Building a Paladin! Help!

[Rossebay]

So, I'll lay down a list of things I really want with this paladin. They're things I don't plan on changing, so work with me here.

Alignment: LG

Weapon: Scythe

Substitution Levels: Mystic Flame Knight, 4 and 6. (Going to make use of casting ability even if it kills me.)

Feats:
-Sword of the Arcane Order
-Battle Blessing

Also, willing to take two flaws if needed. The campaign is level 10.

Willing to take a few levels in other classes, including ToB.

As far as qualifying for PrC's and Feats goes, DM is allowing SotAO spells to count as Arcane spells. (Means Abjurant Champion and Arcane strike are in, as well as reserve feats, if any of you think it's a good idea.)

And, as a side note, I'm not playing Lawful Stupid, I'm playing a real kind of Lawful Good.

[Elric VIII]

Ruby Knight Vindicator has some excellent synergy with Battle Blessing, however you have some conflict of dieties with SotAO, so you might want to ask your DM about a RKV variant for another god.

You can also qualify for it with Martial Study/Stance, if you don't want to lose more CL to an initiator class.

You can gain 2 extra uses of your Spellshatter ability with the feat Extra Divine Power from Dragon 343.



Just to be contrary, I have to suggest an alternative to what you said you do not want to change: After Paladin 6, you can start taking levels in Suel Arcanamach for an additional ability like Spellshatter, arcane casting up to 5th level (with lower ASF), and med BAB.

I just wanted you to be aware of this, in case the reason you wanted SotAO was just for arcane spell access without being squishy from Wizard levels.

[Rossebay]

RKV almost looked enticing, but I'd need Turn/Rebuke for the entire thing to work, and I've given that up for extra spells per day.
The way things will be working, I get 3 first level spells and 3 second level spells per day, and since they can be Sorc/Wizard spells, I'd like to keep CL as high as possible. That said, I'm willing to waver slightly.
I was considering a level of Crusader or Warblade (need to look into those more).

[Lord.Sorasen]

You should also take mystic fire knight 5. Because you don't lose anything for taking mystic fire knight 5. It's just extra stuff.

If you want ruby knight, a single dip in cleric is really great. You'll get turn undead, and you'll get a couple domains. Some domain powers are awesome.

Keep in mind if you do anything with your special mount that buffs applied to you can also be applied to horse. Enlarge person can definitely be a thing with your access to wizard spells.

Do you have Book of Exalted Deeds? Take a look at sanctified spells. Diamond dust is a really cool spell. Celestial aspect can give you and your mount wings. Or horns for extra charging damage. The nice thing is that any prepared caster has access to sanctified spells. Ask your dm if your paladin can cast them as wizard spells, in case you want to key them off int.

I was almost certain there was a feat that allowed paladins to use cha for spellcasting, or wisdom for other paladin abilities, or intelligence for paladin abilities... I don't know, I can't find it. But if there is one, it could allow you to put more points into int, for wizardry.

[Person_Man]

Your most powerful class feature is actually your Special Mount. It makes you far more mobile, provides an extra target/meat shield, can double your damage on a charge with a lance (and be multiplied further with feats and magic items), and can be vastly improved by Leadership or prestige classes. Suggestions:

If possible, ask if you can play the Pathfinder Paladin (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) in place of the normal Paladin. It's vastly better.

From Smite to Song feat: Adds Perform to your class list, and allows you to burn Smite Evil attempts to Inspire Courage. While this may seem like a very minor thing, Inspire Courage can be ridiculously optimized with Dragonfire Inspiration and Words of Creation, and it's not that hard to get extra Smite uses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492). And even if you only spend a modest amount on a few Inspire boosting magic items and/or spells, having a +4ish bonus to-hit for your entire party when needed is a fairly good deal for 1 feat. Champions of Valor pg 29.

Rhino's Rush (Pal 2): Immediate Action spell. Multiplies damage on a Charge. Spell Compendium.

[Prime32]

I was almost certain there was a feat that allowed paladins to use cha for spellcasting, or wisdom for other paladin abilities, or intelligence for paladin abilities... I don't know, I can't find it. But if there is one, it could allow you to put more points into int, for wizardry.Wis-based paladin is Serenity, from Dragon Compendium. Apart from Str/Con for combat, a SotAO paladin needs Wis for normal spells, Int for wizard spells, and Cha for Smite/Divine Grace. You can compensate by using spells which don't require saves, though.

Another reason PF paladin is cool - their spells are Cha-based.


From Smite to Song feat: Adds Perform to your class list, and allows you to burn Smite Evil attempts to Inspire Courage. While this may seem like a very minor thing, Inspire Courage can be ridiculously optimized with Dragonfire Inspiration and Words of Creation, and it's not that hard to get extra Smite uses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492). And even if you only spend a modest amount on a few Inspire boosting magic items and/or spells, having a +4ish bonus to-hit for your entire party when needed is a fairly good deal for 1 feat. Champions of Valor pg 29.There are better routes to this.

Bard 1/Paladin 19
Feats: Devoted PerformerCAdv (Paladin/bard levels stack for bardic music and smite evil uses), Initiate of MililCoV (More spells, cleric/paladin/bard levels stack for which music abilities you get)

I'd say take a monk level and go Ascetic Knight too, but if you're using a scythe there doesn't seem like much point. Then there's the Harmonious Knight substitution levels, which swap detect evil for Inspire Courage, and uses of remove disease for Inspire Competence/Greatness (the latter two aren't worth giving up Mystic Fire Knight's dispel).

If music doesn't fit your theme, use Perform (oratory).

[Keld Denar]

Doesn't MFK4 make you give up Turn Undead? If so, this is patently a BAD IDEA. Turn Undead is one of the paladin's most useful features. It powers a whole host of [Divine] and devotion feats, most of which are really rather strong. Whatever you get, it probably isn't worth that loss.

[Rossebay]

Doesn't MFK4 make you give up Turn Undead? If so, this is patently a BAD IDEA. Turn Undead is one of the paladin's most useful features. It powers a whole host of [Divine] and devotion feats, most of which are really rather strong. Whatever you get, it probably isn't worth that loss.

I almost want to think that, but the extra spells I'll be getting will allow me to cast enough times per day to make up for the lost Divine feats. Sure, they're nice buffs and all... But with Battle Blessing, any paladin spells I cast (including my Sorc/Wizard spells from SotAO) are quickened automatically. This will let me buff myself rapidly in combat while still preforming as an effective front-line combatant.


As far as the Special Mount goes, if I take one it will be changed to a Drakkensteed. I was also strongly considering Charging Smite, and just taking Leadership to get a steed. Probably a Dragonelle, they seem to be powerful enough. Thoughts on the mount?


Something else I'd like to add!

My Ability Scores are as follows (I cannot change them from here):
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 16

[Prime32]

As far as the Special Mount goes, if I take one it will be changed to a Drakkensteed. I was also strongly considering Charging Smite, and just taking Leadership to get a steed. Probably a Dragonelle, they seem to be powerful enough. Thoughts on the mount?Note that you can apply your special mount abilities to a cohort for +2 LA. And if you're going for a draconic mount, Dragon Cohort is a version of Leadership lets you ignore 3 points of LA (but doesn't grant followers).

Why aren't you taking the lv5 Mystic Fire Knight level, by the way?

[Rossebay]

Note that you can apply your special mount abilities to a cohort for +2 LA. And if you're going for a draconic mount, Dragon Cohort is a version of Leadership lets you ignore 3 points of LA (but doesn't grant followers).

Why aren't you taking the lv5 Mystic Fire Knight level, by the way?

I hadn't noticed it was there. I am taking that now, thanks. (MFK5)

As far as the dragon cohort thing goes, I can't ride any of the dragons on the list at this point, so taking a dragon would be a bit silly. The drakkensteed has nice ability scores and with additional hit dice will be a decent companion, so I'll stick with that. Charging smite is nice and all, but now that I look at it, the special mount is much better.

I'm also taking Smite to Song, so don't worry too much about smiting. This character is supposed to be a party leader of sorts, and a leader of a group of Freedom Fighters, so I'm more concerned with buffing my allies.
On the other hand, the rest of the party is squishy, so my character needs to be sturdy.
Finally, I want to capitalize on the wizard spellcasting as much as possible.

[Prime32]

I'm also taking Smite to Song, so don't worry too much about smiting. This character is supposed to be a party leader of sorts, and a leader of a group of Freedom Fighters, so I'm more concerned with buffing my allies.
On the other hand, the rest of the party is squishy, so my character needs to be sturdy.
Finally, I want to capitalize on the wizard spellcasting as much as possibleI'd recommend making your race Dragonborn warforged for immunities then. Dragonborn mongrelfolk also works for high Con, and if your DM allows neither for some reason then try a Silverbrow human.

A warforged who takes the Adamantine Body feat at lv1 is pretty durable, qualifies for a paladin RSL that grants immunity to stunning, and can still use Lay on Hands to heal himself. All of these races have the Dragonblood subtype, letting you pick up Draconic Aura and Dragonfire Inspiration for massive buffing.

Going Devoted Performer will get you way more music uses than Smite to Song, and without harming your smite either. There are magic items which let you maintain music more easily, like harmonising weapons.

[Rossebay]

I'd recommend making your race Dragonborn warforged for immunities then. Dragonborn mongrelfolk also works for high Con, and if your DM allows neither for some reason then try a Silverbrow human.

A warforged who takes the Adamantine Body feat at lv1 is pretty durable, qualifies for a paladin RSL that grants immunity to stunning, and can still use Lay on Hands to heal himself. All of these races have the Dragonblood subtype, letting you pick up Draconic Aura and Dragonfire Inspiration for massive buffing.

Going Devoted Performer will get you way more music uses than Smite to Song, and without harming your smite either. There are magic items which let you maintain music more easily, like harmonising weapons.

He's a human, I forgot to mention that. It's something else I'm not allowed to change. :\
It's because I switched characters, so he's letting me make minor changes to my current character.

Harmonizing weapons? Which book?

[Prime32]

He's a human, I forgot to mention that. It's something else I'm not allowed to change. :\So Silverbrow human then (human with a silver dragon somewhere in their ancestry). Trades the bonus skill points for the Dragonblood subtype and (IIRC) a feather fall SLA. Pretty easy to retcon in, since he might not even be aware of it himself.


Harmonizing weapons? Which book?http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/Bard_Inspire_Courage_Optimization

[Rossebay]

Question: Which Draconic Aura should I pick up?

[JaronK]

You know, another idea to consider is Cleric X/PrC Paladin 2 with Holy Mount. That way you'll have all that casting you wanted, and still have Turn Undead and other amazing abilities.

JaronK

[Rossebay]

That way, I don't get my Arcane Casting, Spellbreaker ability, Smite Casters (basically), or any of the other Paladin AFC's.