Ursus the Grim
2011-07-19, 10:17 PM
Incoming tl;dr. So I warned you.
So here's the background. Two days ago, I had a sinking feeling my group was headed for a TPK in the Bastion of Unborn Souls. Converted from 3.0, the Half-Fiend Great Red Wyrm Ashardalon clocks in at CR 30. The party previously consisted of only a Rogue/Thief Acrobat, Cleric/Celestial Mystic, and Bard/Seeker of the Song. Occasionally a Death Slaad Assassin and Sorceror/Effigy Master would drop in, but it was looking like the Sorceror wasn't going to show up for the final showdown. All level 20.
The Sorceror and Cleric were the only two halfway optimized, and I was fine with that, but now they're fighting something tough and the party insisted I don't pull the punches. I warned them that technically, the DMG thinks I'm crazy for throwing this at them but they insisted that, knowing what it was and being able to go nova they would get through it. After all, I had referred to the Cathezar as 'ridiculously OP' and they beat her in three rounds.
Consider the next sentence carefully enough and I'll know people are hearing it from the collective groan heard around the world.
My fiancee has asked if she can help them out.
She, however, has little experience playing.3.5. She asked if I could make a character for her. I agreed.
Here is an excerpt of the conversation.
Melee fighter, spellcaster, ranged fighter to start with.
melee
Simple but a little weak or strong but complicated. Or a combination thereof.
what is simple?
Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, certain Druids, and a boatload of prestige classes.
what is ranger?
Like Aragorn from LotR. You'd use two weapons and wear lightish armor but have a sidekick animal and some spells (both fairly weak).
i want a friend but strong
Druid would be best for that, but I can make a ranger get there. Oh, or a Paladin with a special mount.
can i be evilish?
Maybe a blackguard.
ok
So it was decided that I'd make a Blackguard for her with a strong mount aspect. Thanks to my infection by optimization and my fear of a TPK, I thought making her a hit and run charger would be best. I tried to restrict cheese, took a strict interpretation of raw and a harsh use of logic. No Leap Attack, for instance, or FB dip.
Next thing I know, I have an abomination on my hands. Judging by my calculations, Damage Per Round over 100 rounds is about 207. Not too bad, I suppose, though its about twice as much as any of the others have done in one round. Confirmed criticals (60 percent of all crits, and she threatens on a 19 or 20) deal an average of 685 damage. Yes, I am using the multiplier stacking rules and no, I didn't account for increased chance to hit and more damage when she uses her Shadowbane Inquisitor Smite. Maximum possible damage on a crit is 865 points. The charging pouncing Fiendish Dire Lion stacks on another 50 or so damage, a number low because of a low attack bonus.
I have no doubt that Ashardalon could still wipe the party. I also have no doubt he will quickly snatch up the lion and devour it, thus nerfing the crazy mounted charge thing.
However, the issue still stands of the Blackguard's crazy glass cannon damage. I don't want my players calling me on "DM's Girlfriend" and while one might accept "I'm just decent at making characters" as an excuse, the others sure as hell won't. But I think they need that spike in damage to get through this, and every attack going after the lion or the Blackguard's sidekick is one less attack going after them.
I mean, it doesn't help that the Blackguard has more sneak attack dice than the rogue, better HP than the cleric, and better saves than any of them.
Exacerbating the problem is that this is going down Thursday, so little time to rebuild a similar character. The party is on unsteady ground because of conflict between two of the others, so I want to wrap it up before it remains unfinished forever.
Right now, I'm thinking of leaving the build as is, letting her deal her 200 or so damage, and then having Ashardalon eat the lion. Then eat the effigy bear. Then eat the zombie. Then eat the NPC Slaad. That would take some of the damage off the important things in play. I'd have to endure a brief outcry of "WTFBBQ NOT FAIR" before I 'fix it' by eating the lion. Though the BBEG has Awesome Blow, Snatch and Swallow, a 30 foot reach, and a +52 attack bonus, lack of Combat Reflexes means he only gets to interrupt one person's action, and I don't have a guarantee that the Blackguard will be the first one to get within that range. Nor do I want to change how I've been deciding AoO's all campaign.
Thoughts? Is it okay to leave a high-op character in a mid to low-op party as long as I reduce the overshadow of that character swiftly?
Edit: Note that Ashardalon has 1000 hp and I have planned out his tactics already.
So here's the background. Two days ago, I had a sinking feeling my group was headed for a TPK in the Bastion of Unborn Souls. Converted from 3.0, the Half-Fiend Great Red Wyrm Ashardalon clocks in at CR 30. The party previously consisted of only a Rogue/Thief Acrobat, Cleric/Celestial Mystic, and Bard/Seeker of the Song. Occasionally a Death Slaad Assassin and Sorceror/Effigy Master would drop in, but it was looking like the Sorceror wasn't going to show up for the final showdown. All level 20.
The Sorceror and Cleric were the only two halfway optimized, and I was fine with that, but now they're fighting something tough and the party insisted I don't pull the punches. I warned them that technically, the DMG thinks I'm crazy for throwing this at them but they insisted that, knowing what it was and being able to go nova they would get through it. After all, I had referred to the Cathezar as 'ridiculously OP' and they beat her in three rounds.
Consider the next sentence carefully enough and I'll know people are hearing it from the collective groan heard around the world.
My fiancee has asked if she can help them out.
She, however, has little experience playing.3.5. She asked if I could make a character for her. I agreed.
Here is an excerpt of the conversation.
Melee fighter, spellcaster, ranged fighter to start with.
melee
Simple but a little weak or strong but complicated. Or a combination thereof.
what is simple?
Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, certain Druids, and a boatload of prestige classes.
what is ranger?
Like Aragorn from LotR. You'd use two weapons and wear lightish armor but have a sidekick animal and some spells (both fairly weak).
i want a friend but strong
Druid would be best for that, but I can make a ranger get there. Oh, or a Paladin with a special mount.
can i be evilish?
Maybe a blackguard.
ok
So it was decided that I'd make a Blackguard for her with a strong mount aspect. Thanks to my infection by optimization and my fear of a TPK, I thought making her a hit and run charger would be best. I tried to restrict cheese, took a strict interpretation of raw and a harsh use of logic. No Leap Attack, for instance, or FB dip.
Next thing I know, I have an abomination on my hands. Judging by my calculations, Damage Per Round over 100 rounds is about 207. Not too bad, I suppose, though its about twice as much as any of the others have done in one round. Confirmed criticals (60 percent of all crits, and she threatens on a 19 or 20) deal an average of 685 damage. Yes, I am using the multiplier stacking rules and no, I didn't account for increased chance to hit and more damage when she uses her Shadowbane Inquisitor Smite. Maximum possible damage on a crit is 865 points. The charging pouncing Fiendish Dire Lion stacks on another 50 or so damage, a number low because of a low attack bonus.
I have no doubt that Ashardalon could still wipe the party. I also have no doubt he will quickly snatch up the lion and devour it, thus nerfing the crazy mounted charge thing.
However, the issue still stands of the Blackguard's crazy glass cannon damage. I don't want my players calling me on "DM's Girlfriend" and while one might accept "I'm just decent at making characters" as an excuse, the others sure as hell won't. But I think they need that spike in damage to get through this, and every attack going after the lion or the Blackguard's sidekick is one less attack going after them.
I mean, it doesn't help that the Blackguard has more sneak attack dice than the rogue, better HP than the cleric, and better saves than any of them.
Exacerbating the problem is that this is going down Thursday, so little time to rebuild a similar character. The party is on unsteady ground because of conflict between two of the others, so I want to wrap it up before it remains unfinished forever.
Right now, I'm thinking of leaving the build as is, letting her deal her 200 or so damage, and then having Ashardalon eat the lion. Then eat the effigy bear. Then eat the zombie. Then eat the NPC Slaad. That would take some of the damage off the important things in play. I'd have to endure a brief outcry of "WTFBBQ NOT FAIR" before I 'fix it' by eating the lion. Though the BBEG has Awesome Blow, Snatch and Swallow, a 30 foot reach, and a +52 attack bonus, lack of Combat Reflexes means he only gets to interrupt one person's action, and I don't have a guarantee that the Blackguard will be the first one to get within that range. Nor do I want to change how I've been deciding AoO's all campaign.
Thoughts? Is it okay to leave a high-op character in a mid to low-op party as long as I reduce the overshadow of that character swiftly?
Edit: Note that Ashardalon has 1000 hp and I have planned out his tactics already.