[PF] Butterfly sting, worthwhile?

[stack]

Just noticed a pathfinder feat, butterfly sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical). Allows you to forgo your critical hit and allow your next ally to auto-crit and confirm.

Would it be worth setting up two warriors, one with, say, dual kukris (keen is possible), and another with a scythe (power attack, elemental burst)? Kukris to increase the umber of crits, scythe to use its 4x multiplier, the scythe user deliberately delaying actions to wait for the set-up.

Would this be worth the set-up and feat investment?

[peacenlove]

Notice that ability damage also gets multiplied by a crit.
Now check how many touch spells deal ability damage. Shivering touch and night's caress being a favorite.
Yes it would be worth it if you got a magus/touch spell specialist.

[FMArthur]

A scythe-wielder really would be ideal IMO. Ability damage would be worthwhile as an incidental effect if you took this feat independently, but if you were building for synergy you could probably make a scythe critical into an instant-kill rather easily.

What are good bonuses you can get on your weapon damage in Pathfinder? Power Attack being neutered sort of hampers this. Wield a Large weapon and be a barbarian, maybe?

Also, are you your own ally in Pathfinder?

[Salanmander]

I remember reading at some point that bonus damage that was added to a spell that did ability damage was negative energy damage, not ability damage. Is that correct? Does it not apply to crits?

[subject42]

What are good bonuses you can get on your weapon damage in Pathfinder? Power Attack being neutered sort of hampers this. Wield a Large weapon and be a barbarian, maybe?

Also, are you your own ally in Pathfinder?

As far as I'm aware, you're your own Ally in Pathfinder.

As for Power Attack, I think this is what your numbers look like by BAB with a two-handed weapon. At high levels one fighter variant can get it up higher, but that's not the common case:

BAB 1 - 3: +3
BAB 4 - 8: +6
BAB 9 - 12: +9
BAB 13 - 16: +12
BAB 17 - 20: +15

Beyond that, there's the flaming/icy/shocking/etc Burst enhancements, standard +x weapon enhancements, bonuses from high strength, and the Lead Blade ranger spell. I'm sure I'm missing a few things as well.

If you allow Psionics Unleashed, the Collision enhancement is a +5 to damage that gets multiplied.


Oh! Don't forget about critical feats:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/critical-feats

[Boci]

I remember reading at some point that bonus damage that was added to a spell that did ability damage was negative energy damage, not ability damage. Is that correct? Does it not apply to crits?

I beleive that only applied to SA damage.

[Cieyrin]

As far as I'm aware, you're your own Ally in Pathfinder.

As for Power Attack, I think this is what your numbers look like by BAB with a two-handed weapon. At high levels one fighter variant can get it up higher, but that's not the common case:

BAB 1 - 3: +3
BAB 4 - 8: +6
BAB 9 - 12: +9
BAB 13 - 16: +12
BAB 17 - 20: +15

Beyond that, there's the flaming/icy/shocking/etc Burst enhancements, standard +x weapon enhancements, bonuses from high strength, and the Lead Blade ranger spell. I'm sure I'm missing a few things as well.

If you allow Psionics Unleashed, the Collision enhancement is a +5 to damage that gets multiplied.


Oh! Don't forget about critical feats:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/critical-feats

Two-Handed Weapon Fighter gets auto-crit as a capstone or pretty close to one, though I'm not sure how the 'no crit-triggered effects' would play into the feat, as it's aimed at Energy Burst weapon specials, among other things.

[Ravens_cry]

This is a feat I am also curious about. Definitely something I want to try witha Rogue, as sneak attack benefits less from critical. Go two kukri and classic two weapon fighting, get either improved critical or keen and suddenly your "flanking buddy" can critical on anything that hits. That's a pretty intense potential jump in damage.

[FMArthur]

A Barbarian at fairly low levels could be looking at an 80 damage scythe critical, but if you do count as your own ally, a Magus would be in a pretty good position to both get the critical and deliver a decent damage payload with a damaging touch spell immediately thereafter (using Spell Combat).

This sort of drops off after Shocking Grasp hits its cap (5d6) because you stop getting touch damage spells (you get more AoE), but Intensify and other metamagics can squeeze a lot more out of it. Somewhere before 10th level you'd pass the Barbarian and, assuming you kept metamagicking as you got higher level spells, you'd stay ahead.

Granted, I'm not at all sure you count as your own ally in PF. I can't for the life of me find any references to it, and can't seem to find ally-targetting spells, either. It can't simply grandfather itself in from 3.5's rules. Most dictionary definitions I see suggest that it doesn't work because they describe an ally using terms like another, as in another person.

[Ravens_cry]

Even if you don't count as your own ally, it's still a very nice feat to take if you use high crit weapons but don't benefit from criticals much, like many rogues, and have an flanking buddy who does.
Remember, D&D (and by extension Pathfinder) is a team effort. Just because you are not doing the damage does not mean it is not worth taking.