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View Full Version : How you view HP and how that effects your game (D&D but relates to all games)



Warlawk
2011-07-16, 07:10 PM
So one complaint I hear very often about D&D 4E is that healing surges are unrealistic and damage the gaming experience. While this is kind of what triggered my train of thought it is not specific to 4E and relates to most games in some way. That said, D&D is the game I play most often, and I've been with it from red box basic D&D back in the day so that is most commonly how I relate my gaming experience.

Now, in palladium games there are two stats to measure your toughness (I'm ignoring MDC for this discussion as it is a completely different sort of beast). This system has HP as well as a stat called SDC or Structural Damage Capacity. SDC represents scrapes, bruises, abrasions, minor cuts and things of that nature while Hit Points represent serious life threatening injury. While I have a strong distaste for the Palladium system in general, I think this is an excellent way of looking at things and tends to mesh very well with how our group describes HP damage in D&D as well as other games. Descriptions such as the following are all commonplace at our table and represent the accepted way to interpret injury.

You are not quite able to move completely out of the path of his strike, the sword skitters across the mail on your bicep coming to a ringing halt against the plate protecting your shoulder. It didn't penetrate your armor, but left a nasty bone deep bruise, take XX damage.

You catch the mace on your shield, but the angle is wrong. Your shield is battered out of position, the straps tearing painfully at your arm and nearly dislocating your shoulder, take XX damage.

You get your Staff of the BatmanWizard mostly in front of the blow, turning it away from the impending decapitation though the flat of the blade clips you with a glancing blow to the side of your head, take XX damage.

Your desperate parry forces the Supersneakyrogueninjaswordsage to pull his strike before he manages to stab you in the kidney, but he does manage to slash at your extended arm leaving a shallow cut on your forearm. The cut is painful, though mostly superficial, over time the blood loss could be problematic and you'll have to be careful not to let it run down your wrist and threaten your grip, take XX damage.

Those are the kind of things we would expect to hear when taking damage. In this context the system makes a lot of sense and some of the inconsistencies are dealt with. Healing Surges/Second Wind in 4E makes a lot more sense when you think of injury in these terms and some of the issues 3E has make a bit more sense as well. If 3E healing magic represents a magical healing that puts everything back where it should be and connects nerves and blood vessels again then you should be able to take a severed hand (as long as you're very quick about it) and press it back to the stump, then heal it. But you can't and there's no reason why except that healing spells don't do that, very specific spells are required for that sort of thing for no reason other than power balance. Using the above descriptions and thought process for HP damage neatly sidesteps that problem, it also meshes nicely with the Tome of Battle material where a common complaint is the availability of healing that is not outright magical.

Sometimes it is very gratifying to just outright behead someone or split them in half, that is generally reserved for Coup de Gras, one shot killing mooks and critical hits that invoke the Massive Damage rules or things of similar power. I'm just curious to see how other people tend to view this sort of thing within their own groups.

EDIT: I don't remember where I found this, as I've had it a long time but it relates.

You ever watched a good action movie? How about any of the Die Hard series?

In those movies, Bruce Willis gets hit with blows that should permanently cripple any real person.
He walks barefoot across broken glass; he gets hit by a car; etc. And yet he keeps getting up and going.
Give him enough time to rest, and he'll come at you full strength while still covered head to toes in
scrapes and bandaged wounds, 'cause he's an action hero.

To me, there's nothing in HP and HP recovery that implies that you are always dodging until the final blow.
Sometimes a blow pounds you into the dirt and leaves you looking like burger. Sometimes, you're just too
Bruce Willis to care.

Our groups tend to be a happy medium between the two concepts in this little story. We don't follow the 'dodging until you're out of HP' mentality, but tend to not go quite as far as being 'pounded into the dirt and left looking like hamburger'. Though our Superhero games do tend to stray more in that direction since we almost all usually play mutants and very much play up a superior metabolism as part of the basic mutant concept.

Mastikator
2011-07-16, 08:38 PM
HP means different things in different games, in D&D it means general well being, that is to say it doesn't mean anything specifically.

Personally I prefer to have a system for actual tissue damage that is seperate from other forms of damage, but in D&D it doesn't exist. Some try to introduce it with wound points, but then complain that his epic barbarian no longer survives being stabbed in the heart (lol).

I think that if you play D&D 3.5 E6 with wound points it might work since the game only breaks at the higher levels anyway.

Soylent Dave
2011-07-17, 12:42 PM
I'm not a fan of HP because it's a bit too abstracted for my taste (and I don't really like the trend towards invincibility it provides as characters move towards higher levels)

I much prefer Vitality / Wound systems - which give a more cinematic feel (as in the Die Hard example Warlawk gave) - for most of the session your characters dodge attacks, or suffer inconsequential damage (bruising or whathaveyou), until their luck / skill / hero shield runs down and then they start suffering actual wounds.

Continually increasing vitality as your character levels means that he can go into increasing amounts of danger and come out the other side (he gets more heroic) - but if critical hits inflict wounds as well then there's always a chance that your (super)heroic character can be taken down by a (un)lucky sword swing, or a headshot (or whatever).

Of course, that critical hit part is the exact reason a lot of people DON'T like vitality/wound systems; sometimes you don't want plebs and henchmen to have a chance of taking down your mighty hero.

I think it really depends what sort of 'realism' you want in your game - if you want PCs to feel properly heroic (like Conan) then HP is probably the way to go. I want more of a 'cinematic realism' feel to games - where PCs are better than the average bod because of greater skill or experience, but there's always a chance of a PC getting taken down by superior numbers, or just bad luck.

Immonen
2011-07-17, 05:03 PM
I don't use HP, honestly. It just seems too campy for the games I run. Yes, your hero ends up being Bruce Willis/ Conan, but it doesn't really work for horror games. I said Cthulhu just ate you, there shouldn't even be a remote chance that you survive. :smalltongue:

I always use a homebrew system. You have an extra save, the Health save. Basically, it's a Fortitude save with a bonus for extra HD/ levels. It works out a lot better IMO; you don't have to keep track of the goblin's puny little knife hit because it didn't do anything significant. Dragon puts a fang through your ribcage? You're unconscious at best, outright dead at worst.

In exchange for being less cheesy, the GM does have to put a bit more thought into describing a failed save, as opposed to letting the rules do it for him. Obviously, a failed save on aforementioned goblin shouldn't have the same effect as the aforementioned dragon.

Knaight
2011-07-17, 05:18 PM
If I'm using HP, its probably in GURPS. GURPS HP is consistently low enough that physical injury works fine as a representation, and is, in fact, suggested.

TheCountAlucard
2011-07-17, 05:53 PM
I prefer systems where HP doesn't scale. The good thing about such systems is that the PC doesn't suddenly become more resistant to stabbing after he ventures into the dungeons and such. The only downside to such games, however, is that as PCs get better and better equipment, combat often devolves into a game of rocket tag.

Coidzor
2011-07-17, 05:56 PM
It's an abstraction and thinking about it too much is a waste of my time that I can better spend thinking of things that amuse me or will be good when I finally write them out into a story or mechanic or poem or joke or what have you.

Unless the game system explicitly tells me what to do with HP, there's no incentive to doing more with it than what it is.

Jarawara
2011-07-17, 07:30 PM
"The Orc swings his battleaxe in a mighty arc, and beheads your warrior in one swing. Take 12 points of damage."

"Well, I had 14 hp, so I pick up my head and place it back on my neck. I swing back... I hit. Crap, only 4 hp damage."

"That was all the Orc had, so he is totally obliterated by your blow."



(no, not really, but sometimes D&D feels like this)

Ravens_cry
2011-07-17, 08:03 PM
It is an abstraction.
At different times, even in the same game, it can be best said to represent wounds, stamina, luck, plot armour, what have you.
But in the end it is abstraction of ones state of being alive to make things easier for the players and DM, like turn based initiative. Yes, if you think about it it screws with time and space in ways that boggle the brain. But it makes tracking everything easier.

Xefas
2011-07-17, 08:33 PM
I prefer games that don't use particularly granular "hit point" mechanics for measuring a character's well-being. Not because it's "unrealistic" or because of what it represents or whatever - that's all stuff that could vary wildly depending on the system itself. I don't like it because, in a roleplaying game, I honestly don't care whether my character has 195/236 hit points, or 194/236 hit points. It makes absolutely no difference in the story we're telling.

You never read a book that says something to the effect of "And lo, Odysseus was struck a mighty blow, and it did slightly injure him. And then he drew his blade and struck his foe for a mild injury. And then his foe doth retaliate with another blow that did slightly injure Odysseus again. And then Odysseus came back again and attempted to slightly injure his enemy, but failed to do so. And then..." Yeah, no, that's not very compelling. To tell a good story, you don't need to know every single attack and every single skin cell that gets hacked off both combatants. All I need to know is whether I'm fine, hurt, ****ing hurt, or dead. Much more granularity than that is wasted, in my opinion.

In a "roleplaying game", of course. A tactical fighting game, yeah, hit points are fine, whatever. But if I'm playing a tactical fighting game, it doesn't really matter what the hit points stand for, and I'm willing to slog through tedious fights because that's why I'm playing.

Games like Mouse Guard and Lady Blackbird do this pretty well with their scale of negative conditions (Angry, Tired, Injured, Hungry/Thirsty, etc), or stuff like Apocalypse World where the hit point track is the same for everyone and very small, with each "hit point" counting for a lot (IIRC, AW has something like 6 hit points for everyone, but getting shot in the face with a shotgun is 3 damage, getting hit full-on by a train is 5 damage, and so on).

That's good. I like that. It's very obvious that I'm either fine, hurt, badly hurt, screwed over, need to get the hell outta there, dying, or dead. Very conducive to translating into narrative terms, and I don't need to roll 35 attack rolls to chip away at someone. We're in, we're out, we roll a couple dice, the results of the battle get thrown down, it took 5 minutes, and we know everything we need to know to continue the story.

Tyndmyr
2011-07-17, 09:57 PM
In my games, hp represents damage, plain and simple.

Why can that 20th level fighter take a sword to the face by a lesser warrior and still live? Because he's just that badass, that's why.

Fiery Diamond
2011-07-18, 12:37 AM
In my games, hp represents damage, plain and simple.

Why can that 20th level fighter take a sword to the face by a lesser warrior and still live? Because he's just that badass, that's why.

That's how I usually run it, too. Complete with that example not being out of line. I happen to LIKE the "normally I would be dead" trope, aka "Anime durability"

supermonkeyjoe
2011-07-18, 05:06 AM
I think it varies from character to character, a crazy raging barbarian may be shrugging off potentially fatal blows, a troll will be happily swinging away while bits are lopped off and swords are stabbed through it, a dexterous rogue will be turning fatal wounds into minor scratches as he takes damage.

deuxhero
2011-07-18, 05:14 AM
I'm personally fine with characters being able to survive everything till their HP drops to 0 without a handwave in magic worlds (it's fine to think there are people who are just tough).

Tech Boy
2011-07-18, 11:27 AM
I find myself not worrying about HP to much, unless I get down to about 5. That's when I start paying attention, sometimes even lower, as I try to play a bit tactfully. It only really matters at that point, because I can't really risk myself in combat, especially if the cleric is stingy.

Outside of combat, I don't even glance at it.

Lapak
2011-07-18, 12:35 PM
I treat everything up until 0 HP as insignificant injuries - scratches, bruises, abrasions, minor punctures, and so on. People with a lot of hit points represent their ability to avoid the worst of a blow - you twist as the duelist stabs you and his blade skids off your rib rather than skewering you, you duck the actual blow of the giant's club by an inch but just the brush of it skidding past your shield leaves your muscles aching, and so on. Higher-level characters have reserves of energy and the ability to tough through an array of such minor injuries without slowing down, while a low-level character will be slowed down so much by the first flesh wound that the second shot takes him down.

The shot that takes you below 0 hits you cleanly - a thrust into the vitals, a blow that leaves your head spinning and eyes blurred, a blast of fire not quite dodged that throws you clean off your feet.

Zejety
2011-07-18, 01:04 PM
The German RPG DSA ("Das Schwarze Auge", "The Dark Eye") uses 2 additional resources on top of HP:

Stamina works similar to non-lethal damage in DND but is also consumed by certain actions (taxing spell casting, power attacks, ...). When doing exhausting things, you can quickly lose your stamina but it recovers after a few minutes of rest.

Very relevant are wounds. When you take more than X damage in one hit (X being related to your constitution), you take a wound. Every wound adds severe penalties and unless magically cured can only heal during an 8h rest.

It's not unusual that taking a powerful armed blow unprotected will leave you heavily wounded.

rayne_dragon
2011-07-18, 01:41 PM
I've always liked hp for being a simple abstraction of how healthy one currently is. It can get pretty weird sometimes, but that's why it's an abstraction. For most games it works quite (at least for lower levels if HP increases with level), but if I want a more realistic system I'd rather adopt some kind of wounds system like Ars Magica.

Decoy Lockbox
2011-07-18, 01:50 PM
Its a fairly strange abstraction. I run a 4e game, and until someone is bloodied I consider that all the hits before that have struck the armor, or caused bruising or something like that. Being bloodied is that moment when the first telling blow is struck, the you know you're in trouble.

I also run a GURPS game using precons, and keep the characters HP, as well as that of the opponents, artificially low in order to make the flintlock firearms in the game that much more deadly (I also rule that you drop unconscious at 0 hp, with no HT roll)

Sucrose
2011-07-18, 01:56 PM
HP as narrowly dodging or what have you just doesn't make a great deal of sense. A D&D Fighter can trivially survive the damage dealt by being immersed in magma. A D&D Fighter can jump off a cliff because it's faster than climbing, or survive re-entry from outer space. The rules reflect this, rather than any 'I'm not actually being hurt.'

That said, 4E's healing surges aren't inherently unrealistic, in my opinion. It just represents being unable to take as much punishment in one go as you can over the course of the day. In this context, even the Warlord makes sense, drawing out toughness that you already have, rather than somehow healing you with the magical power of shouting.

What seals the hit point part of the 4E system as unrealistic is that everywhere is a Final Fantasy Inn: you recover from all the injuries that you took (spent healing surges) with a single night's rest, even if you have no divine caster in the party.

Morghen
2011-07-18, 02:10 PM
For a long time I've operated under the theory that HP is an abstraction based on how good you are at surviving combat.

Fighters get beat up a lot. Their HP jumps up a bunch quicker than the bookish types.
Wizardy types don't have to be very tough when your training is mostly reading books. HP advancement is slow.

One of the thing I like about my theory is that it requires conscious effort to mitigate whatever damage is coming your way. To me, this explain how your sleeping 3K HP barbarian can be killed by a commoner with a dagger.

The system I'm most familiar with (HackMaster) uses a method that I've seen other places (though none of them spring to mind right now) that I like a lot. Unless specified by a called shot or a crit, any damage is applied to a generic "everywhere". If a specific location is hit, that spot can take X% of the HP total before becoming useless. For example (I'm making this up), my archer shoots a bad guy in the arm (despite the -4 to-hit) for 30% of his total HP. Bad guy drops whatever he was using with that arm and that arm is useless until healed.

Lapak
2011-07-18, 02:57 PM
HP as narrowly dodging or what have you just doesn't make a great deal of sense. A D&D Fighter can trivially survive the damage dealt by being immersed in magma. A D&D Fighter can jump off a cliff because it's faster than climbing, or survive re-entry from outer space. The rules reflect this, rather than any 'I'm not actually being hurt.'That depends on the ruleset and how you've adjusted it. This isn't a 3.5-by-RAW thread, after all, it's a how-does-your-view-of-HP-affect-your-game thread. To clarify how it does affect them: in the games I'm running, immersion in lava will kill you. Someone slitting your throat while you're asleep or helpless will kill you. Any such thing that bypasses any hope of avoidance or mitigation will kill you, and bypasses Hit Points just as surely as a Finger of Death will. Falls are more negotiable, since luck factors in as well and people have survived absurd drops before; in that case it's going to be a 'skidding off the cliff face, slowing down as you grab at the walls and break off chunks, etc.' kind of deal.

randomhero00
2011-07-18, 03:09 PM
I consider HPs a combo of healthiness, luck, endurance, and speed.

Mostly endurance and speed. So a second wind for instance is more about getting a surge of adrenaline than it is about actually healing flesh.

I really don't consider having taken any health/flesh/blood loss at all until half HPs (hence the term bloodied, its first blood at half HPs). And I wouldn't consider it a serious wound until your down to 1/5 hps or so.

So as far as what someone would look like (IRL) at a quarter HPs, they'd have some blood on them, but nothing that would make them bleed to death, and basically look really really tired. Its not till you go below a 5th that you'd need to go to the hospital.

Lord_Gareth
2011-07-18, 09:58 PM
Try this for a joke campaign - each hit point is actually a gallon of blood, except for when you go into negatives, at which point it becomes a pound of splintered bone mass. Even for nonlethal damage.

Yukitsu
2011-07-18, 10:07 PM
I view it as pure toughness and sheer grit, so I don't have to think about things like a person "dodging" to lose HP, but also surviving a 500 foot fall. I also see nothing incoherent about someone surviving a LAW rocket to the face and fighting through it.

Remmirath
2011-07-18, 10:37 PM
I usually think of HP as being straight damage taken, but also that there's some element of scaling to it. I assume that a blow reducing someone with 25 hit points to 15 hit points is as punishing as a blow reducing someone with 2500 hit points to 1500 hit points, and since everything in D&D tends to scale along with your characters it mostly works.

It does break down if you have a fight where one opponent is significantly higher level than the other, but then I do start to assume that the lower level one just wasn't experienced enough to get out of the way in time and things like that.

HP acquired by items directly or by a magically boosted constitution I see as being unnaturally tough and able to resist blows that would fell a normal creature.

I don't normally think of it much while actually playing, to be honest - so it doesn't really effect my game.

Cerlis
2011-07-20, 09:43 AM
"The Orc swings his battleaxe in a mighty arc, and beheads your warrior in one swing. Take 12 points of damage."

"Well, I had 14 hp, so I pick up my head and place it back on my neck. I swing back... I hit. Crap, only 4 hp damage."

"That was all the Orc had, so he is totally obliterated by your blow."



(no, not really, but sometimes D&D feels like this)


Thats why i describer what happened to the defender after i find out if it hit, how much dmg it did, and the state of the person afterwards

Narren
2011-07-20, 11:55 AM
That depends on the ruleset and how you've adjusted it. This isn't a 3.5-by-RAW thread, after all, it's a how-does-your-view-of-HP-affect-your-game thread. To clarify how it does affect them: in the games I'm running, immersion in lava will kill you. Someone slitting your throat while you're asleep or helpless will kill you. Any such thing that bypasses any hope of avoidance or mitigation will kill you, and bypasses Hit Points just as surely as a Finger of Death will. Falls are more negotiable, since luck factors in as well and people have survived absurd drops before; in that case it's going to be a 'skidding off the cliff face, slowing down as you grab at the walls and break off chunks, etc.' kind of deal.

I've known people that have shot in the head/face and lived. I know a guy who matched your example...his throat was slit in his sleep. He woke up and beat his attacker to death with a bat. He lived. I even heard of (can't remember where) a little girl who had her throat slit by some scumbag, and lived to tell about it.

These things CAN happen to regular people in real life, even if it's very unlikely. But we're not talking about regular people in real life. The PC's are usually a cut above the rest. A 20th level barbarian should be able to take damage that would obliterate most people. Because he's NOT most people. He's one of the toughest humanoids in a world of fantasy.

Yora
2011-07-20, 12:08 PM
I treat hp as the limit of exertion a characters body can take before he collapses. A hit with a weapon doesn't neccessarily mean a severe injury. A nick of a dagger here, the shaft of a mace glancing of the helmet there, but it's mostly bruises and scratches. But as long as yu still have hp left, you're not actually dangerously injured.

Tyndmyr
2011-07-20, 12:29 PM
I treat hp as the limit of exertion a characters body can take before he collapses. A hit with a weapon doesn't neccessarily mean a severe injury. A nick of a dagger here, the shaft of a mace glancing of the helmet there, but it's mostly bruises and scratches. But as long as yu still have hp left, you're not actually dangerously injured.

How does this work with say, fall damage? Or being set on fire?

Merely exertion from falling onto broken glass and being set on fire?

Yora
2011-07-20, 12:50 PM
Well, you twisted an ankle, cracked some ribs, and stuff like that. Nothing that will kill you, but it contributes to wearing you down. It's best to not go too deep into the details, or about every single aspect of D&D falls appart.

Roderick_BR
2011-07-21, 12:51 PM
I prefer systems where HP doesn't scale. The good thing about such systems is that the PC doesn't suddenly become more resistant to stabbing after he ventures into the dungeons and such. The only downside to such games, however, is that as PCs get better and better equipment, combat often devolves into a game of rocket tag.

If survival depends on gear, you could use armor as RD and even as HP, as a sort of ablative armor. Say, you get into a fight with a monster, takes some hits, the RD soaks some, the rest is taken by your armor with a small ammount reaching through you. By the end of the day as your party applies healing salves, potions, and spells, you also need to fix your armor, "recoving" it's HP.


Back to the OP: Healing surge, like a lot of things in 4E, can be directly traced back to 3.x. Here is the HS's father: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/reservePoints.htm
Probably the basis for Tome of Battle's HP recovery maneuvers as well.

I see HP as both a health system, and an stamina system. While you still have some endurance, you can survive blows that would otherwise be fatal. A knife stabing or arrow often kills a normal person, yet you see heroes in stories being hit by dozens of sword slashes and several arrows embebed in their bodies, and they still manage to stay up and functioning, even if at a reduced pace.

So, yeah, everything there already exists in previous D&D versions, AND exists in media. People nitpick on stuff because they don't like the system at all.

As for the beheading orc example: He either had a vorpal sword (and instakilled the fighter), or the DM needs to be sure the orc dealt enough damage to take him to -10 in one blow before claiming his head was cut off.
Yes, I do that in my games. If the damage is awesome enough, I describe the death being very messy than just wearing someone to death with Mosquito Bites (that's a feat, btw)

drack
2011-07-21, 02:39 PM
You never read a book that says something to the effect of "And lo, Odysseus was struck a mighty blow, and it did slightly injure him. And then he drew his blade and struck his foe for a mild injury. And then his foe doth retaliate with another blow that did slightly injure Odysseus again. And then Odysseus came back again and attempted to slightly injure his enemy, but failed to do so. And then..."

But does it ever differentiate between a mighty venom that lets Thor take nine steps back after the encounter before falling lifeless to the ground, or that mighty blow the like of which you could not survive again that causes you to end it quickly, or the series of light scratches that they endured through barely parrying the lightening swift blows? :smallconfused:


...but then complain that his epic barbarian no longer survives being stabbed in the heart (lol)....
well I chalk it up to that at epic you have serious battle smarts. That blow's going to your heart, you instinctively shift your weight to make it miss slightly, you're more accustomed to blows. Back when you were a kid IRL a splinter or the tiniest of scrapes were probably the bane to your existence. Nowadays you'd probably reel and cry out from an unexpected blow to the face, but if you start boxing you're likely to get over it (to an extent). Once you've lain dying on the battlefield a few times for days on end a little bloke hacking at your huge well muscled arms with that little toothpick it calls a sword is nothing new.

Even a wizard who's been on the battlefield a while will get more used to it, or maybe just have more willpower to push on.

Also just on an abstract note I'm sure we've all jumped down rather than using the stairs before, I even had a friend who would chill on their roof and always jump down to save time :smalltongue: to take the lava example some lava is cool enough that stepping on it with your shoe will solidify it.

I do HP as your ability to will your body to keep moving. Once I was DMing a epic 3.5 lich who was being assaulted by level 5 fighters with long swords. He lifts his face to the sky and laughs that their hits don't pierce his DR. I tell him OOC "yes, they can't touch your immortal spirit, but pointy swords can vary easily harm your earthly vessel, and without exceeding your DR I'm sure they can hack said earthly vessel into little cubes, and I doubt the digestive track of scavengers would exceed your DR either. I guess you'll live forever. They quickly got to fighting for their life. :smallamused:

Partysan
2011-07-21, 02:52 PM
In D&D I just turn my Suspension of Disbelieve up to eleven.

My own systems use wounds (which you have, like, 2 of on average) and and endurace (which is also depleted by blocking, just not as much as by being hit). There isn't any damage roll, the endurance losses are static, rolls are only made on successful hits to determine wether a wound is inflicted and if you are unarmored that chance is pretty frickin' high.
Yes, I know. Just don't get hit.

Old_Nemrod
2011-07-21, 07:58 PM
It seems the problem with HP lies with the players' enjoyment. They have no fear when they can see their health and guess what they can or cannot take and how to plan their moves. This also denies them the satisfaction of coming out of a battle, barely surviving, and possibly victorious.

What if the GM just kept track of the players' HP? The GM does the HD rolls on levels and subtracts damage from attacks. He can then narrate on the condition the player is in. Maybe they could give more detail every X health that is lost?

The players can know the average toughness for their character, but, like most people, not know to the point how far they can push themselves.

Just an idea.

drack
2011-07-21, 08:09 PM
that may serve such purposes better, and admittedly most don't know their HP, but it's more work for the DM, and it also affects how the players gauge their healing spells. On another note I feel my players can be relieved at surviving with their skins often enough... :smallamused:

PhallicWarrior
2011-07-24, 12:18 AM
I love 4th Edition's "Bloodied" state. Simple enough. I generally play it as "Once your PC/monster/whatever is down to half HP or less, the attacks start to tell. Exactly how they tell is up to the player and the GM.
The nimble rogue, who has thus far effortlessly bent and swayed just out of reach of the enemy swordsman's blade takes a gash across the cheek, spilling her blood for the first time this battle. The Warforged finds its internal components starting to work loose from the constant pummeling of the cave troll, and it knows instinctively that it cannot maintain this level of damage absorption for too much longer.
Likewise, different healing surge triggers represent different things. A warlord grabs the attention of his ally, reminds him what's at stake, and recalls past victories when they kept going despite the pain. A cleric prays to her god and her friend's injuries undo themselves before their very eyes. An artificer's infusion relubricates a Warforged's jammed and damaged vital systems, and it marches dutifully back to the front line, undaunted by the pieces of itself already littering the floor.