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Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-18, 07:00 PM
---Psionic Paladin---



This class is in need of fluff.


Still working out class...
If you have any suggestions please post.

---Psionic Paladin---
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | PP/day | Special | Max Power Level Known
1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | 0 | Aura of Good (Ex) , Detect Psionics, Psionic Detect Evil, Smite Evil | 1
2nd | +2 | +3 | +0| +3 | 1 | Power of the Mind, Lay on hands | 1
3rd | +3 | +3 | +1| +3 | 3 | Strong Mind | 1
4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | 5 | 4th level abilities | 2
5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | 7 | 5th level abilities | 2
6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +2 | +5 | 11 | 6th level abilities | 2
7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +2| +5 | 15 | 7th level abilities | 3
8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +2 | +6 | 19 | 8th level abilities | 3
9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +3 | +6 | 23 | 9th level abilities | 3
10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +3 | +7 | 27 | 10th level abilities | 4
11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +3 | +7 | 35 | 11th level abilities | 4
12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +4 | +8 | 43 | 12th level abilities | 4
13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +4 | +8 | 51 | 13th level abilities | 5
14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +4 | +9 | 59 | 14th level abilities | 5
15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +5 | +9 | 67 | 15th level abilities | 5
16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +5 | +10 | +10 | 79 | 16th level abilities | 6
17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | 91 | 17th level abilities | 6
18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +6 | +11 | +11 | 103 | 18th level abilities | 6
19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +11| +11 | 115 | 19th level abilities | 6
20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +12 | +12 | 127 | 20th level abilities | 6
[/table]

Class Features

Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the
detect good spell and psionic power) is equal to her paladin level, just like the aura of a cleric of a good deity.

Detect Psionics(Ex): At will, the Psionic paladin may manifest Detect Psionics as the power.

Psionic Detect Evil(Su): At will, the psionic paladin may manifest Psionic Detect Evil as the power.

Smite Evil (Su): A Psionic paladin may spend 2 power points to smite evil, adding his Int modifier to his attack roll and his Psionic Paladin level to damage rolls. A Psionic Paladin may add bonus power points to his smite to add +1 damage or attack roll per spent power point. (Problem= at higher levels, he can spend say 40 or 50 at once and automatically kill because of massive damage.

Power of the Mind (Ex): A 2nd level Psionic Paladin adds his or her Int bonus to all saving throws.

Lay on Hands (Ex): A 2nd level Psionic Paladin may spend Power Points to heal him or one of his comrades (anyone really) on a one to one ratio.
If he uses this ability on a construct it works normally.
If he uses this on a Psioic crature it works to double effect (1PP=2Damage)
He may convert this healing to damage on an evil creature.

Strong Mind (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a Psionic Paladin is
immune to fear (Psionic or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of
her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if
she is unconscious or dead.











NO DIVINE HEALTH (should the psionic paladin have a similar ability?)

I think some psi like abilities should come to replace turning and special mount.

What spell like abilities or class features would you suggest?

erikun
2011-07-18, 07:20 PM
This will probably be helpful. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204829) As for your specific request:

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | PP/day | Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +2 | +0 | 0 | 1st level abilities
2nd | +2 | +3 | +3| +0 | 1 | 2nd level abilities
3rd | +3 | +3 | +3| +1 | 3 | 3rd level abilities
4th | +4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | 5 | 4th level abilities
5th | +5 | +4 | +4 | +1 | 7 | 5th level abilities
6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +5 | +2 | 11 | 6th level abilities
7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5| +2 | 15 | 7th level abilities
8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +6 | +2 | 19 | 8th level abilities
9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +3 | 23 | 9th level abilities
10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +7 | +3 | 27 | 10th level abilities
11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +7 | +3 | 35 | 11th level abilities
12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +8 | +4 | 43 | 12th level abilities
13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +8 | +4 | 51 | 13th level abilities
14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +9 | +4 | 59 | 14th level abilities
15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +9 | +5 | 67 | 15th level abilities
16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +10 | +5 | 79 | 16th level abilities
17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +10 | +6 | 91 | 17th level abilities
18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +11 | +6 | 103 | 18th level abilities
19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +11| +6 | 115 | 19th level abilities
20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +12 | +6 | 127 | 20th level abilities
[/table]



{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | PP/day | Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +2 | +0 | 0 | 1st level abilities
2nd | +2 | +3 | +3| +0 | 1 | 2nd level abilities
3rd | +3 | +3 | +3| +1 | 3 | 3rd level abilities
4th | +4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | 5 | 4th level abilities
5th | +5 | +4 | +4 | +1 | 7 | 5th level abilities
6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +5 | +2 | 11 | 6th level abilities
7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5| +2 | 15 | 7th level abilities
8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +6 | +2 | 19 | 8th level abilities
9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +3 | 23 | 9th level abilities
10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +7 | +3 | 27 | 10th level abilities
11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +7 | +3 | 35 | 11th level abilities
12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +8 | +4 | 43 | 12th level abilities
13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +8 | +4 | 51 | 13th level abilities
14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +9 | +4 | 59 | 14th level abilities
15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +9 | +5 | 67 | 15th level abilities
16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +10 | +5 | 79 | 16th level abilities
17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +10 | +6 | 91 | 17th level abilities
18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +11 | +6 | 103 | 18th level abilities
19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +11| +6 | 115 | 19th level abilities
20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +12 | +6 | 127 | 20th level abilities
[/table]

Note that the first line of the table needs to be on the same line as the opening {table] tag.

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-18, 07:26 PM
Thank you very much erikun, have any suggestions for the Psionic Paladin?:smallbiggrin:

Yitzi
2011-07-18, 07:46 PM
Divine casters are actually a somewhat unusual choice to make psionic versions of, as psionics is fundamentally coming from oneself (even more than arcane magic), while divine magic is fundamentally coming from an external source.

So I'd think the first thing you need to address is how to deal with that. In particular, where does the psionic paladin get his powers from? From his own mind (like other psionic classes), or from the power he serves (like normal paladins)? And if the former (which will probably be the case), what makes him a paladin rather than just someone who serves good?

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-18, 07:51 PM
It is a class for players who want a psionic character who can smite evil without multiclassing.
It is supposed to be a character that uses the power of their mind to serve a greater purpose, not unlike the paladin in spirit.

erikun
2011-07-18, 08:03 PM
Note that the PP progression is for the Psychic Warrior, a class with 3/4 BAB and yet considered one of the best meleers in the game. (It is roughly on par with the Tome of Battle classes.) If you are keeping the full BAB and PP, then they will likely have very few powers to choose from, or simply don't get a choice - getting PP and only the powers available to the class, rather than choosing from a list.

I would think a Smite ability would be appropriate. However, rather than Smite Evil X times per day, how about expending a focus and spending PP for the Smite ability? Something like: "Expend your Psionic Focus and 1 PP for +1 to hit and +1d6 damage. For every 1 PP spend, add +1 to hit and +1d6 to damage. You may not spend more PP than your manifester level." That way, it acts more like a psionic power or ability. (Psychic Warriors tend to be PP starved, so asking to spend 20 PP at 20th level is quite a cost.)

I would get rid of Detect Evil, instead making them a paragon or champion of a virtue. The question, though, is what? Should they be a mental pinnacle? A slayer of misuse of psionics? A champion of the mind and body? What theme you pick would flavor the class quite a bit.

I'm not a fan of the standard Paladin + psionics. The two themes don't seem to fit very well, at all. You can do so if you want, although I'm not sure how much help I would be. (Lay on Hands/Cure Disease/etc. could be activated by PP as well. You may want some new abilities also, such as a way to grant the Paladin's saves to an ally.)

Othniel Edden
2011-07-18, 08:12 PM
Divine casters are actually a somewhat unusual choice to make psionic versions of, as psionics is fundamentally coming from oneself (even more than arcane magic), while divine magic is fundamentally coming from an external source.

So I'd think the first thing you need to address is how to deal with that. In particular, where does the psionic paladin get his powers from? From his own mind (like other psionic classes), or from the power he serves (like normal paladins)? And if the former (which will probably be the case), what makes him a paladin rather than just someone who serves good?

In the land of many deities having a small personal one riding around in your head isn't too much to ask, is it?

Yitzi
2011-07-18, 08:44 PM
It is a class for players who want a psionic character who can smite evil without multiclassing.
It is supposed to be a character that uses the power of their mind to serve a greater purpose, not unlike the paladin in spirit.

The thing is...the paladin uses the power granted by the purpose he serves. A psionic character already has a power source, so it's not going to be the same fluff-wise.

My suggestion (which you might accept or not as you choose): Make it a prestige class (technically that's multiclassing, but if it's full manifesting and full Smite Evil I doubt anyone will mind.)
Give it a decent BAB prerequisite and primarily physical combat abilities to encourage it to be taken by psychic warriors, make Aligned Attack (good) and a decent manifester level (probably enough to match the BAB assuming a 3/4 BAB class) a prerequisite, and give it full manifesting in any previous class. Give it 3/4 BAB (like the psychic warrior), and Smite Evil as an automatic ride-along to Aligned Attack (whenever you use Aligned Attack, you use Smite Evil, with no limit on uses/day) with damage increased by manifester level rather than class level. Give it aura sight (detecting evil only) instead of "psionic detect evil", and some more anti-evil abilities in later levels.
The fluff would then be that this is someone who turns their psionic gifts toward the destruction of evil, but without any actual divine component.



In the land of many deities having a small personal one riding around in your head isn't too much to ask, is it?

Seeing as the whole idea of a deity is that it's an outside power you call on for assistance...I'd say that yes it is too much to ask.

NeoSeraphi
2011-07-18, 08:48 PM
I really don't think classes that wear heavy armor (or gain heavy armor proficiency) should have good Reflex saves. It A) doesn't make sense and B) I can't think of a single official case of this. Why does your paladin have good Reflex saves anyway?

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-19, 10:24 AM
I really don't think classes that wear heavy armor (or gain heavy armor proficiency) should have good Reflex saves. It A) doesn't make sense and B) I can't think of a single official case of this. Why does your paladin have good Reflex saves anyway?

haven't done much editing yet, i received a generic vB code table and havbe barely started editing.
I put it up early so that big changes to this class could be made early on.

Tanuki Tales
2011-07-19, 10:32 AM
Seeing as the whole idea of a deity is that it's an outside power you call on for assistance...I'd say that yes it is too much to ask.

That's just your opinion Yitzi. I personally think the concept of a Psionic Paladin being empowered by some form of Small God riding shot-gun in his mind is refreshing and intriguing.

Lordof Dorkness
2011-07-19, 10:40 AM
Other ways of thinking are that this is a psionic race's version of paladin where a Psioinic god gives power.
That is if you find that a god in a person's head is too much to comprehend.
:smallyuk:*(Sound of brain exploding)*

supermonkeyjoe
2011-07-19, 10:43 AM
Psionic paladin fluff comes very easily to the Kalashtar of Eberron, they are basically a whole race of psionic beings with paladin ideals. One of my players is currently playing a psionic paladin as I've written up Here (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/therealm/wikis/psionic-paladin) and with that and taking the Divine Spirit ACF Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a) it's created a very unique flavour of paladin, and one which is working out very well.

paddyfool
2011-07-19, 10:51 AM
Another way to do this might be a dual-progression feat for Psychic Warriors and Paladins, similar to Tashalatora. Something like this, perhaps (very rough version):

Righteous Mind
Prerequisites: Divine Grace class ability, at least 2 powers known from the Psychic Warrior powers list, BAB 3+.
You may multiclass freely between Paladin and Psychic Warrior. Your Paladin levels count towards your Psychic Warrior levels for power points/day and half your Paladin levels (round up) count towards your Psychic Warrior levels for powers known. Your Psychic Warrior levels count towards your Paladin levels for Lay on Hands and Smite Evil.

(Thought about sticking in a mechanic to add the Paladin spells to the Psy Warrior's power list, but it seemed a little much).

Yitzi
2011-07-19, 12:17 PM
Other ways of thinking are that this is a psionic race's version of paladin where a Psioinic god gives power.

That really only works if power from a psionic god is psionic in nature.

Maybe the first question is how you understand psionics fluffwise. Is it just another form of magic, is it something fundamentally different and inherent to the person, etc.

hamishspence
2011-07-19, 12:29 PM
It could be a deity who gains power from devotion, but doesn't grant spells.

A psionic character, who ascended to divinity, with a paladin-like ethos, who has inspired others to follow him, by example.

Yitzi
2011-07-19, 02:53 PM
But even if he's a psionic character, whatever powers he grants as a deity would presumably be magical in nature, unless you want to posit a "psionic deity"...actually, that might work, but it pretty much amounts to allowing for "divine psionics" just like there is "divine magic."

hamishspence
2011-07-19, 03:13 PM
I was thinking more "psionicists who happen to follow the paladin ethos".

That said, Complete Psionic had the "Divine Mind" which "channels the power of the divine through psionic talent instead of faith"

maybe the idea could be improved and refined somewhat, to make this?

Yitzi
2011-07-19, 06:36 PM
That said, Complete Psionic had the "Divine Mind" which "channels the power of the divine through psionic talent instead of faith"

maybe the idea could be improved and refined somewhat, to make this?

That could definitely work. What's it do mechanicswise?

Prime32
2011-07-20, 11:01 AM
I was thinking more "psionicists who happen to follow the paladin ethos".

That said, Complete Psionic had the "Divine Mind" which "channels the power of the divine through psionic talent instead of faith"

maybe the idea could be improved and refined somewhat, to make this?And apart from being a terrible class mechanically, it gets a lot of flak for not making sense in flavour terms.

I'd prefer basing this on the ardent (also from Complete Psionic), who gains power by believing in things. Believe in the ideals of a paladin and they become your source of power (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RightMakesMight).

Alchemistmerlin
2011-07-20, 11:08 AM
So rather than appeal to a deity, perhaps Psionic Paladins appeal to a faith that focuses on inner power and self determination a la The Light from Warcraft (Prior to the addition of windchime angels).