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Rossebay
2011-07-19, 10:53 PM
I have one of my players who rolled a Hexblade (his scores really didn't fit anything else), and I was wondering, is it a good class? They haven't seen much combat, as the campaign has been mostly RP and tricks, so we haven't seen him in action.

So, what I want to know is, should I make him stick with this class? He hasn't complained about it or anything, but I want to see what you all think.

Rei_Jin
2011-07-19, 10:57 PM
The Hexblade isn't a bad class, but it isn't brilliant mechanically. The amount of mileage he'll get out of it depends on what other classes and builds you have in the party, and the style of DMing that is prevalent.

If your group mostly roleplays, then he could play a Commoner and it wouldn't really matter. If combat is a big part of the game, then it depends on how the others play as to how much fun he'll have.

My own use of a Hexblade has been limited to using them for dips (3 levels to get Mettle and Charisma to Saves Vs Spells on a Monk tank) but with the limited spellcasting they get, I can see one making a decent addition to a low-mid Opt-fu party.

Shpadoinkle
2011-07-19, 10:59 PM
I've never played one, but I understand hexblades are generally considered inferior to duskblades.

The key thing is: Is everybody having fun? If yes, there's no problem.

If this player isn't having fun because he's useless (or feels useless) in combat then try adding a couple items that only he can use to the next treasure hoard. Or you could work with him to rebuild his character as a different class.

Out of curiosity, what ability scores DID he roll?

Zaq
2011-07-19, 11:01 PM
Hexblades are a very cool class (in my opinion), but outside of dips or very specialized builds, they aren't great. They're kind of like Paladins without all the nice splatbook support. It should be OK in a low-op group, but on their own, they don't really do too much.

I recommend grabbing as many ways to debuff on a hit as possible. Netherese Battle Curse (LEoF), Intimidating Strike (PHB2), Brutal Strike (PHB2), Dreadful Wrath (some FR book, forget which), Sand Dancer (SS), that sort of thing. "Melee debuffer" is a viable archetype. Hexblades just need a lot of help to do it on their own.

Flickerdart
2011-07-19, 11:03 PM
Make sure to drop him Hexbands (MIC). They really help out with Hexblade damage, and are quite cheap at 3100gp.

Rossebay
2011-07-19, 11:03 PM
Out of curiosity, what ability scores DID he roll?

Our Score-Rolling system is odd: We roll scores in order, and roll 3 sets of scores total. So, you roll 18, 17, 4, you have 18 strength, 17 dexterity, and 4 constitution.
He rolled:
14
12
16
15
9
18
It really would have worked for Battle Sorcerer too, but he wanted to play a majorly melee class and wanted to utilize his great charisma, so we went with Hexblade.

nazgulnine
2011-07-19, 11:07 PM
It really would have worked for Battle Sorcerer too, but he wanted to play a majorly melee class and wanted to utilize his great charisma, so we went with Hexblade.

if that's what he wanted, then I'd say let him go for it. Hexblades are fun, and with the proper build, he can have a solid character that works well in roleplay situations and won't slow others down in combat.

Amnestic
2011-07-19, 11:09 PM
Our Score-Rolling system is odd: We roll scores in order, and roll 3 sets of scores total. So, you roll 18, 17, 4, you have 18 strength, 17 dexterity, and 4 constitution.
He rolled:
14
12
16
15
9
18
It really would have worked for Battle Sorcerer too, but he wanted to play a majorly melee class and wanted to utilize his great charisma, so we went with Hexblade.

That would make a pretty decent Bard, which you can make into a decent melee class if you have the splats for it. Mechanically superior to Hexblade too. :smalltongue:

mootoall
2011-07-19, 11:09 PM
Weren't there some "non-official" suggestions for making the class up to par with the power creep of 3.5 by the creator for this class? Or was that another one?

Flickerdart
2011-07-19, 11:10 PM
Weren't there some "non-official" suggestions for making the class up to par with the power creep of 3.5 by the creator for this class? Or was that another one?

It's not about power creep - WotC just severely overestimated the value of full BAB. There's a fix somewhere, yeah, but the only thing I remember from it is 3+CHA curses per day.

Doc Roc
2011-07-19, 11:12 PM
There are indeed many many fixes! You may be thinking of Mearl's.

mootoall
2011-07-19, 11:12 PM
Right, forgot, it was broken out of the box with Polymorph line, Gate and Time Stop. Completely slipped my mind :smalltongue: But yeah, later classes (Looking at the Duskblade here) were far more powerful (read: better at doing the job of the Hexblade) than this one, so seek out this fix, and see if it does anything for you.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-07-19, 11:28 PM
Our Score-Rolling system is odd: We roll scores in order, and roll 3 sets of scores total. So, you roll 18, 17, 4, you have 18 strength, 17 dexterity, and 4 constitution.
He rolled:
14
12
16
15
9
18
It really would have worked for Battle Sorcerer too, but he wanted to play a majorly melee class and wanted to utilize his great charisma, so we went with Hexblade.

Wild Elf (Monster Manual), Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. That's a primarily melee character, who gets plenty of buffs and spell slots to power Arcane Strike, later you get Turn Undead for Divine Might, and even if he doesn't use Polymorph he's much better off than if he'd gone Hexblade. You could use a Paladin variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) if he doesn't want to play a LG character, but you would probably have to replace Sacred Exorcist with something less elegant. Overall it gets +16 BAB and 18th level spellcasting ability at 20th level, and be sure to use Practiced Spellcaster.

If he's insistent on using Hexblade, maybe go Wild Elf, Hexblade 3/ Sorcerer 2/ Talon of Tiamat 5/ Spellsword 1/ Talon of Tiamat 5/ Spellsword 5, in that order. Get Combat Reflexes and use a reach weapon, Practiced Spellcaster, Maximize Breath, Clinging Breath, and probably Power Attack and/or Arcane Strike. Talon of Tiamat and the breath feats are in the Draconomicon. That gets considerably better spellcasting and class features than a Hexblade would otherwise have, and the few points of BAB it loses are well worth the sacrifice.

If he doesn't want to use either of the above, then go Hexblade 7/ Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 4+/ Hexblade+, using the Skilled City-Dweller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) ACF to get Tumble instead of Ride as a class skill.

Rossebay
2011-07-19, 11:29 PM
Right, forgot, it was broken out of the box with Polymorph line, Gate and Time Stop. Completely slipped my mind :smalltongue: But yeah, later classes (Looking at the Duskblade here) were far more powerful (read: better at doing the job of the Hexblade) than this one, so seek out this fix, and see if it does anything for you.

We've had a lot of poor experiences with Duskblade.
Mainly in that they have a piss-poor spell list. Now, I know you guys will disagree, because they have some great spells and the class mechanics really make up for it, but he really wanted to play something Charisma-based and melee-focused.

Bard was something he didn't even want to consider. He doesn't like the flavor.

Lord_Gareth
2011-07-19, 11:30 PM
There's also a number of homebrew fixes. My Malefactor, for example. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202885)

MeeposFire
2011-07-19, 11:32 PM
We've had a lot of poor experiences with Duskblade.
Mainly in that they have a piss-poor spell list. Now, I know you guys will disagree, because they have some great spells and the class mechanics really make up for it, but he really wanted to play something Charisma-based and melee-focused.

Bard was something he didn't even want to consider. He doesn't like the flavor.

What if he was a bard doing perform (cursing)?

IthroZada
2011-07-19, 11:40 PM
I believe this is the quote of the designer. From the Hexblade Handbook
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7412.0

"The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life.
As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky
or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually
work in play.

Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.

If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:

* Good Fortitude save
* Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
* Curse ability usable as a swift action
* Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
* Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
* At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.

The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage."

And, WoTC has something to fill in its dead levels.
Dead Levels II (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)

Treblain
2011-07-19, 11:44 PM
EDIT: SS'ed. The Hexblade's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7412.0) has the unofficial fix detailed. More curse usage, swift action casting, better saves.

I don't get why Hexblade and Duskblade are compared. Yeah, they're both full BAB casting classes, but otherwise they don't have much in common. Duskblade is for blasting spells while swordslinging, hexblade is more for utility and debuffing. No denying that hexblade's weaker, but so what?

Cool stuff to do with hexblade:

Get Improved Familiar, and with your high BAB and HD, it can be a good fighter that can also deliver spells. You can have a Dark Companion too if you want.
Ridiculous intimidation and stacking penalties. Poison's worth looking into, too.
Dip cleric for Charm domain (bonus to CHA) and Divine Might. Might as well pick up Animal Devotion, which is always useful.

Flickerdart
2011-07-19, 11:45 PM
What if he was a bard doing perform (cursing)?
Bards have many feats and ACFs that let them do fear and curse-based songs, too.

Psyren
2011-07-19, 11:49 PM
He would have made a badass Binder. (But then, I can say that without even seeing his ability scores :smalltongue:) He can mop the floor with any number of Hexblades, too.

Optimator
2011-07-20, 12:04 AM
I don't like them at all, mechanically. Concept-wise, I like them a lot. I wish they were better. They get so sew spells that Arcane Strike doesn't work that great, and they are just a sub-par Fighter otherwise, which is pretty bad. I like their defensive abilities a lot though. If they had a few more spells per day and got them earlier, combined with the designer's notes, they'd be much more playable. As-is though, I would never play one. They're garbage as written. Sure they get Polymorph (War Trolls are a good choice), and that helps, but it's so late...

Keld Denar
2011-07-20, 12:12 AM
If you are worried about mid-level sag, Suel Arcanamach is a kinda nice PrC to zip into on a Hexblade chassis. It gives you a bit more useful casting, keeps with the Cha-base, and transitions nicely into Abjurant Champion.

Otherwise, this homebrew fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6728249#post6728249) is pretty fun. Drops spellcasting altogether and turns it into an invocation-based system. Invokers are wonderful classes, very friendly to beginners, and pretty fun to play in any situation.

Hunter Killer
2011-07-20, 12:23 AM
Hexblades are absolutely sick if you don't stick with the class until 20 and layer on the debuff abilities with feats and multiclassing. Oh, and you must max Intimidate + take the Never Outnumbered skill trick.

One thing this player has to understand, though, is that he's likely not going to be the one taking advantage of the low saves... He needs the party Cleric, Druid, or Wizard to pop off a Save-or-Die as a finisher.

I posted some of this in another thread, but I love Hexblade builds so I'll repeat it:

Feat Advice:
Dreadful Wrath, Intimidating Strike, and Netherese Battle Curse. The first two help with getting fear affects in place, which reduce saves. Netherese just add some more save debuffing.

Dark Companion:
He must take the Dark Companion ACF. Hexblade without this is like Druid without Natural Spell. Hexblade's familiar is good, but this is better. Plus, he can get the familiar back with Obtain Familiar.

Multiclass and Prestige Advice:
If the character is Lawful Evil, he should look at Paladin of Tyranny. They get a debuff Aura at 3rd level. That, and the rest of their stuff has CHA synergies. If he sticks in until 4th, the Holy Warrior ACF is a must.

If a 1 level dip into Bard isn't out of the question, then Doomspeak + Extra music would give him an extra powerful debuff that he could use 5/day. It's amazing when you have debuffs already stacked on; The affect is basically guaranteed. A Save-or-Die after a Doomspeak is certain death.

Avenging Executioner makes a good prestige. It allows him access to move-equivalent demoralization and gives him some bonus damage to boot. Another debuff is the capstone at 5th.

Ur-Priest would be another finisher option at 11th-20th, if he could buff his WIS with items, spells, or some other means. Gives him access to Divine Power and Cleric Save-or-Dies so he can finish off enemies himself.

My favorite build is, and will probably always remain:

Hexblade 5, Paladin of Tyranny 4, Bard 1, Ur-Priest 10.

Feats would be Arcane Strike (Sucks for this build, but what else is there to do with the Arcane spells I get?), Dreadful Wrath, Intimidating Strike, Netherese, Doomspeak, Extra Music, Quicken, and Divine Metamagic (Quicken), Iron Will (For Ur-Priest), Travel Devotion. Human and 2 Flaws would be used.

Bonus feat from Paladin Holy Warrior ACF would be Power Attack, and the bonus feat from Hexblade would be Spell Focus (Required for Ur-Priest, and only possible if DM doesn't restrict it per the class feature description).

Maxed Intimidate skill with the Never Outnumbered skill trick. Heavy Armor, because my Hexblade and Bard spells suck (Won't cast 'em, so who cares about ASF?!). Rocking a two-hander of some sort (I like Falchion, but Greatsword is good too).

Leon
2011-07-20, 09:57 AM
Hexblade without this is like Druid without Natural Spell.

IE: still extremely good

mootoall
2011-07-20, 10:10 AM
IE: still extremely good Druid without Natural Spell? Extremely good. Hexblade ever? Not extremely good.

Piggy Knowles
2011-07-20, 10:14 AM
Hexblades are support characters. They can be pretty decent at their support role. Just don't be fooled by the full BAB or flavor text that WotC provides, and go thinking that they're anything other than support.

Basically, you've got two choices: a super-debuffer, via Dark Companion, or a balanced debuffer/buffer, who isn't as good at debuffing, but shares buffs with his familiar for fun and profit. In a higher-op game, the Dark Companion debuffer is way more useful, but I personally think the latter option is more fun.

If you're interested in the latter option, Imp + shared Alter Self + poison farming is an OK game plan.

Urpriest
2011-07-20, 10:18 AM
Nothing about those ability scores screams melee class at all. The highest scores are Con (which everyone wants because everyone needs, much like thneeds), Int, and Cha, with Cha being the highest. That sounds like a skillmonkey with Cha-based casting, i.e. a Bard. Not even a melee Bard, a normal Bard. Hexblades don't use Int much at all. Why did you think those scores fit a Hexblade better than a Bard?

Divide by Zero
2011-07-20, 12:11 PM
What if he was a bard doing perform (cursing)?

Would that be something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Nrp7cj_tM)? (warning: NSFW)

Grendus
2011-07-20, 03:21 PM
Hmm. Those stats look like a sorcadin to me. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellblade 1/Abjurant Champion 5/X 8 nets you a mess of spells, saves through the roof, fairly solid hit dice... all in all a very durable caster. If he's good aligned, grab Prepared Spellcaster and use Luminous Armor from BoED to turn him into an AC monster, while Belker Claws and Steeldance (both from SpC IIRC) give you some dangerous melee spells. Combine with a two hander of your choice, Power Attack, and Arcane Strike feat to sacrifice your extra spell slots for bonus d4's of damage and you're looking at a seriously powerful character. Trade your familiar and grab one via a feat so it will scale on your caster level and you have a powerful gishing buddy (Alter Self into something like a Troglodyte for the natural armor and share it to turn your decent HP familiar into a nasty Magical Beast).

But then, a lot is going to depend on your group's optimization levels. If he's considering a Hexblade (T4) going with a sorcadin (optimized T2) could be a little more than your DM wants to handle.

Tvtyrant
2011-07-20, 04:25 PM
I think a Hex Blade/Bard(1)/Suel Arcanamach/Sublime Chord could make for a fun high spell gish. You get a slower sorc casting with actual class features and a Gish frame.

Hexblade 5/Bard 2/Suel Arcanamach 7/Sublime Chord 6 would get you +16 BaB and 7th level spells, along with tremendous amounts of skill points and some good class features.

You can't get +16 BaB and 9th level casting that way unfortunately, but you get pretty good results. You could also ditch fighting as your primary form of combat and go Hexblade 5/Bard 2/Suel Arcanamach 4/Sublime Chord 9 for a 9th level slot. Your BaB suffers because of it, with a measly +14, but its pretty solid.

Swiftblade would also work in place of Sublime Chord, but it limits your casting more.

Flickerdart
2011-07-20, 05:12 PM
Nobody takes Sublime Chord past level 2. Going Abjurant Champion or something and progressing Sublime Chord casting would also solve the BAB problem.

Tvtyrant
2011-07-20, 05:58 PM
Nobody takes Sublime Chord past level 2. Going Abjurant Champion or something and progressing Sublime Chord casting would also solve the BAB problem.

Good point; this gets you the +16 and 9th level casting of a good gish. Though this barely qualifies as a Hex Blade anymore :P

Hunter Killer
2011-07-20, 06:21 PM
Gents, can I point you to my build again? Has the feel of a Hexblade all the way through and it is both a competent debuffer and gish (It can pump out -20 on saves if you have every debuff active in a single round and the opponent is Shaken, plus it has +16 BAB and 9th level spells)

I even found out a way to get past the lack of WIS in the posted stat block... Legends of the Twins: Dragonlance has a feat called Dynamic Spellcaster that allows you to switch you divine casting to CHA. You'd simply drop Arcane Strike from the build I previously posted.

Optimator
2011-07-20, 07:48 PM
Gents, can I point you to my build again? Has the feel of a Hexblade all the way through and it is both a competent debuffer and gish (It can pump out -20 on saves if you have every debuff active in a single round and the opponent is Shaken, plus it has +16 BAB and 9th level spells)

Yes, yes. We're all astounded by your marvelous build and would like to subscribe to your news letter. Please bring it up in other threads.

Yanagi
2011-07-20, 08:30 PM
I sometimes use Hexblade as a 3 or 4 level dip (4 if Dark Companion is an open option) in the process of building a Blackguard. The theory was to build a tank with massive saves who also acted as a debuff: you charge the enemy (particularly the soft squishy people) and open up all kinds of opportunities for your allies to hit them easier with attacks and spells. The tricky part was whether your DM would rule the Arcane Resistance CF stackable with the Dark Blessing CF (I'd argue that with the different trigger conditions and power sources, they do).

Another option is to use the Hexblade as part of an anti-caster build--basically down-playing the casting component, picking up anti-caster feats like Occult Slayer, plus Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon. IIRC, this is build could actually be overlapped with the Blackguard one.

Something I never quite got to work was Hexblade plus Spellthief plus the Master Spellthief build--another anti-mage variant.

Sadly I can't find any of my scrawling with actual builds...will come back if I can recall.

Edited to add one Hexblade fix from back in the day:


Originally Posted by Wotc_Mark:
The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play.

Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.

If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:

* Good Fortitude save
* Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
* Curse ability usable as a swift action
* Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
* Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
* At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long
as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of
this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.

The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage.

Psyren
2011-07-20, 08:42 PM
Gents, can I point you to my build again? Has the feel of a Hexblade all the way through and it is both a competent debuffer and gish (It can pump out -20 on saves if you have every debuff active in a single round and the opponent is Shaken, plus it has +16 BAB and 9th level spells)

That is an Ur-Priest build with some hexblade tacked on, not a hexblade build. With 9th-level cleric spells and the ability to steal SLAs, you could have started with Commoner instead and it would still be powerful/broken.

(And its BAB isn't relevant, given that Ur-Priests can get DMM and Divine Power.)

Hunter Killer
2011-07-20, 09:25 PM
Yes, yes. We're all astounded by your marvelous build and would like to subscribe to your news letter. Please bring it up in other threads.

I will repost it later if it's still relevant advice. :smallwink:

At least I'm offering ideas that fit the actual question and thread, unlike you or many of the others. Many, many people did what this forum always does ("Why are you playing that?! Play X instead!") and you're just being mean.

Not looking for your approval, nor am I looking to have anyone kiss my behind and praise my building skills. I'm just pointing out that the build I posted happens to have certain advantages theirs don't and follows the Hexblade theme a little closer.


That is an Ur-Priest build with some hexblade tacked on, not a hexblade build. With 9th-level cleric spells and the ability to steal SLAs, you could have started with Commoner instead and it would still be powerful/broken.
That's a good point. Ur-Priest is a thick slice of provolone all on it's own. I just really, really like Ur-Cheese. You're correct that it's less of a Hexblade build that an Ur-Priest build, but the point was to give the Hexblade's debuffing something to synergize with.


(And its BAB isn't relevant, given that Ur-Priests can get DMM and Divine Power.)
The spell can be Dispelled and the character could walk into and Antimagic Field. Not saying the combo isn't borked, because it is, just pointing out that a high BAB can still be pretty relevant in certain situations.


I have a new build and new advice, if anyone is interested. The previous build / advice was just some stuff that was easy to rewrite because I'd already done some thinking on it. Now I've done some more thinking, so here goes:

First, I want to directly answer the question that the OP had in no uncertain terms: The Hexblade, if you do not build around it with multiclassing and prestige, is bad. This is because it has too few uses of Curse and no relevant new abilities or ability increases past 5-7th level. As a 3-7 level base, it is great, but you can't rock it to 20th and expect an effective character on it's own (Spellcaster support is all it is in that case).

Now, the key to Hexblade multiclassing and prestige is CHA synergies and layered fear affects. You want to make sure you're getting the highest possible benefits of the Hexblade's high CHA, and you want to be able to threaten fear effects as many times a round as possible.

The reason you want multiple fear affects going off all at once is that fear effects always stack unless the feat or ability says otherwise. Meaning that if you pop a fear affect on someone who is Shaken, they then become Frightened. If you pop a fear affect on someone who is Frightened, they become Panicked. This stacking fear accomplishes two things: It debuffs, and it causes the target to lose actions.

The Hexblade enjoys fear because it makes further debuffing easier, and it allows them to tamper with the action economy (although to a much lesser extent than a Wizard can). The trouble with Hexblade 20 is that it doesn't really have anything to do with the extra advantage provided by either.

That's where level dips and prestige classes come in.

The best way to provide the Hexblade with something to use is to go the gish route, as previously stated. Spells allow you to quickly use the advantages of serious debuffing by popping off a Save-or-Die.

Another way to take it, however, would be something that allows you to get extra damage dice or additional effects on a fear stricken enemy. I'd say that a combination of Avenging Executioner and Ghost-Faced Killer do exactly that...

An Avenging Executioner / Ghost-Faced build might look something like this:

Hexblade 7 / Avenging Executioner 5 / Ghost-Faced Killer 8.

You will get the ability to force Save-or-Die effects with the Ghost-Faced's Frightful Attack. This ability basically says: Make a save. If you succeed, then you're Shaken. If you fail, you die (Obviously, you're going to pump the debuffs to try and make them fail).

If they end up being Shaken... Well, Avenging Executioner gets to treat them as Flat-Footed for purposes of Sudden Strike due to it's Dread Blade ability. That means +6d6 extra damage at 20th! That's not bad, considering this build gets 4 attacks at +18 BAB and should be using a two-handed weapon.

The feat selection would be most of the standard Hexblade stuff:

Dreadful Wrath, Intimidating Strike, Netherese, etc... But you'd need Power Attack and Improved Initiative for the Ghost-Face. I would also suggest some Sudden Strike improving stuff like Craven (Remember, Sudden Strike = Sneak Attack for purposes of feats).

Next time perhaps I'll explore something that plays up the CHA synergy more... :smalltongue:

Cerlis
2011-07-20, 10:21 PM
the thing is, for "weak classes" you got to figure out what they are good at that simular "better" classes dont have. For instance, the a duskblade doesnt have enchantment, illusion and many buff or debuff spells i believe. I dont remember the Hexblade list but i'd look over what it can do and see if you can try to find a good pattern to work off. you got +4 charisma bonus so the onlything you are weaker casting wise than a fullcaster is lack of high spells (higher spell means higher save). so basically you arent going to be enchanting the BBEG sorcerer, but you should still be able to befuddle Melee mooks with your spells easily. Further, check out reserve feats in complete mage. i believe there are one or two melee based swift action ones that he might like, and you wouldnt waste as many spells and can save the good debuffs/hexs for bigger encounters.

since there is alot of roleplaying his familiar can really help with that, spy, pet, friend, sky is the limit. a very small familiar can even be a great touch attacker, since he has such a high bonus to attack cus of size, and high AC do to size and they usually have a high Dex. also familiars i believe get feats since though HP is based off masters, they do have a HD. so they can qualify for flyby attack or whatnot and not even worry about getting hit. you could even get IMP Familiar. there might be a flying varient monster on that list , i dont know.

Further, though you are a melee guy, he does have spells and UMD, which means any spell he likes he can get a wand of or something and then use it every combat and save more important spells for big fights.

Also he might consider a reach weapon/gauntlet combo so he can take advantage of Full base attack without the disadvantage of frontline melee. though depending on how fights go he could simply make a good flanker. not bad for your flanker to be a d10 hexblade instead of a d6 ....whatever.

Optimator
2011-07-20, 10:48 PM
While DMing for my current campaign I actually had Hexblade Ghostface Killer Avenging Executioner NPCs attack the party a couple of times. Let's see... they were Hexblade3 Rogue 3 AE 4 GFK8. Worked great and the Hexblade added meaningful bonuses. Hexblades definitely have their place, but it's going to be dips since it gets so little at higher levels.

Petrocorus
2011-07-20, 10:50 PM
If he has chosen Hexblade only because he wanted a melee character with cha-based abilities, then i think he should rather look on the many paladin, sorcadin, bardadin etc that are out there.

Here some that i collected wandering this forum:
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6576/paladinbuilds.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/paladinbuilds.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Except for the one whose base class is cleric, all other have cha synergy and cha-based casting, some of them can be really powerful.

You cannot enter Pr Bard from Suel Arcanamach or Knight of the Weave without Sword of the Arcane Order and you need enough Wis.
But you can replace the Pr Bard by Arcane Spellcasting PrC 1 / Bard 1

The Suel arc. and KotW builds can use the theurgic mount feat from Dragon mag that allow to stack the paladin level with the levels in arcane spellcasting classes for determining the abilities ot the paladin's mount.

JaronK
2011-07-23, 02:45 PM
I find Hexblades pretty boring to play, personally. Even an Unseelie Fey Hexblade 4/Paladin of Tyranny 3 (Cha+4 removed from the saves of all nearby enemies) is cool but feels like you're just playing an NPC supporter.

So what about Binder? They're Cha and Con based in a lot of ways, are lots of fun, and can absolutely be melee based.

JaronK

Midnight_v
2011-07-23, 06:26 PM
I like hexblades and for a long time I really wasn't sure what to do with one.
Then they printed the phb2 Dark Companion: And it became a much more interesting class.
Just being the master debuffer contrary to what Jaronk says is a really interesting and useful guy to have in the party.
I really suggest going through that hexblade handbook over on bg's )I have a post or two in that thread actually), you can see different things it can add to the party. I like to take the 2 binding feats for focalor, so when You and the dark Companion are adjacent to a monster they get an automatic -4 to saves (if vunerable to that type of thing).
Having a curse, brutal strike, dreadful wrath, and all those other things are kinda just icing on the cake and you can more mileage out of that
The funny thing about that is that you still take "Standstill" and even Robilars later, and play the "Bad Tank". You're stuck against this monster, thats eating away at your saves while the party is attacking your saves.
It's fun, and useful to everyone. Having a debuffer in the party, that is.