What if Real Life worked by RAW?

[Chess435]

I've heard discussions about applying Real Life Physics to D&D, but let's examine the flip side of the coin. What if you woke up one morning and realized that instead of the normal laws of reality, RAW was the guiding principle of the universe? (Would catgirls spontaneously reanimate? :smallwink:)

[IthroZada]

Cats would be kill on sight instead of pets.

[dextercorvia]

I'd trade in my RHD for a class level in a heartbeat.

[Xanmyral]

All scientist would suddenly be as strong as soldiers. Inversely, soldiers would be as skilled as those who focused in their profession.

As people get older, they get smarter, wiser, and more keen of eye and ear. Basically, the degeneration of the brain is reversed.

[OracleofWuffing]

Nobody would take a bath unless they were already dying.

[Honest Tiefling]

A utopia of no more alignment debates...Also, people would really respect religion. A lot.

[Bovine Colonel]

It'd be messy.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Cats would be kill on sight instead of pets.

That or everyone would have ranks in Handle Animal. All Ambulances, (Para)Medics, etc. would carry a drowning bucket in order to bring people to 0 HP regardless of their current state. All conversations would take less than 6 seconds. Instantaneous travel would be viable, given sufficient Horses and riding ability. Instantaneous communication would be viable, given sufficient commoners. Also, since falling is a free action, acceleration due to gravity would be brutal.

Then we come to the question of "Does Magic exist?" If it does, then we've got even more fun stuff - gems like "Conservation of Mass/Energy? What's that?!"


I'd trade in my RHD for a class level in a heartbeat.

You and me both.

[Psyren]

I'd never sleep again :smallbiggrin: As long as I'm not walking anywhere I won't get tired.

I'd also do my utmost to get PAO'ed into a Warforged.

@Drowning: What everyone forgets about "drowning to heal" is that once you start the process, nothing can stop it. Yeah you'll go to 0 hp in the first round, but the following round you go to negatives and the third you're dead. RAW, this happens no matter what is done to aid the victim.

[OracleofWuffing]

I'd also do my utmost to get PAO'ed into a Warforged.
I have not compiled a comprehensive "List of Races Into Which I Want to be Polymorphed," but I imagine I, too, would want to become a warforged at some point in time for a significantly long amount of time.

World hunger will be a lesser issue. I mean, don't get me wrong, even with the whole Create Food and Heroes Feast and whatnot, we'll still have some trouble getting food to where it needs to be until we set up the massive inter-commoner-railgun-net, but that's okay because you no longer die from hunger, you just get knocked unconscious.

...

:smalleek: "Decorating your prom with streamers" will take on an entirely different meaning.

Forget just about everything you know about economics.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm not 100% sure I'd want to step foot near any place with potential strife if clerics, druids, sorcerers, or heck, pretty much any class are running around.

[Arbane]

Serial killers would quickly become unstoppable.

[Honest Tiefling]

Serial killers who level up to eventually do Locate City Bombs :smalleek:

[Laura Eternata]

Romance would be so much easier. "Hey, wanna go out for coffee sometime?" -rolls Diplomacy check- "Sure, that sounds like fun, Miss Whoeveryouare!"

[Honest Tiefling]

"In other news, yet another unemployed musician has been sighted entering the White House. He has been declared the Chief of Staff earlier this afternoon. The president has also declared the man to be officially 'awesome'."

[Larpus]

I would realize how much my build sucks.

[Chess435]

I wpuld immeadiately start taking levels in Wizard. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

I'd go with Psion. Bat poop is hard to find in this town, and the expensive components are even worse.

Plus, it's more fun to have powers if nobody knows you have them; just ask Xavier ^ ^

[Honest Tiefling]

Imagine how zoos would look. People would keep trying to climb into the tiger cage, not because they were drunk but because they wanted to level. Other people would just be looking at everything to wildshape into it later. Wizards would be constantly taking the bat-poop. There would have to be magic everywhere to stop people from mind controlling the animals and making their own army.

...I just imagined the idea of an evil druid with an army of dolphins. That's not good.

[Chess435]

Meh, bat poop is overrated. That's what spell component pouches are for. Speaking of which...........:smallbiggrin:

[Honest Tiefling]

I would hope so. People are stealing metal already at pretty bad rates, no need to encourage them more because they get paid every time someone wants to do a sending.

Oh dear god, your mother using sending on you constantly to ask if you've given her grandchildren yet.

[Xanmyral]

I'd imagine that, unless you want to be stuck without spellcasting until you actually get the items, which for higher levels would be almost impossible I'd imagine unless you felt like spending hours, days, or even weeks finding the right item, people would take eschew materials. Would cost a feat, which would suck, but not having to handle all that random crap would save a lot of time.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Perpetual motion machines are just a Decanter of Endless Water away.

taking wizard levels? pfff, Three words for you (well actually one repeated) Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu.

Hey, you said if RL worked by RAW

[HappyBlanket]

Horses. Hundreds of horses. Allllll in a row.

[Psyren]

Horses. Hundreds of horses. Allllll in a row.

Horse railgun? Wouldn't that kill you?

[Dvandemon]

We would rapidly achieve Singularity. Slavery would have probably involved Elementals. Wars would cross planes and there would probably be colonies and refugees on every other plane.

[Cespenar]

Pi equaling 4 would end in a whole crapload of mathematical, physical and other consequences.

[Slipperychicken]

3.5 would be hailed as the most realistic system ever, WoTC would recieve nobel prizes for such a perfect game. Running businesses would be impossible, and economics just wouldn't work. I would retrain one of my feats to Wedded to History.


EDIT: Not to mention every single Science being F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition. Life wouldn't even resemble what we know and love, Evolution would have resulted in some horrific mess of inherited templates like the Emerald Legion or something...

[Ksheep]

The first person to take the "Self Aware Player Character" PRC (from the 3rd party book Bride of the Portable Hole) would destroy the world by effectively dividing by zero.

[HappyBlanket]

Horse railgun? Wouldn't that kill you?

Oh. Good point. Ahem: Bluff/Diplomacy check. Then horses. Hundreds of horses. Allllll in a row.

No. No it wouldn't kill me.
Why would it?

[Flame of Anor]

"In other news, yet another unemployed musician has been sighted entering the White House. He has been declared the Chief of Staff earlier this afternoon. The president has also declared the man to be officially 'awesome'."

I lol'd. Hard.

[Honest Tiefling]

...Evolution would have resulted in some horrific mess of inherited templates like the Emerald Legion or something...

Platypuses would be the result of wizards. They would also look quite normal next to all of the owlbears, bunnywolves, penguinlions, and ducksnakes and such.

[Tenno Seremel]

I'll trade all of my levels to Telepath and invest heavily into Profession (rules lawyer).

[Coidzor]

Charm Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm) would be... well... *ahem*

[Arbane]

Platypuses would be the result of wizards. They would also look quite normal next to all of the owlbears, bunnywolves, penguinlions, and ducksnakes and such.

Oh, yeah: The "Australian" template would be +3 LA. :smallbiggrin:

[Honest Tiefling]

I think the Australians might be dead, considering what mother nature throws at them without access to magic. It would be an epic level dungeon.

[Hazzardevil]

Well, I'd take Wedded to History. (what books that in again?)
And I'd also be a Artificer/Wizard into my homebrew prestige class the Artytheurge.

[hamishspence]

@Drowning: What everyone forgets about "drowning to heal" is that once you start the process, nothing can stop it. Yeah you'll go to 0 hp in the first round, but the following round you go to negatives and the third you're dead. RAW, this happens no matter what is done to aid the victim.

I'm told Stormwrack allows you to make a Heal check to stop drowning, as well:

"It's Wet Outside lets someone make a heal check to stop drowning."

[NineThePuma]

I think the Australians might be dead, considering what mother nature throws at them without access to magic. It would be an epic level dungeon.

So true.


Also, by now someone would have used the Locate City Wightocalyspse somewhere.

My money's on LA.

[Dvandemon]

I think the Australians might be dead, considering what mother nature throws at them without access to magic. It would be an epic level dungeon.

Obviously not; first you have the most likely epic Aboriginals, then you have the fact that Australia was likely the prison for all the epic criminals that couldn't be contained anywhere else. Once you reach epic Australia is the only place to level grind if you're feeling suicidal.

[Mr.Smashy]

Imagine some of the more terrifying spells:

Summon Monster/ Animal (dinosaurs)
Gate
Anything from BoVD....

Everyone run, its a stampede of Celestial Bison!

[Psyren]

I'm told Stormwrack allows you to make a Heal check to stop drowning, as well:

"It's Wet Outside lets someone make a heal check to stop drowning."

I just looked through Stormwrack and I can't find this. It only references the DMG entry on Drowning.

The SRD says you can use First Aid to stabilize someone at negative HP with a Heal check, so maybe that would work... but a literal reading would point out that you stabilize the character on round 2 and they still drown on round 3.

[noparlpf]

Well, I don't think I would be able to get out of bed half the time. I sleep in a lofted bed and wouldn't have put very many "ranks" into climb. Though I think last time I checked the climb DCs they're ridiculously easier than what they would be in real life. On the bright side, practically anybody could be a parkour master with climb DCs that low.

And if anybody has seen one or two of my other posts, of course I have to say this. I would be able to lift around twice what I currently can, and I would be able to jump about a quarter what I currently can. (Those two mechanics are so screwy. Apparently game designers are the indoorsy type.)

Also, I think people would die much more easily with the ridiculous abstraction that is HP. A few caltrops can kill a commoner, or (this estimate is based on carrying capacities, so it's a little silly, like I said before) someone with my strength could kill a commoner by punching them, without even taking Imp. UaS. (Because how many commoners are actually going to take that AoO? Seriously.)

And yeah...I think my overall common sense might decrease if the DM considered high Int, low Wis to still not be able to learn from past mistakes. We were sizing me up to give a newish player an idea of what the abilities equate to in real life, and they assigned me a Wis of 4.

But since RAW is kind of vague like all the time, who's going to adjudicate? Is there a DM? How do I brush my hair in the morning? Why do my glasses now count as a 5500 gp magic item? (Actually, probably more than a +5 to spot. I'm pretty bloody blind. But where's there a mechanic for eyesight that poor? I've only seen traits with +/- 1 to spot, I think, and "nearsighted" compensates with +1 search...which I'm too blind to even have. So do my eyes just get better so I only have a -1 spot/+1 search? Sweet deal.)

And yeah, if not for the clause about nat 1s not being an auto-fail for skill checks, doing anything would suck. A 5% chance of complete failure? That's a big chance.
(Though with the existing real-life "rules", "rolling a 1" still causes failure on plenty of skill checks it shouldn't by RAW based on the person's "ranks" in the skill; for example, I've tripped while jumping plenty of times when even with a roll of 1 I would have been able to make the jump, based on my typical jumping capability being around +22. Maybe that counts as failing a balance check. Hard to say. Who's the DM for Real Life?)

So when do I get to buy a periapt of wisdom and start taking levels of druid? I think that would be a better class choice than anything I can practice IRL, considering that's pretty much limited to "fighter"/"warrior", "expert", "aristocrat", "commoner", and maybe "barbarian", "rogue", or a few other nonmagical classes.

Wow, this got long.

Edit: Oh yeah, first I need a level of cleric or maybe a few paladin levels so I can turn undead. I really need to find out who the DM for Real Life would be so I can ask to be gestalt and take both paladin and druid simultaneously. I hate undead. Maybe I would be a radiant servant of Pelor instead.

[Darklord Bright]

If real life worked by RAW, we could assume that there would be a DM to arbitrate those rules. In such a scenario, "Rules Lawyers" would operate much more like the Agents from The Matrix, making sure those filthy powergamers don't keep winning the Olympics using exploits/loopholes in the wording.

[Vemynal]

I would quit Nursing school and trade my RHD for a level of Cleric

[Laura Eternata]

"In other news, yet another unemployed musician has been sighted entering the White House. He has been declared the Chief of Staff earlier this afternoon. The president has also declared the man to be officially 'awesome'."

That's brilliant. Mind if I sig that?

[Larpus]

Also, any man could literally kill himself while shaving if they rolled a 1.

A burly strong as hell general-type man wouldn't necessarily be more intimidating than street musicians who have high Cha and Intimidate.

[Whammydill]

You wouldn't be able to see the sun, due to the distance penalty to spot checks.

[noparlpf]

You wouldn't be able to see the sun, due to the distance penalty to spot checks.

Yeah, but it's REALLY, REALLY big. That's plus a gazillion for its size.

[Whammydill]

True, but the size modifier in the SRD caps out at Colossal I think? -1 per 10 feet, times 93 (or so) million miles. That's a -491,040,000,000 to the spot check!!!

[noparlpf]

True, but the size modifier in the SRD caps out at Colossal I think? -1 per 10 feet, times 93 (or so) million miles. That's a -491,040,000,000 to the spot check!!!

Oh yeah. They do do it that way, don't they. How can they possibly think that something could be even harder to miss the bigger it gets? Because I know that I've missed houses before, but those mountains are just as easy to hide as houses, right?

You win, by RAW.

[Wardog]

I'd be a multiclassed expert/monk, with Weapon Proficiency: Rifles, and most of my skill ranks in Knowledge:Random Stuff. And as such would be hideously gimped rather than impressively skilled.

[Whammydill]

Basically the planet would be renamed D'ehmfeeaht, instead of Earth

[Hazzardevil]

Obviously not; first you have the most likely epic Aboriginals, then you have the fact that Australia was likely the prison for all the epic criminals that couldn't be contained anywhere else. Once you reach epic Australia is the only place to level grind if you're feeling suicidal.

Come to think of it, the Aborigenees would have the class features of a barbarian of their HD, seeing as they are a different race.
Actually come to think it, it wouldn't be racist not liking the welsh anymore, seeing as all the countries will be different races.
We might all share the same subtype but that doesn't mean we all have bonus feats and skill points. (That would be reserved for the british.)
So the french would probably be Elves/Halflings. (With a penalty to AC against Gnomes.)
The Australians would be like Human's only a penalty of diplomacy with non Australians.
The Americans would be Dwarves.
The german's would be Gnomes.
The Japenese therefore must be Goblins because their too short to be Giant's and have had major wars with America.
I have just started the statting out of the Human race.

[Ksheep]

Come to think of it, the Aborigenees would have the class features of a barbarian of their HD, seeing as they are a different race.
Actually come to think it, it wouldn't be racist not liking the welsh anymore, seeing as all the countries will be different races.
We might all share the same subtype but that doesn't mean we all have bonus feats and skill points. (That would be reserved for the british.)
So the french would probably be Elves/Halflings. (With a penalty to AC against Gnomes.)
The Australians would be like Human's only a penalty of diplomacy with non Australians.
The Americans would be Dwarves.
The german's would be Gnomes.
The Japenese therefore must be Goblins because their too short to be Giant's and have had major wars with America.
I have just started the statting out of the Human race.

So... would the Spanish be Halflings then?

EDIT: And the Russians Half-orcs?

[Eric Tolle]

An average sword would cost $7,200.00.

Someone would try the "ladder to 10' staves" trick, only to find out that aluminum ladders make poor staves, and there isn't much of a market for 10' poles.

[Arbane]

An average sword would cost $7,200.00.

Someone would try the "ladder to 10' staves" trick, only to find out that aluminum ladders make poor staves, and there isn't much of a market for 10' poles.

What is this "market" you speak of? Everything has a fixed price, regardless of ease of manufacture or whether anyone's buying it.

[Douglas]

You wouldn't be able to see the sun, due to the distance penalty to spot checks.
Ah, but that penalty is only used for determining the distance at which an encounter begins. Unless you're trying to engage the sun in combat or otherwise have an "encounter" with it, this isn't a problem.

[Devmaar]

I would put on a blindfold and throw myself at the ground repeatedly until I failed my 50% miss chance for blindness and gained the ability of Dentian flight.

[NNescio]

Also, any man could literally kill himself while shaving if they rolled a 1.

A burly strong as hell general-type man wouldn't necessarily be more intimidating than street musicians who have high Cha and Intimidate.

Fumbles (aside from automatic misses [and nothing more] on attacks) aren't RAW.

[Honest Tiefling]

That's brilliant. Mind if I sig that?

My apologies for not responding sooner, and go ahead! I am glad that people got a kick out of it.

@NineThePuma: I think LA would be full of musicians and actors, which would then trade out RHD for bard levels for perform. I think the first Locate City Bomb is going to target San Francisco before all of the pagans and hippies get druid levels. Portland and Seattle (no offense) might also get the magical stink eye if too many people show up with bears...

Then again, I could see people from Seattle using the Locate City Bomb to take out any city that sends over priests to Washington because it would be the perfect place for vampires. I'm betting you people are sick of that.

Through the trick is to find breeding grounds for people who can trade out RHD for wizard levels (well, effectively that is) and find a way to thwart them.

Would people's um...Special gardens turn into pipeweed, I wonder?

[Sipex]

Would we actually have any commoners or guardsmen? Everyone would be a PC.

[Honest Tiefling]

I would assume that some people would be as not everyone might have the skills to get a PC class. I thought that was the reason PCs are better then everyone else in the game world: They often represent the cream of the crop.

[Kaeso]

1. Commoner railgun
2. Break the speed of light
3. ?????
4. Explore universe

[noparlpf]

Most ordinary people get NPC levels. That's why NPC classes exist. It's the above-average people who typically go out and become PCs. Even plenty of above-average people stick around with NPC levels. That's why a world with hundreds of epic characters is kind of silly (especially pure melee classes). When's the last time you took a sword and tried fighting a wolf? Good luck. It's hard to even make it to fighter level 5, forget epic.

[Kaeso]

Most ordinary people get NPC levels. That's why NPC classes exist. It's the above-average people who typically go out and become PCs. Even plenty of above-average people stick around with NPC levels. That's why a world with hundreds of epic characters is kind of silly (especially pure melee classes). When's the last time you took a sword and tried fighting a wolf? Good luck. It's hard to even make it to fighter level 5, forget epic.

But the thread deals with the situation wherein the world works by RAW, where even if you're a commoner or an expert you can fight weak creatures to earn exp and work yourself up to the wolf. You can also become smarter by fighting. Need to write a thesis on black hole theories? Just kill a few bears, level up and put some ranks in knowledge (astrophysics).

Also, let's not forget we have guns in our world, making leveling up much, much easier because you can oneshot most CR appropriate encounters.

[noparlpf]

But the thread deals with the situation wherein the world works by RAW, where even if you're a commoner or an expert you can fight weak creatures to earn exp and work yourself up to the wolf. You can also become smarter by fighting. Need to write a thesis on black hole theories? Just kill a few bears, level up and put some ranks in knowledge (astrophysics).

Also, let's not forget we have guns in our world, making leveling up much, much easier because you can oneshot most CR appropriate encounters.

I thought there were firearms in one of the books. Maybe that was a homebrew thing the DM put together for a pirate-themed adventure. They blew up on a nat 1. So I played a sorcerer/stormcaster instead of dealing with such things.

Well, if you really want to kill squirrels and puppies to level up, go for it. Good luck with ever taking levels in paladin.

[NNescio]

Why would most people want to take levels in Paladin anyway?

('though I see the point if it were Druids instead.)

[noparlpf]

Why would most people want to take levels in Paladin anyway?

('though I see the point if it were Druids instead.)

Druid too. I was just thinking that killing small, furry animals might count as evil.

To take levels in druid you'd probably end up protecting the local squirrel population from the local gamer population.

[Honest Tiefling]

Paladins would probably be protecting the gamer population from the squirrel population if there are a lot of druids around.

And if there are a lot of people trying to level with guns, it might be hard to find wildlife after a while. Through I wonder how much EXP I've gotten from fishing...

[noparlpf]

You can get also decent XP just from nonlethal combat. That's why sparring exists. I don't see any reason to kill small animals. Start with sparring and independent training, and then go for things like bears. But guns are cheating. (Do they even exist by RAW?)
(I personally consider ranged weapons in general to be cheap, but that's just me.)

[Ksheep]

You can get also decent XP just from nonlethal combat. That's why sparring exists. I don't see any reason to kill small animals. Start with sparring and independent training, and then go for things like bears. But guns are cheating. (Do they even exist by RAW?)
(I personally consider ranged weapons in general to be cheap, but that's just me.)

Guns can be found in the DMG, under the Campaign section for "alternate weapons" (or somesuch).

[noparlpf]

I knew I had seen guns somewhere. Thanks.

[NNescio]

Guns can be found in the DMG, under the Campaign section for "alternate weapons" (or somesuch).

Under "Renaissance weapons" or somesuch, IIRC.


You can get also decent XP just from nonlethal combat. That's why sparring exists. I don't see any reason to kill small animals. Start with sparring and independent training, and then go for things like bears. But guns are cheating. (Do they even exist by RAW?)
(I personally consider ranged weapons in general to be cheap, but that's just me.)

'Nonlethal' sparring with bears. In Siberia. Badass.

[randomhero00]

I'd assume I'd be a sorcerer. But since that's a bloodline type deal it may not work. If so I'll take a class level in psion and a-hunting I will go. Grizzly bears give pretty good experience. And since RAW doesn't care if a spell caster levels up using a pointed stick only, I'll use my rifle and kill wolves and bears. That should get me started nicely.

After that I'll use my knowledge and powers to quickly make money. Then form an organization for people with super powers. But really its just to keep an eye on them. Eventually I'll research a way to sort of auto-spy them and blow up their head from any distance if they're being murderers or what have you.

After that comes social change. No more religious wars. If one starts I destroy both sides.

No more racism. If someone makes a comment they get their tongue removed.

I'd get rid of most of the politicians. Start over there. Figure out a way to force people to vote.

Then I'd try to help the poor people with food, clean water, etc.

Then tackle the energy crisis. Figure out a good way to get off petrol.

I probably forgot a few things but that about sums it up.

[NNescio]

Then I'd try to help the poor people with food, clean water, etc.
Create Food and Create Water traps.


Then tackle the energy crisis. Figure out a good way to get off petrol.
Decanter of Endless Water-powered 'Perpetual' Motion Machines.

[noparlpf]

That's assuming that nobody else tried something similar. I'm sure plenty of people would.

I'd just be a druid. You can have your regime. I'll have my mountains and forests.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'd assume I'd be a sorcerer. But since that's a bloodline type deal it may not work. If so I'll take a class level in psion and a-hunting I will go. Grizzly bears give pretty good experience. And since RAW doesn't care if a spell caster levels up using a pointed stick only, I'll use my rifle and kill wolves and bears. That should get me started nicely.

After that I'll use my knowledge and powers to quickly make money. Then form an organization for people with super powers. But really its just to keep an eye on them. Eventually I'll research a way to sort of auto-spy them and blow up their head from any distance if they're being murderers or what have you.

After that comes social change. No more religious wars. If one starts I destroy both sides.

No more racism. If someone makes a comment they get their tongue removed.

I'd get rid of most of the politicians. Start over there. Figure out a way to force people to vote.

Then I'd try to help the poor people with food, clean water, etc.

Then tackle the energy crisis. Figure out a good way to get off petrol.

I probably forgot a few things but that about sums it up.

So kill all arguing people, mute all insulting people, force people to do stuff, and flowers and sunshine for the rest?

As for me, I'd be a warblade. As soon as I get IHS, I turn into the Avatar. The kind from TLA. What? It's RAW.

[Sir Homeslice]

I'll drown the world in quarterstaffs, one tree at a time.

[Kaeso]

I thought there were firearms in one of the books. Maybe that was a homebrew thing the DM put together for a pirate-themed adventure. They blew up on a nat 1. So I played a sorcerer/stormcaster instead of dealing with such things.

Well, if you really want to kill squirrels and puppies to level up, go for it. Good luck with ever taking levels in paladin.

Those firearms were ancient muskets, which were very, very deadly for their day but are outmatched by even todays simplest pistols.

[Piggy Knowles]

Everyone seems to love Decanter of Endless Water perpetual motion. The problem is, no one stops to think what adding a near-infinite amount of water will do to our ecosystem.

That's why I support undead-based perpetual motion. Because I care about the environment.

[noparlpf]

Those firearms were ancient muskets, which were very, very deadly for their day but are outmatched by even today's simplest pistols.

Well, find me a modern pistol in the rules and you can have it. We're talking about a world with RAW.


Everyone seems to love Decanter of Endless Water perpetual motion. The problem is, no one stops to think what adding a near-infinite amount of water will do to our ecosystem.

That's why I support undead-based perpetual motion. Because I care about the environment.

I agree. That's obviously much more eco-friendly.

[Kaeso]

Well, find me a modern pistol in the rules and you can have it. We're talking about a world with RAW.

depends on wether or not you believe DnD and D20modern take place in the same universe.

[noparlpf]

depends on wether or not you believe DnD and D20modern take place in the same universe.

The Material Plane is infinite and consists of an infinite number of worlds, right?

[Ksheep]

Well, find me a modern pistol in the rules and you can have it. We're talking about a world with RAW.

In the DMG, under "Building a Different World", it has a section on technology level. It has weapons from several different eras, including a set of oriental style weapons, renaissance firearms (pistol and musket, as well as a bomb (think grenade)), Modern era (automatic pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, and grenade launcher) and future (laser pistol, antimatter rifle, flamer, and laser rifle).

That said… I'd get me an Antimatter rifle and blow the head off anyone who comes close. 6d8 damage should drop most lower level characters, right?

[JBento]

Truth is, no-one would be able to do anything, because whatever you tried to do, people would say you can't because it's against your alignment.

[noparlpf]

In the DMG, under "Building a Different World", it has a section on technology level. It has weapons from several different eras, including a set of oriental style weapons, renaissance firearms (pistol and musket, as well as a bomb (think grenade)), Modern era (automatic pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, and grenade launcher) and future (laser pistol, antimatter rifle, flamer, and laser rifle).

That said… I'd get me an Antimatter rifle and blow the head off anyone who comes close. 6d8 damage should drop most lower level characters, right?

Oh hey, I didn't see that page. Turning pages is actually a great activity which I apparently usually don't think to do. I think I assume things end after only one page on them.

Well, an Antimatter rifle can fire once per round. You probably get one shot once they're in range before they get close to you (further away and you take distance penalties). What's your BaB and Dex? Do you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Antimatter rifle? Do you really want to rely on that single shot if your attack modifier isn't high enough?
They should have statted a sniper rifle. Range: over a mile. Damage: enough.


Truth is, no-one would be able to do anything, because whatever you tried to do, people would say you can't because it's against your alignment.

That's up to the DM to adjudicate. That's why I keep asking who the DM is in this situation.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The Material Plane is infinite and consists of an infinite number of worlds, right?

No. Only the outer planes are infinite.

[Ksheep]

Well, an Antimatter rifle can fire once per round. You probably get one shot once they're in range before they get close to you (further away and you take distance penalties). What's your BaB and Dex? Do you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Antimatter rifle? Do you really want to rely on that single shot if your attack modifier isn't high enough?
They should have statted a sniper rifle. Range: over a mile. Damage: enough.


Well… If I take Rapid Shot, I can get two shots off per round, and if I have Rapid Reload, I could reload as a free action. Add a Gnomish Crossbow Sight, and I can fire with no penalty for the first 3 range increments, or 360 feet. Even if the enemy was running, it would take at least 3 rounds for them to reach me. And I wouldn't mind taking a penalty for shooting at more than one range increment.

[noparlpf]

No. Only the outer planes are infinite.

The Manual of the Planes says that the Material Plane is infinite. Page 41.

[noparlpf]

Well… If I take Rapid Shot, I can get two shots off per round, and if I have Rapid Reload, I could reload as a free action. Add a Gnomish Crossbow Sight, and I can fire with no penalty for the first 3 range increments, or 360 feet. Even if the enemy was running, it would take at least 3 rounds for them to reach me. And I wouldn't mind taking a penalty for shooting at more than one range increment.

You must be very confident in your Dexterity.
Now, what if they're an invisible Barbarian with the Run feat and the Quick trait? And one level of Druidic Avenger gives them another +10 to their speed, assuming that having Fast Movement twice but from two different sources stacks.
Or what if they're a Monk? Those speed bonuses sure are something.

[randomhero00]

Truth is, no-one would be able to do anything, because whatever you tried to do, people would say you can't because it's against your alignment.

I'm chaotic neutral. :D I can do whatever I want.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm chaotic neutral. :D I can do whatever I want.

No, you're chaotic evil, you do whatever you want. People who call themselves CN to get away with stuff are CE.

[randomhero00]

No, you're chaotic evil, you do whatever you want. People who call themselves CN to get away with stuff are CE.

*writes* down IP address for the culling.

Just kidding.

But seriously, then who is CN?

If I was evil I think I'd be NE or LE because I have lines I don't cross. Never rape. Never take away free will of the individual. etc.

Sometimes I wish I was evil, life would be a lot more fun. But because it isn't, I'm fairly certain I'm not evil. Just personally strong willed.

[Flickerdart]

Well… If I take Rapid Shot, I can get two shots off per round, and if I have Rapid Reload, I could reload as a free action. Add a Gnomish Crossbow Sight, and I can fire with no penalty for the first 3 range increments, or 360 feet. Even if the enemy was running, it would take at least 3 rounds for them to reach me. And I wouldn't mind taking a penalty for shooting at more than one range increment.
Crossbow Sights are something like two months worth of wages for a talented and successful businessman.

[Ksheep]

Crossbow Sights are something like two months worth of wages for a talented and successful businessman.

Or, you know, I just loot the corpses of the people I kill with the rifle, use the monies I get from that to improve the rifle so it's easier to kill people with it.

[Raimun]

Also, let's not forget we have guns in our world, making leveling up much, much easier because you can oneshot most CR appropriate encounters.

Sure, low-level (meaning lvl. 1-2) encounters but not after that. Remember, guns would also work by RAW. A modern hunting rifle (from DMG) does mere 2d10 damage (crit. X2). You couldn't kill most bears (MM) with a rifle. The only bear you could kill with one shot would be a Medium-sized black bear (CR 2) but only if you rolled 19 or 20 damage. A Large brown bear (CR 4) would need the minimum of 3 shots. If you rolled two times in row the maximum damage and then 11-20 damage. Edit: Unless you scored critical(s).

It wouldn't even matter if you aimed the gun to shoot the creature in the head for instant death, unless the attack takes away their last hit points and the DM lets you describe its death (since it has no mechanical impact at that point and is therefore irrelevant by RAW but flavorful).

Also, if the animal were sleeping, you couldn't "coup de grace" it with one shot, unless you sneaked adjacent to it and shot it there.

[noparlpf]

I'm chaotic neutral. :D I can do whatever I want.

Most people are actually neutral, whatever they may think. You know that phenomenon (I forget what they call it) where people will stand by and watch someone getting beat up but won't step in (either to help the victim or the assailant)? That's a neutral trait (on the good-evil axis). (I could give other examples, but that would take a long time.) Likewise, most people aren't strongly chaotic or lawful, but somewhere in between. Sure, plenty of people do community service or the like, but most of those people aren't devoted enough to actually qualify as good. Maybe neutral good at best.

[Tenno Seremel]

Truth is, no-one would be able to do anything, because whatever you tried to do, people would say you can't because it's against your alignment.

Just be a true neutral druid. You can justify anything as long as you do it to save your squirrels in some way or another.

[randomhero00]

Apparently a lot of you haven't been hunting. Getting off three shots isn't that hard for someone trained. If you're down wind as you should be, the bear probably won't even know where you are. But even if he does, you should be several hundred yards out and up a tree or steep hill. Even if you only get him once, and he gets away, he'll bleed to death, and you can follow the trail.

edit SH*T that makes me a ranger, don't it :( lol

[dragonfire42]

I'd invest ranks into Craft(Homebrew) and Profession(DM).

[dragonfire42]

Diplomacy optimized Bard.
Basically, everyone won'ts to be my slave.
:smallamused:

[noparlpf]

Apparently a lot of you haven't been hunting. Getting off three shots isn't that hard for someone trained. If you're down wind as you should be, the bear probably won't even know where you are. But even if he does, you should be several hundred yards out and up a tree or steep hill. Even if you only get him once, and he gets away, he'll bleed to death, and you can follow the trail.

edit SH*T that makes me a ranger, don't it :( lol

Well, the stereotypical ranger is an ally and protector of nature like the druid. Hence the animal companion. So if you're shooting bears to level up, you're probably not a by-the-books-fluff ranger.

[randomhero00]

Well, the stereotypical ranger is an ally and protector of nature like the druid. Hence the animal companion. So if you're shooting bears to level up, you're probably not a by-the-books-fluff ranger.

I can't recall very clearly, but I could have sworn rangers where big on hunting game.

edit i think youre thinking of druids

ps i never play rangers tho so im not sure

[Raimun]

Apparently a lot of you haven't been hunting. Getting off three shots isn't that hard for someone trained. If you're down wind as you should be, the bear probably won't even know where you are. But even if he does, you should be several hundred yards out and up a tree or steep hill. Even if you only get him once, and he gets away, he'll bleed to death, and you can follow the trail.

edit SH*T that makes me a ranger, don't it :( lol

Hehheh... yes. That's how it works in actual real life but read the thread title.

By RAW the bear wouldn't bleed to death, unless you got it to -1 hp. At that point the bear would cease moving and there wouldn't be a trail of blood to follow. :smallamused:

Edit: I guess you could track a moving bear but by RAW, you wouldn't get bonuses to your survival skill if the bear has lost hit points.

[Flickerdart]

Or, you know, I just loot the corpses of the people I kill with the rifle, use the monies I get from that to improve the rifle so it's easier to kill people with it.
And how much money do you imagine the average guy will have? Not much more than you, that's for sure. You'll need to go after actual dangerous targets to gain XP and treasure, which means other guys kitted out as well as you are.

[noparlpf]

I can't recall very clearly, but I could have sworn rangers where big on hunting game.

edit i think youre thinking of druids

ps i never play rangers tho so im not sure

Rangers are described as hunters, but I generally interpret that as hunters of unnatural creatures (standard monsters).
"An experienced ranger has such a tie to nature that he can actually draw upon natural power to cast divine spells, much as a druid does." (PHB pg. 46)
I've always thought of them as protectors of nature and hunters of unnatural things or of that which destroys nature, but also as protectors of civilization from nature.
Different people have different interpretations of what classes are like. (Let's please not turn this thread into another "Immutability of Class Fluff" argument.)

[Honest Tiefling]

And how much money do you imagine the average guy will have? Not much more than you, that's for sure. You'll need to go after actual dangerous targets to gain XP and treasure, which means other guys kitted out as well as you are.

That, or you need to take ranks in a skill to hack credit and debit cards. I wonder if you can even do that, since normal DnD doesn't have rules for it. Less identity theft, I guess?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Rangers are described as hunters, but I generally interpret that as hunters of unnatural creatures (standard monsters).
"An experienced ranger has such a tie to nature that he can actually draw upon natural power to cast divine spells, much as a druid does." (PHB pg. 46)
I've always thought of them as protectors of nature and hunters of unnatural things or of that which destroys nature, but also as protectors of civilization from nature.
Different people have different interpretations of what classes are like. (Let's please not turn this thread into another "Immutability of Class Fluff" argument.)

Um...

animals

Rangers aren't afraid to hunt. That's the natural order of things.

[Flickerdart]

Rangers are described as hunters, but I generally interpret that as hunters of unnatural creatures (standard monsters).
"An experienced ranger has such a tie to nature that he can actually draw upon natural power to cast divine spells, much as a druid does." (PHB pg. 46)
I've always thought of them as protectors of nature and hunters of unnatural things or of that which destroys nature, but also as protectors of civilization from nature.
Different people have different interpretations of what classes are like. (Let's please not turn this thread into another "Immutability of Class Fluff" argument.)
Ranger can take Favored Enemy Animal, so he can be as much a hunter of beasts as a hunter of monsters or men.

Edit: Ranger'd

[noparlpf]

And how much money do you imagine the average guy will have? Not much more than you, that's for sure. You'll need to go after actual dangerous targets to gain XP and treasure, which means other guys kitted out as well as you are.

Go after celebrities. Their wealth is wayyy above standard wealth by level.

[Flickerdart]

Go after celebrities. Their wealth is wayyy above standard wealth by level.
Ok, and they aren't using their wealth to buy protective items and hire bodyguards why?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Edit: Ranger'd

Because rangers are better ninjas than ninjas!

[OracleofWuffing]

Instead of being on the news, they would instead report the scandal that [POLITICIAN] knows somebody who [I]gasp has Martial Adept class levels.

[noparlpf]

Um...

animals
Rangers aren't afraid to hunt. That's the natural order of things.

Huh. I never noticed that. I guess you're right. That's not how I usually think of them, but I guess there can be all sorts of different types of rangers.

[noparlpf]

Ok, and they aren't using their wealth to buy protective items and hire bodyguards why?

I doubt most celebrities like the kind I'm thinking of know enough about D&D to realize they can buy magic items to protect themselves. And sure, most of them have bodyguards. But I doubt many bodyguards know enough of D&D rules to realize they can take class levels. They'll just be low-level NPCs. That's not too hard to deal with.

[Flickerdart]

Instead of being on the news, they would instead report the scandal that [POLITICIAN] knows somebody who [I]gasp has Martial Adept class levels.
Gasp! Surely that means their campaign is funded by Japanese interests! :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Instead of being on the news, they would instead report the scandal that [POLITICIAN] knows somebody who [I]gasp has Martial Adept class levels.

No no, it would be that the politician's a bard with charm person and max ranks in diplomacy. Maybe even *gasp* mass suggestion!

[Honest Tiefling]

Why not psionics to dominate people? Through politics would be more interesting if they were forced to all use Perform (Singing) or Perform (Dance).

And think of the *ahem* scandals.I have the image of a thri-keen in pink lingerie in my head now.

[Flickerdart]

And think of the *ahem* scandals.I have the image of a thri-keen in pink lingerie in my head now.
Nymph's Kiss and Lichloved feats. :smallwink: :smalleek:

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, I guess it would make political scandals more interesting, but then doctors in clinics would probably need mind bleach for stories as to where these afflictions originated from. As in, someone would have to research a spell named mind bleach.

EDIT: That is, assuming that all of the world's doctors haven't run off to spar with people to try to trade out their RHD for cleric or wizard levels.

[Ksheep]

Why not psionics to dominate people? Through politics would be more interesting if they were forced to all use Perform (Singing) or Perform (Dance).

The problem of course would be that they choose to use Perform (Oratory)… and nothing would have changed. They could say absolutely nothing in such an inspiring way that we'd follow them to the ends of the Earth to defend it.

Then again, you'd have those politicians who instead use Perform (Weapon Drill)… and that's a whole other can of worms.

[Honest Tiefling]

That is why you pass laws that all speeches, hearings and discussions must happen in song and dance form.

What would be worse is fire performances, but luckily you do not automatically fail on a 1.

[OracleofWuffing]

No no, it would be that the politician's a bard with charm person and max ranks in diplomacy. Maybe even *gasp* mass suggestion!
Naw, that's how [INSERT TINFOIL HAT CONSPIRACY GROUP] would run the government behind the scenes. :smallbiggrin:


Well, I guess it would make political scandals more interesting, but then doctors in clinics would probably need mind bleach for stories as to where these afflictions originated from. As in, someone would have to research a spell named mind bleach.
Well, keep in mind that diseases are usually Fort based, so people would get infected less. And also, no need for research, you just need to get past the anti-[evil] agenda to cast Mindrape.

[Merk]

Professional wrestling is never invented because the rules for grapple are too complicated.

[NNescio]

The problem of course would be that they choose to use Perform (Oratory)… and nothing would have changed. They could say absolutely nothing in such an inspiring way that we'd follow them to the ends of the Earth to defend it.

Then again, you'd have those politicians who instead use Perform (Weapon Drill)… and that's a whole other can of worms.

Perform (Weapon Drill) requires access to Iron Heart Surge.

[Chess435]

Professional wrestling is never invented because the rules for grapple are too complicated.

Announcer: "He's on the top ropes, here comes the Jump Check! Oh, a natural 20! That's got to hurt!"

[Flickerdart]

Perform (Weapon Drill) requires access to Iron Heart Surge.
No, that's Perform (Drill Weapon).

[Ksheep]

Perform (Weapon Drill) requires access to Iron Heart Surge.

No, anyone can use it. However, re-reading it, it turns out that a Bard cannot use Perform (Weapon Drill) to perform his Bardic Music abilities.

[noparlpf]

No, anyone can use it. However, re-reading it, it turns out that a Bard cannot use Perform (Weapon Drill) to perform his Bardic Music abilities.

Really? What if he uses a sword with grooves cut into it so that it makes different notes when he swings it at different speeds and angles?

[Hiro Protagonest]

No, anyone can use it. However, re-reading it, it turns out that a Bard cannot use Perform (Weapon Drill) to perform his Bardic Music abilities.

Iron Heart Surge ends that.

[noparlpf]

Iron Heart Surge ends that.


...select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately.
Page 66ish.

I haven't seen this before, so I just looked it up. Does that include effects like gravity? And it says the effect ends...not just for the character, the effect just ends. Period. Is that a viable RAW interpretation?

[NNescio]

I haven't seen this before, so I just looked it up. Does that include effects like gravity? And it says the effect ends...not just for the character, the effect just ends. Period. Is that a viable RAW interpretation?

Yes. Of course, it's as viable as the commoner/horse railgun, but still.

[Ksheep]

I haven't seen this before, so I just looked it up. Does that include effects like gravity? And it says the effect ends...not just for the character, the effect just ends. Period. Is that a viable RAW interpretation?

That would be a viable interpretation. That's why a lot of people say that it's totally broken when going by RAW.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Hiro Protagonest]

I haven't seen this before, so I just looked it up. Does that include effects like gravity? And it says the effect ends...not just for the character, the effect just ends. Period. Is that a viable RAW interpretation?

No. But it's what happened. "Other condition" can mean anything, so anything that lasts six seconds or more can be IHS'd.

[noparlpf]

Yes. Of course, it's as viable as the commoner/horse railgun, but still.

I'd say the commoner railgun is pretty viable. A similar effect can also be achieved with the Truenamer utterance Speed of the Zephyr and a suitably long wall.

So you can end effects like mortality, or being human, or gravity, or the need to breathe? What if you end the effect "not having Str 50"?

[NNescio]

I'd say the commoner railgun is pretty viable. A similar effect can also be achieved with the Truenamer utterance Speed of the Zephyr and a suitably long wall.

So you can end effects like mortality, or being human, or gravity, or the need to breathe? What if you end the effect "not having Str 50"?

Here's a series of escalating posts from another thread: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204572)


Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh


And the sequel:
Step1:Vampire Warblade.
Step2:Belt of battle.
Step3:Take a step into the sun.
Step4:Activate belt of battle (2 charges for standard action).
Step5:Iron heart surge.
Step6:???
Step5:Laugh


Next sequel:

Step 1: Be a living organic Warblade.
Step 2: Get a Wizard buddy.
Step 3: Teleport into space. (No, things don't just go kablooey in space, and suffocation takes some time.)
Step 4: Iron Heart Surge
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Laugh


Not nihilistic enough.

Step 1: Be an incorporeal warblade.
Step 2: Iron Heart Surge the Material Plane.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Laugh.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Here's a series of escalating posts from another thread: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204572)

I have some too!

452. Iron Heart Surge does not remove the condition "dead".

453. Or the condition "alive".

454. Or the condition "surrounded by incompetent fools".

455. Or the condition "has only two arms".


456. Or the condition of "has to meet feat prerequisites".

457. Or the condition of "can't be any level I want".

458. Or the condition of "isn't a god".

459. Or the condition of "can't wield a sword by holding it with my mouth".


460. Or the condition of " not having Iron Heart Surge on ".


461. Or the condition "Isn't rich enough"

462. Or the condition "The rest of the party is mad at me"

463. Or the conditions "Isn't immune to X"


464a. Iron Heart Surge does not remove the condition "No more ToB for you".


478. Iron Heart Surge doesn't remove the condition "isn't Roronoa Zoro".

479. Or the condition "can't cut through entire ships and buildings with one slash".

480. Or the condition "doesn't have the sword skills of Mihawk and Zoro combined".

481. Or the condition "isn't Fire Lord Zuko".

482. Or the condition "isn't the Avatar".


483. Whatever I'm thinking about saying, Iron Heart Surge doesn't do that.

[noparlpf]

Here's a series of escalating posts from another thread: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204572)

Sweet. I like it.

[noparlpf]

I have some too!

I can see why those made it onto that thread. I like it.

[Honest Tiefling]

Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.

[noparlpf]

Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.

Then you can just remove the condition of the player "not having AC 5000". Because Iron Heart Surge can affect the player too, since the player's mental condition affects the character; hence, the player's pain and blunt force head trauma affect the character and can be removed.

[Honest Tiefling]

I think if there was a DM of real life, your strategy would either make them explode or weep.

[Flame of Anor]

Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.

This is going in my sig, if you don't mind.

[Honest Tiefling]

Go right ahead! My ego is getting very stroked by this thread.

[Pokonic]

If the world worked by RAW

Cat owners are feared and prosicuted by everyone, and cat ladys are some of the most powerful Druids around.

Grabbing anyone visably slows down time around the person, as reality attempts to remember how the grappling rules work again.

Lunitics wandering around, breaking into peoples homes and taking there stuff are a major issue for any town, for there aften very powerful and screaming " I am a PC! Leave me in peace!'

Martial arts movies become a whole lot cooler.

Every goverment position is filled with Rouges and Bards. Nothing realy changed,

LcB is the new nukes.

Most menile jobs are handeled by the undead or golems.

Your average man on the streets may be a commener or a Barbarien with all his rages left. Take caution.

[Honest Tiefling]

As a question, has anyone ever gotten the commoner rail gun to work with cat ammunition?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Cat owners are feared and prosicuted by everyone, and cat ladys are some of the most powerful Druids around.

"They called me mad, mad I say! Said I could never train cats. But now I have ranks in handle animal, and training a cat is just as easy as training a dog under these rules!"

If it were like this, I would be an outcast druid or ranger, on the run, gathering as many stray cats as possible with my wild empathy ability, to save them from death. I have a good enough wisdom score (at least 14) to be a druid or ranger. I would multiclass a level of wizard so I could have the alarm spell, plus grease and some other stuff is useful. Wish I could multiclass sorcerer, but that's why there's the spell mastery feat, since I don't have high enough charisma.

[Xanmyral]

-Snip-

I seem to recall an ACF for a wizard illusionist, that allows them to treat all illusion spells learned as if under the Spell Mastery Feat. So, if your book is lost you can still recant illusions. Better then nothing...

Now for my addition.

"Tattooists start getting increased business by strange people who point at non-nonsensical markings in books. This doesn't really phase them however, as most assume it's just some sort of henna tattoo."

"A group of alleged terrorists today assaulted several hidden government buildings today, leaving said buildings ransacked and defiled with graffiti. Key witnesses say that it was a shadowy group lead by a floating suit."

"Breaking news, we have discovered a vital document to said alleged group, but police are having difficulty deciphering it. Comments about the document were scarce, but some comments have been made. 'We do not yet know what this means, but it is labeled as Shadow Builds. So far, we have discovered that this build, probably some hideout, is lead by self-proclaimed beguilers and shadowdancers, what ever those are.'"

[Flame of Anor]

Every goverment position is filled with Rouges and Bards.

misspelling! thog rage!


"Breaking news, we have discovered a vital document to said alleged group, but police are having difficulty deciphering it. Comments about the document were scarce, but some comments have been made. 'We do not yet know what this means, but it is labeled as Shadow Builds. So far, we have discovered that this build, probably some hideout, is lead by self-proclaimed beguilers and shadowdancers, what ever those are.'"

"Crack government agents are currently retraining their skill ranks into Decipher Script and attempting to take 20."

[hamishspence]

Most people are actually neutral, whatever they may think. You know that phenomenon (I forget what they call it) where people will stand by and watch someone getting beat up but won't step in (either to help the victim or the assailant)? That's a neutral trait (on the good-evil axis). (I could give other examples, but that would take a long time.) Likewise, most people aren't strongly chaotic or lawful, but somewhere in between. Sure, plenty of people do community service or the like, but most of those people aren't devoted enough to actually qualify as good. Maybe neutral good at best.

"Good" means "makes personal sacrifices to help strangers" but a good person might not be especially physically brave.

Similarly "hurting and oppressing others" is common enough, that I would say evil alignment is not significantly less common than Neutral alignment.

So while I'd agree with "neutral is the most typical alignment" I am a bit more dubious about "most people are Neutral".

[NNescio]

Every goverment position is filled with Rouges and Bards.


misspelling! thog rage!


I've heard that it can be a very overpowdered class.

[Eldan]

I would put on a blindfold and throw myself at the ground repeatedly until I failed my 50% miss chance for blindness and gained the ability of Dentian flight.

I'm not sure you can throw yourself. Use Fling Ally instead and teach your children to fly.

[Username_too_lo]

Mr Smith, I have some news.

Oh, God, is it my son?

I'm afraid that the wounds he sustained took him below 0 Hit Points, and he failed his Fortitude Save.

No! My Boy!

There was, however, a Druid on hand, who had fortuitously memorised an appropriate spell this morning.

You mean, he was raised from the dead?

Ehh, not exactly.

[Kobold enters] DADDYY!!

Agh! Kill it! I don't care if it's below my CR and I don't get any xp; kill it with fire!

[Soranar]

History would be really complicated.

-Caesar would never have conquered Gaul. (You really think a bunch of fighters could handle barbarians led by druids?).

-Egyptian pharaoh/demigods might still be around...

-Neanderthals might still be around...

-The crusades would have been EPIC (dimension door, teleport, World War 1 happened before the first millenium).

-most men, and some women, would plug their ears and kill every last bard on earth (death to diplomancers would be a rallying call)

-AMF would be mandatory in any government building

[Necroticplague]

History would be really complicated.

-Egyptian pharaoh/demigods might still be around...

-AMF would be mandatory in any government building

-They are, and they can give you the ability to turn into a scorpion. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a)

-To counteract this, terrorist organization would be a large cooperation of archivists, wizards, and StP erudites working to get every spell as a power from all lists.

[Eldan]

-They are, and they can give you the ability to turn into a scorpion. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a)

-To counteract this, terrorist organizations would be a large cooperation of archivists, wizards, and StP erudites working to get every spell as a power from all lists.

We prefer the term science activist, Sir!
:smallwink:

[shadmere]

Can't seem to find online. . . what does RHD mean?

[noparlpf]

Can't seem to find online. . . what does RHD mean?

I assumed it was racial hit dice. (I could be wrong. I guessed.)

[Socratov]

wishes would be fulfilled, universities and schools would just be granting you ranks in knowledge skills, books would be read more efficiently, and by permanenciïng tongues on everyone everyone would understand all languages. Also factotums and chameleons would be insanely overpowered (as would indeed diplomacy and the glibness spell)

[OracleofWuffing]

-most men, and some women, would plug their ears and kill every last bard on earth (death to diplomancers would be a rallying call)
Don't forget that Diplomancers can also snag that prestige class that lets you switch a different skill check for a perform check (it is the basis of the Jumplomancer, one of the most beholden of Diplomancers), so plugging your ears effectively does nothing to protect you.

HE IS MOVING SILENTLY, LET US PROCLAIM HIM OUR NEW GOD!

[Necroticplague]

Interesting fact: space in dnd is non-euclidean. The rules support this in 3.x, and it's explicitly stated in 4e. If you go by dnd's "square=circle" logic, then pi=4, and the square root of 2=1 (since the distance corner to corner of a circle is the same as its side.

[noparlpf]

Interesting fact: space in dnd is non-euclidean. The rules support this in 3.x, and it's explicitly stated in 4e. If you go by dnd's "square=circle" logic, then pi=4, and the square root of 2=1 (since the distance corner to corner of a circle is the same as its side.

@_@

Oh dear.

While simpler, that definitely messes up a lot of things.

[Flame of Anor]

-Caesar would never have conquered Gaul. (You really think a bunch of fighters could handle barbarians led by druids?).

Nah, man, the legionaries were totally Crusaders.

[Honest Tiefling]

75% of historians and archaeologists are researching what classes people were in the past. 95% of papers published are regarding who could have kicked whose butt and who was very badly optimized.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Nah, man, the legionaries were totally Crusaders.

Only the centurions. The other legionaries were fighters, which has been lowered to NPC status and the warrior class is gone entirely.

The Gauls were warblades, or fighters who put at least one feat into martial study. And at level 1, Stone Bones is better than Steely Resolve. Plus Steel Wind helped take down multiple enemies. Sadly, the Gauls had a habit of using Steely Strike, leaving them vulnerable to the enemy.

Edit: @^: Guess I'm a historian than.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Considering my heritage I'd definitely be a barbarian. (What? Viking descendant for the win. XD) Obviously I'd also invested in becoming literate.

As for the house cats, of course they wouldn't be killed on sight, they'd be trained to deal with those plagues of rats and other vermin. Since by raw rats travel in groups of 10-100, which is far worse for a commoner than a cat.

No one would ever make fun of badgers with the badger song again.

Cat ladies would quickly be countered by dog breeders. (By raw the cat might actually be better to hit yes, but it does 1d2-4 claw dmg and 1d3-4 bite damage. The dog while not being as good at hitting can actually do damage (1d4+1 bite dmg.))

[Flickerdart]

Considering my heritage I'd definitely be a barbarian. (What? Viking descendant for the win. XD) Obviously I'd also invested in becoming literate.

As for the house cats, of course they wouldn't be killed on sight, they'd be trained to deal with those plagues of rats and other vermin. Since by raw rats travel in groups of 10-100, which is far worse for a commoner than a cat.

No one would ever make fun of badgers with the badger song again.

Cat ladies would quickly be countered by dog breeders. (By raw the cat might actually be better to hit yes, but it does 1d2-4 claw dmg and 1d3-4 bite damage. The dog while not being as good at hitting can actually do damage (1d4+1 bite dmg.))
Dogs have twice a cat's CR, so two cats are equal to one dog. The dog does an average of 3.5 damage with its bite - a cat does 3 damage, and there's two of them, and they're more likely to land hits.

[OracleofWuffing]

75% of historians and archaeologists are researching what classes people were in the past. 95% of papers published are regarding who could have kicked whose butt and who was very badly optimized.
You know, there's also going to be a significant percentage of Diamond Barons who have nothing better to do than True Resurrect the parties involved to test these publications.

There's also an implied quest hook in Manual of the Planes regarding flying around the Temporal Energy Plane fast enough to reverse the flow of time, and while the text says it's unproven, that doesn't exactly mean no. :smalltongue:

[NikitaDarkstar]

Dogs have twice a cat's CR, so two cats are equal to one dog. The dog does an average of 3.5 damage with its bite - a cat does 3 damage, and there's two of them, and they're more likely to land hits.

Yet cats, by RAW are either solitary (or domesticated), dogs are solitary or packs (5-12). It's more likely that you have multiple dogs than cats, unless you have some sort of handler for them, and then the crazy cat lady still needs to have twice as many cats than the dog breeder dogs. And two cats needs to hit a dog with all three of their attacks to take one dog down. One dog can kill a cat in one attack. (A cat has an average of 2 hp, a dog does an average of 3 dmg.)

Mans best friend continues to be mans best friend. ;) (And we might want to stop here, or move to another thread or we'll end up derailing this one... really, the only reasons cats are so feared by commoners is because they would attack a commoner.. a dog is loyal! :P)

[NNescio]

You know, there's also going to be a significant percentage of Diamond Barons who have nothing better to do than True Resurrect the parties involved to test these publications.

There's also an implied quest hook in Manual of the Planes regarding flying around the Temporal Energy Plane fast enough to reverse the flow of time, and while the text says it's unproven, that doesn't exactly mean no. :smalltongue:

True Resurrection can't bring back people who have died of old age.

Of course, this is less clear on people who have died of other causes in the far past, but it should be kosher since they don't technically age while dead.

[Frozen_Feet]

If you're sufficiently knowledgeable and intelligent, you can recall whole lifestory of a priorly unknown person from the top of your hat. Due to the aforementioned way old people become wiser as they age, this means not only will your parents and teachers be absurdly good at recalling all the embarrassing things you did, they become better at it.

... wait... this doesn't sound too unlike the norm after all. :smalltongue:

Oh, and via application of magic, we can get correct answer to the question "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?".

[Necroticplague]

Murders will never be mystery as long as any of the following are true, thanks to divination:
1:People never knew/suspected it took place.
2. Their isn't an urban legend about it.
3:The head is still intact ( it can come seperate from body).
4.Their are any rocks, plants, or anything natural.
5:A diety could have seen it.

[Honest Tiefling]

If you're sufficiently knowledgeable and intelligent, you can recall whole lifestory of a priorly unknown person from the top of your hat. Due to the aforementioned way old people become wiser as they age, this means not only will your parents and teachers be absurdly good at recalling all the embarrassing things you did, they become better at it.


That, or they'll just use their charisma increases to make stuff up and pretend its true and get others to believe it.

[noparlpf]

True Resurrection can't bring back people who have died of old age.

Of course, this is less clear on people who have died of other causes in the far past, but it should be kosher since they don't technically age while dead.

No, but you can use Reincarnate or Last Breath (druid spells). They give you a "young adult" body. If you want to live forever, just commit suicide with a druid standing by and have them use Last Breath. If you want to be human again, go find someone to cast Miracle on you to get you back to normal (that shouldn't be out of line with the power level of Miracle).

[NNescio]

No, but you can use Reincarnate or Last Breath (druid spells). They give you a "young adult" body. If you want to live forever, just commit suicide with a druid standing by and have them use Last Breath. If you want to be human again, go find someone to cast Miracle on you to get you back to normal (that shouldn't be out of line with the power level of Miracle).

Still won't work on people who have already died of old age.

Now, I do agree that this is probably the most cost-effective way to extend your lifespan, but that's not the original issue (resurrecting dead people from the past.)

[Vacant]

Oh man would I ever take levels of druid so hard I can't even punctuate how hard I would do it

[noparlpf]

Still won't work on people who have already died of old age.

Now, I do agree that this is probably the most cost-effective way to extend your lifespan, but that's not the original issue (resurrecting dead people from the past.)

True.

What are the limits on Revenance (Spell Compendium)? I think it might only be rounds per level after death...

Wish or Miracle. It only costs a bunch of XP.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Still won't work on people who have already died of old age.

Now, I do agree that this is probably the most cost-effective way to extend your lifespan, but that's not the original issue (resurrecting dead people from the past.)

Did you read Reincarnation's description? It says it can brung back even people who died of old age.

[NNescio]

Did you read Reincarnation's description? It says it can brung back even people who died of old age.

You mean this part?


A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age.

[noparlpf]

Did you read Reincarnation's description? It says it can brung back even people who died of old age.

I literally just picked up my PHB. It specifically says (last line before the table) that it can't bring back a creature that has died of old age. It does work for up to a week after death, though. Last Breath is better because there's no level loss, but the time after death is limited to within six seconds.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You mean this part?

Alright, I'm sitting here. In front of me is the 3.5 PHB and the PF core rulebook. This is why I thought you could bring someone back if they died of old age, because that's the PF version of the spell.

[noparlpf]

Alright, I'm sitting here. In front of me is the 3.5 PHB and the PF core rulebook. This is why I thought you could bring someone back if they died of old age, because that's the PF version of the spell.

That's convenient. I haven't actually gotten around to checking that version out yet.

[OracleofWuffing]

Still won't work on people who have already died of old age.
Too bad that all the historic people said documents would be about would have died before the 3.5 rules went into effect... Meaning, by RAW, they didn't die of old age: there hasn't been a secret roll for maximum age, nor have they reached their maximum age. Needless to say, they also would have died from reasons other than old age, as old age in and of itself doesn't specifically cause death in real-world land.

That's setting aside the popularity of awesome people who died far before their time, which I personally believe would make the majority of topics, but your mileage may vary.

[Necroticplague]

Lets see, some figures we could bring back, since we know they didn't die of old age:Adolf Hitler(shot himself), Cleopatra(unkown, likely poisoned), Abraham Lincoln(shot), Julius Ceasear(stabbed, bled out), Elvis Presley(CON drain due to drug overdose), Blackbeard (decapitated), Pablo Escobar (shot),Grigori Rasputin (hypothermia).

On a semi related note: Hospital recovery times would be much quicker. Even if a man is brought to -9, as long as he is stabilized, he benefits from natural healing. Even assuming a level 1 character, a day of bed rest is 2 hp (even assuming their simply stabilized, then ignored, this can be raised with other peoples heal checks). So as long as they are still alive, the most someone can be in the hospital for is 5 days. And ability damage would only keep you for 8 hours, since your ability can never go below 0, so after 8 hours of rest, you'll regain one point of your ability, have an ability of 1, and be able to get back up.

Also, people would become more productive. Only spellcasters/psionicicists/meldshapers have to rest to use their abilities, everyone else functions fine without sleep, since their are no rules for lack of sleep.

[Hiro Protagonest]

We can't bring back people like Julius Caesar or Vercingetorix (that's one crazy name) because they've been dead for more than 2000 years. We need someone with over 200 levels in cleric to get that.

[Honest Tiefling]

I would think the Pope or the Dalai Lama qualify.

And personally, I would try to find a way to bring back Theodore Roosevelt, clone him, and then train him to be a druid. Not sure which spells would work.

Clearly what this country (Or any country) needs is a wildshaped Theodore Roosevelt as a bear riding a larger bear and summoning other bears while shooting a gun that shoots out more bears.

[OracleofWuffing]

We can't bring back people like Julius Caesar or Vercingetorix (that's one crazy name) because they've been dead for more than 2000 years. We need someone with over 200 levels in cleric to get that.
They're funded by diamond barons, I think that they can wait a few days while someone levels up. After all, Clericzilla's ready and willing to fight all day against non-dispelling monsters.

Come to think of it, I guess this would put Deadliest Warrior in the obsolete bin. And it'd be a whole lot more accurate, too!

GASP we could give Amelia Earhart another shot at flying around the globe! This time without a plane!

[Necroticplague]

We can't bring back people like Julius Caesar or Vercingetorix (that's one crazy name) because they've been dead for more than 2000 years. We need someone with over 200 levels in cleric to get that.

Oops, I forgot the 10 year/ level limit.

[Flickerdart]

I would think the Pope or the Dalai Lama qualify.

And personally, I would try to find a way to bring back Theodore Roosevelt, clone him, and then train him to be a druid. Not sure which spells would work.

Clearly what this country (Or any country) needs is a wildshaped Theodore Roosevelt as a bear riding a larger bear and summoning other bears while shooting a gun that shoots out more bears.
Teddy was more of a Ranger - the only way he was one with nature was when his fist would punch through a wild animal. :smallbiggrin:

[Honest Tiefling]

Hence the training in druid. I make no claim that he used to be a druid of any sort. I guess a wildshaping ranger with the bear gun is acceptable, but he would need items to summon in more bears most likely.

[Dragonsoul]

That's convenient. I haven't actually gotten around to checking that version out yet.

Still,all you have to do is wait 'til you ding into venerable and Stab yourself while your Druid buddy looks on, just make sure you've earned 1,000gp in the meantime.

Of course you keep your mental stats, just in time to collect more bonuses from ageing-->Druids are the most powerful beings on the planet, Immortal, all wise and all knowing.

[noparlpf]

Still,all you have to do is wait 'til you ding into venerable and Stab yourself while your Druid buddy looks on, just make sure you've earned 1,000gp in the meantime.

Of course you keep your mental stats, just in time to collect more bonuses from ageing-->Druids are the most powerful beings on the planet, Immortal, all wise and all knowing.

Can druids take Craft Contingent Spell, or whatever that feat is called? Because then they wouldn't even need a druid buddy. They could do it all on their own.

[Necroticplague]

Can druids take Craft Contingent Spell, or whatever that feat is called? Because then they wouldn't even need a druid buddy. They could do it all on their own.

Yes, but it takes a whole freaking lot of xp, though you have a long amount of time to regain the xp.

[Dragonsoul]

and Geas is cheaper:smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

Yes, but it takes a whole freaking lot of xp, though you have a long amount of time to regain the xp.

I had a killoren druid character once who was over 300. (I seem to recall that most killoren get reincarnated at around 150, but I could be remembering incorrectly.) His thing was that he went around Awakening plants to talk to them and learn from them, which was why he was only a 16th level druid at 308 years old. (Trees are more interesting to talk to when they're smart than by using spells to talk to them.)
Of course, allowing killoren to attain venerable bonuses when they don't reach venerable was a houserule because not continuing to gain mental bonuses after all that life experience doesn't make sense.

Craft Contingent Spell [Item Creation]
You know how to attach semipermanent spells to a creature and set them to activate under certain conditions.
Prerequisite: Caster level 11th
Benefit: You can make contingent any spell that you know. Crafting a contingent spell takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price (spell level x caster level x 100 gp). To craft a contingent spell, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half the base price. Some spells incur extra costs in material components or XP (as noted in their descriptions), which must be paid when the contingent spell is created. See Contingent Spells, page 139, for more information.

Complete Arcane page 77.

So for a druid to make Last Breath cast on him contingent on his death, it would cost him ((4x7x100)/2)+500=1.900 GP, and 56 XP. (You can craft items at a lower CL than your own; the minimum CL for Last Breath is 7.)

And Geas isn't on the druid spell list.

[druid91]

Truth is, no-one would be able to do anything, because whatever you tried to do, people would say you can't because it's against your alignment.

My alignment is about as close to chaotic evil as any sane functioning member of society can be.

Give me D&D power? That sanity thing goes out the window and I go over the edge.


I'd assume I'd be a sorcerer. But since that's a bloodline type deal it may not work. If so I'll take a class level in psion and a-hunting I will go. Grizzly bears give pretty good experience. And since RAW doesn't care if a spell caster levels up using a pointed stick only, I'll use my rifle and kill wolves and bears. That should get me started nicely.

After that I'll use my knowledge and powers to quickly make money. Then form an organization for people with super powers. But really its just to keep an eye on them. Eventually I'll research a way to sort of auto-spy them and blow up their head from any distance if they're being murderers or what have you.

After that comes social change. No more religious wars. If one starts I destroy both sides.

No more racism. If someone makes a comment they get their tongue removed.

I'd get rid of most of the politicians. Start over there. Figure out a way to force people to vote.

Then I'd try to help the poor people with food, clean water, etc.

Then tackle the energy crisis. Figure out a good way to get off petrol.

I probably forgot a few things but that about sums it up.

Wonderful! D&D world and now a BBEG to go with it? All I need is five trustworthy companions and I'm good to go.

[ericgrau]

Everyone would ride to work on commoner railguns, and no one would get hurt b/c moving fast doesn't have any damaging effects.

[Ksheep]

If a business owner is famous and is based out of a city, his business will never be effected by bad weather or natural disasters.

Conversely, if a business owner is not famous and is located in the middle of nowhere, he will never be forced to pay protection money and (if his business is failing) will be immune to unexpected tax increases.

[Dimers]

(pre-edit: this will probably get shot down via the Stronghold Builder's Handbook or some such, but it's worth a try.)

There's no listed price for lead, so the DM sets the price. A wise DM would set it very, very high indeed, because lead is much more useful than gold. You might find alchemists trying to turn gold into lead ... or wizards PAOing it.

[NNescio]

If a business owner is famous and is based out of a city, his business will never be effected by bad weather or natural disasters.

Conversely, if a business owner is not famous and is located in the middle of nowhere, he will never be forced to pay protection money and (if his business is failing) will be immune to unexpected tax increases.

Doesn't the DMG II's business rules have businesses burning down terribly often or something?

[Ksheep]

One could purchase endangered animal young for as little as 200 GP (Rhinoceros mount in Arms and Equipment Guide)

[Ksheep]

Doesn't the DMG II's business rules have businesses burning down terribly often or something?

It's on the Business-related encounter chart, which is "roll a d20 and add these modifiers", which is what that other stuff is. Living in a metro gives +3, being famous gives +2… and fire is a 6 on that table. So the famous person in the big city would have to roll a 1… unless his business was booming, in which case he'd get another +1 and be immune from fires as well.

EDIT: Looks like both the person in the big city and the person in the middle of nowhere are equally likely to have bad competition.

[Chess435]

It's on the Business-related encounter chart, which is "roll a d20 and add these modifiers", which is what that other stuff is. Living in a metro gives +3, being famous gives +2… and fire is a 6 on that table. So the famous person in the big city would have to roll a 1… unless his business was booming, in which case he'd get another +1 and be immune from fires as well.

EDIT: Looks like both the person in the big city and the person in the middle of nowhere are equally likely to have bad competition.

Have another .07 of an internet. :smallbiggrin:

[Eric Tolle]

One could purchase endangered animal young for as little as 200 GP

Which, when converted to current gold prices, comes out to $96,000 dollars. Start saving your pennies now.

[Eric Tolle]

As long as we're talking economics, note that the current economy would be non-existent, because all professions would pay the same, and only skill would make a difference. Likewise, all trade would grind to a halt, since all items would cost the same no matter where they're made. Out would all be like some hippy's dream.

[Wardog]

"Good" means "makes personal sacrifices to help strangers" but a good person might not be especially physically brave.

Similarly "hurting and oppressing others" is common enough, that I would say evil alignment is not significantly less common than Neutral alignment.

So while I'd agree with "neutral is the most typical alignment" I am a bit more dubious about "most people are Neutral".

I thought humans officially had "no preference for any particular alignment", which (I assume) would mean there would be an equal number of people with each alignment.

Indeed, just as humans are the base-line for attributes, maybe they can be seen as the baseline for alignment as well. The evilest third are by definition Evil (or Evil by definition represents the behaviour of the evilest third of humanity), the "goodest" third define Good, and the intermediates define Neutral. Ditto for Law/Chaos.

[Tyndmyr]

I've heard discussions about applying Real Life Physics to D&D, but let's examine the flip side of the coin. What if you woke up one morning and realized that instead of the normal laws of reality, RAW was the guiding principle of the universe? (Would catgirls spontaneously reanimate? :smallwink:)

Dude, I'd be rejoicing, and taking levels in wizard, then exploiting my way to xp.

[Ksheep]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

[Rogue Shadows]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

Depends on how you define "computer," I guess.

At the very least I do not think you could make a cost-effective computer.

[noparlpf]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

This?

‎
Premise: Undead you command can follow basic commands such as "Kill anyone who enters this room but me" or similar.

This means that undead can follow commands like, if anyone enters this room kill them. This can be stated as "If X, then Y", hey presto we have ourselves a logic gate.

Next we take another zombie, actually another couple hundred zombies (or wight, or whatever method you have used to produce arbitrary amounts of controlled undead) and we have them base their "if X, then Y" on each others actions. With enough Zombies we just built ourselves a computer.

The next step is to move this to our own private demiplane where time runs super fast. When you have a problem just planeshift there and punch it in to the "keyboard" (read, talk to your specially trained lich operator), so your computer can start solving.

So now we have created our undead supercomputer, what to call it? I think Deep Rot.

Blah silly rule about post length minimums.
Why is the word "minimums" instead of "minima"? In math classes they always called it "minima".

Edit:

Depends on how you define "computer," I guess.

At the very least I do not think you could make a cost-effective computer.

A computer is that which can compute.
Cost effectiveness isn't too big of a deal. Just set some wights on the local population, and then start taking control of them once they're undead.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

Hm, if you could research your own spells (which is RAW), then you could come up with the right combination of spells to make computers magic powered (like a self-made spell + permanency).

[Rogue Shadows]

Why is the word "minimums" instead of "minima"? In math classes they always called it "minima".

Evolution of language is based on people being too lazy to actually speak their language correctly, for the most part.

Spanish, for example, is just for the most part badly spoke Latin and Arabic. French is just badly spoken Latin and German. German itself is an amalgmation of badly spoken languages, and Latin itself is badly spoken Etruscan. English is just badly spoken.

Well, laziness, and a lack of education.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, but trust me when I say it explains a lot.


A computer is that which can compute.

By that definition, then yes, probably. Then again by that defintion Stonehenge is a computer.

Most people have slightly higher standards of what constitutes a computer. Like...a pocket calculator, at least.

[noparlpf]

Evolution of language is based on people being too lazy to actually speak their language correctly, for the most part.

Spanish, for example, is just for the most part badly spoke Latin and Arabic. French is just badly spoken Latin and German. German itself is an amalgmation of badly spoken languages, and Latin itself is badly spoken Etruscan. English is just badly spoken.

Well, laziness, and a lack of education.

This is not necessarily a bad thing.


By that definition, then yes, probably. Then again by that defintion Stonehenge is a computer.

Most people have slightly higher standards of what constitutes a computer. Like...a pocket calculator, at least.

Really? Because I consider an abacus to be a primitive computer. I'm old-fashioned.
(I answer posts from the bottom up.)

Well excuse me, my good sir. I do declare that I speak the goodest English I have heard in a right long age.
Yeah, languages change over time. Usually deterioration due to laziness or improper education. I personally consider it to be a negative effect. For one thing, I can't understand half of what kids these days write (omg txtng lolz) or say.

[Rogue Shadows]

Yeah, languages change over time. Usually deterioration due to laziness or improper education. I personally consider it to be a negative effect. For one thing, I can't understand half of what kids these days write (omg txtng lolz) or say.

Yeah, but then I don't get to show off my amature knowledge of linguistical evolution.

Two examples. Latin has no actual word for "yes." The closest is sic est, roughly translated as "it is thus," and the negative of that being sic non est, "it is not thus."

Over time as the plebs began speaking Latin poorly and the Patricians started speaking Greek to show off, sic est was shortened to just sic, and then eventually, to just si, with a funny little accent on the i.

Obviously, you can see that sic non est was eventualy shortened to just non and then, in many cases, to no.

Second example - in Catholocism, the priest has the "magic" ability to turn simple bread into the Body of Christ. How does he do this? When does this actually happen? Simple - when he holds up the bread and says "this is the body." Only in older times Church was always in Latin, so instead he would say hoc est corpus. Ta-da! With these "magic" words, the normal bread becomes the Body of Christ.

Say hoc est corpus 5 times fast. Sound familiar? The "magic" words that transform bread into the body of Christ? Hocus pocus!

[noparlpf]

Yeah, but then I don't get to show off my amateur knowledge of linguistic evolution.

Two examples. Latin has no actual word for "yes." The closest is sic est, roughly translated as "it is thus," and the negative of that being sic non est, "it is not thus."

Over time as the plebs began speaking Latin poorly and the Patricians started speaking Greek to show off, sic est was shortened to just sic, and then eventually, to just si, with a funny little accent on the i.

Obviously, you can see that sic non est was eventually shortened to just non and then, in many cases, to no.

Second example - in Catholicism, the priest has the "magic" ability to turn simple bread into the Body of Christ. How does he do this? When does this actually happen? Simple - when he holds up the bread and says "this is the body." Only in older times Church was always in Latin, so instead he would say hoc est corpus. Ta-da! With these "magic" words, the normal bread becomes the Body of Christ.

Say hoc est corpus 5 times fast. Sound familiar? The "magic" words that transform bread into the body of Christ? Hocus pocus!

I knew about the si/no thing (though I couldn't remember the Latin words; I've never studied Latin). I hadn't heard (or didn't remember) where "hocus pocus" came from. That's really funny.

[Ksheep]

This?

Yep, that's the one. Would probably be a really slow computer... unless you place it on another plane with an accelerated time frame. Of course, if that was the case it would be extremely expensive, what with such a high level spell needed to make the plane for it to be on.

[Tyndmyr]

Hm, if you could research your own spells (which is RAW), then you could come up with the right combination of spells to make computers magic powered (like a self-made spell + permanency).

Hey there. Thanks to prestidigitation, contingency, and arcane fusion, we've already designed a Turing complete system based on magic. Topic came up perhaps a year or two back.

Note that since contingency apparently happens instantly when the conditions are filled, speed of processing is arbitrary.

Yeah, I could totally do that.

[noparlpf]

Yep, that's the one. Would probably be a really slow computer... unless you place it on another plane with an accelerated time frame. Of course, if that was the case it would be extremely expensive, what with such a high level spell needed to make the plane for it to be on.

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting. And if you're naturally talented enough to reach a level where you can create your own demiplane, you can regain any XP you spent on it without too much difficulty.


Hey there. Thanks to prestidigitation, contingency, and arcane fusion, we've already designed a Turing complete system based on magic. Topic came up perhaps a year or two back.

Note that since contingency apparently happens instantly when the conditions are filled, speed of processing is arbitrary.

Yeah, I could totally do that.

But the undead computer is the only reason I can think of for undead to exist. Otherwise I have to go back to thinking that all undead should be destroyed. And that would be racist (although justified).

[Rogue Shadows]

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting.

Although you're going to be spending a lot of money on diamonds...

[Ksheep]

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting. And if you're naturally talented enough to reach a level where you can create your own demiplane, you can regain any XP you spent on it without too much difficulty.

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

[Tyndmyr]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

It's ok...those of us who are wizards will have them. And we'll be able to break WBL horribly. So, it'll work out in the end.

[noparlpf]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

Anyone with Fabrication can apparently double their wealth infinitely. That's what I heard yesterday or the day before, anyhow.

[Rogue Shadows]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.

[noparlpf]

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.

We got from binary computers up to the present day in a very short period of time. On your high-speed demiplane, you can probably do it (even using undead as the on/off switches for the binary) in a week.

[Tyndmyr]

Anyone with Fabrication can apparently double their wealth infinitely. That's what I heard yesterday or the day before, anyhow.

Well, anything that can be created via Creation spells, any wood, any iron, etc...can then be fabricated into a finished product.

I feel like this would not be a poor world.

[Rogue Shadows]

We got from binary computers up to the present day in a very short period of time. On your high-speed demiplane, you can probably do it (even using undead as the on/off switches for the binary) in a week.

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

[Ksheep]

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

[noparlpf]

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

I don't have any undead. Nor do I have access to a demiplane with advanced speed. I'm a second level barbarian, not a high/epic level caster.


I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

Casters have illusion spells that can create images. Just make the output (image) based on some sort of input from the computer. Let's assume we have a high level wizard doing this. Crazy Int. He could figure it out.

[NowhereMan583]

I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

Items that can cast contingency-triggered Dancing Lights, set up in a grid, could form a very large monitor. If we're doing that with undead as well, we could just arm a bunch of Fine zombies with Eternal Wands of Dancing Lights (or some similar item, customized so undead can use it... I seem to recall mindless creatures can't use wands) and get the same effect.


Casters have illusion spells that can create images. Just make the output (image) based on some sort of input from the computer. Let's assume we have a high level wizard doing this. Crazy Int. He could figure it out.

This would be a pain to automate, though; you'd have to have a separate trigger (hence a separate Contingency-triggered illusion) for every possible input. That's why you simplify it down to a pixel array, so your undead and/or contingency spells only have to know "red", "green", "blue", and "off".

[OracleofWuffing]

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.
Don't worry, once there's even one person who gets their hands on a Deck of Many Things, Solitaire (and every other card game) will greatly drop in popularity. :smalltongue:

Edit: Oh, hey, I got your D&D computer that will run Starcraft 2.


Nolzur’s Marvelous Pigments: These magic emulsions enable their possessor to create actual, permanent objects simply by depicting their form in two dimensions.
And the art degree holder rejoices!

[noparlpf]

Items that can cast contingency-triggered Dancing Lights, set up in a grid, could form a very large monitor. If we're doing that with undead as well, we could just arm a bunch of Fine zombies with Eternal Wands of Dancing Lights and get the same effect.

While we're at it, just make it simpler. Get a horde of zombies. Give each a large, square colored card. Have them hold them over their heads depending on the output. You now have pixels. Scry on a point above the horde, looking down at it. You have your graphics.

[NNescio]

While we're at it, just make it simpler. Get a horde of zombies. Give each a large, square colored card. Have them hold them over their heads depending on the output. You now have pixels. Scry on a point above the horde, looking down at it. You have your graphics.

Mandatory T-shirt for your horde:

http://ompldr.org/vOWwzaA/undead_inside_t_shirt-p235123874149867655qzj3_400.jpg

[Xanmyral]

Why not use skeletons though? Zombies can only take a standard action, or a move action per round, while a skeleton can take a full action. Less HD you would need to control as well. I imagine the smell wouldn't be as bad as well.

... How many undead would be necessary for this to actually work though? Enough for a high level wizard to do it by themselves, or would we need to get a Dread Necromancer involved? Would Dread Necromancers now be another term for IT guy?

[noparlpf]

Why not use skeletons though? Zombies can only take a standard action, or a move action per round, while a skeleton can take a full action. Less HD you would need to control as well. I imagine the smell wouldn't be as bad as well.

... How many undead would be necessary for this to actually work though? Enough for a high level wizard to do it by themselves, or would we need to get a Dread Necromancer involved? Would Dread Necromancers now be another term for IT guy?

I've never looked at undead creatures' stats, largely on principle. I hate undead things. So sure, skeletons would be better.
I met a necromancer once who was very well-built. He had all kinds of feats and stuff. He wouldn't have made a good IT guy. IT has to have at least a little bit of a customer service aspect...this guy killed everybody and made them into undead servants. (I was playing a Radiant Servant of Pelor at the time. I one-shotted his zombie white dragon with a greater turning. Then a party member turned on me and killed me. I hate being the only non-evil party member.) Anyhow, this guy was just a cleric I think. But you could get some dread necromancers involved. You would need a LOT of undead.

[OracleofWuffing]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

[noparlpf]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

Make a custom Wondrous Item with Persistent Image as the spell prereq.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

Permanency, if the great DM in the sky allows it (it's RAW that the DM can allow other spells nor listed to be permanency'd).

[noparlpf]

Permanency, if the great DM in the sky allows it (it's RAW that the DM can allow other spells nor listed to be permanency'd).

Since you can get several lower-level illusions made permanent, I don't see why this wouldn't be allowed by a DM. They might limit the applications, though.

[Ksheep]

Persistent Image says that it follows a script, but it does not say that it responds to stimuli, so not sure how to get the "computer" to talk with the "monitor" without re-casting the spell every time it runs a new process. This would make it hard to have an interactive ability, although it would work great for computer-generated cut-scenes.

Also, if you COULD figure out the input issue, if the image had to be re-cast with the results of the input, you would not see the results of your input for 6 seconds. Unless the persistent image is ALSO in the demi-plane that you're scrying into. At that point, however, it would be easier just to have the zombies/skeletons with colored cue cards.

Of course, this all depends on how you interpret "script"…

[OracleofWuffing]

Persistent Image says that it follows a script, but it does not say that it responds to stimuli, so not sure how to get the "computer" to talk with the "monitor" without re-casting the spell every time it runs a new process.
"When the user places his finger on the "Power" button on that piece of wood, call boot(). After boot() has returned null, call display(desktop). Draw New Cursor at position(0,0), create thread(subCursor) /* Calls the cursor subroutine, which updates the Cursor's X and Y coordinates to correspond with the way the user moves the rock. Also, when user taps his finger on the rock, tell the mother thread to run subClick(Cursor.x,Cursor.y). */ Wait for further user input."

And so on. :smallbiggrin: Keep in mind that the operating system that you're using right now is effectively one big "script" written in advance for handling user input and basic functions of a computer. The bonus part is that the hardware is all an illusion, so not only do you no longer have to worry about the whole driver mess, but your RAM, Hard Drive, and CPU are unlimited.

[Hiro Protagonest]

How would it handle the Internet?

[OracleofWuffing]

How would it handle the Internet?
It's a really good illusion. :smalltongue:

But in terms of actual discussion? In a super RAW world where illusions are just known and accepted as illusions, there actually isn't anything stopping one computer from accessing certain input from any other computer in the world. If you really, really wanted to stretch things far enough, you would have wireless global internet out of the box for free.

...

Buuut, knowing how people would cling to their old ways as much as they can, for the first hundred years or so, you'd probably have to buy illusory modems and routers for that functionality.

[Ksheep]

"When the user places his finger on the "Power" button on that piece of wood, call boot(). After boot() has returned null, call display(desktop). Draw New Cursor at position(0,0), create thread(subCursor) /* Calls the cursor subroutine, which updates the Cursor's X and Y coordinates to correspond with the way the user moves the rock. Also, when user taps his finger on the rock, tell the mother thread to run subClick(Cursor.x,Cursor.y). */ Wait for further user input."

And so on. :smallbiggrin: Keep in mind that the operating system that you're using right now is effectively one big "script" written in advance for handling user input and basic functions of a computer. The bonus part is that the hardware is all an illusion, so not only do you no longer have to worry about the whole driver mess, but your RAM, Hard Drive, and CPU are unlimited.

Yes, I understand that, hence me saying "depends on what it means by script". The example that is given is more of a script for a play, not a set of conditional code. However, since we are going by RAW, either interpretation is valid, as all it said is "script". One of the problems when using words with multiple meanings.

[OracleofWuffing]

One of the problems when using words with multiple meanings.
It's also one of the best things about working by RAW. :smallwink: I remember there was another thread once where someone thought about using Knock to open someone's thoracic cavity... Because it's a chest.

[Ksheep]

If the world worked according to RAW:
Chime of opening would be in every ER in the nation.

[Flame of Anor]

If the world worked according to RAW:
Chime of opening would be in every ER in the nation.

You're assuming there are still such things as ERs. Instead, all we have is EMTs (i.e. low-level clerics and paladins) to stabilize patients, then ambulances (or, for the well-supplied responders, teleports) to the nearest temple for cure and remove disease spells. Everything is outpatient!

[Ksheep]

You're assuming there are still such things as ERs. Instead, all we have is EMTs (i.e. low-level clerics and paladins) to stabilize patients, then ambulances (or, for the well-supplied responders, teleports) to the nearest temple for cure and remove disease spells. Everything is outpatient!

Question is, does cure remove projectiles from the body? You may still need to open someone up to remove the half-dozen arrowheads imbedded in their lungs.

[OracleofWuffing]

Don't forget that the Rogues, Warlocks, and Artificiers can help with wands of Lesser Vigor. Arguably, they'll save more people per day. Also Monks with cross-classed UMD.

But before we get too creative with this, no, opening someone's chest via Knock doesn't do any damage. The target merely walks around with an open chest until it's Arcane Locked shut. Or maybe Mending shut, on the premise that we're still mending a chest, but that one isn't so explicit.


Question is, does cure remove projectiles from the body? You may still need to open someone up to remove the half-dozen arrowheads imbedded in their lungs.
Ammunition that hits its target is rendered destroyed or useless, so they don't even stick in there unless otherwise noted. Even if they did stick in there, there's typically not a penalty to having an arrowhead in your lung.

[Ksheep]

Well, there is the burrowing arrow from CW, which prevents natural healing until it's removed. Removing it deals 1d8 damage. However, magical healing WILL expel it, dealing damage with it… which give me an idea for a character now…

However, there are no rules for what happens to ammunition after it is "destroyed", so I guess that means it just disappears and isn't important…

However, I just thought of something a BBEG might do. Use knock to open up someone, fill their chest with Alchemist's Fire, heal them, and then send them toward the enemy. Any piercing or slashing damage would cut the skin, exposing the AF to the air. Suicide bomber explodes in the face of whoever hit them unless it was a ranged attack. (Insert "but the AF would have been exposed to air when it was put into the guy's chest". So, how does one make it in the first place? You'd have to mix it together before you can put it in the vial. I think the easiest way around that is to say that there is a short curing time that must pass before it's ready).