3.5 Newbie

[DitzKrieg]

Hey, I was wondering if some experienced people could help me out. My friends and I want to start playing D&D 3.5e. We have the 3 Core rulebooks, but the problem is that none of us have ever played a pen and paper rpg before. I figure the best way is to have someone else teach us, but we would like to start our own game. Any tips on what we can/should do? The rules seem so daunting...

[Honest Tiefling]

Find an adventure to play. I think this link has a few, I would suggest a 1st level one for now.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b&page=1

Also, the SRD is your friend.

[Redshirt Army]

First off, a requisite link to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/).

(SRD stands for system reference document, and contains a lot of the base material, along with some other goodies, for D&D - not everything, some monsters and the XP and wealth tables aren't in it, so you do need the books, but it's a viable resource to look up rules.)

You should use a grid of some kind to help keep track of positions - don't feel obligated to buy miniatures though, as you can replicate those pretty easily just by printing a picture and sticking it on a bottle cap.

Every player should have a character sheet, with all the relevant slots filled out. You can print off one from the internet, and there's no need to stick to the official one. (My favorite is here. (http://charactersheets.minotaur.cc/))

Whoever is DMing should remember that their job is making sure everyone at the table (including them!) is having fun. If that means bending the rules to let the PCs (or villains!) do something they normally couldn't, go for it!

Some rolls should be made secretly by the DM, so that the PCs (Player Characters) don't know that they didn't notice the ambush, or whatever.

It speeds up gameplay considerably if each player begins to plan out their next turn while other people are going (admittedly more of a problem with fourth edition, but turns will go slower while players are just learning the ropes.)

Don't worry about stuff that isn't in the rulebooks too much to start with - you'll be better equipped to try and optimize characters and try out different classes after you're acquainted with the rules.

Always remember that D&D is supposed to be fun - if something is stopping the game from being fun, you can - and should change it for the better.

[Arbane]

Remember, D&D is half tactical boardgame, half improv acting. Some people find one half more fun than the other, so try to make both good.

How many people are in your group? Have any of them played WoW or other computer RPGs? (Most of which borrowed heavily from D&D, which borrowed right back, but I digress.) What sort of fiction books/movies do they enjoy?

[begooler]

My first suggestion is to encourage all of the player's to create a back story for their character that they feel is interesting. This is valuable, because it gives the story a place to start, and it also gives the DM clues as to what the heck type of adventure everyone wants.

My other suggestion is to have your group discuss what rolls everyone to try to fill. It is nice to have a party where you have at least one person who casts arcane spells, one person who casts divine spells, a person with lots of skills (they might be social skills or the ability to disarm traps, or both.) It's also good if at least one person has a lot of health and can hit things with their weapon hard and make them hurt.
Now, that's sort of a stereotypical group, and really, a lot of groups don't have or need that mix, but if you follow that template you'll at least get to learn about the variety that classes have to offer.

You will soon discover that some classes in the Player's Handbook are much more effective than others. You may think, oh no, Player X is outshining Player Y in combat because they know how to play better! While this might be true, do know that each class is not 'balanced' against each other, and some are overwhelmingly powerful as compared to others. I won't spoil the fun and say which.

Another thing to know, is that each class does not always work best by just building it so that it does the most damage. A wizard can shoot fire at people, yes, but they are most useful when they use magic to do something practical that gives the party an advantage over your enemies. Similarly, while you want a fighter to be able to hit things hard, sometimes the most important thing to do is to disable the enemy by tripping them etc.

[marcielle]

D&D code of good conduct: http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/gaming/pctips.html

For new players who want to use magic:
1. If you can't remember what all your spells do off the top of your head just keep them written on a sheet so you aren't hunting through books every 10 seconds.
2. Rouges get Use Magic Device as a class skill. Good choice for newbies who want to use magic AND melee but aren't ready for things like prestige/multiclassing and things out of core.

Get your friends on these boards too.

There is no need to memorize the entire rulebook before starting. Character building, combat and what you can do with skills are all players need to play the game at basic levels. After you get more comfortable with the system, you can then start looking at things like crafting, ACFs and etc.

Pure monk is not a viable ANYTHING despite the class' abilities. Don't encourage anyone to take monk until they know how to multiclass.

Having an experienced player around is the quickest way to learn. If you are a small group, I suggest you find another group of players and join their game. If you are a large group you will either need to split up or to ask around and see if one will join your group.

Remember all the things in other types of games you WANTED to do but were limited by the game's design? In D&D, YOU CAN DO THEM ALL.

[NecroRick]

Hey, I was wondering if some experienced people could help me out. My friends and I want to start playing D&D 3.5e. We have the 3 Core rulebooks, but the problem is that none of us have ever played a pen and paper rpg before. I figure the best way is to have someone else teach us, but we would like to start our own game. Any tips on what we can/should do? The rules seem so daunting...

Honestly I would say not to start with 3.5. It is way too much rules and accounting. If it wasn't for the online avascript character creator I doubt I would be able to create a character, because the experience of trying to do so by hand would suck away too much of my life force.

Try 4.0 instead, or something simple like GURPS.

The biggest problem with 3.5 is the rules are written in such a way as to allow multiple interpretations.

No wait, the biggest problem with 3.5 is the buried keywords. For instance you might be reading a feat and see the words 'ranged attack' and think "oh cool, that will work with X", but the problem is, it doesn't, because ranged attack has a very specific meaning that isn't the same as its normal English interpretation.

No wait, the biggest problem with 3.5 is how a significant chunk of the rules are deeply counter-intuitive. For instance - the rules on being flat-footed. We can stand toe to toe; weapons drawn and scream obscenities at each other for five minutes, but if I go before you in the initiative roll I can backstab you in the face multiple times because you are 'surprised' and 'unready for combat'.

No wait, the biggest problem with 3.5 is the combat rules in general over and above things like being flat-footed.

No wait, the biggest problem with 3.5 is that if you want a character that is a good melee combatant you have to pick up an obscure sourcebook and learn a completely new system

No wait, the biggest problem with 3.5 is the power creep in all the sourcebooks. Eventually you end up with spells like power-word pain: which does 4-96 damage to anyone under 50 hit points... not bad for a level 1 spell (!!!) (median is 'only' 35 though)

No wait, the biggest problem in 3.5 is that it is 'balanced' by making life harder for the more powerful classes at low levels, to make up for their higher power later on, but if you create the high level mage you never had to suffer through the suckfulness of being a low level mage, so you never paid the cost.

No wait, the biggest problem in 3.5 is they didn't bother paying more than lip-service to the concept of balance.

No wait, the biggest problem in 3.5 is that it isn't really a fantasy game at all, because there isn't anything that you can't just slap some psionics on and it gets more powerful.

[only1doug]

Honestly I would say not to start with 3.5. It is way too much rules and accounting. If it wasn't for the online avascript character creator I doubt I would be able to create a character, because the experience of trying to do so by hand would suck away too much of my life force.

Try 4.0 instead, or something simple like GURPS.

The biggest problem with 3.5 is

<snip>


The Biggest advantage of 3.5 is that the OP already has the books and has specifically requested help with it.


Hey, I was wondering if some experienced people could help me out. My friends and I want to start playing D&D 3.5e. We have the 3 Core rulebooks, but the problem is that none of us have ever played a pen and paper rpg before. I figure the best way is to have someone else teach us, but we would like to start our own game. Any tips on what we can/should do? The rules seem so daunting...

OK, from complete basics:

1st: pick someone to be the GM: They will control the world and all the enemies, and have the hardest job. The GM should not control a character in the party.

2nd: Keep it simple: There are lots of rules in 3.5, lots of options... its easy for a beginner to get lost among all the choices so until you've had some practice just keep it simple. Make sure each player understands what their character can do and how it works. (Sorcerer not Wizard)

4th: Rotate the GMing duty: Once you've run one adventure for the group switch around until everyone has GM'd one adventure each, then discuss what was good and bad about each GM style and decide how GM duties will fall in the future.

How many people are going to be in your group?

We could pregenerate some characters and explain their options.

[mootoall]

Remember, though 3.5 does have its flaws, there's a reason it still has a huge fanbase years after its support from WotC dropped. The most important advice was already stated: in D&D 3.5, whatever you want to do you *can* do. Don't be afraid to alter the classes' descriptions, and don't afraid to be creative. It can go anywhere from "My Fighter is a Samurai" to "My Wizard makes pacts with spirits every morning to gain the ability to shoot flame and lightning." And remeber, the Playground is your friend.

[SamBurke]

Also, don't be afraid to try other systems similar. Pathfinder is an awesome setup, and, far easier to learn IMHO.

[DitzKrieg]

Okay, sorry in advance for a long post.


Find an adventure to play. I think this link has a few, I would suggest a 1st level one for now.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...030530b&page=1


Thanks! These should come in handy.


Whoever is DMing should remember that their job is making sure everyone at the table (including them!) is having fun. If that means bending the rules to let the PCs (or villains!) do something they normally couldn't, go for it!

I'm sure when we first start there might be quite a bit of rule bending with unfamiliar rules. Although I would like to minimize that haha.


How many people are in your group? Have any of them played WoW or other computer RPGs? (Most of which borrowed heavily from D&D, which borrowed right back, but I digress.) What sort of fiction books/movies do they enjoy?

There are seven of us right now. I don't think any of us have played WoW, but I have played some computer rpgs (Morrowind, Oblivion, The Witcher, Mass Effect 1 and 2, SWKOTOR, etc.). I will need to ask my group what they enjoy. For books I like The Prydain Chronicles, The Hobbit/LOTR, The Ender Quartet, The Dark is Rising Sequence, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, and recently started reading the Gormenghast Trilogy.


My first suggestion is to encourage all of the player's to create a back story for their character that they feel is interesting. This is valuable, because it gives the story a place to start, and it also gives the DM clues as to what the heck type of adventure everyone wants.

Good tip. When we meet next I will give out some sort of survey.


Get your friends on these boards too.

I'll try my best!


There is no need to memorize the entire rulebook before starting. Character building, combat and what you can do with skills are all players need to play the game at basic levels. After you get more comfortable with the system, you can then start looking at things like crafting, ACFs and etc.


Yeah, I will probably try and find an adventure that requires only basic knowledge to play.


Having an experienced player around is the quickest way to learn. If you are a small group, I suggest you find another group of players and join their game. If you are a large group you will either need to split up or to ask around and see if one will join your group.

I'll see what I can find. There is a local comics store near my house that hosts games, but it might be only 4e. I could still ask around there though.


Remember all the things in other types of games you WANTED to do but were limited by the game's design? In D&D, YOU CAN DO THEM ALL.

That's what I'm most excited about!


Honestly I would say not to start with 3.5. It is way too much rules and accounting. If it wasn't for the online javascript character creator I doubt I would be able to create a character, because the experience of trying to do so by hand would suck away too much of my life force.

As another poster said, we already have books for 3.5. However if it would be better for starting we could try a free alternative until we are more acquainted with d20 rules (like Basic Fantasy or something).


1st: pick someone to be the GM: They will control the world and all the enemies, and have the hardest job. The GM should not control a character in the party.

2nd: Keep it simple: There are lots of rules in 3.5, lots of options... its easy for a beginner to get lost among all the choices so until you've had some practice just keep it simple. Make sure each player understands what their character can do and how it works. (Sorcerer not Wizard)

4th: Rotate the GMing duty: Once you've run one adventure for the group switch around until everyone has GM'd one adventure each, then discuss what was good and bad about each GM style and decide how GM duties will fall in the future.

How many people are going to be in your group?

Those all sound like good ideas. As I said before, seven people are in my group.

[marcielle]

Yeah,I can see this thread getting derailed into a 'my rpg is better' arguement so I'm gonna bring it back on track.

The guys of the local gamestore(where you buy your D&d stuff) might be able to help you find games. This isn't guaranteed to work but it can't hurt to try.

A big part of the game is improvising. If the rules don't give you an answer, feel free to think outsude the box.

Enworld player finder - In my experience, Giant forums are faster(and prettier). However, the player finder over at Enworld forums might be very useful for new players looking for a group.
Here's a linky:http://www.enworld.org/forum/gamersseekinggamers.php
You'll need an account though.

Warning! Avoid!
Munchkins - A more extreme form of minmaxxers. These are players that generally make the most powerful characters they can, usually using questionable interpretations of the rules. Why are they bad? They will be able to take care of everything by themselves in 1 or 2 turns, preventing the other players from doing anything. AT ALL.

Monks - Good characters CAN be built from the monk class, but it requires a certain mastery of rules and amount of extra books not normally available to newbies. Don't try one as your 1st character.

Sadistic DMs/ Jerks players - This game is as much about the people you play with as the actual rules and stuff. Never had one but if you get one I suggest looking for another game.

[smashbro]

When you start, only one person needs to know the rules VERY well. That's the DM. He/she should know how to handle most common situations, and make sure you have the books handy/SRD available while playing. All the players should be familiar with the other rules, and the more they know the better, but a lot of the learning just comes through playing games.

Here's where I get my adventures:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b&page=1

I'll second the post above about getting players who won't be *****. you don't want someone who keeps trying to kill their party members for no reason, or a DM who will try to kill you all around every turn.

7 should be about the limit of people, especially for new players. 4 is standard, I personally like 6.

As for rotating the DM, I'd only suggest that near the beginning. I'm designated DM for my friends so that I can run a campaign for them, and there can be continuity for their characters. At college, me and one other kid switch off DM'ing, but there is little tying everything together at this point, mostly just adventuring cause we can.



On to my own suggestions. I'm not anywhere near being an expert on 3.5. But when it comes to picking a class, people tend to have opinions of what is good, and what is bad. Here's my advice:

PLAY AS WHATEVER THE HECK YOU WANT. Sure, if you optimize a character, you could dominate everything throughout the game. But if you're not having fun playing as your character why bother playing at all? Pick something you like, even if you have a party of 6 barbarians, it can work.

My first adventure, we had a cleric, a monk, a ranger, and a bard. (btdubs, for a 4 person party, fighter cleric rogue wizard/sorcerer is pretty standard). The only one who i think didn't have much fun was the cleric, cause he only played as one cause the party needed one.

I was the bard, and when I play with him again, I plan on having him prestige to Horizon Walker. He knows pretty much every language, and hasn't played a bard song once in his 2 adventures. Everyone says bards suck. But really? I don't care that much, cause I enjoyed playing as one.



In the end, having fun is most important. if the DM has to let a few things go to avoid a total party kill? Whatever, as long as it isn't excessive, and you guys still get a big penalty. In my campaign, my group has burned 2 cities in 2 adventures, and stolen an entire jewelry store's inventory. A number of the necklaces they stole are cursed though, so jokes on them. :p but as long as people enjoy it, and one person isn't out to get everyone else, it's a fun time.

[Flickerdart]

The PHB has a number of new player-friendly classes.

Barbarian: You have one active ability (Rage) so it's pretty easy to keep track of what you can do. You have the most HP of anyone, so making tactical mistakes won't cost you as dearly. The Unearthed Arcana rules have some really cool variants Barbarians can take. Two-handed weapons are the best, because you get 2:1 return on Power Attack and 1.5*Strength bonus to damage.

Druid: One of the game's most powerful classes, the Druid is also the hardest one to screw up. Pick whatever animal companion you want, so long as it's pretty handy in a fight (wolf or riding dog are good 1st level choices, and you can't go wrong with a bear later on). Take Natural Spell at 6th level so you can cast spells while in a Wild Shape. Bookmark the pages in the Monster Manual with cool monsters that you can turn into or summon. If you picked a bad selection of spells, no problem! Druids know all the Druid spells, so next morning just prepare different ones. Remember too that animal companions can wear armour and use items that you give them.

Paladin: Less beginner-friendly than the previous two, the Paladin is a pretty potent mounted knight. Grab a lance two-handed, and any different stuff that boosts charging or mounted combat, and you will do quite a bit of damage. Unearthed Arcana has some Paladin variants. Do try to agree with your DM on the specifics of the Paladin Code beforehand though, and make sure to upgrade to a flying mount as quickly as you can. Like animal companions, special mounts can wear armour and use items.

There are also some extra difficult classes around - make sure you know the game well before trying these.

Fighter: Looking at the Fighter, it seems very simple. Just grab some feats and get swinging, right? But without planning which feats to take (and the prerequisites for them) a Fighter is very easy to mess up. A dip of 2 or 4 levels is nice if you're short on feats for your Barbarian.

Monk: Monk has a lot of shiny class features but they don't really add up to anything. Very hard to optimize because of this, but Monk 2 or Monk 6 are pretty good dips for many characters.

Wizard: Oh dear lord the book-keeping. Wizards are probably the game's most powerful class, but it takes hard work to get there. Know all the spells like the back of your hand, and don't skimp on buying extra ones and scribing them into your spellbook. Focus on utility or battlefield control spells over direct damage; spells that both deal damage and inflict a debilitating effect are often the most effective, however.

[only1doug]

There are seven of us right now. I don't think any of us have played WoW, but I have played some computer rpgs (Morrowind, Oblivion, The Witcher, Mass Effect 1 and 2, SWKOTOR, etc.). I will need to ask my group what they enjoy. For books I like The Prydain Chronicles, The Hobbit/LOTR, The Ender Quartet, The Dark is Rising Sequence, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, and recently started reading the Gormenghast Trilogy.



7 Huh, Thats quite a lot, especially for an all Newbie group.

with 1 GM + 6 PCs, it will be challenging for an inexperienced GM to give each PC enough spotlight time (Your Turn Bob, what do you want to do?)

I'll Pregen a L1L3 Party for you by this time tomorrow consisting of

Barbarian
Sorcerer (Blaster)
Cleric (heal bot)
Rogue
Bard
Ranger

With an explanation of each characters options.

I'd recommend running 1 adventure then rotating GM and pre-generated characters and running through another adventure. once everyone has played each character and GM'd you'll all have a much better idea of the game and can settle in to create your own characters and settle on who will be GMing and for how long.

(other posters here could help with the pregenerating of the party, just remember to keep it core, keep it simple and keep it balanced).

Reason for edit: at L1 D&D is rocket tag and class distinctions are almost meaningless, L3 is a better starting point to demonstrate the strengths of each class.

[NecroRick]

As another poster said, we already have books for 3.5. However if it would be better for starting we could try a free alternative until we are more acquainted with d20 rules (like Basic Fantasy or something).


There's a starter kit that has everything you need to get started.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/244660000

In all seriousness, I wouldn't make the time/money/energy commitment to 3.5 unless you already know that you like role-playing. If you're just trying to find out - maybe it seemed like a good idea at the time, 3.5 is not the system to learn that on.

In terms of time commitment, it would be like having to level up to 80, from scratch, with no guild in WoW just to figure out whether you like computer games or not.

Wouldn't it be easier to pick up Pong or Space Invaders and give it a twiddle first?

Or another analogy, so you have this race car that needs to be completely disassembled and rebuilt before each race - when you don't even know whether you like driving! Wouldn't it be easier to hop in a go-cart and take that for a spin round the tracks a couple of times to see whether you like it or not before making the time commitment of getting the advanced engineering degree required to pull the race car apart and put it back together?



Remember, though 3.5 does have its flaws, there's a reason it still has a huge fanbase years after its support from WotC dropped


There's one I missed - Wotc dropped support of it. :-p

This in a way supports what I was saying, that the rules are such a colossal pig of a thing to grapple with [sic] that having spent the LITERALLY YEARS required to attain proficiency with them some people are mysteriously reluctant to move on to something else... strange that.

[marcielle]

A few classes that were missed:

Rogue : Need something done BESIDES killing? Need a trap removed? Need a trap SET? Want something shiny but dont have the gold for it? Rogue's your man(or woman:smallwink:). Rogues are what we call 'skillmonkeys' they get a lot of skill points and good class skills. Try to capitalize on them since you aren't that sturdy in combat.

Cleric : Very much like wizard. Trades vesatility for some melee power. Also book-keeping nightmare.

Psionic classes(from the SRD): Don't try these unless you play videogames and are familiar with the MP system. If you ARE however, a Psion has all the power of a wizard with a MUCH easier system. Basically PP=MP. Personally, I found this system MUCH easier than 'arcane' magic, but then again, that might just be me.

Sorceror : Ahhh. The good old beginer's caster. Just use whicever of your spells you feel like till you run outta steam. Less versatile than clerics and wizards but SO MUCH EASIER.

Ranger : The best(IMHO) core scout. Skills, melee ability and minor spellcasting(like druid but weaker), they are considered a good 'solo' class. Being able to do a bit of everything, the can act on their own more effectively than most non-full magic classes and are less likely to die in a heartbeat. They can be built to shore up weak points in the group but in exchange, they aren't better at any ONE thing.

p.s. In case you don't know yet, 'dipping' is the act of taking a 2nd class(multiclassing) for only a few levels in order to cherry pick class abilities(a lot of good ones come early). 'Core' means ONLY what is mentioned in the SRD, Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's guide.

[Arbane]

Remember all the things in other types of games you WANTED to do but were limited by the game's design? In D&D, YOU CAN DO THEM ALL.

This is sadly untrue. D&D puts some pretty ironclad limits on what characters can do.

[Redshirt Army]

Stuff about how hard D&D is.

I really think you're overstating the complexity of the system - learning how to play D&D is not some kind of logistical nightmare, and I had very few issues in my first game. Now, of course it's harder to learn all the various systems scattered around the splatbooks (Books other than the Players Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Masters Guide.), and it takes time to learn how to make particularly powerful characters - but just learning the core rules is neither difficult nor tedious (my first character remains one of my favorites).

EDIT:


This is sadly untrue. D&D puts some pretty ironclad limits on what characters can do.

He's talking about stuff like negotiating with the BBEG (or joining him), swinging on the chandelier above the room, randomly running off to another continent, or combining items or magic in inventive ways (Using Ray of Frost on water can get you ice cubes!).

[DitzKrieg]

I'll Pregen a L1L3 Party for you by this time tomorrow

That would be wonderful! I'm thinking I will set up a short game using the "A Dark and Stormy Night" adventure (seems pretty straightforward). That way I can help the other people with all the basics which I've been brushing up on.

[Honest Tiefling]

As for using another system, my advice is to pick one RPG. Different RPGs (And really, 4e and 3.5e are radically different in some regards) have different strengths and weaknesses. Pick one that interests you and you have the books for. Switching between RPGs is a headache on its own and can lead to very weird issues. (What do you mean I can't have an Unaligned paladin? What is this neutral business?)

Either way, good luck and sorry to not post a link to the SRD. The ability to google the books is really nice. Avoid the variant rules for now is my advice.

Also, if people are spellcasters, try to have them write down their spells. Writing helps memory for some and then they have a handy dandy record to use instead of your books.

[Ozreth]

Learn how to attack and cast spells, have somebody read a free adventure. Start running the game. Start dropping more and more rules into the game as you become familiar with them. That's it really.

[Morghen]

If you're brand-new to pencil-and-paper RPGs, for the love of Gygax start at level 1.

There is no better teacher than playing at low levels. None.

[Divide by Zero]

If you're brand-new to pencil-and-paper RPGs, for the love of Gygax start at level 1.

There is no better teacher than playing at low levels. None.

No, don't play at level 1. Level 1 characters have a tendency to die suddenly from random crits, which can easily frustrate new players. I prefer level 3 as a starting point.

[Honest Tiefling]

Consider starting at level one, and your group is in town for a fair. They can do non-fatal challenges as they get used to skill checks, attack rolls, ability checks and AC. And not die horribly in the process.

[Divide by Zero]

Consider starting at level one, and your group is in town for a fair. They can do non-fatal challenges as they get used to skill checks, attack rolls, ability checks and AC. And not die horribly in the process.

Hmm, that's a pretty good idea. Something like the NWN2 main campaign intro?

[Honest Tiefling]

Like that, including the barefist fighting for basic combat. If non-lethal damage is too much, people might instead try to wrestle farm animals, or do lots of damage to combat dummies to make impressive splatters. If it sounds silly, the town does this after they get drunk.

A magic show also works to help any mages along. Consider something nice for rogues, like balancing. Clerics will probably not need the help as someone is liable to get hurt.

I sorta stole this idea from Oakspar77777, however, NWN2 works well as a tutorial.

[only1doug]

I'm working on the Sorcerer Bard and Cleric, if anyone wants to help with the other classes, Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8) Average Hitpoints for 2nd and 3rd level.

2700gp

Human Sorcerer
Not Completed

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 15
HP: 15
AC: 13
BAB +1
Fort +2
Ref +3
Will +3
Run
Eschew Materials
Toughness

Skills:
Concentration +8
Spellcraft +8
Knowledge (Arcana) +8
Bluff +9

Equipment:2 sets of Ordinary clothes or mages robes
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Cutlery set
Belt Knife (+0 to hit, 1d4-1 damage)
Pewter Mug
tin Plate and Bowl
5 days Trail Rations
5 waterskins
Belt Pouch containing: 2Gp, 12 Sp, 5 Cp

Bracers of Armour +1
Wand of Magic Missile (1 missile, 1d4+1 damage) 50 charges remaining
Hand of the Mage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handoftheMage)

spells / day
L0 6
1 Ray of Frost (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rayOfFrost.htm)
2 Read Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/readMagic.htm)
3 Disrupt Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptUndead.htm)
4 Acid Splash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidSplash.htm)
5 Detect magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm)

L1 6
1 Sleep (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sleep.htm)
2 Magic Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm)
3 Burning Hands (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/burningHands.htm)

Bat Familiar


Gnome Bard
Not Completed

Str 6
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 15
HP: 19
AC: 18
BAB +2
Fort +2
Ref +5
Will +3
Eschew Materials
Weapon Finesse

Skills:
Perform (Oratory or Sing or Instrument of choice) +9
Concentration +9
Spellcraft +9
Sleight of Hand +9
Knowledge History +8
Hide +9
Move Silently +9
Bardic Knowledge +4
Bardic Knowledge

A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.
DC Type of Knowledge
10 Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population.
20 Uncommon but available, known by only a few people legends.


Equipment
1 set of Ordinary clothes
2 sets of Padded Armour (for wearing under Chain shirt)
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Cutlery set
Belt Knife (+4 to hit, 1d3-2 damage)
Pewter Mug
tin Plate and Bowl
5 days Trail Rations
5 waterskins
Belt Pouch containing: 3Gp, 4 Sp, 7 Cp

Masterwork Rapier (+4 to hit, 1d4-2 damage)
+1 Chain Shirt
Wand of Cure Light wounds (heals 1d8+1) 50 charges remaining
Wand of Light 13 charges remaining

spells / day
L0 3
1 Detect magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm)
2 Prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)
3 Ghost sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm)
4 Message (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/message.htm)
5 Mage Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageHand.htm)
6 Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/light.htm)

L1 2
1 Hideous Laughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideousLaughter.htm)
2 Cure Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWounds.htm)
3 Grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm)

Bardic Music
Bardic Music

General
Once per day per bard level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum bard level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill to qualify; if a bard does not have the required number of ranks in at least one Perform skill, he does not gain the bardic music ability until he acquires the needed ranks.

Activating
Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word. Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit.

Countersong (Su)

A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). Each round of the countersong, he makes a Perform check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard’s Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard’s Perform check result for the save. Countersong has no effect against effects that don’t allow saves. The bard may keep up the countersong for 10 rounds.

Fascinate (Sp)

A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and able to pay attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three levels a bard attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability.

To use the ability, a bard makes a Perform check. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the bard cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the song, taking no other actions, for as long as the bard continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per bard level). While fascinated, a target takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result.

Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.

Inspire Courage (Su)

A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.
Inspire Competence (Su)

A bard of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.

The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bard’s music. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 2 minutes. A bard can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.


Halfling Cleric
Not Completed

Str 11
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 14
HP: 23
AC: 17
BAB +2
Fort +4
Ref +2
Will +5
Extra Turning
Toughness

Skills:
Concentration +2
Knowledge (religion) +4

Equipment:
1 set of Ordinary clothes
2 sets of Padded Armour (for wearing under full plate)
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Cutlery set
Belt Knife (+2 to hit, 1d3 damage)
Pewter Mug
tin Plate and Bowl
5 days Trail Rations
5 waterskins
Belt Pouch containing: 1Gp, 3 Sp, 9 Cp

+1 Chain Shirt
MW Heavy Mace (+2 to hit, 1d6 damage)
Wand of Cure Light wounds (heals 1d8+1) 7 charges remaining
Wand of Cure Light wounds (heals 1d8+1) 50 charges remaining


Domains: Strength, Sun

spells / day
L0 Cure Minor Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureMinorWounds.htm)
1 Purify Food and Drink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/purifyFoodAndDrink.htm)
2 Guidance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/guidance.htm)
3 Detect magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm)
4 Create Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm)

L1 Cure Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWounds.htm)
1 Hide From Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideFromUndead.htm)
2 Sanctuary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sanctuary.htm)
3 Remove Fear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeFear.htm)
D Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm)

L2 Cure Moderate Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureModerateWounds.htm)
1 Delay Poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/delayPoison.htm)
2 Lesser Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm)
D Bulls Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrength.htm)

Turn Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) : 9/day of which 1/day can be a greater turning

Table: D20 roll for Turning Undead
Result Most Powerful Undead Affected
(Maximum Hit Dice)

1 No Undead Turned
2—4 1 HD Undead
5—7 2 HD Undead
8—10 3 HD Undead
11—13 4 HD Undead
14—16 5 HD Undead
17—19 6 HD Undead
20 7 HD Undead

2d6 +5 HD turned

Half orc? Barbarian
Details needed
Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8)

Elven? Rogue
Details needed
Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8)

Dwarven? Ranger
Details needed
Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8)

[marcielle]

Dwarven... Ranger...
Pleeeease post the backstories for these guys, I NEED to hear them.:smallbiggrin:

Also, now that you guys have made your first characters, let me welcome you, not just to the GiantitP, but to D&d.
:smallsmile:

OK. Some building advice.
1. Specialise. - Unless you are a CoDzilla or a God, you probably won't be able to do EVERYTHING well at the same time. Discuss you're builds with each other and pick specialties you like(killers kill, sneakers sneak and diplomancers wreak havoc). It's ok to have overlap because there's always a possibility the member you need is out of commision. Just make sure all your bases are covered.

2. Personalities - Some build with personalities already in mind, and some personalities just happen as you play. A lot of fun can come from BEING your character and doing things you yourself would NEVER do in said situation. Remember that you are making an actual CHARACTER, not some videogame avatar.

3. Spot and search - ALWAYS have people in the party with decent ranks in these skills. Prevents a lot of nasty surprises. Bard can get listen which can often be substituted for spot AND he can use it to tune his instrument.

4. Swim - anyone not in heavy armor should have a bit. You won't need it often but when you DO need it it'll totally be worth the ranks.

5. Alignments - Just guidelines as far as I'm concerned. Except paladins being good and clerics following their gods, I am of the view alignments are just to show which team you are on. Act how you want to.

Last but not least, don't be a jerk:smallwink:

p.s. Tougness is not generally useful. Ever. May I sugest Improved Initiative for the sorceror. Getting away before the damage is dealt is generally better than taking a bit more damage.

[only1doug]

Dwarven... Ranger...
Pleeeease post the backstories for these guys, I NEED to hear them.:smallbiggrin:

Heh, I thought I'd create something less than usual (although the Cleric quintet features a dwarven druid and I believe races of stone may have a Dwarven ranger prestige class.)


Also, now that you guys have made your first characters, let me welcome you, not just to the GiantitP, but to D&d.
:smallsmile:

Umm, I'm not in his group, I'm pregenerating simple characters for them, with explanations of what they can do.


OK. Some building advice.
1. Specialise. - Unless you are a CoDzilla or a God, you probably won't be able to do EVERYTHING well at the same time. Discuss you're builds with each other and pick specialties you like(killers kill, sneakers sneak and diplomancers wreak havoc). It's ok to have overlap because there's always a possibility the member you need is out of commision. Just make sure all your bases are covered.

2. Personalities - Some build with personalities already in mind, and some personalities just happen as you play. A lot of fun can come from BEING your character and doing things you yourself would NEVER do in said situation. Remember that you are making an actual CHARACTER, not some videogame avatar.

3. Spot and search - ALWAYS have people in the party with decent ranks in these skills. Prevents a lot of nasty surprises. Bard can get listen which can often be substituted for spot AND he can use it to tune his instrument.

4. Swim - anyone not in heavy armor should have a bit. You won't need it often but when you DO need it it'll totally be worth the ranks.

5. Alignments - Just guidelines as far as I'm concerned. Except paladins being good and clerics following their gods, I am of the view alignments are just to show which team you are on. Act how you want to.

Last but not least, don't be a jerk:smallwink:

Yeah, all good, once they create their own characters...

[marcielle]

Oh lol . Now I remember your thread. I could probably build the Rouge and Barb. Never even seen a ranger in play though. I'll have something up in the morning.

[only1doug]

That would be wonderful! I'm thinking I will set up a short game using the "A Dark and Stormy Night" adventure (seems pretty straightforward). That way I can help the other people with all the basics which I've been brushing up on.

I've got the first 3 characters mostly sorted out but still need to write suggested tactics for them. I'll also re-read through Dark and stormy as I think that the party of 6 3rd level characters will find it too easy (so i'll suggest where you should bump up the numbers).

[Flickerdart]

Toughness? Run? I certainly hope you're doing this to them on purpose.

[only1doug]

Toughness? Run? I certainly hope you're doing this to them on purpose.

these characters are for a one off, without advancing levels, without too many different options to choose from.

I'm also hoping for some balance so I don't want the casters to overpower the melee.

Please feel free to offer alternatives (from core) that fit this concept.

[Arbane]

He's talking about stuff like negotiating with the BBEG (or joining him), swinging on the chandelier above the room, randomly running off to another continent, or combining items or magic in inventive ways (Using Ray of Frost on water can get you ice cubes!).

Oh, right, that's certainly true. Players can (and should) come up with ideas that a game-programmer (or the DM) would never think of in a million years. Sometimes, they might even work.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

People tend to exaggerate the imbalances between the classes. Sure, they're there, but for less inexperienced players, they're not going to be building characters that are optimized enough for it to be all the obvious. I've played as or in a group with pretty much every core class, and they're all able to contribute something. Play what you like, and if you're interested in what's most powerful, you'll figure it out along the way.

[Flickerdart]

these characters are for a one off, without advancing levels, without too many different options to choose from.

I'm also hoping for some balance so I don't want the casters to overpower the melee.

Please feel free to offer alternatives (from core) that fit this concept.
Improved Initiative. Combat Casting. IUS + Deflect Arrows or Improved Grapple (for getting out of grapples). Precise Shot for rays or their crossbows. Rapid Reload so that Heavy Crossbow becomes useful. Spell Focus. Any of these are better than Eschew Materials (a feat replaced by a cheap as free item), Run (a feat that accomplishes nothing), Toughness (it's Toughness) or Extra Turning (because the Cleric is going to need to turn nine times per day?). You don't want them thinking that crappy feats like that should ever be taken.

[Divide by Zero]

People tend to exaggerate the imbalances between the classes. Sure, they're there, but for less inexperienced players, they're not going to be building characters that are optimized enough for it to be all the obvious. I've played as or in a group with pretty much every core class, and they're all able to contribute something. Play what you like, and if you're interested in what's most powerful, you'll figure it out along the way.

Except for druids. I've seen and heard plenty of instances of new players breaking druids by accident.

[only1doug]

Improved Initiative. I have never understood while people like this, 4 points of difference over a 20 point spread on something that is only relevent once / combat. Wasted feat in most builds


Combat Casting. useful for the cleric or bard, the wizard should be keeping away from combat or he will die.


IUS + Deflect Arrows sure....


Improved Grapple (for getting out of grapples). on str 6 or 8 characters, they will lose grapples if they get into them... (and the melee component of the party will then murder the grappler).


Precise Shot for rays or their crossbows. No crossbows or ray spells given to these 1 shot characters.


Rapid Reload so that Heavy Crossbow becomes useful. yup, they still don't have one.


Spell Focus. +1 DC could be useful sometimes yes.


Any of these are better than Eschew Materials (a feat replaced by a cheap as free item), Run (a feat that accomplishes nothing), Toughness (it's Toughness) or Extra Turning (because the Cleric is going to need to turn nine times per day?). You don't want them thinking that crappy feats like that should ever be taken.

Eschew Materials: Keeping the game as simple as possible, 1 less thing to worry about. I have known GMs who want to track component useage, It does sometimes become an issue.

Run: If the sorcerer gets chased (13AC, 15 Hp) he needs to be able to escape.

Toughness: its 3 extra hitpoints on characters for a one shot mission.

Extra Turning: The cleric won't be afraid of "wasting a use" on minor undead if he encounters any.

Would I build an ongoing character this way? No.

Do I think that they are awful choices for a 1 shot mission to teach new players simplified aspects of the game? Yes, nothing overcomplicated.

[Pigkappa]

I have never understood while people like this, 4 points of difference over a 20 point spread on something that is only relevent once / combat. Wasted feat in most builds


In extremely-optimized builds, your character can likely win the encounter in a round. So having +4 initiative means you're 20% more likely to win the encounter before the opponent acts. This is the idea, I think.


Eschew Materials: Keeping the game as simple as possible, 1 less thing to worry about. I have known GMs who want to track component useage, It does sometimes become an issue.


If you follow the rules from the PHB, you can buy a 5gp item with infinite amounts of components. Writing "spell pouch" in the equipment isn't really so complicated.

[Flickerdart]

I have never understood while people like this, 4 points of difference over a 20 point spread on something that is only relevent once / combat. Wasted feat in most builds

useful for the cleric or bard, the wizard should be keeping away from combat or he will die.

sure....

on str 6 or 8 characters, they will lose grapples if they get into them... (and the melee component of the party will then murder the grappler).

No crossbows or ray spells given to these 1 shot characters.

yup, they still don't have one.

+1 DC could be useful sometimes yes.



Eschew Materials: Keeping the game as simple as possible, 1 less thing to worry about. I have known GMs who want to track component useage, It does sometimes become an issue.

Run: If the sorcerer gets chased (13AC, 15 Hp) he needs to be able to escape.

Toughness: its 3 extra hitpoints on characters for a one shot mission.

Extra Turning: The cleric won't be afraid of "wasting a use" on minor undead if he encounters any.

Would I build an ongoing character this way? No.

Do I think that they are awful choices for a 1 shot mission to teach new players simplified aspects of the game? Yes, nothing overcomplicated.
Improved Initiative means you have a 20% chance of getting one entire turn more than your enemy. That means an extra spell, an extra full attack, an extra potion, whatever it is you do, you get more of. And unlike most feats that give flat bonuses, Initiative doesn't scale - that 20% will always be with you. On the other hand...

Eschew Materials: This feat comes in a pouch for a handful of gold coins. Worried about pickpockets? Buy ten.

Run: "If". In all my D&D experience, "I need to run away like a little girl so often that I waste one of the three feats I have on it" has never happened...not to mention you can run without Run.

Extra Turning: Again, "if". Do you really expect more than five Undead encounters in one day to happen even once, never mind constantly? Unless they're going into an all-Undead all the time campaign, that's incredibly unlikely, and even if they are, after the first few times they have to figure out Turning, they're gonna stop doing it because it's honestly worse than grapple.

[only1doug]

Improved Initiative means you have a 20% chance of getting one entire turn more than your enemy. That means an extra spell, an extra full attack, an extra potion, whatever it is you do, you get more of. And unlike most feats that give flat bonuses, Initiative doesn't scale - that 20% will always be with you. On the other hand...

Ive known other people with that viewpoint, but really who goes first at the beginning of a combat only matters in uber-optimised play. I've played with people who realised half way through a game how little use it actually is.


Eschew Materials: This feat comes in a pouch for a handful of gold coins. Worried about pickpockets? Buy ten.
there aren't any situations in the adventure the GM is planning to run that would penalise the lack of Eschew materials. I was building the characters as minimal as possible.


Run: "If". In all my D&D experience, "I need to run away like a little girl so often that I waste one of the three feats I have on it" has never happened...not to mention you can run without Run.
Fine. I was searching for an additional feat to give the character after I realised I was going to make him human. I thought it was a fairly simple choice.



Extra Turning: Again, "if". Do you really expect more than five Undead encounters in one day to happen even once, never mind constantly? Unless they're going into an all-Undead all the time campaign, that's incredibly unlikely, and even if they are, after the first few times they have to figure out Turning, they're gonna stop doing it because it's honestly worse than grapple.
Did you read the character specific table? roll a d20, cross-reference the result on one table (with no addition or subtraction) to figure out the most powerful undead that can be Affected, roll 2d6+5 and turn that many undead.

Yes turn Undead is complicated but it can be vastly simplified by doing all the working out in advance and writing a table for the specific character (which I have done and will expand to give more detail).


Please build your own version of simple to use characters for this one shot adventure.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Ive known other people with that viewpoint, but really who goes first at the beginning of a combat only matters in uber-optimised play. I've played with people who realised half way through a game how little use it actually is.

On the contrary, it's almost always useful, and is one of the few feats that benefits everybody. My group is far from optimized, and we've had plenty of battles where different initiative would have changed the result of the game. I could give an example, if you want.



there aren't any situations in the adventure the GM is planning to run that would penalise the lack of Eschew materials. I was building the characters as minimal as possible.

As useful as eschew materials is, a spell component pouch is equally so, and it costs 5 gp out of however many you get instead of 1 out of (roughly) 7 feats. If you only get 35 gp the entire game, then they're about equal.


Please build your own version of simple to use characters for this one shot adventure.


Replace run with improved initiative, or weapon focus, or point blank shot, or... well, I don't know the parameters of the build. Class, stat generation? I'll do it gladly.

[only1doug]

On the contrary, it's almost always useful, and is one of the few feats that benefits everybody. My group is far from optimized, and we've had plenty of battles where different initiative would have changed the result of the game. I could give an example, if you want.

Maybe its just my groups where people tend to either roll really high or really low for initiative.



As useful as eschew materials is, a spell component pouch is equally so, and it costs 5 gp out of however many you get instead of 1 out of (roughly) 7 feats. If you only get 35 gp the entire game, then they're about equal.






Replace run with improved initiative, or weapon focus, or point blank shot, or... well, I don't know the parameters of the build. Class, stat generation? I'll do it gladly.


Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8) Average Hitpoints for 2nd and 3rd level.

2700 gp

Core only.

Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger 1 of each.

Level 3.

As simple as possible for handing to Players who have never played before.

For a 1 shot adventure so that they get a feel for the game without being too confused.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Core only.

Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger 1 of each.

Level 3.

As simple as possible for handing to Players who have never played before.

For a 1 shot adventure so that they get a feel for the game without being too confused.

I hope you don't mind that I only did Sorcerer, but I do have characters to make for games I plan on playing: here it is (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=314824).

[only1doug]

I hope you don't mind that I only did Sorcerer, but I do have characters to make for games I plan on playing: here it is (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=314824).

Spend another 870 Gp to take you to 2700? (perhaps a wand and some standard adventuring gear?)

MW heavy crossbow 350
Cloak 1000
Elixirs 400
Scroll 75
spell components 5



otherwise perfectly adequate build.

[marcielle]

Doug has a point. Here goes long term optimization out the window.:smalltongue:
Elven Rouge
Your sticky fingers and untrustworthy ways have caused you to be ostracised from the elven community. You've had to make a living taking what you need, living on the road. You joined a group of bandits but a close brush with a band of clerics and paladins left you the only survivor. It DID teach you something important however. Adventurers kill people and take their stuff AND are liked for it. You hopped on the first band that came by and despite initial misgivings, it's more or less worked out.
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 11
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 8
HP: 13
AC: 15
BAB +1
Fort +2
Ref +6
Will +1


Skills:
Disable device +11
Gather Information +3
Hide +13
Jump +10
Knowledge(local) +9
Move Silently +13
Open lock +11
Slight of Hand +9
Spot +8
Tumble +11

Stealthy

Equipment:
+1 Dagger(stolen off his former boss' corpse) +1 to Hit, 1d4+1 damage
Shortbow and arrows
Leather shirt +2 to AC
Traveler's outfit
Peasant's outfit(because sometimes it pays not to look like an adventurer)
Materwork Tools - Thieves tools, Camocloak(hiding), Padded boots(moving silently),guidebook(local knowledge)
100 Gp

Playing tips:
1. You are a stelf elf. You're stealth is a weapon in itself. When the fight starts, if you are aware of your opponents and they are'nt aware of you, you get a surprise round Hide whenever you don't NEED to be seen. Even if your team is in plain sight so long as you are completely hidden, you should be able to get the drop on the enemy.

2. Skills, you has them.

3. Flanking. Unless using facing rules, you need another teammate around your enemy to make use of your Sneak Attack.

4. Hey Diddle-diddle, right down the middle. DO NOT DO THIS. Getting surrounded is really bad for you.

5. You cannot sneak attack ZOMGies, Cornstructs, Oooozes or P(l)ants. Just keep your distance and arrow 'em.

[The Dark Fiddler]

+1 Keen Dagger

You know that costs 8000 gp, right? :smallconfused:

[marcielle]

Sorry, I forgot we have a homerule waiving the +1 required to get magic weapon abilities(Our DM seems to like giving us nice stuff in exchange for things like random kraken atomic families attacking us at levels 4-6). Got too use to that. My bad:smalltongue: Weapon and crime against grammar fixed.

[DitzKrieg]

Thanks for all the thought you guys are putting into this!

I was wondering if someone could clarify how casting spells works? I've read over the section in the srd and the phb, however I am still confused.

[LansXero]

Thanks for all the thought you guys are putting into this!

I was wondering if someone could clarify how casting spells works? I've read over the section in the srd and the phb, however I am still confused.

Prepared:

You select which of the spells you know you "prepare" every day (one per slot, if you want to use any more than once you prepare as many copies as you want), then whenever you want to use one you declare that, resolve outcome, scratch it from your prepared list.

Spontaneous:

As above, except you have a list of spells known that doesnt change and only scratch one off your "spells per day" for that day.

[DitzKrieg]

Prepared:

You select which of the spells you know you "prepare" every day (one per slot, if you want to use any more than once you prepare as many copies as you want), then whenever you want to use one you declare that, resolve outcome, scratch it from your prepared list.

Spontaneous:

As above, except you have a list of spells known that doesnt change and only scratch one off your "spells per day" for that day.

Okay, I think I get that now. In terms of rolls though how does it work? Do I roll a d20 vs AC as in melee? How does concentration work?

[LansXero]

Okay, I think I get that now. In terms of rolls though how does it work? Do I roll a d20 vs AC as in melee? How does concentration work?

Depends.

Touch spells: roll 1d20+BAB+STR+any other melee attack modifiers vs target Touch AC

Ray /range touch spells: roll 1d20+BAB+DEX+any other ranged attack modifiers vs target Touch AC

Other spells: Roll nothing, target rolls a save as indicated in the spell description.

Concentration checks are used to "cast defensively" when casting in melee and avoid provoking an Attack of Oportunity. DC scales with spell level, I believe. Oh and any damage dealt while casting the spell forces you to check for concentration, DC = dmg, but its not going to come up often.

[Arbane]

Okay, I think I get that now. In terms of rolls though how does it work? Do I roll a d20 vs AC as in melee? How does concentration work?

If a spell doesn't specifically say you have to roll (usually, a 'ranged touch attack' or similar), you don't have to roll to hit. The target may get a saving throw, though.

Concentration (the skill) applies if a spellcaster is trying to cast with an enemy in their face and they don't want to get hit, or if they get hit while casting. Some spells only work while the caster is concentrating - if they get hit, grappled, or otherwise distracted, you need to make a Concentration check to keep it going.

[DitzKrieg]

Ah, now I see. Thanks for clearing that up guys!

[Flickerdart]

Typically, ray spells will require a ranged touch attack, spells with "grasp" or "touch" in their name are usually melee touch attacks, and everything else doesn't need anything. Most spells require a save or an attack roll but not both - the exceptions are generally not worth your time since that's twice as many chances to fail.

[Divide by Zero]

Also note that some spells that affect an area, such as solid fog, don't have any save or attack roll at all. For that reason, such spells tend to be very good.

[DitzKrieg]

Eventually, when I let people make characters, would it be best to use the elite array? Or a point buy? Or just normal 4d6 drop lowest rolls?

[Flickerdart]

Eventually, when I let people make characters, would it be best to use the elite array? Or a point buy? Or just normal 4d6 drop lowest rolls?
Elite Array really sucks. Like, really sucks. You could bump all the odd scores up one and then it'll be fine (16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8) though. Point buy might be a little confusing for new players, but there are tons of calculators available for it. Rolling is a bad idea as it might give them a skewed impression of some classes based on unbalanced rolls.

[DitzKrieg]

I thought elite array was how the game was designed to be played. What is so bad about it?

[Flickerdart]

The game was designed to be played on 28PB, not Elite Array. The problem with it is that odd ability scores are even more useless than they were in 3.0, where the Animal's Stat spells could at least give you an odd bonus. The problem with low PB in general is that it screws over martial classes - a Wizard with 18 INT, 14 CON and DEX and everything else dumped works great, while a Fighter has to spread points more to cover his weak Will save and his awful skill points, and a Paladin or Monk simply cannot function. The Elite Array makes this even worse, since the 15 you get can just as easily be a 14, giving you 2 points essentially for free, or a 16 by taking 2 points from somewhere else. If you do go point buy, remember that higher PB will always help the weaker, more MAD classes.

[LansXero]

I thought elite array was how the game was designed to be played. What is so bad about it?

odd scores are sort of pointless, and it tends to be too weak compared to standard CR apropriate monsters.

Id suggest 4d6 drop lowest 7 times. Makes for a more varied lot, and doesnt screw MAD classes too much. Let them move up to 2 points around after they set their scores, so a concept isnt "ruined" by dice.

[marcielle]

Indeed. My current game is elite array and melee requires HEAVY optimization just not to suck. Do yourselves a favor. NEVER use elite array if you can help it. Also, IIRC, elite array was meant for creation of NPCs. NPCs of equivalent levels to the players are meant to be WEAKER by default.

[DitzKrieg]

You could bump all the odd scores up one and then it'll be fine (16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8) though.

So, would this be a good way to start everyone on equal footing? I want to make sure nobody screws themselves over but also that the PCs don't start out too strong.

[Flickerdart]

So, would this be a good way to start everyone on equal footing? I want to make sure nobody screws themselves over but also that the PCs don't start out too strong.
It's 28PB, so 4 points under usual PB. Won't unbalance anything.