CSS (Consolidated Skills System) [DND 3.5]

[Strormer]

Right, so I mentioned in my PC races post that I use a consolidated skills system. I wanted to put that system up here as well for interest and review.


The new skills are consolidated and function via a trained/untrained system rather than the traditional skills system. Classes have a number of class skills which can be trained at creation and with a feat. The number of trained skills at creation is equal to the number of skill points/level in the old system. (Example: A wizard with 16 INT has 5 trained skills, 2 class + 3 INT) Trained skills are treated as having a number of ranks equal to the player's class level + 3 (old system maximum).

The new skills (and the old skills which feed into them) are:
Business (Int) – Appraise, Profession

Acrobatics (Dex) – Balance, Escape Artist, Jump, Tumble

Persuasion (Cha) – Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Intimidate

Athletics (Str) – Climb, Swim

Concentration (Con) – Concentration

Craft (Int) – Craft

Mechanics (Int) – Disable Device, Open Lock, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)

Survival (Wis) – Handle Animal, Ride, Survival, Use Rope

Heal (Wis) – Heal

Stealth (Dex) – Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand

Arcana (Int) – Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (The Planes), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Nature (Int) – Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Dungeoneering)

Religion (Int) – Knowledge (Religion)

Perception (Wis) – Search, Sense Motive

Awareness (Wis) - Listen, Spot

Perform (Cha) – Perform

Psionics (Int) – Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, Autohypnosis, Use Psionic Device

Geography (Int) – Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)

History (Int) - Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (History)


I've also created two new feats for use with this system!

NEW FEATS!
Skill Training [General]
Prerequisites: Class level above 1st, Int 11+
Benefit: Train a number of class skills equal to your Int modifier (minimum 1) or one non-class skill.

Skill Versatility [General]
Prerequisites: Class level above 8th, Int 15+, Trained in at least 8 skills
Benefit: All untrained class skills are treated as if they had half as many ranks (rounded down) as if they were trained. (If a trained skill at 8th level has 11 ranks, an untrained class skill with this feat would have 5 ranks instead of 0.)
Normal: Without this feat, all untrained skills have 0 ranks.

Unique Training [General]
Prerequisites: Class level above 5th, Int 17+
Benefit: Select a number of non-class skills equal to half your Int modifier (rounded down, minimum 1). Those skills are considered class skills for you.


What do you think? I like to think it saves a lot of counting time when leveling and sometimes my players level in the middle of a session.
I would also love any additional feat suggestions.
Thanks all!

[Cipher Stars]

Jump should go under Athletics rather then Acrobatics, just my thoughts.

Perception: Search, Sense Motive
Awareness: Spot, Listen

[Strormer]

Jump should go under Athletics rather then Acrobatics, just my thoughts.

Perception: Search, Sense Motive
Awareness: Spot, Listen

Thanks a lot, especially for the perception/awareness idea. I was concerned I didn't have enough skills. Even consolidated I want to have a decent amount.

[Domriso]

An interesting variant skill list I found transformed most of the combat maneuvers, like trip and grapple, into different skills. Technically, they weren't simply used for those maneuvers, but for a bunch of other uses, but the idea was there. There was also turning saving throws and BAB into skills, which I personally enjoy.

The book I found it in was A Skill for Everything, published by Fifth Element Games. I really liked a lot of the ideas in it, and I used a lot of them, if slightly adapted.

[erikun]

Any reason why there are a number of virtually worthless skills (Craft, Nature, Religion, Perform, Geography) next to the much more important ones? I would think that, at least, Religion would contain information about deities (Planes) and divine magic (Spellcraft) as part of it.

Also, where did History disappear to?

[Strormer]

Oh, I like that about the planes, tyvm. As for the useless skills (perform, nature, etc) I had to make sure that every skill that is in 3.5 is present so that all 3.5 rules can be used. (ie - perform for bards...)
Incidentally, History should have been in Geography. Sorry for the confusion, I meant for local and history to fuse into one skill completely since you have generic history and then local history separate in 3.5, which I always thought was silly. Should I maybe put local/history into a History (Int) skill instead of both in Geography (Int)?

[Dryad]

I think most people already simply max an amount of skills equal to (skill points/lvl + int mod), so there really shouldn't be that much time lost in counting.
Another thing: I think it's a good thing that players can decide to place skill points in skills as they choose, should they so choose. Limiting this freedom is, in my opinion, simply counter-productive. It's basically the fourth edition model you're putting forth, here.
The diversity of skills, and the possibility to spend ranks as one desires, is one of the biggest fortes 3.+ has over 4th.

[DeAnno]

Unique Training seems a little... punitive for a feat. It doesn't actually gain you anything until you spend an extra feat later to train the skills. I think I would just let those skills be trained.

How are you planning to deal with skills in PRCs/Multiclassing? Do they add to the class skill list, and do they provide any new training?

[Strormer]

Unique Training seems a little... punitive for a feat. It doesn't actually gain you anything until you spend an extra feat later to train the skills. I think I would just let those skills be trained.

I agree. I just wanted some way for players to make non-class skills class so that they could pick up on some other toys I was going to toss out, but it is weak for a stand-alone feat.


How are you planning to deal with skills in PRCs/Multiclassing? Do they add to the class skill list, and do they provide any new training?

Multiclassing would just make any skills not currently class skills into class skills if your new class had any your old one did not.

PrC class skills are a bit different. You not only gain any new class skills but train a number equal to your new skill point modifier. (Say a PrC has 4+Int Skill Points/level. You'd train 4 more skills.)


I think most people already simply max an amount of skills equal to (skill points/lvl + int mod), so there really shouldn't be that much time lost in counting.
Another thing: I think it's a good thing that players can decide to place skill points in skills as they choose, should they so choose. Limiting this freedom is, in my opinion, simply counter-productive. It's basically the fourth edition model you're putting forth, here.
The diversity of skills, and the possibility to spend ranks as one desires, is one of the biggest fortes 3.+ has over 4th.

I do understand what you're saying about this being a 4e model for skills, or close to it. My attitude towards 4th is that some things were over complicated and toning it down did help the game overall, but I also feel that so much customization ability was lost that it became akin to just playing a video game, losing that little spark of creativity that goes hand in hand with DND. Still, as you said, most players were going to max skills anyway, and I never understood why a character good at hiding would never bother to learn to be quiet. Thus, Stealth, which covers all of that. Most games didn't break up skills as thoroughly as DND and they were blessed for it. I thought about adding skill specializations, like choosing to specialize in hiding when your Stealth skill got high enough, but it was more trouble than it was worth. In the end, players I played with felt the same so we made the transition. I used to joke that our style of DND ought to be called 3.75, because it stole what we liked from 4e and tossed out what we didn't.