Forced Alignment Changes

[Groverfield]

I was throwing around the idea in my head of a minor artifact weapon that has a dedicated purpose of switching the alignment of whatever it strikes from evil to good (similar to the helm of alignment switching, except as a weapon, one save to be successful against it for 24 hours.)

3.5 questions:
Do unwielded magic weapons get will saves (I'd think minor artifacts would, but not normal magic weapons,) where would I find a formula for their save bonus?

Is it an evil act to attempt to force redemption with such a weapon, if it's also able to affect creatures?

Would a 1HD (evil) creature die from negative levels if the +1 Unholy sword it was wielding were to become a +1 Holy sword and bestow the temporary negative level? (My instincts would be that they would, or they would get a reflex save to drop it in time, or they would go unconscious and drop it.)

[EDITS]
1:Yes, 1.5:{Found in SRD: Items get 2+1/2CL on all saves}
2:Still under discussion, see later.
3:RAW says they would die, the question is would a 1HD skeleton die from the negative level, being from a positive energy source, one would think it'd bypass their usual immunity to such.

The way I'm thinking about handling the alignment change would be that the subject still has the same goals/intents, but would immediately start feeling remorse for future kills, etc... I'm also thinking that this might only work to reverse previous magical alignment changes as to not make this an iffy subject.

[Alaris]

I was throwing around the idea in my head of a minor artifact weapon that has a dedicated purpose of switching the alignment of whatever it strikes from evil to good (similar to the helm of alignment switching, except as a weapon, one save to be successful against it for 24 hours.)

3.5 questions:
Do unwielded magic weapons get will saves (I'd think minor artifacts would, but not normal magic weapons,) where would I find a formula for their save bonus?

Is it an evil act to attempt to force redemption with such a weapon, if it's also able to affect creatures?

Would a 1HD (evil) creature die from negative levels if the +1 Unholy sword it was wielding were to become a +1 Holy sword and bestow the temporary negative level? (My instincts would be that they would, or they would get a reflex save to drop it in time, or they would go unconscious and drop it.)

First off, I think that would be a major artifact (my opinion). It's something essentially with unlimited charges that you can hit someone with. It's not like the Helm of Opposite Alignment, where you have to force them to wear it.

I believe unwielded MAGIC items do infact get saves. I believe their save bonus is equal to the magical bonus they have (+1, +2, etc), or their wielder's base save bonus, whichever is higher.

I would consider it... yeah, I would consider it an evil, or at least, immoral act to FORCE redemption like that. Yes, you're creating someone good, but you're essentially forcing it.

I would say that an evil creature would die from holding a Holy Weapon, if they had 1 HD, because their Negative Levels = HD = DEATH.

Now, if you want to house rule that, if it suddenly happens, they get a reflex chance to drop the weapon, then I would not say that's out of the question, or unreasonable at all.

[Prime32]

First off, I think that would be a major artifact (my opinion). It's something essentially with unlimited charges that you can hit someone with. It's not like the Helm of Opposite Alignment, where you have to force them to wear it.There's an lv4 spell which turns people evil for a while (morality undone).

[Groverfield]

I would consider it... yeah, I would consider it an evil, or at least, immoral act to FORCE redemption like that. Yes, you're creating someone good, but you're essentially forcing it.

I'd think that it's just as immoral as killing them, sure it's taking away part of their free will. If you read how alignment shifts work, it's sudden and jarring mechanically, but they initially act no different... perhaps if I work it as a progressive will save style mechanic, kinda like suddenly: conscience effect where they have to struggle to stay evil, would that still be as grey? (I'm planning on giving said minor artifact to my group's Dwarven Defender to make him more useful, aside from situational fights)

[Alaris]

There's an lv4 spell which turns people evil for a while (morality undone).

Book or it didn't happen?

[Groverfield]

Book or it didn't happen?

BoVD, I've read the spell, not quite the fluff I'm looking for.

[Alaris]

BoVD, I've read the spell, not quite the fluff I'm looking for.

Vile Darkness? Sounds like it would force Good/Neutral to be Evil, rather than the other way around. Err... yeah, doesn't sound like its good fluff.

But yeah, I'd still consider it a moderate-major artifact (but I run a Low-Medium magic world). It's fairly powerful, AS WRITTEN, but I think it is an interesting idea.

[Groverfield]

Perhaps moderate, definitely not major. It's mid to mid-high magic in the world, and there's two to five major artifacts, none of which can be used as they're more or less entire rooms or the such: Gargantuan/Colossal statue, an entire throneroom, etc.

I'm also going to take it away after it's served its purpose, with either "It needs to recharge at its resting place," or "It doesn't get special bonuses derived from special purpose against next stage enemies, take this better weapon" kind of thing. Probably going to have the weapon be +2 or +3 Warhammer with that special ability.

[King Atticus]

I would think forcing a living being to switch alignments an evil action. It definitely feels like something only bad guys would do.

But as far as turning items or weapons I'd say take the ball and run with it.
No soul = No moral conundrum. Plus, yes the neg level on the 1HD wielder would make them pop like an over-ripe tomato.

[erikun]

Do unwielded magic weapons get will saves (I'd think minor artifacts would, but not normal magic weapons,) where would I find a formula for their save bonus?
Magic items get a save of 2 + one-half its caster level (round down) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#damagingMagicItems) for Fortitide, Reflex, and Will saves.


Is it an evil act to attempt to force redemption with such a weapon, if it's also able to affect creatures?
It would be no more evil than sticking an Helm on their head, or casting a spell that forces an alignment change. (D&D would say no.)

[Chilingsworth]

You could try making the effect similiar to the curse placed on Angel from Buffy.

[Groverfield]

It's not quite the mechanics about the changes I'm wondering about as much as the moral quandary about magical alignment changes. I'm thinking that it wouldn't be at all immoral due to the minimal influence on the mind that an alignment change has.

Considering the charm spell has almost no moral implications, yet it completely rewrites the target's perception of the caster.

Magical alignment changes do not alter the subject's goals, cultural background, perception of ally versus friend, or amount of free will. All it does is give emotional reinforcement or negative stimuli towards their actions...

Actually that being said, your analogy is quite a good one, Chilingsworth (If what you said was an analogy, and not a mechanics suggestions.)

[Kojiro]

It would be no more evil than sticking an Helm on their head, or casting a spell that forces an alignment change. (D&D would say no.)

Well, considering that there's a good-to-evil spell (which is an [Evil] spell I believe) in the Big Book of Being Evil, but no spell for the opposite, I'd argue that D&D wouldn't say no, or at least that there's no real way to determine it from the books at least.

[erikun]

Well, considering that there's a good-to-evil spell (which is an [Evil] spell I believe) in the Big Book of Being Evil, but no spell for the opposite, I'd argue that D&D wouldn't say no, or at least that there's no real way to determine it from the books at least.
I'm pretty sure that Santify the Wicked (BoED) does exactly that. And is a good spell, to boot.

[Kojiro]

I'm pretty sure that Santify the Wicked (BoED) does exactly that. And is a good spell, to boot.

Oh, huh. Well then. I was wrong; although, BoED also has those torture spells, so honestly I don't consider it the best place to look.