PDA

View Full Version : GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6

ErrantX
2011-07-16, 09:42 AM
The old (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5965327) chat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142083) threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167302) were getting crazy big, so we're starting a new one!

Current Contest is: Contest XLI: Hybrid Theory IV! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284580)

Past Contests:
Contest XL: Based on a Bestseller! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278589)
Contest XXXIX: Villainy and Evil! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273958)
Contest XXXVIII: Chaos is as Chaos... Oh look, shiny! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268025)
Contest XXXVII: Be Good for Goodness Sake! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263869)
Contest XXXVI: Traditionally Speaking! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260445)
Contest XXXV: The Last Harvest! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256751)
Contest XXXIV: Items of Power! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253310)
Contest XXXIII: Pet Me! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249689)
Contest XXXII: Hybrid Theory III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229089)
Contest XXXI: Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey... Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221566)
Contest XXX: Into the Light (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212998)
Contest XXIX: Guts, Gears, and Glory! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208114)
Contest XXVIII: My Life in Runes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203247)
Contest XXVII: Epically Destined (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197033)
Contest XXVI: Eastern Exposure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190418)
Contest XXV: It's a Race Thing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185378)
Contest XXIV: Good Will Towards Men (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179661)
Contest XXIII: Hybrid Theory II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173986)
Contest XXII: Darkness on the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168897)
Contest XXI: It's Only Natural (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163610)
Contest XX: In the Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157490)
Contest XIX: Power is a Gish best served Bold! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152106)
Contest XVIII: Power Corrupts! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147394)
Contest XVII: Mono e Mono (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142095)
Contest XVI: Live and Die by the Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136489)
Contest XV: Where The Wyld Things Are (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131375)
Contest XIV: Hybrid Theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126592)
Contest XIII: Music and Lyrics (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121195)
Contest XII: Can we Rebuild it? Yes we can! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116389)
Contest XI: Fallen, yet not Forgotten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111855)
Contest X: Draw, Partner! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108730)
Contest IX: It's Morphin' Time! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105490)
Contest VIII: Bow down to my Fist! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101782)
Contest VII: It's Elementary! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98294)
Contest VI: The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95505)
Contest V: Champion of the Common Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92606)
Contest IV: My Faith is Unswerving (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89760)
Contest III: We Band of Brothers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86443)
Contest II: Soul Power! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84454&highlight=Contest)
Contest I: Test My Sword, Meet Your End (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81990&highlight=Contest)

Picture Contests (by the Witchking)
Current Contest: TBA
Worth a Thousand Words II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125849)
Worth a Thousand Words 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6512299) - The Witchlamp by TSED

-X

ErrantX
2011-07-16, 09:43 AM
Reserved for potential expansion.

ErrantX
2011-07-16, 10:04 AM
My Life in Runes voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207614) is up!

-X

Hyooz
2011-07-16, 11:52 PM
Woo, marking the new chat thread for future finding convenience.

Also, first?

Glimbur
2011-07-17, 12:04 AM
I think this is where we shout about themes. It could be interesting to see a "one spell wonder" contest. Or a PrC focused on a specific weapon... though that could be pretty restrictive.

BladeofOblivion
2011-07-17, 03:58 AM
New thread smell. Wonderful. :smallsmile:

NineThePuma
2011-07-17, 05:19 PM
Subscribing~ Hopefully I'll join the next one.

Morph Bark
2011-07-17, 06:04 PM
*takes a big sniff*

Ahh, the smell of newthread.

ErrantX
2011-07-19, 11:11 PM
New contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208114), in honor of our sister contest in the Base Class contest, I like the idea, so we're going to have concurrent themes. Maybe you've entered the base class contest or are working on one? Well, if you are, great! Make a prestige class based on your base class if you'd like! I'm totally okay with that this time.

Otherwise, get brewing!

-X

NineThePuma
2011-07-19, 11:14 PM
D=

Craaaaaap. And I was gonna sit it out... =\


Can we base our work on Homebrew, or must it be officially published stuffs?

ErrantX
2011-07-19, 11:21 PM
D=

Craaaaaap. And I was gonna sit it out... =\


Can we base our work on Homebrew, or must it be officially published stuffs?

Such as? I've allowed it before in the past, just curious.

-X

NineThePuma
2011-07-19, 11:22 PM
I'm not sure if it matches the theme, but I was thinking of a Warforged PrC that was 'inspired' by an Ozodrin to try and alter itself into an eldritch abomination. x3

It's kinda steam-punky in execution (or, rather, feels that way to me what with the Magitek concept of 'modding' yourself) but then I have odd tastes.

ErrantX
2011-07-19, 11:24 PM
I'm not sure if it matches the theme, but I was thinking of a Warforged PrC that was 'inspired' by an Ozodrin to try and alter itself into an eldritch abomination. x3

Build a steam engine and a mess of clockwork into it? Otherwise, I've allowed the Ozodrin before.

-X

NineThePuma
2011-07-19, 11:42 PM
Contest links to the wrong chat thread.

JoshuaZ
2011-07-20, 08:12 AM
Hmm, interesting. Right now, I'm thinking of a PrC that upgrades undead by giving them clockwork components.

Hyooz
2011-07-20, 12:34 PM
This is an interesting theme... troublesome for me at the moment. I usually like to build my stuff to be as setting-independent as possible, (with some exceptions, of course) and knee deep in the "mutable flavor" end of things. This is... tricky to do so with.

I do have an idea I like so far, though.

Things in this world do not happen at random. There is an inner clockwork to everything, ticking along slowly, driving the forces that make up everything. Life, death, and everything in between all happen according to this grand design. There are those with the will and the know-how to create a similar clockwork device - a Simulacrum of the world itself. These inventors become oracles of sorts, interpreting each gear tick and hiss of steam as another event yet to come. These are the Clockwork Seers.

boomwolf
2011-07-20, 03:46 PM
Errant that was such a foolish decision...now whoever is not into steampunk is locked out of BOTH contests...as if being locked from one is not enough...

I mean, how much steampunk CAN you get into DnD with it's rules making anything more mechanically complex then a lock be overly complicated?

I'm out of this one unless a sudden stroke of mechanical wisdom strikes me...

Irony-getting an idea during a rant of the concept being out of your field...

Now just to see if the base class contest will allow the rather odd thing I got planned...(its a race, class, and a bunch of items rolled into one!)

Hyooz
2011-07-20, 04:41 PM
I mean, how much steampunk CAN you get into DnD with it's rules making anything more mechanically complex then a lock be overly complicated?

This is a part of the problem I'm having with concepts. In a standard DnD setting, magic is available, and does what steampunk devices would do just fine. Anyone with the brains to put together a crazy clockwork device could also muddle through spellbook tomes just fine. If I go in assuming low-magic, though, then it doesn't fit into many campaigns other than straight steampunk, since steampunk is pretty out of place anywhere other than, well, steampunk. Even if I just assume a more technologically advanced Faerun or what-have-you, then something closer to Eberron's magitech makes more sense, since magic always does it better.

But I'm going to push through. I like my Clockwork Seers idea, and that kind of character would adapt fairly easily to a lot of settings. Going to keep toying with ideas, though.

GoblinArchmage
2011-07-20, 05:21 PM
I'm thinking of making a joke PrC which includes as many Steampunk stereotypes that I can think of. I was going to do this with the Base Class Contest, but I think it might be easier as a PrC.

BladeofOblivion
2011-07-20, 05:25 PM
Hmm, interesting. Right now, I'm thinking of a PrC that upgrades undead by giving them clockwork components.

YES! JOIN THE GLORY OF PHYREXIA!

http://ertaislament.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/phyrexian_hulk.jpg

ALL WILL BE ONE!


:smalltongue:

ErrantX
2011-07-20, 07:40 PM
Contest links to the wrong chat thread.

Fixed :smallredface:


This is an interesting theme... troublesome for me at the moment. I usually like to build my stuff to be as setting-independent as possible, (with some exceptions, of course) and knee deep in the "mutable flavor" end of things. This is... tricky to do so with.

I do have an idea I like so far, though.

Things in this world do not happen at random. There is an inner clockwork to everything, ticking along slowly, driving the forces that make up everything. Life, death, and everything in between all happen according to this grand design. There are those with the will and the know-how to create a similar clockwork device - a Simulacrum of the world itself. These inventors become oracles of sorts, interpreting each gear tick and hiss of steam as another event yet to come. These are the Clockwork Seers.

I dig the idea, I'm looking forward to seeing the execution of this.


Errant that was such a foolish decision...now whoever is not into steampunk is locked out of BOTH contests...as if being locked from one is not enough...

I mean, how much steampunk CAN you get into DnD with it's rules making anything more mechanically complex then a lock be overly complicated?

I'm out of this one unless a sudden stroke of mechanical wisdom strikes me...

Irony-getting an idea during a rant of the concept being out of your field...

Now just to see if the base class contest will allow the rather odd thing I got planned...(its a race, class, and a bunch of items rolled into one!)

Wow, that's a little... well, much. I'm sorry you don't like steam punk. I have a little list of themes and ideas and steam punk was near the top of it. I saw that the base class one was the steam punk so I thought it would be a good idea. I think calling me foolish for doing so is a little harsh. For what its worth, I'm sorry if you can't come up with a good idea for the contest, but there is always next contest. This one just happened to line up.


I'm thinking of making a joke PrC which includes as many Steampunk stereotypes that I can think of. I was going to do this with the Base Class Contest, but I think it might be easier as a PrC.

I would really appreciate no joke classes; while yes they're funny and all to look at it, I think that it detracts from more serious efforts and I feel that is disrespectful. By all means, make a joke class and post it in the forum, but please don't post it in the contest.


YES! JOIN THE GLORY OF PHYREXIA!

http://ertaislament.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/phyrexian_hulk.jpg

ALL WILL BE ONE!


:smalltongue:

Yes. This. <3 Phyrexia.

-X

Lord_Gareth
2011-07-20, 11:42 PM
This is a part of the problem I'm having with concepts. In a standard DnD setting, magic is available, and does what steampunk devices would do just fine.

Mad. They called me mad, but who's mad now that I'm holding the power? Who's mad now that I am in control? They laughed at me! They jeered and sneered behind their arcane formulae and skin-bound tomes and mocked my tinkerings, but now, now vengeance is mine, for I and I alone have unlocked the ultimate power of invention! Their spells are nothing, nothing, NOTHING! THEY SHALL KNEEL BEFORE THEIR GOD!

JoshuaZ
2011-07-20, 11:45 PM
Btw, the previous voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207614) is still open, not many people have voted, and there's currently a three way tie. So um, yeah, if you are thinking or planning on voting please do so.

C'nor
2011-07-23, 02:53 PM
Hmm. I can't decide if my idea is more suitable for a PrC or a Base Class.

Here's the concept:

Either some of whatever gives the Constructed life bleeds out into the steam cloud, or a ghost inhabits it. Either way, you have something fairly similar: A living cloud of steam that can possess machines.

Any thoughts on which I should submit it to, once it's written up?

ErrantX
2011-07-23, 03:10 PM
Hmm. I can't decide if my idea is more suitable for a PrC or a Base Class.

Here's the concept:

Either some of whatever gives the Constructed life bleeds out into the steam cloud, or a ghost inhabits it. Either way, you have something fairly similar: A living cloud of steam that can possess machines.

Any thoughts on which I should submit it to, once it's written up?

Pretty specific; Prestige Class. Also, awesome idea.

-X

Magicyop
2011-07-29, 07:40 PM
I haven't been able to come up with many ideas of merit for this competition. The few I've had that really get my mind racing are ideas which are really too strange to ever put out there. For both this contest and the base class contest, since I really like the idea of doing a linked class.

My first thought was building a class based around building yourself a suit of steampunk armor which traps you, and being trapped drives you insane: eternal rage. The suit would monitor and control your actions so while you are raging within, you appear normally calm outside, the suit editing out the obscenities and threats that you constantly scream and only leave a halting but perfectly rational speech.

And then I snapped out of it, and said "what?" to myself. I have no idea how to build a steampunk barbarian, but that's not it.

My second thought was a binder who builds constructs and then binds vestiges into them. I still like the idea, to some extent, but I'm not sure how well I could do with a minion based class.

And then I realized why I'm having trouble thinking of ideas for both steampunk contests. It's because steampunk is more a thing, a style of technology, than it is an ability. Any "steampunk class" is one which inherently will either be based around some object, or around the building of such objects. And when I try to build classes, I try to consider unique and interesting abilities that I could build them around, and I'm really drawing a blank here.

So I'm going to continue to ruminate, in the hopes that I come up with some reasonable idea for both this and the base class contest before either deadline comes up. Looking forward to seeing what crazy and awesome ideas everyone else comes up with.

Kellus
2011-07-30, 04:36 AM
My second thought was a binder who builds constructs and then binds vestiges into them. I still like the idea, to some extent, but I'm not sure how well I could do with a minion based class.

Wow, I'm so glad I checked this thread before getting to work. I swear I had the exact same idea! :smalltongue:

Anyway, I'm sure whatever you decide on will be cool. I loved the Auran pirate!

Morph Bark
2011-07-30, 06:51 AM
Hmm. I can't decide if my idea is more suitable for a PrC or a Base Class.

Here's the concept:

Either some of whatever gives the Constructed life bleeds out into the steam cloud, or a ghost inhabits it. Either way, you have something fairly similar: A living cloud of steam that can possess machines.

Any thoughts on which I should submit it to, once it's written up?

I was actually making a class for the base class challenge that constantly exudes steam and uses it for its abilities. :smalltongue: I figure this would make a great fluff-wise combo.

Benly
2011-07-30, 08:54 AM
I'm working on something a little odd, although it's still in preliminary stages. Mephits are involved.

Vaynor
2011-07-31, 10:23 AM
Perfect! I decided to get back into homebrewing and I liked the theme of the base class contest, but my idea was really more suited for a PrC, so this is awesome. I'll get right to work on this when I get home. :smallbiggrin:

Caiphon
2011-07-31, 11:20 AM
Hey guys!
I just got a great idea for this contest, it would be basically someone that builds himself a suit and upgrades himself by adding steampunk parts of outsiders, aberrations, or constructs (I will think of it later).
It would be some sort of incarnum-steampunk-graft, sort of guy.
Anyway, it will be my first contest entry, so what do you think? :smallbiggrin:

Kellus
2011-07-31, 02:18 PM
Hey guys!
I just got a great idea for this contest, it would be basically someone that builds himself a suit and upgrades himself by adding steampunk parts of outsiders, aberrations, or constructs (I will think of it later).
It would be some sort of incarnum-steampunk-graft, sort of guy.
Anyway, it will be my first contest entry, so what do you think? :smallbiggrin:

That sounds like an awesome mix of incarnum, steampunk, and xenoalchemy. I love it! :smallsmile:

Caiphon
2011-07-31, 03:34 PM
That sounds like an awesome mix of incarnum, steampunk, and xenoalchemy. I love it! :smallsmile:

Ok, so... I'm open to suggestions on this, but I'm thinking on making an entire new set of grafts for your xenoalchemist, based on every monster I can find of the aberration, outsider, plant or construct type and make 4 prestige classes, each one focusing on a different type of grafts. I hope I can get this done,
But I'm not going to dissapoint you, you big...giant....crazy....homebrew lord....magical....dinosaur....err.....thing :smalltongue:

Edge
2011-07-31, 06:01 PM
Might just have an idea for this.

What happens when an artificer with no talent for incarnum suffers a horrible tragedy, discovers incarnum can be used to fuel a time machine and decide to go take that essentia from anyone he can?

I'll tell you what happens: mad watchmaking.


Why yes, I have recently started watching Wakfu, what makes you say that?

Kellus
2011-07-31, 06:58 PM
Ok, so... I'm open to suggestions on this, but I'm thinking on making an entire new set of grafts for your xenoalchemist, based on every monster I can find of the aberration, outsider, plant or construct type and make 4 prestige classes, each one focusing on a different type of grafts. I hope I can get this done,
But I'm not going to dissapoint you, you big...giant....crazy....homebrew lord....magical....dinosaur....err.....thing :smalltongue:

I'd stick to one prestige class for the contest, but feel free to use anything in the xenoalchemy material to make this work. It sounds really sweet.

ErrantX
2011-08-03, 09:02 PM
Hope there are entries floating out there. Steam punk sadly doesn't seem to be doing too well in either contests. My entry there is lonely; not many finished other than mine. Kellus, your work here is MASSIVE, that's awesome!

-X

Kellus
2011-08-03, 10:04 PM
Hope there are entries floating out there. Steam punk sadly doesn't seem to be doing too well in either contests. My entry there is lonely; not many finished other than mine. Kellus, your work here is MASSIVE, that's awesome!

-X

Yeah, it's pretty big. I'm working at it in stages, but I should easily be done for the 20th. :smallsmile:

I'll do a full review of the other one probably tomorrow. It's pretty kick-a**!

DeskChairLamp
2011-08-04, 07:37 AM
Posted my (almost complete) entry, the Inevitable Agent.

ErrantX
2011-08-13, 10:49 PM
So who is still writing/working on their next class? I'm curious because we've only got a few entries this time and I'm curious as to why. Obviously, steam punk hasn't proven to be very popular, so howsabout people who have a good idea send me a PM about one contest idea they thing would be cool? Hybrid Theory and Gish went really well, and a couple others as well too. Just looking for hits here, I love seeing our threads being busy busy busy.

-X

Owrtho
2011-08-13, 10:50 PM
Well, Seeing as I was late on the base class contest, I'll try getting necroclock devices (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210375) complete enough to make a PRC for them in time to make it into this contest. Hopefully I'll make it in time.

Owrtho

Fable Wright
2011-08-14, 01:12 AM
I think it may be less the contest idea and more the time of year. It's vacation season, so people generally aren't here, instead doing more interesting things than thinking up PrCs.

zagan
2011-08-14, 03:59 AM
In my case it was a combination of thing, I was really busy with my template project and steampunk didn't really inspire me. Maybe next time.

Kellus
2011-08-14, 04:13 AM
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about this! Still working on the etherjammer, and I'll at least have all the Tome of Magic mysteries finished for the 20th (and as many Descent of Shadows mysteries as I can get to)!

I think it's a combination of vacation and also people splitting their ideas between the base class and prestige class contests. That being said, I like some of the class ideas a lot. The inevitable agent is especially neat, I think my very first prestige class I ever made on the boards was something along the same lines. Inevitables are cool. :smallsmile:

ErrantX
2011-08-14, 09:53 AM
I think it may be less the contest idea and more the time of year. It's vacation season, so people generally aren't here, instead doing more interesting things than thinking up PrCs.

Yeah, you're probably right actually. I didn't really think of that. And that's yet another reason why we keep you :smallbiggrin:

-X

Fizban
2011-08-14, 10:29 AM
Would this be the right place to comment on entries? I'm liking the Spellcore Adept, but it's hard to figure out just how much power it has. If you just count up how much "market value" of items he can create in a day based on the flux points in the table, it's pretty weak, even when effectively doubling them with Flux User. It took me a second read to notice that the class also advances infusions at every level, which means the flux points are more of a bonus instead of the meat of it's power. Then I noticed it could give up infusion slots to get more flux points, but it's hard to tell when and how often it can be done: can a person specialize only in flux and give up all their infusions, or are they limited to giving up one at each class level (or character level)? Once you know the average and upper bounds of the flux points you can figure out exactly what they can do compared to an artificer or another similar homebrew, but it's hard to tell.

I just wanna be able to use golems without burning all my cash or using a 9th level summon spell. Is that too much to ask!? *weeping*

DeskChairLamp
2011-08-15, 10:06 AM
Still working on mine as well. All that's left is to finish the Tools section for the Inevitable Agent.

Pyromancer999
2011-08-15, 10:29 AM
Would this be the right place to comment on entries? I'm liking the Spellcore Adept, but it's hard to figure out just how much power it has. If you just count up how much "market value" of items he can create in a day based on the flux points in the table, it's pretty weak, even when effectively doubling them with Flux User.

It's not measured in market value, its mainly measured by XP, with one Flux Point equaling 10xp for use on the magic item, which, using standard rules, is roughly equivalent to 250gp, although this varies with item. Still, XP cost is what matters with Flux Points, not gold cost.


It took me a second read to notice that the class also advances infusions at every level, which means the flux points are more of a bonus instead of the meat of it's power. Then I noticed it could give up infusion slots to get more flux points, but it's hard to tell when and how often it can be done: can a person specialize only in flux and give up all their infusions, or are they limited to giving up one at each class level (or character level)?

The first. Basically, although it can only be done when gaining a level in Spellcore Adept, an Artificer/Spellcore Adept can sacrifice as many infusion slots as they wish when they do so, and gain an according number of Flux Points instead.


Once you know the average and upper bounds of the flux points you can figure out exactly what they can do compared to an artificer or another similar homebrew, but it's hard to tell.

The capabilities really vary with which spellcores are chosen and how it's used. For example, without any infusion-sacrifices, a Spellcore Adept 10 has 108 Flux Points, meaning they have 1080XP in temporary items. If an Artificer goes all out, enters at 5th level, and converts all of its infusion slots into Flux Points, at 10th level it should have around 288 Flux Points. If taken from 10th level till 20th and all infusion slots are converted, Artificer's Flux Pool ends up being 360 Flux Points.


I just wanna be able to use golems without burning all my cash or using a 9th level summon spell. Is that too much to ask!? *weeping*

Heh. :smallbiggrin: Don't worry. Even without converting Infusion slots into Flux Points, you can still create a Flesh Golem or a few low-cost golems from that Dragon magazine article.

Owrtho
2011-08-15, 09:25 PM
Well, it isn't complete by any means, but I got a start made on my entry. Looking at it, I can't help but feel the class itself is doomed to look rather dull, relying on the character using interesting necroclock devices...

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-16, 07:20 PM
Ok. Main thing I need before I post my PrC now is a name. Although at least in theme it is starting to look very similar to Owrtho's idea. Heck, it even has a template "Clockwork Corpse". Name suggestions are welcome. (As I said on the previous page of the thread the idea is someone who augments undead by adding clockwork components to them.)

Owrtho
2011-08-16, 07:56 PM
Ok. Main thing I need before I post my PrC now is a name. Although at least in theme it is starting to look very similar to Owrtho's idea. Heck, it even has a template "Clockwork Corpse". Name suggestions are welcome. (As I said on the previous page of the thread the idea is someone who augments undead by adding clockwork components to them.)

Huh, in a way it's almost the opposite of my class. It improves the dead with clockwork parts, while mine improves clockwork with dead parts, though it then uses that to improve itself.
For name ideas, possibly something like a corpse winder, referencing how clockwork is generally wound to be powered.

In other news, I updated my entry with an ability to damage ones self with positive or negative energy. I'll note though that's less stupid than it sounds when you realize that necroclock grafts can absorb positive or negative energy damage being dealt to you to make themselves temporarily stronger for the round (the amount they absorb being limited by the amount of undead pieces powered by that energy type).

Feedback on both the class and necroclock devices would be appreciated (though things specific to the devices may be better mentioned in the necroclock devices thread).

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-18, 11:06 PM
Ok. The Necrotic Gearlord is now up. PEACHing is welcome. I'll try tomorrow to peach the other PrCs if I can. (Right now a quick glance through suggest they all look pretty awesome. No obvious issues stand out.)

Owrtho
2011-08-19, 12:56 AM
Ok. The Necrotic Gearlord is now up. PEACHing is welcome. I'll try tomorrow to peach the other PrCs if I can. (Right now a quick glance through suggest they all look pretty awesome. No obvious issues stand out.)

Well, I took a cursory look at your entry, and likely will look at it more in depth later, but from what I say it looks good.

Anyway, thought I'd see if anyone might have suggestions for a capstone or other abilities for the necroclock knight? I find it somewhat difficult to come up with ones due to most things it does being granted by equipment it uses.

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-19, 07:47 AM
Anyway, thought I'd see if anyone might have suggestions for a capstone or other abilities for the necroclock knight? I find it somewhat difficult to come up with ones due to most things it does being granted by equipment it uses.

Owrtho

An obvious additional ability would be a reduction in the cost for them to make necrolock devices. But since the Necrolock devices don't have their costs yet decided figuring out how much that should be might be tough. A lot of Necrolock devices seem to require animate dead to make. A reasonable ability would be to get a supernatural ability to be treated as being able to cast animate dead for purposes of making devices. Or maybe have a gradual progression to including all the relevant spells (Animate Object, Animate Dead and Gentle Repose)?

As to a capstone- perhaps some sort of benefit that you get from the number of necrolock devices you have? Like maybe get +2 hit points for each? Not sure what the fluff would be for that but you could probably work something out.



.

Owrtho
2011-08-19, 11:25 AM
An obvious additional ability would be a reduction in the cost for them to make necrolock devices. But since the Necrolock devices don't have their costs yet decided figuring out how much that should be might be tough. A lot of Necrolock devices seem to require animate dead to make. A reasonable ability would be to get a supernatural ability to be treated as being able to cast animate dead for purposes of making devices. Or maybe have a gradual progression to including all the relevant spells (Animate Object, Animate Dead and Gentle Repose)?

As to a capstone- perhaps some sort of benefit that you get from the number of necrolock devices you have? Like maybe get +2 hit points for each? Not sure what the fluff would be for that but you could probably work something out.

Well, I'd considered such actions early on when I first started typing the class, but it doesn't actually fit all that well. The necroclock knight is intended to be good at utilizing necroclock devices, and have some ability upgrading them. It is not however intended to actually be able to make them itself. That said, it might be more obvious had I managed to make my entry for the base class contest, which would be focused around making necroclock devices.
Though necroclock knights should perhaps get a bonus on adding and removing necroclock devices.

As for your capstone suggestion while it seems a little weak, it does give me some ideas to fill out the class. It seems a good idea to focus on the durability that might be granted by using necroclock devices.

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-19, 11:59 AM
Ok. Quick evaluations/critiques:

Etherjammer-

Balance looks good
It seems to be a bit stronger than the standard shadowcaster but since the shadowcaster is weak this shouldn't be an issue Getting a large increase in the number of powerpoints but now manifesting is an interesting approach.

Do principles increase your number of bonus feats for a shadowcaster? As written I would think so but this may unintentional. Clarifying this explicitly might be good.

I hope we'll get to see detailed descriptions for the higher level Etherjams. Right now, this looks awesome.

Spellcore Adept-

This seems in some respects to be an artificer on steroids. I'm not sure I understand the mechanical details of the Spellcores well enough to discuss their balance or say anything helpful. They seem to get a lot of options, but they aren't increasing regular spellcasting so this is probably ok for balance.

Inevitable Agent-
The lowest level you can enter the class is 8th level, yes? At that level, getting only 4th level spells at most is a bit underwhelming. And the total number of spells is very low. It might make sense to bump this up
to fifth level, and increase the number of spells on the spell list, possibly adding some more lawfully themed spells. (Maybe the Glyph of Warding line of spells or Order's Wrath? )

Owrtho
2011-08-19, 12:26 PM
Well, added a slew of new abilities to the necroclock knight. It's pretty much complete at this point aside from fine tuning (huh that turns into a bad pun given all the added abilities require that grafts be tuned to work...). Any thoughts?

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-19, 12:36 PM
Well, added a slew of new abilities to the necroclock knight. It's pretty much complete at this point aside from fine tuning (huh that turns into a bad pun given all the added abilities require that grafts be tuned to work...). Any thoughts?

Owrtho

Me likey.

Tuned Survival is a very appropriate capstone. It might make sense for it to be (su) rather than (ex) but that is a minor detail.

There are now two different abilities labeled "Tuned Defence". Is that deliberate?

One other minor issue- since they have abilities that work off of positive and negative energy and some necrolock devices have deathless or undead tissue it might make sense to give them Knowledge(Religion) as a class skill.

Owrtho
2011-08-19, 12:49 PM
Tuned Survival is a very appropriate capstone. It might make sense for it to be (su) rather than (ex) but that is a minor detail.

Well, I figured it's more a mechanical thing than a supernatural one. That said, I could see arguments for either side. Other opinions would be appreciated.


There are now two different abilities labeled "Tuned Defence". Is that deliberate?

That was a typo. I'd initially gone to copy tuned durability down and was going to change it. Then got distracted typing up tuned stability, and forgot about the earlier copy.


One other minor issue- since they have abilities that work off of positive and negative energy and some necrolock devices have deathless or undead tissue it might make sense to give them Knowledge(Religion) as a class skill.

A good point. Particularly as all necroclock devices include a bit of undead or deathless. I forgot about the knowledge (religion) being tied to those things as the setting I've come up with where necroclock exists doesn't really have any religion among the main users of necroclock devices. I actually added knowledge (the planes) due to the fact they have some manipulation of positive and negative energy (and should have knowledge of the appropriate planes to draw on it). Anyway, added that to the skill list.

Owrtho

DeskChairLamp
2011-08-19, 09:34 PM
Inevitable Agent pretty much done. I reduced the entry requirements a bit, should be accessible 6th/7th level. Expanded spell list and added 5th level spells.

Kellus
2011-08-20, 02:05 AM
And finished! The etherjammer is done, just in time. Only the Tome of Magic mystery etherjams for levels 4-9, but still very playable.

I need to go and die now after that, but afterwards I'll put up my detailed thoughts of the other PrCs tomorrow. Good job everybody that finished! :smallsmile:

JoshuaZ
2011-08-20, 09:40 AM
Ok. All done. The only minor issue that I'm thinking of having it lose a caster level on the arcane side at first level and maybe again at 10th. That would help emphasize the steampunk side of things more rather than the magical aspects. But I'm not sure what this would do balance-wise. Thoughts are appreciated.

ErrantX
2011-08-20, 08:47 PM
Last minute fixes oughta get in here soon or else they won't make deadline!

-X

Kellus
2011-08-20, 08:59 PM
Last minute fixes oughta get in here soon or else they won't make deadline!

-X

I took this opportunity to make a small change I'd been waffling on, imposing a limit on the level of etheric principle you can etherjam equal to your class level -1.

JoshuaZ
2011-08-20, 09:12 PM
Augh. Still can't decide if the Gearlord should lose any arcane class levels. Any quick final input before the deadline?

Kellus
2011-08-20, 09:19 PM
Augh. Still can't decide if the Gearlord should lose any arcane class levels. Any quick final input before the deadline?

Don't do it! Theurgic classes are already at a disadvantage, you don't need to punish them even more for it.

Think of it this way: would anyone advocate having a mystic theurge losing even more caster levels, even if they got some sweet class features?

JoshuaZ
2011-08-20, 09:20 PM
Don't do it! Theurgic classes are already at a disadvantage, you don't need to punish them even more for it.

Think of it this way: would anyone advocate having a mystic theurge losing even more caster levels, even if they got some sweet class features?

Ok. Good point. Will leave at full progression.

Owrtho
2011-08-20, 09:38 PM
Well, I can't particularly think of anything off hand to adjust about the necroclock knight. Anyone else have suggestions?

Owrtho

Owrtho
2011-08-23, 12:46 AM
So, I take it the contest is closed to edits and new entries at this point, can we expect a voting thread soon?

Owrtho

ErrantX
2011-08-23, 06:20 AM
So, I take it the contest is closed to edits and new entries at this point, can we expect a voting thread soon?

Owrtho

At some point today, yes, as time allows. Been kinda crazy lately IRL.

-X

ErrantX
2011-08-23, 11:38 PM
Voting thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212804) is up! Hit it up folks!

@Owrtho, you didn't finish all of your fluff, but you did complete a good portion of it, so I'm letting it into the voting because of it. When people don't do any of the fluffing, I sideline 'em but you put forth the effort.

-X

Owrtho
2011-08-24, 12:42 AM
@Owrtho, you didn't finish all of your fluff, but you did complete a good portion of it, so I'm letting it into the voting because of it. When people don't do any of the fluffing, I sideline 'em but you put forth the effort.

Gah, forgot I hadn't gotten those last few sections filled out. Well, they would have been the more difficult ones, given I'm terrible at coming up with notables, and NPC reactions can be heavily reliant on how using necroclock devices is perceived in the setting (if it's generally considered a horrible thing to do, or if it's completely normal and no one would give a second glance to it).

Owrtho

JoshuaZ
2011-08-24, 10:45 PM
Ok. So what is the next contest theme going to be? I hope we'll get more people for the next one. I think that steampunk is tough to do in the standard 3.5 setting which may have contributed to the small number of entries.

C'nor
2011-08-25, 08:47 AM
I know part of the reason I didn't get to it was that other stuff happened. I'm going to do the Ghost in the Machine later though, and anyone who expressed interest in it is welcome to help.

ErrantX
2011-08-25, 10:00 AM
I will try to post the next contest tonight. The theme will be something abstract that you could do a lot with in a variety of ways.

-X

NineThePuma
2011-08-25, 02:35 PM
I kinda want a more simple theme. Something along the lines of "Commander" or something else role oriented.

ErrantX
2011-08-25, 03:55 PM
New contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212998) is up! Please check it out, and please remember to vote for Guts, Gears, and Glory!

-X

Owrtho
2011-08-25, 03:57 PM
Well, I figure I'll ask this even though I don't plan on doing so, but is light specifically referencing to illumination, or could it also be used as 'not heavy'? That said, I may just need to try making an entry based on one of my older works. One for which the title "Into the light" is particularly appropriate.

Owrtho

ErrantX
2011-08-25, 04:29 PM
Well, I figure I'll ask this even though I don't plan on doing so, but is light specifically referencing to illumination, or could it also be used as 'not heavy'? That said, I may just need to try making an entry based on one of my older works. One for which the title "Into the light" is particularly appropriate.

Owrtho

Light as closer to Illumination as opposed to Light as in Not Heavy.

-X

Amechra
2011-08-25, 11:31 PM
So... mine manipulates light by eating it and having his shadow mutate into stuff like an Ozodrin.

That still falls within the purview of this competition, right?

Phosphate
2011-08-26, 05:37 AM
Hello! This is the first time I submit for this, and I have a question for you.

What should I write at Advancement? It's kinda vague right now.

Also making sure my class is in line with the competition guidelines, cause it's not 100% light related.

Xzoltar
2011-08-26, 06:34 AM
Im going to use stuff from : Base Class Challenge - The Light Beckons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8095271) if this is allowed.

I still not sure of what I have in mind but it will involved the Lightbringer and/or The Twillight Caster.

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 06:53 AM
I've been waiting for the thirtieth instance of this contest! Wonder how I could somehow make it both silly and serious and yet awesome on the side.

ErrantX
2011-08-26, 07:08 AM
So... mine manipulates light by eating it and having his shadow mutate into stuff like an Ozodrin.

That still falls within the purview of this competition, right?

Perhaps if they have a source of illumination to devour initially? Or perhaps reverse it and they absorb shadows and darkness to cause themselves to radiate light that they can shape like an Ozodrin (I love that class btw).


Hello! This is the first time I submit for this, and I have a question for you.

What should I write at Advancement? It's kinda vague right now.

Also making sure my class is in line with the competition guidelines, cause it's not 100% light related.

You should write what sort of character role and abilities you'd have playing an Energist. Additionally, if there are spells and feats that would be of benefit to the class (either printed or created by you for this contest) mention them here as well. As far as guidelines, I'd just fluff a few abilities up a little more descriptively (as like you generate radiant light or something) or that they work better in brighter light and don't necessarily work as well in the dark perhaps? Overall I'm good with it as it is, so don't take it as gospel.


Im going to use stuff from : Base Class Challenge - The Light Beckons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8095271) if this is allowed.

I still not sure of what I have in mind but it will involved the Lightbringer and/or The Twillight Caster.

Works for me, I look forward to seeing what you've got.


I've been waiting for the thirtieth instance of this contest! Wonder how I could somehow make it both silly and serious and yet awesome on the side.

Nothin' too silly Morph; joke entries burn my eyes :smalltongue:

-X

C'nor
2011-08-26, 07:45 AM
So, are you going to change your signature so that it links to the current contest?

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 08:58 AM
Nothin' too silly Morph; joke entries burn my eyes :smalltongue:

-X

Oh nonono. I meant moreso applications of light that people might not normally expect, or applications of light that would be unfeasible in the real world. I never intend to go too silly for contest entries, but something more like... like the binder binding the souls of inspiring people from the past rather than vestiges, turning him into a bard or marshal of sorts. Suddenly, the grim and dark witchhunted man becomes a jokester who emboldens his allies!

In this case, I am thinking of doing something with the play on words of light that Owrtho came with earlier, while still using actual light. Of course, that will be only for one particular class feature. :smallwink:

C'nor
2011-08-26, 09:00 AM
Does it have something to do with using the principles that would be employed in solar sails to lift the object?

Phosphate
2011-08-26, 09:30 AM
Ok, thanks for explaining.

It's just that a couple of the fields to fill up seem a bit redundant.

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 09:31 AM
Does it have something to do with using the principles that would be employed in solar sails to lift the object?

No, but in combination with solar sails you could easily turn a ship into a flying ship. :smallamused:

Phosphate
2011-08-26, 09:34 AM
Well, the reason WHY solar sails work is that there's no friction in space. A regular ship is not...airtight, y'know?

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 09:38 AM
Hmmm, are there rules for specific crushing damage or anything like that for being very deep underwater, being slowly crushed by rocks, etcetera?

Phosphate
2011-08-26, 10:02 AM
I believe there are some here. For the avalanche thing at least. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm)

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 11:25 AM
I see. Thanks! That helps me some.

From the picture in my head and the words coming together on mechanics in there, I can already say my entry is going to be awesome. :smallbiggrin:

Phosphate
2011-08-26, 11:32 AM
Now that I rethink it, mine will be kinda broken...not as in unplayable/doesn't work, but as in above Tier 1....ohwell, that happens :D.

Owrtho
2011-08-26, 12:10 PM
Im going to use stuff from : Base Class Challenge - The Light Beckons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8095271) if this is allowed.

I still not sure of what I have in mind but it will involved the Lightbringer and/or The Twillight Caster.

Ah, the twilight caster. Glad to see people are still interested in that. Speaking of which, it has had some updates (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8570158) to it (as has the ethercaster). That said, anyone who has suggestions for mist form (particularly later level ones), feel free to share them with me (preferably in the ethercasting thread which I should likely bump after this post, given updates since it's last post). I've realized I have no real idea how to balance high level spells.

More on topic, I'm planning to make another PRC for my wisp fire guide base class, for those who didn't realize previously. Not sure exactly what the theme will be, possibly I'll do the crystal version I've come up with previously. Well, that or the ozodrin gish I've mused about before. I myself considered basing my entry on the aforementioned base class contest themed around light, though I then I decided if there was one class that deserved to be in a contest called the into the light, it was the wisp fire guide, and subsequently all of its PRCs.

Owrtho

C'nor
2011-08-26, 12:39 PM
And... Now I have even less time to work on an entry for this. Curse you for making a class that's perfect for Fogborn so that I have to write them up!

Xzoltar
2011-08-26, 12:47 PM
If anyone else is interested In the end I won't be able to use The Twillight Cast because there's too much things not completly done (No details on Mysteries and very limited Mist choice) [I was aware of the update, good work, but still unfinish]

I will isntead use a lot of Shadow Mysteries reflavored as Revelation of Light from Mount Celestia. Still the basic idea come from the Twillight Caster.

Owrtho
2011-08-26, 12:55 PM
If anyone else is interested In the end I won't be able to use The Twillight Cast because there's too much things not completly done (No details on Mysteries and very limited Mist choice) [I was aware of the update, good work, but still unfinish]

I will isntead use a lot of Shadow Mysteries reflavored as Revelation of Light from Mount Celestia. Still the basic idea come from the Twillight Caster.

Well, I'd point out mysteries are detailed in Tome of Magic, and as they aren't in the SRD, I was careful to avoid adding too much detail on them (mainly just noting where things deviated). Still there is a number of homebrewed mysteries around the boards. Particularlt noteworthy is the Descent of Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) project. The limited mysteries on the other hand is something I've been trying to correct.
That said, feel free to work on what you'd like. I'm glad you were able to draw inspiration from the twilight caster.

Owrtho

unosarta
2011-08-26, 05:51 PM
The Rainbow Thaumaturgist is done. Yeah. Any critiques would be welcomed and then reciprocated in kind. :smallsmile:
It's been so long since I have done this contest. Too long, really.

Morph Bark
2011-08-26, 07:01 PM
And here I thought you had entered prettymuch every contest ever on this forum! :smalltongue:


Anyhoo, I have taken out the infusions requirement of my entry, as the only reason I added it was a class feature I had in mind, but that class feature would have become too much in combination with infusions and all that I have added so far. I've therefore bumped the spell requirements to 3rd, taken out one additional spellcaster level and added the futurely-finished new class feature at level 6.

unosarta
2011-08-26, 07:19 PM
And here I thought you had entered prettymuch every contest ever on this forum! :smalltongue:


Anyhoo, I have taken out the infusions requirement of my entry, as the only reason I added it was a class feature I had in mind, but that class feature would have become too much in combination with infusions and all that I have added so far. I've therefore bumped the spell requirements to 3rd, taken out one additional spellcaster level and added the futurely-finished new class feature at level 6.

Nah, only seven entries in the Prestige Contest, although I think I have entered most of the other individual contests at least once.

As for the Raysailor of Sol Invictus, the concept looks really cool. I was kind of expecting a Kamina esque "your's is the drill that will pierce the heavens!" quote, but you know, you can't have everything.

Also, how do they use Control Light as a spell-like ability if Control Light is a Psionic power? Just shift it over to being as if it were a spell?

As for the Use Light ability, maybe take a note from the Prismatic line of spells (I made some new ones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10280916&postcount=44), a while ago, that are of a lower level. In fact the whole Rainbow Thaumaturgist is based around using them)? You could poison the targets with Green, deal Cold damage with Blue (it's originally petrification, but that is kind of powerful), maybe a fear effect for Indigo? Regular teleportation could work for Violet. White and Black could be positive and negative energy, respectively.

Fable Wright
2011-08-27, 12:56 AM
Hm... since you said that it has to be illumination-based, does that mean that we can use darkness as a class basis? Driving away the light?

ErrantX
2011-08-27, 02:42 AM
Hm... since you said that it has to be illumination-based, does that mean that we can use darkness as a class basis? Driving away the light?

No. It must directly use light in some fashion, be it literally or figuratively.

-X

Owrtho
2011-08-27, 03:37 AM
No. It must directly use light in some fashion, be it literally or figuratively.

Well, I'm not sure I'll use it, but would someone who uses light to create darker shadows (and in doing so enhances the strength of shadows and darkness) qualify?

Owrtho

Xzoltar
2011-08-27, 07:22 AM
The Dawn Breaker is completed. I will go back to try to correct as much grammer and spelling mistake I may have made. I still need to finish the encounter section and give the stats of the Soldiers of Light (probably warrior level)

Glimbur
2011-08-27, 02:21 PM
I'm working on a thing. It seems like it will have unique abilities, and also combat abilities. I would like to make some overlap between the two, but we'll see.

Amechra
2011-08-27, 04:18 PM
How much would everyone yell at me if I wrote all of the rule text in first person?

Example:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: I gain no new proficiencies, neither with weapons nor with armor.

zagan
2011-08-27, 04:25 PM
How much would everyone yell at me if I wrote all of the rule text in first person?

Example:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: I gain no new proficiencies, neither with weapons nor with armor.

A little unordothox, but as long as it's clear I have no problem with. Why would you want to do that however ?


For my part I want to participate in this one but I can't find any idea that I really like, it's frustrating.

JoshuaZ
2011-08-27, 04:26 PM
How much would everyone yell at me if I wrote all of the rule text in first person?

Example:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: I gain no new proficiencies, neither with weapons nor with armor.

If it is done well I won't mind. Dragoon Wraith did something similar for the Deadwood which got very good reviews.

Amechra
2011-08-27, 04:26 PM
Rainbow Thaumaturge
Concept: Quite nice; I've always liked your prismatic line.

Prereqs: Not too hard; easy access for the aspiring color-obsessed mage.

Skills: Ahem..? I can't say anything, because I don't have mine up yet.

HD: Higher than the usual d4 for caster PrCs, but since you can enter from the Cleric, it would be a step down in that case... besides, it just means an average of +10 HP, which isn't much really.

Reading the Rainbow: Nice. Very flavorful. Only problem I can see is that the Spellcraft boost is untyped; all [Light]-loving Incantatrix's love you now; of course, can't judge from the highest, and all that.

Chromatic Strength: A non-scaling bonus to CL for one school, and a couple spells outside it? I would feel better if 2nd level lost a CL, instead of 3rd; of course, that's actually just because I LOVE symmetry.

Perception Filter: Signature Spell with ALL of the Illusion school? Gnomes now love this class (Ah, Shadowcraft Mage, how you stack with this class!). Might want to tone this down to maybe 1~2 spells/spell level.

Don the Rainbow: Quite nice; of course, putting a range/area of effect for the Mantle's effect would probably be for the best. Also, fix the table; it says " the Rainbow"

Eyes of Light: Quite nice; of course, until 10th level, you can lower the See Invisible effect, but you can't raise it again. Fix that, won't you?

Wield the Rainbow: Interesting; however, unless you have other spells that increase damage. This assumes you want to take all levels in this class and also get 9th level spells; if not, you can dip more than 1 level of an Initiator class, and thus gain some nice maneuvers. Finally, I hope you are proficient in Longswords... I assume you can produce multiple Rainbow-Swords (for TWF purposes, of course.)

Master of Variegation: This is really nice; of course, you don't get this feature until you hit level 13~14, and it only helps out a small number of spells; however, everyone would just use this to get an 8, so keep that in mind.

Taste the Rainbow: I would never use this; I get to heal 7-42 HP, and then can't cast spells for 3 rounds! By the way, Darkness doesn't actually make it dark; use Deeper Darkness instead.

Corona: You might want a note preventing them from using the Natural Sunlight(TM) produced by this ability to trigger the Fast Healing... Unless that was intended.

I would suggest that you might want to dial some abilities up or down. Such as Taste the Rainbow.

Fable Wright
2011-08-27, 06:08 PM
If it is done well I won't mind. Dragoon Wraith did something similar for the Deadwood which got very good reviews.

It got very mixed reviews. Some loved it, some hated it. If it's done well, people can ignore the headache that goes with the mixed mechanics and fluff, but otherwise it's going to hurt your class. The Deadwood class worked well as it covered the transformation that the class was, describing the process and flow of the events. That worked for a class when the person was literally turning into another being, but I don't know how it would work when applied to a development of skills. Tread carefully when doing this.

JoshuaZ
2011-08-27, 06:28 PM
Hmm, light... light... all good and cheery.

So what do people think of a PrC which uses light from the Far Realm to corrupt both the minds and bodies of others, turning them into gibbering aberrations?

ErrantX
2011-08-27, 09:04 PM
Hmm, light... light... all good and cheery.

So what do people think of a PrC which uses light from the Far Realm to corrupt both the minds and bodies of others, turning them into gibbering aberrations?

Extra points to you if you do this contest using Ozodrin with that idea :smalltongue:

-X

Lord_Gareth
2011-08-27, 09:12 PM
Hey Errant, check yer own website, I left you feedback.

Owrtho
2011-08-27, 09:18 PM
How much would everyone yell at me if I wrote all of the rule text in first person?

Huh, it's an interesting read. Quite strange to read ability descriptions in first person, though not bad. Oddly, your class is almost the opposite of the class I plan to do, which creates light to make darker shadows, then forms features from said shadows.


Hmm, light... light... all good and cheery.

So what do people think of a PrC which uses light from the Far Realm to corrupt both the minds and bodies of others, turning them into gibbering aberrations?

That sound fun. Look forward to seeing it if that's what you decide on.

Owrtho

unosarta
2011-08-27, 09:42 PM
Rainbow Thaumaturge

Concept: Quite nice; I've always liked your prismatic line.
Thanks! I dunno about the food ones though, they seem kind of off theme on the others, but whatevs.


Prereqs: Not too hard; easy access for the aspiring color-obsessed mage.
Okay.


Skills: Ahem..? I can't say anything, because I don't have mine up yet.
Oh shoot! I knew there was something I forgot.


HD: Higher than the usual d4 for caster PrCs, but since you can enter from the Cleric, it would be a step down in that case... besides, it just means an average of +10 HP, which isn't much really.
Yeah, that was the point. I was trying to keep it halfway between cleric and wizard, and since they get Wield the Rainbow, they need some hit points so they don't just automatically die if they try to fight in melee.


Reading the Rainbow: Nice. Very flavorful. Only problem I can see is that the Spellcraft boost is untyped; all [Light]-loving Incantatrix's love you now; of course, can't judge from the highest, and all that.
Insight, maybe? Insight seems like the best bonus type, from the ability's fluff.


Chromatic Strength: A non-scaling bonus to CL for one school, and a couple spells outside it? I would feel better if 2nd level lost a CL, instead of 3rd; of course, that's actually just because I LOVE symmetry.
Not a bad idea, I dare say. Mostly, I was just wanting to keep the caster level loss low so it wouldn't become "take the class until they lose a caster level then ditch it" but I always do that and make the first level without a caster level increase, and I wanted to break the pattern.


Perception Filter: Signature Spell with ALL of the Illusion school? Gnomes now love this class (Ah, Shadowcraft Mage, how you stack with this class!). Might want to tone this down to maybe 1~2 spells/spell level.
Maybe the illusion spell is one level lower than the spell slot? The main problem was Clerics, who would be kind of screwed if they wanted to use Illusions, since they get like none on their spell list, and the Trickery domain can only go so far, since they already need the Rainbow domain and I don't know of any gods with both Rainbow and Trickery (although I also don't know any with rainbow, but whatever).


Don the Rainbow: Quite nice; of course, putting a range/area of effect for the Mantle's effect would probably be for the best. Also, fix the table; it says " the Rainbow"
Good point. I will fix 'em.


Eyes of Light: Quite nice; of course, until 10th level, you can lower the See Invisible effect, but you can't raise it again. Fix that, won't you?
Oh yeah. I saw that when I was writing it, but I figured that anyone would get the intention behind the wording. I will reword.


Wield the Rainbow: Interesting; however, unless you have other spells that increase damage. This assumes you want to take all levels in this class and also get 9th level spells; if not, you can dip more than 1 level of an Initiator class, and thus gain some nice maneuvers. Finally, I hope you are proficient in Longswords... I assume you can produce multiple Rainbow-Swords (for TWF purposes, of course.)
Oh, good points! I will add some details (the idea was only one longsword, but I will also add something about two shortswords instead [since shortswords are better for two-weapon fighting]).


Master of Variegation: This is really nice; of course, you don't get this feature until you hit level 13~14, and it only helps out a small number of spells; however, everyone would just use this to get an 8, so keep that in mind.
Oh! Good catch. That was not my intention at all. I will change it so you can only get one result. Thanks.


Taste the Rainbow: I would never use this; I get to heal 7-42 HP, and then can't cast spells for 3 rounds! By the way, Darkness doesn't actually make it dark; use Deeper Darkness instead.
Hm. Would it be better if I removed the inability to cast? I just love the idea of converting light into healing, both thematically and just because it's awesome. Also, it gains a bonus equal to your caster level, which means it is at minimum 21-54. But yeah, still a good point.


Corona: You might want a note preventing them from using the Natural Sunlight(TM) produced by this ability to trigger the Fast Healing... Unless that was intended.
Oh, yeah, good point. No, it wasn't intended.



I would suggest that you might want to dial some abilities up or down. Such as Taste the Rainbow.
Yeah, thanks. I will get to yours tonight, most likely.

[Edit]: All changes incorporated.

Glimbur
2011-08-27, 10:28 PM
I do feel a little guilty about taking the name Illuminati. I'm also intending to PEACH other classes... when I'm feeling less lazy. Probably in a day or two.

unosarta
2011-08-27, 11:02 PM
Devourer of Light
Concept: Very interesting, very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, the idea of consuming shadow until you reflect a "light shadow" is kind of ridiculous, but I love the idea of mirroring shadow and light.

Prereqs: Quite simple. May I ask the reasoning for the Hide ranks? I cannot quite get where that is coming from. Also, you should probably include a link to the Ozodrin class, just to be easiest for the reader, so they don't have to go search it out.

Skills: Yeah, I don't think this needs mentioning. Good idea; copy and paste the Ozodrin skill list and add or remove skills as necessary. That is how I usually do it (my current entry is a special case, since there are too many entry points for it to really work).

Aura of Light Consumption: I have to say that, while I like the third person text in general, it is kind of irksome when you switch from fluff to mechanics, because my mind is just screaming "classes are metagame constructs" and "how does this character know about the game mechanics of his/her universe?!" But on to the actual ability.

I love the idea of Darklight. Can I steal that for Taste the Rainbow? That is exactly what I was thinking of when I made the ability.

Changed Essence: Blah-blah-blah, Ozodrin ability continuation, coolio.

Devour Light: What if there are no other sources of light within 100 feet? What if you aren't using your abilities? For the eighth level bonus, can you choose not to have certain light sources excluded from this effect?

Excrete Light: Awesome fluff.

Fade Into Light: Interesting. Not really getting the Hide in Plain Sight Bit, but I guess the other part is cool.

Lurker in My Own Darkness: This is also quite interesting. I like the addition of both the light and dark subtypes.

Fluff: I would advise removing the spaces in between the paragraphs. It would be much easier to read that way. Otherwise, quite interesting. Would you listen if I advised you that I would like the fluff more if you played up the mirroring of light and darkness? Probably not, but what the hey. In the fluff itself, it isn't very apparent that the character has such dualistic themes (OH GOD I SOUND PRETENTIOUS *slaps own face*), and although that would be kind of strangely self referential, it could be an important detail for first time potential players of the class.

Owrtho
2011-08-28, 01:37 AM
Devourer of Light
Concept: Very interesting, very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, the idea of consuming shadow until you reflect a "light shadow" is kind of ridiculous, but I love the idea of mirroring shadow and light.

Just thought I'd mention they consume light (which causes shadows to form) until they reflect a "light shadow".

Also, I'm curious where you would generally see people getting darkness as a spell like ability, and might suggest expanding it to include people who have it as a supernatural ability.

In other news, put up the basics of my entry. Rather incomplete, lacking most of the ability list, fluff, etc, but that will fill in with time. To summarize it though, first you gain the ability to form features from nearby shadows (with the total form point cost being regulated by how dark the shadow is and how large). Then you start gaining the ability for your wisp form to cast darker shadows from objects that block its light. Then you gain the ability to form features from light in your wisp form. Eventually gain the ability for your shadow features to swallow people whole, porting them to the plane of shadows. Also progresses shadowcasting and some of the wisp fire guide spells (specifically those that deal with light and shadows. Not the rest).

Owrtho

Phosphate
2011-08-28, 04:47 AM
Well, can say my Energist is done aswell. Feel free to PEACH.

At first, I was a bit concerned by his level of power, but as I can see the other classes are also at about that tier, so I'm leaving it as is.

Either way, major creativity here from everyone. I'm impressed :D.

Morph Bark
2011-08-28, 06:54 AM
Extra points to you if you do this contest using Ozodrin with that idea :smalltongue:

-X

B-b-but... that makes anyone hardly any competition! :smallfrown:

JoshuaZ
2011-08-28, 08:40 AM
Extra points to you if you do this contest using Ozodrin with that idea :smalltongue:

-X

We'll see. I'm actually trying to do a hybrid ozodrin/xenotheurge/spellcasting class. The standard belief is that triple PrCs are way too weak and too mechanically complicated. We'll see if I can get this to work.

Morph Bark
2011-08-28, 11:05 AM
The Raysailor of Sol Invictus is done. Taken out infusion requirements because they're not necessary and just make the overall thing too strong, which is not something I want. I've thought of adding another level 10 ability and take out the caster level increase there, but then you're barred from level 9 spells, which is not something most people look forward to. I am thinking of perhaps adding one extra ability to each of the colors of Use Light though, something sight-related or such and basing it off something from Exalted (since each of the five maidens have an associated color, the Ebon Dragon could be Black, Sol/Luna could be White and make up something for the rest, maybe Gaia and Autochthon?).

Anyone want to PEACH or trade PEACHes?

Hyooz
2011-08-28, 02:54 PM
Currently working on an assassin-type PrC known as the Ikaruga (yes, named for the game, but I found a more thematic reason for the name.) Similar to its namesake, Ikaruga can switch between two polarities, gaining a slew of different abilities, strengths, and weaknesses as they fill themselves with, or purge themselves of light.

Morph Bark
2011-08-28, 03:09 PM
Just beware it doesn't end up too close to the Shadow Sun Ninja.

Hyooz
2011-08-28, 03:37 PM
No worries in that regard. This is a pretty different take.

Owrtho
2011-08-28, 07:23 PM
Well, I updated my entry slightly. Still need to get class skills and a few abilities done (as well as most of the fluff). Anyway, Amechra, I'm borrowing your darklight degree of darkness if you don't mind. If you would prefer I don't do so, I'll replace it with something different. Suggestion or advice is welcome. On some areas I feel wording turned out poorly.

Owrtho

Owrtho
2011-08-28, 09:03 PM
Well, updated my class again. Mostly done, only ability incomplete is the features of light, which I'm at a loss on figuring out effects for. I'm thinking maybe allowing some kind of boost based on wispfire damage, but not sure about what else, or even what such a boost would be. Still need to complete the fluff on the end.

Owrtho

Amechra
2011-08-29, 02:44 PM
You can use Darklight if you want; heck, a Devourer of Light crossclassed with a ?Lurker in Light? (was that the name?) would be so much fun...

Amechra
2011-08-29, 02:50 PM
Devourer of Light
Concept: Very interesting, very interesting indeed. Unfortunately, the idea of consuming shadow until you reflect a "light shadow" is kind of ridiculous, but I love the idea of mirroring shadow and light.

Prereqs: Quite simple. May I ask the reasoning for the Hide ranks? I cannot quite get where that is coming from. Also, you should probably include a link to the Ozodrin class, just to be easiest for the reader, so they don't have to go search it out.

There really isn't a "Light skill. I'll probably change it to something else."

Skills: Yeah, I don't think this needs mentioning. Good idea; copy and paste the Ozodrin skill list and add or remove skills as necessary. That is how I usually do it (my current entry is a special case, since there are too many entry points for it to really work).

Aura of Light Consumption: I have to say that, while I like the third person text in general, it is kind of irksome when you switch from fluff to mechanics, because my mind is just screaming "classes are metagame constructs" and "how does this character know about the game mechanics of his/her universe?!" But on to the actual ability.

The character is like Deadpool. You know, so insane he breaks the 4th wall?

I love the idea of Darklight. Can I steal that for Taste the Rainbow? That is exactly what I was thinking of when I made the ability.

Yes, you may. It would make more sense than the Darkness spell (which only creates shadowy illumination.)

Changed Essence: Blah-blah-blah, Ozodrin ability continuation, coolio.

Devour Light: What if there are no other sources of light within 100 feet? What if you aren't using your abilities? For the eighth level bonus, can you choose not to have certain light sources excluded from this effect?

If there aren't sources of light, this doesn't work. If you aren't using the rest of your abilities, this still works; you can be in your worldly form, and laugh as you effectively devour someone with shadows. And yes, you may choose to exclude no light sources.

Essentially, this works as a sort of "Oh crap, he just put out the torches, didn't he?" thing, especially since it heals you afterwards.

Excrete Light: Awesome fluff.

Fade Into Light: Interesting. Not really getting the Hide in Plain Sight Bit, but I guess the other part is cool.

Hide in Plain Sight allows this class to hide in the light emitted by their own bodies. Otherwise, the Hide skill would be useless for them.

Lurker in My Own Darkness: This is also quite interesting. I like the addition of both the light and dark subtypes.

Fluff: I would advise removing the spaces in between the paragraphs. It would be much easier to read that way. Otherwise, quite interesting. Would you listen if I advised you that I would like the fluff more if you played up the mirroring of light and darkness? Probably not, but what the hey. In the fluff itself, it isn't very apparent that the character has such dualistic themes (OH GOD I SOUND PRETENTIOUS *slaps own face*), and although that would be kind of strangely self referential, it could be an important detail for first time potential players of the class.

I'll take that under advisement.

Answers in red, sorry for the double post.

Glimbur
2011-08-29, 07:40 PM
PEACH for Ray Sailor of Sol Invictus!
I get the feeling that you have played Exalted... whatevs.

Amusingly, the only Knowledge skill a sorcerer has in-class is arcana. That means it requires at least a 14 int (or 12 int and human) to qualify for the class, and that doesn't leave much room for Concentration which is a pretty important skill. Favored Souls have the same problem of lack of knowledge skills in class. I wonder if the Craft(Sculpting) requirement is necessary... we will see. Beguilers seem to have the best time of it as they are Int focused so they can afford the skill points for this. There could be entry after 5th level except spontaneous casters are a level behind, so this class is entry after 6th level. Why is it only open to spontaneous casters? We shall see.

4+ skills helps, but the skill list seems much broader than the expected entries. For example, why is Knowledge(Dungeoneering) or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) or Knowledge(Architecture and Engineering) or, most powerfully, UMD on the class list?

1/2 BAB and good will save is very Sorcerer. 8/10 casting means there should be some useful features in here. I personally think that full casting PrCs are poorly designed, so props for this.

Net proficiency! Random, but whatever.

Class feature time! Control Light should come after Guiding Lantern, as it references Guiding Lantern. A first level power at 7+ level is... let's see what else the class gets.

Guiding Lantern seems like a theme which will be developed. It would be nice if we were a bit clearer on the reduction of miss chance, I think you mean "If a creature of the same alignment as the god of the Raysailor attacks a creature which is between the first creature and the Guiding Lantern, miss chance due to concealment reduced by one step." It's kind of awkward to phrase that.

Lighten Up is an Int based ability in a class that requires a Cha or Wis/Cha based caster to enter... or a beguiler I suppose if they get enough [Light] spells. It's useful for helping with encumbrance and the higher level version will be useful for loading and unloading cargo. Besides the pun it doesn't seem particularly light themed though.

Advanced Learning is useful... for beguilers/warmages/etc. Adding things to a spell list isn't all that helpful for sorcerers or favored souls, as they are restricted by spells known. Consider adding one spell known each time Advanced Learning adds spells to a spell list.

Take Light seems like it silly, as lighting a lantern is generally pretty trivial, until you get to the part where it replenishes uses of Use Light. This makes Use Light recover somewhat between encounters, though the per day limit on Take Light limits this recovery.

Solar Sails: is the infusion done via Lighten Up, or the casting of the spells with [Light] or [Air] descriptors? If it starts failing within 8 hours, when does it finish failing?

Use Light: this seems to be the meat of the class. It seems like a character will generally want to stay at 0 Blackness, in order to be able to use White Light, and if Black Light is needed one can gain a point of Blackness via a different color. Is maximum Blackness equal to class level? It seems likely but it is not clearly stated.
You can reduce the amount of Blackness you have by 1 each day that you use all colors except White and Black. should probably read "each day that you use any color except White and Black", unless you want Raysailors to be unable to reduce Blackness until class level 9.
Red Light: already, these are not spell-like abilities despite being described as such earlier. That's fine, but please change the first sentence of Use Light. Creative use could be handy, but people generally have enhancement bonuses at these levels. Could be useful for buffing minions/summons/etc. Destructive doesn't do very much damage... 10d6 at level 16 is kind of weak. The reverse is more potent, which seems to be your intent. The Regain action should make it clear that you still take the elemental damage, which seems to be your intent.
Orange: Creative is minor untyped bonus to skills, most of which are pretty easy by character level 10. Destructive doesn't do very much damage, but the reverse is interesting. Is the acid damage conditional on being blinded? That is how it is written now, which seems strange.
Yellow: Creative is useful. Destructive is yet another blast. Reverse is ok, Regain is pretty standard by now.
Green: Creative is handy. Destructive... it's not another blast! Huzzah! How many attacks does the hand get? Just one, or iteratives based on BAB? For the Reverse, please specify how long the sickness lasts (probably 1d4 rounds, if I read you right). This Regain is hard to do, and maybe not worth attempting unless you have a custom item of Spellcraft or something. Still, there is Take Light to recharge this.
Blue: Creative: specify a caster level for Dispel Magic. Destructive is interesting, it would be more worthwhile if it affected multiple targets. There is no Reverse here... maybe giving you control over effects you dispelled would be interesting. The Regain is strange here, as these characters so far have not needed Diplomacy or Perform(Oratory). What is the DC on a Perform(Oratory) check to inspire? Performances are routine, enjoyable, great, memorable, or extraordinary.
Indigo: Creative is unique in not expending the light. On the other hand, it's a niche 2nd level spell at character level ~15. Not a concern for balance reasons... if anything too weak. The Destructive use is stylish, but Confusion is a 4th level spell and hits an area instead of just a single target. The reverse does at most 3d6 Wis damage, which is kind of scary but gaining Blackness is kind of a big deal too. Regain again keys off of a skill that the character is not certain to have.
Violet: Creative is useful in towns or against mooks or whatever. A gaze attack at level ~15 is fine, especially one that only charms. Destructive is cool: forced Dim Door and possible Banishment. The Reverse is too weak: it would be balanced just to bestow a negative level without any need for grapples or what have you. How likely are you to want to bestow a negative level on someone willing to kiss you? In addition, the suggestion is kind of silly as only the first kiss seems to give a negative level. I see what you're trying to do, but it won't work well in practice. How long does the negative level last?Regain is... commoner with 1 HD is DC 27 spellcraft check. Level 15 means 18 ranks in spellcraft, plus int mod, plus a few other factors could be added. It's a gamble worth taking on full ranks alone though. Again, how long does the negative level last?
White: Creative would be fine balance-wise if the aura lasted until you regained some other colors, Fast Healing and minor bonus damage is not a lot to have up all day, especially if it ties up class features. Destructive: how do spell effects interact with the barrier? For example, it seems that a fireball would go right through it, but a Hold Person could not be targeted through the opaque barrier. Am I right?
Black: Creative is kind of useful, but the HD limit is painful. I'm too lazy to look up how good Bone Creature or Corpse Creature are, but it's possible the limit could be raised to CL or even Character Level with no ill effects. Destructive is kind of unimpressive for a capstone, honestly.

Crew of Light: Here is where Craft(sculpting) comes in. One crew member isn't really enough to crew a ship, and the constructs seem like in general they will be used more as disposable semi-permanent minions like Planar Bound things or animal companions.

Playing a Raysailor needs to be written.

Raysailors in the world... Ciddarttha Naśt will run out of infusion ability pretty soon. The others show the variety available to the class, which is nice.

There's no explanation for why this is only open to spontaneous casters, or why it is a caster PrC at all. There doesn't seem to be a need for a Raysailor to worship a god with the Sun domain... they don't seem to draw power from a god or anything like that. Use Light is the cornerstone of the class but the powers range from situational to kind of useless. I would drop the Craft and Knowledge requirements to allow 2+ skill point characters access, and maybe raise Profession(Sailor) requirements to 8 ranks. Use Light... take a look at what level-appropriate spells can do. Most things are too weak for their character level. It looks like you took several interesting ideas and combined them... which is a good start. Now comes the harder part of merging them together and making the power somewhat higher. Good luck!

unosarta
2011-08-29, 08:18 PM
Answers in red, sorry for the double post.

Well, all of my questions were covered. *shrug*

C'nor
2011-08-30, 08:55 AM
ErrantX, your signature still links to the last contest, not the current one...

Morph Bark
2011-08-30, 11:44 AM
Answers are in red:


PEACH for Ray Sailor of Sol Invictus!
I get the feeling that you have played Exalted... whatevs.

:smallredface: I actually only stole the name, though admittably I've thought of adding more utility abilities to Use Light inspired by Exalted.

Amusingly, the only Knowledge skill a sorcerer has in-class is arcana. That means it requires at least a 14 int (or 12 int and human) to qualify for the class, and that doesn't leave much room for Concentration which is a pretty important skill. Favored Souls have the same problem of lack of knowledge skills in class. I wonder if the Craft(Sculpting) requirement is necessary... we will see. Beguilers seem to have the best time of it as they are Int focused so they can afford the skill points for this. There could be entry after 5th level except spontaneous casters are a level behind, so this class is entry after 6th level. Why is it only open to spontaneous casters? We shall see.

Hmmm, point. It's partly why I kept it at only 4 ranks, but I could lower Craft (sculpting) to 4 ranks. With 4 skill points/level you could then qualify and still keep up Concentration as well. Luckily as far as I know all casters get Craft and Profession as class skills. I left it only to spontaneous casters both because I think they can use the extra and because I hate prepared casters.

4+ skills helps, but the skill list seems much broader than the expected entries. For example, why is Knowledge(Dungeoneering) or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) or Knowledge(Architecture and Engineering) or, most powerfully, UMD on the class list?

UMD can be taken off, it was mostly due to originally the class requiring Artificer levels. All the Knowledges is prettymuch just because not enough classes get them and more knowledge means more... uh... "enlightenment"?

1/2 BAB and good will save is very Sorcerer. 8/10 casting means there should be some useful features in here. I personally think that full casting PrCs are poorly designed, so props for this.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

Net proficiency! Random, but whatever.

Net what you want, 'cause a sailor is free. :smalltongue:

Class feature time! Control Light should come after Guiding Lantern, as it references Guiding Lantern. A first level power at 7+ level is... let's see what else the class gets.

I'm used to doing things alphabetically, but thanks for the advice, will implement.

Guiding Lantern seems like a theme which will be developed. It would be nice if we were a bit clearer on the reduction of miss chance, I think you mean "If a creature of the same alignment as the god of the Raysailor attacks a creature which is between the first creature and the Guiding Lantern, miss chance due to concealment reduced by one step." It's kind of awkward to phrase that.

That's what I meant yeah. Will change the wording so.

Lighten Up is an Int based ability in a class that requires a Cha or Wis/Cha based caster to enter... or a beguiler I suppose if they get enough [Light] spells. It's useful for helping with encumbrance and the higher level version will be useful for loading and unloading cargo. Besides the pun it doesn't seem particularly light themed though.

Making the object shed light is not light-themed?

Advanced Learning is useful... for beguilers/warmages/etc. Adding things to a spell list isn't all that helpful for sorcerers or favored souls, as they are restricted by spells known. Consider adding one spell known each time Advanced Learning adds spells to a spell list.

Hmm, seems like a good idea. Thanks.

Take Light seems like it silly, as lighting a lantern is generally pretty trivial, until you get to the part where it replenishes uses of Use Light. This makes Use Light recover somewhat between encounters, though the per day limit on Take Light limits this recovery.

Mhmm, exactly.

Solar Sails: is the infusion done via Lighten Up, or the casting of the spells with [Light] or [Air] descriptors? If it starts failing within 8 hours, when does it finish failing?

Solar sails function only on ships infused via Lighten Up, but require castings of [Light] or [Air] spells to keep functioning. I meant for it to prettymuch be like "8 hours up? Okay, the ship starts falling."

Use Light: this seems to be the meat of the class. It seems like a character will generally want to stay at 0 Blackness, in order to be able to use White Light, and if Black Light is needed one can gain a point of Blackness via a different color. Is maximum Blackness equal to class level? It seems likely but it is not clearly stated. should probably read "each day that you use any color except White and Black", unless you want Raysailors to be unable to reduce Blackness until class level 9.

Huh, I guess I missed including maximum Blackness. It is indeed class level. And you're right, I'll change it to read "each day that you use all colors you know except White and Black".

Red Light: already, these are not spell-like abilities despite being described as such earlier. That's fine, but please change the first sentence of Use Light. Creative use could be handy, but people generally have enhancement bonuses at these levels. Could be useful for buffing minions/summons/etc. Destructive doesn't do very much damage... 10d6 at level 16 is kind of weak. The reverse is more potent, which seems to be your intent. The Regain action should make it clear that you still take the elemental damage, which seems to be your intent.

The reverses are intentionally more potent due to them giving you Blackness in return. I don't know what you mean by that it "should make it clear that you still take the elemental damage", because it never says you can prevent it. It only works if you take at least 10 points of fire damage, so if you are immune to fire, you cannot regain it in this manner (hence why there is Take Light).

I've also added spell-slot consumptions to all the Use Lights on their Destructive and Reverse functions.

Orange: Creative is minor untyped bonus to skills, most of which are pretty easy by character level 10. Destructive doesn't do very much damage, but the reverse is interesting. Is the acid damage conditional on being blinded? That is how it is written now, which seems strange.

Doubled the bonus to keep it relevant. The ongoing acid damage per round is conditional on being blinded, but the initial acid damage is not. Basically its fluff-wise meant to be like "tiny explosions of force remain behind, materializing acidic matter as the explosions burst in your face with blinding light and the acid sticks on your face". Or something like that.

Yellow: Creative is useful. Destructive is yet another blast. Reverse is ok, Regain is pretty standard by now.

Green: Creative is handy. Destructive... it's not another blast! Huzzah! How many attacks does the hand get? Just one, or iteratives based on BAB? For the Reverse, please specify how long the sickness lasts (probably 1d4 rounds, if I read you right). This Regain is hard to do, and maybe not worth attempting unless you have a custom item of Spellcraft or something. Still, there is Take Light to recharge this.

It's meant to get iteratives as normal for BAB, so yes.

Blue: Creative: specify a caster level for Dispel Magic. Destructive is interesting, it would be more worthwhile if it affected multiple targets. There is no Reverse here... maybe giving you control over effects you dispelled would be interesting. The Regain is strange here, as these characters so far have not needed Diplomacy or Perform(Oratory). What is the DC on a Perform(Oratory) check to inspire? Performances are routine, enjoyable, great, memorable, or extraordinary.

Specified caster level. Made Destructive affect up to 2 targets. Added Reverse. I dunno what the DC on a Perform (oratory) check for that is, but IIRC there are other PrCs or classes that can do that. Lowered the requirement, increased Spellcraft DC.

Indigo: Creative is unique in not expending the light. On the other hand, it's a niche 2nd level spell at character level ~15. Not a concern for balance reasons... if anything too weak. The Destructive use is stylish, but Confusion is a 4th level spell and hits an area instead of just a single target. The reverse does at most 3d6 Wis damage, which is kind of scary but gaining Blackness is kind of a big deal too. Regain again keys off of a skill that the character is not certain to have.

Lowered the requirement, increased Spellcraft DC. Made Creative at-will. Increased target amount of Destructive.

Violet: Creative is useful in towns or against mooks or whatever. A gaze attack at level ~15 is fine, especially one that only charms. Destructive is cool: forced Dim Door and possible Banishment. The Reverse is too weak: it would be balanced just to bestow a negative level without any need for grapples or what have you. How likely are you to want to bestow a negative level on someone willing to kiss you? In addition, the suggestion is kind of silly as only the first kiss seems to give a negative level. I see what you're trying to do, but it won't work well in practice. How long does the negative level last?Regain is... commoner with 1 HD is DC 27 spellcraft check. Level 15 means 18 ranks in spellcraft, plus int mod, plus a few other factors could be added. It's a gamble worth taking on full ranks alone though. Again, how long does the negative level last?

Negative levels last as long as normal: one day. Added that the second kiss also bestows a negative level.

White: Creative would be fine balance-wise if the aura lasted until you regained some other colors, Fast Healing and minor bonus damage is not a lot to have up all day, especially if it ties up class features. Destructive: how do spell effects interact with the barrier? For example, it seems that a fireball would go right through it, but a Hold Person could not be targeted through the opaque barrier. Am I right?

It was meant to more closely resemble the Violet part of a Prismatic Wall, so it would stop all magical effects. Editing in.

Black: Creative is kind of useful, but the HD limit is painful. I'm too lazy to look up how good Bone Creature or Corpse Creature are, but it's possible the limit could be raised to CL or even Character Level with no ill effects. Destructive is kind of unimpressive for a capstone, honestly.

Bone and Corpse creatures keep their class features and are intelligent.

Crew of Light: Here is where Craft(sculpting) comes in. One crew member isn't really enough to crew a ship, and the constructs seem like in general they will be used more as disposable semi-permanent minions like Planar Bound things or animal companions.

Increased amount of constructs to start with 4, since you need 5 minimum for most of the smaller big ships (as in, not a rowboat, but neither a warship).

Playing a Raysailor needs to be written.

Point. I rushed to get the mechanics done and forgot about that part, as school has started for me again. ^^;

Raysailors in the world... Ciddarttha Naśt will run out of infusion ability pretty soon. The others show the variety available to the class, which is nice.

The region she travels through is meant to have very few villages far-off from one another. :smallwink: Plus, I plan on statting her up so you can see how many Lighten Up uses she has. :smalltongue:

There's no explanation for why this is only open to spontaneous casters, or why it is a caster PrC at all. There doesn't seem to be a need for a Raysailor to worship a god with the Sun domain... they don't seem to draw power from a god or anything like that. Use Light is the cornerstone of the class but the powers range from situational to kind of useless. I would drop the Craft and Knowledge requirements to allow 2+ skill point characters access, and maybe raise Profession(Sailor) requirements to 8 ranks. Use Light... take a look at what level-appropriate spells can do. Most things are too weak for their character level. It looks like you took several interesting ideas and combined them... which is a good start. Now comes the harder part of merging them together and making the power somewhat higher. Good luck!

The god is for fluff reasons solely, really. I think I might tweak Use Light a little so that you can sacrifice a spell slot to increase the power. of the abilities. I'll consider your further suggestions for prerequisite adjustments.

Thanks for the PEACH! I'll be sure to return the favour when I have the time. :smallsmile:

Hyooz
2011-08-30, 11:33 PM
Woo! Version 1.2 of the Ikaruga is up and raring to go. Still needs some delicious flavor, but the mechanics are up, at least.

blackmage
2011-08-31, 11:35 AM
Do entries have to be 10-level classes? I'm not having any luck coming up with a good 10-level class thats actually a prestige class as opposed to really a brand-new mechanic for a base class. But a 5-level class, that I might be able to do.

ErrantX
2011-08-31, 11:39 AM
Do entries have to be 10-level classes? I'm not having any luck coming up with a good 10-level class thats actually a prestige class as opposed to really a brand-new mechanic for a base class. But a 5-level class, that I might be able to do.

I'm not opposed. Go for it.

-X

Owrtho
2011-09-04, 05:49 PM
Just thought I'd bump this and see if anyone has any suggestions for the features of light ability the light of lurking shadows grants. Can't really think of much except the possibility of allowing them to attack persistent affects of spells with the dark descriptor (and if successful destroy them, as I vaguely recall light spells can do). Perhaps also spells of the shadow subschool.

Owrtho

boomwolf
2011-09-05, 09:00 AM
Why is everyone making a "sneaky light" variant? the concept used to be something awkward and interesting but seriously it has been done to death and is hardly of any interest any more...


Anyways...is a "Blacklight Deciple" a valid entry, as it manipulate both light and shadow? (and requires to keep a balance of the two, or face serious consequences...)

Morph Bark
2011-09-05, 10:27 AM
Why is everyone making a "sneaky light" variant? the concept used to be something awkward and interesting but seriously it has been done to death and is hardly of any interest any more...

Please explain how the Raysailors of Sol Invictus are "sneaky light". :smallconfused:

For if they seems so, I'd like to remedy this at once.

ErrantX
2011-09-05, 11:03 AM
Why is everyone making a "sneaky light" variant? the concept used to be something awkward and interesting but seriously it has been done to death and is hardly of any interest any more...


Anyways...is a "Blacklight Deciple" a valid entry, as it manipulate both light and shadow? (and requires to keep a balance of the two, or face serious consequences...)

I'm fine with the idea boomwolf, go for it.

-X

boomwolf
2011-09-05, 12:19 PM
Please explain how the Raysailors of Sol Invictus are "sneaky light". :smallconfused:

For if they seems so, I'd like to remedy this at once.

"Everyone" does not necessarily means "everyone" its can be used figure of speech saying "too many of the people present", as it is in this case...

And I didn't look at you ray-pirates (:P) long enough to tell if they got a "sneaky light" factor in them...


EDIT: actually I think I might do another class...stuck with two ideas to choose from...

Phosphate
2011-09-05, 12:37 PM
Why is everyone making a "sneaky light" variant? the concept used to be something awkward and interesting but seriously it has been done to death and is hardly of any interest any more...

Not all. My class at least is extremely straightforward.

ErrantX
2011-09-05, 01:45 PM
Why is everyone making a "sneaky light" variant? the concept used to be something awkward and interesting but seriously it has been done to death and is hardly of any interest any more...


Anyways...is a "Blacklight Deciple" a valid entry, as it manipulate both light and shadow? (and requires to keep a balance of the two, or face serious consequences...)

I'm fine with the idea boomwolf, go for it.

-X

Amechra
2011-09-05, 01:51 PM
Hey, mine is less "Stealthy Light", and more "Become blind while I tear your face off with my tentacles MADE OF LIGHT!"

Hyooz
2011-09-05, 02:39 PM
Not even sure what "sneaky light" is supposed to mean. And 2-3 (depending on how you're defining "sneaky light", really I'm counting all the ones that aren't straightforward light) out of 9 is far from "everyone" anyway.

Owrtho
2011-09-05, 02:48 PM
I'd also note that if you mean sneaky light as being sneaky with the use of light, the light of lurking shadows doesn't really fit there either, as it is still a glowing ball of light intentionally trying to get peoples attention and draw them toward it (even if it plans to attack them with the shadows as they get close). Then again, it you consider using light as a distraction from the real threat, I suppose the wisp fire guide itself qualifies, making it fairly likely that the PRC would as well.

Edit: Added some abilities for features of light. May need some reworking or help with wording.

Owrtho

unosarta
2011-09-05, 05:20 PM
Do you mean "sneaky light" as in "using light as a means of Illusion"? If so, maybe because using light like that is the literal definition of what an Illusion is. Like, Illusions, even the lowest level, all involve changing or supplying light waves to a target/targets. That is all that it means. Thus, light and Illusions are really closely tied together. However, I would be hard pressed to say that any of the classes in this months contest are really based on being "sneaky" besides the Ikaruga, which also focuses on darkness (and might I say, after reading the class, looks absolutely wonderful; I really want to play one).

The Rainbow Thaumaturgist, the only other class that has even some "sneaky" abilities, is mainly based on the use of Prismatic spells and effects, and the illusions are not what the class is based on at all. In fact, besides the bonus to Caster level from Chromatic Strength and the Perception Filter class feature, there are no other mentions of Illusion at all in the class (you could argue that the second portion of the Master of Variegation is "sneaky" but would have to contend with the fact that the ability also allows the caster to change the visual effects of the spells as well, giving them the dual option).

None of the other classes really focus on stealth, on the whole, in a way that would make them subject to the criticism.

Ikaruga: The first paragraph of Polarity for the darkness section is talking about light polarity, rather than dark. You should probably change that.

Hyooz
2011-09-05, 06:31 PM
Ikaruga: The first paragraph of Polarity for the darkness section is talking about light polarity, rather than dark. You should probably change that.

Huh. Thanks for catching that. I feel silly.

C'nor
2011-09-06, 07:45 AM
Do you mean "sneaky light" as in "using light as a means of Illusion"? If so, maybe because using light like that is the literal definition of what an Illusion is. Like, Illusions, even the lowest level, all involve changing or supplying light waves to a target/targets. That is all that it means. Thus, light and Illusions are really closely tied together.
*snip*

I'd like to point out that there are other ways of producing Illusions, if what you mean is "something that appears real but isn't". You could alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, for example.

Phosphate
2011-09-06, 08:12 AM
Wait, what?!

Illusions are not real. In no way or form. Spells that manipulate light create energy, and therefore are Evocations.

Morph Bark
2011-09-06, 09:13 AM
Wait, what?!

Illusions are not real. In no way or form. Spells that manipulate light create energy, and therefore are Evocations.

I'd just like to point out here that manipulation is by no means the same as creation, at all.

For example, there are superheroes that can manipulate fire, but cannot produce it, whereas there are other superheroes that can both create and manipulate fire. (You may substitute "fire" for basically any other "elemental" ability.)

peacenlove
2011-09-06, 12:04 PM
Wait, what?!

Illusions are not real. In no way or form. Spells that manipulate light create energy, and therefore are Evocations.

Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocation.htm) disagrees.

Phosphate
2011-09-06, 12:15 PM
I'd just like to point out here that manipulation is by no means the same as creation, at all.

For example, there are superheroes that can manipulate fire, but cannot produce it, whereas there are other superheroes that can both create and manipulate fire. (You may substitute "fire" for basically any other "elemental" ability.)

The one that only manipulates the fire is a transmuter. Maybe I didn't express myself well enough.


Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocation.htm) disagrees.

That is true only because WotC are fallacious. Hence, for instance, my Prc having a penalty to both normal and shadow evocation.

C'nor
2011-09-06, 12:17 PM
But, simply manipulating light does not create energy. If you have existing light, and alter its direction magically, you haven't created any energy by doing so.

Phosphate
2011-09-06, 12:31 PM
But, simply manipulating light does not create energy. If you have existing light, and alter its direction magically, you haven't created any energy by doing so.

I. Agree.
God, people on forums like to argue so much they miss it when their opponent admits he made a mistake.

C'nor
2011-09-06, 12:33 PM
I may have missed a post, or misread you, I admit.

boomwolf
2011-09-06, 03:32 PM
I'd like to point out that there are other ways of producing Illusions, if what you mean is "something that appears real but isn't". You could alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, for example.

I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...

C'nor
2011-09-06, 03:38 PM
*Shrugs*

I didn't really care, not having followed this contest; I was just pointing out his error to the person that said that the definition of Illusion was manipulated light.

Hyooz
2011-09-06, 03:51 PM
I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...

Exactly two (out of nine) classes have sneak attack, and exactly one of them is anywhere near the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light" idea (which I challenge you to post enough examples of to qualify it as "cliche"), and that one is mine, which hides in the light and the dark, neither of which having anything to do with alignment, but with literal, actual light and dark.

If you're going to paint with such a broad, dismissive brush, you might want to make sure you have a proper canvas, or you're going to end up looking very, very silly.

Because you'll be covered in paint.

Phosphate
2011-09-06, 04:37 PM
I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...

Well, mine is a straight up in your face blaster/buffer...if played to the best of his ability. Because blasters need more love.

unosarta
2011-09-06, 08:02 PM
I'd like to point out that there are other ways of producing Illusions, if what you mean is "something that appears real but isn't". You could alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, for example.

I know that this is kind of beside the point, however, when considering the way Illusions function in D&D, which is what I was talking about, they have some specific ways they work. For instance, if one were to alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, it would only work for a certain creature, unless you managed to alter the feedback of every brain of every creature that sees the illusion, which is highly unlikely. In addition, the fact that if a creature interacts with the Illusion it can break, implies that only one or two sense are being affected by the Illusion. How exactly would one create only sight, or sound, and not touch as well? That seems shaky, at best.

C'nor
2011-09-06, 09:58 PM
If you can manipulate electricity (or lightning, since I doubt it would actually say that), which I'm sure there's some sort of spell for, you could control the electrical signals sent and received by the eye before they reach the brain. It would take a lot of practice to get right, but you could do it.

unosarta
2011-09-06, 10:09 PM
I am talking specifically about spells of the Illusion school, even more specifically, figment spells.

Also, as frigging awesome as that would be, it still doesn't account for the fact that figment spells (I probably should have been more specific on that), or really Illusion spells in general, affect multiple creatures, which would be next to impossible with electric signals.

Owrtho
2011-09-06, 11:23 PM
There are actually some illusion spells that work by altering only selected beings perception, such as phantasmal killer. There are also illusions that work by altering light, producing sound, or simulating other senses (such as olfactory illusions and tactile illusions as opposed to the more common auditory or visual illusions). In any case you can break through them since even if you perceive there is something there and can feel it, there isn't actually anything there and you can push through.

That said, outside spells, illusions can simply be things like slight of hand or other similar deceptions and performances (ventriloquists give the illusion the dummy is talking, mimes give the illusion they're interacting with something, etc.)

Owrtho

Phosphate
2011-09-07, 11:57 AM
It would take a lot of practice to get right, but you could do it.

On the other hand, simply manipulating electricity in someone's visual receptors to permanently blind him is MUCH easier.

EITHER WAY, [Shadow] spells should be conjurations, not illusions. Or at the least, belong to both schools.

C'nor
2011-09-07, 12:00 PM
True. And I bet that would be a lot harder to get rid of than magical blindness, too.

And yes, if you're bringing things in from another plane, that should be a Conjuration spell, though if it's an illusion then it should be in both.

boomwolf
2011-09-08, 11:26 AM
Exactly two (out of nine) classes have sneak attack, and exactly one of them is anywhere near the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light" idea (which I challenge you to post enough examples of to qualify it as "cliche"), and that one is mine, which hides in the light and the dark, neither of which having anything to do with alignment, but with literal, actual light and dark.

If you're going to paint with such a broad, dismissive brush, you might want to make sure you have a proper canvas, or you're going to end up looking very, very silly.



But looking silly is my specialty...

Anyways I should have used another wording then "sneak-attack", because I meant to include all the bluffers/illusionist/real SA users etc in that...the wider concept of "light as shadow replacement/manipulating light to make shadow" includes exactly 4 of the 8 (counting is tech) classes posted, that is to say "half".

as for examples, this theme (light as "shadow" replacement/maker) as been made in almost every second battle-focused anime/cartoon/action tv ever to some extent...(from Mutant X to Samurai Jack)

This leads me to my final point, my "Blacklight Deciple" would be a very bad idea, and as such I scrap it (or it would have made 5 out of 9 as he manipulates both light and shadow)

So, instead, I will revisit one of my old creations, and base a class out of him.
Shurain, the demon/god, also known as The Purifier, The Burning Hatred, The Red Rain, The Eternal Blaze, AntiPelor.
The Chaotic Evil sun god Shurain, the only god who refuses to any prayer, the only god with no followers, the only god who rejects the mere concept of worship, he who drains his power directly from planes of fire, and all that burns becomes a part of him.

And the Purifiers of Shurain (the class) are twisted-minded individuals, picked by Shurain to carry his power, and unleash it to burn everything, the ones Shurain has determined to have the most destructive potential. (needless to say this class is intended for CE, but NE and CN can also get in)

Or should I make a few quotes, as a small preview:
"Glorious Shurain! lend me your light!"
"Shurain light my path, and burn all who stand in it"
"A fortunes death is to bath in the purifying light of Shurain, as it reduces you to nothing, consider yourself lucky."
"Cleanse! Purge! KILL!"
(read in homicidal screaming voice:)"MELT EVERYTHING MUST MELT!"

Fluff-wise you can't choose this class, you get chosen for it and get stuck with it's power, for better and worse. (I just love making classes that grant great power, but you can't fully control it!)

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 11:33 AM
So...what's the ruling on metaphorical light for the class? Codename: Twilight's Guide (i.e. no REAL name for it yet :smallbiggrin:) uses a sort of spiritual light to act as a beacon for restless spirits. I think that's currently acceptable, but I wanted to make sure.

ErrantX
2011-09-10, 11:49 AM
So...what's the ruling on metaphorical light for the class? Codename: Twilight's Guide (i.e. no REAL name for it yet :smallbiggrin:) uses a sort of spiritual light to act as a beacon for restless spirits. I think that's currently acceptable, but I wanted to make sure.

I'm intrigued. Proceed. :smallcool:

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 12:46 PM
I'm intrigued. Proceed. :smallcool:

Excellent. *rubs hands together evilly*

This one is actually going to be rather difficult to word properly...ah well. I've got time. :smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 03:52 PM
The Twilight's Guide has been mostly posted. Comments and concerns are appreciated! :smallbiggrin:

Phosphate
2011-09-10, 04:51 PM
Hmm, nice stuff. Requirements sting a bit though.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 04:54 PM
Hmm, nice stuff. Requirements sting a bit though.

Yeah...I've never really intended my Prestige Classes to be easy to enter though. It's my personal philosophy that the class should appeal to players on the merits of it being INTERESTING, mechanics be (more or less) damned. In short, it's not a case of "why would anyone not take this and/or take this with a character of X class," but rather a case of "can I make this interesting enough that someone will build a character around it? As such, no one is going to just discover that they happen to qualify for one of my PrCs. So the requirements sting a bit, but then again some of the abilities are QUITE good. I mean, a bunch of telekinesis spells helping you out? Dodging to another plane? Having an invincible, Constitution-draining sidekick? That's some rather serious punch there. :smallbiggrin:

Phosphate
2011-09-10, 05:01 PM
I don't mean it's hard to enter...mine's actually harder, considering you need 4 skills and level 4 spells, which are quite up there. I mean it hurts you (you will not need the ranks you invest in Survival, and old age is, well...also the alignment is incredibly restrictive)

One other thing. Your description of a "souled" creature being anything with Int, Wis and Cha...well outsiders and intelligent undead have Int, Wis and Cha, but that doesn't give them souls.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 05:04 PM
I don't mean it's hard to enter...mine's actually harder, considering you need 4 skills and level 4 spells, which are quite up there. I mean it hurts you (you will not need the ranks you invest in Survival, and old age is, well...also the alignment is incredibly restrictive)

Ah, yes. The old age is there for the reason that I liked the association with being on Death's door and yet still living (hence Unquenchable Flame of Life, Spirit Sense [which requires a near-death experience], and Tomb-tainted Soul). It gives a very specific feeling that I wanted.

Survival is there because you ARE a guide, and the alignment is because, if anyone is going to be ferrying the spirits of the dead, it should be an unaligned individual who is not necessary swayed by the battle of good and evil.


One other thing. Your description of a "souled" creature being anything with Int, Wis and Cha...well outsiders and intelligent undead have Int, Wis and Cha, but that doesn't give them souls.

Not in the traditional sense, no. But the outsider type makes it rather clear that they ARE their souls, in my interpretation. So I think it still qualifies. :smallbiggrin:

Hyooz
2011-09-10, 07:29 PM
Djinn is back! Yay!

... Oh no! Djinn is back! My chances of winning -> shot.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 08:08 PM
Djinn is back! Yay!

... Oh no! Djinn is back! My chances of winning -> shot.

Heh. Maybe not...this class is very strange. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I lost a contest.

...once...

...in the partner contest...

...when I submitted a level 40 Prestige class...

...and we only were 1 vote behind...

...so I'm beatable! :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-10, 08:18 PM
My gods, Djinn is back?

*Goes to see if the second impossible event occurs - Djinn Answers His Phone*

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 08:23 PM
My gods, Djinn is back?

*Goes to see if the second impossible event occurs - Djinn Answers His Phone*

Nah...that would be crazy. Also, I'm actually busy. :smallbiggrin:

TravelLog
2011-09-10, 08:32 PM
Hey welcome back Djinn!

Morph Bark
2011-09-10, 08:55 PM
Welcome back, Djinn!

Please spare me!


Heh. Maybe not...this class is very strange. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I lost a contest.

Links or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-10, 09:01 PM
Links or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7968378&postcount=6) and the Illustrious Ones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7969666&postcount=7) lost the very first partner contest.

Owrtho
2011-09-10, 09:12 PM
Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7968378&postcount=6) and the Illustrious Ones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7969666&postcount=7) lost the very first partner contest.

Your wording implies more partner contests have gone on since. Oddly enough, my entry this time steals ideas from what Kellus and I were working on for that contest. That said, I've often contemplated starting up monthly or bimonthly partner contests. I wonder if there'd be people interested.

Owrtho

Golden-Esque
2011-09-10, 09:18 PM
Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7968378&postcount=6) and the Illustrious Ones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7969666&postcount=7) lost the very first partner contest.

Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.

That contest also makes me laugh, personally, because I had never really read any part of the Tome of Magic before that contest xD.

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-10, 09:20 PM
Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.

Oh, don't you worry, Djinn and I will have our revenge. After all, we still have all the notes for our original idea, one which pits F.A.T.E. against Destiny.

*Maniacal laughter echoes through the thread*

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 09:23 PM
Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.

That contest also makes me laugh, personally, because I had never really read any part of the Tome of Magic before that contest xD.

Sort of glad we didn't win then, cause that contest, for me, was sort of "Derp. Let's see what crazy stuff I can get away with in this contest. EPIC GO!"

Golden-Esque
2011-09-10, 09:24 PM
Oh, don't you worry, Djinn and I will have our revenge. After all, we still have all the notes for our original idea, one which pits F.A.T.E. against Destiny.

*Maniacal laughter echoes through the thread*

Is ErrantX doing another partner contest? I was under the impression that he didn't like how complicated it got trying to pick entries towards the end, coupled with the fact that it kind of stinks to have to rely on someone else to get your entry in; I remember a lot of people complaining about that.

But yeah, if Xallace is still floating around the forums, I'm game for a rematch! >: D Would we doing Fate and Destiny vs. Gods and Vestiges again, lol?

Golden-Esque
2011-09-10, 09:26 PM
Sort of glad we didn't win then, cause that contest, for me, was sort of "Derp. Let's see what crazy stuff I can get away with in this contest. EPIC GO!"

Well, what happened for us is that we actually came up with the story, then build the Prestige Classes around that story. Personally, I used to do is come up with the mechanics I want to do first, then fill out a background to fit the mechanics. Having a story as inspiration was HUGE for our success, I think, and it's definitely a lesson I took from that contest in designing; things are ALWAYS stronger when there's a synergy correlation between fluff and mechanics.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-10, 09:29 PM
Having a story as inspiration was HUGE for our success, I think, and it's definitely a lesson I took from that contest in designing; things are ALWAYS stronger when there's a synergy correlation between fluff and mechanics.

Oh, I know. I don't think Gareth and I necessarily lost to bad flavor, although yours was definitely stronger...I honestly think we lost (in part...other entries were exceptional in that contest, and Gareth and I definitely weren't quite up to par) due to the fact that NO ONE, us included, knows how to judge class balance at that level, nor really knows what to do when presented with such a class. :smalltongue:

And, to be honest, it sort of felt good to lose. Helped show me that not all of my wins were based on just tradition and/or favoritism. :smallbiggrin:

ErrantX
2011-09-10, 10:58 PM
Is ErrantX doing another partner contest? I was under the impression that he didn't like how complicated it got trying to pick entries towards the end, coupled with the fact that it kind of stinks to have to rely on someone else to get your entry in; I remember a lot of people complaining about that.

But yeah, if Xallace is still floating around the forums, I'm game for a rematch! >: D Would we doing Fate and Destiny vs. Gods and Vestiges again, lol?

I'd do another one, if people wanted to do one. Hybrid Theory and Mono E Mono always struck me as happily repeatable ones, as the rest of its just plain open.

-X

Phosphate
2011-09-11, 06:23 AM
@Djin...then we agree to disagree I guess. Never felt like roleplaying flavor should limit the way you can play a class...

Morph Bark
2011-09-11, 08:24 AM
@Djin...then we agree to disagree I guess. Never felt like roleplaying flavor should limit the way you can play a class...

With base classes I agree, but with PrCs? Those are practically built on flavor.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 09:41 AM
With base classes I agree, but with PrCs? Those are practically built on flavor.

Yep. A Base class should be almost infinitely adaptable within the specifications of the class (and sometimes beyond, and conversely, in my homebrew philosophy, a PrC is a very specific and extremely character defining thing. When asked "what are you?", a member of a Prestige Class should, in my mind, answer that he is a member of that class.

As written, for example, a Wizard taking the Archmage class is, well...still a wizard. But a Binder taking, say, my Seidkona of the Iron Bands class would never merely call himself a Binder, since the PrC is designed to become (by its flavor) such a huge part of that character's identity.

But I'll agree to disagree. :smallbiggrin:

ErrantX
2011-09-11, 10:56 AM
I'm agreeing with Djinn as well. A fighter can call himself any number of things from a knight, swordsman, cavalier, armsman, guard, warder, etc. He's still a fighter, because fighter is the base of his abilities. Now if he were to prestige class into a class like Kensai(CW), he's going to universally call himself a Kensai, because that class defines him.

Base class provide a wide base that any number of concepts, themes, ideas, and backgrounds could spawn an amazing character. Prestige class is a defining and specialized class that redefines what that character is, he is no longer just a fighter or a wizard, he's now something more and something more special.

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 11:44 AM
Say, ErrantX? Any chance of getting a winner's list for each contest? 'cause I was trying to find the winners of past contests for the purposes of this post, and I found it EXTREMELY difficult: I had to actually Google the voting threads themselves. Hence why I didn't just use the most recent contests.

Actually, ErrantX, I'd even call the Kensai a poor example, as all the Kensai (the CW version...I'm not talking about the number of homebrew versions I know little of) really is is a superior fighter who specializes in a single weapon. That's easily within the confines of the Fighter base class.

My thoughts on the matter may be a bit extreme, but, looking at past winners of this contest, I think my theory is supported: The Etherjammer, the Goodwife, the Foregoer, the Onyxian Dreamer / Temple Waker, and (including some of my own which demonstrate the concept) the Seidkona of the Iron Bands, the Sybil of the Blinded Eye, and the Warden of the Hedge.

None of the classes mentioned can even really be approximated in terms of abilities and (more importantly) flavor. All of them not only further define a character (as the Kensai does), but they all redefine a character. You may be a Fighter who is, more specifically, a Kensai, but no Etherjammer would consider themselves a Shadowcaster who happens to be an Etherjammer, and no Warden of the Hedge would consider himself just a more specific Paladin.

In short, a PrC is strongest (in my mind, and apparently [judging by the votes and winners] in the mind of the community as a whole) when it is specific and completely redefines a character. That's what makes it Prestigious, as opposed to merely different.

Anyway, that's my little rant. Other people's mileage may vary. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-11, 12:15 PM
Likewise, strong flavor can sell a class even if the abilities are mechanically bland or uninspired, so strong flavor is clearly something (alongside balance) that we should be aspiring towards. I mean, like, my Children of the Mausoleum aren't as good as Druid 20. I daresay they're probably not even close. But a lot of folks fell in love with the flavor of it and I still get appreciative PMs to this day for causing that class to exist.

And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 12:16 PM
And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!

Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?

...right?

...I'm not hearing a yes here, Gareth.

:smalltongue:

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-11, 12:17 PM
Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?

Okay. You get to balance Sandman to T3.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHA!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 12:19 PM
Okay. You get to balance Sandman to T3.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHA!

...you horrible, horrible man.

Wait. You never said what tier scale we're using. Hmm...

Assuming the DM is Tier 1...

...damn. That doesn't work. The Sandman would STILL be something like T0.5, at least until the DM hit you with a book.

ErrantX
2011-09-11, 12:39 PM
By the way, Lord_Gareth?

I'm waiting for your entry. I mean it. You've been absent and its time to make your presence known :smalltongue:

-X

Lord_Gareth
2011-09-11, 01:16 PM
By the way, Lord_Gareth?

I'm waiting for your entry. I mean it. You've been absent and its time to make your presence known :smalltongue:

-X

And I am waiting for replies on Libram of Battle.

Spate
2011-09-11, 02:12 PM
Poo. I knew I should have posted my class earlier. Now I have to change it, as Djinn has beat me to the guide bit....

EDIT: He even has a lantern....oh well I'll post it anyways...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 02:14 PM
Poo. I knew I should have posted my class earlier. Now I have to change it, as Djinn has beat me to the guide bit....

Unless your class is specifically devoted to guiding spirits into the afterlife, and both thematically and mechanically almost identical to mine at that, it's more than fine to post it. :smallbiggrin:

I, for example, don't even READ the other classes before I start on mine, so any similarities are purely coincidental.

Spate
2011-09-11, 02:28 PM
Yeah, I wrote it entirely independently of you too. But I don't want someone to think I am copying anybody...

My class basically revolves around the Soulspark Familiar soulmeld. I always thought it was cool to have a bunch of soulstuff floating around you, but the soulmeld is kind of lackluster. I figured it would be perfect for the idea that came to mind when I first saw the PrC contest prompt.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 02:38 PM
Yeah, I wrote it entirely independently of you too. But I don't want someone to think I am copying anybody...

Our contest, and this forum in general, tends to assume someone is innocent of stealing ideas unless it can be proven otherwise, and we tend to trust people if they say they didn't. So no worries! Hell...we even base work on each other's stuff all the time. :smallbiggrin:

That, and, quite frankly, our classes are almost nothing alike, so I'm not even sure why you were concerned. :smalltongue:

Owrtho
2011-09-11, 02:41 PM
I'd also point out that my entry somewhat beats both on being a guiding light, though to be fair that's only because one of the base classes it's based on is almost exclusively that (and it does little to advance those abilities).


And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!


Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?

Well, I have been planning to try making a contest specifically for partner themes. If people are interested I could try starting it sometime soon.

Owrtho

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 02:42 PM
Well, I have been planning to try making a contest specifically for partner themes. If people are interested I could try starting it sometime soon.

Owrtho

I'd personally be very interested in such a thing. I know that, for this contest, I prefer to work alone, but a chance to produce things in tandem for a contest would be quite interesting to me. :smallbiggrin:

Morph Bark
2011-09-11, 02:43 PM
I, for example, don't even READ the other classes before I start on mine, so any similarities are purely coincidental.

When I first saw your class I nearly fell out of my chair from throwing my hands up so high due to the whole lantern theme that I also stuck to. xD

You executed it differently though, and the fluff is definitely tons different. (Though still very much compatible, which would be interesting to see on a character.) I like the uniquity of needing to be a certain age category too.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-11, 02:51 PM
When I first saw your class I nearly fell out of my chair from throwing my hands up so high due to the whole lantern theme that I also stuck to. xD

You executed it differently though, and the fluff is definitely tons different. (Though still very much compatible, which would be interesting to see on a character.) I like the uniquity of needing to be a certain age category too.

*goes to look at your class*

Wow. That's rather awesome. And yeah...a Raysailor of Sol Invictus seems like a rather interesting candidate to become a Twilight's Guide towards the end of his or her life. That would be an intriguing character...

ErrantX
2011-09-11, 05:24 PM
And I am waiting for replies on Libram of Battle.

Done. Now you have no excuse :P

-X

Hyooz
2011-09-12, 12:25 AM
Re: The PrC Flavor/Mechanics Discussion

I'm kind of in the middle of the whole thing. I think PrCs are a really useful tool for fitting either function, really. They're the best venue, IMO, for highly specialized flavor, as well as really unique mechanics that may not have the ubiquity to base a 20 level class on.

My general PrC design philosophy is to make classes that have their own unique flavor, but don't necessarily "rely" on it. I want to make it mechanically interesting and "set-apart" enough that the mechanics could show up on a variety of character types. I think the Ikaruga is actually a pretty decent example of this. A mechanical idea I really wanted to flesh out, attached to some light flavor that isn't entirely necessary for the class's function.

That's not to say I'm against flavor-heavy PrCs. The list Djinn quoted are some of my favorites from this contest's history (my own notwithstanding) and the voters really respond well to the excellent flavor they have. So... yeah. Call me Even Steven.

Glimbur
2011-09-12, 07:32 PM
I'll weigh in on the other side of the discussion then.

First, let me say that classes which marry fluff and crunch to make a distinctive and memorable whole are flipping awesome. When done well, it helps a character be memorable and fun as well.

That said, I think of classes as packages of abilities, which can get them mixed up with feats. Let's take the example of cheesy martial arts films for an example to clarify. If your master teaches you the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique, that's a feat. It's one discrete thing which not everyone with similar training to you has to be able to do. If your master teaches you the Mantis style instead of the Crane style, that's a different PrC because it makes you more focused on single, powerful strikes and ending combat quickly instead of avoiding and negating your opponent's attacks and winning through attrition. Mechanically, this means you gain sneak attack or some other bonus damage instead of evasion and dodge bonuses to AC and such. Different, thematically similar PrCs. (aside: I have no idea if that is a fair analysis of any Mantis style or any Crane style. It's a decent example though.)

There is one downfall to classes having flavor and mechanics linked, which is exemplified by the Spirit Lion Totem barbarian alternate class feature. Pounce is really, really helpful for mobility of melee characters, and far and away the easiest way to get it is via a one level dip in barb. This means, provided one wants to build a melee character who relies on full attacks, the most effective character will have some barbarian in his background. Refluffing exists: you could have hidden ferocity despite your city upbringing, it could be a secret technique taught to you by aesthetics who occasionally flip out and kill people, etc. But mechanically, that dip in barb is very good and not everyone likes refluffing like I do.

As I just shot myself in the foot by explaining, base classes are pretty flexible. Prestige Classes... I had an example earlier about different martial arts styles, which is kind of relevant here. But my deeper concern is choosing PrCs which have flavor for their mechanical merits due to a lack of other options to get such merits. Master of Many Forms is not guilty of this: it is a class about changing shape, and it makes you better at changing shape. For a list of the offenders, consider the X stat to Y thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). Want to be so tough that weapons don't hurt you? Deepwarden does it, but you have to be a dwarf with a specific kind of goal in life. Want to be so smart that you are hard to hit? Be a Blade Singer (elf), Eternal Blade (elf), Duelist (limits your combat style), factotoum (base class), or a couple of other also niche options. That's an ability that should just be a feat.

I also don't like strict entry requirements precisely because they require you to intend your character to enter the class. That's just a matter of taste though.

I appear to have weighed in on every discussion, rather than just one side of one of them. Such is life.

Morph Bark
2011-09-13, 06:23 PM
Added the final bits I needed and made slight tweaks to make the class more playable.


*goes to look at your class*

Wow. That's rather awesome. And yeah...a Raysailor of Sol Invictus seems like a rather interesting candidate to become a Twilight's Guide towards the end of his or her life. That would be an intriguing character...

Definitely. "Oh, yeah, I've sailed these stars for ages, but now as death approaches, I figured I'd aid the poor souls that soon will welcome me in their midst."

Owrtho
2011-09-21, 05:54 PM
I'd personally be very interested in such a thing. I know that, for this contest, I prefer to work alone, but a chance to produce things in tandem for a contest would be quite interesting to me. :smallbiggrin:

I threatened to do it if people were interested, you expressed interest, and I saw a lull in contest activity. Thus I present the Pairs Contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216168) for those here interested.

More on topic, anyone care to give some feedback for the Light of Lurking Shadows? Also, only about 2 weeks left for those who want to make changes, or have yet to submit their entries.

Owrtho

Morph Bark
2011-09-30, 08:59 AM
Bump for great justice? It seems the Contest has fallen too many pages back, causing it to go unnoticed and unclosed as of yet.

On a sidenote, I won't be able to post or vote in the coming three nights and days due to total absence (a matter which has occurred several times in the past weeks, but those times were usually only a day, two tops).

Xzoltar
2011-10-04, 05:50 AM
That was a contest I had fun working on and think it deserve a little more attention even if no new entry are coming. Maybe there's too many contest ongoing at the same time.

Phosphate
2011-10-06, 04:34 PM
Did this die or something?

Glimbur
2011-10-06, 05:33 PM
Did this die or something?

Most likely Errant got busy IRL, which happens sometimes. It has been long enough that someone could just put up a voting thread... I assume someone has PM'd him already.

Morph Bark
2011-10-07, 06:34 AM
Most likely Errant got busy IRL, which happens sometimes. It has been long enough that someone could just put up a voting thread... I assume someone has PM'd him already.

I've PM'd him last week and have not received a reply.

I've put up voting threads before, but that was only with confirmation from the contest-holder that is was okay, so I'm reluctant to do so now. I won't object if anyone else puts on up though.

ErrantX
2011-10-07, 06:34 AM
I will try to do something with this tonight, I promise. I've been working 60+ hour weeks at my job so I don't have time for anything lately. If someone wants to put up a voting thread and be willing to manage that today, that would be fine with me as well. Very sorry guys!

-X

Morph Bark
2011-10-07, 06:38 AM
Timing. xD

Don't worry, ErrantX, I at least forgive you. :smallwink:

Glimbur
2011-10-07, 03:23 PM
I will try to do something with this tonight, I promise. I've been working 60+ hour weeks at my job so I don't have time for anything lately. If someone wants to put up a voting thread and be willing to manage that today, that would be fine with me as well. Very sorry guys!

-X

No worries. The contest is pretty cool and all, but getting money so you can eat and stuff should probably be a higher priority.

Morph Bark
2011-10-17, 07:57 AM
Drat. I tried to find older voting threads so I could put up one myself, but I can't find them. They're also not linked in any of the contest threads, only the announcement of the winner.

NineThePuma
2011-10-17, 01:37 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212804

Fable Wright
2011-10-30, 08:27 AM
...So... next contest?

Morph Bark
2011-10-30, 10:55 AM
Thank you so much for bumping this thread, DMoD. I had lost my internet right in the week NineThePuma posted the link to an earlier voting thread and when I got it back I couldn't find the chat thread either and just decided to forget about it then. :smallfrown:

But seeing it back now, I have put up a voting thread! See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12126823#post12126823)!

Owrtho
2011-10-30, 04:03 PM
Dang, forgot I hadn't done the fluff sections at the end. That's rather annoying.

Owrtho

Morph Bark
2011-10-31, 04:08 AM
I myself specifically filled out those last few necessary parts a few days before the official end to avoid that. I think one of the other two disqualifiers intentionally withdrew, dunno about the last one.

Owrtho
2011-10-31, 08:49 PM
In my case, I'd thought I had already done them in the initial rush of completion, after which the only other thing unfinished was the features of light. Due to this and the lack of anyone mentioning they were black I completely overlooked needing to fill them in. Well, there's always next time.

Owrtho

Morph Bark
2011-11-01, 03:19 AM
I'm sure you'll manage to come up with something awesome. :smallsmile:

That being said though, we probably need to start thinking of potential themes. Perhaps "powering up", where it is based on abilities like rage, frenzy, ki frenzy, lycanthrope forms, etc. Basically a state that you stay in for limited time, but which makes you stronger.

Fable Wright
2011-11-01, 04:25 AM
I'm sure you'll manage to come up with something awesome. :smallsmile:

That being said though, we probably need to start thinking of potential themes. Perhaps "powering up", where it is based on abilities like rage, frenzy, ki frenzy, lycanthrope forms, etc. Basically a state that you stay in for limited time, but which makes you stronger.

I personally prefer Cursed as a theme- either a curse that you can tap into for power, breaking curses that others make, and so on, could be interesting.

Morph Bark
2011-11-01, 06:10 PM
In case I forget, can someone perhaps email me once the deadline on the voting thread has passed? I might miss it as I will need to deal with my grandmother getting hospitalized suddenly and want to help her out, or my mom who will likely spend most days there.

Additionally, I may not be on as much, but with me I never know in such situations.

ErrantX
2011-11-01, 08:55 PM
I apologize for my absence here. Between my employment situation increasing my hours from 45 to 55-60 due to tax season starting for me at my job, plus family health issues I've been very far from these halls, and I totally dropped the ball here. I suck, and I'm sorry. That being said, I'd still like to run the contests, but with my schedule (or lack thereof), its become more or less impossible.

If someone is willing to take over the contests or at the very least willing to co-run this with me when I have spare time, that'd be appreciated. I look to Morph Bark as he's really been awesome, but if someone else wants to step up and volunteer to at least help me run this through the holidays into next year, that would be incredible. PM me and we'll discuss..

-X

NineThePuma
2011-11-01, 09:14 PM
I suck, and I'm sorry.

BLATANT LIES.

:smallmad:

Life has you by the metaphorical throat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We can understand that there's a problem, and the contest will do its best to persevere. I think I can safely speak for all of us when I say that these contests are looked forward to.

Fable Wright
2011-11-02, 08:43 PM
Couldn't think of a better place to post this, so... Djinn, are you ever planning on finishing those Seiškona of the Iron Bands vestiges?

ErrantX
2011-11-04, 10:15 PM
New contest: Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221566).

Go.

I'll do my best to be more active, but I'm gonna rely on Morph Bark to help me field questions and such. I'll second his judgment.

-X

Amechra
2011-11-04, 10:49 PM
I am made sad that we cannot post old content as part of the competition; I have a really sexy "editing the past" PrC posted on these boards, somewhere...

Fable Wright
2011-11-05, 12:41 AM
I am made sad that we cannot post old content as part of the competition; I have a really sexy "editing the past" PrC posted on these boards, somewhere...

No, you can actually post it, I think... there was the question of that sometime ago. You just can't have had it in the contest before; if you already made it, it's fair game.

Owrtho
2011-11-05, 01:12 AM
No, you can actually post it, I think... there was the question of that sometime ago. You just can't have had it in the contest before; if you already made it, it's fair game.

This is incorrect. See rule 6.


6) Entries must be your own work, and must not be copied for other places. Only new work may submitted; no previously posted work will be accepted. Such entries will be disqualified. Such entries will be disqualified.

Owrtho

Fable Wright
2011-11-05, 01:24 AM
This is incorrect. See rule 6.

As I recall, the argument was that 'previously posted' implied previously posted in the contest. I may be misremembering, though.

NineThePuma
2011-11-05, 01:49 AM
Owrtho is right: the argument was over someone posting their work in a separate thread first, and as I recall, it's now considered improper to post it in a separate thread entirely.

Morph Bark
2011-11-05, 04:45 AM
Any previously posted content, whether posted in a previous contest or not, is inadmissable to the PrC Contest.

Furthermore, several times it has occurred that a PrC was posted first in the then-current contest and then outside of it before the voting was over (or before the thread had even been created). As I recall, while the Base Class Challenge at one time allowed this (though it has been retracted since), the PrC Contest does not.


I do feel sad for NeoSeraphi for making the Slowknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218211) and not being able to post it in this contest, but I'm sure it'll be a great inspiration (or hey, maybe I should poke him, see if he still has some ideas left over that he could enter).

Owrtho
2011-11-05, 05:33 AM
For some reason the current theme makes me have an urge to create a class based around invisible watches. By which I mean the provide buffs all around based upon what time their invisible watch says (things like "avoidance O'clock" granting reflex and AC bonuses). However, this seems rather silly of an idea, and may not be entirely in keeping with the intended theme for the contest.

Owrtho

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-11-05, 08:26 AM
Owrtho is right: the argument was over someone posting their work in a separate thread first, and as I recall, it's now considered improper to post it in a separate thread entirely.

Until after the contest, yes. After the contest you're free to post it elsewhere for critique, further comments, and so forth.

boomwolf
2011-11-05, 03:28 PM
ooo!
I've been meaning to do this for quite a while now, but I never got to it, so its technically perfectly legal!

Chrono Legionnaire here I go!

(it's pretty much a more ****-up and non-caster version of the swiftblade...but SERIOUSLY more ****ed up...)

NineThePuma
2011-11-05, 03:34 PM
(Note: I might actually do something for this)

Avalon®
2011-11-05, 04:09 PM
Interesting theme this time around. I think I've got something cooking for this.


Any previously posted content, whether posted in a previous contest or not, is inadmissable to the PrC Contest.

Furthermore, several times it has occurred that a PrC was posted first in the then-current contest and then outside of it before the voting was over (or before the thread had even been created). As I recall, while the Base Class Challenge at one time allowed this (though it has been retracted since), the PrC Contest does not.

This only concerns the PrC itself right? It does not concern fluff (organizations, enemies, etc.)?

NineThePuma
2011-11-05, 04:17 PM
I believe that both mechanics and fluff have to be new, but enemies and "the world" can be old. But I'm not X or M-B, so don't take my word as law.

Fable Wright
2011-11-05, 04:22 PM
Any previously posted content, whether posted in a previous contest or not, is inadmissable to the PrC Contest.

Furthermore, several times it has occurred that a PrC was posted first in the then-current contest and then outside of it before the voting was over (or before the thread had even been created). As I recall, while the Base Class Challenge at one time allowed this (though it has been retracted since), the PrC Contest does not.
My bad, then. I misremembered.

Also, reposting:

Couldn't think of a better place to post this, so... Djinn, are you ever planning on finishing those Seiškona of the Iron Bands vestiges?

boomwolf
2011-11-05, 04:57 PM
I believe that both mechanics and fluff have to be new, but enemies and "the world" can be old. But I'm not X or M-B, so don't take my word as law.

Do note that while the fluff and such must be new, there is no reason at all why it would not RELATE to a previous work you made, as long the relations are minor enough to justify two separate works. (for example an organization originally made for another class you made in the past could very well be the same organization for the contest class if it is reasonable for members of both classes to enter that organization, and that both classes are unique enough to be justified as separate classes and not "optional class feature" sort of thing...)




Couldn't think of a better place to post this, so... Djinn, are you ever planning on finishing those Seiškona of the Iron Bands vestiges?

I would have suggested to PM him about it...more effective then reposting in hopes he will run into this...