Alchemist/Barbarian [Pathfinder]

[MrOmNomNom]

I have been working on an Alchemist to use in an upcoming campaign. While I like the builds that can be found online, I wanted to further personalise my Alchemist for a moderately optimised group. Using the Switch Hitter concept, I was thinking about building this as my alchemist. Primary enemies are going to be drow and duergar so the sunlight bombs are a plus.

Fey-Touched Elf Alchemist 18 / Drunken Brute Barbarian 2

25 pt buy
Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 20
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

Traits:
Warrior of Old
Quick Drinker

Feats:
Flaw: Feral Mutagen
1: Point Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
5: Precise Shot
7: Extra Discovery (Blinding Bomb)
9: Many Shot
11:Deadly Aim
13:Power Attack
15: Improved Precise Shot

Discoveries:
2: Precise Bomb
4: Infusion
6: Sticky Poison
8: Fast Bomb
10: Force Bomb
12: Greater Mutagen
14: Sunlight Bomb
16: Grand Mutagen

Rage Power: Lesser Fiend Totem or Good for What Ails You

I would like to focus primarily on archery and bombs (special raining arrows), and then switch to melee either when I run out of bombs, or in situations where melee could do more damage. I would use the +dex mutagen to enhance archery, with the +str as a secondary ability as my mutagens get better. Rage would be saved for the rare instances where I would be in melee. Poisons would be a plus thanks to a party member's minor creation.

Does the playground have any thoughts on this build? The LA from fey touched (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/fey-touched-cr-1) will be gone by level 3 and the dex boost is nice. I guess the DR will be worthless as soon as people start wielding +3 weapons.

[Blisstake]

I believe it was stated on the Pathfinder forums that the "Quick Drinker" trait does not apply to alchemist spells. And you can't get a free +1 LA template, because you can only get an extra level a number of times equal to the templates LA/2 (rounding down - so zero).

Personally, I would just go alchemist 20. The true mutagen discovery at level 20 is pretty impressive.

[MrOmNomNom]

We will be using LA buy off.

Quick Drinker is for potions and drunken brute abilities, it does not work with extracts.

[Larpus]

Personally, I would just go alchemist 20. The true mutagen discovery at level 20 is pretty impressive.
But that's only if there's an actual chance of hitting lvl20, otherwise a dip or two is usually better than the possibility of maybe someday eventually getting a very cool ability. That's what I think anyway.

As for the build, 2 dip into Barbarian is actually a nice idea for a melee Alchemist (as long as there's no actual chance of getting to level 20); however the issue I can see is that maybe your build will end up too unfocused.

Even without the Feral Mutagen and 2 Barbarian levels you can already be a decent enough last minute melee using a Longsword or something. So I guess that those 2 levels and one Discovery could be better spent with something else (but especially the 2 level dip).

Likewise, a melee-focused Alchemist will be a much better melee attacker, my particular build even foregoes the Bombs with the Vivisectionist Sneak Attacks.

EDIT: Just to explain my point a bit better, here are some examples why I think the 2 levels in Barbarian are a bad idea:

1. If it's for melee abilities, as I mentioned, they won't do wonders for you and will be quite a waste since your feats all suggest that you prefer to throw bombs for a distance and meleeing is only a "oh shi-" thing, losing 2 spellcasting levels is simply too much for that.

2. If it's for the proficiencies with better weapons and whatnot, then Fighter seems like a better option, you lose Rage and a Rage power, but you get Heavy Armor proficiency and 2 feats, which can be Extra Discoveries.

3. If it's for the BAB, then Master Chymist is better as it only makes you lose 1 spellcasting level (as opposed to 2), gives you 2 extra uses of Mutagen which are also more versatile to booth and with Advanced Mutagen you can grab Dual Mind so your weak Will is a lesser problem now.

[MrOmNomNom]

Hmm... Well I want to keep the archery and bomb options, so I guess I can drop the switch hitting idea. (I would like to be able to do it all, but the whole party cant be wizards, clerics, and druids :smallbiggrin:) Would Master Chymist be useful for a pure ranged build? How high should I get my mutagen? Greater? Grand?

As the campaign stands now, we may pass level 20. Hopefully by then there will be a good set of rules for epic play, otherwise I guess I will have to work on that myself... We are converting a 3.5 campaign to Pathfinder, so it may even be a while before we get to level 20, much less past it. (I'm the most experienced player in the group, but we are all taking turns to DM by splitting the campaign up by chapters)

Also, I may ditch the Fey Touched template. It feels kind of munchkiney, and has little use past the +4 dex, if I understand the DR rules correctly. Will the DR/Cold Iron be useless as soon as enemies start wielding +3 weapons?

Edit: and I will replace my flaw granted feat with Knowledge Devotion
Are there any other ways to get Int to damage?

[Blisstake]

Oh, I was under the impression that you were starting at level 20, my bad.

And yes, in PF all +3 or higher weapons ignore DR/cold iron, but keep in mind that there are plenty of deadly enemies that use natural attacks rather than weapons. DR would still be useful in those situation. Of course, if you're mostly going against humanoids, every single one with +3 or greater weapons, then yeah, maybe it wouldn't be as useful as expected.

[Larpus]

Hmm... Well I want to keep the archery and bomb options, so I guess I can drop the switch hitting idea. (I would like to be able to do it all, but the whole party cant be wizards, clerics, and druids :smallbiggrin:) Would Master Chymist be useful for a pure ranged build? How high should I get my mutagen? Greater? Grand?

As the campaign stands now, we may pass level 20. Hopefully by then there will be a good set of rules for epic play, otherwise I guess I will have to work on that myself... We are converting a 3.5 campaign to Pathfinder, so it may even be a while before we get to level 20, much less past it. (I'm the most experienced player in the group, but we are all taking turns to DM by splitting the campaign up by chapters)

Also, I may ditch the Fey Touched template. It feels kind of munchkiney, and has little use past the +4 dex, if I understand the DR rules correctly. Will the DR/Cold Iron be useless as soon as enemies start wielding +3 weapons?

Edit: and I will replace my flaw granted feat with Knowledge Devotion
Are there any other ways to get Int to damage?
Well, there's nothing wrong with going with the switch hitting idea, I only think it's a waste to lose 2 levels for something that situational, considering that with Mutagen alone you can already buff yourself to decent levels. Feral Mutagen is also situational, but is less of a waste than 2 Barbarian.

Yes, Master Chymist can be useful for a pure Bomber, if not for anything else, for the extra BAB and extra Mutagen uses/versatility (using the Mutate ability you can have your prepared Mutagen be Dex but when using Mutate have it be Str instead with no preparation time); then there is also the Advanced Mutagens, which have couple interesting choices, for your build I'd say either Dual Mind (+2 Will and if you fail a check against Enchantment you cna reroll at the expense of a Mutate use) or Furious Mutagen (increases the die of the Claws and Bite from Feral Mutagen, which complements your idea of being able to melee); however, since you may indeed go all the way to 20, then you need careful consideration as going Master Chymist will deny you Grand Discovery, out of which True Mutagen is really interesing (your Mutagen is now +8 NA, +8 to all physical, -2 to all mental, you have to take Grand to qualify).

As for the Flaw feat, as I said, Feral Mutagen is not that bad of a choice since it doesn't take away from your ability as an Alchemist, but I'm not sure if it would be more effective than wielding a Longsword or some other decent weapon.

If you're going archery either with Bows or Xbows, you can grab Focused Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/focused-shot-combat), which adds your Int bonus against creatures not immune to critical and sneaks. (I'm guessing this is on top of any Str you're already adding).

As for the Mutagen, unless you're going Alchemist 20 to grab the True Mutagen, it's totally up to you, I personally feel that Greater is enough, but for a switch hitter style, maybe Grand is better since it greatly modifies your stats (you suddenly have a Breastplate worth of AC on top of your armor and your stats boom to 18, 24 and 16 or similar, not half bad to deliver some punches); but really, it's up to you.

[MrOmNomNom]

I guess I can play the character and see if I need to boost from Master Chymist on will saves. My melee weapon could be an Elvencraft Bow, so I would not need Quick Draw.

The fey template, Dex mutagen, an ok BAB means that I should not have that hard of a time hitting things, especially with the bombs. While Knowledge Devotion and Focused Shot will increase damage, under the right circumstances.

How does poisoning arrows work? Especially with the Sticky Poison discovery? I don't think splitting should be allowed to effectively double the amount of poison I use, but that would be nice. A +5 Elvencraft Bow of Splitting and Assassination would be wicked.

[Larpus]

I guess I can play the character and see if I need to boost from Master Chymist on will saves. My melee weapon could be an Elvencraft Bow, so I would not need Quick Draw.

The fey template, Dex mutagen, an ok BAB means that I should not have that hard of a time hitting things, especially with the bombs. While Knowledge Devotion and Focused Shot will increase damage, under the right circumstances.

How does poisoning arrows work? Especially with the Sticky Poison discovery? I don't think splitting should be allowed to effectively double the amount of poison I use, but that would be nice. A +5 Elvencraft Bow of Splitting and Assassination would be wicked.
Indeed, I don't think you'll have much trouble hitting stuff, 3/4 BAB is not bad at all and the Alchemist can buff himself quite easily to lessen even more the effect of not having full BAB.

As for poison, I'm not 100% sure since I couldn't find the specific rules for that, but I believe it works just like enchanting the arrows: a single unit of poison is applied to a set of 50 arrows (though it can be less in this case). Sadly Sticky Poison should have little to no effect on them since only missed arrows have a 50% chance of not breaking (and thus be used again), however you can ask your DM if instead it can be applied to 50xInt arrows.