need a 2nd lvl spell suggestion.... [3.5]

[sambo.]

yo;

i'm playing a gnome (g)noctumancer in a 3.5ed pbp. just got level seven, so that's Sorc1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer3 (i was allowed precocious apprentice cheese for the pre-reqs). due to expenditure of feats on Practiced Spellcaster, i have 7/7 caster level.

so, i get a second level spell known. my current is Glitterdust. i have Flicker and Killing Shadows lvl3 mysteries.

i'm hoping there's a Fort or Reflex save ability damage spell. i'm not a ranged touch-attack specialist by any means.

i'm shooting for an anti-caster, counterspeller type.

Mirror Image is my 'knee jerk' choice of spell. i was contemplating Slapping Hand.

i'm also thinking i've missed something.

suggestions from the playground welcomed!

[Urpriest]

Well for one, you missed the 3.5 subforum, where this would get a lot more attention.

[Acero]

What school?

In Abjuration,Protection from Arrows is always good. and Obscure Ocject can come in handy against being stalked by wizards.

Glitterdust is already your conjugation option.

if you want a Divination, Detect Thoughts can save your bacon.

Enchantment has Touch of Idiocy, which ruins casters pretty quickly (1d6 stat damage to INT, WIS, and CHA) Daze Monster also.

A good blaast Evocation is Scorching Ray, a personal favorite. Gust of Wind and Darkness have situational purposes.

All level 2 Illusions can come in handy.

I love Transmutation. Alter Self, Levitate, Rope Trick, Spider Climb and Pyrotechnics are excellent choices. Whispering Wind, while useful, might not work with a multiclass.


Hope that helps. 2nd level spells are when you start getting real options. :smallbiggrin:

[erikun]

Scorching Ray is pretty good at dealing damage, which can sometimes be the best way to stop a caster (both in Concentration DC and making them dead faster). Web is a reflex-save area control; Blindness/Deafness targets fortitude (but is only one target).

There are also utility spells: Protection from Arrows, Invisibility, and others.

[Keld Denar]

Kelgore's Grave Mist or Cloud of Bewilderment. KGM is in PHBII, and CoB is probably in SpC. KGM is essentially a save vs partial effect, and Cloud of Bewilderment is a mini Stinking Cloud that's a level lower.

Both VERY solid disables at 2nd level.

[nyjastul69]

Knock is an excellent 2nd level utility spell. I don't know what a noctumancer is, but if it allows you to select Knock you probably should.

[Keld Denar]

Eh, Knock is something better to have on a scroll, or better yet, to have on a rogue (Open Locks skill), or a barbarian (adamantine weapon + door = tunnel). He'll only have 2 2nd level spells, best to get things that have the maximum versatility.

A decent suggestion might be See Invisible, probably not now, but soon. It couples nicely with Glitterdust, as you can see your foe to target them and light them up, then your party can jump on the sparkly foe and kill them to death as quickly as possible.

[ericgrau]

combat: web
long buff: false life, see invisibility
short buff: mirror image
misc: invisibility

You can cast 4th level spells but need a 2nd level spell, so you probably don't need another combat spell. OTOH web can black caster line of effect. False life jumps out as the best option as its an hour buff; you can even empower it. But it's not anti-caster. See invisibility is kind-of anti-caster but depending on your DM it may be a bit early. If it's rarely used you should get a scroll instead. Invisibility has a variety of uses. Mirror image is ok but you shouldn't prepare too many short buffs b/c you don't always get a buffing round before combat, and during combat you could be doing something offensive instead.

I agree that utility spells should go on scrolls.

Readying a magic missile, possibly empowered, may be the simplest way to disrupt a caster. Rays are nice too but pesky casters tend to hide behind the cover of allies so your, what, +5 to hit isn't that reliable against his 16 touch AC after cover.

[nyjastul69]

Eh, Knock is something better to have on a scroll, or better yet, to have on a rogue (Open Locks skill), or a barbarian (adamantine weapon + door = tunnel). He'll only have 2 2nd level spells, best to get things that have the maximum versatility.

A decent suggestion might be See Invisible, probably not now, but soon. It couples nicely with Glitterdust, as you can see your foe to target them and light them up, then your party can jump on the sparkly foe and kill them to death as quickly as possible.

Sorry, my bad. I glossed over the class combos. Spontaneous casters should not take Knock. It's not optimal. I was thinking excellent 2nd level spells when I posted.

There is nothing to see here... move along... move along...

[ericgrau]

Well, not prepared casters either at this level, except to write on scrolls. They have less spells to waste. Unless somehow the dungeon has The Dungeon of Ye Locked Doors plastered in front so you know what to prepare. It's not even like resist energy and a volcano, you rarely know until you face the door itself.

[olentu]

So if I read that correctly you want a spell that deal ability damage and has a fort or reflex save.

Off the top of my head there is shadow spray. Sorc/wiz 2 that deals strength damage with a fort save I think it also dazes. From the spell compendium as I recall.

[nyjastul69]

Well, not prepared casters either at this level, except to write on scrolls. They have less spells to waste. Unless somehow the dungeon has The Dungeon of Ye Locked Doors plastered in front so you know what to prepare. It's not even like resist energy and a volcano, you rarely know until you face the door itself.

Unlocking doors is one aspect of the spell. Opening the doors is a more important element of the spell in many ways. It's not necessarilly limited to door locks. Loosening welds, shackles and chains is a good bit better than you imply.

That being said, almost all utility spells are better served residing in scrolls or wands. While not the the single most optimal spell, it's still pretty frickin' good.

[Psyren]

Depending on your fundamentals, invisibility can be very useful; because they are supernatural, you can use them without making a motion or sound, rendering you totally undetectable. Turn out the lights with Black Candle so the party can sneak by. Or scout ahead with Mystic Reflections to spot active spells, magic traps, buffed enemies or their items, and take your time studying them. Umbral Hand to creep out commoners, steal the guard's key, pull the wizard's amulet through the window etc.



Glitterdust is already your conjugation option.


I glitterdust
You glitterdust
He/She glitterdusts

[dextercorvia]

Ray of Stupidity is a ranged touch instead of an area, but it doesn't have a save. It deals 1d4+1 Int damage.

[Talya]

I glitterdust
You glitterdust
He/She glitterdusts

Aww, damn, you beat me to it.

[sambo.]

You can cast 4th level spells but need a 2nd level spell, so you probably don't need another combat spell.

err, i can only cast second level spells being a lvl 4 Sorcerer (but with caster level 7). (Sorcerer1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer3. so lvl6 shadowcaster spells and lvl4 sorcerer spells)

i'm being very careful about taking combat, direct damage type spells. i currently have two: Magic Missile and Killing Shadows which should do the job for a while.

the Ray is interesting, the only downside is i have a negligable bonus on To Hit rolls.

Alter Self is a given, but not right at this moment.

i WILL be getting the Afraid of the Dark mystery (take wisdom damage even on successful save) in time.

FYI: the party is about to go in for our second battle with a Druid who can throw at least lvl4 spells (we ran after the first one). we've whittled down his minions at least, just need to stomp the BBEG.

hmm, decisions, decisions......

[ericgrau]

Ouch 2 spell levels behind? I'm not familiar with those 2 classes. What's the advantage then?

[NecroRick]

Hideous laughter would really stuff up a BBEG...

... However Druids get good fort and will saves, so if you're looking at something that will mess him up (but grants a save) go for something with a reflex save.

combust (spell compendium) or flaming sphere (srd) might do the trick.

[Keld Denar]

Shadowcaster is a quasi-caster from Tome of Magic with its own tricks, probably closer to an invocation user than an actual spellcaster. Noctumancer is a Shadowcaster/Arcane theurge class, also from ToM, with some neat counterspelling options and are actually useful.

[ericgrau]

Hmm, immediate action counterspelling. I assume you already have improved counterspell, a spell of each school and heighten spell?

[Keld Denar]

You don't power it the normal way you power counterspells...you just do it. Read up on ToM for more details.

[ericgrau]

Well one trick with web is if you catch the enemy caster dead center (or more than 5 feet from the edge) he won't have line of effect on all his spells. And they tend to have low str scores so leaving won't be easy even if he passes his save. Plus he has concentration checks up to DC 19 on anything he can still cast. At level 7 you have maybe a +12 to concentration, so roughly 30% spell failure is nice. That and he probably didn't put a dimension door in his highest level slot.

Hmmm magic missile has maybe a 70% chance of making the caster fail his concentration check. Scorching ray is 100% but it only has a 25-50% chance that both rays will hit depending on cover. If only 1 ray hits then that's a 70% chance of making the caster fail his check, so overall it's maybe 85% chance of success, or 75% if he has cover.