Help with 6th lvl Bard spells 3.5

[spiderfate]

im throwing togeather a Bard for a friend, this Character is a Paladin 2nd lvl, Bard 6th for the Tearing of the weave campaign. i never play spell casters and need help picking bard spells. can some one give me some advice? Thanks 1st and 2nd spells only so far.

the rest of the party is as follows
paladin of mystra 8th
paladin/cleric/Triadic knight of Torm 2/4/2
Mystic Ranger of Mystra 8th
Cleric of mystra 8th
rogue/illunionist 4/4

[SleepyBadger]

im throwing togeather a Bard for a friend, this Character is a Paladin 2nd lvl, Bard 6th for the Tearing of the weave campaign. i never play spell casters and need help picking bard spells. can some one give me some advice? Thanks 1st and 2nd spells only so far.

the rest of the party is as follows
paladin of mystra 8th
paladin/cleric/Triadic knight of Torm 2/4/2
Mystic Ranger of Mystra 8th
Cleric of mystra 8th
rogue/illunionist 4/4
Which resources are allowed?

[ericgrau]

Just from the Player's Handbook: feather fall, grease, glitterdust, heroism, invisibility, pyrotechnics, silence. Maybe summon monster I for trap triggering. Illusions aren't bad either but your party already has an illusionist. Note that pyrotechnics takes a bit of planning and silence takes good tactics. It's a good anti-caster spell and infiltration too, especially combined with invisibility. But it takes some thought; you often can't just pop something with it you may need clever positioning.

Get scrolls of remove X, delay poison, etc. for emergencies. You may want to communicate with the cleric to distribute these evenly so that both of you are ready to handle these problems.

[spiderfate]

Which resources are allowed?

PHB, spell compenium and all frgotten realm books.

[ericgrau]

Spell compendium: swift expeditious retreat, swift invisibility, inspirational boost, curse of impending blades, swift fly, tactical precision (if the party has a lot of melee), war cry

SC single target stat buff (don't get too many of this kind of spell, if any, and use only in buffing rounds): crabwalk
SC spell slot conservation (only if you tend to run out and can't fight well with a weapon): bonefiddle

Inspirational boost seems like the best one in a party full of martial classes. Assuming the ranger, cleric and/or rogue are melee then tactical precision is pretty nice too. The swift spells are crazy-good but eat up spell slots like candy so you can only get so many. On the flipside is bonefiddle which is pretty lousy but if you focus on casting and fights go long it can keep you from running out of spells. Like the Player's Handbook I noticed a bunch of highly situational scroll-worthy spells. The level 1 spells at least are cheap so you can load up on them for odd situations and emergencies.

[Cieyrin]

Spell compendium: swift expeditious retreat, swift invisibility, inspirational boost, curse of impending blades, swift fly, tactical precision (if the party has a lot of melee), war cry

SC single target stat buff (don't get too many of this kind of spell, if any, and use only in buffing rounds): crabwalk
SC spell slot conservation (only if you tend to run out and can't fight well with a weapon): bonefiddle

Inspirational boost seems like the best one in a party full of martial classes. Assuming the ranger, cleric and/or rogue are melee then tactical precision is pretty nice too. The swift spells are crazy-good but eat up spell slots like candy so you can only get so many. On the flipside is bonefiddle which is pretty lousy but if you focus on casting and fights go long it can keep you from running out of spells. Like the Player's Handbook I noticed a bunch of highly situational scroll-worthy spells. The level 1 spells at least are cheap so you can load up on them for odd situations and emergencies.

You forgot Improvisation, one of the most badass bard spells out there! Give yourself a pool of luck that you can divide up as you see fit on whatever d20 roll you feel like. There's a limit on how many points you can spend on any one roll but it's not a terribly restrictive limit, so it comes in handy in all kinds of situations, much like Good Hope does, which you won't have access to till next level, unfortunately. :smallfrown:

[SleepyBadger]

You forgot Improvisation, one of the most badass bard spells out there! Give yourself a pool of luck that you can divide up as you see fit on whatever d20 roll you feel like. There's a limit on how many points you can spend on any one roll but it's not a terribly restrictive limit, so it comes in handy in all kinds of situations, much like Good Hope does, which you won't have access to till next level, unfortunately. :smallfrown:
I agree :P Improvisation and Inspirational Boost are probably the best 1st lvl spells.

[ericgrau]

I did see improvisation but it seemed too situational to me. In combat like some other buffs it suffers from its standard action casting time, so you can only afford to have a couple such spells on your list (if only used for combat). Once he gets 3rd level spells and can afford a couple oddball out of combat 1st level spells then it seems like a good choice. That or maybe a scroll. caster level 10th scrolls are only 250 gp a pop. You can make a caster level check DC 1 + scroll caster level to cast scrolls higher than your own level, even.

[spiderfate]

ok stupid question, does Bonus spells from high ability work for spells known as well as spells per day???????

[HalfDragonCube]

ok stupid question, does Bonus spells from high ability work for spells known as well as spells per day???????

Not really, no.

[Cieyrin]

I did see improvisation but it seemed too situational to me. In combat like some other buffs it suffers from its standard action casting time, so you can only afford to have a couple such spells on your list (if only used for combat). Once he gets 3rd level spells and can afford a couple oddball out of combat 1st level spells then it seems like a good choice. That or maybe a scroll. caster level 10th scrolls are only 250 gp a pop. You can make a caster level check DC 1 + scroll caster level to cast scrolls higher than your own level, even.

Out of combat? It affects attack rolls, though not saves like I was thinking it did. It also works with skills, which can be the boost you need to get Knowledge Devotion to go off. I'm not seeing how you can't use Improvisation in combat.

[ericgrau]

Point was you're usually better off attacking 3 times than twice with a bonus, if he even devotes so many rounds to martial combat as a bard. More likely he has better things to cast instead of attacking so much in a typical 5 round combat. It's a so-so option until used for skills, and he doesn't have the spells known for a side-purpose like that yet. 1st level is still his 2nd highest spell level. Maybe next level or later he could grab it.

EDIT: Eh, I couldn't find the greatest 4th option for his 1st level spells. He could grab improvisation and use it situationally unless Forgotten Realms has something better, but most days I'd cast something else until he gets more spell slots to blow.

[Cieyrin]

Ironthunder Horn isn't bad for some light BC as well. Dump all those bastards on their asses with one standard action? Yes please! :smallbiggrin: