Ranged Power attack

[hobbitkniver]

I know that Power attack cannot be used on bows, but is there any alternative? I need a feat/enchantment or anything else that sacrifices to hit for damage.

[Pentachoron]

I know that Power attack cannot be used on bows, but is there any alternative? I need a feat/enchantment or anything else that sacrifices to hit for damage.

There's Hanks Bow from the Animated Series Handbook, it allows power shots which are effectively the same. You could see if your DM will allow you to use it.

[IthroZada]

I know that Power attack cannot be used on bows, but is there any alternative? I need a feat/enchantment or anything else that sacrifices to hit for damage.

Pathfinder's Deadly Aim feat, or Hank's Energy Bow (magic item).

Edit: I come bearing sources!
Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a)
Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)

[hobbitkniver]

Pathfinder's Deadly Aim feat, or Hank's Energy Bow (magic item).

Edit: I come bearing sources!
Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a)
Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat)

Hmm well I don't play pathfinder and I already have a crazy powerful bow homebrewed by the DM just for me. I don't feel like that feat would be crazy powerful or anything, but it's not the RAW and could piss people off.

[noparlpf]

There might be a feat somewhere called Well-Practiced Aim that lets you use Power Attack at a range for a bonus of +2 damage for every -1 penalty to your attack roll, up to you BaB. I didn't write it down, but I'm assuming that's limited to within 30 feet. I used it for a ranged weapon style Ranger once.

To be honest, it might have been from somewhere online, which could be why I can't find it in any of my books. So it might be homebrew. It does seem slightly OP with the +2 damage for -1 on the attack roll thing.

Either way, if there isn't a legit way to do it, you could just homebrew a feat that lets you use Power Attack at a range of up to 30 feet and have Power Attack and Point-Blank Shot as prerequisites. I wouldn't include the +2/-1 clause, though.

[Coidzor]

To be honest, it might have been from somewhere online, which could be why I can't find it in any of my books. So it might be homebrew. It does seem slightly OP with the +2 damage for -1 on the attack roll thing.

You are familiar with how power attacking with a two-handed weapon works, correct? :smallconfused:

[Funkyodor]

You could always homebrew up a feat that does something similar. It could be more accuracy related. Actually name it Pin-point Accuracy, require a +1 BaB and Point Blank Shot. Have it do something like, for every one point you exceed a targets AC, then you do +2 damage. Also have it not work on creatures immune to critical hits and only work within Point Blank Shot range you've got a decent restriction. Pretty powerful and scales with level.

[noparlpf]

You are familiar with how power attacking with a two-handed weapon works, correct? :smallconfused:

Yeah. But should a bow really count as a two-handed weapon for Power Attack? You can only pull on the string with two hands if you're a Raptoran with a footbow (or whatever they call those). The hand holding the bow doesn't put that much power into the pull.

[Coidzor]

Yeah. But should a bow really count as a two-handed weapon for Power Attack? You can only pull on the string with two hands if you're a Raptoran with a footbow (or whatever they call those). The hand holding the bow doesn't put that much power into the pull.

That's not at issue here. What's at issue here is you thinking that it's Over Powered. When Power Attack does that out of the box and has so many ways to get multipliers it's not funny, whereas this technique would have no access to such multipliers.

[noparlpf]

That's not at issue here. What's at issue here is you thinking that it's Over Powered. When Power Attack does that out of the box and has so many ways to get multipliers it's not funny, whereas this technique would have no access to such multipliers.

I guess so. I actually hadn't thought of the two-handed Power Attack rules when I posted; I usually don't use two-handed weapons. Come to think of it, I don't often use Power Attack. I haven't played enough melee characters.

I found the feat I mentioned on one of the wikis: Well-Practiced Aim (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Well_Practiced_Aim_%283.5e_Feat%29).
The bonus scales with the type of bow you're using. I forgot about that. It's not under the homebrew section, but that doesn't really mean anything; it's on a wiki. I don't think that's where I originally found it, though.

[HunterOfJello]

Bloodstorm Blade using a throwing weapon

[Tsuzurao]

I guess so. I actually hadn't thought of the two-handed Power Attack rules when I posted; I usually don't use two-handed weapons. Come to think of it, I don't often use Power Attack. I haven't played enough melee characters.

I found the feat I mentioned on one of the wikis: Well-Practiced Aim (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Well_Practiced_Aim_%283.5e_Feat%29).
The bonus scales with the type of bow you're using. I forgot about that. It's not under the homebrew section, but that doesn't really mean anything; it's on a wiki. I don't think that's where I originally found it, though.

That is a homebrew. On dandwiki.com, the non-homebrew stuff starts with SRD:___ (for the Standard Reference Document, which contains most of what's in the three core books, and the XPH) or UA:___ (this being for Unearthed Arcana variant rules).

EDIT: There is a Power Throw feat in Complete Adventurer, but other than Hank's Bow, I can't think of an equivalent for archery.

[tyckspoon]

I found the feat I mentioned on one of the wikis: Well-Practiced Aim (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Well_Practiced_Aim_%283.5e_Feat%29).
The bonus scales with the type of bow you're using. I forgot about that. It's not under the homebrew section, but that doesn't really mean anything; it's on a wiki. I don't think that's where I originally found it, though.

I suspect it actually is unlabeled homebrew, because it's unsourced and more damagingly, if it was in anything normally considered a 'legitimate' (ie, any Wizards-published book and even Dragon magazines) source you'd see it mentioned far more often, because 'how do I make a good archer' is a pretty common topic.

[noparlpf]

Thanks. I had assumed it was when I couldn't find it in any of my books. Though I'm still fairly sure I saw it online somewhere else.

That kind of homebrew is still an option. On the other hand, I think WotC decided not to allow ranged Power Attack because it doesn't make much sense conceptually. Heck, you need a special kind of bow to even add your Str modifier to damage rolls. How do you swing harder when you're firing a bow? Because that's what Power Attacking is. You swing harder (causing more damage), which makes it harder to aim (reducing the attack roll).

[hobbitkniver]

That is a homebrew. On dandwiki.com, the non-homebrew stuff starts with SRD:___ (for the Standard Reference Document, which contains most of what's in the three core books, and the XPH) or UA:___ (this being for Unearthed Arcana variant rules).

EDIT: There is a Power Throw feat in Complete Adventurer, but other than Hank's Bow, I can't think of an equivalent for archery.

Too bad, thats exactly what I needed.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah. But should a bow really count as a two-handed weapon for Power Attack? You can only pull on the string with two hands if you're a Raptoran with a footbow (or whatever they call those). The hand holding the bow doesn't put that much power into the pull.
With power attack with a melee weapon ,you are sacrificing accuracy for power. At range, I imagine you are trying to hit smaller, less protected, but more vulnerable spots. I agree the Strength thing is an issue, which is why I would use Deadly Aim.

[noparlpf]

Can you get your DM to let you homebrew a feat? That's probably the best way. But it would have to be more precision-based than Power Attack-based. Power Attack doesn't fit conceptually.
Because it's precision-based, you can't really reduce your attack modifier, so you'd probably end up reducing the number of attacks you get per round. Have it be something like a full-round action to make a single attack at your full BaB against your target's normal AC, but you roll for damage as if it were a critical hit even if it isn't. If it does crit, you don't multiply the extra damage, just the base damage, like with Sneak Attack.
Another idea is to make a feat Ranged Power Attack that works like Power Attack within 30 feet of you and have it have Precise Shot and Point-Blank Shot as prerequisites, or something similar.

Apparently since I finished typing this there's been another post. One moment while I read it.

Deadly Aim looks decent, but I'd make it optional to reduce your attack by each -1 instead of making it automatically a -2 when your BaB is +8. It's also still not quite as good as Power Attack, but that's because it works at a range.

[Spiryt]

How do you swing harder when you're firing a bow? Because that's what Power Attacking is. You swing harder (causing more damage), which makes it harder to aim (reducing the attack roll).

You pull bow to the very end of a safe draw, and attempt as smooth loose as you can.

Which obviously is taxing on fingers, accuracy etc.

Or any other explanation imagination can bring, dunno why people are so keen on explanations in such completely abstract system like 3.5. :smallwink:

[noparlpf]

You pull bow to the very end of a safe draw, and attempt as smooth loose as you can.

Which obviously is taxing on fingers, accuracy etc.

Or any other explanation imagination can bring, dunno why people are so keen on explanations in such completely abstract system like 3.5. :smallwink:

I like things to make sense. Besides, why would pulling it back that far let you Power Attack but not let you add your Str modifier to damage rolls?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I like things to make sense. Besides, why would pulling it back that far let you Power Attack but not let you add your Str modifier to damage rolls?

Because there are limitations in the bow? Really, DND does not make sense. If you want it to make sense, then you can come up with whatever works for your group, but don't expect it to make sense out of the box. Just... no.

[hobbitkniver]

If I wanted it to be real, I'd play a human fighter and make everyone else do the same.

[WinWin]

Peerless Archer from Silver Marches gains the Power Shot ability at level 3.

[noparlpf]

If I wanted it to be real, I'd play a human fighter and make everyone else do the same.

I didn't say I want it to be real, I said I like things to make sense. Besides, there could also be human barbarians, rogues, rangers, monks, etc. I personally probably have most of the class features of a second or third level barbarian. And I know a guy with half of the monk class features.

[IthroZada]

It makes much more sense if you just take the Pathfinder view. You aren't pulling the bow back harder, it's that you are aiming for a particularly vulnerable spot, and have more chance of fouling it up. Sort of how headshots in video games, while good, give you a greater chance to mess up and miss entirely.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, I think the power attacking mechanic (reduce accuracy, get more damage) with a bow "makes sense" if you think of it is as trying to hit a smaller target (the head, a join in armour) that, if you succeed, will do more damage. Just take away the strength bonus and you got something that, to me at least, "makes sense" within a combat model as abstract as D&D.

[noparlpf]

It makes much more sense if you just take the Pathfinder view. You aren't pulling the bow back harder, it's that you are aiming for a particularly vulnerable spot, and have more chance of fouling it up. Sort of how headshots in video games, while good, give you a greater chance to mess up and miss entirely.

That's why I said it should be precision-based.

[Revenance]

I guess the question is, what if you are facing a creature whose anatomy/weak spots you don't know of or hard to discern, such as an ooze. Wouldn't that be hard to justify?

[tyckspoon]

I guess the question is, what if you are facing a creature whose anatomy/weak spots you don't know of or hard to discern, such as an ooze. Wouldn't that be hard to justify?

If your sense of verisimilitude demands that it be precision damage, then yes, it would share that problem with all the other kinds of precision damage. Game balance would however demand that it either not be precision or that it receive some additional benefit, because Power Attack doesn't have to deal with that crap. It might work out better as a weapon property, eg:
Elastic
Price: +2
(Bows only)
An Elastic bow always allows its wielder to use his full Strength modifier as if it were an appropriate Composite bow. Additionally, a wielder may over-pull the bow, allowing him to impart more energy to his arrows at the expense of accuracy as the bow exceeds his ability to control. *insert appropriately modified Power Attack text here.*

[big teej]

I've never had a problem ruling that Power attack/shot worked with a Bow.