Consider giving improvised weapon abilities, improved staking abilities, and more than just favored enemy. Make it something important, like "Destined Foe" and give it more than the standard bonuses of Favored Enemy give like AC and save boosts too. Don't be afraid to make it stronger than the average bear; prestige classes are specialists in their field, not a mere ranger who's abilities are broader and more generalized. Look at the monk class, ranger, and rogue for inspiration. Give the slayer class something like the ability to final death vampires instead of letting them go misty, and same goes for liches. These are strong abilities that are specialized to a specific foe; in their field they're peerless, in others... they're so-so.

I'm not terrible knowledgeable of Alucard, but as a Buffy fan I can say that the Slayer has a lot of potency. You could have it get some stat boosts as well, and faster healing to get back to the job quick. Don't fall into the fighter's trap; bonus feats may be alright for the fighter, but for prestige classes, it's best to stay away from them I feel.

My 2 coppers,
-X

[malonkey1]

Word to what ErrantX said, plus also, I feel they should be able to sneak attack and score crits on undead. It fits thematically.

[ErrantX]

Word to what ErrantX said, plus also, I feel they should be able to sneak attack and score crits on undead. It fits thematically.

Or, give them variable 'Slayer Gifts' that function similar to Rogue Talents in which you can pick abilities at 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th level (for example) that give them stuff like +2d6 sneak attack and all sneak attacks function against the undead, etc.

-X

[Tragak]

Thanks, that was fast!

What I have so far is: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15091747#post15091747)
1) Attack/Damage bonus against Undead and Evil Outsiders (slightly higher than Smite Evil or Favored Enemy, but nowhere near as versatile as either)
2) Undead can be critically hit
3) Undead and evil outsiders can be paralyzed by powerful attacks for about 3 rounds, with 10 being the absolute maximum under extremely unusual circumstances
4) the slayer gets bonuses to Use Magic Device checks when reading from scrolls of Banishment, Dimensional Anchor, Sunbeam and the such.

Too much? Too little? I realize that I need to work more on the "fluff" like role-play ideas and an NPC example, but it feels like the "crunch" is pretty good so far, is this accurate?

Thanks again!

[sirpercival]

OK, Glass Elevator maneuvers are posted. Now, on to the supplemental material, as well as the candysmith itself.

[Tesla]

I think I have an idea for this contest, and it is a class that I have considered making on several other occasions. However I have a few questions about the rules and expectations if that is alright.

Questions about Rules
11. If the class ties into a new feat set would it be better to post that in another thread, or add it as a second post in the contest thread? [I have four as it sits, and I expect to have ten or more before I make my post. Additionally it would have a paragraph or two explaining requirements to keep the feats active.]

12. My class is blatantly inspired by a particular book series that I enjoy so it technically fits the theme, but it goes above the supernatural abilities displayed in the series. [If I replicated only what they were proven capable of by the reliable narrator it would be more of an NPC prestige class, and so I am taking some liberties with what the unreliable narrator said.] So I was hoping to know if that would be frowned upon.

13. If the particular abilities of the class count as a partial spoiler would that be against the rules? [The abilities are not introduced until book three of the series, but that book was released five years ago.]

Questions about Expectations
14. I know that bonus feats tend to be frowned upon here, but because I am using a synergy feat system to form the basis for entering the class I was thinking about doing something similar to bonus feats. Would people frown upon a class counting certain class features as synergy feats so that the feats tied to the class continue to grow in power? Example: A class that focuses on Aberrant feats providing abilities that count as Aberrant feats, and that perhaps grow in power based on the number of Aberrant feats you have. Essentially linking class levels and feats.

Thank you very much if you answer one of my questions, and best of luck in your own work.


What I have so far is:

1. Focused Training looks perfect to me.

2. Personally, I would make it so that they have a chance to critical hit at early levels, and slowly gain more of a chance to have a critical hit go through as their level increases. However that is just personal taste, and I do like the ability itself.

3. Improved Eldritch Experience, and Greater Eldritch Experience both look pretty good to me.

4. I like the bonuses to UMD for these abilities as it makes logical sense. However I looked at the class and you have them increasing the save DC by a rather large number after a while.

So far I think that you are doing a pretty good job.

[ErrantX]

I think I have an idea for this contest, and it is a class that I have considered making on several other occasions. However I have a few questions about the rules and expectations if that is alright.

Questions about Rules
11. If the class ties into a new feat set would it be better to post that in another thread, or add it as a second post in the contest thread? [I have four as it sits, and I expect to have ten or more before I make my post. Additionally it would have a paragraph or two explaining requirements to keep the feats active.]

It's perfectly reasonable to have a 2nd post if necessary. No worries.


12. My class is blatantly inspired by a particular book series that I enjoy so it technically fits the theme, but it goes above the supernatural abilities displayed in the series. [If I replicated only what they were proven capable of by the reliable narrator it would be more of an NPC prestige class, and so I am taking some liberties with what the unreliable narrator said.] So I was hoping to know if that would be frowned upon.

No, that's fine. It's inspired and based on but not an exact duplicate. Do what needs to be done to make it work!


13. If the particular abilities of the class count as a partial spoiler would that be against the rules? [The abilities are not introduced until book three of the series, but that book was released five years ago.]

That's fine with me.


Questions about Expectations
14. I know that bonus feats tend to be frowned upon here, but because I am using a synergy feat system to form the basis for entering the class I was thinking about doing something similar to bonus feats. Would people frown upon a class counting certain class features as synergy feats so that the feats tied to the class continue to grow in power? Example: A class that focuses on Aberrant feats providing abilities that count as Aberrant feats, and that perhaps grow in power based on the number of Aberrant feats you have. Essentially linking class levels and feats.

Thank you very much if you answer one of my questions, and best of luck in your own work.

That could work; we only frown upon bonus feats as class features if they're poorly defined or just "Here have a feat because I'm too lazy to put something here". Something like that could work.

-X

[ErrantX]

Thanks, that was fast!

What I have so far is: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15091747#post15091747)
1) Attack/Damage bonus against Undead and Evil Outsiders (slightly higher than Smite Evil or Favored Enemy, but nowhere near as versatile as either)
Versatility is key. Don't be afraid to make it a more powerful version, or let it stack with favored enemy and do these additional abilities as well (insert additional abilities here).


2) Undead can be critically hit

Pretty standard and necessary. Add in precision damage too.


3) Undead as evil outsiders can be paralyzed by powerful attacks for about 3 rounds, with 10 being the absolute maximum under extremely unusual circumstances

Undead aren't evil outsiders, but assuming you meant AND evil outsiders, make it a die roll, like, 1d4+1 or so rounds.


4) the slayer gets bonuses to Use Magic Device checks when reading from scrolls of Banishment, Dimensional Anchor, Sunbeam and the such.

Kind of a niche ability, honestly. Maybe a flat bonus to activate blindly?

I think you're definitely gonna need more abilities, obviously, and have some that aren't necessarily in combat use, but have some out of combat things that help your class bounce back, or resistance abilities that protect your slayer from the abilities of the undead, such as DR against energy drain or stat damage.

-X

[Tragak]

Versatility is key. Don't be afraid to make it a more powerful version, or let it stack with favored enemy and do these additional abilities as well (insert additional abilities here). Actually, I just meant that Smite Evil can be used against anything Evil, and Favored Enemy can be taken against a bunch of different types, while Focused Training only applies to Undead and Evil Outsiders (although any and all would stack normally).

Pretty standard and necessary. Add in precision damage too. Already ahead of you.

Undead aren't evil outsiders, but assuming you meant AND evil outsiders, make it a die roll, like, 1d4+1 or so rounds. That was the point: 1d4 for the level 6 ability (critical hits), 1d6 for the level 9 ability (50% HP hits)
EDIT: and thanks for correcting the typo :smallwink:

Kind of a niche ability, honestly. Maybe a flat bonus to activate blindly?

I think you're definitely gonna need more abilities, obviously, and have some that aren't necessarily in combat use, but have some out of combat things that help your class bounce back, or resistance abilities that protect your slayer from the abilities of the undead, such as DR against energy drain or stat damage. OK, hadn't thought of that, thanks. Definitely looking into it.

BTW, is there a way to find an archive of past contest winners? I'm mostly wondering about stuff like where specific fluff information goes and how much depth to put into it, and I'm thinking that seeing the past winners would give me some kind of base-line of what exactly is expected, is this possible?

[Tragak]

Ok, I think it's pretty close to finished now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15091747#post15091747) Did I miss anything, mess anything up?

[inuyasha]

Ok, I think it's pretty close to finished now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15091747#post15091747) Did I miss anything, mess anything up?

even though Im not in this contest (I waited too long and will probably be in the next one ;D) I must say your NPC has a low AC, 17 at level 13? seems like she needs Dex boosters or something, also nice buffy PrC :D

[JoshuaZ]

Ok, I think it's pretty close to finished now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15091747#post15091747) Did I miss anything, mess anything up?

Um, why nothing at 10th level? A 9 level class is fine, but having just a deadish level at 10 is weird, although they do get an additional +1 to a few things which is nice. It does seem like it needs some sort of capstone things if it is going to be 10 levels.

Also, it may make sense to state explicitly that Focused Training counts as a favored enemy bonus. This will be relevant potentially for some feats and the like that they may want to qualify for.

[Tragak]

Thanks for the tip. I just added a Special Abilities progression (as was also recommended earlier), and I'm going to flesh out the details soon.

Also, I was thinking that the character's AC wouldn't include the DEX modifier due to heavy armor, so I didn't give her significant DEX, whereas I should've noticed by paying any attention at all, before double checking right this second, that mithril breastplates would actually allow significant DEX bonuses, and the whole point of the scenario should've reminded me that even paladins aren't wearing their heaviest armor all of the time and DEX would still be important.

More importantly, until I double checked the previous, I somehow forgot that both her shield and armor were magic (and would add 13 instead of 7) taken care of.

Is "noobed" an accepted verb for when somebody missed a bunch of stuff that's this basic? :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface:

[inuyasha]

Is "noobed" an accepted verb for when somebody missed a bunch of stuff that's this basic? :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface:
usually: yes
when your new to the forums: naw we dont care :smallcool:

[Rabidmuskrat]

Leader of Men (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15115019&postcount=10) PrC posted.

Still working on the fluff, but the crunch is pretty much finished. Just the capstone that still needs to be done. It is just going to make pretty much everything BETTER.

PEACH me, if you would be so kind. Odds are I screwed up big time somewhere, especially the terminology.

[Techwarrior]

I'd appreciate it greatly if someone could take a look at the Ymurri Stalker for me balancewise. I'll try to get PEACHes out to the other competitors after this weekend, time permitting. I've got the capstone finished, but don't have time to type it out quite yet.

[Mephibosheth]

OK! *breathes*

The crunch of Vessel of the Ancient Gods (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15094260&postcount=8) is finally ready, pending comments and input from the playground. Complete with new vestiges (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15101272&postcount=9). I hope you enjoy it!

I have no practical experience playing a binder, so I would really appreciate people's input on the balance and appropriate level of the new vestiges he asks hopefully, his heart in his throat. Any input you have would be wonderful!

[Temotei]

This is a really cool theme. I'm thinking either Fahrenheit 451 or The Picture of Dorian Gray. We'll see which one I get more inspiration on. :smalltongue:

[Glimbur]

I'm not making a class based on the Art of War anymore. It was turning into a Marshal fix, rather than a PrC.

I am making a class based on Cobra, by Timothy Zahn.

[ErrantX]

Trying to be more active here on the contest, I noticed a drop off of activity in it from the forums as of late and I think my absence at times it impacting it. I do my best, but and I will try harder from this contest on.

I will try to hit up classes tonight with some critique's / advice / ideas tonight. If you want me to look at your class, just post here and it would help me especially if there is something in particular you want me to look out or if it's just a general look-over.

Thanks!

-X

[sirpercival]

I would LOVE if you (as LoB god) would take a look at Glass Elevator, part of the Candysmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15042849#post15042849).

[Tesla]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the helpful and swift answers ErrantX. My first draft has been made thanks to those allowances. Best of luck everyone.

[Kazyan]

I would contribute to the activity, but I have no ideas. I don't read enough books.

Would it be valid to make an entry based off the main character of Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality? It's strictly a fanfic of a book, but easily as long.

[Tragak]

Couldn't you just base it on the real thing? :smallconfused:

[ErrantX]

I would contribute to the activity, but I have no ideas. I don't read enough books.

Would it be valid to make an entry based off the main character of Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality? It's strictly a fanfic of a book, but easily as long.

As the opening says, please cite your influence and provide links to information about it (even it's just a wiki). The idea was to make classes AND broaden people's horizons. That's fine with me, just link it!

And to everyone else, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE link your influence, again, even it's just the wikipedia entry. Something. Thanks!

-X

[Mephibosheth]

PEACH of Crack Lawyer:

This is obviously (and appropriately) a very niche class; it has almost no combat utility and explicitly exempts combat applications of a lot of its bluff-related abilities, but it can be very useful in a social skills- and intrigue-heavy campaign. Doubly so if that campaign involves any legal proceedings. But the utility of a lot of the abilities depends on how the DM deals with social skills. I'd definitely want to have that nailed down before I chose this PrC.

The basic chassis and proficiencies reinforce this understanding; poor BAB, poor physical saves, high will save, lots of skill points, no new weapon or armor proficiencies. This class is clearly going to be avoiding combat and using social skills to great effect.

Courtroom Demeanor is helpful in limiting the number of skills a crack lawyer has to invest in seriously and helping maximize other social skills. Not much else to say.

The Courtroom Maneuvers are a mixed bag.
I Object! needs to have its effects more clearly stated, imo. What happens if you succeed on your Profession (lawyer) check)? I would imagine that the skill check you interrupted fails, but it doesn't actually say that in the text. Going off this assumption, this ability could be helpful until you realize that bluff is really the only social skill intended to be used against PCs. Diplomacy use against PCs is frowned upon, iirc, because it can take agency away from the players. Otherwise, it really depends on how you're using Perform (oratory) and Profession (lawyer). If it's a courtroom campaign and there's a defined role for these skills, this could be great. It could also have some helpful uses outside the courtroom. But its usefulness really depends on how the DM runs social skills. Also, could a crack lawyer use this ability to preempt a bardic performance that's based on Perform (oratory)? That could be something important to nail down...
Cross Examination is pretty niche. It seems geared more toward an adventuring party than an actual courtroom, unless there's a team of lawyers led by the crack lawyer. Could be helpful in an intrigue-heavy campaign, but that seems about it. Also, how long does the lawyer have to cross examine for before her allies get the benefit? Or is it just the time required for a Sense Motive check?
Approach the Bench seems really niche, even for a niche class. How often are you going to be having a whispered conversation? How often are your going to be having a whispered conversation with someone against whom you'd like to use a Bluff or Intimidate check. If the circumstances are right it'd be great, but the circumstances seem rare to me.
Now Star Witness I really like. It could be gold in an intrigue and investigation campaign, letting the best person for each interaction make social skill checks using the crack lawyer's modifiers. Adds a lot of flexibility to the party, since just about anyone could be the face. You should specify who constitutes "the target." My guess is it's the ally who's making the check.
Surprise Witness seems to be the only ability that has any combat utility. It's like free circumstantial Leadership! Unless the "only in a courtroom or similar setting" caveat at the end applies to all uses of the ability rather than just the extra 2 uses per day.
The rest of the abilities seem like more of the same; pumping your social skills and letting you substitute Profession (lawyer) or Perform (oratory) (because of Courtroom Demeanor) for most of your social skills. Helpful, but not overwhelmingly inspiring. And again, great in the right campaign but underwhelming otherwise.

My only other crunchy comment is that a lot of the abilities are about letting you be more effective at abilities you already have rather than giving you cool new things to do. That's fine; there's enough meat in this class to make it attractive to the right character, but it is something to think about. Some of the abilities that just give bonuses to skill checks or replace skill checks with other skill checks might be more inspiring if they gave some cool new abilities too.

Fluff-wise, I think this class is really good at portraying the great attorneys of fiction. I'm only really familiar with Atticus Finch, but I think he'd work well as a crack lawyer. In fact, going slowly off the Atticus Finch example, it might be fun to inject some abilities based on a principled stand taken by the crack lawyer when she takes her first level. Some legal or moral principle that she won't budge on, even if it destroys her career. Then, when she's defending that principle, she gets some interesting bonuses or new abilities. I don't know; just an idea.

Please don't take my repeated "this is a niche class" comments as criticism. I think there's definitely a place for this class and it fills that place well. It's just a very very specialized place.

Those are my thoughts, for what it's worth.

[Zelkon]

Really? No Mockingjay yet? Up to me, I guess.

[Mephibosheth]

PEACH of Glass Elevator:

Bear in mind that I have limited experience with ToB in games and have never homebrewed anything for the subsystem. So this is just based on reading carefully and looking at the core ToB content. But hopefully it will be somewhat helpful.

Black Box of Frogs seems a little powerful for a 6th level maneuver. No attack roll, no save, just dragged underground. That's at least one round wasted automatically. Plus they have to make Con checks to avoid suffocating. Maybe a barbarian or fighter could last a while, but this could be death on swift wings for a character with lower Con. A DC 20 Str check isn't too hard to make, unless you don't have a Str bonus.

How long to the temporary hit points granted by Cavity-Filling Caramels last? Until they're lost?

Chocolate River is also a little confusing. You say that affected creatures take damage the initial round and the following round and are unable to breathe. Are they still unable to breathe after the 2nd round? The fact that it takes 3 rounds to scrape the chocolate off indicates that such is the case, but it's not clear, at least to me.

Does Exploding Candy allow you to use a maneuver of a higher level than your initiator level would allow you to learn? I'm guessing it doesn't, but the text isn't clear and the only example seems to indicate that the limiting factors are more circumstantial (i.e. could any candysmith initiate this maneuver, given the situation in combat) than level-based.

I love Fizzy Lifting Drink!

Fragile Egos seems a bit underwhelming for a 4th level maneuver. I know that failing a Will save can suck hard, but it seems like a 4th level maneuver should be better.

Can the target of Fudge Mountain do anything to clear its lungs if it is suffocating? Or does it need to be rescued from without?

I also love Glumptious Globgobblers! Risky since it could allow an enemy to down a potion of its choice without taking an action to do so, but fun!

And Three-Course Dinner Chewing Gum, too!

So...not too many useful comments. Sorry for the underwhelming PEACH. Mostly things I thought were a bit confusing. Like I said, I don't have a ton of ToB experience. But I thought the discipline as a whole was very well done and a terrific adaptation of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Can't wait to see the rest of the candysmith class abilities!

[sirpercival]

PEACH of Glass Elevator: Thank you!


Bear in mind that I have limited experience with ToB in games and have never homebrewed anything for the subsystem. So this is just based on reading carefully and looking at the core ToB content. But hopefully it will be somewhat helpful. No worries. I appreciate this :)


Black Box of Frogs seems a little powerful for a 6th level maneuver. No attack roll, no save, just dragged underground. That's at least one round wasted automatically. Plus they have to make Con checks to avoid suffocating. Maybe a barbarian or fighter could last a while, but this could be death on swift wings for a character with lower Con. A DC 20 Str check isn't too hard to make, unless you don't have a Str bonus. It's a round lost, but it's also a round where the PCs can't attack you, so it's not exactly a death sentence. Also doesn't stop purely mental actions like psionic powers or no-component spells. Gives them a 1-round respite, at least. As for the Con checks, remember that you can hold your breath for rounds = Con SCORE *2 before you even need to start making checks. So the suffocation thing will almost never be a problem.


How long to the temporary hit points granted by Cavity-Filling Caramels last? Until they're lost? Correct. And temp hp don't stack.


Chocolate River is also a little confusing. You say that affected creatures take damage the initial round and the following round and are unable to breathe. Are they still unable to breathe after the 2nd round? The fact that it takes 3 rounds to scrape the chocolate off indicates that such is the case, but it's not clear, at least to me. Yes, damage is over 2 rounds, and not-breathing lasts until the chocolate is scraped off.


Does Exploding Candy allow you to use a maneuver of a higher level than your initiator level would allow you to learn? I'm guessing it doesn't, but the text isn't clear and the only example seems to indicate that the limiting factors are more circumstantial (i.e. could any candysmith initiate this maneuver, given the situation in combat) than level-based. This shouldn't be a problem, since Exploding Candy is a 9th-level maneuver.


I love Fizzy Lifting Drink! :)


Fragile Egos seems a bit underwhelming for a 4th level maneuver. I know that failing a Will save can suck hard, but it seems like a 4th level maneuver should be better. Duly noted, I'll see if I can beef it up a little.


Can the target of Fudge Mountain do anything to clear its lungs if it is suffocating? Or does it need to be rescued from without? Hmm... I'll clarify.


I also love Glumptious Globgobblers! Risky since it could allow an enemy to down a potion of its choice without taking an action to do so, but fun!

And Three-Course Dinner Chewing Gum, too! :D


So...not too many useful comments. Sorry for the underwhelming PEACH. Mostly things I thought were a bit confusing. Like I said, I don't have a ton of ToB experience. But I thought the discipline as a whole was very well done and a terrific adaptation of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Can't wait to see the rest of the candysmith class abilities!Thank you, you definitely pointed out a couple things that need to be addressed. I'm glad you like it!

[Zelkon]

I hope I have enough time to finish the Mockingjay because I have an absolutely awesome idea for it!

[Rabidmuskrat]

The Leader of Men (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15115019&postcount=10) is completely finished. PEACH away, if you please. I suspect it may be a little underpowered for its 10 levels.

Once I've rested a bit I'll take a look at some of the other PrC for some PEACH love.

[Mephibosheth]

PEACH of Leader of Men:

So, I think this is an interesting PrC that attempts to implement an archetype that, I think, is hard for D&D to accommodate effectively.

Part of the problem is that a leader-type character either has to focus on enhancing the capabilities of the other PCs in her team or on bringing her own team to the table as a feat or class ability. The former can be done effectively but can seem somewhat lackluster in actual play experience; it's more difficult to see the effects of your actions if most of what you do is enabling other characters do perform their tasks better. The latter is difficult to balance; bringing one or more entire new characters to the table can be very powerful, split the player's focus, and make the initial character seem less special; the thing that makes her cool isn't her abilities, it's her cohort. So, which is the PC?

It seems like the idea behind Leader of Men is to address this conundrum by building a class around a group that includes a fair number of low-level but still resilient team members. The sample NPC bears this out; an ECL 9 Leader of Men with a group of 8 2nd level fighters. The problem with this approach is that, if I'm in an adventuring party of anywhere above 5th level, when I see 8 2nd level fighters I'm more likely view them as AoE fodder than credible threats. Admittedly, many of the Leader of Men's class features ameliorate this concern by making them more resilient and better at teamwork, but it doesn't address the underlying problem that, typically, many low-level opponents is an easier challenge than a few higher-level ones.

Another problem I see with Leader of Men is that, while the sample NPC is a fighter and the class seems geared toward martial types with decent Charisma, the optimizer in me wants to enter the class as a bard or sorcerer, pump my Charisma through the roof, and have as powerful a Band of Brothers as possible. So, my hypothetical bard 7/LoM 1 with a Charisma of 18 would be able to have 27 hit dice of followers (4*[1+4]+7=27 if I remember my order of operations correctly). And there's nothing keeping me from having as few followers as possible, so theoretically I could be an ECL 8 character with one 27 HD member of my Band of Brothers. Even if I were more reasonable and split things up, I could still have a 4 member group where everyone (myself included) is 8th level, plus a 2nd level comic relief guy. If I went bard 5/mindbender 3/LoM 1 instead, I'd have even more followers and be able to communicate with them all telepathically! These are easy problems to solve; just impose a per-member HD cap or a minimum number of brothers. But the rules as written allow for a pretty powerful group, if I'm understanding them correctly.

Another thing to think about is that the PrC requires Leadership for entry. This is already considered a very powerful feat and it doesn't even come close to the power level of Band of Brothers. But you don't talk about how they interact. Does the Band of Brothers take the place of the benefits of Leadership? Is it separate? How does that work?

One other thing I thought might be interesting to incorporate is abilities that promote other types of teams. Right now, all the abilities except Inspirational Speech are geared toward combat. But it might be fun to incorporate some abilities for a leader of the Danny Ocean or Henry Gondorff archetype. Abilities that give bonuses to skill checks or certain types of spellcasting.

I hope I'm not being too harsh. I like the class and think it has a lot of potential. And maybe I'm misunderstanding the Band of Brothers ability. But as I read it, it seems far more powerful than I'd be comfortable with.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Ah, perhaps I should go clarify the ability a bit, it seems there is a slight misunderstanding.

The Band of Brothers ability allows you to add willing individuals to your 'Unit' but provides no way for you to obtain these willing individuals. This is where the leadership feat comes in. You may add cohorts, followers, party members, whatever you have available to your unit, but you don't get anything new. Yes, you could have a single 27HD creature in your unit at fairly low level if you can find one. And if you can find one, why can't you just have it tagging along even without the LoM class? The class feature is actually quite weak in that regard - it provides zero benefit on its own. The Unit is an empty shell, it is up to the player to fill it and odds are he won't be able to (or want to) fill it to capacity as those cohorts/followers/other party members take their cut of the xp/loot.

And you are absolutely right about the archetype I'm trying to do with this class. I got the idea for it from a game I'm playing in which I play both a fighter and the party leader. As a leader I am quite successful, but I find myself falling behind all the other melee characters in terms of combat ability and wishing I could do more to play up my leadership aspects during an engagement.

[Mephibosheth]

Ah. That makes sense. You should definitely clarify that in the ability itself; it reads like the group springs into existence when you take your first class level. Of course, now you have the problem that your character's power is almost entirely dependent upon the sufferance of the DM. If the DM wants to railroad or cut your power for some reason, he can just refuse to have people willing to join your band. Or have everyone be too low level to be useful. Hopefully that isn't the case, but you never know.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Somewhat. But the idea is more that you add the people already in your party to your Unit as a baseline. Remember, nowhere does it say you cannot add the other players to your Unit, nor does it give you any ability to control them. In addition to that, your cohorts and followers can all become Unit Members as well, or not as you prefer.

The Unit is just a mechanic to prevent you from arbitrarily assigning bonuses to whatever vaguely allied creature happens to be nearby. Otherwise you are a bard without spells. I could probably remove the Band of Brothers class feature entirely and have all the other class features simply key off the party instead, but I originally thought this would be easier. Now I'm not so sure.

Also, if the DM allows the Leadership feat then he has already made additional NPCs available to join you.

Edits to PrC:
Clarified Band of Brothers rule text.
Fixed Encounter HPs (boosted slightly).
Added Encounter equipment: Ring of Counterspells.
Added the Direct Action and Planning Ahead class features.

[Mephibosheth]

PEACH of Ymurri Stalker:

First, I'm anxiously awaiting the fluff on this one. I have no idea where Ymurri Stalkers come from or what role they play in whatever piece of media they appear, but they seem fantastic!

Out of curiosity, why require 9 ranks in Ride instead of 8, or BAB +6 instead of BAB +5. In my experience, the jumping off point for a PrC is typically either 5th level (8 ranks or BAB +5) or 10th level (13 ranks or BAB +10). Obviously there are exceptions and it's not a balance concern in any way, but I was just curious.

Also, a list of class skills would be a good thing! :smallwink:

The spellcasting description is a little confusing for characters that don't start with any spellcasting levels. You say that they gain the spellcasting progression of a 1st level ranger, which is...nothing. Ranger spells don't kick in until 4th level. Unless your intention was for a Ymurri Stalker to gain no spells until her 4th class level. Easy fix; just give them spellcasting as a 4th level ranger instead!

The skirmish progression is a little unconventional. Usually, skirmish damage and AC bonus increase alternate (so, 1st level is a damage increase, 3rd level is an AC increase, 5th level is a damage increase, etc.). Maybe it was your intention to shake this up, but I thought I'd mention it.

Ymurri Mount also looks fine, though it too could use some clarifying. I assume that your intention was for the numbers listed on the table to be the cumulative total bonus, not that they gain +4 HD at 1st level, another +6 HD at 2nd level, and so on. If so, you should clarify in the text, since one could interpret the table as the bonus gained at each level rather than the cumulative bonus gained. Also, you're missing a plus sign on Con at 6th level on the chart. And finally, I'm afb right now and haven't really played many paladins, but the section about non-standard mounts confuses me. Maybe it will become clear when I get back to my DMG this afternoon, but you might want to consider clarifying what you mean there. Other than that, everything looks fine.

Ride as One is fine; pretty standard bonus to Ride checks. Moving on.

I can't think of any specific problems right now, but I'm generally leery of effects that give extra actions. Admittedly, a move action isn't as bad as a standard action, but it's something to consider. Maybe a limited number of times per day? Also, the last sentence could use some cleaning up. I'd suggest, "The Stalker must use the move action in the round it is acquired, or it is lost, and the Stalker must be remain mounted during for the duration of their turn."

No major problems with Stalk as One. The change in the mount's space seems a little strange; I assume its to facilitate hiding behind smaller objects. I can envision situations in which it would be useful in combat too; fewer adjacent squares leads to fewer flanking opponents, for example. I like it, and it seems to synergize with the flavor of the mount's slight build ability.

Sniper is a bit confusing. What do you mean by "attack modes normally restricted to melee?" Trip/grapple/disarm/etc.? Power attack? How far does it go? Also, I'd suggest re-wording, "Essentially, the Stalker may choose to use the listed range for an abilities maximum range or the distance of one range increment for the weapon they are using, whichever is higher." as "The Stalker can use these abilities while within one range increment of their current weapon or within the maximum range of the ability in question, whichever is greater." Finally, there's an incomplete sentence at the end. "While sniping..."

No problems with Flow as One, either. Mutual evasion and sharing saves is pretty standard for mount PrCs. I really like Swift Eye, too, though I might include a per day or per encounter limit, since a swift action each round means that they would probably always be making touch attacks.

Strike as One seems fine to me, too. It's a powerful ability but comes late in the progression. On thing I will caution (and this, now that I think of it, is a concern for the whole class) is that the scout errata clarified that movement while mounted doesn't trigger skirmish. I'd suggest adding an ability to deal with this issue, otherwise Ymurri Stalkers aren't going to be dealing any of their precision damage.

Cluster Shot is awesome! You just need to clarify what sort of action it takes to use the ability. I'm assuming full-attack action, since it basically distills all the stalker's attacks into one attack roll.

Finally, what do Move as One and Body and Mind do? They're on the table but don't have descriptions.

Great looking class so far! Can't wait for the fluff!

[Rabidmuskrat]

PEACH of Vessel of the Ancient Gods

First a Disclaimer: My experience with binders is limited to one player in a game I'm DMing. And he basically just tells me what he can do and I don't ask further.

Nothing much to say about the actual class, its basically just a binder with some funny signs. One question, how does this compare to a Binder balance wise? What do you lose out on by taking this class instead of more levels in Binder? It doesn't sound like you miss much at all. If so, it is perhaps a bit too strong.

Bird
At what level does the VotAG rebuke? Character level? Class level? How does it stack with levels in cleric? The description is very vague.
The at will summon is very very strong. You can effectively summon a creature of your own level AT WILL. True, only 1 at a time, but you can summon them in sequence as they die.
Hit Dice are also a very bad metric for what you can summon in any way. Rather give a specific list at each level (like the summon monster spells). To give you an idea, at lvl 1 you can summon a cockatrice (CR 3 with save or die). At lvl 2 you can summon a Lammasu (CR 8). At lvl 5 you can summon a Golden Protector (CR 13).

Elephant
This allows a second save against mind affecting, but it does not specify what exactly the DC of this save is, though I'm probably nitpicking now. I suppose it would be the same DC.
It also seems strange that a Lion gains a bonus to natural armour, but an Elephant does not.

Lion
Only problem is that at lvl 10 his dex falls from 17 to 15. I suspect that is merely a typo (con goes from 15 to 17).

Spider
What abilities can the 'Goofy' ability stop? Activated abilities? What about passive abilities such as a Medusa's gaze attack?
At level 10 there are no dex gains, and his stats in general seem a bit weak for his level.
No poison attacks? Poison is a rather iconic spider ability.
The fluff stats that Spiders prefer to use trickery and bluffing, but receive no class features to assist in such endeavors.
Once again, the spider has at will summons which present the same problems of those Bird experiences. The summon itself seems a bit more balanced, though, although having 2 seperate summons could once again present problems (resummon as they die).

All in all, the summoners just seem a bit overpowered.

[Mephibosheth]

Thanks for the comments! I really appreciate the input.


Nothing much to say about the actual class, its basically just a binder with some funny signs. One question, how does this compare to a Binder balance wise? What do you lose out on by taking this class instead of more levels in Binder? It doesn't sound like you miss much at all. If so, it is perhaps a bit too strong.

It does miss out on some of the binder secondary abilities (a few of which are actually fairly decent), but now that you mention it, I think I'm going to rein it in a little. I changed the nature of its soul binding to be more effective with binding the ancient gods than with other vestiges. So each Vessel of the Ancient Gods level counts toward EBL and vestige level when binding one of the ancient gods, but only the odd levels count for binding other vestiges.


Bird
At what level does the VotAG rebuke? Character level? Class level? How does it stack with levels in cleric? The description is very vague.

Good catch. I've updated the description. EBL determines any level-dependent variables of the ability. And classes that grant Turn/Rebuke Undead don't stack.


The at will summon is very very strong. You can effectively summon a creature of your own level AT WILL. True, only 1 at a time, but you can summon them in sequence as they die.
Hit Dice are also a very bad metric for what you can summon in any way. Rather give a specific list at each level (like the summon monster spells). To give you an idea, at lvl 1 you can summon a cockatrice (CR 3 with save or die). At lvl 2 you can summon a Lammasu (CR 8). At lvl 5 you can summon a Golden Protector (CR 13).

I tried to rein this in, taking your suggestion of a list of possible summons. I don't have a ton of experience with summoning-based characters and tend to get lazy, looking for a general rule rather than doing the work of compiling a list. Which is probably the worst thing you can do with summoning abilities for the very reason you pointed out. *slaps self on the wrist* Hopefully the new version is less abuse-prone.


Elephant
This allows a second save against mind affecting, but it does not specify what exactly the DC of this save is, though I'm probably nitpicking now. I suppose it would be the same DC.
It also seems strange that a Lion gains a bonus to natural armour, but an Elephant does not.

Thanks for catching that. You're right; same DC. I should have specified. Updated.

In terms of NA for Lion and not for Elephant, I struggled a lot with what abilities to give Lion. I wanted to include it because Lion has a brief speaking role in the book, which can only be said of a few of the ancient gods. But the book doesn't really get into Lion's character and a lot of Lion-related abilities were ones I wanted to include in Tiger. So NA was really just included because I couldn't think of anything else. Whereas Elephant had a bunch of different abilities that I wanted to include, many of which are pretty powerful, especially when you factor in the great Shadow of the Ancient Gods modifications.


Lion
Only problem is that at lvl 10 his dex falls from 17 to 15. I suspect that is merely a typo (con goes from 15 to 17).

I don't know what you're talking about. *shifty eyes*


Spider
What abilities can the 'Goofy' ability stop? Activated abilities? What about passive abilities such as a Medusa's gaze attack?

All of the above. It's meant to be fairly powerful and broadly-applicable. I realize that it might be a bit too powerful, but the duration is short and it can only be used twice per day.


At level 10 there are no dex gains, and his stats in general seem a bit weak for his level.

I bumped up the Dex at 10th level; thanks for catching that. But I agree that the stats are weak in comparison to some of the others. That was kind of intentional; Anansi's strength is in his cleverness, not his physical prowess.


No poison attacks? Poison is a rather iconic spider ability.

He can get poison from his summoning ability. But the book doesn't describe Anansi as using poison himself. And since Anansi is the main focus of the novel, this was a case where I was struggling with having too many ideas for abilities rather than not enough. I had to draw the line somewhere and poison didn't seem iconic enough to the character to make the cut.


The fluff stats that Spiders prefer to use trickery and bluffing, but receive no class features to assist in such endeavors.

Another good call and a criminal oversight on my part. Skill bonus on Bluff and Disguise, coming right up! I'm also going to throw in a minor image ability, too. For use when attacked by a swarm of flamingos!


Once again, the spider has at will summons which present the same problems of those Bird experiences. The summon itself seems a bit more balanced, though, although having 2 seperate summons could once again present problems (resummon as they die).

Again, I combined the two into one ability and tried to rein it in. I hope this version is better.

[Rabidmuskrat]

My pleasure. PEACH for a PEACH. Would you be so kind as to have a look at the Direct Action and Planning Ahead class features of the LoM? I think its okay, balance wise, but being able to poop out fate points might be considered a bit overpowered. Not sure whether I've taken everything into account.

[Mephibosheth]

1d4 rounds seems like a really short delay time for Direct Action, seeing that all the other re-roll abilities I can think of are only 1/day or, a few times/day, or consumable. I know that you have to spread them out over more targets with Direct Action, but it still might be a bit too frequent. Not overwhelmingly so, but enough that it makes me slightly uncomfortable. Especially since you could do it all day with almost no penalty or meaningful delay out of combat.

I guess I'm a bit confused by Planning Ahead. Basically, it's Direct Action but set up in advance instead of used ad hoc. It still can only be used every 1d4 rounds, though, and there's no per/day limitation to Direct Action so why not just use it ad hoc? Why even bother to plan ahead? Also, "1 + 1/level above 3rd level" is a little confusing. I'd just say, "At 3rd level, each member of the Leader of Men's Unit can have one planned ahead reroll. This limit increases by 1 at each subsequent level, to a maximum of 8 planned ahead rerolls at 10th level." But again, unless this ability allows you to break the 1d4 round delay, I don't really see the point.

[Zelkon]

So, how much is our deadline extended by because of the shutdown?

[Mephibosheth]

Vessel of the Ancient Gods (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15094260&postcount=8) is officially done. I can't promise there won't be tweaking, but everything's there. I'd love to hear what people think.

[Rabidmuskrat]

The original idea with Planning Ahead was that you use your Direct Action ability when you make the plan. Therefore, it allows you to stack up uses of Direct Action for the future, but only under specific circumstances. I've since changed it to completely disconnect the two abilities' uses from each other. Direct Action is now a spur of the moment taking charge for a certain number of times per day, while Planning Ahead is an infinite use, long 'casting time' ability.

And I hope you don't mind, I used your wording of the concurrent uses of Planning Ahead, just changed a little so the ability functions as it should. I was actually struggling to word that correctly and then you provided such perfect phrasing.

[Mephibosheth]

The original idea with Planning Ahead was that you use your Direct Action ability when you make the plan. Therefore, it allows you to stack up uses of Direct Action for the future, but only under specific circumstances. I've since changed it to completely disconnect the two abilities' uses from each other. Direct Action is now a spur of the moment taking charge for a certain number of times per day, while Planning Ahead is an infinite use, long 'casting time' ability.

I think the new wording is fine, though the old mechanic linking the two would have been OK as well if you'd just specified that you don't need to deal with the delay between triggering events for Planning Ahead. But since you've eliminated the delay mechanic from Direct Action, that's no longer an issue.


And I hope you don't mind, I used your wording of the concurrent uses of Planning Ahead, just changed a little so the ability functions as it should. I was actually struggling to word that correctly and then you provided such perfect phrasing.

Not at all. That's why I suggested it!

Did I address all your concerns with Vessel of the Ancient Gods? I think I at least touched on everything, but I want to make sure I didn't miss something.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Yep, it looks good. Seems nice and balanced now, at least at first glance. You wouldn't really know until after a bit of playtesting, though, same as with all new creations.

I figure with this setup the leader CAN respond to unexpected situations but is far better at planning it out first (max 3 potential uses vs max 8 potential uses). Think I'm gonna stick with the Unit. The characters I base this class on all have their distinctive 'Team' and this seems more true to that concept.

[Mephibosheth]

PEACH of Dark Driver

This is a pretty good class. Very dark flavor and some interesting new mechanics.

I don't have much to say about the requirements. They look pretty standard for a skill-focused PrC. You say in the introduction that rogue is the best way in, so I'm going to mostly operate from the assumption that you intend this class to be a good choice for a rogue-like skill monkey build. From the requirements standpoint, no major problems.

I would consider giving 6 skill points instead of 4, especially if you want the class to be attractive to rogues and other skillful classes. I know I would definitely think twice about choosing this class on a skill monkey build because 4 skill points would force me to make some difficult decisions about skill allocation. Some of the passenger feats mitigate this concern a bit, but it's still something to think about.

Passenger abilities look fine. Most of them are off the rogue special abilities list anyway, so no major problems. You might want to mention how evasion interacts with other classes that grant evasion. Does the Dark Driver get improved evasion if he already has evasion and selects this ability? Does the sneak attack stack with other sources of sneak attack? I'd assume so (since I can't think of an example where sneak attack from different sources didn't stack) but it might be a good idea to state it outright. Because I love scouts, I'm also going to suggest adding a skirmish-bumping ability. But that's more of a personal preference thing.

What action does hellfire touch require? An attack action? A standard action? If it's an attack action, it could be a pretty devastating ability on a full-attack, especially if you can use two-weapon fighting and other methods of getting extra attacks. Not necessarily overwhelmingly so, but something to consider.

It also progresses pretty quickly for an ability of this type; they tend to advance at every other level. Not a huge problem, but something to consider, especially since it opens you to Legacy Champion and bloodline shenanigans that can increase your class level beyond 10.

HiPS is pretty standard, too. Is there a flavor reason for the connection to shadows? Or is that vestigial from the shadowdancer text?

What does "this includes penalties that they have already taken" mean in the context of ageless body? Do they still suffer penalties they may have gained before acquiring this ability? Or does the ability eliminate previously-imposed penalties from aging?

I assume the temporary hit points from passenger fusion remain until they're lost in combat. Is this the case? It seems a bit strange, since I can't think of any instances where temporary hit points don't age off. That's what makes them temporary, after all!

The passenger feat mechanic is a little confusing, but not too bad. It seems fairly balanced too, though a lot of the penalties associated with it are difficult to assess since they're heavily role-play based. IMO that's OK; this is a game that should be able to accommodate that sort of thing to some extent. It's just something that DMs will have to be aware of.

In general, I think that a lot of the benefits of passenger feats are too small, particularly the skill bonuses granted. Not only does the character have to shoulder significant RP burdens to maintain the feats, but they have to keep taking more passenger feats in order to realize the most benefits. The characters who would most benefit from these feats (skillful characters) are already extremely feat-strapped and have better things to do with their feats in many cases. Maybe following the model of Knowledgeable Passenger and granting the skills as class skills would help. At least, it would make the feats more attractive to fighters and the like for whom feats are easier to come by than new class skills. But the bonuses by themselves seem underwhelming. Shadow Reflexes and Shadow Fortitude are good, but all the others could use a bit of a boost, IMO.

Hope that helps! Nice class so far!

[ErrantX]

So, how much is our deadline extended by because of the shutdown?

Extended by the 8 days we were down, so contest runs through the 10th of May, and Voting til the 20th.

-X

[Temotei]

Extended by the 8 days we were down, so contest runs through the 10th of May, and Voting til the 20th.

-X

I think it was only down for six days, but I'll accept the extra two days. :smalltongue:

[sirpercival]

Okie dokie, Candysmith is completely done! (Unless I decide/have time to add a Glass Elevator legacy weapon. But that may come after the contest is finished.)

Anyone wanna take a look, give me some feedback?

[Glimbur]

Candysmith PEACH!

Easiest entry is as a homebrew class. Ok. Entry after level 5, max out two skills (bluff is cross-class) and 5 ranks into a flavor skill. Haha, flavor. Except... the class doesn't seem to give Craft homunculus, and Craft Construct is very difficult to get at level 5. So easiest entry is Artificer 4/Warcrafter 3ish. Probably not as intended.

Skill list looks like Artificer. Disable Device and Open Lock don't seem very Wonka. Martial Lore doesn't fit my view of Wonka but this is an initiator so it's necessary. Not a big deal.

Maneuvers are maneuvers.

Chocolatecraft skill bonus should probably be typed. Competence?

Tighten up the language on Oompa Loompa, at present it reads as though you cannot replace fallen Oompas which is probably not as intended. Try "At first level you may have one Oompa Loompa in your service, you may have an additional Oompa Loompa in your service at the same time for every odd-numbered level afterward (so you get 2 at 3rd level, 3 at 5th level, and so on).

Inventing Room is ok. Half progression of craft reserve hurts but is survivable.

Whangdoodle is ok. It pretty much takes an action in combat because it's such a short-term buff, and +2*ML str should be fine balance-wise.

Loompasong is not as good as an equivalent-level bard, which is probably for the best.

Hornswoggler is good. Really good. Maybe it should be a swift action.

Everything is Eatable is workable. I'd find a way to explain it without referencing Dispel Magic, or make clear that you don't have a cap of +10 to your dispel check like Dispel Magic does.

Slugworth is niche but powerful. I think you forgot to specify the DC of the initator level check; I'd assume 11+IL of the Candysmith.

Improved Loomapsong: how does Suggestion work without Fascinate?

Snozzwanger is a very big bonus. +8-10 to hit is a large bonus.

Vermicious Knid is ok.

Candyman Can is too vague. The note about the substance being chocolate makes it much more confusing; can I have a lava field around me or is it a (less damaging) chocolate field? If I make a stone wall and they fail the will save, does it take damage like chocolate or like stone?

The class abilities don't seem very chocolatier, or very Wonka. Yes, they're named after critters that Wonka talked about, but the effects are rather arbitrary and Willy (or Charlie) wouldn't imitate the Vermicious Knid. The maneuvers are much more on-theme. It's hard to make too much stuff that all hangs together, but I'm going to endorse a drastic re-write of the class. Sorry. To me, Wonka is about being mysterious, having a plan, seeing to the heart of people, letting them make their own mistakes, and other social skills/tricks/abilities/etc. Hope this helps!

[sirpercival]

Candysmith PEACH! Sweet, thanks!


Easiest entry is as a homebrew class. Ok. Entry after level 5, max out two skills (bluff is cross-class) and 5 ranks into a flavor skill. Haha, flavor. Except... the class doesn't seem to give Craft homunculus, and Craft Construct is very difficult to get at level 5. So easiest entry is Artificer 4/Warcrafter 3ish. Probably not as intended. Actually Warcrafter 6 is the easiest entry (you get CMA&A at 6, can pick up Craft Construct as your L6 feat). Also, the "flavor skill" is used a lot in Glass Elevator, so it's not as flavory as all that...


Skill list looks like Artificer. Disable Device and Open Lock don't seem very Wonka. Martial Lore doesn't fit my view of Wonka but this is an initiator so it's necessary. Not a big deal. Warcrafter skill list, those two were included to keep consistent.


Maneuvers are maneuvers.

Chocolatecraft skill bonus should probably be typed. Competence? Damn, why do I keep forgetting to make my bonuses typed? Lol. Competence runs into issues with stacking with, forex, items... but I think you may be right about it making the most sense. I'll fix.


Tighten up the language on Oompa Loompa, at present it reads as though you cannot replace fallen Oompas which is probably not as intended. Try "At first level you may have one Oompa Loompa in your service, you may have an additional Oompa Loompa in your service at the same time for every odd-numbered level afterward (so you get 2 at 3rd level, 3 at 5th level, and so on). Ah, excellent, thank you.


Inventing Room is ok. Half progression of craft reserve hurts but is survivable.

Whangdoodle is ok. It pretty much takes an action in combat because it's such a short-term buff, and +2*ML str should be fine balance-wise.

Loompasong is not as good as an equivalent-level bard, which is probably for the best.

Hornswoggler is good. Really good. Maybe it should be a swift action. Hm. Possibly, I shall cogitate.


Everything is Eatable is workable. I'd find a way to explain it without referencing Dispel Magic, or make clear that you don't have a cap of +10 to your dispel check like Dispel Magic does. Yeah, I struggled with the wording for this one, I'll see if I can tighten it up.


Slugworth is niche but powerful. I think you forgot to specify the DC of the initator level check; I'd assume 11+IL of the Candysmith.

Improved Loomapsong: how does Suggestion work without Fascinate? Welp. I forgot to add Fascinate to the Loompasong list, so there we go. In other news, has anyone else noticed how hard it is to type fascinate correctly the first time?


Snozzwanger is a very big bonus. +8-10 to hit is a large bonus. OK, I'll halve the bonus. Copacetic?


Vermicious Knid is ok.

Candyman Can is too vague. The note about the substance being chocolate makes it much more confusing; can I have a lava field around me or is it a (less damaging) chocolate field? If I make a stone wall and they fail the will save, does it take damage like chocolate or like stone? OK, I'll take another look at wording -- this is another one I struggled with.


The class abilities don't seem very chocolatier, or very Wonka. Yes, they're named after critters that Wonka talked about, but the effects are rather arbitrary and Willy (or Charlie) wouldn't imitate the Vermicious Knid. The maneuvers are much more on-theme. It's hard to make too much stuff that all hangs together, but I'm going to endorse a drastic re-write of the class. Sorry. To me, Wonka is about being mysterious, having a plan, seeing to the heart of people, letting them make their own mistakes, and other social skills/tricks/abilities/etc. Hope this helps!

Yeah... I ran into the problem that most of the candy-related stuff I came up with went into Glass Elevator, and I didn't have as much left to reference in the class itself. I may scrap the monster-related ones for things like Wonkavite & Vitawonk, if I have time to do so before the closing.

[Tragak]

When does the voting thread come up?

[ErrantX]

Gonna try to get a voting thread up tomorrow. Tired now. Sleep now.

-X

[malonkey1]

Wait, as in 5/14 tomorrow, or 5/13 "I forgot it was past midnight" tomorrow?

[sirpercival]

I guess we'll find out when he posts it :smallbiggrin:

[ErrantX]

Voting Thread is Up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283391)

New contest in a little while, but I want to give you a hint to get guessing on / starting formulating ideas on. "Duct Tape"

-X

[malonkey1]

...Macguyver? Maybe Mythbusters?

[Ra_Va]

Redneck versions of Frankenstein?

[ErrantX]

The winner and Errant's Pick of PrC Contest XL: Based on a Best Seller is... Mephibosheth and his Vessel of the Ancient Gods! Congrats, Meph!


Alright, the answer to the mystery of duct tape is...

Contest XLI: Hybrid Theory IV! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284580)


We usually get a lot of good entries from these ones, so I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

-X

[sirpercival]

Haha, this is more than half of the PrCs that I write! Would it be wrong to do one of the prcs that's already on my to-do list?? Hm.... ;)

[malonkey1]

Wow, glad I placed in this! I didn't expect to get as many votes as I did!

[Kazyan]

So, one of the classes I want to use is apparently very common for Hybrid Theory, and the other hasn't been used before.

Sure, let's do this!

[malonkey1]

I Wonder how frequently Warlocks get used in these...

[Kazyan]

Frequently. I wasn't counting, but there were a bunch when I went through the old Hybrid Theories. And, er, I'm doing a Warlock/Scout when I get to my home computer.

[sirpercival]

I have lots of homebrew base classes... I'm probably going to use one or two of them.

Hey ErrantX, is Astronomer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9313.0) ok to hybridize with?

[ErrantX]

I have lots of homebrew base classes... I'm probably going to use one or two of them.

Hey ErrantX, is Astronomer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9313.0) ok to hybridize with?

Sure, sure to link relevant things. I am fine with it.

-X

[Amechra]

Alright, I take it another Warlock entry is acceptable from me?

I haven't lost a single competition where I entered a Warlock theurge... however, that was before a bunch of the recent "big boys" joined, so we shall see.

(My Warlocks bring all the boys to the yard.)

[malonkey1]

Fine, well I'm doing Warlock/Martial Adept.

[sirpercival]

I'm probably doing an Astronomer/Binder hybrid. Assuming I have time to enter at all...

[Kazyan]

Warlock party! Bring your own eldritch!

[necroon]

Found where all the cool kids hang out! :smallsmile:
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with a Wizard / Monk prestige class (As long as there are no objections, of course :smalleek:)

[Tesla]

Does it have to be a dual progression class, or could it be just a multiple progression class? I ask because I have an idea that would require three to five different classes being progressed.

Either way, best of luck everyone.

[ErrantX]

Does it have to be a dual progression class, or could it be just a multiple progression class? I ask because I have an idea that would require three to five different classes being progressed.

Either way, best of luck everyone.

Hybrid theory is exactly this: Take -TWO- (2) classes and find a couple of abilities in each, find ways to make new abilities by combining them (such as a rogue's sneak attack and a ranger's Favored Enemy to get get something like Surprise Attack that does other stuff or a way to pair together a monk's stunning fists to apply metamagics for a sorcerer) and progress abilities from both classes. Check out examples in past contests as well. 3-5 classes being progressed is either going to be a headache or a over powered and doesn't fit the rules of the contest either.

-X

[Tesla]

I wanted to check since I had seen people comment about making triple progression classes without a ruling having been made in my search. Thank you very much for the quick reply.

[Amechra]

Oy vey, is everyone doing Warlock or Monk?

Well, I'm using my "homestyle" Monk, so there is that.

Can anyone spare a PEACH of the Immaculate Master, as it stands?

[inuyasha]

Im going to make...the Phantasmal Berserker

[JoshuaZ]

Yay. I love hybrids. I have a few ideas for this one. Right now I'm leaning towards a Shadowcaster/Binder class.

[MoleMage]

Does Weapon Specialization (though being a feat) count as a Fighter class feature since it requires Fighter levels?

[Kazyan]

Oy vey, is everyone doing Warlock or Monk?

Well, I'm using my "homestyle" Monk, so there is that.

*grumble grumble* If any other class was based so heavily on thrown-ish weapons as the Warlock (eldritch blast), I would swap it in. But you're just gonna have to share, unless I find a better idea.

[malonkey1]

Found where all the cool kids hang out! :smallsmile:
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with a Wizard / Monk prestige class (As long as there are no objections, of course :smalleek:)

Sounds good. If I were you, I'd try granting new uses for stunning fist/Ki Pool.

[Eurus]

Hmm. What to do, what to do... I feel like a Spellthief hybrid would be interesting. I'm just not entirely sure which direction I want to go with it. A Spellthief/Ranger "mage hunter" (or angel hunter, or dragon hunter...) who specializes in stalking you and killing you with your own spells? A Spellthief/Paladin who turns evil magic (or magic in general) against its abusers? A Spellthief/Shadowcaster who doesn't merely steal magic, but the very shadow it casts?

[ErrantX]

Im going to make...the Phantasmal Berserker

I am intrigued. Make it happen!


Yay. I love hybrids. I have a few ideas for this one. Right now I'm leaning towards a Shadowcaster/Binder class.

I love both of those classes, especially Mouseferatu's fix for Shadowcasters. LOVE BINDERS!


Does Weapon Specialization (though being a feat) count as a Fighter class feature since it requires Fighter levels?

Yes that counts!


Hmm. What to do, what to do... I feel like a Spellthief hybrid would be interesting. I'm just not entirely sure which direction I want to go with it. A Spellthief/Ranger "mage hunter" (or angel hunter, or dragon hunter...) who specializes in stalking you and killing you with your own spells? A Spellthief/Paladin who turns evil magic (or magic in general) against its abusers? A Spellthief/Shadowcaster who doesn't merely steal magic, but the very shadow it casts?

I like all of these ideas, honestly. Any of those are perfect.

-X

[PairO'Dice Lost]

If I end up having time for this contest, I'm thinking of making a truenamer/samurai hybrid themed around kiai, just for kicks. No idea yet how I'll make it not utterly suck, but the idea is just so tempting.

[Mephibosheth]

Hmm. I haven't participated in a hybrid theory contest yet. If I get a chance, I'm definitely submitting something for this one. I'm thinking spirit shaman/totemist. Spirit shaman entry, but requiring the Shape Soulmeld feat and granting limited meldshaping progression. Interesting?

[sirpercival]

Requiring Shape Soulmeld makes it less connected to Totemist, but otherwise I'm in favor of that.

My idea is definitely taking shape as an Astronomer/Binder who binds Constellations.

[FireInTheSky]

Kazyan: Instead of Scout, you could maybe use Sniper (mmx) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2759.0).

[necroon]

Sounds good. If I were you, I'd try granting new uses for stunning fist/Ki Pool.

Thank you for the guidance!
I'll try and think of something for stunning fist. I always forget about it:smalltongue:

[Hyooz]

I'll be joining the Warlock party in a sort of sideways way by instead using the Dragonfire Adept! It's... pretty much a warlock.

Trying to decide what I'll be combining it with, however. Current frontrunners are Shadowcaster and Swordsage.

[malonkey1]

I'll be joining the Warlock party in a sort of sideways way by instead using the Dragonfire Adept! It's... pretty much a warlock.

While I strongly disagree, I look forward to what you give us!


Trying to decide what I'll be combining it with, however. Current frontrunners are Shadowcaster and Swordsage.

I actually did a DFA/Shadowcaster mix centered around emulating Shadow Dragons.

[Glimbur]

Through the power of random chance, I was guided to Favored Soul crossed with Fighter. I'm curious to see how I can make this not a Paladin.

[ErrantX]

Through the power of random chance, I was guided to Favored Soul crossed with Fighter. I'm curious to see how I can make this not a Paladin.

There is a ton you could do with that, and I look forward to what you produce. The best part of this is that you could make a (un)holy warrior type that could fit any religion or one specific set of gods, etc.

-X

[inuyasha]

Through the power of random chance, I was guided to Favored Soul crossed with Fighter. I'm curious to see how I can make this not a Paladin.

first thing that came to mind for me was a chosen of thor, go ahead and use the idea if you want :)

[malonkey1]

Well, I finished my class. Now let me soak my hand in liquid nitrogen, as ice bags will simply not be cold enough. PEACHes welcome.

[Techwarrior]

You have liquid nitrogen on hand?!

[malonkey1]

You have liquid nitrogen on hand?!

Of course. You just take nitrogen, and put it in the microwave until it melts!

[necroon]

Okay... I think the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell is done.
PEACH's are welcome and muchly appreciated! :smallsmile:

[malonkey1]

{Medium BAB, Good Will}

The BAB makes sense, but I feel like they should keep three good saves from Monk. They haven't stopped doing their perfection of self thing, they just do it in a different way.



Weapon Proficiencies: Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spells gain no proficiency with any weapons, armor, or shields.

Good.


Spells per Day/Spells Known: A Disciple of the Thousand Petaled Spell gains new spells per day and spells known at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 as if he had gained a level of whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast prepared arcane spells from before he added the prestige class.
If a character has more than one spellcasting class in which he could cast prepared arcane spells before he became a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled spell, the player must decide which class to assign each odd level of Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell to for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Considering the goodies this class gets, half-caster seems valid.


On the Body - In the Soul (Su): The first lesson learned by a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell is that their own body makes for the best vessel of their arcane prowess. At first level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell may start scribing his spells onto his skin. Different parts of his body can hold a different number of spell levels as detailed below.
Scribing a spell upon ones skin follows the same rules as writing into ones spellbook. The obvious advantage is that it is harder to have your skin taken from you then your spellbook.
Another spellcaster may identify the spells scribed upon your skin by making a Spellcheck check DC 15 + The level of the spell they are identifying. If there are multiple spells inscribed on a certain part of the body they learn the highest unidentified spell allowed by their spellcraft check. Multiple Spellcraft checks allow for additional spells to be identified as long as the DC is met.
Spells cannot be scribed onto the body with Metamagic Feats applied to them.
Spells inscribed on the Disciples body through "On The Body-In the Soul" are considered to be on the character's spell list.
If a spell scribed on the body is prepared for the day the tattoo glows (or pulses, resonates, seethes, ect.).
The same spell could be selected to be prepared multiple times however it can only be prepared from the tattoo once (further prepared iterations of the spell would need to be prepared by the Disciple through other methods like from his spellbook, for example).

{table=head]Body Part|Total Spell Levels
Head| 5 |
Chest/Back | 15 |
Arms/Hands | 7 |
Legs/Feet | 10 |
[/table]

Seems good. Would a Witch be able to prepare in this way without her familiar? And does any given spell have to be scribed all in one place? (I want to scribe wish. Can I scribe 3 level's worth on my arms, 2 on my feet, 1 on my head, and 3 on by chest?)


Ki-Pool (Arcane): Starting at First Level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell learns new uses for his Ki-Pool. When casting a spell he may spend Ki-points to increase his attack roll or the save DC of a spell he is casting by an equal amount.

Seems good. Balanced by MAD and caster level loss.


Monk Abilities: A Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell's class levels stack with his Monk levels for determining his unarmed damage, AC bonus, Ki-Pool, Attacks from Flurry of Blows, and unarmored speed bonus.

Seems fine. Standard stuff.


Arcane Blows(Su): At 1st level, whenever a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell casts a spell with a range of “touch” from his spell list (regardless of whether or not it is inscribed on his skin), he can deliver the spell through an unarmed strike as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell can make one free melee attack with his unarmed strike (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. This attack uses the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell's Unarmed Strike's critical threat range but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the unarmed strike uses its own critical modifier.

Hm. This is an interesting ability, and it matches flavor just fine. Could this be used in conjunction with Stunning Fist and similar abilities?


Arcane Realization: At 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell learns a powerful technique involving the manipulation of their arcane energies called an Arcane Realization (chosen from the list in the following post). Each Arcane Realization may be selected only once.

I'll PEACH these in another post.


Arcane Attuning(Su): All living things channel a mystical energy. Some refer to this as Ki or Chi. Regardless of what you call it this energy creates a special resonance with the Magical Energies of the Universe: For those who know how to channel it properly. Whenever a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell strikes a foe he sets up a resonance between his foe and himself. Every time a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell strikes a foe with an Unarmed Strike he gains a cumulative bonus to attack rolls, checks to overcome spell resistance, Saving Throw DC's, and damage rolls with the next spell he casts at the target. These bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom Modifier and may never equate to a bonus greater than the max number of Ki-Points the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell's Ki pool may hold.
If the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell attacks a foe other than his initial target the bonuses against the first target are lost.
If a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell casts a spell that targets multiple creatures at once the bonuses apply only to the creature that had been struck by the Unarmed Strikes.
Whenever the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell casts a spell with a target other than (Self) any bonuses from Arcane Attuning are reset.

If a target is hit by Stunning fist and fails it's save it counts as having been hit three times for the purposes of Arcane Attuning. If the target passes it's save it counts as not having been struck for the purposes of Arcane Attuning.

Well. That's pretty cool. It'd be awesome alongside flurry of blows.


Flurry of Magic (Su): Starting at 5th level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell learns to better blend his spellcasting with his martial prowess. Whenever a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell uses his Flurry of Blows class feature he may include a singe spell with a range of (Touch) in addition to one of his Unarmed Strikes. The spell being cast must be declared before the first attack roll from Flurry of Blows is made. This attack is not resolved as a touch attack. If the attack hits the target suffers Unarmed Strike Damage as well as the effects of the spell as if the spell had been cast upon them. The target makes any saves required by the spell as it would normally be required to do so.
If the attack misses the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell may "Hold the Charge" and attempt to hit with the next attack generated by Flurry of Blows.


That's a neat ability. I see you took a small tip from the Magus with that one.


Extension of Self (Su): To be one with the Universe is to be one with oneself. Starting at 5th level whenever a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell makes an Unarmed Strike against a foe (attacking your allies is not zen) he may cast any spell with a range of (Self) as a free action. A Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell may not cast more than one spell a round using Extension of Self.

I would say this might be somewhat overpowered. Perhaps require a ki point cost to do so?


Meta-Ki: At 7th level the boundaries between magical energies and Ki begin to blur even more. Whenever a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell of 7th level or higher casts a spell scribed upon his skin he may apply a single Metamagic feat he knows to the spell by spending a number of Ki-Points equal to the number of levels the Metamagic Feat would increase the spell level by. This does not increase the casting time of the spell nor does it include alterations Metamagic feat or spell that would change how many spell levels the Metamagic feat would increase the spell by (for example: Arcane Thesis or Signature Spell).

That's what I'm talkin' about! I love this. If not for that last clause, this'd be overpowered. It's still certainly potent.


Channel Self (Su): To know oneself is very useful but you will often find that those around you are not entitled to such a grand understanding of themselves - or you, for that matter. Starting at 7th level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell may end any spell affecting him with a range of (Personal) as an immediate action to apply it's affects to one other creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart. Those creatures are affected by the spell for a duration equal to 1/2 the remaining duration of the spell effect. For example Hurundi (a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell) has a Shield spell cast upon himself. His ally Fred the Fighter has a Magic Missile cast upon him - Oh No! As high level adventurers are deathly frightened of magic missiles Hurundi decides to end the Shield effect he has cast on himself to apply it's affects to Fred The Fighter - Saving him from the terrors of the deadly spell!

Interesting ability, and it injects a healthy dose of team-playing into the class.


Arcane Enlightenment: At 9th level the Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell is blessed with a grand understanding of the magical energies that make-up the universe. He may cast any touch spell he knows as a swift action. In addition he is treated as an Outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk's creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type. Furthermore a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell gains spell resistance equal to his level + 15. He may raise and lower his spell resistance as a free action. If he already has spell resistance from another class he instead increases that spell resistance by 5.

Again, might need a ki cost here. Other than that, it's not bad.


Perfect Arcane Realization: Upon reaching 10th level a Disciple of the Thousand-Petaled Spell chooses a single Perfect Arcane Realization. This represents the apex of his physical, mental, magical, and spiritual progress. Again, will lok at in another post.

[Kazyan]

*scrap scrap scrap* It's just not...awesome, you know?

I'll do something with a Lurk instead. That class gets mentioned on these boards about once every never. And staple it to Knight.

Watch me flounder to come up with something!

[necroon]

YAAAAAY My first Peach!


The BAB makes sense, but I feel like they should keep three good saves from Monk. They haven't stopped doing their perfection of self thing, they just do it in a different way.

I was on the fence about the saves but I agree.




Seems good. Would a Witch be able to prepare in this way without her familiar? And does any given spell have to be scribed all in one place? (I want to scribe wish. Can I scribe 3 level's worth on my arms, 2 on my feet, 1 on my head, and 3 on by chest?)

Yes to the former: It was intended to allow for a which without her familiar or a wizard without his spellbook to prepare the spells from their tattoos.
To the latter: No- the intent was that the spell had to fit in order to be scribed. I will clarify. Do you think allowing the tattoo to be scribed across to different parts of the body would create a balance issue? I'm not seeing any problems with it besides book-keeping in relation to some of the Arcane Realizations...


Seems good. Balanced by MAD and caster level loss.
Thank you~


Hm. This is an interesting ability, and it matches flavor just fine. Could this be used in conjunction with Stunning Fist and similar abilities?
I don't see why not - Preventing such was not intended. I will clarify.



I'll PEACH these in another post.
Muchly appreciated~



Well. That's pretty cool. It'd be awesome alongside flurry of blows.

Thank you!


That's a neat ability. I see you took a small tip from the Magus with that one.
I do love me some Magus



I would say this might be somewhat overpowered. Perhaps require a ki point cost to do so?
That sounds good to me.



That's what I'm talkin' about! I love this. If not for that last clause, this'd be overpowered. It's still certainly potent.
Your initial suggestion sparked that one.


Again, might need a ki cost here. Other than that, it's not bad.
That sounds fair to me.


Again, will lok at in another post.

Thank you!
And thank you very much for your time: I really appreciate it!

[malonkey1]

Well, looking at the realizations, I see no issues. I can't help but imagine the Thousand-Petal Spell as the Wuxi Finger Hold (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=31P4DgkW9Ns#t=59s). Perhaps you may want to add a DM Approval clause for preparing Cleric spells with Enlightened Spellcasting.

[necroon]

Well, looking at the realizations, I see no issues.
Thank you for looking them over.

I can't help but imagine the Thousand-Petal Spell as the Wuxi Finger Hold (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=31P4DgkW9Ns#t=59s).
Ha... haha.... I have umm... no idea what yout talking about.... ha... :smallwink:
I've been on a big wuxia kick lately :smallsmile:


Perhaps you may want to add a DM Approval clause for preparing Cleric spells with Enlightened Spellcasting.
I like that - In it goes!

[malonkey1]

Thank you for looking them over.

Ha... haha.... I have umm... no idea what yout talking about.... ha... :smallwink:
I've been on a big wuxia kick lately :smallsmile:


I like that - In it goes!

Kung Fu Panda. Hilarious Jack Black movie about an obese Panda who becomes a Kung Fu warrior.

[Xallace]

Originally I was thinking a Crusader + Binder who binds celestials, but that might work better as a pact-magic base class. I feel like barbarian + wilder has been done to death, but maybe I could put a new spin on it. Bard + Dread Necromancer or Bard + ToB could be fun (wailing banshee or dirgesinger reboot for the former, either dance-combat or sword-singer for the latter), but so could Factotum + Warblade or Wilder + Marshal.

I already used Barbarian + Truenamer in a contest, sadly. :smalltongue: Even if I wasn't happy with it.

[Ra_Va]

I've recently more or less done this, I'll try to ductape, a mage with something when I have more energy to think.

[Techwarrior]

I'll probably take one of the multiclass feats to where it should have gone.

[ErrantX]

I'll probably take one of the multiclass feats to where it should have gone.

I support this. That's a great way to do this contest.

-X

[Pyromancer999]

I've just put up my entry, the Curse Tamer, which is a Harrowed/Malefactor PrC, that works on taming the Monster Within.

So, any PEACHes or comments would be helpful and immensely appreciated, as well as opinions on it in general.

[Mephibosheth]

So, the Midnight Shaman is coming along nicely. But can anyone help me come up with a better name for the Pierce Spirit Defense ability? Basically, it lets a Midnight Shaman's natural attacks ignore some of a spirit creature's damage reduction. I can't for the life of me think of a better name...

[sirpercival]

ErrantX, new plan -- I'd like to write a bard/rituals (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253475) prc called the Glyphchanter. The only issue is that I said in the Rituals thread that I was going to do so, though at the time I had no idea what I was going to do for the class other than the name. Is that ok?

[Zelkon]

So, I'm thinking 'bout a divine caster/psion mix.
Also, fifty pages? I think it's time to go to a new thread.

[malonkey1]

So, I'm thinking 'bout a divine caster/psion mix.
Also, fifty pages? I think it's time to go to a new thread.

Hm...Could be interesting...Augmenting/Power-Point casting divine spells, perhaps?

[ErrantX]

So, the Midnight Shaman is coming along nicely. But can anyone help me come up with a better name for the Pierce Spirit Defense ability? Basically, it lets a Midnight Shaman's natural attacks ignore some of a spirit creature's damage reduction. I can't for the life of me think of a better name...

Spirit Rending/Render, Rip the Ethereal Form, Astral Reaver, etc


ErrantX, new plan -- I'd like to write a bard/rituals (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253475) prc called the Glyphchanter. The only issue is that I said in the Rituals thread that I was going to do so, though at the time I had no idea what I was going to do for the class other than the name. Is that ok?

I like it. Do it, that's fine.


So, I'm thinking 'bout a divine caster/psion mix.
Also, fifty pages? I think it's time to go to a new thread.

Divine psions are neat, I'm down to see what you come up with. Also, yes, definitely. Forthcoming before I get a tap on the shoulder.

-X

[ErrantX]

New chat thread here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285092) Carry on there.

-X