Is Roy inspired by Avatars Sokka?

[rbetieh]

First post, lurking the board for a while but 796 sort of got me thinking about this.

There are a lot in common between Roy and Sokka. For one, same skin tone and choice of clothing color. Next, team strategist. Then team wisecracker. Furthermore when both are removed from the team, the story stalls. Then there is the relative power gap between these guys and the other heroes. And finally:

Both get a weapons upgrade from a rock from the sky and receive sword-mastery training

Now, I know the story has made reference to Avatar before, I specifically remember a conversation between Elan and his dad, which is why this kind of clicked for me. But there is a major difference between the two characters that is seriously bothering me. What happened to Roy in episode 796 would not have happened to Sokka because the Avatar character in similar situations (facing an opponent that is overwhelming) actually uses his brains in combat (strategic withdrawals, dust in the face, terrain use, are all Sokka tactics that turned overwhelming defeats into seat of your pants wins). I feel like if somehow Roy turns this battle around, he becomes an almost perfect Sokka (without boomerang, of course).

Ok back to lurking for me, what do you all think?

[John Cribati]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The first comic is marked 2003. Avatar came out in 2005. So probably not.

[rbetieh]

Ha, never even noticed the dates before. Thanks for that, i guess its just the tropes.

[Ya Ta Hey!]

(Welcome to the forum, by the way.)

[Zevox]

Also not exactly sure how you could possibly connect the two when Roy completely lacks Sokka's buffoonish behavior. Sokka sometimes displayed genuine intelligence, sure, but he also often acted pretty stupidly, in ways far more comparable to Elan than Roy. Roy on the other hand is nothing like that, instead being the responsible, intelligent leader of the group, a category none of the Avatar characters quite fit into (the group never really started considering anyone in particular as their leader, in spite of Sokka's attempt to take that role in one episode).

Zevox

[Zerg Cookie]

Zevox, Can you back it up with examples?
I can't recall Sokka acting Elan-ish after he took a level in badass (Before he did, he was comic relief, that doesn't count).

[John Cribati]

Zevox, Can you back it up with examples?
I can't recall Sokka acting Elan-ish after he took a level in badass (Before he did, he was comic relief, that doesn't count).

He spent about 3 minutes of screentime in Appa's mouth.

During the series finale.

And the way Zuko said "get out of the bison's mouth," you could tell that this has happened before.

[rbetieh]

You should re-read the chapters where Roy is getting judged in the afterlife. When Roy was a kid, he very well might have had the same bafoonish behavior as Sokka (who, is a kid after all).

Sokka seems responsible enough for his age, he's only really there to keep his little sister safe, after all. And from the episode "The Library" on, the entire rest of the show is one big Sokka Plan. You also get a good glimpse of the kind of person Sokka will end up being through Sokkas father.

There really are a lot of similarities here. They even both end up getting a weapon broken early in the story, now that I remember it. And they both end up with the last laugh in that instance too if I recall. Funny stuff.

[Zevox]

Zevox, Can you back it up with examples?
I can't recall Sokka acting Elan-ish after he took a level in badass (Before he did, he was comic relief, that doesn't count).
You're being wholly unreasonable if you're not going to count 70% of the show.


You should re-read the chapters where Roy is getting judged in the afterlife. When Roy was a kid, he very well might have had the same bafoonish behavior as Sokka (who, is a kid after all).
Speculation on something which has not actually been shown in the comic. Hardly a good argument.

Zevox

[Vultawk]

Roy doesn't have enough levels in Rogue to be like Sokka.

[faustin]

Sokka has also another trait in common with Elan: both of them have a lot of femenine atention (Princess Yue, Suki, Toph...) but they are still faithful to their true loves (Sokka refuses at first to kiss Yuki in front of the Moon aka Yue´s deceased spirit, as Elan doesn´t give up Haley for Terkla).



Roy doesn't have enough levels in Rogue to be like Sokka.

Actually, the one with Rogue level is Zuko (with a lot of points in stealth and tracking)

[Vultawk]

I'd say Sokka's a Rogue as well. He's definitely the most skilled of the group, and a lot of his boomerang moments could easily be Sneak Attacks. He may not have the stereotypical rogue skill set, but he's a rogue.

[Dr.Epic]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The first comic is marked 2003. Avatar came out in 2005. So probably not.

Unless Rich is a time wizard!

Could this mean Belkar is based on Aang? THey're both really comical and silly, have shaved heads, a fluffy pet, and are the shortest person on their team.

:belkar: Avatar State! Yip! Yip! Stab!

[Kobold-Bard]

I'd say Sokka's a Rogue as well. He's definitely the most skilled of the group, and a lot of his boomerang moments could easily be Sneak Attacks. He may not have the stereotypical rogue skill set, but he's a rogue.

Sokka sees himself as a stone cold warrior. No way is he taking levels in a class with anything less than full BAB.

[rbetieh]

I certainly not speculating when I say that he may have had some incidence of stuupid as a kid, since the Celestial clearly mentions one of his pranks gone wrong. And then theres the "wisdom increases with age" thing. There is evidence of Roy having made big childhood mistakes (little brother incident might qualify), which doesnt seem abnormal to me, since all children have these moments (although not many have some that are too traumatic). Roy is older than sokka, so he is more mature, simple enough.

Also isnt there an episode where they make the team go through some coming-of-age test and appoint Sokka the leader in the first season. Something about having to steer a canoe....just saying. I am wrong about the whole 'inspired by' thing, but it does seem like there is a bit of character overlap here which is understandable with tropes being what they are.

[Dr.Epic]

I'd say Sokka's a Rogue as well. He's definitely the most skilled of the group, and a lot of his boomerang moments could easily be Sneak Attacks. He may not have the stereotypical rogue skill set, but he's a rogue.

He seems like a fighter to me. He's up there in the front lines all the time swinging that sword.

[rbetieh]

Maybe a level of Ranger? He knows how to fish and can use Melee and Ranged weapons. He probably has Favored Enemy (Fire Nation) by his ability to pull off half-baked bluffs against Fire nation people.

Oh and Dr. Epic, didnt Belkar avatar state after waking up from his Mark of Justice coma? :smallwink:

[BladeofOblivion]

I think Sokka almost certainly has a high Bluff skill, though. Think about the "Wang Fire" ploy: Sokka is 15, IIRC. Katara is 14. He somehow managed to convince a schoolmaster that a 12-year old was their child, despite the fact that Sokka and Katara are obviously siblings and Aang looks nothing like either of them.

He does this using only lies, wordplay, and a fake beard.

It'd be ridiculous if we weren't suspending disbelief for the humor. :smalltongue:

[JustIgnoreMe]

Could this mean Belkar is based on Aang? THey're both really comical and silly, have shaved heads, a fluffy pet, and are the shortest person on their team.

:belkar: Avatar State! Yip! Yip! Stab!

... Dammit, why am I looking for a "Like" button?

[Esprit15]

... Dammit, why am I looking for a "Like" button?

Because like me, you have spent too much time on FB?:smallwink:

[zimmerwald1915]

Actually, the one with Rogue level is Zuko (with a lot of points in stealth and tracking)
Nah, Zuko's a TWF Ranger with Favored Enemy: Airbenders.

[Kobold-Bard]

Nah, Zuko's a TWF Ranger with Favored Enemy: Airbenders.

He can't have FE: Airbenders, they were all dead before he was born.

[MoonCat]

He can't have FE: Airbenders, they were all dead before he was born.

Except for one, who he failed miserably to capture.

[Fallbot]

Oh hey, maybe Celia was inspired by Yue! They both fall for Sokka/Roy, they both have white hair, they both fly (or do a spirity floaty in Yue's case), and I'm sure I could force some other similarities if I spent more time thinking about this.

Oooh! I bet Eagle-eyed Pete was inspired by Toph! Cause they're both blind! And he has a secret basement! You know, down in the earth! I bet he totally used bending to dig it out.

[zimmerwald1915]

Except for one, who he failed miserably to capture.
To capture, yes, but not to track. once released from the iceberg, he was usually able to find aang when he wanted/needed to.

EDIT re FE:Airbenders: Favored Enemy applies to a category of creatures, not to a single individual. And Zuko, and whoever gave him information, knows that the current Avatar would be an airbender. Or he could be a Urban Ranger from the Cityscape Web Supplement with Favored Organization: Avatars.

[KillianHawkeye]

Now, I know the story has made reference to Avatar before, I specifically remember a conversation between Elan and his dad, which is why this kind of clicked for me.

Care to elaborate? I don't remember ever seeing any Avatar references in the comic.

[John Cribati]

Care to elaborate? I don't remember ever seeing any Avatar references in the comic.

He said something about a big scar on his face. Zuko had a big scar on his face, but so did about 500 other villains in various shows.

[rbetieh]

Yes its true that plenty of villains have scars on their faces, but the conversation was about forcing a confrontation with your father early, and the other shout-out was to Darth Vader. IMHO the reference to a "Big Burn on their face" (direct quote) is a shout out to Zuko based on the conversation at hand. Reference 763.

[Nevereatcars]

Unless Rich is a time wizard!


I believe the term you're looking for is "future psychic".

[Sunken Valley]

No, Avatars Sokka is inspired by Roy! Or they are opposites

Here is another similarity between them. If we exclude Haley they are both the only non-spellcaster in their party (Even though he has poor wisdom, Belkar could theoretically cast).

[Dr.Epic]

Roy isn't based on Sokka. Roy and Sokka are obviously somehow related. Roy's a stick figure so his features are simplified that's why it might not be so clear. As we've all seen from many previous threads, if there is even a slightest connection between two characters in this comic, they must be related.

[zimmerwald1915]

No, Avatars Sokka is inspired by Roy! Or they are opposites

Here is another similarity between them. If we exclude Haley they are both the only non-spellcaster in their party (Even though he has poor wisdom, Belkar could theoretically cast).
Not unless he's gained eight levels and put two points into Wisdom since his and Haley's first encounter with the MITD.

[LrdoftheRngs]

Not unless he's gained eight levels and put two points into Wisdom since his and Haley's first encounter with the MITD.

Hence the "theoretically" in the post you are referring to.

[faustin]

Stupid thread! Now I´m beginning to miss an Azula antagonist (or protagonist) to TOoS.

[rbetieh]

Stupid thread! Now I´m beginning to miss an Azula antagonist (or protagonist) to TOoS.

So now you want a daddys girl sorceress that specializes in lightning and fire attacks to show up in this comic?


Roy isn't based on Sokka. Roy and Sokka are obviously somehow related. Roy's a stick figure so his features are simplified that's why it might not be so clear. As we've all seen from many previous threads, if there is even a slightest connection between two characters in this comic, they must be related.

I think thats what it comes down to. Probably a common ancestor trope thats guiding these two characters.

[Klear]

I think thats what it comes down to. Probably a common ancestor trope thats guiding these two characters.

Hmmm... it seems the world "trope" has already replaced "archetype", much as "meme" replaced "fad". I think the originals were better =(

[faustin]

So now you want a daddys girl sorceress that specializes in lightning and fire attacks to show up in this comic?

WHAT?! That´s your view of one of the best western cartoon villainess of all times?! the perfect mixture between raw power, cunning displays, ruthless, resourcefulness, menacing badassery and psycho mind.... for shame rbetieh, for shame :smallmad:

[veti]

So now you want a daddys girl sorceress that specializes in lightning and fire attacks to show up in this comic?

Yeah, that'd be new (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html).

[fibonacciseries]

Could this mean Belkar is based on Aang? THey're both really comical and silly, have shaved heads, a fluffy pet, and are the shortest person on their team.

:belkar: Avatar State! Yip! Yip! Stab!

QFSA (Quoted For Sheer Awesome)

[Hiro Protagonest]

WHAT?! That´s your view of one of the best western cartoon villainess of all times?! the perfect mixture between raw power, cunning displays, ruthless, resourcefulness, menacing badassery and psycho mind.... for shame rbetieh, for shame :smallmad:

I like the other guy's description better.

[Sunken Valley]

I feel like if somehow Roy turns this battle around, he becomes an almost perfect Sokka (without boomerang, of course).

Ok back to lurking for me, what do you all think?

This has happened. It's official, Roy is Sokka

[rbetieh]

This has happened. It's official, Roy is Sokka

And how! A rather satisfying comic this was. And now he will be awarded a weapon with the returning property!

[Dvandemon]

{Scrubbed}


Hmmm... it seems the world "trope" has already replaced "archetype", much as "meme" replaced "fad". I think the originals were better =(

Along with the fascism confusion they seem to blur the lines through misinformation and became interchangeable at some point. I want to sig this